My husband, myself and our children boarded the ferry in Picton when the Mikhail Lermontov was moored up on the other side of the wharf. We departed for Wellington and our kids were asking if the ferry would sink. No, no we assured her. Three or so hours later as we drove off the ferry we listened to the radio telling us the ML had sunk. My father Capt Ian Cook was involved in the background of the inquiry. He was told in no uncertain terms by the Minister of Transport to keep his mouth shut regarding some of his observations. He wrote about the ML in a chapter of his book “Those in Peril”. Yes the title also was used by Wilbur Smith after Dad’s book was published. The title comes from a very old seaman’s hymn that was used in Titanic. It was the hymn sung in the church service in the movie. Oh and Putin was in NZ during the inquiry so perhaps the KGB were concerned about some of the findings.
not sure where the information about Putin comes from... my understanding is, he would have been of a very low ranking nobody at the time, and it is very unlikely he was trusted enough to be given any "delicate job"... plus, he was in a totally different department (East-German affairs, so basically someone who deals with other communists, not with capitalist countries, from what I heard/read, to do that, you needed to prove your worth or have connections... he only really started gaining influence when he became part of the Leningrad Mafia-Government interactions under the Sabtchak clan, which would have been nearly a decade later) but the KGB, they were nearly certainly involved... especially, since it was a poorly guarded secret the ship was also used for underwater surveillance and spying purposes....
The ship was in such a poor shape that it wouldn't be allowed to leave port today ,under the newer rules. My younger Brother was on the Tara's Shevchenko and told of things like gangways rattling and holes rusted through the decks etc etc. By 1986 the USSR was in trouble through inept leadership. Unlike today which sees the Federation in a very healthy fiscal position.
Thank you for response. I trained a horse for capt. Robinson and a few of his mate , not long after sinking . Sinking was never mentioned . But when i asked his mat WHY??. THEY SAID PISSED AZ A MAGGOT. 😅😅😮
..."bush clad walls", "tantalizing what might have been", "agility to save themselves", "buzzed the top of the ridgeline", "spot of bother", "frail, little lifeboats plying between them", "dangling well clear of the vessel", "bit of a broken man", "go freelance", "whispers in barrooms", "his final flourish"... Amazing, effortless way with words; impromptu poetry sprinkled throughout. Again, the best. No one who covers this subject matter can hold a candle. Thanks again!
I used to frequently scuba dive the Sounds and Outer Islands on club dive trips from Wellington, usually a long weekend of diving wrecks and chasing crayfish. We'd use a commercial boat, ex-fishing boat converted for diving and fishing operated by a very, very experienced local and Picton dredge captain. That gap between Cape Jackson and offshore light was a great place to dive for big crays, probably the best, at slack water between tides although very difficult to get the right conditions. It is foul ground, littered with big rocks approaching the surface, nice big holes with big crays but if you stay too long, are struggling with a big, heavy sack and the tides start running then it is either a fast swim back to the boat or you are off in the current on the surface and 55 foot boat with an experienced skipper cannot come in to get you. They wave good-bye, back away and move outside the light to pick you up in the deeper waters of Cook Strait as you float by in the current. I am astonished that the Lermontov was taken through there. Our local skipper treated that area with a lot of respect and he was a keen diver too. He knew where to drop us at slack water but he always moved his 55 footer back, didn't stay where the tides ran.
...I knew we just had to spread the word!! Congrats on the latest video. You guys are the best and the world (...through TH-cam) is waking up to the fact. Thank you for another great episode. Cheers!
I've been through that gap on a 50 foot albacore tuna boat, a third out from the Cape, two thirds in from the rocks, at the turn of high tide, December 1979. Very interesting documentary, thank you.
Been through that passage on small ships and I can testify there is not enough water for a liner to get through let alone deal with the rip that pushes the ship sideways. Insane to even try in anything that draws more than 2.5m or is longer than 40m, and Mikhail Lermontov was many times bigger than that - Jamesion must have known that and even a junior navigator could see that by spending 2 minutes looking at the chart that existed at that time.
Great documentary thank you. I do remember the incident but i had know idea the background behind it. I must admit striking resemblance to Putin in the photo. I'm also having a good chuckle at some of the comments about him.
