Sig Flux Raider Legion
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.ย. 2024
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Sig has released their P320 pistol in combination with a Flux Raider brace in this ready to go commercial package referred to as "Legion". It comes ready to go with the Flux Raider brace preinstalled, just add an optic and go.
The real question is does the Flux Raider brace really make a significant difference?
Russell is crazy fast with the spinners, i am impressed every time.
Russell shoots like a freaking Terminator. The man is skilled.
Absolute beast, one and two aaaaannd its done
It’s almost mathematic, so cool to watch.
It is not hard at all to imagine that this would be the norm for service handguns, or at least a lot more normal, in a world where SBRs were not on the NFA
There's a police department out there that approved the Glock version for duty.
@@robertparis5680 oh boy they can get even more rounds downrange and even more bystanders hit by stray fire per year
@@TheWizardboy5on the one hand I agree with having zero trust in police.
On the other hand, maybe the improved practical accuracy might mean they at least hit what they mean to hit. Even if what they mean to hit is a questionable shot.
@@TheWizardboy5they’d miss less with braced/stocked pistols.
@@TheWizardboy5 Did you watch the video, or do you always miss the point?
Phagan with the quadruple taps on the spinner.😮
dry firing at the ceiling fan LOL
seems to work 😁
Guess we can judge his adherence to gun rules depending on the number of holes in the fan / ceiling ;D
If it looks stupid, but it works, it ain't stupid.
@@towakin7718Fan had it comin'. Probably said unkind words about his mother.
If you practice with the Raider, you’ll see massive improvement over a typical handgun. This has been shown in many tests, internal, mil/le, and other third party testing.
Largest variable is amount of practice - if you’re very good with a handgun, then you won’t see a lot of improvement until you put a lot of practice into the Raider. But if you aren’t very good with a handgun, then you’ll immediately be better with a Raider.
I’m low A class in USPSA with a pistol - I’m almost GM with my appendix carry 365 Raider in PCC.
Finally, as far as accuracy is concerned - the Raider won’t make your pistol more accurate, but it will make you more accurate, particularly when on the clock, under pressure.
Also, the accuracy of your weapon is dependent on many factors, we have seen a wide variation in the P320 uppers used. From 1 inch or under groups at 25 yards to 3-4 inches. The most accurate ones are the pre-tensioned or gunsmith fit barrels and slides. Aaron Cowan of Sage Dynamics was getting 1 inch groups with Speer gold dots. Bulk pistol ammo isn’t made to be accurate, definitely want to use a known entity.
So awesome to finally see this on in range, I’ve watched the channel for 10 years or more. 🤘
Hey Ben, glad to see you here.
We’d like to get on the list for a P365 model, please email me at media @ inrange.tv
@@SinistralRifleman eeeeeey! Awesome to see a response! It will be a while before we have more, we are still producing the 1000 that are on preorder. Likely around the turn of the year we will finally have more, it’s been a tough one to get perfect, and harder to scale with tight tolerance machining.
That thing looks like it should come with a three-round burst setting. I like it.
The three-round burst setting is called Russell.
"I want a 93R, son we have a 93r at home"
Russell is a high speed spinner wreckin’ mofo…
Seeing him shred a spinner with my own gun and then just casually keep it spinning with the rest of the mag was humbling. His skill is insane
[haughty comment about how I used to do that spinner and silhouette drill in half the time at twice the distance with my Makarov in 1998]
back in my day we spun the spinner in 2 seconds with a derringer and a round to spare 😎
That is hilarious @@thepinkplushie
Great story, bro. Prove it.
5:05 thank you for explaining why slung weapons need manual safeties. I always wondered why I can appendix carry a pistol with a trigger safety but need a manual safety for a gun that is pretty much never pointed at my junk.
Russel's 3.96 spinner had me open mouthed!
2 spinners 1 Scorpion
th-cam.com/users/shortsorpINvNmRRQ?si=5x83rvSNUinxWRlw
With the size of that frame, probably better suited for a 5in barrel
Yes
Correct. The 5.5 inch full size threaded barrel is flush with the end of the frame.
Maybe they could get a 6-7" barrel option...
MP5 level velocity out of an MP7 sized gun would be pretty cool.
