@@heraldofv3379Amirite or what? Kramnik basically was saying: How could Hans take so long on a simple move? Or, how could he take so little time on a weird (deep computer-like) move? Kramnik psyched himself out and spent a lot of time thinking about Hans the 'Bot instead of thinking about chess. Instead, Kramnik would have been better served by focusing on chess. Let the chess speak for itself, as a wise man once said!
Yeah, that seems to be it. Could Hans be cheating? Sure. Was he cheating? Who knows, but Kramnik has yet to provide anything close to definitive evidence supporting his accusations. Also, why would Hans cheat agains Kramnik? What does he have to gain? Hans is clearly a top-tier player and after this past year's fiasco any hint of impropriety would torpedo his chess career. Why risk any of that playing a pickup game against somebody he most likely deeply respects (or at least did) and idolizes? I would think he would want to truly test his skills against the likes of Kramnik to see where he stands. None of this adds up and it just seems Kramnik is bitter he can't play at the level of some of the other players. He's lost the plot. We should take cheating seriously, and we should take accusations of cheating seriously, but those accusations should also come with hard evidence. This stuff can ruin careers and lives and Kramnik is hurting other players with his sloppy accusations.
@Dalroth I mean Hans has already admitted to cheating. He shouldn't cheat then wonder why when he plays great chess, people are suspecting him of cheating. It's basic cause and effect.
@@123duelist never said otherwise. My point has nothing to do with Hans cheating or not. It has everything to do with Kramnik making very strong, very targeted, and potentially damaging claims without solid evidence to back it up. That's very bad, especially against Hikaru. The only good thing is Hikaru can make money off of this controversy by pumping out more videos. A less popular/savvy player could be financially ruined by this.
Why does Kramnik not mention how much time he was using for his moves? He was losing on time the entire game and Hans was literally streaming and talking to his chat Hikaru esque.
This leads me to be more suspicious of Hans though. Against a strong super GM like Kramnik, streaming and interacting with chat instead of fully focussing on the game seems sus
@@Christoff070right, because your suspicions mean so much more than the professionals’ who analyzed Hans’ games and concluded there is zero evidence of cheating in any games other than the ones he already admitted to. Even carlsen had to admit that there was “zero determinative evidence” that Hans cheated in the game that started all this in the first place. The beads thing is so old, you kids need to grow up and just enjoy the chess. It’s like you think Magnus is the peak of chess and it’s only downhill from here, if any human has the potential to be even better he must just have beads up his butt. It was funny for like 2 minutes, now it’s just tiring
Can't help but imagine Kramnik at a restaurant, literally counting the seconds it takes for the waitress to bring him a glass of water, and then later counting the individual ice cubes in the glass with grave, professional interest
@@samtaro863 She must have been lazy - totally ignoring the possibilty that she might have served another guest in the mean time. But dont worry Kramnik can mind read.
This game went straight to the endgame. The endgame is so easy to blow if you screw up just a single move or play it out of time. Everyone knows this. Hans has been very impulsive in the past and lost winning positions and even lost drawn positions. He has been trying to eradicate this. Also, if a move is 100% clearly the best move, according to Kramnik, and it isn't played immediately....then it gets played anyway 20 seconds later....how does that indicate that a computer is helping Hans? Even at depth 50, a clearly obvious move would be flagged in a millisecond by the computer and played instantaneously by Hans, right? Kramnik is acting incoherently.
I thought Kramnik's suspicions over this game were pretty shaky at best at the time and now they look utterly insane after his recent accusations towards Hikaru
@@dessertstorm7476 ofc he didn't cheat OTB - how the fk can you do that in a high level Tournament - please enlighten us all with your insight into wizardry without looking stupid...
@@giuseppegalardi697 Bro he may have cheated on the board who knows but once you get such a big accusation from magnus you think he will cheat once again that also against legend players like kramnik no chance i feel bad for Hans if he plays good moves or bad moves he will be always called as a cheater which is no fault of his. I hope he wins some world rapid and blitz to prove like this match wins are not fluke and he belongs to that level.
@@thomsonjohnson8218 "which is no fault of his" Actually this is completely untrue. He gets accused of cheating because he admitted to cheating in the past. It makes 100% sense that people would think someone who cheated in the past would do it again. It doesn't mean that he DID cheat again, but the suspicion is 100% justified.
I notice that Hans's eyes shift up and to the left for each move. Usually a glance before the move is made, then a longer look after he makes the move, as if he's confirming
"I don't get it. The guy I wasn't able to beat didn't make the exact moves that I predicted he would. This is a mystery that can only be explained by skullduggery. He cheated. I have my smoking gun." -Kramdaddy
The faster the move (if it is good) the better the player, Kramnik has much more experience and a bigger ranking. He has been acused (apparently ) cheating against Carlson acording to him. !!!!!
I don’t “play chess,” the same way that Marli Alexa doesn’t “wear a bikini.” I live chess. I AM chess. The dumbest thing about Kramnick’s analysis is that he presents it like he can read Niemann’s mind. “Why didn’t he immediately make this obvious move? It’s what I would’ve done.” It’s like.. okay.. good for you (psycho). Guess what. Hans clearly saw that no-thought-required move too. Perhaps he then scanned the board (you know- for 20 seconds [lol]) to see if a better move existed. Maybe he wanted to pick up some tempo or something. I won’t speculate because I don’t similarly claim to be clairvoyant. After Niemann’s not-very-long scan of other possible moves finished up, he concluded that he didn’t have any tricky, better options, so he then made the move that launched Kramdaddy’s brain into a tailspin. Kramnick sees cheating everywhere because KRAMNICK IS A CHEATER. This isn’t a sophisticated, nuanced situation. Vladimir “the pot” Kramnick is making himself more and more famous (in the worst, stupidest way possible) by calling the kettle black.
@@philosophist9562 Online as a minor. But in person as an adult? ... How do you even do that? Meanwhile - memorizing what a bot would do isn't cheating. It's just the new way to play.