The New Zealand Pilot was pissed and he took the ship should not have gone as a boast, he stuffed up big time. Four ships sailed through that gap now, and they all come to grief..Der!
Great video, I especially enjoyed hearing that Putin was likely onboard and the conspiracy theories at the end. I think it most likely that is was a mistaken outrageous decision by the pilot. By the way the picture of the HMNZS Taupo was of an earlier world war 2 era Loch class frigate, not the actual 1970’s built Lake Class patrol boat of the same name.
She did beach because there was shingle in the bilges. Also, stopcocks were opened to allow water to flood IN! (Not realised at the time until Captain Fry inspected a sister ship in Auckland some years later) Jamieson kept stum: he had been asked to steer on to the rocks.
Don't know about the whole USSR, but certainly on the Crimean Black-Sea coast, it was very common that a Pilots, who often outranked the commanding captain of a ship, would fully take control of the ship and it's crew... (closely knew a few Pilots in the Karadag region back in the 1980s) not sure weather the tradition was something that effected this accident.
Records sealed 40yrs. Story round picton was that ship was involved in dodgie work ,for Russia. Ive been through gap in boat . Trust me NO ONE would put a ship through. Poor ole Jamie was doin what he was told .😮
I think He (the Pilot) knew those waters like the back of his hand .. he was doing the Job for powerful Western agencies it was a carefully planned covert operation with the right people in place. I think he must have thought She would run aground and sit there.. but as we all know she slipped off the reef and drifted back…luckily the calm night and a good crew saved all but one .. (who may have been part of the op and slipped away into the night ) Waiting dive teams arrived and dived down to her, cut into the radio room and removed all the equipment they wanted…………………
Used to stay with a friend in Port Gore as a kid. We both did correspondence school and I don't recall his name now but I believe the family is still there. Remember him showing me after a storm bits of clothing and suitcases washed up on the beach. Maybe 1989/90. Have been through the same bit of water aboard a 50ft scallop boat with an experienced captain and know of many others but nothing much bigger than what we did
Great stories thanks guys, have you done any about early Pakeha settlers. I have John Logan Campbells "Poemamu" and Jerningham Wakefields "Journeys in New Zealand" early editions and while controversary in context (written in the language and outlook of their time) very good stories, it would be interesting to see you present those stories in your style perhaps discussing that contextual issue.
Just to Re iterate that foreign ships like her need a pilot "local Knowledge" ferrys are exempt as there mastershave different exemptions. Also there were plan's to build two ships that were 220 meters almost 45 meters bigger and they were to go through Tory Channel. I've lived down at Okukari bay when you come in look to the right and it's the big sandy Beach with the Heberley family fishing and yes the Channel can be nasty at times but it's not that bad. The lumintov would have had a pilot used Channel 16 and 19 listened to in and out going traffic the problem was don Jameson took her through cape Jackson cut he should have gone wider or around not showed off.
As gungho as Capt Jamesion's (the pilot) actions may seem, this narrative fails to mention the official survey of this passage issued by rhe NZ hydrographic office that ignores a survey from the 1890s, that shows the hazard that the ML struck. This detail is included in the official report. Current charts continue to ignore that hazard.
A bit of local information... " I live in Wellington and our family had a batch (Holiday home) in Ngakuta Bay (next to Picton) from 1979 (when I was 1) that we travelled to 2-3 times a year (and sailed to from the mid 80's). I know a lot of locals and boaties involved in the Picton, Queen Charlotte & Pelorous Sounds. I have been told of a fairly large submerged fishing rock that was off the point of Shakespeare bay, Where the Michael Lermontub did a detour in and around (not just passing by). That rock is now flattened.. and this happened around the same time the Lermontub went down. The "Rumor" is that Capt' Jamieson took the tub too close, realised he had most likely hit the rock, so piloted the vessel through Jacksons so if any damage was found later, he could point his finger at the charted area, rather than the mistake made earlier... Personally I think that's a bit of a stretch... but the info on the rock came from people we trusted for many fishing spots round the Sounds and D'Urville. As for the depth of the water off the coast... a personal example I had was on the coast between Shakespeare Bay and the Cape... Dad nosed our yacht so close to the cliffs that the rocks were closer than the length of out yacht... and the sounder advised we were 20m above the bottom. Then again Dad once dropped us off in the middle of Umangata Bay and we walked ashore some 150m... and Ngakuta bay, you could row at low tide 120m from the shore with one oar in the mud, the other in 20ft
@@philodonoghue3062 No... When I grew up... I spelt it Batch... and that's the way it remained for 25 years... (doesn't matter how others spelt it)... And if you must be picky.. it's a Crib in the South Island and a Bach in the North... Course I was a Nth Islander in the South so I can get away with it. And really it was a boat shed that we kicked the boat out, folded down the bunks and on a cold day (I have smashed puddles there) you brought the BBQ inside. Luxury!
