Thanks - and I believe that so much of the medieval stuff was built by people that had specialist skills; yes, but their available tools and technology were generally pretty basic so given the right direction and most people can do most of it
Good stuff. There is a school of thought that the proper staff sling is a bendy stick, much like a bow stave, that curves forwards (the opposite from the one you use in the earlier parts of this video). As you sling with it, it straightens out, and then returns to its forward curve, supposedly adding power to the shot. I don't know whether this actually works, though, and would like to see it proven. As for changing string length, I'm not convinced. In a siege, perhaps, but if a man is fighting an open battle, where the range of the shot will vary unpredictably and sometimes quickly, one length will have to do. I find that if I want a flatter trajectory, I need just drop my front hand during the slinging action and this does the trick. As for stick length, many depictions show them shorter - about broom handle length seems to be the commonest, but this may be an artefact of medieval drawing. They were not reliable with scale. One point that I think you missed out here is that staff slings don't seem to add range to a slinger. Instead, the big difference is the mass of the projectile. Great for chucking grenades over a city wall.
Smaller projectile, without the weight being significantly lower, will add range. Not necessarily a lot, but if you have a regular even 5-10m from it (using a smaller projectile if you want that range) would certainly make a difference in siege situations, helping to overcome range advantages from height. So I think having large stones, fist-sized and larger, as well as using regular sling stones would both make sense. Just like with a bow and the many kinds, the different string tensions and arrow weights and shaft thickness, let alone heads...having multiple choices for different situations is generally the best choice. So long as they are easy to acquire, like a big stone or a smaller, shaped stone (or lead bullet). Obviously there is a finite limit to that, but if you are going to be using slings anyway (not that they were in MASSIVE use in all of the middle ages, but they sure had their place), extra height and leverage are going to add some range.
I suppose I have you to blame for my staff slinging obsession. I made one after your instructions during the first year of covid and I have to say it has been one of my favorite re-enactment projects. I even went out and bought the tunic, belt, and cap to fit that late-Roman period. It took a little longer to get used to the shepherd's sling (I don't doubt I'm still more dangerous to friend than foe at this point) but hopefully these things come with practice.
You might consider slinging things other than stone. For example, Apache stars. Which were just two sticks tied into a cross, with sharp points and weight added.
Might as well just have a standard sling for stuff like that. You can just put it in your pocket and don't have to deal with a staff (assuming you don't regularly walk with a stick as is)
I have a walking stick (made from a broom stick) that I cut a couple of grooves in, that I can attach my sling to. I've been able to throw rocks about the size of my fist, about 80-100 yards. I've been carrying a sling in my pocket since 2016, and occasionally toss a few rocks, but I don't practise regularly.
My walking stick used to be a tree, and its core makes it a perfect staff for this. It's even the right height. I ought to rig it and see how it works.
Some people actually believe this is what David used on Goliath. When he comes out, Goliath says, "Am I a dog that you come at me with staves?" Note that it's staves, plural. We know David had a shepherd's staff. If the second staff was a staff sling, and the "smooth stone" from the river was sized for a staff sling, it explains how David knocked him senseless despite the helmet.
Interesting point. The scripture mentions David’s staff and Goliath says “sticks” in a modern translation. We do not know of course exactly which type of sling. The only thing is the staff sling is an area weapon, not a precise weapon. Still a regular sling is very powerful. I’ve seen other videos demonstrating helmets being completely dented in. And since David’s stone sank deep into Goliath’s forehead it’s easy to think the helmet didn’t cover that area.
I think this is a red herring and that he would have had a staff and a sling. A staff sling is just not needed by a shepherd (I think David was a shepherd?) and a regular sling would be far more useful and of course a staff is always useful for this and that. Overthinking I think
@@tods_workshop But you just showed how easy it is to attach a sling to any old stick. The 23rd Psalm, written by David, mentions the shepherd's staff and rod. Do you think shepherds who relied on the staff, rod, and sling in their day to day life never figured out that they could attach the sling to the end of the long staff or the shorter rod to get more leverage? I don't know if I believe the theory either, but it provides an interesting alternative view of the story. I've seen at least a half dozen videos of people testing shepherd's slings on helmets in an attempt to prove the validity of the story. A palm sized stone weighing close to a kilo completely changes the calculus from a traditional sling bullet. In the end, that's what good science is, adjusting variables and considering all possibilities. When I was doing my thesis work on ballistics, I fired countless rounds of varying caliber, from various styles of firearms, through various test media, all to validate a single premise. So for the sake of science, I think we need to see a big rock hit a helmet 😁
My thoughts, too. He kept saying this is like a trebuchet, but considering the evolution of it, they finally developed the walking crane to be able to build a siege weapon out of the staff sling.
@tods_workshop Since you are not afraid of the phrase 'against my better judgment', do you happen to have a fire retardant gambeson and some flaming sling stones you could film?
@@roelandvandaal1052 I don't think patenting would do much 😆 People would just make those in a pinch, often guerilla fighters and such, making improv weapons, so probably without easy access to a patent office 🤔
I'm 64 and handicapped, but I think I HAVE TO make one of these! Just from the thumbnail, I immediately thought of an atlatl, or spear-thrower. I got to try one when a docent came out to the primitive campground my family and I were camping at the Sage Creek primitive campground in Badlands National Park, in South Dakota, USA. (I was really pleased that the Park took the effort to do this: the campground is free to camp in, and more than 30 miles from Park headquarters; a third of the distance being gravel road.) Trying out a tool that Native Americans used for thousands of years for hunting was especially exciting in this beautiful location, in part because, not more than a few hundred feet away, a huge male bison was grazing.
Yes it changes range because the angle of launch changes, but not really on ease of use. I suppose a longer sling 'wobbles' a bit more when loading so you can fumble the load a bit more regularly, but in throwing there is no difference
Finally a video about these. Staff slings and lever spears are such under appreciated weapons. It would be interesting to see Matt Easton try this out too next time you meet.
I made a staff sling a while ago, took a set of old pool balls and made a silicone mold of them, filled the mold with type s mortar, and made perfectly spherical giant knobs of rock. Brutal impacts once you figure it out
That’s a great idea. I originally tuned in as this seemed the perfect device for clearing stones out of my sheep pasture. But with repeatable weight ammo this could be great for long range target practice. Wondering how long to take down a dead tree now.
The Roman's greatly valued their Bellaric Auxilliary specialist Slingers They used smoothly cast lead bullets which were devasting - Faster than their arrows & a flatter trajectory. Remember to ensure the area is VERY well ventilated when you try this 🙄
I made one of these when I was 13, flinging snowballs 10-40m was entirely possible, with the short range ones being nearly head sized IIRC. It also made up for the winter clothing reduced mobility.
Me and my friends would make these and would test fling rocks in the obly place near us, a field with a playground at the end and a pavilion at the other end We would fling rocks from the pavilion not thinking we would reach the playground but we managed to clear over the playground with one shot Problem was we didnt have any fabric or anything so my shoddyly put together pouch tied with the rope would have the rocks fall out constantly and shoot backwards
An Autumnal alternative is to impale windfall apples on the end of a straight, flexible, 2-3metre long, Hazel stem (about 5cm at base, down to about 1.5cm at end). These "Apple Slings", in the hands of adolescent boys, can launch apples over 100metres on occasion, though they are somewhat unreliable in their release timing. Andrew and I never perfected the release. Just as well, perhaps. 😀
@@spamcrud5639 One of the rules of mechanical engineering is to never rely upon friction as more than a quality unless you can control how much friction.
The way the sling induces a backspin in the rock (seen at 3:35) is exactly how baseballs are thrown and what makes them fly in a straighter line than a purely parabolic trajectory. So you're sort of right with that it makes you throw like a baseball player.
And people - be careful and in honesty treat it like any other ranged weapon. Make sure you can see everything where it is likely to go and that includes the possibility of backwards or upwards
Its a hand held trebuche so if you wanna make effective one you just need to follow golden rule of 3.75:1 for staff length and make a hook at the end bent to a 30 degrees(you can use nail,just cut off head and smooth it with a file). Your hand serves as pivot point so from one hand to another is 1 ratio after that its 3.75 times the length of that distance until the sling notch. As of sling length it should be 80% of the said 3.75 ratio length. Its a great thing for throwing tennis balls for dogs .