@@SelectCircle Sure it is possible him cheating a ton as younger makes him a different player to the rest but you can't say that the accusations Hans gets are unreasonable. Also yes it is possible cheat in person. You would be surprised what humans are capable of if they want it enough.
Most of the crowd is clueless as to why the time management is questionable for particular moves, but that won't stop them from sharing their half baked ideas
Everyone here upset that Hans isn't getting fair treatment. Well this is what happens when you CHEAT. It's like a husband having an affair, gaslighting his wife and community, then expecting fair and equal treatment for his questionable behaviors afterwards (Well Gary was out late too--you don't accuse HIM of anything). Tough luck Hans! Shouldn't have cheated so much and so often (oh but I was just a kid!). Shouldn't have lied. Shouldn't have responded like an ass and sued everyone. Gotta accept now that people have instincts to protect themselves from manipulative and dangerous people--can't be sorry for yourself that you've triggered those feelings in your entire community of well respected and mature professionals.
Niemann is someone I wouldn't trust. That's all. I wouldn't loan him money. I wouldn't give him directions. I wouldn't even bother to stop him stepping in the crosswalk against the light.
Umm not at all? Coaching is completely different to playing... In every sport the top players need coaches as well lil bro... A coaches job is to find your weaknesses and look for ways to improve your game, Kramnik might not still be a super strong player but he WAS the world champion, to think he has nothing to teach Hans is ridiculous.
I dont understand Kramniks time management either, how can he get flagged by Keymar being a bishop up. Never have i seen anything like this in my 120 years of chess lmao
@@ValRoyD I think you should probably be sent to the dungeons. No reasonable person condemns someone for life on stupid mistakes they made as a child. Hans was of the few with the actual balls to admit he cheated online in the past. While so many other GMs were caught, but say nothing and it is kept anonymous.
This is trial by suspicion, Kramnik should put up or shut up. Its totally unfair to Niemann and people are tarnishing his name without any proof. Having watched chess for quite some time its refreshing that like Carlsen, Niemann is doing the unpredictable. If we all knew what the person across the board was going to do for every scenario, it would get extremely boring. Interestingly Niemann beat Kramnik twice in a face to face game very shortly after. That to me says hes a rising star and Kramnik is a fading one. I also note that no one makes any noises about these 12 and 13 and 14 year old who are heading up the ranks very quickly is anyone accusing them of cheating, no. Leave Niemann alone and lets enjoy the chess
I always get suspicious when people say the phrase "to be honest". So everything without this prefix is a lie? You only say it when it's something very embarrassing or you reveal something bad about you.
First you tell me "it's just a phrase". Then you explain me the intention of it. You have to make up your mind. My experience tells me that often dishonest people use it. And Hans has a record...@@smaakjeks
@@Peter-zt2fh I'm suspicious of Hans, too, but the phrase does not imply that "all that other stuff I said is BS, but NOW I'm being honest". That's simply not what that phrase means. If English is your second language I understand the mistake.
To be honest a lot of these "suspicious" moves look more like practical decisions to keep up on time and not disturb the position too much and kramnik does not compute that
Hans spends a few seconds with the chat. Kramnik, losing his mind: “WHY DOESN’T HE PLAY INSTANTLY?” Hans wins the game in the end. Hans is the GOAT of mind games.
Exactly! Thank you Epic Chess for showing Hans perspective to show how ridiculous these "questionable" time management suspicions are. Kramnik could have seen for himself but didn't bother.
It seems to me that once you know someone out there is cheating (as is the case) paranoia seems to fester until you think many who beat you must be cheating. I think part of the problem is the competiveness of the chess and personalities it attracts. Many chess players are arrogant as to their own ability, regularly over-optimistic both to their evaluation of any given position (tend to intuit their position is better than it is) and to their own sense that they "should" win always. I don't mean that in an overly critical way, it's probably necessary to be that way to reach the top, in any sport really. But combine paranoia with an overinflated ego and sense of your own ability and right to win and suddenly you see cheats everywhere when you lose. Kramnik has lost credibility however and in a way he's become part of the problem, not a cure to it. It's not fair to Hans to claim/imply/suggest he is cheating when the only "proof" is so subjective and inconclusive, "he took a few seconds longer to make move x", well maybe he was thinking about a move 3 moves down the line at the time, maybe he was thinking about what to have for dinner, reading his chat, scratching his nether regions. He was up on time in the game, not down. An algorithm can detect potential cheating, objectively speaking, but Kramnik cannot, not when his pride is hurt at having lost. If a proper review suggests cheating that's one thing, if it's only a feeling "I'm not sure why he played move x" then that's not enough. Hans did cheat at one point and that is his own fault and let him pay the price for it, but you need more than "I lost so he cheated".
Chat interactions change move times. It should be fairly easy to do the eye tracking to see if Hans was always looking at the same place on the second monitor. If not, then sometimes he wasn't looking at chat.
I noticed him looking at 3 distinct spots. One was chat, he would look there then respond to what they were saying. One was definitely the board because he would be looking there as he made his moves. But there was a third spot he kept checking right as he would change moves. Highly suspicious IMO.
@@Aldwulf How is it *highly suspicious* ? If he indeed looked at 3 distinct spots well, one of them could be really anything. For example, the recording session timer, or just instagram notifications, whatever you imagine can be true or false.
the only proof for cheating is looking into the databases and finding that Hans accuracy in many online games was out of this world on multiple occasions. that is proof. rest is non sense
LOL at Niemann defense team.. You fools are ignorant, no human can play these levels of accuracy OVER and OVER, especially not a mediocre player like Hans@@vn_loc7316
This video 100% explains why Kramnik is accusing all and sundry of cheating. People play with a different style in the blitz formats and he doesn't understand why they don't play like him because he thinks his style is the best and only style.
EXACTLY ... cannot believe more people are not noticing and talking about it. He was refencing something at the top of his screen , clear eye shifting .... that really seems suspicious.