@@TheButlerNZ I've lived in Canterbury my whole life - my family called ours a bach. Our neighbours called theirs a bach. The term crib seems to be used mostly in Otago and Southland. The Waitaki Valley seems to be about where the two worlds collide - holiday homes there are called either/or depending on whether the owners originate from north or south of there...
@@wheelbarrow01 I feel it's "Bach's" at the top of the South as it was all us Wellingtonians etc that used to cross the ditch for a holiday home... Now we can barely afford our own home and almost everyone else can't even afford that. I REALLY miss the Bach in Ngakuta Bay... I've been everywhere but the Fjords deep south (and Stewart Isle)... and I found Queen Charlotte Sound the greatest place in NZ for a kid.
That's "experts" for ya. No matter the field. Experts are people at the top of their game and run out of people willing to critisize them. The fall is long and harsh. The lesson: Don't reply on experts. They live in a bubble.
Capt Jaminson was an excellent seaman an a very honest person. Being in Picton at the time there is an awful lot that is never published. Russians know a lot more. The vessel put its bow on the beach but captain let it drift off again. All water tight doors were found open ( fact)
Very true - and help from Straits/Sounds shipping was refused. An ex SIS man told me years ago that it was conducting illegal hydrographic surveys: Jamison was instructed to catch the ship in the channel so it could be boarded and inspected. The Lermintov was allowed to drift around the head of the bay so it could dump material overboard-- the reason it refused all assistance. If Putin was on board what a tragic missed opportunity to drown the rat! Prebble sealed the truth for 50 years!
Interesting clip. Weird that in effect no one was ever held to account ( well, the Capt sailed off to Siberia…) Don’t think Putin was ever in Australia / NZ. His only foreign posting 4 years to Dresden , Germany and then scooted back at the dissolution of the USSR and the rest as they say “ is history”
Went to half-moon bay school stewart Island late 70s early 80s this ship moored at half-moon bay and we were allowed to have a school visit on board remember a small empty swimming pool and the ship was quite spartan still was an eventful day being soviet
One and a half football fields long? What the heck is that? Who knows such trivia about a game that has nothing to do with shipping? Did you not go to school and learn basic measurements in metres?
I have seen exerts of Russia sailing across the world to search for different reasons, Maori were in the tangata whenua know as wakaminenga Moana Nui kiwa Pacific nuturini 1834 but lonh before the dates given through his- tory books or someones opinion
Jamieson did exactly what he was told,"sink the bloody thing". Waihopai was nearby and the instructions most likely came from a country north of NZ. He was never prosequeted, ask yourself.
Unlikely. For starters there’s no guarantee that it would receive mortal damage or even hit the rock at all for that matter. What would be the point? Even given that it did sink it’s in shallowish water and open to divers.
@@bernardkealey6449 it was originally built for Russian passengers but was reassigned as a cruise liner when they realised it rivalled or bettered what the westerners had. The same quality was put into subways and other public area.
@@ross82 would not say it was "better"... it lived a little longer so had the luxury of a begone era... much like some trains say in Mozambique are carved mahogany with plush seats and other arrangements dating back to the Victorian era. this was a ship comparative to the great liners such as the Titanic or the Lusitania... but built a little later when Liners were out of Vogue in the west... also like them, the difference between steerage and first class in the original configuration was vast... in the cruise versions, these areas became the places housing the secondary facilities & vast staff of the ship (note how the cruiser list was I think only 300 something, whilst the original model was meant to berth 1200 paying passengers)
@@ross82 While she was owned by Baltic she was chartered to CTC extremely cheaply from 1977/78ish. After a few years CTC managed to convince the Sovs to spend decent money on a refit - in 1992. Up till then most cabins didn’t have their own bathrooms. They were by no means “luxurious” by western standards. On their domestic cruises even the Sov passengers grumbled how terrible the food was, but the booze was really cheap, and there was a good roster of live entertainment. And it was cool that folk got to mix and mingle with comrades from different republics and even some westerners who revelled in super cheap price cruises and got to meet Soviet folk in holiday mode.
