Could Brood War Mech Actually Beat SC2 Protoss?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 พ.ค. 2024
- This game is played on the 'Evo Complete' mod in sc2!
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Besides the gameplay, I really enjoy the visual design of the Brood War units and buildings so much more than the SC2 design, where everything is rounded off corners and bezier curves. To me, SC2 terran always looked like a Mattel playset for toddlers, and protoss like a WoW elf faction. The old designs look great in 3D, though, which proves it was never a limitation of going from raster to vector.
Well put. I couldn't agree more. Damn
And the Zerg buildings in sc2 look like they are made out of plastic
the WoW visual design philosophy was like a disease on Blizzard
Yeah, Did you see Jim Raynor's arms?
Those are WoW character arms. It is everywhere in Blizzard games.
I love that, canonically, it's all Mensk's fault. I'll never forgive him for that (and you know, the other crimes too, but whatever)
Blizzard needs to make this an official game mode. It would really help make the game fresh.
Dont rely on Blizzard at this point, just do it ourselves and fund the tournament.
The best thing about this, is that it don't anulate the normal SC2, it just complements, and feels like it doing really well. Even the ZvZ which feels BW Z to have no response to early banelings, they are using 2 or 3 spaced out sunkens to counter the banelings, and not compromise larva, like a super early hydralisk den would. It such a good job those guys of evo complete has done!
HELL YEAH!!!
@@RochaHigor can u give me a link to that a zvz game?
Flash vs UThermal can finally happen
lifting a building up to leave the base is so old school and i love it amazing.
also starcraft needs this mode in tournaments and i think the game is completed :D
Expending massive amounts of rocket fuel to lift a giant building into the air, as opposed to just making a gate, is so Terran.
If they did an SC BroodWar + SCII ladder, then SC2 would blow up.
It could be done, a custom launcher with a custom ladder.
Would love it with other balance mods as well. A launcher and match maker for a list of mods, sorted by how many people are currently playing. Including SC1+SC2, Scion races, I don't know what else there is, Starbow maybe?
@@LittleRainGames with the way SC2 is setup with custom games, I don't think it would be very difficult for Blizzard to do with how well the SC2 main screen is.
@@LittleRainGames i feel like with a bit of tweaking, GGGs custom mod manager could maybe fit the bill
28:06 FYI, Archons are considered hovering and won't trigger spider mines
Do disrupters trigger mines?
@@neonmarblerustthey don't trigger spider mines.
SC2 Protoss: Where are my armies?
SC1 Tanks: Gone, reduced to atoms.
SC2 Protoss: Where are my armies?
SC1 Tanks: Where are your armies?
We need the goliaths and vultures back for starcraft future
It would be cool if you could select different sub-factions for each race, like Brood War, Legacy, or even different lore factions like UED or Tal'darim.
😢Around heart of the swarm they started messing around with the units to much instead of balancing them
Yes, but not the goliath pathing please.
I thought helions were a fine change from vultures (that being said I loved vultures playing brood war as a kid). However, goliaths were THE coolest thing growing up. Thors scratched some of that itch but still miss them 😢
@@rozmarinideas5340 nice idea btw
Blink Stalkers are something Brood War Terrans saw in their nightmares.
One thing that will be interesting to see is if the staggered siege can still work and if the new SC2 pathing helps with it. If you watch the old vids of Flash and co, the tanks were spread out because of the slow fire rates and to avoid mine drags from zealots. That required constant APM to unsiege the ones in the back and move them up but they could get caught on a lot of things. The entire map became a war zone covered in turrets, tanks and mines where mech units were rushed to the front across a wide area, as opposed to the "deathballs" that Marc is using here.
I think it helps quite a bit that BW Siege Tanks in SC2 don't overkill, so you don't lose as much overall damage from 20 Siege Tanks obliterating a single zealot. In BW proper, it is recommended to siege up in 3-4 groups when attacking so you can stagger the shots, and thus spread damage out.
BW Terran squat over a huge area, claiming bases and slowly strangle the opponent, rather than pushing for a win. Usually.
With carriers you could actually make ghost with lockdown work. In BW split targeting is really difficult, but in SC2 you'd be able to perfectly lockdown every carrier
Marc you gotta up that gorgeous original SC music a bit so we can all bop while you do your thing. ;)
Man, I miss the brood war units soo much
Gotta love them viltures.
Do they come from Viltrium?