My question is where are Hans' eyes going right before he changes his moves? He has 3 distinct places he is looking. I can assume one is chat, the other is the game board, but what is the third location on his screen he keeps checking? Very curious. I'd love to see a screenshare of what he was looking at right before changing moves.
I don't argue for or against of what happened, but what I find "interesting" is that Niemann always does this escape tactic of being the biggest fan of whoever accuses him of cheating or something, like when he reacted to Hikaru's videos, he also said he's the biggest fan of Hikaru and now he's not sure what to think. There are people who have this guilt attack reaction of making someone feel guilty when they catched him with something, not sure if it's the cae for Hans but anyway, a remark.
I'm tempted to try to analyse the eyes of Hans and come up with a theory on where he was looking for the 'answers' but then I don't actually care all that much, even though I am quite enjoying the drama. I really hope he is not cheating but it's a pretty wild ride he is on.
U can see him looking at the chats and responding to the comments. He must be a superhuman to be able to read chats, respond to them, while also looking at a second screen and cheating
@@artistejiro Would it potentially be easier to cheat that way, if you can claim to be looking at chat but the best move is shown in a window next to the chat? Dunno, I don't really care so much. If he is cheating it is scuzzy but kinda exciting, if he is not then he's a pretty awesome chess player to be 2 min up on a guy he wants to coach him and hosting a live stream at the same time.
Statistics, timing tells, prior cheating, crazy unheard linear ELO rise, best player in the world feeling it too and gambles his reputation on it, back to back brilliant hard to find moves in speed chess, commentators outplaying him in post analysis where he couldn't explain any moves.....must all be in our heads right ?
Not enough to claim it as a fact. But there's an undeniable pattern of changes in skill level that strikes me as awfully suspicious. Even Magnus and other super grandmasters cannot match Neimann's current level of accuracy. Doesn't that give you a slight pause for thought? @@Peter-dk2ov
Now we know something.... Kramnik DEFINITELY has no wife or girlfriend! I mean, she'd come home 2 minutes late and he'd be grilling her about why she was 2 minutes late. The next day, she'd b 2 minutes early and he'd still say "It makes no sense!" wow. There is nothing suspicious about taking longer than KRAMNIK thinks it should take. If the moves were complex and coming in 1 second, THEN be suspicious. Or just don't play online.
The thing that is weird to me is that he is rated what 2600 ish in classical where you have time to analyze but 3000 on computer. The 92 - 97% accuracy against 86 - 89% accuracy is suspicious. you would think you would be less accurate with less time to analyze the position.
I a really sorry Mr, Kramnik I did not play your own old fashion move. And by the way it took me 20 seconds realized such mistake since its not taking the time you considered i should to take for the next move.
Hans move against shreyas is out of the world. It is very brilliant move. We see such things very rarely. He is the most unpredictable players. Sometimes he looses to low ranked players. Sometimes he plays brilliant moves against top players. Very unpredictable player.
@@giuseppegalardi697 that's not how it works numbskull, there is 15-30 mins stream delay. you cannot cheat if you dont give input on real time and get output real time.
He reminds me of Chuky, he can play one game like a 2500 and the next is an immortal where he crushes a super GM. Hans has played so many phenomenal games under massive scrutiny OTB. After the SC everyone was like "let's see if he can stay at this level" and he definitively has.
@@softan Never been proved simpleton - only based on his admission years ago in a couple of games....never cheated OTB.....pray tell....how could he...
I don’t understand why ‘professional streamers’ don’t stream a second camera so we can see their computer screen and desk! That along with getting rid of the headset would eliminate any suspicion of cheating from all of them!
i think big vlad and the moke are on good terms now , he posted in his bio that he never meant to accuse hans and invited him to levitov chess week to which hans couldn't go but the met later in switzerland and hans posted a puzzle he got from kramnik, agadmator even has a video hinting at their reconciliation. th-cam.com/video/o8-YZuEW804/w-d-xo.html
@@epicchess2021 He took 5 seconds instead of playing the clearly obvious best move in 1 seconds, thats how I Kramnik who always knows the clearly best move somehow ended up losing and in more time trouble than him. Surely mathematicians would agree that this is very very interesting!
Chess players seem to make alot of accusations simply because a move by their opponent doesn't make sense to them. Ridiculuous. I saw nothing suspicious here.
i suggest watching some c-squared analysis of the kid`s gameplay....featuring Fabio btw....some moves proof the kid`s utter lack of basic theory- either he is lucky beyond beleif or a cheat.
It looks like a lot of these supposedly suspicious moves are just Niemann trying to run down his opponents clock. At least to me they look like moves that don't matter and that he will just move back from, but he knows that his opponent hasn't thought much about those moves. So he spends a few seconds whenever he decides there isn't an obvious move to better his position, looks for a meaningless move, and then let's his opponent waste time thinking about the implications of that move. Sounds like a decent strategy against grandmasters. It's basically what we see Magnus doing quite often, the difference is just that Magnus is better or just as good on a physical board. I think Niemann plays digitally all the time and mentally isn't used to playing on a physical board, so his mind lags just a tiny bit behind. Think of it like if you are used to reading ebooks and then read a physical book or vice versa. It's the same thing, it just feels off. But people are suspicious because it is the same thing, so you would think he should be just as good.
So Hans plays a few moves " out of the box" and Kramnik finds it suspicious ! Lighten up man , it is only a game !Perhaps he does not want to end up hating the game like Bobby Fischer .
Time for all streamers to have split screen with go pro for one screen sp we can see what they are seeing in real time. First to do this will be ballers
I’m a Hans fan ngl, but even I was perplexed at how slow Hans was at making moves even a “bronze league chess gumby” like me would make almost instantly. I guess he had the time on the clock so was looking for some brilliancy tactics I would never see.
Nop. There was only that 1 move or you are down a piece. He had clicked his brain of at that point and waited for an answer. Notice how he almost never tells you his plans, traps or lines that might happen...because he have no clue what's going on once he turns to the engine. I promise you 100% Hans is cheating. Don't be a fanboy, you gonna get egg on your face for that soon.