26:53 leads into 27:20 "And also that goes against the Code of the sea doesn't it?, You don't come to assistance if your not asked" WHAT A STUPID STATEMENT.. (But I guess by someone that has had nothing to do with the sea.) The sea can be a beautiful place... and it can be a terrifying place. I have ridden motor cross bikes full throttle through forest paths, jumped 60+ft long on said bikes and rode MTB downhill (poorly as my videos display) at 50+. Sailing scared me... YOU are the 1st to your rescue... and the next person may be hours away... When a boat can sink in mare minutes, that's not something to take lightly... so NO... That is not a code I have heard, and not something ANY boatie I have met would believe... People make bad calls when faced with danger, If there's a slight hint of an issue at sea, boaties will often go out of their way to 'just make sure all is well' and "see if we can lend a hand if needed'. (Again refer to the 2nd person to come to your rescue). I have sailed across Port Gore (note, it's not really a port, more of a big, fairly remote bay). Actually it was in a storm the Xmas after the Mikhail L went down... And it took 4 hours to sail across a the bay that normally took 1 hr. I've Kayaked through the gap between the lighthouse and Cape Jackson. The rip and updraft of the water hitting the reef below is ... "fun" to cross and was like a raging river on the Kayak.
No. The pilot is there to advise the captain. It is "RECOMMENDED" that the captain follow the advice of the pilot. However the ships safety is always the responsibility of the captain. Bear in mind that the pilot has local knowledge but the captain and the crew know the ship and its capabilities. Or atleast they should do.
😂 nothing would suprises me... The thing is we will never know what was said in the hours leading up to the impact... it's just all a little convenient. 🤔evidence of a golden handshake photo opportunity would better explain the risky maneuvers and tight lipped investigation especially if those involved are "connected".
My husband, myself and our children boarded the ferry in Picton when the Mikhail Lermontov was moored up on the other side of the wharf. We departed for Wellington and our kids were asking if the ferry would sink. No, no we assured her. Three or so hours later as we drove off the ferry we listened to the radio telling us the ML had sunk. My father Capt Ian Cook was involved in the background of the inquiry. He was told in no uncertain terms by the Minister of Transport to keep his mouth shut regarding some of his observations. He wrote about the ML in a chapter of his book “Those in Peril”. Yes the title also was used by Wilbur Smith after Dad’s book was published. The title comes from a very old seaman’s hymn that was used in Titanic. It was the hymn sung in the church service in the movie. Oh and Putin was in NZ during the inquiry so perhaps the KGB were concerned about some of the findings.
Thank you for that .😮
not sure where the information about Putin comes from... my understanding is, he would have been of a very low ranking nobody at the time, and it is very unlikely he was trusted enough to be given any "delicate job"... plus, he was in a totally different department (East-German affairs, so basically someone who deals with other communists, not with capitalist countries, from what I heard/read, to do that, you needed to prove your worth or have connections... he only really started gaining influence when he became part of the Leningrad Mafia-Government interactions under the Sabtchak clan, which would have been nearly a decade later)
but the KGB, they were nearly certainly involved... especially, since it was a poorly guarded secret the ship was also used for underwater surveillance and spying purposes....
The ship was in such a poor shape that it wouldn't be allowed to leave port today ,under the newer rules. My younger Brother was on the Tara's Shevchenko and told of things like gangways rattling and holes rusted through the decks etc etc. By 1986 the USSR was in trouble through inept leadership. Unlike today which sees the Federation in a very healthy fiscal position.
Thank you for response. I trained a horse for capt. Robinson and a few of his mate , not long after sinking . Sinking was never mentioned . But when i asked his mat WHY??. THEY SAID PISSED AZ A MAGGOT. 😅😅😮
Very glad to see you active again!
Thank you so much again! It really means alot. Will be sure to shout you out on the video next week.
