As a former Trane factory technician & now an instructor I use this video to instruct my students. It works very well as a lesson to students on why the internet is not the best source of training information . I use actual Trane instructional materials & have the student select the proper procedure vs.the service procedures demonstrated here . It never ceases to amaze me about how mis-information becomes fact. I must commend the man for his willingness to teach the uninformed..
Johnny rainbow #1)exactly, this guy bashes Trane because he lacks knowledge. There's plenty of reasons that heat section is designed that way. #2) the draft motor issue has nothing to do with the relay(like you said at the end)...it's an internal short inside the motor. There is a retrofit kit to add a contactor to prevent future issues. He needs to start installing that. #3) need to take an amp reading on the HSI. Saying it is "hot" is inconclusive. #4) I suggest the company pay for him to go to Lacrosse, WI for more Trane-ing.
Flashy-flash on the RTRM means you've got a fault.. that's the terminology in the Trane reliatel IOM, right? Flashy-flash? If not it should be. I like it
Love the Am Std units, to test the heat exchanger I tape over the gas air mixture holes, remove the panel holding on the screens, duct tape them closed cut a slit one at a time and stick the tubing from my Magnehelic gauge on each tube, this will even tell you which tube is open when the indoor blower is energized. You can measure the severity of the hole.
Thanks for taking us along Greg. You need to rig up a magbase for the cam and stick it on the unit while you work. Looks like that ignition board is generating some heat in the upper left corner as well... Colin ;-)
Greg, Another great video. Having been a service tech myself, all-be-it another industry, it's great to see you work and see how quickly you diagnose the problem. Once you know a brand of unit and all the "tricks" they like to play makes working on them a lot easier. Ah . . . the smell of burnt motor windings! There is no other smell like it in the world! One sniff and you know the motor is toast . . . literally! Thanks for allowing us to watch a great HVAC tech in action. Have a good one . . . and stay warm! Dave
A lot of us are still learning, I’ve been doing it for 3 years and I don’t understand stuff like this until I see it on TH-cam or my boss explains it to me
Thanks for another episode of a day in the life. I really enjoy these, along with your others. Your experience really pays off when it comes to diagnostics. Great job!
Work on these nearly every day. One other thing I like to do is check and adjust manifold pressure (negative on these particular units ) because I have seen discrepancies in motor rpm enough to change firing rate as well as ignition issues. Love your vids dude. I keep saying I should document all the horrors I see on the job hehe.
Inducer motor will be stuck running due to transit voltage on off cycle shorting out the motor internally next time you install new motor you can buy a isolation relay kit to fix that problem.
Thanks you for all that explanation! I have a few units exactly like these that I service and never understood why they where like that! It's my first year in commercial
Great video, I remember those draft inducer motors using a centrifugal switch to prove they were running, that switch ended up being a common service call.
Most of the newer units got away with that. What would happen is the motor would be fine, but the squirrel cage would be disintegrated. The switch would close, but there would be no draft and the unit would fire and on a good day would trip the roll out switch and on a bad day fry all of the wiring near the burner rack. The newer units have some sort of air proof switch via a vaccum switch. The super old Tranes used to have a micro switch with a metal flag on the outlet of the draft motor. The air would hit the flag and close the switch.
Great video Greg, considering you were working with one hand behind your back. Excellent detail and explanations along the way And you made short work of it. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for letting us look over your shoulder on this repair. It is fascinating to watch a craftsman at the top of his profession handle a repair job. Fred
good video dude. I like working on trane units as far as the heating goes. I personally think its easier to work on. however it is a pain in the ass when you have to only get parts from trane to get them working. also love your fuel impact
Love the impact wrench. Hate Trane's stupid glow coil ignition and enclosed heat exchangers. Although they did change them up on some of the newer units to a normal burner rack. Their control boards still suck though. Worst in the industry in my opinion. Especially those fan speed controllers in the newer variable speed direct drive blower units.
+Halligan142 Kind of beg the differ on that, Hot surface [glow plug] ignition as actually been widely used in household gas burning furnaces and ovens for quite some time, I don't think it's something that Trane just came up with however most package units i guest have spark ignition but i also guest there's ones that buck the trend as well
+hdyudu Talking about in a commercial setting. Trane is the only mainstream package unit maker that uses HSI. When they fail the stupid screws holding them in always strip. I've also gotten many igniters broken in the box. I always check now. Spark ignitors rarely go bad. The ignition control yes, but rarely the igniter itself.
