SERIOUSLY - House Paint and Water Only - No GAC 800, silicone, etc. Direct & to the point :-)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.พ. 2025
- This video explains HOW and WHY you can get cells with PAINT and WATER. Yes it can be done! I show the mixing of the paint, but as I'm mixing, I'm explaining the how and why :) Oh, and I fixed the auto focus part of the way through.
More photos of the wet canvas on my Facebook page:
/ sarahfezioartist
Another paint/water video: • LIVE Acrylic Pouring -...
Paints used:
Glidden Diamond -- Fresh Tangerine and Tan Suede Gloves
Liquitex Basics -- Bright Aqua Green
Artist's Loft -- Raw Umber
11x14 Canvas
Plastic cups
Stir sticks
Gloves
Sara! IT WORKED!!! This is the FIRST time I have EVER poured & want to send you the photos! It worked! All I did was use my dollar store acrylic paints, with a small base of White House Paint to each colour (cuz like you said it contains the active cell making ingredient), did a small pour of JUST the White House Paint to Coat LIGHTLY, the canvas, then filled up the pour cup with the colours & small white to start; & VOILA!!!! It worked and looks SOO GORGEOUS!! Also, I share a lot of the art explorations I find with my kids & their friends. It's like an outdoor art groups, accept I'm not (yet) paid for it LOL! Anyway so I kept hearing Silicone, alcohol, floretol, (whatever it's called) & thought, there's NO WAY Parents will allow me to have their kids get involved with all those chemicals! No way! So THANKS TO YOU & the information you've shared, I am now able to do this brilliant activity with the kids!!!! You have MADE MY DAY, my week even! A HUGE thank you again! So happy to have found your channel! 😍😎💟☮️
Jeanine H Thanks Jeanine! I would love to see pics!!! You have to send them to me on Facebook though since you can't add pics here facebook.com/SarahFezioArtist/
Sarah Fezio heading over there right now! I did take a look at others 'cells' & such since, & of course I see mine is not as great in comparison but isn't funny how quick "comparison can steal your joy"?! Why do we do that? Lol Anyways I'm still so crazy excited!
You shouldn't think that way because some people try many, many times -- even with silicone or dimethicone -- to get cells and still have a hard time! I'm sure yours are great!
Jeanine H interesting! Didn't it craze or split - days later even??
Diana Devlin NOPE! Not at all! In fact I'm out to varnish it as soon as I can figure that out & which carnishxwould last longest. Actually my mother even asked if I would make her a couple larger scale for her home. I can't thank Sarah enough. Now, that being said, I have tried to recreate with DIFFERENT household paints, & haven't had thee best luck. So I'm just going to go back over the colours and brands I used, then follow that recipe again from there. So as Sarah states in her videos, you'll get to know your Paints ie the brands & which ones will and won't cell. I swear to you it works though! I wouldn't use silicone cuz of chemical fear of mine as well as blow torch. You're free to check out the video of this pour its about 35 seconds & some finished shots on my Instagram "j_nine_34" 🙂
I have to say I have watched sooooo many people over the past few years & have never come across someone as informative as you, very much appreciated.
Finally!! someone who actually explains methods and details for attaining results... Not just a bunch of cups poured where we novices are left wondering "just what the heck is in there"!! thank you so much for sharing your expertise
Wanda Cooper Thank you Wanda! If you have any questions you can leave them here or on my Facebook :-)
By far the best tutorial I have seen on painting.
Thank you Veronica 😀
Sarah, that was so helpful - the why of the paint and when to use the additives, etc. is something I have been searching for! Thank you !
Thanks Sandy -- glad it was helpful!
You are so very clear. Love the way you explain everything. I learned a lot. Thanks so much!
Thank you so much Sarah. I live in Australia so we don't have those brands but with your info I will look at the ingredients of the brands we do have. All the best to you.
Julie Hooper You may want to look at paint manufacturer websites first. It's much easier to find the information online than the back of the can lol.
I use acrylic paint and water with a few drops of dish soap, and I get cells all the time, the more dish soap you use the bigger the cells......