An important point with these is that they are absolutely terrible if you’re using iron sights. Having the rear sight 5 inches from your face makes the sight picture with iron sights completely unusable. You really have to have a red dot on these to make them work reasonably well.
Has anyone claimed otherwise? I've not seen these without an RDS
@@tenchraven someone might not realize that and buy it not understanding that a red dot is a requirement, not just nice to have. I have a pretty bad astigmatism so red dots are mostly useless to me. So that issue can be very important to some people.
Could be unusable for you, it’s certainly very usable for me and other people.
But yeah, you should have an optical sight, just like pretty much any other firearm - they are significantly superior to irons.
There are reasons why we never advertise it with irons, and why it says “backup irons” below the channel for irons. They are intended as backups only.
Russell's a bit of a beast on the spinner
Russell's a bit of a beast.
Fixed it for ya.
Thought these were stupid, but I am pretty impressed by the design upon closer inspection.
Many think they are gimmicky until they test them. I have spent years and an insane amount of money to ensure they are incredibly functional.
I’d be interested to see a similar set up on a 10mm auto tested given it’s biggest disadvantage of slower follow up shots from a regular pistol negating the increased power on offer
I've owned one for several years now. I do like it. Just another option in the gun safe.
I’m beginning to think that as a center console gun, something that could extend your abilities better than a standard pistol, then this makes sense. Especially since most people are carrying a subcompact or smaller, the ability to easily access something like this would be very beneficial if you get stuck in a riot situation or similar. It would conceal better if you had to leave your vehicle.
Very fair and informative . Thanks guys 👍🏼
Glad you enjoyed it!
I could see this in a market where you can only own one firearm, provided that the local authorities recognise the chassis as the firearm, and other components as merely accessories. For this, I mean, your chassis is the firearm, and you can have multiple barrels, slides, grip/lowers etc. in this scenario, the one firearm chassis could be carried as a pistol in it’s several sizes (micro, compact and full sized) and with this frame as a PCC with a longer barrel (I’m not sure if SIG makes longer barrels, but I know that you can purchase barrels in lengths up to 10-14inches for some Glock models). Changing configuration takes mere seconds, if you have the time.
Unfortunately in most jurisdictions that are more restrictive with firearm ownership, they generally also regulate all the firearm components. For instance, where I live (not in the USA) possession of firearms, firearm parts and ammunition is highly regulated. So we can’t just buy, say, an AR lower, and then multiple uppers in different lengths or calibers.
You just rekindled my absolutely unsubstantiated and purely online infatuation with the fk brno. 1 gun 3 possible calibers and can use as pistol or pcc, with the 7.5 it might even be pretty cool.
I don't think there are many, if any such markets. Typically if you're allowed to own only one firearm, then chances are that handguns are prohibited wholesale, you can't have them in any configuration. Even in UK where handguns are completely prohibited, you're allowed to own multiple firearms.
Also, USA is sort of unique in only controlling the frame/chassis/whateveryoucallit, the laws in the rest of the world first and foremost concern themselves with the pressure-bearing parts. That's not to say that the other parts are uncontrolled, but it does take away from the possible modularity a lot.
Interestingly, before 2017 when the EU responded to some terrorist attacks by enacting -federal laws- _directives_ that would have done nothing to prevent said attacks, here in Estonia you could in theory send your kid to the gun store to bring you a box of Glock frames. Okay, probably not in practice, but in theory no part of this would be illegal. Now, after the 2017 Gun Ban, and then Estonia repeating the same joke after our first ever mass shooting, even P356 and P320 grip modules are controlled. Which is frustrating because I want to get a 365XL for carry and then an X-Macro grip for competition. I'm expecting lengthy back-and-forth e-mailing with the permits department to get that whole mess sorted out, and I'm gonna sell my revolver first just to put them in a slightly better mood about it.
Really cool video. What a huge time difference
Money hates me and loves cool guns. This is going on the list of "gotta try"
I think the salami metaphor is pretty apt. The flux seems like the slice between the handgun and the vz 61 scorpion.
Great Video! Better shooting than I could do! Viva Karl!! Viva InRangeTV!!
Dry fire at my celling fan 😂😂😂
Laught my breakfast away from my mouth and straight into my cat's face, that ran away yeeting my coffee mug.
Still worth it
i thought it could be a joke, but with Russell, i believe it
Enjoying the presentation so far, keep it up!