***** I think their coming out with more better made HSI glow plugs now then when that make of unit came out more tougher heating element coil material probably, Spark ignition also has a few wear and tear disadvantages it self one of them is sometime the spark plug kind of like ones you see in an internal combustion engine can warp from age or get soot coated so it's longer able to produce a hot enough arc to light the burner i found this out on the old furnace i had before we change it out with an up to date unit
the outlet pressure on Voyagers I believe are the same for lp BUT tHE SPUD REQUIRES REPLACEMENT AND POSSIBLY THE GAS VALVE SPRINGS. some DO, SOME DONT. hAVE TO HIT UP tRANE DEALER TO BE SURE. iT SHOULD BE ON THE DATA TAG. vOYAGER UNIT ARE DIFFERENT. wITH NAT GAS ITS -.20. The motor IDM running during the summer is because its a 208V motor and the control only breaks one side, so if it has a grounded winding, it runs on 120V In the beginning season I sometimes have to break the small rust spot on the bearing from sitting all summer on the IDM, after that it usually runs another year or two before it eventually dies. Some of the Fasco motors have oiler ports, most never oil them.
Hi, Trane doesn't have a so good reputation here in Canada too. Taking your customer hostage for service is a very sour practice... Mostly if they count on bad design to make a living. Cheers.
I think that you should of atleast ohm out the windings in the motor for open line and tested cap. Would of told the tale of what wrong with the motor.
Trane has a major flaw in that IDM circuit.. that T2 (large transformer) has NO secondary fuse protection which powers up that IDM ... so ive seen that IDM short out so bad it blew the windings of that transformer as well as melted the wire harness so bad I had to replace the entire wire harness of the unit as well as the transformer only thing I did was install a secondary fuse for it so that would save the transformer
I have one that draft motor is good gas valve is good glo plug is good but will not fire? gas vale putting out about 4.0 w.c it will energize for about 5 sec then go off but it will never fire?
Even if the glow-plug is getting hot it may not be getting hot enough to fire. Smell the exhaust coming from the heat exchanger when it tries to fire. If you smell gas then the glow plug is not lighting it. If you don't smell gas then your valve is bad or the screen behind the draft motor is plugged solid.
Great video interesting, I was wondering why the unit shutoff so fast if it was jumped out calling for heat did a safety trip like the flame sensor or something else? Thanks for posting I like your machinist videos as well wish I knew half of what you know lol.
Whats funny is that some people hate Trane.... but love Goodman etc.... Im not a die hard Trane fan but they make some rock solid larger commercial HVAC equipment! And companies like Goodman and anything from Noradyne are terrible pieces of trash!
If you're talking about the two terminals labeled test just look on the inside cover next to the schematic. It's all explained there. Basically if you jump the two terminals together the unit will cycle through a predetermined series of modes. I.E. 1st stage cooling 2nd stage cooling 1st stage heat etc. for a predetermined amount of time. If you want the unit to stay on a certain mode just disconnect the jumper and the unit will stay in that mode.
Noor h could be several things . #1 check your vent cap . its on your rooftop 😣 . pressure swicth is not closing . something is bblocking that fan from pushing air out .thats one thing . #2 igniter might be loose and \ or out of line causing igniter to draw awayy from flame port . #3 pressure switch can go bad too.
Great video!! I got a question 4 you. I replaced tons of these draftmotors. Some of them were running when the unit was a cooling as you mentioned, I did not replace the board because trane told me it was actually the motor and in fact when I replace the motor the new one would not run only if you put it in heat. Do you have any idea why? They told me that the motor sends a signal to the board that it needs to run and the relay clicks and you have your 208v and makes the motor run. And yeah everytime I change them because they are running all the time, the new one dont do it and works fine. At first I thought it was the board but truly is not. Im sure is the motor but I dont know why, You have anything to help me understand , thank you.
Hrm, The older units that did not have an ignition board, just a main board used to have an external relay that powered the blower. I know the motor is 2 speed and usually it's the high speed that goes. Next time i'm at one I'll have a look at the schematic and see what's going on there. Also next time I have a motor die I'll crack it open. From what they're saying I'd expect the motor to have some sort of electronics in it. I don't know since I've never had one open, but I know that if it is in there you can't see it from the outside.
+Ryan Booth Yes. The temperature swing between 1st and 2nd stage is usually only a couple degrees so I'd rather run both compressors for less time to cool the building than 1 compressor for longer. It's a personal preference and each building is different. Most of these restaurants are older and have been remodeled multiple times adding more equipment and screwing with the heat load so a lot of these units should actually be bigger than they are. The newer buildings that are correctly sized we leave alone.