What kind of dish soap
Thank you so much for the explanation of the accidental discovery of similar problems you describe which I made when using the sample pots in the Valspar paint range (UK) These paints come in small jars in a huge range of colours and vary in the amount of thinning needed for fluid painting Some can be used directly from the pot while others need extending and/or the addition of water. The colours are true when dried and maintain a good separation of colour, with little bleeding between colours, and so far no cracking or crazing. I had no idea why this happened or how to harness my findings for a rational explanation. I will now continue with a much elevated understanding of the process. I am not as excited by cells as many others appear to be, but have not had any invading my work so far . I will pursue cells with a new heightened interest and am going to try these lovely paints with more conventional techniques blended with pouring techniques.
Thank you so much for your very clearly explained information.
Joan Brier
I'm so pleased to have found you Sarah Fezio. Always wanted to do a pour, & now you have made it so simple and easy. You are a wonderful teacher. Here in India we don't get stuff like Floetrol & Silicone just off the shelf. Will try one soon & let you know all about it.
Thanks you so much Sarah for an amazing explanation of when to use pouring medium and or GAC 800. Always look forward to your videos. So much fun!
Thank you Kathy :)
Your videos are really informative thanks & please keep it up.
Omg. I have spent so much money on pouring meds and making my on. I've watch so many videos till I'm so confused I'm going crazy. Flip cup Dutch poors an so on . Everyone has their own recipes that I have literally tried to use from house paint to Varnish to Triple thick to polyurethane you name it different types of paint I will be watching you more often thank you so much
It's so cool to see other artists using house paints in pours. I've used clearance color samples from Home Depot for pours and for blocking in paintings for a year now. If on clearance, 50 cents. I've got too much paint and too few canvases now after many Home Depot runs lol.
Erica Spruill Thanks Erica! I started with white because it was economical and branched out from there :-)
Sarah, Thank you for the clearest explanation how this works. I feel confident to try this now. Thanks
Such a beautiful pour ! Reminds me so much of the beach ! Tides hitting the sand 🌊
You are absolutely right when I add pouring medium it makes the paint thicker but I thought I have to add it, thank you for clarifying that point. Lots of love
Ip Al Did you end up having to add water when you used a tube paint with pouring medium?
Yes, you can't get away with only pouring medium you have to add the water
Just learned if you move off,the comment you lose,it. Your video on house paint was great. I will be lookin for more of your videos. Love your teaching style. Marie (very gray and learning to paint all over again). Thank you
Thank you Marie! Yes, it's very hard for me to being doing stuff with my hands and talk or explain at the same time lol :)
Thank you for explaining the differences in the paint & additives. Very informative.
Nancy Stamps You're welcome Nancy :-)
Hi Sara, I am so confused regarding pouring medium, floetrol, pva glue etc etc etc. No idea what to use anymore.
Thank you Sarah . Excellent teacher. Very good description of paints and results. So much information.
Appreciate you giving up your valuable time ,subscribed ... Jeff from Stafford Uk.
Hi, I know it is a old video but if possible I like to know if can be use the satin enamel paint like the behr paint in the same form or need same other form of use… Thanks a lot this tutorial open a new world to me, I appreciate each of your tips….
Beautiful colors - good job
Nick Doe Thank you Nick :-)
Thankyou for all the information you have shared,greatly appreciated.😊
Yes I would love to know more about all the information you know. Thank you for your knowledge. 😊
Awesome :) I have a bunch of videos so far! If you have any specific questions you can post them here or on my Facebook page! facebook.com/SarahFezioArtist/
Hey Sarah you're a new one for me but thanks for explaining that in depth of why you don't need all those mediums all these other videos there's that I've watched there is plenty of cells with yours and plenty of cells with other people's that I've watched that just with the water and the paint and yes it matters on what kind of paint but like you said that got to add that one additive so that your paint doesn't crack is that correct right I think but not because you're trying to get cells so thanks a lot very informative can't wait to try one
Glad you found my channel! No, you don't HAVE to add anything to a paint and water pour. If you are concerned about crazing, you can add some GAC 800. You can get cells with or without it -- it's not added specifically to get cells.
Sarah, Amazing everyone else uses some form of medium, and as I am new to this, this was most informative...thank you for sharing this..Cheers from Australia.
Thank you so much for your clear voice I can really understand you and I also love your explanation of all the different paints, mediums and how they all react to each other really appreciate everything you are explaining the hard thing is we may not have the brands in Australia but that is OK as I will read all labels now that I have received the education from this video thanks
Thanks for explaining the paint.you are a good teacher!!!