Russell always reminding me how cracked of a shooter he is
Consider that this platform could mitigate some of the recoil issues that many shooters have with the 10mm, and could, thereby, help the 10mm find a new platform home.
H, YT TP!
Awesome review. I am really interested in where they could go with this concept. Would love to see one of your standard PCCs added for another comparison, as well as trying to stretch it to 100 yards.
I'd also really love to see someone continue to develop this concept with a more accurate base pistol, but so it goes.
My PCC run on the spinner averaged about 1 second faster at the same distance than the Raider.
@@SinistralRifleman Awesome, thank you!
@@SinistralRiflemanhow do you explain the difference ? Barrel lenght ? Handling ?
@@docthorr Barrell length is probably the biggest factor. More V means more F means fewer necessary M's on target to achieve the same rotation. And considering Russell hammers those targets with 4-5 shots per with just the handgun...
@@philkensebben157 yup, and presumably he can do even better with a PCC, + he is used to it.
Thanks mate :)
I like that mag-swap!
I really like the inclusion of hit factor in your testing. Would like to see it on a paper USPSA or similar target with 5/3/1 scoring to really show that not only are you getting those hits faster, but they are of better quality as well, as it looked to be from the impacts we saw on the steel, and show an even more dramatic difference.
My PCC scores are dramatically higher than my pistol scores in PCC in USPSA. I reached 93% after only a few months in PCC with my appendix carry Raider 365. I am a low A at best with a pistol.
I love the original for the G20.. Wish there was a 7.5FK version. I think that would be the perfect PDW and PDW cartridge [currently]
Personally I think a Flux Raider style firearm based on the PSD as a sidearm with a longer barreled PCC version in 7.5 would be a good combo [MV comes up to just short of 2400 fps out of 11"]
Both are coming, as well as more goodies and improvements to the system.
Drop-in pistol chassis is the best concept there IMO, like the Micro Roni or the KPOS, you have a pistol for (concealed) carry, and then you just drop it in a chassis and turn it into a kinda PCC in seconds.
Not seconds, and the functional cost is way too great. Both the Roni and Kpos make your pistol less accurate and less reliable. If you take your pistol in an out, then even more so. This is an objective demonstrable fact that has been shown in many tests, mostly by LE.
The Raider will not make your pistol more accurate, but it certainly won’t make it less accurate, and it does make it more reliable.
♥ Sig for coming out with this braced pistol, trying to come out with long muzzle brake MCX, and the pistol FCU!
* Though the front of the Flux Raider and the Sig Legion really should have matched up better.
Yeah, why not a longer barrel for a factory gun ?
Lot of icky takes about this. The clear result is that, while offering an improvement over a standard pistol, that is far more pronounced with less training. Not a bad idea for service personnel who don't train enough and carry a sidearm at all times
Mind you that these are both essentially "professional" shooters. That means its likely an even .ore significant improvement for the average soldier or cop.
This is the kind of content I like.
Coming here from the Stocked 1860 Colt Revolver is quite the change.
Sinstral proving once again that he's the Spinner Slayer
Imagine a stocked Laugo in 5.7 with a muzzle break.
You mean a 5.7 MP5?
*Brake, pet peeve sorry
LOUD
P90?
Wack on a stendo and switch and you've got the Rolls Royce of machine pistols.
Too bad you could only dump a mag or two before it gets unbearably hot. But I spose you could design the chassis to keep the heat away from your fingies
Great IRTV style review video.
I've had the P320 Raider, but I'm gonna ditch it for the 365 Raider.
I forgot that Sig did their own factory version
russell really does work those shooty-m-things, i mean Karls no slouch dont get me wrong
Nice vid. Looking at the thumbnail I thought this looks dumb but the review and use shows it is well thought out and has a place. Still not sure that place is in my arsenal but it has a place for someone.
I'm looking forward to the match results with the Raider.
Quality review.
Even more so than full auto or suppressors, the functional ban on stocked pistols is the number 1 reason I hate the NFA.
Love seeing you on r/gundeals bud. Awesome educational video!!!!
The accuracy improves quite a bit if you chop the top rail and direct mount to the slide
I’m not going to lie, this definitely has my attention. PDWs have always piqued my interest.