@@donranewe believe in proof. I would love to know how you do on the board? Were you feeding the moves to computer after going back in time for that delayed minutes. You also had invisibility cloak to go to him in wisper in his ears the move. 😅😅😅
I don't know if hans cheated or not,thats between him and God,but I think its very childish of Kramnik to think that everyone thats not making the same moves as me in a match is cheating😂were all different,have different brains,were not damn robots
Does anyone else think that young kramnik could’ve been the 5th beatle?
😂
Nah, Suspicious Minds was Elvis, not Beatles.
For me Hans just didnt know what to do and he played 2 waiting moves😂😂😂
@@hermanjohnell2717 maybe old kramnik kinda resembles old Elvis. Slap some mutton chops and a rhinestone outfit on him and I think we have ringer
checkmate, well played@@hermanjohnell2717
Hans now has a psychological tool few other grandmasters do. He only needs to play unpredictably, and the other guy get psyched out.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Hah so true.
He's a "dark horse"
Very true and useful
@@heraldofv3379Amirite or what? Kramnik basically was saying: How could Hans take so long on a simple move? Or, how could he take so little time on a weird (deep computer-like) move? Kramnik psyched himself out and spent a lot of time thinking about Hans the 'Bot instead of thinking about chess. Instead, Kramnik would have been better served by focusing on chess. Let the chess speak for itself, as a wise man once said!
AT this point i think that kramnik suspects himself of cheating...
😂
love this comment! It would be so fun to make him watch a game he played with strange move/time management and see if he can self report lmao
@@HaydenNK3 🤣
Why is "at" capitalized?
Nieman’s eyes were darting all around tho..
It seems Kramnik's test is essentially did the player make the same move he would have in the same timeframe if not then he suspects cheating.
He should play me. I would definitely not be making the same moves as him, ha! I must be cheating.
Yeah, that seems to be it.
Could Hans be cheating? Sure. Was he cheating? Who knows, but Kramnik has yet to provide anything close to definitive evidence supporting his accusations.
Also, why would Hans cheat agains Kramnik? What does he have to gain? Hans is clearly a top-tier player and after this past year's fiasco any hint of impropriety would torpedo his chess career. Why risk any of that playing a pickup game against somebody he most likely deeply respects (or at least did) and idolizes? I would think he would want to truly test his skills against the likes of Kramnik to see where he stands.
None of this adds up and it just seems Kramnik is bitter he can't play at the level of some of the other players. He's lost the plot.
We should take cheating seriously, and we should take accusations of cheating seriously, but those accusations should also come with hard evidence. This stuff can ruin careers and lives and Kramnik is hurting other players with his sloppy accusations.
@Dalroth I mean Hans has already admitted to cheating. He shouldn't cheat then wonder why when he plays great chess, people are suspecting him of cheating. It's basic cause and effect.
@@123duelist never said otherwise.
My point has nothing to do with Hans cheating or not. It has everything to do with Kramnik making very strong, very targeted, and potentially damaging claims without solid evidence to back it up. That's very bad, especially against Hikaru. The only good thing is Hikaru can make money off of this controversy by pumping out more videos. A less popular/savvy player could be financially ruined by this.
@@Dalroth But this is a video about Kramnik making claims against a known cheater, Hans. Not Hikaru.
Why does Kramnik not mention how much time he was using for his moves? He was losing on time the entire game and Hans was literally streaming and talking to his chat Hikaru esque.
It's easier when you have beads in your bottom
How's yours @@galaxygalaxy4429
yeah balls unlike someone@@galaxygalaxy4429
This leads me to be more suspicious of Hans though. Against a strong super GM like Kramnik, streaming and interacting with chat instead of fully focussing on the game seems sus
@@Christoff070right, because your suspicions mean so much more than the professionals’ who analyzed Hans’ games and concluded there is zero evidence of cheating in any games other than the ones he already admitted to. Even carlsen had to admit that there was “zero determinative evidence” that Hans cheated in the game that started all this in the first place.
The beads thing is so old, you kids need to grow up and just enjoy the chess. It’s like you think Magnus is the peak of chess and it’s only downhill from here, if any human has the potential to be even better he must just have beads up his butt. It was funny for like 2 minutes, now it’s just tiring
Can't help but imagine Kramnik at a restaurant, literally counting the seconds it takes for the waitress to bring him a glass of water, and then later counting the individual ice cubes in the glass with grave, professional interest
😂😂😂
Hans out there playing like Bobby Fischer recently... Kramnik out there playing like Bobby's weird, neurotic dad 😂
I finds it odd that it took the waitress 10 seconds to make the water and put the cubes in. Such an obvious move that the waitress could be done.
@@samtaro863 She must have been lazy - totally ignoring the possibilty that she might have served another guest in the mean time. But dont worry Kramnik can mind read.
I actually do this to determine how much tip to give.
This game went straight to the endgame. The endgame is so easy to blow if you screw up just a single move or play it out of time. Everyone knows this. Hans has been very impulsive in the past and lost winning positions and even lost drawn positions. He has been trying to eradicate this.
Also, if a move is 100% clearly the best move, according to Kramnik, and it isn't played immediately....then it gets played anyway 20 seconds later....how does that indicate that a computer is helping Hans? Even at depth 50, a clearly obvious move would be flagged in a millisecond by the computer and played instantaneously by Hans, right?
Kramnik is acting incoherently.
I dont think the computer is in the same room 🤔 so he has to wait for the email.
I thought Kramnik's suspicions over this game were pretty shaky at best at the time and now they look utterly insane after his recent accusations towards Hikaru
My thoughts too
Because Hikaru is so freaking fast it’s insane
I dunno if Niemann cheated OTB against magnus, but with all the attention on him I seriously doubt he cheated against Kramnik
@@dessertstorm7476 ofc he didn't cheat OTB - how the fk can you do that in a high level Tournament - please enlighten us all with your insight into wizardry without looking stupid...
