Lol such a big but respectable eff you 😂 only time I ever use the forward assist is after press checking a dirty gun and that’s it. No other reason, like the man said, you can be making a little malfunction into a real problem without first checking the chamber
@@CharlesLandell25he had a rare case of it working and even then it would’ve taken just as much time to rack the charging handle. useless device that just makes 99% of jams worse. eugene stoner himself says this in these tapes and talks about how they had to manufacture a reason to need the forward assist
As an engineer myself, I really enjoy watching and listening to Eugene discuss the development of the AR rifles. You can just feel how proud he is of his designs. He's a firearm genius in many ways like John Browning.
That's what made the Stoner 63 design so ingenious... it's like firing a .22lr at 600 rnds/min. Perfect recoil management system. I've seen one shot single handed and it just seems to float in the air... we should still be using the stoner 63 or this more modern derivative to this day.
@@boss350z5 The Stoner 62 / 63 was Brilliant! it's a shame the Army delibretly botched the testing, because of their feeling towards MR. Stoner, because of the AR15 they never wanted years prior, and then the Stoner 86 is just a Master Piece, i wonder if he ever thought that his Stoner62/63 would be selling in the 2020's for $60,000-$70,000 dollars....WOW!
@@boss350z5 Oh my gosh, mine as well, but if so i better add on the cost of the Divorce to boot....LOL...LOL AMERICA STRONG STAY FREE LONG LIVE THE REPUBLIC
Nah even the military (Army I believe) issued a burst limiter redesign invitation almost immediately after it was officially adopted 🤣 the A2 had better handguards and a stronger (but sadly longer) stock, otherwise it was pretty misguided... the barrel profile needed a little adjusting, but should've been focused on better heat tolerance and harmonics, instead of worrying about tight sling shooting at camp perry and bayonet training, and the sights are fantastic target sights... so basically everything Stoner pointed out as a negative was proven to be spot on 😄
The army was all set to switch over to the XM8 rifle from Heckler Koch back in 2005. Better, lighter, cheaper, etc. but that switch-over never happened. Now the army says they are about to adopt an all-new 6.8 mm cartridge with a new rifle to fire it. Supposedly everything is in "testing" right now. May the testing process be better than the one that gave us the M-16 to begin with.
I fucking love how much MR. Stoner hated the Forward assist button he called the (General Wheeler Button) so it is on the AR's of today because of a General that didnt a thing about it, all because the man who was demonstrating the Forward assist, bent rounds with pliers, so it was just bent enough to not go in the chamber, but not enough so the forward assist couldnt shove it in there and fire it, thats 100% a gimmick! if the gun wont go in to battery, typically you dont want to force it in and then have a stuck bolt on your hands or something even worse than a bent round, the Army really screwed MR. Stoner in quite a few ways! it really is pathetic to think about, when the Legend MR. Stoner was there to quite literally save their lives!
after hearing the Kyle Rittenhouse story I feel like we finally have a justification for the forward assist button which did in fact save his life that night
@@tlshortyshorty5810The forward assist did not save his life. Had he been using an old Colt 604 or another version before the FA was installed, he easily could've solved the problem by either pulling the charging handle and chambering a new round or using the indent on the bolt carrier group to push the bolt forward as Mr. Stoner had intended. Neither action would've taken any more time than the forward assist, and would've had a greatly reduced chance for causing a larger malfunction than what had already occurred. Kyle Rittenhouse should count himself lucky his rifle didn't jam after he used the forward assist.
Eugene Stoner Products: Ejecting stuff into the next county since 1956. That's one of two kinds of stoner culture I can stand behind. Very interesting tapes, thank you for sharing!
It did get used in Vietnam, but only by the Navy Seals, who predictably, loved the thing and thought it was the bee's knees. The army tested it but they had bigger problems at the time, like just getting the M16 to function, in the hands of millions of reluctant troops, that only wanted to be a thousand miles away from where they were.
