That’s correct- I’ve heard from the old school fella that the more amount of blood you see from your saturated area the less pigment is in it. In other words he said that the ideal color packing is the color packing with minimal to none blood. I was thought to tattoo with no blood at all - the blood was an indication of lower quality tattooing. The holes filled with pigment don’t bleed- they’re sealed with it. Blood comes from the unfilled holes. That’s why I love Neuma4. Using it I have feeling that I’m tattooing with coils , the skin trauma wise.
I’m eagerly awaiting my Neuma 4 to be delivered this Wednesday. I’m a 32 year tattooist and have only used coils since I started back in ‘89. Hand fatigue is my primary reason for wanting to make the switch, but until checking out your machines, I feared my line work would suffer. This video explained damn near every question I have about the Neuma. I made my purchase decision based on your ingenuity of design. I think this machine is going to live up to my expectations, hopefully I’ll make a cool review video. Thank you Carson, I knew eventually you’d have a product for me and thanks for daring to think differently!
Hemp plastics are the way to go. They’re very hard, heat resistant and biodegradable. Plus marketing wise it would get a lot of attention. So that would be win win win all over the place!
This is the most insightfull talk about tattoo machines in general that I have ever seen on TH-cam!! Did you ever think of using BLDC outrunners? You would be able to translate torque directly by attaching the cam to the motors bell housing rather than having the forces on the motor shaft?
very cool machine, probably gonna order one right now. I was wondering what are your thoughts on modifying the cams a little bit to either accelerate the pushing portion of the cam, or even like shaving off a little bit of the cam on the down turn so the retraction is even more accelerated? the cam wheel looks like a sin wave, but what if it was like a sin wave with like a steeper back end? just a thought from a curious artist =)
This is exactly how the 28% and 33% are designed. The 28% has a slightly slower needle extension with a rapid retraction and the 33% has an even slower extension with the same rapid retraction.
Thanks for the information your machine is very interesting. So you mentioned a 5mm stroke being in a similar well zone as your machine, would that mean you could speed it up and shade with it and do more passes without causing the drag trauma to the skin?
So the 2.75 mm stroke would be sufficient for lining, while providing longevity for your machine? I'm going to be ordering one, but if the 3.6 reduces the lifespan of the motor, I would get the 2.75.
You are all correct. We have tried many configurations that were not ideal. The instant recoil not only was very noisy, rattly, and short lasting, surprisingly, it did not improve the desired outcome as far as the tattooing goes. It turns out that the 20% was best for lining for a number of reasons. A little bit of dwell made for a quicker saturation, the geometry of the cam ensured that it would last a long time tattooing, and it is still smooth enough that its not too noisy.
I have some theories about the coils waveform being unstable that makes it a benefit over rotary machines clean waveform as you illustrated in another video. I believe you could possibly adjust your plate to use that benefit, especially for lining. I feel like tattooers are overlooking a key detail I’ve been talking about for years with coworkers. Maybe we could message back and forth if you’d like to discuss it.
This machine is amazing the amount of functionality with just one cam is anazing but i got the 4.2 and honestly u dont need anything else i own all the wands the xion and the valhalla aswell as the sol nova and this machine works so well i dont use the other machines much....im curious about the counterweights and a heavier grip
@@Cjmm007 hmmmm idk I kinda use both the vallhalla us a good machine if u can't afford too many machines and need a good all arounder but the neumas precisely good at things with the cams like the 22 3.6 great for lines the 33 great for shading and color blends and the 40 for color i's great. with both u can do everything I just feel the neuma is more precise and smooth but I use them both and my Cheyenne broken down right now so...