Well, I have to say I'm pretty surprised. I initially liked the Flux simply because it has that Cyberpunk 2077 look that appeals to me. After seeing the results I'm really impressed.
Wish it was in there. Love that game.
@@BenfromFlux I loved that game as well even though there was a lot of hate after it came out.
In all honesty it is a really good idea a fairly compact PDW that can use the same mags as your pistol. The modern Cowboy setup. Would be interesting to see a side by side comparison old cowboy with modern. Can you use it with a 10mm p320 or 45ACP p320?
It looks really cool but also goofy at the same time
I guess this could be useful to someone like me who not proficient with handguns but at $1500 I’d rather get a compact PCC/subgun.
Would be interesting to see the difference with a novice shooter. This seems like a good setup for home defense for those with limited training.
The less training one has, the more the Raider will help.
There's some room for improvement in the styling dept; but then again Y2K blobjects are pretty chic right now
For the average person, I would bet that the advantage would be even greater in a real life situation.
Absolutely
might be good for a vehicle crewmember. i know the old chest holsters were ok to keep you getting too caught up on a hatch.
Wow, Russel is a Killer Man!
You could carry your pistol, have this in the backpack/car, and put it on when you're in the wilderness or come by a range. Was my thought when I saw it, for what it's worth^^
If ai were gonna have a gun that lived in the car/truck then it would probably be something larger and more competent. I could see it working as a backpack pistol if you're into that kinda thing.
This was a super fun one!
I love my braced pistol, makes a great bag gun. Small nitpick in the testing, though, is that if the braced pistol had a compensator, the regular pistol should have too. When I added a compensator to one of my pistols recently, it drastically improved how easy it was to track the dot during rapid fire and keep it within the target I was shooting at...
Would be interesting to see such a brace/rig/setup on a Laugo Alien. Especially since it would eliminate the possibility to interfere with the slide. And obviously the fixed low barrel design. Also a thing to note (Not sure if it was mentioned.) is that you're way tucked in with a setup like this, instead of your arms extended. Which could be a benefit for home defence. Thanks again for an other interesting and entertaining video ;)
Was I the only one that was disappointed they didn't reflexively draw when the shot timer went off?
You would have to work out how to carry it, but it works pretty good as a PDW.
From what I can see from my armchair. The raider is way better than a pistol in most ways other than size. However if you are pretty damn good with a pistol already the improvement this brings is less substantial. Which makes sense. This suited for a tanker or someone not expecting to engage targets with less skill is far better than having a pistol, probably. Now I wonder how a cheek pistol design would fair up against this...
really cool you can buy it as a stock factory thing
Looking forward to match use with this!
I have one I like it... not interested in the p365 version... but.... if they had one for the 10mm I would be very interested in that!
Interesting concept, with some room for refinement. I think it would make sense to have a longer barrel, out to the end of the frame.
If you run a full size 5.5 inch threaded barrel, it’s flush with the end of the frame.
Wish I could get one in Australia 😢
Needs 2 inches of more barrel length. Keeps your finger safe, and adds more velocity and energy down range
this is bizarre i just looked at the under video box and it said ''consider my paypal'' im a patron ands didnt know karl or russell had a paypal was curious to the 'my' so clicked it and it took me to the paypal of one avi12 in tel aviv when i refreshed the page the normal patreon link was there, been getting more of this cross contamination of videos and links/comments, no idea why avi is
I get this sometimes when coming from another video, because TH-cam will load the video player first and then work on updating other components on the page.
Thanks guys
Those sunglasses are cool
I can see this as a non-NFA EVIP PDW, as a "bag gun" smaller than what adversaries might be paying attention to (unlike, say, an MP5K PDW).
I also could see a use case as an aircrew or vehicular "bail out" gun, carried in a hunting styoe chest holster. Something that offers more than a plain pistol, formfolks qho realistically cabt count on havung even a small (AKSU74) super short carbine if they have to get out in a hurry.
I thought about a possible use case for, say, motocycle police in a rural area, but realized the gub probably makes a poor *handgun* for rapid deploykent from a belt holster, and frankly, accomodating an actual carbine in a a locked hardshell scabbard is probably easy enough that any such cop who feels the burning need for a longer ranged arm than a service listol has better options.
I do want one, but it looks like it has a couple quirks. Such as the quick deploy mag. If you're gonna conceal carry this, there's no way you'd have an extra mag in it.