Funny thing is, that was common parlance back in the day. If you look at old copies of gun magazines from the 60's to the 80's even manufacturers would advertise that their firearm came with 3 extra clips. This whole "proper jargon" push really came about in the 90's in response to depictions of firearms being used in an inappropriate manner. With the government heavily pushing gun control, in part because of these depictions, legal gun owners moved to separate themselves from that crowd by using different language. In other words, we don't call it a clip anymore because people who use firearms illegally call it a clip, to legal gun owners it's a magazine, the correct term.
Damn. That 3 round burst is really a s**tty system. Why doesn't it reset to 3 rounds every time. I'm unfamiliar with the mechanism so I'm speculating. That seems really dangerous. And not knowing how many rounds will be fired seems absolutely incomprehesable to my firearms training and non-tactical experiences. The military needed Stoner to tell them how Stupid that system was. I'll bet they didn't ask him until after it was decided. Was it to save money on ammunition and logistics? A round of 5.56 is an infinitesimal drop in the bucket compared to every thing the military does. I was a physician in the US from 1984-1991. I shot expert on the basic ½ day pistol course with a .38 caliber revolver in ~1988-89. On my only familiarization with the AR-15 we used .22LR instead of 5.56. That probably saved enough money for a few seconds of an F-16 on full afterburner burning 2-3 gallons per second. For an F-15? Double it. The F-16 on full afterburner with full internal fuel 7200 pounds or ~1080 US gallons will be empty in 9 minutes. That's why we used .22LR instead of 5.56. Military priorities.
It wasn't for logistical reasons. It was honestly just a flawed design. It's sort of a triple cam mechanism. Depending on which position it is in during its cycle it can shoot only 1 or 2 rounds instead of the intended 3. It also affects the trigger pull in semi. You have 3 slightly different trigger pulls depending on where it is in the cycle.
@@Anonymous8421 Thanks for the explanation. I had read bad things about the 3 round burst system starting ~25 years ago(?). In gun magazines and SOF magazine, ShotgunNews, etc. I had no idea it was such a horrible design. Thanks for filling in this information. It was way worse than I thought.
3 round burst was designed as a crutch to increase hit probability, the thought being that the 3rd Round would leave the chamber before the recoil impulse of the first bullet had you off target, in reality it burns ammo 3x faster than semi auto and does absolutely nothing for acquiring a target, getting actual sights lined up on target and staying on target so in practice it does nothing for hot probability.
@@samoksner It was more a training crutch for full auto controllability, even with a pretty controllable rifle like the M16 it still take practice and technique to make full auto useful. The SALVO guns and later projects were built around the hyper burst concept you describe, the burst on the A2 was just there to keep an undertrained troop from spraying and praying, while still retaining some auto capacity. They would have been better off just blocking it to semi.
@@samoksner It wasn't designed as a crutch to increase hit probability. They never believed or intended that the 3 rounds would fire before recoil moved the shooter off target. 3 round burst was intended to deal with the issue of less trained/conscripted troops putting the gun on full auto then panic dumping a full mag in combat as they cranked on the trigger accidentally. This had happened numerous times in Vietnam with drafted troops so they wanted to address the perceived "issue" with the next iteration of the rifle. It solved nothing.
Starting at 10:45, what large-caliber weapon are they discussing that has a chamber that "oscillates in an arc-shaped cam" and "two chambers that feed one barrel" and has "about three moving parts" and a "plastic case"?
I suppose it's a revolving cannon, it functions similarly to a Gatling gun (Minigun, Vulcan, Gau-8, Etc), but with a single barrel that revolves around multiple chambers(or multiple chambers that revolve around a barrel), it can in fact have only 3 moving parts, chamber 20mm+ rounds and fire over 1000 RPM. What Stoner describes however, seems to be the above but firing caseless ammunition.
A unique feature of the Colt AR M16 was the indention for rear sight. From 100 to 800. All you have too do is count the clicks. Starting from all the way down. 1 click for 100, Then 2 more clicks for 200, 3 more clicks for 300 etc...Only the Colt rear sight would do this. All the other the ball indention would not match..
Gene was one of those guys like a car mechanic. Fix anything, running in tip top shape, problem solving. When it comes to his own cars there junk. The dude knows more than he can articulate and a brillant engineer, but not so much of a firearm handler or shooter.