If you dont have fancy leather best thing to use is bycicle inner tubing.You dont even need to drill a hole ,just tie 2 knots on a sling rope half a cm apart ,place it on a tubing and then wrap in the middle of the two string knots few loops of thinner string that you cut around 10 cm and tighten it strong(use superglue to hold knot on that string and it will never fall apart). When placing knots on inner tube make sure that you go down from edge 2-3 cm. This way you can also make hand held shepards sling that works exactly as those made by weaving but its 10 times faster and nylon tubing wont let stone slip.
I would argue that may well be a good start point, but my experience with trebuchets definitely changes these ratios depending on the weights thrown and counterweight mass as well as pivot distances, so as a guide yes perhaps, but not as a definitive answer
Seeing a very skilled bladesmith using a cheap utility knife to whittle a sapling instead of using a knife, he made himself or at least a decent commercial carving knife.
Instead of changing the sling length to change the trajectory, a more simple way is to have a second release notch, or peg as it's called in the video, cut at a different angle. One notch for distance and another for a flatter trajectory. A tip for those who want to try slinging but can't get the hang of a shepherd sling, is to make a staff sling with a short stick to use one handed.
About the damage from slings being more effective than arrows: He's probably talking about internal injuries, internal bleeding, organ trauma, etc. These things were poorly understood in ancient times, and even seemed magical to some people. An arrow might actually do more damage, but it's easier to find the wound and treat it.
Both internal injuries as well as things like trying to determine exactly where the bullet struck. They do so much damage that taking one to the upper cheek, for instance, would take work to find, that side of the skull would be so damaged. Did it hit the eye, or the maxillary, or maybe the nose and then slid into the eye. Even a regular sling does this, but the extra size means the wounds were just a complete mess. Same reason treating mace wounds to the head was considered almost futile. They cause bone fragmentation as well, and they didn't understand well that bone can cause infection itself, because of course they didn't understand vectors.
As a long-time historical archer, I am biased, but even I will say after what I've saw on channels such as Tod's or Archaic Arms', that if a source says "the sling is more effective than arrows", I'd not even argue the point, even if - probably based on a lot of factors - a difference might be there one way or another. However, more importantly - it isn't even about lethality. The weapon "just" needs to make sure that the guy will not participate in the engagement anymore that day, and a sling is _fully_ capable of making sure of that. Even a simple thrown rock in some cases, if less so of course.
@@AkosJaccik This is such a hard point to get across to people who have an interest in history, historical weaponry, warfare etc, but have no interest in doing the research into the mundane details of war. The realistic accounts of battle casualties that are like "3,000 wounds, 120 dead". Because most of the people with interest, but not DEEP interest, play games and watch movies and shows that depict mass deaths. That everyone dies from arrows. That a few people are laying around screaming on the battlefield, but mostly it is dead people. And no, it is the exact opposite, with very few exceptions. This is true of all weaponry until automatic guns. If a person takes an arrow to the clavicle, and they are wearing a byrnie and coif so it breaks rings but doesn't penetrate gambeson, but it shatters the bone...that guy isn't fighting anymore. He will probably survive, but he sure can't use a bow, or a spear, or lance that day. And that means the arrow worked.
Well Tod I’ve made several staff slings from hazel staffs, my latest one is solid fibre glass. It is the bottom section of a 7’6” spinning rod which I got in the 1950s. my ancient stiff body I can throw a hens egg size stone 100 yards now mutch younger guy would beat that. It really amuses my young grand kids what silly granddad gets up. One of my grand daughter’s 8 year old can really whack a stone over 40 to 50 yards.
It's a nice idea, but frankly it doesn't make sense. One of the main purposes for using a sling by hand and not by staff is control and mobility - a shepherd needs to be able to sling at all angles and distances to herd their sheep or kill predators, as well as perhaps hunt birds or small critters for food while pasturing their flock, and frankly the staff sling doesn't have that level of control, while a hand sling has it all, as well as an incredible store of power that most people underestimate. I've sent ~150g egg-sized stones some 170-200 meters using a sling by hand. And don't forget that the staff sling only first comes into literature in Vegetius' works, while hand slings have been in literature and artwork for a thousand years prior, or some 7000 years prior if the infamous Çatalhöyük slinger artwork is indeed a slinger. And there were the two slings themselves found in Tutankhamun's tomb from around 1325 BC. And as for depictions of David and Goliath in the Medieval - a mix of staff slings and hand slings are seen throughout manuscripts, but it's far from a balanced mix: David is almost always shown with a hand sling and his staff is either on the ground or in his other hand, or entirely absent.
Shepherds had crooks right up until they adopted the quad bike as a method of getting between fields, and then only because you can't fit a 6-foot stick on the quad. You can buy tourist merchandise of a yorkshire dales shepherd leaning on a crook while seeing to a sheep. That's my great-uncle Frank, and I think he's still alive. They had all sorts of uses in the field, but mostly were something to lean on while watching the sheep do sheep things, and to test the ground before stepping on it; nothing's worse than facing a long walk with a boot full of mud.
Yep. The greater distance gives David more chances. Goliath wore a helmet of brass, which means there's an advantage to conking him with a big rock. Had a shield, too, which means conking his shield a few times might have been necessary, which definitely means big rocks are better.
Love the fustibal, I've made several over the years. For shorter distances, you can attach the leather pouch directly to the shaft, and use a metal ring as the slipknot to fit over the tip. To use baseball terms (since I used to test mine on a baseball diamond) You can stand at 2nd base, and hit the rubber home base with consistency, with that design. In medieval times, the pouch and ring were made of metal (a ring for the slipknot and chainmail for the pouch), so that they could throw fireballs at opposing ships' sails and rigging.
well, the Ancient Greeks were hurling lead oblong projectiles with inscriprions on them. Taking into consideration how dense lead is the damge would have been devastating!
@@bobjoatmon1993 If we are talking about physical damage, no. If we are talking about the emotional damage the victim felt when he learned that the lead bullet which had struck him said something like "take it" or "in your face" then yes, the incription damaged him a lot.
There is a related Chinese weapon used to throw javelins. What you need is a section of bamboo, at least 10 feet long, really the longest you can handle. Then you put a hook on the javelin, behind the spear head. This is a crew served weapon. One man would stand with the bamboo staff over his shoulder and another man hooks the javelin. I wonder if you could try it with the Swiss arrows you made.
@@bjam89 we have no clue, evidence of slings preserves incredibly poorly bc rope degrades easily and ammunition, especially early on, would probably just have been rocks, which cannot be recognised as sling ammunition unless specifically stashed into some sort of ammunition cache. I think the actual hard evidence goes back no further than 9,500 years ago with a cave painting in Turkey; which makes it possibly *significantly* younger than both spear throwers and bows (30,000 and 60,000 years respectively); but it might also be the same age as spear throwers; the ideas behind the sling are very similar to those of the Atlatl, and any people capable of inventing one of these weapons could also easily have invented invented the other. It's hard to say when the sling was invented but it's not impossible for it to be the younger of the weapons; bows were our main missile weapon for a long time, and eventually the Atlatl was invented as a way to deliver a larger and deadlier (but conceptually very similar) projectile. The sling may have come significantly later because nobody was seriously thinking about using plain rocks as a hunting tool. There is definite merit to the idea that the sling evolved more as a defensive tool for agricultural peoples (to chase off animals, potentially from very far away; the sling can reach much farther than bows of the the time could) and only gained popularity as a hunting weapon for small game later; nomadic peoples who survive in no small part by hunting would probably not see much use in developing a weapon like the sling bc the bow and Atlatl are significantly better hunting weapons for the prey size humans preferred.