Thank you Claudia :)
you are Amazing....! the explanation of all yourk work and tutorials are perfect :)... hi from Ecuador...!
You are right about the orange tangerine cells, but I don't see many more, but thanks for explaining the cell thing.
Terrific as usual. Have you ever tried using paints of different of different viscosities to see if you can different and interesting effects.
Fantastic Sara! Thank you Soo very much for sharing ALL of that useful information!
It is amazing it works..I can now stop pulling my hair out,Thank you,Thank you xx
Hi Sarah, love to know about lamp black. Is it used as a base coat & do I add floetrol Or just water?
it looks like a beach scene, sand with foam and ocean water cool!
Hi I live in the UK so don't get the same brand house paint as you, however I tried a dirty pour using a white interior acrylic house paint with 4 Basic acrylics in shades of blue but the house paint reacted terribly with the acrylic. The result was the white came to the surface with dozens of tiny pinhead spots and muddied the colours and caused the surface to become rough. I tried again using the White House paint, this time as the space only for a negative pour but as soon as the Basics acrylic touched the White it started to fizz with a mass of tiny bubbles and the same thing happened, muddy colours, rough to touch canvas. Help where am I going wrong.
I love your videos thank you so much for sharing your talent with everyone.
I am trying to make the bloom recipe which calls for the house paint gac800 Joe Sonya's varnish so on and so on what can I use as a substitute for GAC 800
Love your detailed explanation! Quick question tho... Do you use flat, satin, semi-gloss or gloss house paint???
really beautiful! I need to go get glidden paint.
cosmlayla Thank you cosmlayla :-)
NOT GLIDDEN, BEHR
I love how you experiment. When I buy a quart of Diamond at Home Depot they add a ton of extra pigment for me.
Nick Doe I'm planning on trying extra pigment. I have a great guy at my local Home Depot.
I envy you...you are living the life. I enjoy your videos and your instructions are clear.
Hellou Sarah... you are a beatiful teacher. thank you! I am from Mexico and I am having trouble with my pourings, it cracks to the canvas! what am I doing wrong?
Great video! I'm wondering what would happen if one added a bit of Primer, the house paint type?
awesome video love the outcome
Curious if you have ever torched the pour afterwards and if so, do you get more cells?
Hi Sarah :) Love your style! I like only having to use paint & water. The only thing is, I seem to get lots of air bubbles when I mix the water. Some times if I bang the cup a bit & let it sit for a while the bubbles go away. Other times the bubbles don't go away, when I just use it anyway it ends up drying with lots of little holes from the bubbles popping during drying. I noticed you just stir in the water & our straight away, how come you don't get pesky air bubbles? Is it to do with the size of your stirer, or the consistency of the paint?? I am on a budget, so don't really want to have to go buying pouring mediums or primers if I don't have to! Would be so great to just be able to use student quality paint or house paint samples & water.Also, I seem to have to use a lot of paint. What is your ratio of paint to water please? Am scared to put too much water in case it makes the paint unusable. Thank you so much,.Cheers,Mel
Hi Sarah, eggshell is way more like flat than satin or semi gloss. I just about wrote eggshell also. ...so. .let me know if you think we are onto something. .thanks again for the videos.
SO WHEN USEING HOUSE PAINT WHAT DO YOU MIX IT WITH???
The thing about adding water to thin acrylics, is that if you add more than 50% water you're deteriorating the binder (acrylic medium) which is what the paint is made with. That's what pouring medium is for, to thin the paint without weakening it.
The cheaper the paint (i.e. student paint), the weaker it is to begin with because it has more medium and less pigment.
Than you SO much ! I used those advices to pour my 3 first paints and I had a blast ! :)
I have to send you a lin to some pics to show you :)
Cute'N'Crazy Yay! So glad you had fun! You can also post them on my facebook artist page :-)
Sarah Fezio i m on it ! 😊
This is awesome! Thanks for the video!!
Mindy Murray Thanks! You're welcome :-)
yoo hoo, it's Jamie. I also think flat paint has something to do with it. it does not have the stretchiness (sp). Lift a gallon of flat paint and lift a semi gloss. .big diff. I first noticed this with melydart she uses artist loft white. Flat. and i had used a blu lagoon, flat. I am getting better cells by using flat in the craft bottles. At some Michaels it is the top shelf, and is marked. matte, satin, gloss. could be a fluke,but it makes sense. (i worked paint for many years).This paint and primer came out right after i retired and i have not played with enough to know the product well but paint with primer should do it also. This has not been proven, just observed and obsessed over. Thanks again for all of the info.