@@robertmaybeth3434 Army Ordnance doesn't exactly have the best track record with weapons testing/fielding (especially Stoner designs) and once they have made their minds up about something they do and say pretty much anything (regardless of the truth) to push their point of view of pet projects.
I think you're mixing up 'assault rifle' with 'assault weapon'. Assault rifle is a legitimate term for today's infantry service rifles (so long as they are capable of automatic fire (full or burst)). Assault weapon is a term made up by the Brady Campaign to describe just about any semi-auto rifle because they have frightening features
@@jonesclantd no assault rifle also fits into a made up term. The only real “assault rifle” is the stg 43/44 since it’s nomenclature is dubbed assault rifle translated to English. You know how many assaults were executed with soldiers using an M1/2 carbine? Which is a personal defense weapon? There’s no such thing as an assault rifle or assault weapon, it is not a class of weapons
@@sendit7922 The type classification is assault rifle, even if the US didn't adopt the notion until they fielded the M16. The fact of the matter is that the M2 carbine so very nearly fits the definition of an assault rifle, that it was gun chosen to test experimental hi-velocity .22cal cartridges leading to the M16 project. Pointing out the obvious that the US was building M1/2 carbines, classifying them as pdw's, and using them on assaults is just pedantry. The fact is the term exists and it's been in use since the 60's and 70's as a direct nod to the STG44 and it's characteristics that everyone uses. It neatly categorizes attributes of modern infantry service rifles in general size, type of feed, caliber, and employment. It is not anymore a "made up term" than "machine gun" or "submachine gun" or "sidearm".
@@sendit7922 Did you just blow in from stupid town? "Assault Rifle" is the correct type classification for the M16A2, and it is universally accepted among military, history, and design circles alike. An assault rifle is typically defined by being a rifle that is select-fire, and uses intermediate cartridges for lower recoil and lighter ammunition. M16's, HK33's, AK47/74's, FAMAS', etc are ALL assault rifles. And yes, it would be correct to retroactively classify the M2 Carbine as an assault rifle. You should probably read up on these histories before trying to act as an authority on them.
![[TH] VALORANT Champions Seoul - Semi-Final - SEN vs TH](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/IewhVY9cAmQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Eugene looking back while palming the forward assist is my favorite thing
Still cannot imagine a scenario where you’d need such a device
@@GodisGood584ask Kyle Rittenhouse.
Lol such a big but respectable eff you 😂 only time I ever use the forward assist is after press checking a dirty gun and that’s it. No other reason, like the man said, you can be making a little malfunction into a real problem without first checking the chamber
@@CharlesLandell25he had a rare case of it working and even then it would’ve taken just as much time to rack the charging handle. useless device that just makes 99% of jams worse. eugene stoner himself says this in these tapes and talks about how they had to manufacture a reason to need the forward assist
He hated that thing.😂 it's a symbol that the army gets what it wants whether it's good or not.
As an engineer myself, I really enjoy watching and listening to Eugene discuss the development of the AR rifles. You can just feel how proud he is of his designs. He's a firearm genius in many ways like John Browning.
He manned his Stoner baby like a champ. Impressive recoil control.
That's what made the Stoner 63 design so ingenious... it's like firing a .22lr at 600 rnds/min. Perfect recoil management system. I've seen one shot single handed and it just seems to float in the air... we should still be using the stoner 63 or this more modern derivative to this day.
Just rippin' the rounds out like nothin'.
@@boss350z5 The Stoner 62 / 63 was Brilliant! it's a shame the Army delibretly botched the testing, because of their feeling towards MR. Stoner, because of the AR15 they never wanted years prior, and then the Stoner 86 is just a Master Piece, i wonder if he ever thought that his Stoner62/63 would be selling in the 2020's for $60,000-$70,000 dollars....WOW!
@@leadhead7338 Amen... it's a bucket list item for me... the 63 specifically.