@Loalrikowki Came to the comments to say the same thing...using a stick to make your arm a longer lever was ancient by Roman times. I've got a modem one that uses aluminum darts...haven't practiced with it in years, but it's capable of good accuracy at surprisingly long ranges if you work at it. The sling stick is so simple I'll definitely have to make one at some point lol
I'd want to put a spear tip on the bottom, That way it doubles as a melee in case I get crept up on. You're already holding it with the bottom half of the stick facing your target, Would simply require a swift grip change to pivot to thrusting.
I have always contended these are the perfect adventurers sidearm. Everyone is fighting about bow storage, and making a bow quickdraw while having quiver and backpack and cloak to fight with. I say, have a stick with a spear point on the bottom and a sling staff with you. A pouch of lead balls or rocks, or grab a rock as you need it and you can hunt for free, defend yourself against medium sized threats and have a spear ready while your sword is safe under your cloak. This is apparently a much hated idea on youtube.
FINALLY, someone talking about this powerful weapon ! It was a GREEK invention - 400 BCE You can have a Cup at the end, for more control, and more level travel. I always wondered why they didn't have Staff Sling Light Cavalry.
Originally called the "Sheppard's staff" or Sheppard's crook".This is how they defended against wolves, lions and people. It is theorized that David slew Goliath with this, and now it's become a lot more likely than the legend of hand sling. But, I'm still puzzled by the famous Balearic slingers, did they really just have slings? In one roman battlefield in northern Spain, archeologists have found 10's of thousands of led pellets from "slings".
If doing so, it would make sense to have some kind of 'trigger release' as you do with a fishing line (when you let it slip off your finger... so giving more control/accuracy... but the weight of the projectile may make this challenging on the finger!!
Great video! I agree with everything you said. It seems crazy to me that the staff sling was forgotten and was not handed down through generations of mayhem minded boys like the throwing arrow is. Thanks for the shout-out at the end!
I know what you are getting at, but actually I doubt it would work. I have tried similar things and it generally drives them into the ground at your feet or tangles, but I will be revisiting this topic
@@tods_workshop Maybe a staff with a metal ring at the end to avoid the snag potential of flexing rope? I guess the barb design would be crucial if that's where the ring catches it.
Always good to see the staff sling getting some love, I have found that if you tune your staff sling to throw relatively flat in a neutral stance, you can rotate at your hips like an archer to engage targets at a variety of ranges.
Something that might be interesting would be to tie a small piece of cordage to the plumbata with a loop on the other end. Alternatively, forking the throwing stick tip might allow it to hold it behind the weight. You might see significantly more power and accuracy. A staff sling was the first ancient weapon I made as a kid, the Atlatl coming soon after. One oddity I always found was despite humanity’s penchant for weird combo weapons, I’ve never seen a staff sling/polearm hybrid.
I made a sling out of a covid facemask. it works very well for throwing the ball for the dog. Maybe a shorter sling for the plumbara, because they need time to arrest the flopping and since the long sling gives a long low shot, it doesn't allow height for that.
Great tutorial. I was wondering if you could experiment with the one handed version that some medieval iconography shoes, basically the same but thrown with one hand with a short stick. Im curious to how it performed.
I am convinced those were misinterpretations of the sling, like david and goliath, david is said to wield a sling and a staff or cane. But late medieval art shows him with a short one handed staff sling and a cane together or only a one handed staff sling. This is fter slings have fallen out of favour but staff slings are used in siege warfare still.
I've grown more fond of the lacrosse stick. They definitely require more skill to make (ie some boiling water and oven mitts to bend a hook, and some barebones weaving ability to make the net; it's not much more skill, but it's not completely negligible), and they're not quite as powerful, but they're much less fiddly once you dial in the net tension, and with some practice you can scoop up a stone from the ground to reload significantly faster. And in battle you can catch your enemies' stones and return to sender.
When I think about throwing darts from a staff sling I imagine it very differently, with a cord affixed to the back end of the dart and then going out straight to loop around the notch of the staff. It would make the cord trail out like a streamer behind the dart, but it would be a lot less awkward than trying to fit them in the pouch. You would probably have to use a bigger dart though, as I feel like the cord streaming behind would create too much drag for it to be worth much with plumbata, and how much benefit you'd be getting from all that might not be worth it.
That's really neat. As a longcasting fisherman, we use a somewhat similar type of mechanical advantage to propel 4 oz weights 100 or more yards. The total energy is about twice a 38 revolver generates.
I made a staff sling, I am planning on casting 1/2 pound lead balls to use as ammo for it. I was looking for a haversack to carry about 20 of these, which would still be 10 lbs.
I would bet pre-greek. The separation of the fly and the anchor on the staff is actually important relative to the sling and shot size. Speaking of shot, these can throw multiple stones at the same time. Its actually a fairly common design for herding in Africa... commonly called a shepherd's sling.
If you do a Google image search for 'hoopak', mine is the one lying on the grass with a golf ball. It doesn't throw perfectly straight, it is biased slightly to the release side but apart from that it works great.
About a decade ago I made a... regular sling out of some scrap wire, a cliff bar wrapper, and a little bit of electrical tape. That thing easily sent 7/8ths nuts through 5/8ths OSB. Good times on a slow job-site.
"Oi, you have a licence for that staff sling?" In all seriousness, this video alone has given me some great ideas on how to make one. Thank you for sharing this!
The street I grew up on was planted with crabapple trees, we'd cut a long straight flexible branch, sharpen the tip, and impale a crabapple on it. Then by whipping the branch overhead, the apple would be flung at very high speed, and easily go over the house on the opposite side of the street. We'd have crabapple fights with the neighbors. That's a lovely rondel dagger by the way, they were specifically designed to penetrate chain maille by forcing open the links.
Great vid Todd. I made a sling last year and marvelled at the velocity of the thing. So this morning I followed your instructions and made a staff sling. It is horrific. The thing hurls golf ball sized rocks like a bloody 500NE....complete with a satisfying swoosh.
Arborist's throw-line would work great for this. Being made from dyneema (generally), it's extremely strong and offers almost no stretch. On top of that, many of the types available are platted in such a way as to facilitate easy splicing. Knots are fine; splices are better. The brummel splice, for example, is a very easy to install loop that can be added to the end of any platted cord. I believe these were also used in volleys, historically(?). So the accuracy of any given individual would become a lot less important, in that context.
I finally know what to make with the piece of scrap leather I have sitting around from another project. Now I just need to decide what (or who...?) needs to get hit from very far away with a rock. 😂
Ive seen depictions of sling staffs used in the Early Middle Ages alongside slings, but they seem to disappear from military use by the High Middle Ages without comment. Did they simply remain a rural peasant weapon against animals and attackers, so had a limited place in the battlefield? Or were they superseded by the similar pellet crossbow that had become a common hunting weapon by the Renaissance?
Small tip for your technique when trying to generate power in the swing - keep your right and left arm rigid and straight, right arm at 12 left arm at 2 with the staff directly between your shoulders like you were splitting wood. Lean back and engage your core before driving your left arm down as if you were trying to punch yourself in the stomach, your right arm wants to remain as rigid as possible while pivoting at the shoulder. You'll generate far more tip speed this way than you ever can by using the far more natural feeling punching/pulling motion and speed is everything when it comes to ballistics
Thanks and I will have a go with your suggestion. Interestingly I have a film coming with Michael the javelin thrower and he does a weird (at least to me) think with his core muscles too
I love the staff sling. I'd really like to see you try with different forms for the cast. I notice you put your left foot forward and keep it there. but I really wonder if you could generate more power by stepping through the cast with the right foot and driving through.
Back in the 90s my society started messing with slings which led to staff slings. I was gifted a staff sling and took it home to practise. Where i lived was directly behind a park where i walked my dogs. I thought this was a great idea for throwing balls for the Dogs to fetch. I used a Golf Ball. I slung the Golf ball from an open area towards an open area across the park. I watched as the Golf Ball sailed away nearly completing the whole width of the park,across a footpath and into a wooded area behind houses on the other perimeter. Of course the Dog ahd lost sight of the ball and i decided that using a staff sling with a Golf Ball wasn't such a good idea. I was impressed with the distance i achived with out much in the way of training. Imagine what damage lead shot or smooth river pebbles could do at that distance. Try the Plumbata like a French Arrow?