..."bush clad walls", "tantalizing what might have been", "agility to save themselves", "buzzed the top of the ridgeline", "spot of bother", "frail, little lifeboats plying between them", "dangling well clear of the vessel", "bit of a broken man", "go freelance", "whispers in barrooms", "his final flourish"... Amazing, effortless way with words; impromptu poetry sprinkled throughout. Again, the best. No one who covers this subject matter can hold a candle. Thanks again!
If I recall rightly there was a standing joke that NZ had managed to do what even the US military had failed to do - sink a Soviet ship...
😂😂 it's true
...and get away with it
beware Ruskies navy 😅😊
I used to frequently scuba dive the Sounds and Outer Islands on club dive trips from Wellington, usually a long weekend of diving wrecks and chasing crayfish. We'd use a commercial boat, ex-fishing boat converted for diving and fishing operated by a very, very experienced local and Picton dredge captain.
That gap between Cape Jackson and offshore light was a great place to dive for big crays, probably the best, at slack water between tides although very difficult to get the right conditions. It is foul ground, littered with big rocks approaching the surface, nice big holes with big crays but if you stay too long, are struggling with a big, heavy sack and the tides start running then it is either a fast swim back to the boat or you are off in the current on the surface and 55 foot boat with an experienced skipper cannot come in to get you. They wave good-bye, back away and move outside the light to pick you up in the deeper waters of Cook Strait as you float by in the current.
I am astonished that the Lermontov was taken through there. Our local skipper treated that area with a lot of respect and he was a keen diver too. He knew where to drop us at slack water but he always moved his 55 footer back, didn't stay where the tides ran.
This was criminal behaviour on the part of the pilot.
...I knew we just had to spread the word!! Congrats on the latest video. You guys are the best and the world (...through TH-cam) is waking up to the fact. Thank you for another great episode. Cheers!
Great video - I dived the Mikhail back in 1999 in calm weather & even then it was murky & surreal.
Great retelling of this story, I was aware of it just not Putin being on board
Stay safe when you dive her. My mothers cousin sadly didn't make it, stirred up too much silt looking around one of the bars.
Very sorry to hear that. Diving can be quite dangerous around shipwrecks especially this one.
I was involved in the Dive work taking 2400 tons of oil from the ship including the survey of the Damaged to the ship
Did you meet Putin?
@@alexsetterington3142 don't be silly we Diver's are low level workers
Excellent documentary.
The hat was safe... 😂
Thanks!
Props getting Murray from the NZ Embassy in the podcast.
I believe Putin also sold shoes for Bata in Auckland? 🤔
An amazing story.
im 21 and have never heard about this, thanks heaps for sharing
I've been through that gap on a 50 foot albacore tuna boat, a third out from the Cape, two thirds in from the rocks, at the turn of high tide, December 1979. Very interesting documentary, thank you.
Been through that passage on small ships and I can testify there is not enough water for a liner to get through let alone deal with the rip that pushes the ship sideways. Insane to even try in anything that draws more than 2.5m or is longer than 40m, and Mikhail Lermontov was many times bigger than that - Jamesion must have known that and even a junior navigator could see that by spending 2 minutes looking at the chart that existed at that time.
I thought at the time,it was payback for a large dairy export deal with Russia.
I wish it was the 80s right now. The peak of man
Ive always understood that Putin was the owners representative at the inquiry
Then you understood wrong. He wasn;t there. Ask him yourself.
Thank you for that maritime history
Great documentary thank you.
I do remember the incident but i had know idea the background behind it.
I must admit striking resemblance to Putin in the photo.
I'm also having a good chuckle at some of the comments about him.
There was much more to this event than the public were ever told.
Thanks again for all the content
The New Zealand Pilot was pissed and he took the ship should not have gone as a boast, he stuffed up big time. Four ships sailed through that gap now, and they all come to grief..Der!
Great video, I especially enjoyed hearing that Putin was likely onboard and the conspiracy theories at the end. I think it most likely that is was a mistaken outrageous decision by the pilot. By the way the picture of the HMNZS Taupo was of an earlier world war 2 era Loch class frigate, not the actual 1970’s built Lake Class patrol boat of the same name.