@@boss350z5 Oh my gosh, mine as well, but if so i better add on the cost of the Divorce to boot....LOL...LOL
AMERICA STRONG
STAY FREE
LONG LIVE THE REPUBLIC
When Gene grinned and hit the Foreword bolt assist 😂classic
A burn from him, straight to General Wheeler, whom demanded it was on there
A great man, highly intelligent.
LOL notice how he immediately fires 2 rounds when he kicks it to burst. Had to have been intentional just to keep pointing out the A2 flaws.
Nah even the military (Army I believe) issued a burst limiter redesign invitation almost immediately after it was officially adopted 🤣 the A2 had better handguards and a stronger (but sadly longer) stock, otherwise it was pretty misguided... the barrel profile needed a little adjusting, but should've been focused on better heat tolerance and harmonics, instead of worrying about tight sling shooting at camp perry and bayonet training, and the sights are fantastic target sights... so basically everything Stoner pointed out as a negative was proven to be spot on 😄
Read up on Col. David Lutz, aka, coldblue.
@@berryreading4809 3 round burst worthless, is about the worst number of shots to fire, MR. Stoner said for many reasons.
60 years and the AR15/M16 is still going strong. It's a testament to this man's genius.
The army was all set to switch over to the XM8 rifle from Heckler Koch back in 2005. Better, lighter, cheaper, etc. but that switch-over never happened. Now the army says they are about to adopt an all-new 6.8 mm cartridge with a new rifle to fire it. Supposedly everything is in "testing" right now.
May the testing process be better than the one that gave us the M-16 to begin with.
I fucking love how much MR. Stoner hated the Forward assist button he called the
(General Wheeler Button) so it is on the AR's of today because of a General that didnt a thing about it, all because the man who was demonstrating the Forward assist, bent rounds with pliers, so it was just bent enough to not go in the chamber, but not enough so the forward assist couldnt shove it in there and fire it, thats 100% a gimmick! if the gun wont go in to battery, typically you dont want to force it in and then have a stuck bolt on your hands or something even worse than a bent round, the Army really screwed MR. Stoner in quite a few ways! it really is pathetic to think about, when the Legend MR. Stoner was there to quite literally save their lives!
after hearing the Kyle Rittenhouse story I feel like we finally have a justification for the forward assist button which did in fact save his life that night
@kevin pierson Wouldn’t it take too much time? Plus he would lose a round
@@tlshortyshorty5810 Kevin has been real quiet since your comment hahahaha
@@tlshortyshorty5810The forward assist did not save his life. Had he been using an old Colt 604 or another version before the FA was installed, he easily could've solved the problem by either pulling the charging handle and chambering a new round or using the indent on the bolt carrier group to push the bolt forward as Mr. Stoner had intended. Neither action would've taken any more time than the forward assist, and would've had a greatly reduced chance for causing a larger malfunction than what had already occurred.
Kyle Rittenhouse should count himself lucky his rifle didn't jam after he used the forward assist.
God bless you for uploading these.
Eugene Stoner Products: Ejecting stuff into the next county since 1956. That's one of two kinds of stoner culture I can stand behind. Very interesting tapes, thank you for sharing!
That's a weapon that defends you in two directions! Bullets out the front, flashy brassy things out the sides.
4:38 His face lol
What a fuckin boss
Its Mr. Bo$$
4:21
That look says "Look at how they've massacred my boy."
Stoner's LMG just looks more efficient than the bulky M-249.
It did get used in Vietnam, but only by the Navy Seals, who predictably, loved the thing and thought it was the bee's knees. The army tested it but they had bigger problems at the time, like just getting the M16 to function, in the hands of millions of reluctant troops, that only wanted to be a thousand miles away from where they were.
Love watching stuff like that. All AK/AR bs a side just very cool to see. Thanks for uploading!
4:39 what a cheeky chappy :)
The Bren configuration is just stunning!
"Magaziieenes" 🤣
The giggling during the opening title card is because it's 4/20.
awesome!
Hey guys, thanks for tuning in to another weapon on forgotten videos
Love seeing this. Thanks algorithm
American defense hero, American defense hero.......etc etc
"defense" lmao
Stoner is genius guy.