You know there is ways of cheating right ? Just because we can't pinpoint how he does it don't mean he is innocent.
Hmm... My opponent is making moves I didn't foresee.
Sus.
In an opening that he pioneered. Former world champion btw
Really appreciate you including the videos! Takes this content to a new level
Thanks very much
Just because Kramnik doesn't understand why Hans was taking so long before making an obvious move means nothing. That's Kramnik's problem, not Hans'.
Neman’s using the engine.
@@giuseppegalardi697 No he's not.
@@giuseppegalardi697 Bro he may have cheated on the board who knows but once you get such a big accusation from magnus you think he will cheat once again that also against legend players like kramnik no chance i feel bad for Hans if he plays good moves or bad moves he will be always called as a cheater which is no fault of his. I hope he wins some world rapid and blitz to prove like this match wins are not fluke and he belongs to that level.
@@thomsonjohnson8218 "which is no fault of his" Actually this is completely untrue. He gets accused of cheating because he admitted to cheating in the past. It makes 100% sense that people would think someone who cheated in the past would do it again. It doesn't mean that he DID cheat again, but the suspicion is 100% justified.
rrright...
I notice that Hans's eyes shift up and to the left for each move. Usually a glance before the move is made, then a longer look after he makes the move, as if he's confirming
See the eyes of Niemann he's looking down the screen, it's obvious he was cheating
Amen
"I don't get it. The guy I wasn't able to beat didn't make the exact moves that I predicted he would. This is a mystery that can only be explained by skullduggery. He cheated. I have my smoking gun." -Kramdaddy
He was 10 times faster than Kramnik, just think how much more experience he has. do you play Chess. ???? 🤔🤔🤔🤔
The faster the move (if it is good) the better the player, Kramnik has much more experience and a bigger ranking. He has been acused (apparently ) cheating against Carlson acording to him. !!!!!
Do yot play Chess ????
I don’t “play chess,” the same way that Marli Alexa doesn’t “wear a bikini.” I live chess. I AM chess. The dumbest thing about Kramnick’s analysis is that he presents it like he can read Niemann’s mind. “Why didn’t he immediately make this obvious move? It’s what I would’ve done.” It’s like.. okay.. good for you (psycho). Guess what. Hans clearly saw that no-thought-required move too. Perhaps he then scanned the board (you know- for 20 seconds [lol]) to see if a better move existed. Maybe he wanted to pick up some tempo or something. I won’t speculate because I don’t similarly claim to be clairvoyant. After Niemann’s not-very-long scan of other possible moves finished up, he concluded that he didn’t have any tricky, better options, so he then made the move that launched Kramdaddy’s brain into a tailspin. Kramnick sees cheating everywhere because KRAMNICK IS A CHEATER. This isn’t a sophisticated, nuanced situation. Vladimir “the pot” Kramnick is making himself more and more famous (in the worst, stupidest way possible) by calling the kettle black.
@@davidbrearey4147is that English?
Kramnik has completely destroyed his credibility on this issue lol
He is right about Niemann and wrong about Hikaru. He has not handled it well but I respect him for going after a certified cheater. Hans needs to go.
@@donrane You managed to find the only hypocritical argument.
@RaniaIsAwesomestick to checkers 😂
@@kyleowen6492:D
@RaniaIsAwesomeNah bro go back to checkers lol 😂😂
It’s crazy that so many chess players in the comments think that they understand chess better than Kramnik
Nop, but i think nieman does
I used to be suspicious of Hans ... but now I'm starting to think he's just the new normal in DAMN GOOD.
I mean he has cheated in the past though🤣🤣
@@philosophist9562 Online as a minor. But in person as an adult? ... How do you even do that? Meanwhile - memorizing what a bot would do isn't cheating. It's just the new way to play.
@@SelectCircle Sure it is possible him cheating a ton as younger makes him a different player to the rest but you can't say that the accusations Hans gets are unreasonable. Also yes it is possible cheat in person. You would be surprised what humans are capable of if they want it enough.
@@philosophist9562 Yes - they're capable of MEMORIZING what a BOT would do! And that is not cheating.
Most of the crowd is clueless as to why the time management is questionable for particular moves, but that won't stop them from sharing their half baked ideas
Everyone here upset that Hans isn't getting fair treatment. Well this is what happens when you CHEAT. It's like a husband having an affair, gaslighting his wife and community, then expecting fair and equal treatment for his questionable behaviors afterwards (Well Gary was out late too--you don't accuse HIM of anything).
Tough luck Hans! Shouldn't have cheated so much and so often (oh but I was just a kid!). Shouldn't have lied. Shouldn't have responded like an ass and sued everyone. Gotta accept now that people have instincts to protect themselves from manipulative and dangerous people--can't be sorry for yourself that you've triggered those feelings in your entire community of well respected and mature professionals.
Niemann is someone I wouldn't trust. That's all. I wouldn't loan him money. I wouldn't give him directions. I wouldn't even bother to stop him stepping in the crosswalk against the light.
Honestly once one player cheats will do it again
Hans is playing the long chess game. Him and Kramniks got together after and to plan the gotcha attack against Hikaru
No one likes to play with the engine. In this game Niemman uses Fritz.
Regardless of the actual use of cheating (or not), the constant accusations and known instances have reduced the majestic alure for the game of chess.
He destroys Kramniks and then says he wanted coaching of him. What kind of backhanded compliment is that?
Umm not at all? Coaching is completely different to playing... In every sport the top players need coaches as well lil bro... A coaches job is to find your weaknesses and look for ways to improve your game, Kramnik might not still be a super strong player but he WAS the world champion, to think he has nothing to teach Hans is ridiculous.
Kramnik is throwing a tantrum.
Hardly. Glad you could pipe in on this though. Was waiting for your opinion.
Pretty cool that kramnik can do all moves in one second except for his own ones....