Ms. Jamie Paint we went to a Chapel in Vegas.
keonssugarbooger You may be on to something! I use eggshell though...I was hesitant to use semi-gloss because I wanted to stick to something similar to how the artist's loft and liquitex look like when they dry.
Sarah would any brand of house paints get the same results. If not what brand are the ones you used. You listed ingredients that were in them and I wondered if that's true for all house paints. Thank you.
Julie, I've tried Glidden, Valspar and Behr. You have to make sure the paint is 100% acrylic -- well it doesn't HAVE to be, but the paint that is not 100% acrylic will not interact the same (it has vinyl emulsion in it -- like PVA). I have a video on Valspar, and you've seen this video with Glidden. I will have one on Friday with Behr. Not all lines of paint within those brands are 100% acrylic. You would have to look at the individual cans to find out ingredients as it varies by brand and sheen. Also, I suggest staying away from exterior paints as they will have added chemicals (anti-mold, insecticide type stuff).
Valspar video (this paint is MUCH thicker than Glidden Diamond) th-cam.com/users/edit?o=U&video_id=uyZ_0QIpmcw
Does it need to be the paint that u paint on the walls or can u use the paint that’s for out side
Sarah thank you for the excellent clarification of the use of pouring medium, up till now Ive been putting it in everything but what you have explained makes so much sense!!!!! When I asked my husband about what housepaint we had he asked whether I wanted gloss or flat. Does that make a difference????
Sue C It's more important that it's 100% acrylic -- what kind do you have?
yes all acrylic, I would only use a water based paint. But it would be an interesting exercise to see whether matte and sheen gives a different result.
It would! I have only used eggshell and satin. Honestly I prefer the eggshell -- it's a lot easier to varnish!
OMG! ! BEAUTIFUL SARAH
Thank you Jamie!
Bonjour, j'adore vos créations. J'ai envie d'essayer votre technique.J'habite en Europe et je ne trouve pas le silicone 3-in one. Par quoi puis je le remplacer?
Sarah , you are colever !!
Thank you Tina :)
Thank you so much Sarah, I've been wanting to try pouring but thought I'd have to spend way too much money. Now I'm eager to go for it! Can you explain about the house paints -- is there a difference between latex and acrylic house paints? I've learned there's no latex in latex paints, but does that mean they're the same thing, or should we look for paints labeled specifically "acrylic" rather than latex?
Barbara Weaver You want paints that are 100% acrylic -- it may still say latex though. Generally latex house paints are the more expensive ones. My personal favorite is Glidden Diamond in eggshell finish. Behr Premium Plus or Plus Ultra are also good.
wow you are so amazing!!!
Hey could i do this by just using acrylic paint only but with different consistencies?
sevan vet Yes but you get better cells when there is quite a big difference between the densities of the pigments.
You offer great advice! Thanks
Thanks Tina!
Newbie here. doing research before I start it all.
Why do you add glue to the paint?
Some of the paints I have are matte finish. Is there a finish technique I can use to seal it? like a vanish?
What is the usage of the heat gun pertaining to this art?
Any input would be appreciated. Thank you for your clip.
I did this exact painting two weeks ago and posted in the group ... Did you see it?
twinkeez2003 I don't think so...I barely have time to post on my facebook groups lol. Sorry :-(
Interesting info Sarah. Thank you
use caltints (or proline dyes) and white house paint you can also try minwax polyacrylic with the dyes.
Zippythepinhead 17 Thanks for the suggestion :-)
Just found ur channel and Iam happy I did Bc your awesome 👍🏼I am a new subscriber!
Thank u so much for all these info 👍🏼😍
So much helpful for many of us trying to know about paint and pouring 🙌🏻
I learned a lot from u 😍
Tfs
I really like your work an your presentation. Thank you i intend to learn alot from your video s
Will adding Floetrol keep paints from crazing? Can you add Floetrol to house paints with water without having trouble crazing?
I love your colours
Thank you so much Sarah. Alot of information and help :)
Have you ever tried to puncture the bottom of the cup after it was tipped upside down - that would help the paint flow out more fully.