Even though the Medic was a mistake making, medics are actually pretty useful for fighting against SC2 Protoss, as you should be able to "Flashbang" the Protoss observers, making them blind and useless as detectors, which is better than killing them, as they now take up population space, while providing almost no value. So the enemy has to made the decision to kill them themselves or suicide them into missile turrets. This should also work on the Warp Prisms, as it should make it much harder for the warp Prism to teleport in new units, as it would have almost no field of vision to do so, unless it has some units inside it as well.
Novel idea, would probably work best outside of main battles since thats micro intensive to spot an observer, switch to your medic, and then flare in time. Blinded warp prisms are likely to fly directly into your missile turrets without an escort, which is pretty funny.
this is one of the theory crafting ideas that make no sense to someone who actually plays the game, if you have an obs in range and you can see it it's easier to just shoot it down with goliaths, which have enormous range
It also doesn't make sense to have medics with mech if their only purpose is using optical flare, it's dead supply. And you need to research optical flare.
@@Pico141 nah you would have them for restore, the ability to clear status on your army is really nice.
@@electronus97 It depends on the matchup I guess.
Against SC2 Protoss for instance, the Medic's Restoration ability isn't going to be of much use apart from curing Oracles' Stasis Ward or Revelation (if they even work against those). Not sure if they will work against Phoenix Graviton either.
oh yeah I remember the range upgrade on the goliath anti-air attack being absurd. Also valkyries seem really good against carriers with their air splash damage.
love these brood war vids, this mod is so cool!
Isn't Carrier's armor too big for Valkiries to deal any damage to them?
@@karpai5427 you might be right, it's been a couple decades since I played brood war lmao
@@karpai5427 Even if you can't kill the carrier, you can kill the interceptors because SC2 interceptors aren't immune to splash damage like BW ones are.
Valks aren’t used as anti Carriers due to some reasons. Valks can’t damage interceptors, their upgrade is based in ships, etc. that said, Goliaths are more cost efficient since their upgrade paths are the same with tanks, plust their range are insane. I’m not saying that Valks aren’t effective but on a battle of economy, Goliaths are better than Valks against Carriers.
Whoah. Was just checking out the Evo mod in other videos, and then you also come out with one. Cheers Marc, I hope this becomes a long running series.
Goliath/Tank was strong in BW, I think that's why some people in SC2 have been so disappointed that going with mainly factory units has never really been viable in SC2, at least not in any era I can recall.
Part of it is also, Bio is much stronger in SC2 than SC1, so people just choose Bio over Mech. Against Protoss in SC1, Terran needs to go for Mech almost exclusively.
@@tigera6With SC2 Terran they added more units instead of a single unit do 3 things really well like the vulture. (very fast, can lay mines, excellent at killing probes+lings) replaced with helions, reaper, marauder, and widow mines. Goliath got replaced by Cyclone, Viking (ground mode), Thor. Tanks had supply increased from 2 to 3 and now have units that are designed to hard counter them like the Immortal. Although they did originaly think about "stronger" mech units like the Warhound and Diamondback being put in multiplayer. If the Warhound were in multiplayer they'd have to make it stupid expensive with how strong it is.
Ever since the first previews of SCII many Toss and Zerg units where defined by "this unit counters seige tanks" and Terran where never really given counter counters, or tools other than MMM micro which doesn't always work when you need to out APM other people at your mmr by a good amount to make it work.
Not to mention the "tank counters" where also good all around units as well.
Brood war the way it was meant to be played.
vultures being OP af is the only reason terran is playable in bw
I just can't comprehend how you are able to comment so much and play at such a high level at the same time. Blows my mind every time!
terran looks so beautiful in green
Seeing serral counter this kind of thing with SC2 Zerg would be an absolute treat to watch
If Serral is that great, ask him to counter this with SC1 Zerg and see how it goes.
This is so fun to watch, this should be a regular feature of rts games that run for long enough. Bringing back brood war factions was exactly what sc2 needed. I hope to see much more of this in the future:)
When I see people playing this mode I can't help but feeling that Terran got shafted and cornered so hard into bio with SC2.
So many units were interesting and actually good at their job past the papier mache comp of marines/marauders/medivacs and maybe ghosts seems like.
Thanks! Your uploads are always fun to watch, with very good commentary! Keep it up man :)
SCBW/SC2 mix may revitilize the game a lot! This is so fun to watch! Also, iirc spider mines don't trigger on hover units (scv, probe, vulture, archon, high templar).