The Holden cop car is 68 - 71 a bit before 86 would of been Commodores then haha great documentary really enjoyed it. @@epigwaitthistory
@@ehm179my dad was a cop back then. RIP Holden
Davey Jones threw him back.😭
She did beach because there was shingle in the bilges. Also, stopcocks were opened to allow water to flood IN! (Not realised at the time until Captain Fry inspected a sister ship in Auckland some years later) Jamieson kept stum: he had been asked to steer on to the rocks.
4:40 Colonel Hogan.
Don't know about the whole USSR, but certainly on the Crimean Black-Sea coast, it was very common that a Pilots, who often outranked the commanding captain of a ship, would fully take control of the ship and it's crew... (closely knew a few Pilots in the Karadag region back in the 1980s) not sure weather the tradition was something that effected this accident.
Google “Those in Peril” by Ian Cook. It’s available in the NZ Library. Chapter regarding Mikhail Lermentov.
May be but court records were sealed for 40 yr. From memory by tau henery "big toe"😮
What does Cook surmise?
Many bad decisions were made starting off leaving Picton going into Shakespeare bay WOW
Records sealed 40yrs. Story round picton was that ship was involved in dodgie work ,for Russia. Ive been through gap in boat . Trust me NO ONE would put a ship through. Poor ole Jamie was doin what he was told .😮
Rubbish. Jamieson overrules the skipper in these waters. It was a rather stupid and dodgy move on his part.
Thank you for commenting 😮
I think He (the Pilot) knew those waters like the back of his hand .. he was doing the Job for powerful Western agencies it was a carefully planned covert operation with the right people in place. I think he must have thought She would run aground and sit there.. but as we all know she slipped off the reef and drifted back…luckily the calm night and a good crew saved all but one .. (who may have been part of the op and slipped away into the night )
Waiting dive teams arrived and dived down to her, cut into the radio room and removed all the equipment they wanted…………………
Lol no.
Used to stay with a friend in Port Gore as a kid. We both did correspondence school and I don't recall his name now but I believe the family is still there. Remember him showing me after a storm bits of clothing and suitcases washed up on the beach. Maybe 1989/90. Have been through the same bit of water aboard a 50ft scallop boat with an experienced captain and know of many others but nothing much bigger than what we did
Yes there is a very good picture of a young Vladimir Putin on Lampton quay I believe
I have a copy
Damn I missed that picture. Thanks for watching Rob
No. There isn't. He wasn't there.
And it’s Lampton Quay.
take it up with autospell @@greghodge3587
@@greghodge3587 No, it's Lambton Quay.
Great stories thanks guys, have you done any about early Pakeha settlers. I have John Logan Campbells "Poemamu" and Jerningham Wakefields "Journeys in New Zealand" early editions and while controversary in context (written in the language and outlook of their time) very good stories, it would be interesting to see you present those stories in your style perhaps discussing that contextual issue.
Just to Re iterate that foreign ships like her need a pilot "local Knowledge" ferrys are exempt as there mastershave different exemptions. Also there were plan's to build two ships that were 220 meters almost 45 meters bigger and they were to go through Tory Channel. I've lived down at Okukari bay when you come in look to the right and it's the big sandy Beach with the Heberley family fishing and yes the Channel can be nasty at times but it's not that bad. The lumintov would have had a pilot used Channel 16 and 19 listened to in and out going traffic the problem was don Jameson took her through cape Jackson cut he should have gone wider or around not showed off.
The Kiwi thing to do , blame someone else !
It was the aussies
Trump did it! 😳😂
@@epigwaitthistoryThe most famous punching bag
@@DB-thats-me orange man bad
As gungho as Capt Jamesion's (the pilot) actions may seem, this narrative fails to mention the official survey of this passage issued by rhe NZ hydrographic office that ignores a survey from the 1890s, that shows the hazard that the ML struck. This detail is included in the official report. Current charts continue to ignore that hazard.
It seems a similar size to the Kaitaki. Or do I have that wrong?
one story I heard is the Richard Perble who was transport minister and had the report classified secret
Was she not built in the former DDR, in the port of Wismar?
about the same size as my first ship SS Nevasa.
I heard he was trying to impress a woman
A man would never take a risk like that to impress a woman.