That very day “online” chess spoke for itself and kremlik was at a loss of words
I dont understand Kramniks time management either, how can he get flagged by Keymar being a bishop up. Never have i seen anything like this in my 120 years of chess lmao
9:45 Ever heard of Duper's Delight?
No afraid not lol
You see Hans looking at his engine screen.
When Hans plays too quickly=> cheating, When Hans takes too much time=> cheating.... no matter what he does, it is considered 'Cheating'
Because he’s been caught cheating before. Once a cheater, always a cheater.
@@ValRoyD Yeah, really is the consequences of bro's own actions
@@ValRoyDdoesnt make sense + you're 1400
@@ValRoyD I think you should probably be sent to the dungeons. No reasonable person condemns someone for life on stupid mistakes they made as a child. Hans was of the few with the actual balls to admit he cheated online in the past. While so many other GMs were caught, but say nothing and it is kept anonymous.
@@ValRoyD Once a cliche user, never a thoughtful person.
This is trial by suspicion, Kramnik should put up or shut up. Its totally unfair to Niemann and people are tarnishing his name without any proof. Having watched chess for quite some time its refreshing that like Carlsen, Niemann is doing the unpredictable. If we all knew what the person across the board was going to do for every scenario, it would get extremely boring. Interestingly Niemann beat Kramnik twice in a face to face game very shortly after. That to me says hes a rising star and Kramnik is a fading one. I also note that no one makes any noises about these 12 and 13 and 14 year old who are heading up the ranks very quickly is anyone accusing them of cheating, no. Leave Niemann alone and lets enjoy the chess
Kramnik is a Russian, so these trials are what he grew up with.
Hans has been proven to cheat in the past. If you ask me he shouldn't be allowed in tournaments in the first place because of that.
I always get suspicious when people say the phrase "to be honest". So everything without this prefix is a lie? You only say it when it's something very embarrassing or you reveal something bad about you.
No, it's just a phrase. It's used as a variation of "to be frank", as in, to speak plainly and without diplomacy.
You are overthinking, just like Kramnik. To be honest, I mean. :D
First you tell me "it's just a phrase". Then you explain me the intention of it. You have to make up your mind. My experience tells me that often dishonest people use it. And Hans has a record...@@smaakjeks
@@Peter-zt2fh I'm suspicious of Hans, too, but the phrase does not imply that "all that other stuff I said is BS, but NOW I'm being honest". That's simply not what that phrase means. If English is your second language I understand the mistake.
English is my third language to be honest☺@@smaakjeks
Hans' reaction to Kramnik's take was very respectful, mature and smart.
To be honest a lot of these "suspicious" moves look more like practical decisions to keep up on time and not disturb the position too much and kramnik does not compute that
Hans spends a few seconds with the chat.
Kramnik, losing his mind: “WHY DOESN’T HE PLAY INSTANTLY?”
Hans wins the game in the end. Hans is the GOAT of mind games.
Gotta make you wonder why he now thinks Hikaru is cheating because Naka is lighting fast
@@patrickmadden6340 If someone play slow, he/she is cheating, if play fast, still cheating
Exactly! Thank you Epic Chess for showing Hans perspective to show how ridiculous these "questionable" time management suspicions are. Kramnik could have seen for himself but didn't bother.
It seems to me that once you know someone out there is cheating (as is the case) paranoia seems to fester until you think many who beat you must be cheating. I think part of the problem is the competiveness of the chess and personalities it attracts. Many chess players are arrogant as to their own ability, regularly over-optimistic both to their evaluation of any given position (tend to intuit their position is better than it is) and to their own sense that they "should" win always. I don't mean that in an overly critical way, it's probably necessary to be that way to reach the top, in any sport really. But combine paranoia with an overinflated ego and sense of your own ability and right to win and suddenly you see cheats everywhere when you lose. Kramnik has lost credibility however and in a way he's become part of the problem, not a cure to it.
It's not fair to Hans to claim/imply/suggest he is cheating when the only "proof" is so subjective and inconclusive, "he took a few seconds longer to make move x", well maybe he was thinking about a move 3 moves down the line at the time, maybe he was thinking about what to have for dinner, reading his chat, scratching his nether regions. He was up on time in the game, not down. An algorithm can detect potential cheating, objectively speaking, but Kramnik cannot, not when his pride is hurt at having lost. If a proper review suggests cheating that's one thing, if it's only a feeling "I'm not sure why he played move x" then that's not enough. Hans did cheat at one point and that is his own fault and let him pay the price for it, but you need more than "I lost so he cheated".
Niemann just gone way up in my estimation a class act.
Chat interactions change move times. It should be fairly easy to do the eye tracking to see if Hans was always looking at the same place on the second monitor. If not, then sometimes he wasn't looking at chat.
uh, was that same place the chat lines, or was it the computer lines? You couldn’t distinguish.
@@abj136 they would be in different parts of the screen.
I noticed him looking at 3 distinct spots. One was chat, he would look there then respond to what they were saying. One was definitely the board because he would be looking there as he made his moves. But there was a third spot he kept checking right as he would change moves. Highly suspicious IMO.
@@AldwulfWhy didn't he use headphones to cheat just like another cheater?
@@Aldwulf How is it *highly suspicious* ? If he indeed looked at 3 distinct spots well, one of them could be really anything. For example, the recording session timer, or just instagram notifications, whatever you imagine can be true or false.
the only proof for cheating is looking into the databases and finding that Hans accuracy in many online games was out of this world on multiple occasions. that is proof. rest is non sense
Has anyone actually recreated the board and shown whether the bot would ever play Neiman’s moves?
Hans seems to be looking at a 2nd monitor tho….
He is a friggin cheater.