@@ivanmendoza8457 thanks for reply. I’m trying to find a good machine I can just use on the weekends. It’s been awhile since I’ve tattooed daily. Can’t find too much comparison videos online so ya. I don’t want two machines. I want one I can use to lay single pass lines with a 9rl or lower atleast and be able to shade well. I’m still not sold on which I’d like. I’ve narrowed my choices down to the Neuma4 or the Axys Vahallah. Seems both are solid options, I just need the one I get to be like more versatile so I can line and shade
@@ivanmendoza8457 do u like your Cheyenne better than those two? I’m just trying to get as much info as I can considering not a ton of people respond that own both vahallah and neuma
suggestion, be a little more prepared for your presentation. I like the idea but would like to see it in action with different tattoo artists and get their feedback
Come on, he’s old school and I love any machine builder that cares enough to give us there thought process more info about the machine instead of just saying figure it out yourself, be thankful he cares instead of every other machine company out there
The idea of the wave form, seems sound. Maybe I'm missing something, but your explanation of give, seems flawed. You are describing the combination of give and the bottom part of the curve and needle depth as almost a COMBINED FLAT spot in that curve of the rotary. My understanding is much different (although not much different from your wave form idea). To help me explain, Let's take the 1st Dragonfly give mechanism to describe. When circular drive mechanism (Exo-center) is in the 12 o clock position, and then drives to 5. The needle is traveling downward. The spring in the give position of its "tension" knob COMPRESSES which delays the needle's take off. It might not start at the 12 o clock position, It would most likely take off at 3 to 5 o clock depending on rigidity of that spring). Then, the DRIVE mechanism extends fully at 6 o clock , but the DELAYED SPRING doesn't allow it to hit until at about 7-8 (this depends on the rigidity of this spring also). By the time the spring allows it to hit at exo-center 7-8 the drive may have cut the spring's travel short (depending on RPM). The needle might get sent on it's way back up, on time, OR SOONER than 7-8 if the exo-center reaches upward motion before the spring fully extends.. The reason this is thought of as ideal, is because, just like coil machines, SPRING TENSION dictates these variables. Depending on the "stay up" spring at the bottom and the tension of the spring in the give knob. The "stay up" spring is similar to the BACK SPRING on a coil, the give spring int he tension knob at the top is the contact spring in a coil. THIS EXACT variable is what made the coil machine STILL the best device for putting on a clean and low damage tattoo. You could ADJUST time in the skin, by balancing the tension of the back and contact spring on a coil machine. That also could be slightly and withing reason, adjusted by voltage on both of machine. There is more reason than I care to explain why all of that is important on an INDIVIDUAL TATTOO level, but....... .....All of that also this misses one HUGE point. Part of the reason older tattoo artists never used rotary tattoo machines a long time ago, was as you mentioned, because of the exclusion of "give". Your explanation of what give is AND why it was necessary lacks. SO many explanations of it do today as well. What they meant was the machine gave with EXTREMELY PRECISE pressure. A good machine (in my opinion) had EXACTLY the same pressure exerted to the tip of that needle, all through that "give" area. Meaning the hit felt the same at the point where it started to "give" as it did just before the "give" ended. The end of give was always WAY after the tube tip ended. All of this did A LOT for helping the fallible human operating it. It meant the person could vary hand pressure slightly (or surface topography could vary) through that "give" area and the machine hit the same every single hit. THIS IS WHERE the other saying, "Let the MACHINE do the work." comes from. TRUST ME, every single coil machine I built felt EXACTLY the same all through that give stroke. All of those parameters including what tension it did the giving at, how fast or slow it hit all depended on usage. Black and grey, Color packing, color blending or lining. Your explanation of the needle penetrating, and that kid who inserted the needle, the puddle and then he wiped the puddle, no dot... What this person was correctly demonstrating is The Hydrostatic Principle, which states “a body completely or partially submerged in a fluid undergoes a push equal to the weight of the displaced fluid.” What this means in terms of tattooing is, the needle enters the skin. The needle when it enters (because of collagen) forms an air tight seal around the needle. This air tight seal in entry allows air to escape from the hole of the penetrating needle, because atmospheric pressure is less than the pressure created by the force of the entry of the needle. Then as the needle hits the skin, the force of the hit throws ink from the tube and needle grouping on to the skin encompassing that hole. As the needle is withdrawn, The displacement of the volume of the needle creates a vacuum in exact proportion to the volume of the needle, which sucks the tattoo pigment into the skin to replace it in exact proportion. The collagen elasticity closes the hole over the pigment which is now trapped inside. The un-retracted needle hanging in the skin you described, rips the skin, no longer creates this vacuum, or suction into the hole created. This causes more damage (scarring) AND not as much pigment displacing it. So it looks not as saturated in the tattoo and possibly has raised scarring. Long stroke with give allowed time for the pigment to pool around the needle creating a water tight seal around the entry. Which is why you like longer hangtime for color packing. I am an old school machine builder, I built probably 5k machines in my time. I never cared about making money to build my buddy's machines, I just loved the mechanics. I understood machine geometry and spring interaction to create any machine I wanted. I am looking at this from a point of reason and knowledge. The coil is one machine and you could set it to be all variations necessary. Any way YOU wanted it, because we all tattoo different. For lining, I liked medium stroke not much give. Color, The machine needed a LONG stroke with punchy forced give. For black and grey, FAST with short stroke very low pressure to start the give and the tube tip would end before you reached the end of the give.