@@zimzob Of course i used tennis balls and they still went a long way but i saw people with Golf clubs and balls and decided to use the Golf Balls. However, if my Dog couldn't follow the ball there was no point in slinging them in the first place. I id get some healthy exercise walking round finfing the Golf balls
Would it make sense to carve the hand end a bit, so you could be sure you are holding it around the right way without looking? Maybe a flat at the front? Or does the loading action mean it is entirely unlikely for you to not hold the pole with the release notch in the wrong direction?
I always thought about a weapon like this when going fishing. We use 2.10m to 2,40m rods to cast lures about 100g - 200g more than 50-100 meters, sometimes we must hold back to not cast over the lake and hit the other margin. We can also be quite accurate, like aiming between tree branches to get to specific parts of the lake.
I rate these as one of the essential survival devices if one ever needs to hunt food and has little to no equipment to hand. I learned how to use these as a boy--they were used by the Romans, and are quite accurate with a little practice. They used then to throw darts called Plumbata, and they also threw lead balls with a hole in them to make them spin and sing as they flew. Quite terrifying. |A shower of Plumbata, either from a basket lobbed out of a trebuchet or a happy band of staff-slingers, would penetrate much of the light armour of the day. Your Trebuchet was not a Roman one--they were on wheels or slid easily on a greased set of rails. That increases the range by about thirty percent, because the frame rushed forward as it releases the missile. Make a model and try it for yourself..
Timing is incredible! Just started playing mount and blade viking conquest and was interested in these strange slings on sticks 😅 Very interesting, thanks! Will try to make one next time I'm camping.
:-) I was waiting until the end of the video to suggest Plumbata, but you know what the crowd wants. NIce! HOw about just tying a string around a plumbata , tying a loop that works from the Notch and let a plumbata launch with a string still attached , replace the entire string and pouch with just a plumbata suspended on a string that slips off the notch.
slings are so much fun. If you happen to have or go by an apple tree with unripe apples, just take a longish fresh stick and jam it in an apple. You can easily get so much force in the apple that it can fly over nearby tall trees and buildings.
Yeah, they are totally effective. We built a shitty one in woodworking class in 6th grade. Toyed around afterwards and managed to throw a golf ball sized stone over the entire school building (because kids are functional idiots), into the yard during recess, as we did not understand how effective it would be. By the mercy of the old ones no one was hit.
Staff slings can throw heavy stuff easily but I haven't seen one reach the speeds and ranges of a sling. But the staff sling can be used in narrow spaces or in a line formation unlike a sling. For this I think they would be used mainly in sieges.
Agreed. but for me I think another benefit is that you have to be skilled to use a sling reasonably, but relatively unskilled people can still use a staff sling effectively
I used to throw stones through barn boards as a teenager. It's probably best that I didn't know about the staff sling. I love knowing about it now however. Thanks.
It was only a matter of time before Tod turned himself into a trebuchet.
M.P.T. = man portable trebuchet
Was about to make this comment. It reminds me of the "Zima blue" episode from Love Death & Robots.
Todsformers! More than meets the eye! Todsformers! Siege engines in disguise!
Look morty, I turned myself into a trebuchet morty, Im trebuchet Tom! Wubbalubbadubdub
"Yeah, ok, yeah. The truth is- I AM Trebuchet man" - Tod
He's like a Bob Ross of medieval weaponry. Always encouraging and happy how things turn-out.
@jeremyyerger7527 When you want to turn your enemies alizarin crimson :~P
And right here we'll put a happy little trebuchet.
Trebuchets are made from trees... so it's not a far fetched idea 🤔
"rock to the face, a happy little accident" 😅
Thanks - and I believe that so much of the medieval stuff was built by people that had specialist skills; yes, but their available tools and technology were generally pretty basic so given the right direction and most people can do most of it
Good stuff. There is a school of thought that the proper staff sling is a bendy stick, much like a bow stave, that curves forwards (the opposite from the one you use in the earlier parts of this video). As you sling with it, it straightens out, and then returns to its forward curve, supposedly adding power to the shot. I don't know whether this actually works, though, and would like to see it proven.
As for changing string length, I'm not convinced. In a siege, perhaps, but if a man is fighting an open battle, where the range of the shot will vary unpredictably and sometimes quickly, one length will have to do. I find that if I want a flatter trajectory, I need just drop my front hand during the slinging action and this does the trick.
As for stick length, many depictions show them shorter - about broom handle length seems to be the commonest, but this may be an artefact of medieval drawing. They were not reliable with scale.
One point that I think you missed out here is that staff slings don't seem to add range to a slinger. Instead, the big difference is the mass of the projectile. Great for chucking grenades over a city wall.
Smaller projectile, without the weight being significantly lower, will add range. Not necessarily a lot, but if you have a regular even 5-10m from it (using a smaller projectile if you want that range) would certainly make a difference in siege situations, helping to overcome range advantages from height. So I think having large stones, fist-sized and larger, as well as using regular sling stones would both make sense. Just like with a bow and the many kinds, the different string tensions and arrow weights and shaft thickness, let alone heads...having multiple choices for different situations is generally the best choice. So long as they are easy to acquire, like a big stone or a smaller, shaped stone (or lead bullet). Obviously there is a finite limit to that, but if you are going to be using slings anyway (not that they were in MASSIVE use in all of the middle ages, but they sure had their place), extra height and leverage are going to add some range.
I suppose I have you to blame for my staff slinging obsession. I made one after your instructions during the first year of covid and I have to say it has been one of my favorite re-enactment projects. I even went out and bought the tunic, belt, and cap to fit that late-Roman period. It took a little longer to get used to the shepherd's sling (I don't doubt I'm still more dangerous to friend than foe at this point) but hopefully these things come with practice.
You might consider slinging things other than stone. For example, Apache stars. Which were just two sticks tied into a cross, with sharp points and weight added.
@@johnyricco1220 Or pots of burning pitch or ceramic pots filled with gunpowder.
@@johnyricco1220 Caltrops?
They are great if you have high energy dogs and want to throw balls further and are a lot cheaper to make than some of the launchers at the pet store.
Might as well just have a standard sling for stuff like that. You can just put it in your pocket and don't have to deal with a staff (assuming you don't regularly walk with a stick as is)
@@RhodokTribesman yeah but then you miss out on the joy of a husky or malagator running off with the big stick.
...puts dog in sling.
"Hey uou, stop that! That's animsl cruelty"
"What, no, my dog is too lazy. I have to get him to the ball."
@@thecreweofthefancy Haha, fair
I've been looking for a good kitten launcher myself.
The filming location by the river, framed by the tree, such an awesome and creative touch to the video
Very ray mears
Glad you liked it. Lucky to have it at the bottom of my garden
Clearly you are blessed to live in a gorgeous part of the country
I have a walking stick (made from a broom stick) that I cut a couple of grooves in, that I can attach my sling to. I've been able to throw rocks about the size of my fist, about 80-100 yards.
I've been carrying a sling in my pocket since 2016, and occasionally toss a few rocks, but I don't practise regularly.
Will you be at the next protest march ? 😂
@@colintuffs568 Now that's an idea... LOL
My walking stick used to be a tree, and its core makes it a perfect staff for this. It's even the right height. I ought to rig it and see how it works.
You were absolutely NOT the first person to add plumbata to a sling. Just the first SOBER person.
Possibly the first person to survive!
I thought you just used good old roman Pvc tube for that !
Who said he was sober?
They’re all just atlatls. People have been using those since the Stone Age.
And that’s how a plumbus is made.
The slow motion parts are a great illustration on how the thing works!
Thanks
Some people actually believe this is what David used on Goliath. When he comes out, Goliath says, "Am I a dog that you come at me with staves?" Note that it's staves, plural. We know David had a shepherd's staff. If the second staff was a staff sling, and the "smooth stone" from the river was sized for a staff sling, it explains how David knocked him senseless despite the helmet.
Interesting point. The scripture mentions David’s staff and Goliath says “sticks” in a modern translation. We do not know of course exactly which type of sling. The only thing is the staff sling is an area weapon, not a precise weapon.