Thank you from Manhattan ©2024
Do you think it bothered Stoner as much as me every time the “director” called the magazine, a clip? I kept wishing he would correct him!
Funny thing is, that was common parlance back in the day. If you look at old copies of gun magazines from the 60's to the 80's even manufacturers would advertise that their firearm came with 3 extra clips. This whole "proper jargon" push really came about in the 90's in response to depictions of firearms being used in an inappropriate manner. With the government heavily pushing gun control, in part because of these depictions, legal gun owners moved to separate themselves from that crowd by using different language. In other words, we don't call it a clip anymore because people who use firearms illegally call it a clip, to legal gun owners it's a magazine, the correct term.
Director was obviously trolling Stoner and he knew it.
Stoner was a former Marine (WWII) so you know what he thought every time he heard 'clip.'
Damn. That 3 round burst is really a s**tty system. Why doesn't it reset to 3 rounds every time. I'm unfamiliar with the mechanism so I'm speculating.
That seems really dangerous. And not knowing how many rounds will be fired seems absolutely incomprehesable to my firearms training and non-tactical experiences. The military needed Stoner to tell them how Stupid that system was. I'll bet they didn't ask him until after it was decided.
Was it to save money on ammunition and logistics? A round of 5.56 is an infinitesimal drop in the bucket compared to every thing the military does.
I was a physician in the US from 1984-1991. I shot expert on the basic ½ day pistol course with a .38 caliber revolver in ~1988-89. On my only familiarization with the AR-15 we used .22LR instead of 5.56. That probably saved enough money for a few seconds of an F-16 on full afterburner burning 2-3 gallons per second. For an F-15? Double it.
The F-16 on full afterburner with full internal fuel 7200 pounds or ~1080 US gallons will be empty in 9 minutes. That's why we used .22LR instead of 5.56.
Military priorities.
It wasn't for logistical reasons. It was honestly just a flawed design. It's sort of a triple cam mechanism. Depending on which position it is in during its cycle it can shoot only 1 or 2 rounds instead of the intended 3. It also affects the trigger pull in semi. You have 3 slightly different trigger pulls depending on where it is in the cycle.
@@Anonymous8421 Thanks for the explanation. I had read bad things about the 3 round burst system starting ~25 years ago(?). In gun magazines and SOF magazine, ShotgunNews, etc. I had no idea it was such a horrible design. Thanks for filling in this information. It was way worse than I thought.
3 round burst was designed as a crutch to increase hit probability, the thought being that the 3rd Round would leave the chamber before the recoil impulse of the first bullet had you off target, in reality it burns ammo 3x faster than semi auto and does absolutely nothing for acquiring a target, getting actual sights lined up on target and staying on target so in practice it does nothing for hot probability.
@@samoksner It was more a training crutch for full auto controllability, even with a pretty controllable rifle like the M16 it still take practice and technique to make full auto useful. The SALVO guns and later projects were built around the hyper burst concept you describe, the burst on the A2 was just there to keep an undertrained troop from spraying and praying, while still retaining some auto capacity. They would have been better off just blocking it to semi.
@@samoksner It wasn't designed as a crutch to increase hit probability. They never believed or intended that the 3 rounds would fire before recoil moved the shooter off target. 3 round burst was intended to deal with the issue of less trained/conscripted troops putting the gun on full auto then panic dumping a full mag in combat as they cranked on the trigger accidentally. This had happened numerous times in Vietnam with drafted troops so they wanted to address the perceived "issue" with the next iteration of the rifle. It solved nothing.
legend
Starting at 10:45, what large-caliber weapon are they discussing that has a chamber that "oscillates in an arc-shaped cam" and "two chambers that feed one barrel" and has "about three moving parts" and a "plastic case"?
I suppose it's a revolving cannon, it functions similarly to a Gatling gun (Minigun, Vulcan, Gau-8, Etc), but with a single barrel that revolves around multiple chambers(or multiple chambers that revolve around a barrel), it can in fact have only 3 moving parts, chamber 20mm+ rounds and fire over 1000 RPM.
What Stoner describes however, seems to be the above but firing caseless ammunition.