Electrical circuits and componants were taught as part of my class in highschool, The best thing you can do is learn how to read a wiring diagram and ladder schematic. Those will be your best friends in figuring out control circuits. Also learn basic controls, like what a low pressure, high pressure, temp, and limit controls do and how contactors work. Most of the rest will come with experience.
Why was there so much rust in the exhausts ? Is that from the heat exchanger ? That unit can't be that old - why don't they use a corrosion resistant steel or even a moderately corrosion resistant steel. A new heat exchanger must cost an arm and a leg!
The unit is 7 years old. The heat exchanger is made from galvanized steel, but due to the by products of combustion the condensation is slightly acidic which definitely doesn't help.
As a former Trane factory technician & now an instructor I use this video to instruct my students.
It works very well as a lesson to students on why the internet is not the best source of training information . I use actual Trane instructional materials & have the student select the proper procedure vs.the service procedures demonstrated here . It never ceases to amaze me about how mis-information becomes fact. I must commend the man for his willingness to teach the uninformed..
Yes, all you trane techs are so extremely sophisticated. Proper procedures are a must!
Johnny rainbow #1)exactly, this guy bashes Trane because he lacks knowledge. There's plenty of reasons that heat section is designed that way.
#2) the draft motor issue has nothing to do with the relay(like you said at the end)...it's an internal short inside the motor. There is a retrofit kit to add a contactor to prevent future issues. He needs to start installing that.
#3) need to take an amp reading on the HSI. Saying it is "hot" is inconclusive.
#4) I suggest the company pay for him to go to Lacrosse, WI for more Trane-ing.
Johnny rainbow what did he do wrong?
Flashy-flash on the RTRM means you've got a fault.. that's the terminology in the Trane reliatel IOM, right? Flashy-flash? If not it should be. I like it
Love the Am Std units, to test the heat exchanger I tape over the gas air mixture holes, remove the panel holding on the screens, duct tape them closed cut a slit one at a time and stick the tubing from my Magnehelic gauge on each tube, this will even tell you which tube is open when the indoor blower is energized. You can measure the severity of the hole.
Thanks for taking us along Greg. You need to rig up a magbase for the cam and stick it on the unit while you work.
Looks like that ignition board is generating some heat in the upper left corner as well...
Colin ;-)
***** ***** Yes, a magbase, or a headband mount!
Time to drop some Christmas present hints.
They all get those heat marks. Some sort of resistor I'm guessing. Writing up the list for santa this week :-)
Yup, looks like those resistors in the corner are dissipating quite a bit of heat. Can't be good long term..... ;-)
Greg,
Another great video. Having been a service tech myself, all-be-it another industry, it's great to see you work and see how quickly you diagnose the problem. Once you know a brand of unit and all the "tricks" they like to play makes working on them a lot easier. Ah . . . the smell of burnt motor windings! There is no other smell like it in the world! One sniff and you know the motor is toast . . . literally! Thanks for allowing us to watch a great HVAC tech in action.
Have a good one . . . and stay warm!
Dave
I had forgotten that there are competent HVAC techs in this world.
There are a few around :-)
A lot of us are still learning, I’ve been doing it for 3 years and I don’t understand stuff like this until I see it on TH-cam or my boss explains it to me
Thanks for another episode of a day in the life. I really enjoy these, along with your others. Your experience really pays off when it comes to diagnostics. Great job!
Work on these nearly every day. One other thing I like to do is check and adjust manifold pressure (negative on these particular units ) because I have seen discrepancies in motor rpm enough to change firing rate as well as ignition issues. Love your vids dude. I keep saying I should document all the horrors I see on the job hehe.
Thanks for an excellent overview of the unit for those of us not familiar with that model. Great video!
Inducer motor will be stuck running due to transit voltage on off cycle shorting out the motor internally next time you install new motor you can buy a isolation relay kit to fix that problem.
Thanks you for all that explanation! I have a few units exactly like these that I service and never understood why they where like that! It's my first year in commercial
Great video, I remember those draft inducer motors using a centrifugal switch to prove they were running, that switch ended up being a common service call.
Most of the newer units got away with that. What would happen is the motor would be fine, but the squirrel cage would be disintegrated. The switch would close, but there would be no draft and the unit would fire and on a good day would trip the roll out switch and on a bad day fry all of the wiring near the burner rack. The newer units have some sort of air proof switch via a vaccum switch. The super old Tranes used to have a micro switch with a metal flag on the outlet of the draft motor. The air would hit the flag and close the switch.
Great video Greg, considering you were working with one hand behind your back. Excellent detail and explanations along the way And you made short work of it. Thanks for sharing!
Great video. I have changed a bunch of the motors and the relays. Trane makes a ton of money on those parts.