Still a regular sling is very powerful. I’ve seen other videos demonstrating helmets being completely dented in. And since David’s stone sank deep into Goliath’s forehead it’s easy to think the helmet didn’t cover that area.
I think this is a red herring and that he would have had a staff and a sling. A staff sling is just not needed by a shepherd (I think David was a shepherd?) and a regular sling would be far more useful and of course a staff is always useful for this and that. Overthinking I think
Absolutely not a Bible guy but this tracks better then the other version
@@tods_workshop But you just showed how easy it is to attach a sling to any old stick. The 23rd Psalm, written by David, mentions the shepherd's staff and rod. Do you think shepherds who relied on the staff, rod, and sling in their day to day life never figured out that they could attach the sling to the end of the long staff or the shorter rod to get more leverage?
I don't know if I believe the theory either, but it provides an interesting alternative view of the story. I've seen at least a half dozen videos of people testing shepherd's slings on helmets in an attempt to prove the validity of the story. A palm sized stone weighing close to a kilo completely changes the calculus from a traditional sling bullet.
In the end, that's what good science is, adjusting variables and considering all possibilities. When I was doing my thesis work on ballistics, I fired countless rounds of varying caliber, from various styles of firearms, through various test media, all to validate a single premise.
So for the sake of science, I think we need to see a big rock hit a helmet 😁
2 pounds please, now get on the bus...
It's basically a hand trebuchet, or rather, a trebuchet is a big and mechanized staff sling.
Its a personal traction trebuchet
My thoughts, too. He kept saying this is like a trebuchet, but considering the evolution of it, they finally developed the walking crane to be able to build a siege weapon out of the staff sling.
exactly
A trebuchet throwing fireballs is never gratuitous!
Love the translation.
Quite. I have another yet to be filmed one coming upon soon too
👏👏👏
@@tods_workshop And, Tod, did you know that exploding cannonballs from trebuchets are Oh So Fun, too? (hint)
@tods_workshop Since you are not afraid of the phrase 'against my better judgment', do you happen to have a fire retardant gambeson and some flaming sling stones you could film?
Staff slings have even been used in modern warfare to toss hand grenades. It's such a versatile weapon.
My first thought, watching this video: "This would be great to toss hand grenades...!" Unfortunately, I am apparently too late to patent this idea 🤔
@@roelandvandaal1052 I don't think patenting would do much 😆
People would just make those in a pinch, often guerilla fighters and such, making improv weapons, so probably without easy access to a patent office 🤔
molotov cocktail
@@markhensel1843 That would be interesting
I was thinking street protests and cs grenades, mind blowing to see it's actually happened.
I'm 64 and handicapped, but I think I HAVE TO make one of these!
Just from the thumbnail, I immediately thought of an atlatl, or spear-thrower. I got to try one when a docent came out to the primitive campground my family and I were camping at the Sage Creek primitive campground in Badlands National Park, in South Dakota, USA. (I was really pleased that the Park took the effort to do this: the campground is free to camp in, and more than 30 miles from Park headquarters; a third of the distance being gravel road.) Trying out a tool that Native Americans used for thousands of years for hunting was especially exciting in this beautiful location, in part because, not more than a few hundred feet away, a huge male bison was grazing.
How many bricks / spears did it take to ensure Bison steaks for dinner ?
[What? OF COURSE I'm envious ...... That sounds pretty idyllic]
You show us the effect of string length on launch angle. Did you detect other effects, such as on range or ease of use?
Yes it changes range because the angle of launch changes, but not really on ease of use. I suppose a longer sling 'wobbles' a bit more when loading so you can fumble the load a bit more regularly, but in throwing there is no difference
Finally a video about these. Staff slings and lever spears are such under appreciated weapons.
It would be interesting to see Matt Easton try this out too next time you meet.
Lindybeige made a video of them about 6 years ago
That's impressive. Sticks and stones CAN break your bones!
For sure
Yet bizarrely Two Tier Kier would rather lock you up for words
(Or shouting at Dogs)
@@Farweasel "Yet bizarrely Two Tier Kier would rather lock you up for words
(Or shouting at Dogs)"
You are being stupid. It's pathetic.
I made a staff sling a while ago, took a set of old pool balls and made a silicone mold of them, filled the mold with type s mortar, and made perfectly spherical giant knobs of rock. Brutal impacts once you figure it out
Tasty
That’s a great idea. I originally tuned in as this seemed the perfect device for clearing stones out of my sheep pasture. But with repeatable weight ammo this could be great for long range target practice. Wondering how long to take down a dead tree now.
The Roman's greatly valued their Bellaric Auxilliary specialist Slingers
They used smoothly cast lead bullets which were devasting - Faster than their arrows & a flatter trajectory.
Remember to ensure the area is VERY well ventilated when you try this 🙄
I made one of these when I was 13, flinging snowballs 10-40m was entirely possible, with the short range ones being nearly head sized IIRC. It also made up for the winter clothing reduced mobility.
Me and my friends would make these and would test fling rocks in the obly place near us, a field with a playground at the end and a pavilion at the other end
We would fling rocks from the pavilion not thinking we would reach the playground but we managed to clear over the playground with one shot
Problem was we didnt have any fabric or anything so my shoddyly put together pouch tied with the rope would have the rocks fall out constantly and shoot backwards
An Autumnal alternative is to impale windfall apples on the end of a straight, flexible, 2-3metre long, Hazel stem (about 5cm at base, down to about 1.5cm at end).
These "Apple Slings", in the hands of adolescent boys, can launch apples over 100metres on occasion, though they are somewhat unreliable in their release timing.
Andrew and I never perfected the release. Just as well, perhaps. 😀
@@spamcrud5639 One of the rules of mechanical engineering is to never rely upon friction as more than a quality unless you can control how much friction.
The way the sling induces a backspin in the rock (seen at 3:35) is exactly how baseballs are thrown and what makes them fly in a straighter line than a purely parabolic trajectory. So you're sort of right with that it makes you throw like a baseball player.
Just remember folks, Sling stones have a magnetic attraction for windows at unfeasibly long range!
And people - be careful and in honesty treat it like any other ranged weapon. Make sure you can see everything where it is likely to go and that includes the possibility of backwards or upwards
So true. Flashback to my childhood.
A walnut or golf ball used as a sling stone will ricochet off of a tree and return at mach jesus.
Its a hand held trebuche so if you wanna make effective one you just need to follow golden rule of 3.75:1 for staff length and make a hook at the end bent to a 30 degrees(you can use nail,just cut off head and smooth it with a file).
Your hand serves as pivot point so from one hand to another is 1 ratio after that its 3.75 times the length of that distance until the sling notch. As of sling length it should be 80% of the said 3.75 ratio length.
Its a great thing for throwing tennis balls for dogs .
If you dont have fancy leather best thing to use is bycicle inner tubing.You dont even need to drill a hole ,just tie 2 knots on a sling rope half a cm apart ,place it on a tubing and then wrap in the middle of the two string knots few loops of thinner string that you cut around 10 cm and tighten it strong(use superglue to hold knot on that string and it will never fall apart). When placing knots on inner tube make sure that you go down from edge 2-3 cm.
This way you can also make hand held shepards sling that works exactly as those made by weaving but its 10 times faster and nylon tubing wont let stone slip.
good to know
I would argue that may well be a good start point, but my experience with trebuchets definitely changes these ratios depending on the weights thrown and counterweight mass as well as pivot distances, so as a guide yes perhaps, but not as a definitive answer
Plumbata you have to modify them to have a hook and just use a piece of string on the staff sling.
Agreed, but I just wanted to try it with standard plumbata, which I think would have been their first stop. More coming on the possibles with plumbata
@@tods_workshop At that point of the video, I think your field became a hard hat area. 😄
I'm defiantly interested in seeing more plumbata and staff sling.
Hi Tod, I've been wanting to make a Staff Sling for a while now, this video will prove invaluable in helping me get there. Thank you Sir.
Good - go forth and make, but do it safely and use it responsibly please
Everyone loves staff slings, they're are just dead easy. Nice work Todd!