Putin was checking out the Waihopai SPY BASE while docked in Picton
You can Google it,
a great man, a great leader
A bit of local information... "
I live in Wellington and our family had a batch (Holiday home) in Ngakuta Bay (next to Picton) from 1979 (when I was 1) that we travelled to 2-3 times a year (and sailed to from the mid 80's).
I know a lot of locals and boaties involved in the Picton, Queen Charlotte & Pelorous Sounds.
I have been told of a fairly large submerged fishing rock that was off the point of Shakespeare bay, Where the Michael Lermontub did a detour in and around (not just passing by).
That rock is now flattened.. and this happened around the same time the Lermontub went down.
The "Rumor" is that Capt' Jamieson took the tub too close, realised he had most likely hit the rock, so piloted the vessel through Jacksons so if any damage was found later, he could point his finger at the charted area, rather than the mistake made earlier...
Personally I think that's a bit of a stretch... but the info on the rock came from people we trusted for many fishing spots round the Sounds and D'Urville.
As for the depth of the water off the coast... a personal example I had was on the coast between Shakespeare Bay and the Cape... Dad nosed our yacht so close to the cliffs that the rocks were closer than the length of out yacht... and the sounder advised we were 20m above the bottom. Then again Dad once dropped us off in the middle of Umangata Bay and we walked ashore some 150m... and Ngakuta bay, you could row at low tide 120m from the shore with one oar in the mud, the other in 20ft
Bach spelled bach mate
@@philodonoghue3062 No... When I grew up... I spelt it Batch... and that's the way it remained for 25 years... (doesn't matter how others spelt it)...
And if you must be picky.. it's a Crib in the South Island and a Bach in the North...
Course I was a Nth Islander in the South so I can get away with it.
And really it was a boat shed that we kicked the boat out, folded down the bunks and on a cold day (I have smashed puddles there) you brought the BBQ inside.
Luxury!
@@TheButlerNZ I've lived in Canterbury my whole life - my family called ours a bach. Our neighbours called theirs a bach. The term crib seems to be used mostly in Otago and Southland. The Waitaki Valley seems to be about where the two worlds collide - holiday homes there are called either/or depending on whether the owners originate from north or south of there...
@@wheelbarrow01 I feel it's "Bach's" at the top of the South as it was all us Wellingtonians etc that used to cross the ditch for a holiday home... Now we can barely afford our own home and almost everyone else can't even afford that.
I REALLY miss the Bach in Ngakuta Bay... I've been everywhere but the Fjords deep south (and Stewart Isle)... and I found Queen Charlotte Sound the greatest place in NZ for a kid.
That's "experts" for ya. No matter the field. Experts are people at the top of their game and run out of people willing to critisize them. The fall is long and harsh. The lesson: Don't reply on experts. They live in a bubble.
Capt Jaminson was an excellent seaman an a very honest person. Being in Picton at the time there is an awful lot that is never published. Russians know a lot more. The vessel put its bow on the beach but captain let it drift off again. All water tight doors were found open ( fact)
Very true - and help from Straits/Sounds shipping was refused. An ex SIS man told me years ago that it was conducting illegal hydrographic surveys: Jamison was instructed to catch the ship in the channel so it could be boarded and inspected. The Lermintov was allowed to drift around the head of the bay so it could dump material overboard-- the reason it refused all assistance. If Putin was on board what a tragic missed opportunity to drown the rat! Prebble sealed the truth for 50 years!
Interesting clip. Weird that in effect no one was ever held to account ( well, the Capt sailed off to Siberia…) Don’t think Putin was ever in Australia / NZ. His only foreign posting 4 years to Dresden , Germany and then scooted back at the dissolution of the USSR and the rest as they say “ is history”
At 32:52 that is not Putin's ear, not at all.
Went to half-moon bay school stewart Island late 70s early 80s this ship moored at half-moon bay and we were allowed to have a school visit on board remember a small empty swimming pool and the ship was quite spartan still was an eventful day being soviet
( bottom of ) eye lobes look different
Putin worked in Wellington selling shoes
One and a half football fields long? What the heck is that? Who knows such trivia about a game that has nothing to do with shipping? Did you not go to school and learn basic measurements in metres?
Sounds like a lot of mistakes made by a lot of people. The pilot was mainly at fault
Jameson fkd up! plain n simple.