I don't own a firearm yet and am very interested in this. It's got a cool factor, it's an improvement over a non stock pistol and carries better than a regular PCC. I might be more interested in the P365 version since it would holster/carry better, but I'd love to see a comparison of the 2.
its advantage seems to be at the longer ranges of a 4 inch barrel 9mm. I'm guessing its hit rate at 100 yards on a 12x24 silhouette would be consistent under stress where a conventional pistol would miss most shots. From a holstered or slung position vs a holstered pistol it will probably be slower and not have an accuracy advantage closer than 41 yards or so (what you shot in the test). As a close protection weapon imo the traditional pistol is better, but as a replacement for a rifle at very close rifle distances it would be far better
I see this as a primary with another smaller handgun like a glock 26 or sig 365 fuse as a secondary
The brace is pretty cool, but I wonder if you could get most of the benefits by installing a non-reciprocating optic mount on a similarly sized pistol. I could see how both shooters with the raider were able to triple or quadruple tap where the pistol was mostly double, and it looked like sight picture was the primary reason.
I’ve had pistols with fixed optics. Including the Alien I sold to buy this.
They’re not as fast or stable
Neato!
Be interesting to see the differences between when brace is in to brace out when shooting
For home defense? Bit of panic, High heart rate, maybe, maybe
Would be interesting seeing this with a novice shooter
I'd be interested to see this tested back to back against a BT9 or something like that.
Now I'd like to see y'all try the P365 version
I need one of these so bad, they're never in stock though 😢
To make the test even more equal you should have taken the comped slide off the Raider and put it on the 320 frame, perhaps the comp gives it an advantage?
These are not PCCs. Nothing you can do can turn a stabilized pistol into a PCC. The origional vz61 Skorpion wasn't an SMG either (that foldy cool guy thing is too floppy to really be a stock, and the cartridge), and the Artillery Luger wasn't a PCC. The beat the hell out of a normal pistol for most shooters, maybe even all. These have a niche, and not a tiny one, for folks like bike/motorcycle cops, armour and aircraft crews, and to be honest, most people for home defense. Honestly, not thrilled with the sight mount being polymer, but I hope they sell at least a quarter million of the things. Those of us who know case law know which magic number that is greater than. Stunningly so.
I have the thought of it's bigger it's heavier so I either want more rounds or a more powerful caliber hopefully both. If they make one in 380 super Cary or 10mm with 20 round mags I'm super interested.
That's cool. Very compact. Have any of you guys seen the SOB9? It has almost no recoil.
I like it, guessing its a bit pricy especially with the added red dot.
Mostly commenting for algorithmic boosty reasons, and to annoy 'first' kinda people
Cool though! Stocked pistols are such a... weird category. Proven to be dumb and pointless, or just underexplored?
After watching a bit - nice, pleasantly surprised! Like Russell said, a bit of a niche use case but I can see it being a lot more viable against similar setups, or even at a stretch, maybe even a good call for issue for in place of a small PDW where you're not expected to carry much ammo (though there's probably smart reasons why not, also).
I wish this was more accurate, 3-4 inches at 25 means that at 100yds you can straight up miss a reduced torso target
SIG USA FTW!
Really depends on ammo and slide/barrel setup. They can be sub 1 inch at 25 yards, that is what sage Dynamics was getting, and I’ve gotten 2 inch groups at 50.
Could you do this comparison with a short barreled pcc? would be interesting to see any advantages a stocked pistol might have.
Try the B&T USW if you can.
Now to spend 10k to make a version of this for the alien
there is no way that chud TH-camrs like the bodkins or BRCC would ever let someone outshoot them on their own channel! lolol great job Russel and Karl keep up the great vids
wish you guys would've tried a plain old pcc here too
Need Flux Raider braced chassis for Laugo Alien... Grand Master cheat code
The magwell of the Alien is well suited to be a connection point
Have been looking for the New version... in camo etc. But you can't find them and if you do.. They are selling for over a grand.. when they are supposed to sell for $499.00
I first saw this monstrosity in the Ready or Not expansion. What a downright GOOFY choice for a firearm in that game. I couldn't believe this was real.
Why? It’s a weapon used by SOF and LE, a perfect fit for the game.
The future will always surprise you, unless you’re on the cutting edge.