Seeing a very skilled bladesmith using a cheap utility knife to whittle a sapling instead of using a knife, he made himself or at least a decent commercial carving knife.
it's all about accessibility
It was a demo to encourage the non-skilled average Joe. He was being sensible and doesn't need to flex.
ruolbu has it. I try to make the tool kits I use minimal and accessible
The most positivity someone could show while building deadly weapons. I love you dude!
16:53 Tod went full Skyrim throwing the plumbata. Two knee shots in a row.
Instead of changing the sling length to change the trajectory, a more simple way is to have a second release notch, or peg as it's called in the video, cut at a different angle. One notch for distance and another for a flatter trajectory.
A tip for those who want to try slinging but can't get the hang of a shepherd sling, is to make a staff sling with a short stick to use one handed.
I remember reading some time ago that they were used as late as the Spanish Civil War although the projectiles used then were grenades.
About the damage from slings being more effective than arrows: He's probably talking about internal injuries, internal bleeding, organ trauma, etc. These things were poorly understood in ancient times, and even seemed magical to some people. An arrow might actually do more damage, but it's easier to find the wound and treat it.
internal bleeding proc
Both internal injuries as well as things like trying to determine exactly where the bullet struck. They do so much damage that taking one to the upper cheek, for instance, would take work to find, that side of the skull would be so damaged. Did it hit the eye, or the maxillary, or maybe the nose and then slid into the eye. Even a regular sling does this, but the extra size means the wounds were just a complete mess. Same reason treating mace wounds to the head was considered almost futile.
They cause bone fragmentation as well, and they didn't understand well that bone can cause infection itself, because of course they didn't understand vectors.
Crushing damage, splintered bone, smashed eye sockets.
As a long-time historical archer, I am biased, but even I will say after what I've saw on channels such as Tod's or Archaic Arms', that if a source says "the sling is more effective than arrows", I'd not even argue the point, even if - probably based on a lot of factors - a difference might be there one way or another. However, more importantly - it isn't even about lethality. The weapon "just" needs to make sure that the guy will not participate in the engagement anymore that day, and a sling is _fully_ capable of making sure of that. Even a simple thrown rock in some cases, if less so of course.
@@AkosJaccik This is such a hard point to get across to people who have an interest in history, historical weaponry, warfare etc, but have no interest in doing the research into the mundane details of war.
The realistic accounts of battle casualties that are like "3,000 wounds, 120 dead". Because most of the people with interest, but not DEEP interest, play games and watch movies and shows that depict mass deaths. That everyone dies from arrows. That a few people are laying around screaming on the battlefield, but mostly it is dead people. And no, it is the exact opposite, with very few exceptions. This is true of all weaponry until automatic guns.
If a person takes an arrow to the clavicle, and they are wearing a byrnie and coif so it breaks rings but doesn't penetrate gambeson, but it shatters the bone...that guy isn't fighting anymore. He will probably survive, but he sure can't use a bow, or a spear, or lance that day. And that means the arrow worked.
Well Tod I’ve made several staff slings from hazel staffs, my latest one is solid fibre glass. It is the bottom section of a 7’6” spinning rod which I got in the 1950s. my ancient stiff body I can throw a hens egg size stone 100 yards now mutch younger guy would beat that. It really amuses my young grand kids what silly granddad gets up. One of my grand daughter’s 8 year old can really whack a stone over 40 to 50 yards.
advanced settings, tod's really prepping for his isekai adventure
Yes, I did enjoy the trebuchet. As always
I always thought that was the type of Sling David used to bring down Goliath because the Shepherds of his Day always had a cane as well
A normal sling can kill it doesn't have to be a big one .
Funny enough a lot of medieval depiction of David and Goliath show a staff sling
It's a nice idea, but frankly it doesn't make sense. One of the main purposes for using a sling by hand and not by staff is control and mobility - a shepherd needs to be able to sling at all angles and distances to herd their sheep or kill predators, as well as perhaps hunt birds or small critters for food while pasturing their flock, and frankly the staff sling doesn't have that level of control, while a hand sling has it all, as well as an incredible store of power that most people underestimate. I've sent ~150g egg-sized stones some 170-200 meters using a sling by hand. And don't forget that the staff sling only first comes into literature in Vegetius' works, while hand slings have been in literature and artwork for a thousand years prior, or some 7000 years prior if the infamous Çatalhöyük slinger artwork is indeed a slinger. And there were the two slings themselves found in Tutankhamun's tomb from around 1325 BC.
And as for depictions of David and Goliath in the Medieval - a mix of staff slings and hand slings are seen throughout manuscripts, but it's far from a balanced mix: David is almost always shown with a hand sling and his staff is either on the ground or in his other hand, or entirely absent.
Shepherds had crooks right up until they adopted the quad bike as a method of getting between fields, and then only because you can't fit a 6-foot stick on the quad. You can buy tourist merchandise of a yorkshire dales shepherd leaning on a crook while seeing to a sheep. That's my great-uncle Frank, and I think he's still alive.
They had all sorts of uses in the field, but mostly were something to lean on while watching the sheep do sheep things, and to test the ground before stepping on it; nothing's worse than facing a long walk with a boot full of mud.
Yep. The greater distance gives David more chances. Goliath wore a helmet of brass, which means there's an advantage to conking him with a big rock. Had a shield, too, which means conking his shield a few times might have been necessary, which definitely means big rocks are better.
I had to chuckle.
You make all kinds of knives but use a store bought razor knife. 😂
I know. I thought about that, but it makes it more accessible to more people.
@@tods_workshop It makes me cringe. I always think you're going to snap a blade. You're right about the accessibility although I'd use my Mora.
Love the fustibal, I've made several over the years. For shorter distances, you can attach the leather pouch directly to the shaft, and use a metal ring as the slipknot to fit over the tip. To use baseball terms (since I used to test mine on a baseball diamond) You can stand at 2nd base, and hit the rubber home base with consistency, with that design. In medieval times, the pouch and ring were made of metal (a ring for the slipknot and chainmail for the pouch), so that they could throw fireballs at opposing ships' sails and rigging.
I would like to see the staff sling throw some kind of bladed lead projectile, like Todd's bronze mace head cast in lead. That could be fun.
Or even in bronze!
@@darrinrebagliati5365look up the Roman Plumbata
well, the Ancient Greeks were hurling lead oblong projectiles with inscriprions on them. Taking into consideration how dense lead is the damge would have been devastating!
@@TeutonicEmperor1198 would the damage have been less if there were no inscriptions (smile)?
@@bobjoatmon1993 If we are talking about physical damage, no. If we are talking about the emotional damage the victim felt when he learned that the lead bullet which had struck him said something like "take it" or "in your face" then yes, the incription damaged him a lot.
There is a related Chinese weapon used to throw javelins. What you need is a section of bamboo, at least 10 feet long, really the longest you can handle. Then you put a hook on the javelin, behind the spear head. This is a crew served weapon. One man would stand with the bamboo staff over his shoulder and another man hooks the javelin.
I wonder if you could try it with the Swiss arrows you made.
This feels like it should be a way earlier invention.
And with it being so organic it would just rot away
The atlatl is basically the same premise but for hurling spears, and it goes back about 30,000 years.
@@Loalrikowki and isn't the sling like a really early weapon
They probably were invented earlier. But it is a matter us being able to prove that.
@@bjam89 we have no clue, evidence of slings preserves incredibly poorly bc rope degrades easily and ammunition, especially early on, would probably just have been rocks, which cannot be recognised as sling ammunition unless specifically stashed into some sort of ammunition cache.
I think the actual hard evidence goes back no further than 9,500 years ago with a cave painting in Turkey; which makes it possibly *significantly* younger than both spear throwers and bows (30,000 and 60,000 years respectively); but it might also be the same age as spear throwers; the ideas behind the sling are very similar to those of the Atlatl, and any people capable of inventing one of these weapons could also easily have invented invented the other.