I have seen exerts of Russia sailing across the world to search for different reasons, Maori were in the tangata whenua know as wakaminenga Moana Nui kiwa Pacific nuturini 1834 but lonh before the dates given through his- tory books or someones opinion
Jamieson did exactly what he was told,"sink the bloody thing". Waihopai was nearby and the instructions most likely came from a country north of NZ. He was never prosequeted, ask yourself.
Unlikely. For starters there’s no guarantee that it would receive mortal damage or even hit the rock at all for that matter. What would be the point? Even given that it did sink it’s in shallowish water and open to divers.
Weird how people scoff the Soviet way, yet they had luxury like this when we didn’t.
It was converted to cruise liner to bring in foreign currency revenue. Not for the Soviet proletariat!
@@bernardkealey6449 it was originally built for Russian passengers but was reassigned as a cruise liner when they realised it rivalled or bettered what the westerners had. The same quality was put into subways and other public area.
@@ross82 would not say it was "better"... it lived a little longer so had the luxury of a begone era... much like some trains say in Mozambique are carved mahogany with plush seats and other arrangements dating back to the Victorian era.
this was a ship comparative to the great liners such as the Titanic or the Lusitania... but built a little later when Liners were out of Vogue in the west... also like them, the difference between steerage and first class in the original configuration was vast... in the cruise versions, these areas became the places housing the secondary facilities & vast staff of the ship (note how the cruiser list was I think only 300 something, whilst the original model was meant to berth 1200 paying passengers)
@@ross82 While she was owned by Baltic she was chartered to CTC extremely cheaply from 1977/78ish. After a few years CTC managed to convince the Sovs to spend decent money on a refit - in 1992. Up till then most cabins didn’t have their own bathrooms.
They were by no means “luxurious” by western standards. On their domestic cruises even the Sov passengers grumbled how terrible the food was, but the booze was really cheap, and there was a good roster of live entertainment. And it was cool that folk got to mix and mingle with comrades from different republics and even some westerners who revelled in super cheap price cruises and got to meet Soviet folk in holiday mode.
Obviously the Agency found/created some dirt on Jamieson and forced him to do their dirty work.
26:53 leads into 27:20 "And also that goes against the Code of the sea doesn't it?, You don't come to assistance if your not asked"
WHAT A STUPID STATEMENT.. (But I guess by someone that has had nothing to do with the sea.)
The sea can be a beautiful place... and it can be a terrifying place. I have ridden motor cross bikes full throttle through forest paths, jumped 60+ft long on said bikes and rode MTB downhill (poorly as my videos display) at 50+.
Sailing scared me... YOU are the 1st to your rescue... and the next person may be hours away... When a boat can sink in mare minutes, that's not something to take lightly...
so NO... That is not a code I have heard, and not something ANY boatie I have met would believe...
People make bad calls when faced with danger, If there's a slight hint of an issue at sea, boaties will often go out of their way to 'just make sure all is well' and "see if we can lend a hand if needed'.
(Again refer to the 2nd person to come to your rescue).
I have sailed across Port Gore (note, it's not really a port, more of a big, fairly remote bay). Actually it was in a storm the Xmas after the Mikhail L went down... And it took 4 hours to sail across a the bay that normally took 1 hr.
I've Kayaked through the gap between the lighthouse and Cape Jackson. The rip and updraft of the water hitting the reef below is ... "fun" to cross and was like a raging river on the Kayak.
A lot of my friends went to England on their OE so on the Shota Rustavali (spelling) it was a ship that was commonly about at the time.
Pilot not in charge.bs he's there to take command and pilot the ship out.
No. The pilot is there to advise the captain. It is "RECOMMENDED" that the captain follow the advice of the pilot. However the ships safety is always the responsibility of the captain.
Bear in mind that the pilot has local knowledge but the captain and the crew know the ship and its capabilities. Or atleast they should do.
Goodness, the Kiwis do like their conspiracy theories - just look at all these comments!
😂 nothing would suprises me...
The thing is we will never know what was said in the hours leading up to the impact... it's just all a little convenient. 🤔evidence of a golden handshake photo opportunity would better explain the risky maneuvers and tight lipped investigation especially if those involved are "connected".