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That’s correct- I’ve heard from the old school fella that the more amount of blood you see from your saturated area the less pigment is in it. In other words he said that the ideal color packing is the color packing with minimal to none blood. I was thought to tattoo with no blood at all - the blood was an indication of lower quality tattooing. The holes filled with pigment don’t bleed- they’re sealed with it. Blood comes from the unfilled holes. That’s why I love Neuma4. Using it I have feeling that I’m tattooing with coils , the skin trauma wise.
Im starting to save money now, I really want this machine 😍😍😍
Carson did one of my sleeves 18 years ago with what I would guess was his first model and it looks as vibrant and crisp today as it did in 2002
Did he tatto you with the Neuma 1?
I just purchased the Neuma 4 and can’t wait to put it in use. I love the way your thinking is about a lot of the different aspects you went over.
This is exactly what I was attempting to explain. Thank you Carson I will share this video.
Amazing machine by far… customer service A++++ thanks Carson.
Some really good info. Thanks for taking the time to help us out.
I’m eagerly awaiting my Neuma 4 to be delivered this Wednesday. I’m a 32 year tattooist and have only used coils since I started back in ‘89. Hand fatigue is my primary reason for wanting to make the switch, but until checking out your machines, I feared my line work would suffer. This video explained damn near every question I have about the Neuma. I made my purchase decision based on your ingenuity of design. I think this machine is going to live up to my expectations, hopefully I’ll make a cool review video. Thank you Carson, I knew eventually you’d have a product for me and thanks for daring to think differently!
Have you done a review yet on the Neuma 4? Would love to see it. That would be better than seeing someone read off a screen the specs.
How did it go?
@@inktensive1584 he died
@@snakeeyes1662 hahahahagaha
Hemp plastics are the way to go. They’re very hard, heat resistant and biodegradable. Plus marketing wise it would get a lot of attention. So that would be win win win all over the place!
I am currently using the Spektra Xion, but this Neuma 4 will be my next tattoo machine 🖤
This is the most insightfull talk about tattoo machines in general that I have ever seen on TH-cam!!
Did you ever think of using BLDC outrunners? You would be able to translate torque directly by attaching the cam to the motors bell housing rather than having the forces on the motor shaft?
Can you do a video showing how to lubricate or do maintenance on the neuma 4 machine please.
You have to oil it once a week. He shows you how on a video somewhere. It’s easy.
There is a video in our tutorials playlist that explains and demonstrates oiling.
very cool machine, probably gonna order one right now. I was wondering what are your thoughts on modifying the cams a little bit to either accelerate the pushing portion of the cam, or even like shaving off a little bit of the cam on the down turn so the retraction is even more accelerated? the cam wheel looks like a sin wave, but what if it was like a sin wave with like a steeper back end? just a thought from a curious artist =)
This is exactly how the 28% and 33% are designed. The 28% has a slightly slower needle extension with a rapid retraction and the 33% has an even slower extension with the same rapid retraction.
Thanks for the information your machine is very interesting. So you mentioned a 5mm stroke being in a similar well zone as your machine, would that mean you could speed it up and shade with it and do more passes without causing the drag trauma to the skin?