And for the most important question - Wraiths only to GM when? :D
That vulture harass was nasty
We need more of this again but now vs Zerg < 3
I wish my partner would look at me the way uThermal looks at spider mines
What I find interesting is that the last game has sorta ended up with SC1 meta. Vulture tanks pushes vs dragoon/zealot; but in this case stalker/immortal and archon. They have very similar roles. A very slow terrain army vs a fast protoss army and trying to take engagements everywhere.
Awesome! Looking forward to this episode :D
this is such a great idea it's odd that it hasn't been done earlier.
You need the Charon Boosters upgrade for Goliaths to be any good at AA
@uThermal what mod do you use for the TH-cam Shorts you make pitting various units against one another or do you set those up in custom games on normal maps?
The Valks in Evo are a carrier cullers. Both with a wing of them wiping out their interceptors almost instantly, and they do bonus against armored in the mod. They will trade in your favor, honestly they're almost OP.
Thermy, your content has made me love starcraft again. Evo has made me excited about it like I haven't been in 20 years.
The Siege Tank and Widow Mine sounds are resonating at the frequency of my soul.
Spider mine*
I will admit it took me longer to realize what viltures were then I am proud of.
Really enjoying this new series of brood vs 2
I love uthermal game play and would love to see more content regaurding this mod.
Very nice to see SC1 vs SC2, the depots and machine shops look smaller than I remember. And now I miss goliath again...
its nice seeing some light cast upon the arcade scene
Ok, now we need Warcraft 3 races included in this mod.
I heard that Starcraft 2 already comes with them.
EMP is only a half measure vs Carriers, what you really want is lockdown to abuse the smart casting in SC2. Only downside is that Ghosts require investment (cloaking upgrade, then typically lockdown and sight range upgrade).
Never has the term "popping off" seemed more appropriate!
Great stuff!
Please more of it with BW Zerg also
Just FYI, archons are considered hovering units the way workers are. Therefore they don’t trigger spider mines
loving this content
I really loved and missed those "Goliath Online"
Dealing with Carriers continue to be a pain for Terran to deal with. Maybe you can sneak in a Lockdown if you're lucky.
The thing SC2 Mech needs against toss is: A goliath / Vulture equivalent.
Yes: There is the helion + Widow mine, but that takes up so much army supply and just is not as effective against blink stalkers.
Yes: There is the thor, but it is too bulky and expensive.
That is why I liked the Warhound from the HOTS beta. Because it was a flat main combat unit for terran mech, with a hitscan attack. It is what the cyclone should have been. Not a cheap mineral dump, not an expensive 1-off specialist. Just a good all-rounder. Make it 150/50, give it more health (or remove the armoured tag). Make the ground attack a flat attack value, give it better scaling and weaker 0/0 attack and leave the +Mech dmg for air. Increase lockon range, but restrict it to air. Finally: Attacking while moving should be an upgrade that slightly buffs attack (Research required). There: Now it is a suitable main combat unit for a more mobile mech build, but it is not as strong early on (to not ruin the TvZ matchup). It should not be a specialist, it should be an allrounder. There are allready way too many terran specialist mech units (Helion / Hellbat vs Light ground, Thor / Siegetank vs armored ground, Thor vs massive air etc. etc.).
Haha vultures as so god damn fast, it looks hilarious.
Just realized I hadn't seen a video in my sub feed from you in a good long while while I was watching the latest Florencio File on Pig's channel. Hope your channel is doing ok since I haven't seen a video in my feed from your last month of uploads!
Hello, is there a ladder for this mod? And yes bw terran mech might be really stronger than sc2 terran vs protoss, just because of vultures thanks to their strong mines, they can lay mines on every expands spots and raid probes. Any skytoss switch can be quite easily countered by goliaths which are way more cost efficients than thors/vikings. Only problem in my humble opinion is prism variations.
Sick game. Definitely room for improvements but Terran is really strong if you push forward and lay down turrets as you push forward to your opponent
I wish there was a full blown SC:BW ladder in SC2, I like units from BW way more, but mechanics from SC2 are way more friendly.
If you mind control an scv, can you repair your Protoss mechanical units and buildings?
WE NEED MORE!
If someone was able to take this mod and scale up the size ships and vehicles, kind of like the real scale mods, I could die a happy man
Can you patrol micro in this edition to fire in motion with Vultures? This Vulture micro looks so clunky and slow and has them taking so much damage.
Hi, part of the dev team here. We are looking to implement patrol shots for vulture, still on the works to see if it will work exactly as expected
Wonder if lockdown ghost to counter carrier transition would be fast enough.
dang man, this one mod basically creates 3 more sub races to the game, total of 6 races to mess around, it's so good.