Nick Doe With my luck the cup would crush! I actually did try to do a slow pour out of the bottom of a cup suspended over the canvas. It didn't really work 😂
Marvelous I DID a search for pours done with house paint acrylic as I am soon going to do a very large canvas 7ftx5ft and I feel paints bought from Michaels or other art shops would make me bankrupt! !came upon your pours on Utube,and I must say not many would bother to talk and inform others of the great questions u asked Jon at the home Depot where u happened to meet him, and chat and find out so much and pass the info on to us...THANKS SO MUCH
You mentioned that you also had a pouring medium made by Behr please what is the name?
I plan to visit yr FBpage.
you recommended that i but these 2 colors from HD. If someone tells me to buy paint, well. ...I'm gone to get it. i would marry paint if i could. so i will be trying this one tonight. .thank you! !
keonssugarbooger If you want white, get base 1. Samples cost $3
keonssugarbooger And really for $3 for almost 8 oz you could pick several to try -- Glidden Diamond :-)
Marrying paint?!! Ohhh, I knew those Gays and their insistence on same-sex marriage would open the floodgates for all the OTHER deviants! LOL. I am totally joking as 1. I also love paint (although not enough to marry it!) and, 2. I'm as queer as a three dollar bill. ;-)
Also, you can bring color swatches of your favorite colors of artist acrylics (Golden, Liquitex, etc...) to Home Depot and they will color match it as close as they can with the Glidden Diamond paint.
Wow Sarah, this is beautiful. I am in Australia and most probably won't be able to get the same house paint as you have used. Can you please tell me if the house paint is just basic acrylic or is it some special type of paint?
Thanks Rob! Yes, I use 100% acrylic house paint.
So...my take..mix up your brands of paints! And the Glidden Diamond samples..whatever color!! Thank you!
Yes -- well, house paint and artist paint. I did a video on Valspar -- and I have one on Behr that will be out in a few days!
Sarah Fezio I have been researching pouring paint for two weeks now, and you are the first person I have found on TH-cam that took the time to explain what you need to add and what you don't need to add to paints. THANK YOU! Very informative! Hope your stepmom feels better soon!
Did I understand right that using only house paints won’t create cells, but need to use some artists paints as well?
i liked it before you scraped off the blue, never saw this type of painting before, looks like a bunch of close up microscope slides of plant & animal cells, its cool but not my style, thanks for the education in the types of paints & ill check out your other videos & subscribe , i ll never stop learning...stay awesome!
Thank you! That's what makes art so wonderful -- there are so many types to choose from to fit our own personal tastes :)
Hi Sarah, any idea or did the rep say what's the DEEP equate to? Is is the one used for dark pigment tinting or light? Is that the ref? So if I were to test the others would they work did he say? The deep is soooo thick, is the medium or light base not as thick/heavy and thus work for us???
Angela Fleak The deep base has no titanium dioxide (white) so it's the base you have to use for dark colors. The other bases would not dry clear, and might be a bit runner since they already have white in them (probably ).
I just may have choose wrong,, I was understanding you correctly I believe. But Olympic Ovation had 2 deep bases,, Rep said the Ultra deep & Deep are same just one is less oz. to allow more pigment to be pumped into it volume wise... that makes sense but what doesn't is that they gave it a diff name vs Ovation - Deep A or deep 1, vs Deep & Ultra like it's the Premium can and that's of course going off her knowledge which could be 100% wrong lol.... so you are saying that the bases that are meant for the lighter colors tinting are not what we want because they already have pigments in them even though they all say "must add pigments/tinted" all brands do???? Say same on darker tint needed bases cans as well, but they do not have any pigments?
Angela Fleak The deep base (or whatever the base for dark colors is called in a brand) may be thicker because the pigment is liquid. It should be clearest of all the basest. The really light colors are added to a pure white base.
Angela Fleak Based on what you said, you would probably need the ultra deep.
Please explain "cracking and crazing" I'm new at this. What are they and how concerned should you be about them, knowing that the average hobbyist acrylic pour artists are not exactly producing archive quality masterpieces on a routine basis? I DO think you produce some very interesting and beautiful results and enjoy watching your channel very much.