Yes, exactly. You can do more passes with less trauma. Try the 33% for a multi-pass blender tool.
Buen día, como puedo comprar la neuma 4? Soy de Mexico
DO you have any plan on wireless tattoo neuma pen?
So the 2.75 mm stroke would be sufficient for lining, while providing longevity for your machine?
I'm going to be ordering one, but if the 3.6 reduces the lifespan of the motor, I would get the 2.75.
Why is it that don’t you just have the curve just fall off after the deepest insertion point? Rattle? Damage to the plastic cam?
I picture it being insanely noisy that way
Probably deform the cam this way why the amen by stigma had to keep upgrading whhat their cams were made of
You are all correct. We have tried many configurations that were not ideal. The instant recoil not only was very noisy, rattly, and short lasting, surprisingly, it did not improve the desired outcome as far as the tattooing goes. It turns out that the 20% was best for lining for a number of reasons. A little bit of dwell made for a quicker saturation, the geometry of the cam ensured that it would last a long time tattooing, and it is still smooth enough that its not too noisy.
I have some theories about the coils waveform being unstable that makes it a benefit over rotary machines clean waveform as you illustrated in another video. I believe you could possibly adjust your plate to use that benefit, especially for lining. I feel like tattooers are overlooking a key detail I’ve been talking about for years with coworkers. Maybe we could message back and forth if you’d like to discuss it.
Absolutely! Always available for discussion. Email me at carsonfhill@gmail.com
This machine is amazing the amount of functionality with just one cam is anazing but i got the 4.2 and honestly u dont need anything else i own all the wands the xion and the valhalla aswell as the sol nova and this machine works so well i dont use the other machines much....im curious about the counterweights and a heavier grip
What is it like to compare wand liner?i mean for line work?
Still like nuema better than vahallah?
@@Cjmm007 hmmmm idk I kinda use both the vallhalla us a good machine if u can't afford too many machines and need a good all arounder but the neumas precisely good at things with the cams like the 22 3.6 great for lines the 33 great for shading and color blends and the 40 for color i's great. with both u can do everything I just feel the neuma is more precise and smooth but I use them both and my Cheyenne broken down right now so...
@@ivanmendoza8457 thanks for reply. I’m trying to find a good machine I can just use on the weekends. It’s been awhile since I’ve tattooed daily. Can’t find too much comparison videos online so ya. I don’t want two machines. I want one I can use to lay single pass lines with a 9rl or lower atleast and be able to shade well. I’m still not sold on which I’d like. I’ve narrowed my choices down to the Neuma4 or the Axys Vahallah. Seems both are solid options, I just need the one I get to be like more versatile so I can line and shade
@@ivanmendoza8457 do u like your Cheyenne better than those two? I’m just trying to get as much info as I can considering not a ton of people respond that own both vahallah and neuma
Why my neuma sometimes slows down by itself?
Can we get video explaining the new counterweights? can we cold sterilize the grip without it damaging the spring?
Yes the springs undergo a passivation process that makes them resistant to corrosion.
@@NeumaTattoo my neuma 4 has been running strong.great machine .highly recommened
i use to any the hell out of your cell phone with text messages when you were in riverside area >
suggestion, be a little more prepared for your presentation. I like the idea but would like to see it in action with different tattoo artists and get their feedback
Come on, he’s old school and I love any machine builder that cares enough to give us there thought process more info about the machine instead of just saying figure it out yourself, be thankful he cares instead of every other machine company out there
Thanks for the feedback, I'll certainly do my best to always improve!