2nd monitor might be chat
I think that's the chat
@@sherylbegby you think but you don’t know
LOL at Niemann defense team.. You fools are ignorant, no human can play these levels of accuracy OVER and OVER, especially not a mediocre player like Hans@@vn_loc7316
Kramnik complaining about a move taking 6 seconds, while he had used up nearly a minute more than Hans at the time. 😂
This video 100% explains why Kramnik is accusing all and sundry of cheating. People play with a different style in the blitz formats and he doesn't understand why they don't play like him because he thinks his style is the best and only style.
Hans was obviously using Evilfish (tm) that likes to move pieces backwards and forwards regardless.
It's obvious to me that he's trying to learn how to play the Berlin defense. Everyone just jumps to conclusions
Kramnik is paranoid. It's 3 minute game, wtf he expect? lol
Hans is looking to te left top of his screen regularly
EXACTLY ... cannot believe more people are not noticing and talking about it. He was refencing something at the top of his screen , clear eye shifting .... that really seems suspicious.
@@Andromedaskyforce Could be the chat. Is there a second chess board reflected in his eyes?
@@sherylbegby ... this happens just as he is making big chess decisions. Doubtful it is the chat and who keeps a chat up high?
Hikaru does that too. Alot of people look away when thinking
Kramnik has played over a million games. And he remembers exactly his thoughts for a 3 minute game?
This is normal. Chess players have great memories for games. Some players can remember every move and every though even dacades later.
My question is where are Hans' eyes going right before he changes his moves? He has 3 distinct places he is looking. I can assume one is chat, the other is the game board, but what is the third location on his screen he keeps checking? Very curious. I'd love to see a screenshare of what he was looking at right before changing moves.
The same one Hikuru has on his ceiling.
I don't argue for or against of what happened, but what I find "interesting" is that Niemann always does this escape tactic of being the biggest fan of whoever accuses him of cheating or something, like when he reacted to Hikaru's videos, he also said he's the biggest fan of Hikaru and now he's not sure what to think. There are people who have this guilt attack reaction of making someone feel guilty when they catched him with something, not sure if it's the cae for Hans but anyway, a remark.
I think Kramnik is following the path of Fisher, meaning, he's going insane
have you watched interviews of fisher in his later years to come to that cliched conclusion.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Fisher was becoming too sane in his later years in an insane world - that was his problem
@@SmartDumbNerdyCool kudos to that.
So, Hans plays weird, according to Kramnik, and therefore, cheating? This seems a little insane to me, but what do I know?
I'm tempted to try to analyse the eyes of Hans and come up with a theory on where he was looking for the 'answers' but then I don't actually care all that much, even though I am quite enjoying the drama. I really hope he is not cheating but it's a pretty wild ride he is on.
U can see him looking at the chats and responding to the comments. He must be a superhuman to be able to read chats, respond to them, while also looking at a second screen and cheating
@@artistejiro Would it potentially be easier to cheat that way, if you can claim to be looking at chat but the best move is shown in a window next to the chat? Dunno, I don't really care so much. If he is cheating it is scuzzy but kinda exciting, if he is not then he's a pretty awesome chess player to be 2 min up on a guy he wants to coach him and hosting a live stream at the same time.
Chess needs hans. He's literally the new generation of chess players. He's sketchy but needed.
Hans is so obviously checking his second monitor
Thank you for showing both their sides especially Hans side replying to chat since it refutes the inital accusation
I don't believe for a nanosecond that Hans improved so spectacularly to Fischer-like ability.
Your opinion on the matter is very well informed I presume
HN is world's most skilled cheater. He'll get caught eventually.
Statistics, timing tells, prior cheating, crazy unheard linear ELO rise, best player in the world feeling it too and gambles his reputation on it, back to back brilliant hard to find moves in speed chess, commentators outplaying him in post analysis where he couldn't explain any moves.....must all be in our heads right ?
Not enough to claim it as a fact. But there's an undeniable pattern of changes in skill level that strikes me as awfully suspicious. Even Magnus and other super grandmasters cannot match Neimann's current level of accuracy. Doesn't that give you a slight pause for thought? @@Peter-dk2ov
Practice makes perfect, you know
Hans seemed really sincere at the end, disappointed in the way things turned out.
Where's the video of kramnik?
th-cam.com/video/HYgUp9AGo5k/w-d-xo.html
I was perplexed by a couple of Kramnik's moves coming into the end game. Sour grapes.
Now we know something.... Kramnik DEFINITELY has no wife or girlfriend! I mean, she'd come home 2 minutes late and he'd be grilling her about why she was 2 minutes late. The next day, she'd b 2 minutes early and he'd still say "It makes no sense!" wow. There is nothing suspicious about taking longer than KRAMNIK thinks it should take. If the moves were complex and coming in 1 second, THEN be suspicious. Or just don't play online.
Hahaha I think he is married!
@@epicchess2021 poor spouse. hehe
The thing that is weird to me is that he is rated what 2600 ish in classical where you have time to analyze but 3000 on computer. The 92 - 97% accuracy against 86 - 89% accuracy is suspicious. you would think you would be less accurate with less time to analyze the position.
online ratings are not the same as FIDE rating
I dont think Hans was cheating lol. It's pretty clear from his stream he's just chilling.
I a really sorry Mr, Kramnik I did not play your own old fashion move. And by the way it took me 20 seconds realized such mistake since its not taking the time you considered i should to take for the next move.
Hans move against shreyas is out of the world. It is very brilliant move. We see such things very rarely. He is the most unpredictable players. Sometimes he looses to low ranked players. Sometimes he plays brilliant moves against top players. Very unpredictable player.
I’ll say that in other words: sometimes he uses the engine, sometimes not.
@@giuseppegalardi697 ok what is the mechanism OTB?
@@giuseppegalardi697 that's not how it works numbskull, there is 15-30 mins stream delay. you cannot cheat if you dont give input on real time and get output real time.
He reminds me of Chuky, he can play one game like a 2500 and the next is an immortal where he crushes a super GM. Hans has played so many phenomenal games under massive scrutiny OTB. After the SC everyone was like "let's see if he can stay at this level" and he definitively has.
Exactly - a _strange move_ doesn't mean he is cheating.