14 range tanks and 75 mineral high speed anti zealot unit, hell yeah!
I've never been so fast to a video before. :D I see uThermal, I click.
spider mines detect stepping on ground, probes don't step - they float above ground.
Starcraft one units on starcraft 2 maps with starcraft 2 unit selection seems so busted even if every game isnt a win I can feel the potential.
i need more of this :D
This was great
From what I have seen so far. SC1 Terran struggles to win with MECH is because once they leave their base they have nothing to def from counter attack. If the opponents tunnel vision in defending then the SC1 Terran will win but because of the SC2 nature of the game where counter attacks are so deadly, SC1 Terran cannot win if they push out with their entire army...
Leaving some troops behind isn't the best solution either but it can't be help because SC1 Terran dont have Planetary fortress
Isn't there emp on the science vessels?
The Engineering Bay is pretty obviously flying sideways there.
Spider mines never looked this fun lol
using ghost agaist carriers with sc2 system is going to be so much better
This is why Vultures were replaced in SC2. They are really powerful, gamebreakingly so.
As an old school Broodwar Terran, I think Vultures are the best and coolest unit in the game ❤
Love your videos. Love this mod because I actually like bw better than sc2. Your videos have gotten me into sc2 at all.
Aside, your pronunciation of "vulture" made me think you were saying "villager" so many times. I finally got it. Thanks again for the good games
watching this make me entertain.
i see green terran, i click
My brother and I spent many hours playing Starcraft 64. Please give us a video where you infest a command center with a queen. Infested marines used to do 500 damage. It'll be cool to watch. Have a good day boss
The answer to the question is a definite yes. Next time try to use Defillers and Hydras/Lurkers! Or a Zergling rush since they're pretty good.
blizzard would never come to this concept , and its a shame - cos i think this mod is an amazing idea to revive the meta a bit
Love to see BW units in SC2 please do more videos like this
it seems like the BW factions are quite a bit stronger than sc2 factions, would be cool to see some tourneys on this mod tho
All right, bring it on!
I hope Goliaths target Collosuses with their anti-air attack.
We want MOAR!
please make more videos on this mod
I love these sc1 vs sc2 mod. Fucking amazing
It seems to me that the main determining factor of who wins in an Evo matchup is how prepared the Brood War player is for the Starcraft 2 player's air transition.
doesn't the science vessel repair mech units? or is that a upgrade to research?
thats only on the wol campaign
Hot take, the way to save sc2 is to take away select all army and reduce unit selection to 20 max. Ever since sc2 released and all the way up to now, the late game has all been the same. Mass up a deathball, kite army around someone elses mass army and get picks until you land 1 key spell and go all in. Rinse and repeat.
BW end game? Giant mass battlrs spanning the entire map. Multiple points of smaller combat. It looks and feels like a mass war rather than 2 clumps just waiting.
Smaller control groups won't help with that, if you want to replicate the feel of SC1 in SC2 you have to make the pathing worse.
Even if SC1 had an F2 key it would be almost unusable with how all of the units bump into each-other, get stuck, and go on their own little adventures. It's kind of like a mechanic that makes larger armies worse. With good pathing you can still get your deathballs even with limited control groups.
💯 sc2 is better balanced and so many more units and build orders are viable but the chronic deathballing always makes me go back to watching old school bw
I havent played sc2 for centuaries. So whats going on? Brood War is in the game now? or only customs? Is it official?
Nah, it's just a very cool mod
With how explosively popular this was, Blizzard has a great opportunity if they made it official. Now, Activision owned Blizzard would never do it, will Microsoft owned Blizzard do it? We'll see
custom mod
@@RancorSnp Are there some sort of measurements to find out how popular this mod is? Korea had a tournament today, that's what a I know, but apart from that?
@@RancorSnp Microsoft doesnt have the best reputation. They have just released a couple studios. I wouldn't have high hopes if I were you
I want to see ghost lockdown
Sc1 ghost is real ghost 😂😂
Ghost is hard counter for toss
This is beautiful ❤
I wish you could play some games with SlayerS_BoxeR, that would be epic
can someone tell me , in what way this tanks are different from sc2 tanks?
Cost 1 less supply, slightly lower DPS and 25 less HP.
What made terran mech weak vs protoss in SC2 compared to scbw?
what this map? is custom map? where to get it? it possible play on sea server?
?
they are on goldenaura a current ladder 1v1 map
it is a mod you can apply to any melee map. Head to custom, click on Melee, pick a map, click on create witb mod, search for Evo Complete