Yup. At over $400 for the draft motor when I can get one from Lennox for $100
I really enjoyed this video. Keep em coming!
Thanks for letting us look over your shoulder on this repair. It is fascinating to watch a craftsman at the top of his profession handle a repair job. Fred
Great show brother!
Outstanding video!
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing.
Never liked train my self....Its hard to stop a train.
You do pretty good for one handed............
Ivansgarage it's Trane...not train. Trane makes very high quality, serviceable units. Halligan142 needs more knowledge and he would understand.
love this kind of video.
Awesome video. tend to learn alot from your videos. Keep it up,thanks!
Let the heating calls begin!! Haha
Good to see you doing what I subscribed up for again.
good video dude. I like working on trane units as far as the heating goes. I personally think its easier to work on. however it is a pain in the ass when you have to only get parts from trane to get them working. also love your fuel impact
Love the impact wrench. Hate Trane's stupid glow coil ignition and enclosed heat exchangers. Although they did change them up on some of the newer units to a normal burner rack. Their control boards still suck though. Worst in the industry in my opinion. Especially those fan speed controllers in the newer variable speed direct drive blower units.
***** hahaha keep up the good work. Take care
+Halligan142 Kind of beg the differ on that, Hot surface [glow plug] ignition as actually been widely used in household gas burning furnaces and ovens for quite some time, I don't think it's something that Trane just came up with however most package units i guest have spark ignition but i also guest there's ones that buck the trend as well
+hdyudu
Talking about in a commercial setting. Trane is the only mainstream package unit maker that uses HSI. When they fail the stupid screws holding them in always strip. I've also gotten many igniters broken in the box. I always check now. Spark ignitors rarely go bad. The ignition control yes, but rarely the igniter itself.
*****
I think their coming out with more better made HSI glow plugs now then when that make of unit came out more tougher heating element coil material probably, Spark ignition also has a few wear and tear disadvantages it self one of them is sometime the spark plug kind of like ones you see in an internal combustion engine can warp from age or get soot coated so it's longer able to produce a hot enough arc to light the burner i found this out on the old furnace i had before we change it out with an up to date unit
Greg, Nice Job, Enjoy your channel
another great video!!!!!!
good info, thanks for the video
the outlet pressure on Voyagers I believe are the same for lp BUT tHE SPUD REQUIRES REPLACEMENT AND POSSIBLY THE GAS VALVE SPRINGS. some DO, SOME DONT. hAVE TO HIT UP tRANE DEALER TO BE SURE. iT SHOULD BE ON THE DATA TAG. vOYAGER UNIT ARE DIFFERENT. wITH NAT GAS ITS -.20. The motor IDM running during the summer is because its a 208V motor and the control only breaks one side, so if it has a grounded winding, it runs on 120V
In the beginning season I sometimes have to break the small rust spot on the bearing from sitting all summer on the IDM, after that it usually runs another year or two before it eventually dies. Some of the Fasco motors have oiler ports, most never oil them.
We throw some WD-40 in the motors during the spring PM. Helps keep the moisture out. We do the same with condenser fan motors during fall PM's.
No cap check?
Those IDM use to be wired 230v constant, then they put relay in to kill power.
Had problems with a similar trane unit over here in the uk. 3 week wait for a PCB. And an over complicated control circuit
Superb!
Hi, Trane doesn't have a so good reputation here in Canada too. Taking your customer hostage for service is a very sour practice... Mostly if they count on bad design to make a living.
Cheers.
I think that you should of atleast ohm out the windings in the motor for open line and tested cap. Would of told the tale of what wrong with the motor.
Exactly my thoughts
What is the motor running but making noise? And there no heat at all
Hi, very nice video.
Trane has a major flaw in that IDM circuit.. that T2 (large transformer) has NO secondary fuse protection which powers up that IDM ... so ive seen that IDM short out so bad it blew the windings of that transformer as well as melted the wire harness so bad I had to replace the entire wire harness of the unit as well as the transformer only thing I did was install a secondary fuse for it so that would save the transformer
I have one that draft motor is good gas valve is good glo plug is good but will not fire? gas vale putting out about 4.0 w.c it will energize for about 5 sec then go off but it will never fire?
Even if the glow-plug is getting hot it may not be getting hot enough to fire. Smell the exhaust coming from the heat exchanger when it tries to fire. If you smell gas then the glow plug is not lighting it. If you don't smell gas then your valve is bad or the screen behind the draft motor is plugged solid.
it was the gas valve!
thereceman glad you got it worked out
thereceman I thought supply gas pressure was supposed to be slightly negative due to inducer draw
Great video interesting, I was wondering why the unit shutoff so fast if it was jumped out calling for heat did a safety trip like the flame sensor or something else? Thanks for posting I like your machinist videos as well wish I knew half of what you know lol.