The idea of the wave form, seems sound. Maybe I'm missing something, but your explanation of give, seems flawed. You are describing the combination of give and the bottom part of the curve and needle depth as almost a COMBINED FLAT spot in that curve of the rotary. My understanding is much different (although not much different from your wave form idea). To help me explain, Let's take the 1st Dragonfly give mechanism to describe. When circular drive mechanism (Exo-center) is in the 12 o clock position, and then drives to 5. The needle is traveling downward. The spring in the give position of its "tension" knob COMPRESSES which delays the needle's take off. It might not start at the 12 o clock position, It would most likely take off at 3 to 5 o clock depending on rigidity of that spring). Then, the DRIVE mechanism extends fully at 6 o clock , but the DELAYED SPRING doesn't allow it to hit until at about 7-8 (this depends on the rigidity of this spring also). By the time the spring allows it to hit at exo-center 7-8 the drive may have cut the spring's travel short (depending on RPM). The needle might get sent on it's way back up, on time, OR SOONER than 7-8 if the exo-center reaches upward motion before the spring fully extends.. The reason this is thought of as ideal, is because, just like coil machines, SPRING TENSION dictates these variables. Depending on the "stay up" spring at the bottom and the tension of the spring in the give knob. The "stay up" spring is similar to the BACK SPRING on a coil, the give spring int he tension knob at the top is the contact spring in a coil. THIS EXACT variable is what made the coil machine STILL the best device for putting on a clean and low damage tattoo. You could ADJUST time in the skin, by balancing the tension of the back and contact spring on a coil machine. That also could be slightly and withing reason, adjusted by voltage on both of machine. There is more reason than I care to explain why all of that is important on an INDIVIDUAL TATTOO level, but.......
.....All of that also this misses one HUGE point. Part of the reason older tattoo artists never used rotary tattoo machines a long time ago, was as you mentioned, because of the exclusion of "give". Your explanation of what give is AND why it was necessary lacks. SO many explanations of it do today as well. What they meant was the machine gave with EXTREMELY PRECISE pressure. A good machine (in my opinion) had EXACTLY the same pressure exerted to the tip of that needle, all through that "give" area. Meaning the hit felt the same at the point where it started to "give" as it did just before the "give" ended. The end of give was always WAY after the tube tip ended. All of this did A LOT for helping the fallible human operating it. It meant the person could vary hand pressure slightly (or surface topography could vary) through that "give" area and the machine hit the same every single hit. THIS IS WHERE the other saying, "Let the MACHINE do the work." comes from. TRUST ME, every single coil machine I built felt EXACTLY the same all through that give stroke. All of those parameters including what tension it did the giving at, how fast or slow it hit all depended on usage. Black and grey, Color packing, color blending or lining.
Your explanation of the needle penetrating, and that kid who inserted the needle, the puddle and then he wiped the puddle, no dot... What this person was correctly demonstrating is The Hydrostatic Principle, which states “a body completely or partially submerged in a fluid undergoes a push equal to the weight of the displaced fluid.” What this means in terms of tattooing is, the needle enters the skin. The needle when it enters (because of collagen) forms an air tight seal around the needle. This air tight seal in entry allows air to escape from the hole of the penetrating needle, because atmospheric pressure is less than the pressure created by the force of the entry of the needle. Then as the needle hits the skin, the force of the hit throws ink from the tube and needle grouping on to the skin encompassing that hole. As the needle is withdrawn, The displacement of the volume of the needle creates a vacuum in exact proportion to the volume of the needle, which sucks the tattoo pigment into the skin to replace it in exact proportion. The collagen elasticity closes the hole over the pigment which is now trapped inside. The un-retracted needle hanging in the skin you described, rips the skin, no longer creates this vacuum, or suction into the hole created. This causes more damage (scarring) AND not as much pigment displacing it. So it looks not as saturated in the tattoo and possibly has raised scarring. Long stroke with give allowed time for the pigment to pool around the needle creating a water tight seal around the entry. Which is why you like longer hangtime for color packing.
I am an old school machine builder, I built probably 5k machines in my time. I never cared about making money to build my buddy's machines, I just loved the mechanics. I understood machine geometry and spring interaction to create any machine I wanted. I am looking at this from a point of reason and knowledge. The coil is one machine and you could set it to be all variations necessary. Any way YOU wanted it, because we all tattoo different. For lining, I liked medium stroke not much give. Color, The machine needed a LONG stroke with punchy forced give. For black and grey, FAST with short stroke very low pressure to start the give and the tube tip would end before you reached the end of the give.