How soon after you pour would you know there is crazing? Is crazing like cracking? I'm a little behind on watching your videos, so I am very sorry if you already answered these questions🙄. Thank you so much, Sarah! And I hope your step-mom is doing okay.
She's good -- 1000x better! It will take a while to be able to tell. Crazing and cracking is different. Crazing is what happens when the paint tends to rip apart as it dries -- like the top layer of paint is dry while the bottom is wet. Cracking happens pretty much all the way to the canvas. Here's a video on it: th-cam.com/video/bE6gmdbLDi0/w-d-xo.html
wow! you make it look so easy. I'm going to try it, fingers crossed.
Thanks! You should try it Andy -- it's so much fun :)
Have you don’t a video on knowing which paints will cell you really well? If not how do you know? Are you saying that we need to make sure the house paint has acrylic resin and pumice as the ingredients?
Sarah, you are hella awesome!! Just thought you'd like to know...in case you didn't. ;-)
Thank you! :)
DrummerGrrrl in
The fresh tangerine was a housepaint? Glidden? which base did you have it mixed with? What finish, please?
DeBorah -- they choose the appropriate base but I chose eggshell finish. Yes, it's Glidden Diamond.
I just use water as well. With artist loft. I get cellsbut they are no large. I also torch ...creates more small ones.
Nuna Watson Yes, sometimes I only get small ones. I'm going to be working on identifying other colors that make larger cells :-)
Sarah !... how do you work on pricing your works? Do you work with galleries or just market yourself on line. It's a jungle out there ! I am a mature visual artist trying to start again the whole circus after many years being off, is the call of the wild again ;)..would love to talk to you . I am in Arizona by the way and out of my element, after 32 years in NY. Wishing your mother in law, a quick recovery and lots'o great health, same to you !
Devy******
I usually price by square inch. You can send me a message on my facebook if you have any questions :)
facebook.com/SarahFezioArtist/
thank you so much for all of the explanations!!
Very interesting, thank you. I got a kick out of reading the caption typos: health paint and dirty pork. Too funny!
Oh boy ...I guess I'll have to start checking the auto-caption service lol!
It's all good, I'm still laughing about the dirty pork!
you can blow on any paint with a straw and make cells, or take dropper and add dish soap or alcohol
What kind 0f dish soap... Will the original Dawn work?? Or will the blue tint mess with my paints
Great tip, Thanks!
surely another reason for adding PVA is to make your paint go further and to help with the transparency ?
that blue man that formed at the bottom of the cup!
Thank you so much!....this was very informative.
Love the video but have you checked the captions? Health (house) paint , wife (white) & many more. Amusing anyway!
Sheila Stevens I know lol -- they are free so I can't complain too much. I've started going back and proofreading them :-)
"Dirty Pork Up" (dirty pour cup) was my fave. =D
messed me up when you pulled the cup off... thought it was the world's fastest drying paint for a second.
This has helped me so much. Ty
elizabeth vashaw Thanks Elizabeth! Glad to hear it helped :-)
Beautiful
good video but could you keep stuff in the camera lens, can't tell how fluid it is off camera. Thanks
Did you do anything with the canvas? Gesso?
It was purchased pre-gessoed.
Bonsoir Sarah, avez-vous fait plusieurs vidéos en français ou une seule ? Grand bonjour de France !
I use Studio 71 paint and water only. There is no crazing or cracking with it, ever, and the colors are brighter. Any other inexpensive paint used for acrylic pours is not going to look as good. I switched from Americana, Basics, and others about 4 years ago and realized I wasted 2 years with shitty paint. Do not make my mistake. lol. Also a free tip some people do not know is using hot, thin paint poured right into colder, thicker paint that is already on the canvas. Try it once and you will understand.
Thanks for the tips :) I've never heard of Studio 71 paint. Where do you purchase it? I will look into the hot/cold paint as well!
Pat Cattan's hobby shop is where I get mine. It's the only store in town that has them although someone told me Hobby Lobby has them now but I don't go there so I'm not sure. The cost is $4 for 6.75fl. oz. but they are on sale a lot. They have a new line of neon but I have not tried them yet. There are 4 Iridescent colors that shine through very well. Gold, Bronze, Copper, and Silver. gl ;)
I bought Studio 71 yesterday w some Glidden Diamond - - I am about to try my 1st pour made me feel a little bit secure :) Pat Catan's are in Ohio only as far as I kno