Whats funny is that some people hate Trane.... but love Goodman etc.... Im not a die hard Trane fan but they make some rock solid larger commercial HVAC equipment! And companies like Goodman and anything from Noradyne are terrible pieces of trash!
Seems like it would be hard to block all the registers going into the building to see if you had a cracked heat exchanger.
+Chad Tinsley
Don't need to. Block the airflow at the outlet of the unit with a piece of sheet metal or a large cardboard box screwed to it.
Kool
You should get a go pro so you can use both your hands. Although it is pretty impressive doing a lot of that one-handed lol.
Hey nice video does Trane have a trouble shooting guide ..
Regarding the test pin 1/2 what's the procedure to test the pins
If you're talking about the two terminals labeled test just look on the inside cover next to the schematic. It's all explained there. Basically if you jump the two terminals together the unit will cycle through a predetermined series of modes. I.E. 1st stage cooling 2nd stage cooling 1st stage heat etc. for a predetermined amount of time. If you want the unit to stay on a certain mode just disconnect the jumper and the unit will stay in that mode.
Good video. Do you know what the inlet and outlet gas pressures should be for LP on Trane voyager rtus? Thanks, Jeff
To be honest I have no idea. I work on Natural Gas only.
Use the test mode
Checkmate 199LD why?
NEED HELP MY UNIT HEAT DOESNT KICK ON WHILE MOTOR IS RUNNING IGNITER IS GLOWING WHAT DO I DO
Noor h could be several things . #1 check your vent cap . its on your rooftop 😣 . pressure swicth is not closing . something is bblocking that fan from pushing air out .thats one thing . #2 igniter might be loose and \ or out of line causing igniter to draw awayy from flame port . #3 pressure switch can go bad too.
Great video!! I got a question 4 you. I replaced tons of these draftmotors. Some of them were running when the unit was a cooling as you mentioned, I did not replace the board because trane told me it was actually the motor and in fact when I replace the motor the new one would not run only if you put it in heat. Do you have any idea why? They told me that the motor sends a signal to the board that it needs to run and the relay clicks and you have your 208v and makes the motor run. And yeah everytime I change them because they are running all the time, the new one dont do it and works fine. At first I thought it was the board but truly is not. Im sure is the motor but I dont know why, You have anything to help me understand , thank you.
Hrm, The older units that did not have an ignition board, just a main board used to have an external relay that powered the blower. I know the motor is 2 speed and usually it's the high speed that goes. Next time i'm at one I'll have a look at the schematic and see what's going on there. Also next time I have a motor die I'll crack it open. From what they're saying I'd expect the motor to have some sort of electronics in it. I don't know since I've never had one open, but I know that if it is in there you can't see it from the outside.
so far I know not hvac tech that likes tranes. I guess there hvac engineers never talks to techs.
great-video-but-should-get-a-go-pro-cam-u-can-whereon-head-and-have-free-hands
I noticed Y1 jumped to Y2 on the control board terminal block. Is it common practice to use a two stage unit as a single stage unit?
+Ryan Booth
Yes. The temperature swing between 1st and 2nd stage is usually only a couple degrees so I'd rather run both compressors for less time to cool the building than 1 compressor for longer. It's a personal preference and each building is different. Most of these restaurants are older and have been remodeled multiple times adding more equipment and screwing with the heat load so a lot of these units should actually be bigger than they are. The newer buildings that are correctly sized we leave alone.
+Halligan142 Bad idea in the south, short cycling shoots your humidity sky high...
hey, im new in the trade. any troubleshooting tips for someone just trying to get the hang of things? How did you learn electrical ??
Electrical circuits and componants were taught as part of my class in highschool, The best thing you can do is learn how to read a wiring diagram and ladder schematic. Those will be your best friends in figuring out control circuits. Also learn basic controls, like what a low pressure, high pressure, temp, and limit controls do and how contactors work. Most of the rest will come with experience.
And a new fan motor was £1300
That's a big hit in the wallet.
The negative press gas valve is also a pain
more like a pile of scrap stupid design unit
Why was there so much rust in the exhausts ? Is that from the heat exchanger ?
That unit can't be that old - why don't they use a corrosion resistant steel or even a moderately corrosion resistant steel. A new heat exchanger must cost an arm and a leg!
The unit is 7 years old. The heat exchanger is made from galvanized steel, but due to the by products of combustion the condensation is slightly acidic which definitely doesn't help.
They couldn't use ferritic stainless steel - it might last too long !