Just watch part 7
4:36 comedic relief moment
4:37 LMAO 🤣
That’s how a badass dresses for a day at the range!
A unique feature of the Colt AR M16 was the indention for rear sight. From 100 to 800. All you have too do is count the clicks. Starting from all the way down. 1 click for 100, Then 2 more clicks for 200, 3 more clicks for 300 etc...Only the Colt rear sight would do this. All the other the ball indention would not match..
Gene was one of those guys like a car mechanic. Fix anything, running in tip top shape, problem solving. When it comes to his own cars there junk. The dude knows more than he can articulate and a brillant engineer, but not so much of a firearm handler or shooter.
Lollol imagine getting a hidden photograph of Eugene Stoner locking his keys in his car...
I just wanted to see if Stoner slapped the bolt release like a man does or pressed it with his thumb like a commie.
You're such a funny little guy
@@ryantogo8359 if you press the bolt release with your thumb, you read Karl Marx. Facts.
@@codyprice4592 no argument from me lol
@@codyprice4592 Reading Marx is one thing, believing in Marx is another. If you never read Marx you can never truly know your enemy.
@@codyprice4592You need to read Marx so that you are best prepared in explaining to Marxist (who commonly have never read Marx) why he was an idiot.
Eugene Stoner, a great genius engineer in American history. We must remember him
10:47 was he chatting about a minigun? probably what we saw in Terminator :P
The LAMG is about 100 times better than the M249 its ridiculous that it wasn't adopted.
The army tested it some, but felt it was too complicated for ordinary troops and too quick to jam from dirt.
@@robertmaybeth3434 Army Ordnance doesn't exactly have the best track record with weapons testing/fielding (especially Stoner designs) and once they have made their minds up about something they do and say pretty much anything (regardless of the truth) to push their point of view of pet projects.
You guys can just leave all that stuff on the range; I'll clean it up ;)
4:38
No Reddit finger. Based
Who’s here from DB Instagram?
Kind of annoyed that Ezell called it an assault rifle…why would a friend of the gun community call it by a made up name of the enemy?
I think you're mixing up 'assault rifle' with 'assault weapon'. Assault rifle is a legitimate term for today's infantry service rifles (so long as they are capable of automatic fire (full or burst)). Assault weapon is a term made up by the Brady Campaign to describe just about any semi-auto rifle because they have frightening features
@@jonesclantd no assault rifle also fits into a made up term. The only real “assault rifle” is the stg 43/44 since it’s nomenclature is dubbed assault rifle translated to English. You know how many assaults were executed with soldiers using an M1/2 carbine? Which is a personal defense weapon? There’s no such thing as an assault rifle or assault weapon, it is not a class of weapons
@@sendit7922 The type classification is assault rifle, even if the US didn't adopt the notion until they fielded the M16.
The fact of the matter is that the M2 carbine so very nearly fits the definition of an assault rifle, that it was gun chosen to test experimental hi-velocity .22cal cartridges leading to the M16 project. Pointing out the obvious that the US was building M1/2 carbines, classifying them as pdw's, and using them on assaults is just pedantry.
The fact is the term exists and it's been in use since the 60's and 70's as a direct nod to the STG44 and it's characteristics that everyone uses. It neatly categorizes attributes of modern infantry service rifles in general size, type of feed, caliber, and employment. It is not anymore a "made up term" than "machine gun" or "submachine gun" or "sidearm".
@@sendit7922 Did you just blow in from stupid town? "Assault Rifle" is the correct type classification for the M16A2, and it is universally accepted among military, history, and design circles alike. An assault rifle is typically defined by being a rifle that is select-fire, and uses intermediate cartridges for lower recoil and lighter ammunition. M16's, HK33's, AK47/74's, FAMAS', etc are ALL assault rifles.
And yes, it would be correct to retroactively classify the M2 Carbine as an assault rifle. You should probably read up on these histories before trying to act as an authority on them.
@@Gaspard129 there’s so much wrong with what all y’all are saying…I’m quite shocked.
Stoners LMG looks like the knights armament LMG that came out years later.
Probably just a coincidence 😂
It was Stoners design Knight used..