It's hard to say when the sling was invented but it's not impossible for it to be the younger of the weapons; bows were our main missile weapon for a long time, and eventually the Atlatl was invented as a way to deliver a larger and deadlier (but conceptually very similar) projectile.
The sling may have come significantly later because nobody was seriously thinking about using plain rocks as a hunting tool.
There is definite merit to the idea that the sling evolved more as a defensive tool for agricultural peoples (to chase off animals, potentially from very far away; the sling can reach much farther than bows of the the time could) and only gained popularity as a hunting weapon for small game later; nomadic peoples who survive in no small part by hunting would probably not see much use in developing a weapon like the sling bc the bow and Atlatl are significantly better hunting weapons for the prey size humans preferred.
@Loalrikowki Came to the comments to say the same thing...using a stick to make your arm a longer lever was ancient by Roman times. I've got a modem one that uses aluminum darts...haven't practiced with it in years, but it's capable of good accuracy at surprisingly long ranges if you work at it. The sling stick is so simple I'll definitely have to make one at some point lol
The real winner here is the amazing guy that cuts your grass !!! 😂 that is beautiful lines man 🎉
I'd want to put a spear tip on the bottom, That way it doubles as a melee in case I get crept up on. You're already holding it with the bottom half of the stick facing your target, Would simply require a swift grip change to pivot to thrusting.
I have always contended these are the perfect adventurers sidearm. Everyone is fighting about bow storage, and making a bow quickdraw while having quiver and backpack and cloak to fight with. I say, have a stick with a spear point on the bottom and a sling staff with you. A pouch of lead balls or rocks, or grab a rock as you need it and you can hunt for free, defend yourself against medium sized threats and have a spear ready while your sword is safe under your cloak. This is apparently a much hated idea on youtube.
@@littlekong7685 how about a godendag head instead of a spear heard.
@@littlekong7685The only problem would be using this with other people around or as a unit. The potential for horrible injuries would be very real.
I'd be good with a rounded wooden club head or stone club.
@@Schizopantheist hence why it is best for a solo adventurer as their hiking stick/hunting tool/emergency 2 handed weapon/siege tool.
Tod makes beautiful, functional knives. I have several. What does he use? Stanley. Love it 🤣🤣🤣
Slightly more effective at close range when compared to a bollock dagger or rondel dagger.
I've been OBSESSED with these lately, so I'm pumped to watch this! 😅
FINALLY, someone talking about this powerful weapon ! It was a GREEK invention - 400 BCE You can have a Cup at the end, for more control, and more level travel.
I always wondered why they didn't have Staff Sling Light Cavalry.
I am not sure about the cup at the end. It may give more control but will undoubtedly reduce distance
@@tods_workshop Give it a try, I think you'll be surprised by the control and thus the extra power you can put into the throw.
ngl I half expected Tod to Lawn Dart himself using plumbata with a staff sling
So did I, hence the extreme caution
Were you badly hurt?
Staff sling :D Favourite weapon of Kenders in "Dragonlance" series. Megusta :)
That's where I remembered it from. Thank you.
YES! I love Staff Slings. They've got that punch and crunch.
Originally called the "Sheppard's staff" or Sheppard's crook".This is how they defended against wolves, lions and people. It is theorized that David slew Goliath with this, and now it's become a lot more likely than the legend of hand sling.
But, I'm still puzzled by the famous Balearic slingers, did they really just have slings?
In one roman battlefield in northern Spain, archeologists have found 10's of thousands of led pellets from "slings".
Its a very similar action to casting a fishing rod. I wonder if using a springy flexible stick would therefore add more speed to the projectile.
Physics suggest yes. But at probably more cost to accuracy and durability than it's worth.
I feel like it would be harder to control the exact point of release and therefore affect accuracy.
A thin bit of green bamboo would probably work.
Imagine using a fiberglass fishing rod to make a sling thrower.
If doing so, it would make sense to have some kind of 'trigger release' as you do with a fishing line (when you let it slip off your finger... so giving more control/accuracy... but the weight of the projectile may make this challenging on the finger!!
Great video! I agree with everything you said. It seems crazy to me that the staff sling was forgotten and was not handed down through generations of mayhem minded boys like the throwing arrow is. Thanks for the shout-out at the end!
Hi Todd,
Use 1 rope with a loop that hooks onto the barb of a plumbata and it will self-release the same way the staff peg does😉👍🍻
I'd love to see Todd test one of those!
I know what you are getting at, but actually I doubt it would work. I have tried similar things and it generally drives them into the ground at your feet or tangles, but I will be revisiting this topic
@@tods_workshop Maybe a staff with a metal ring at the end to avoid the snag potential of flexing rope? I guess the barb design would be crucial if that's where the ring catches it.
I would tie a string to the plumbata to loop on the the staffs notch so it can release the same way as the sling.
Always good to see the staff sling getting some love, I have found that if you tune your staff sling to throw relatively flat in a neutral stance, you can rotate at your hips like an archer to engage targets at a variety of ranges.
OMG, it's Dragonlance's Kender's hoopak staff! Well... sort of.
Except a lot less annoying.
@@EriktheRed2023 Yap.
why are my keys missing
@@emilymiller7827 Oh, here they are, they fell to the ground, I was going to give them to you, but it must have slipped my mind.
Clicked on the video to see if this comment would be in here.
Something that might be interesting would be to tie a small piece of cordage to the plumbata with a loop on the other end. Alternatively, forking the throwing stick tip might allow it to hold it behind the weight. You might see significantly more power and accuracy.
A staff sling was the first ancient weapon I made as a kid, the Atlatl coming soon after. One oddity I always found was despite humanity’s penchant for weird combo weapons, I’ve never seen a staff sling/polearm hybrid.
I just wanted to try it in the first way I think they would have, but I will have another coming before too long with other ways
I made a sling out of a covid facemask. it works very well for throwing the ball for the dog.
Maybe a shorter sling for the plumbara, because they need time to arrest the flopping and since the long sling gives a long low shot, it doesn't allow height for that.
Anglers, especially surfcasters with their various casting techniques, have a big advantage here. 😁
Great tutorial. I was wondering if you could experiment with the one handed version that some medieval iconography shoes, basically the same but thrown with one hand with a short stick. Im curious to how it performed.
I am convinced those were misinterpretations of the sling, like david and goliath, david is said to wield a sling and a staff or cane. But late medieval art shows him with a short one handed staff sling and a cane together or only a one handed staff sling. This is fter slings have fallen out of favour but staff slings are used in siege warfare still.
Not seen one, but I can't see it working very well
I've grown more fond of the lacrosse stick. They definitely require more skill to make (ie some boiling water and oven mitts to bend a hook, and some barebones weaving ability to make the net; it's not much more skill, but it's not completely negligible), and they're not quite as powerful, but they're much less fiddly once you dial in the net tension, and with some practice you can scoop up a stone from the ground to reload significantly faster. And in battle you can catch your enemies' stones and return to sender.
When I think about throwing darts from a staff sling I imagine it very differently, with a cord affixed to the back end of the dart and then going out straight to loop around the notch of the staff. It would make the cord trail out like a streamer behind the dart, but it would be a lot less awkward than trying to fit them in the pouch.
You would probably have to use a bigger dart though, as I feel like the cord streaming behind would create too much drag for it to be worth much with plumbata, and how much benefit you'd be getting from all that might not be worth it.
Lol, I rewatched your second plumbata video and did what I was thinking of.
Tod Cutler - Plumbata salesman :D
That's really neat. As a longcasting fisherman, we use a somewhat similar type of mechanical advantage to propel 4 oz weights 100 or more yards. The total energy is about twice a 38 revolver generates.
Ah yes, the Personal Trebuchet
I love it
I suppose the limitation on this is carrying sufficient numbers of large rocks. It's probably most useful in static defence.
I made a staff sling, I am planning on casting 1/2 pound lead balls to use as ammo for it. I was looking for a haversack to carry about 20 of these, which would still be 10 lbs.
Or by a traveling rock collector!
I would bet pre-greek. The separation of the fly and the anchor on the staff is actually important relative to the sling and shot size. Speaking of shot, these can throw multiple stones at the same time. Its actually a fairly common design for herding in Africa... commonly called a shepherd's sling.