Kramnik would be suspicious of someone in Hungry Hungry Hippos
😂
There are millions of possible moves and Kramnik is puzzled half the game as though he knows best. Isn't this Moral superiority?
these effects on the moves remind me of when the NHL put it the same thing on the puck so moron could follow the game.
Niemann’s eyes 👀
100
yet no one here saying a damn thing about it.
seems to me that niemann has just his way of thinkung... 1:1 live interaction might offer kramnik a glimpse of niemann thinking... just to be accepted
I mean, he's playing a former world champion, I can forgive him a few slower moves.
Hans is an outlier ie plays _unusual moves_ - it doesn't make him a cheater.
What are you talking about, we already know he's a cheater. That has already been established, if he was cheating here is anyones guess though.
@@softan Never been proved simpleton - only based on his admission years ago in a couple of games....never cheated OTB.....pray tell....how could he...
My impression White lost the game; Black didn't force a win. Black endgame maneuvers were to get a feel for position before committing his play.
what I found odd was that niemann looked up and to his left before most of his moves.
He's reading chat....
confirmation bias
omg niemann moved his head!
@@FenShen-us9tv He's shifting his eyes right as he's making a move in the endgame against Kramnik? Rightttt...I'm not sure I completely buy that.
I don’t understand why ‘professional streamers’ don’t stream a second camera so we can see their computer screen and desk! That along with getting rid of the headset would eliminate any suspicion of cheating from all of them!
No it wouldn't. People would just start saying he's getting the info through an earpiece, or a device placed in his shoe, or...of course...anal beads.
i think big vlad and the moke are on good terms now , he posted in his bio that he never meant to accuse hans and invited him to levitov chess week to which hans couldn't go but the met later in switzerland and hans posted a puzzle he got from kramnik, agadmator even has a video hinting at their reconciliation.
th-cam.com/video/o8-YZuEW804/w-d-xo.html
Thanks a lot for the info! Ah the old classic again, "I wasn't accusing, merely found it 'interesting'!"
@@epicchess2021 He took 5 seconds instead of playing the clearly obvious best move in 1 seconds, thats how I Kramnik who always knows the clearly best move somehow ended up losing and in more time trouble than him.
Surely mathematicians would agree that this is very very interesting!
Only one player makes many GM immediatly think he cheats.
No one ever accused Fisher or Magnus of cheating, that's because syper GM know.
Goat's intuition and gut feeling not wrong,dont want to hear anymore about hans ,cheater.
I would say Kramnick is just an ancient player, unsportsmanlike.
Hans is a SUPER OBVIOUS CHEATER! Anybody into Hans is actually anti-chess.
nice bait
Hans eyes perma flicking top left looking for answers. If you knew you were innocent you would have checkmated him in one in second game.
Chess players seem to make alot of accusations simply because a move by their opponent doesn't make sense to them. Ridiculuous. I saw nothing suspicious here.
Kramnik is becoming the laughing stalk of chess
Kramnik recklessly accuses a lot of players of cheating to now include Hikaru Nakamura, Hans Niemen, and Veselin Topalov...
i suggest watching some c-squared analysis of the kid`s gameplay....featuring Fabio btw....some moves proof the kid`s utter lack of basic theory- either he is lucky beyond beleif or a cheat.
It looks like a lot of these supposedly suspicious moves are just Niemann trying to run down his opponents clock. At least to me they look like moves that don't matter and that he will just move back from, but he knows that his opponent hasn't thought much about those moves. So he spends a few seconds whenever he decides there isn't an obvious move to better his position, looks for a meaningless move, and then let's his opponent waste time thinking about the implications of that move. Sounds like a decent strategy against grandmasters.
It's basically what we see Magnus doing quite often, the difference is just that Magnus is better or just as good on a physical board. I think Niemann plays digitally all the time and mentally isn't used to playing on a physical board, so his mind lags just a tiny bit behind. Think of it like if you are used to reading ebooks and then read a physical book or vice versa. It's the same thing, it just feels off. But people are suspicious because it is the same thing, so you would think he should be just as good.
0:09 serial killer vibes
So Hans plays a few moves " out of the box" and Kramnik finds it suspicious ! Lighten up man , it is only a game !Perhaps he does not want to end up hating the game like Bobby Fischer .
If I was Kramnik I'd be embarrassed as well.
I,m so glad Kramnik got Hikaru.. was about time
Time for all streamers to have split screen with go pro for one screen sp we can see what they are seeing in real time. First to do this will be ballers
Hans Niemann is actually the best chess player in the world and this is why Magnus is so scared of him.
I’m a Hans fan ngl, but even I was perplexed at how slow Hans was at making moves even a “bronze league chess gumby” like me would make almost instantly. I guess he had the time on the clock so was looking for some brilliancy tactics I would never see.
Nop. There was only that 1 move or you are down a piece. He had clicked his brain of at that point and waited for an answer. Notice how he almost never tells you his plans, traps or lines that might happen...because he have no clue what's going on once he turns to the engine. I promise you 100% Hans is cheating. Don't be a fanboy, you gonna get egg on your face for that soon.
@@donranewe believe in proof.
I would love to know how you do on the board?
Were you feeding the moves to computer after going back in time for that delayed minutes.
You also had invisibility cloak to go to him in wisper in his ears the move. 😅😅😅
Hans plays some very strange moves
Suspicious
Kramnik pulling a Fischer lol
What would be Kramnik's thoughts regarding Fisher's 6-0 6-0 in the Candidates ?
I don't know if hans cheated or not,thats between him and God,but I think its very childish of Kramnik to think that everyone thats not making the same moves as me in a match is cheating😂were all different,have different brains,were not damn robots
Notice on the moves that Kramnik questions, Hans pretends to be UNSURE of what to play - hovering with his mouse.
Because he waits for the engine answer. Is that too hard of a concept ?
Or he's pretending to calculate / decide.@@donrane
@@kevinriley2261Or he's actually calculating/deciding.