Ahhh, the Hoopak. Kender and Dragonlance forever...
If you do a Google image search for 'hoopak', mine is the one lying on the grass with a golf ball. It doesn't throw perfectly straight, it is biased slightly to the release side but apart from that it works great.
About a decade ago I made a... regular sling out of some scrap wire, a cliff bar wrapper, and a little bit of electrical tape.
That thing easily sent 7/8ths nuts through 5/8ths OSB.
Good times on a slow job-site.
Perfect for when the Zombies attack your demolished building site! 🙂
"Oi, you have a licence for that staff sling?"
In all seriousness, this video alone has given me some great ideas on how to make one. Thank you for sharing this!
please more fire balls. One is never enough.
Your wish could just be coming true.......
The street I grew up on was planted with crabapple trees, we'd cut a long straight flexible branch, sharpen the tip, and impale a crabapple on it. Then by whipping the branch overhead, the apple would be flung at very high speed, and easily go over the house on the opposite side of the street. We'd have crabapple fights with the neighbors.
That's a lovely rondel dagger by the way, they were specifically designed to penetrate chain maille by forcing open the links.
I know I can 😊
just made and tested mine this morning! (flung the stone about 40-45m on my forth try)
keep up the great work!
We will need a lisence to own a stick soon much lless a stick sling....
Every day is a school day at Todd's workshop, and today we learned it's a bad idea to put your hand through a jagged hole in plywood!
Actually I went into that knowing. If it had been thicker it would have been a hand trap, but at 6mm I made sure it was not to spiky
Sticks and string and rocks........ oh my! Outstanding, Tod!!
Great vid Todd.
I made a sling last year and marvelled at the velocity of the thing.
So this morning I followed your instructions and made a staff sling.
It is horrific.
The thing hurls golf ball sized rocks like a bloody 500NE....complete with a satisfying swoosh.
Arborist's throw-line would work great for this. Being made from dyneema (generally), it's extremely strong and offers almost no stretch. On top of that, many of the types available are platted in such a way as to facilitate easy splicing. Knots are fine; splices are better. The brummel splice, for example, is a very easy to install loop that can be added to the end of any platted cord.
I believe these were also used in volleys, historically(?). So the accuracy of any given individual would become a lot less important, in that context.
Wonderfull video!
The slow motion is super usefull to understand what's appening.
I made a long one that was around 7ish feet for giggles, and my friend threw a rock the size of a large grapefruit around 50 yards.
I started making one today and you are right, It's easy!
Good - keep going
One detail about the sling staff is the size of rock you can yeet at a target over a traditional sling. Mass of the projectile does matter.
I finally know what to make with the piece of scrap leather I have sitting around from another project. Now I just need to decide what (or who...?) needs to get hit from very far away with a rock. 😂
Ive seen depictions of sling staffs used in the Early Middle Ages alongside slings, but they seem to disappear from military use by the High Middle Ages without comment.
Did they simply remain a rural peasant weapon against animals and attackers, so had a limited place in the battlefield? Or were they superseded by the similar pellet crossbow that had become a common hunting weapon by the Renaissance?
Not sure why they disappeared - good question
Made one moments after watching this video, and the next day, I was whipping fist sized rocks 75 paces. Great idea, Tod. Thx for the motivation.
Small tip for your technique when trying to generate power in the swing - keep your right and left arm rigid and straight, right arm at 12 left arm at 2 with the staff directly between your shoulders like you were splitting wood. Lean back and engage your core before driving your left arm down as if you were trying to punch yourself in the stomach, your right arm wants to remain as rigid as possible while pivoting at the shoulder. You'll generate far more tip speed this way than you ever can by using the far more natural feeling punching/pulling motion and speed is everything when it comes to ballistics
Thanks and I will have a go with your suggestion. Interestingly I have a film coming with Michael the javelin thrower and he does a weird (at least to me) think with his core muscles too
@@tods_workshop look up terry edmonds distance casting for a more detailed view of the technique
I love the staff sling. I'd really like to see you try with different forms for the cast. I notice you put your left foot forward and keep it there. but I really wonder if you could generate more power by stepping through the cast with the right foot and driving through.
Back in the 90s my society started messing with slings which led to staff slings. I was gifted a staff sling and took it home to practise. Where i lived was directly behind a park where i walked my dogs. I thought this was a great idea for throwing balls for the Dogs to fetch. I used a Golf Ball. I slung the Golf ball from an open area towards an open area across the park. I watched as the Golf Ball sailed away nearly completing the whole width of the park,across a footpath and into a wooded area behind houses on the other perimeter. Of course the Dog ahd lost sight of the ball and i decided that using a staff sling with a Golf Ball wasn't such a good idea. I was impressed with the distance i achived with out much in the way of training. Imagine what damage lead shot or smooth river pebbles could do at that distance. Try the Plumbata like a French Arrow?
Use a tennis ball instead, easier to see and much safer than a golf ball.
@@zimzob Of course i used tennis balls and they still went a long way but i saw people with Golf clubs and balls and decided to use the Golf Balls. However, if my Dog couldn't follow the ball there was no point in slinging them in the first place. I id get some healthy exercise walking round finfing the Golf balls
Does using the it like a pick work differently?
So allowing the top hand to slide down the handle to gain momentum and in turn build torque?
Would it make sense to carve the hand end a bit, so you could be sure you are holding it around the right way without looking? Maybe a flat at the front? Or does the loading action mean it is entirely unlikely for you to not hold the pole with the release notch in the wrong direction?
Probably - good idea
I always thought about a weapon like this when going fishing. We use 2.10m to 2,40m rods to cast lures about 100g - 200g more than 50-100 meters, sometimes we must hold back to not cast over the lake and hit the other margin. We can also be quite accurate, like aiming between tree branches to get to specific parts of the lake.
I rate these as one of the essential survival devices if one ever needs to hunt food and has little to no equipment to hand. I learned how to use these as a boy--they were used by the Romans, and are quite accurate with a little practice. They used then to throw darts called Plumbata, and they also threw lead balls with a hole in them to make them spin and sing as they flew. Quite terrifying.
|A shower of Plumbata, either from a basket lobbed out of a trebuchet or a happy band of staff-slingers, would penetrate much of the light armour of the day.
Your Trebuchet was not a Roman one--they were on wheels or slid easily on a greased set of rails. That increases the range by about thirty percent, because the frame rushed forward as it releases the missile. Make a model and try it for yourself..
Not gonna lie, the plumbata bit had me terrified for your own safety, even more than the casual disregard for nettles. Great video.
Timing is incredible! Just started playing mount and blade viking conquest and was interested in these strange slings on sticks 😅
Very interesting, thanks! Will try to make one next time I'm camping.
I love it. I am making one
:-) I was waiting until the end of the video to suggest Plumbata, but you know what the crowd wants. NIce! HOw about just tying a string around a plumbata , tying a loop that works from the Notch and let a plumbata launch with a string still attached , replace the entire string and pouch with just a plumbata suspended on a string that slips off the notch.
Super cool, gonna go make one of these to play around with in the spring. Thanks Todd!
slings are so much fun. If you happen to have or go by an apple tree with unripe apples, just take a longish fresh stick and jam it in an apple. You can easily get so much force in the apple that it can fly over nearby tall trees and buildings.
Yeah, they are totally effective. We built a shitty one in woodworking class in 6th grade. Toyed around afterwards and managed to throw a golf ball sized stone over the entire school building (because kids are functional idiots), into the yard during recess, as we did not understand how effective it would be. By the mercy of the old ones no one was hit.
Staff slings can throw heavy stuff easily but I haven't seen one reach the speeds and ranges of a sling. But the staff sling can be used in narrow spaces or in a line formation unlike a sling. For this I think they would be used mainly in sieges.
Agreed. but for me I think another benefit is that you have to be skilled to use a sling reasonably, but relatively unskilled people can still use a staff sling effectively
I used to throw stones through barn boards as a teenager. It's probably best that I didn't know about the staff sling. I love knowing about it now however. Thanks.