4 Tips to ACTUALLY Fit Tires on Toyota IFS | 33s No BMC
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 เม.ย. 2023
- 4 commonly misunderstood things you can do to fit 33s (285/70R17) on Toyota without a body mount chop, and greatly minimize cutting on more aggressive setups like 35s (315/70R17, 35X12.5R17) and beyond.
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You are unequivocally the best technical offroading channel on TH-cam at the moment - no one else even comes close to the level of detail, care, information and effort as you do - thank you so much for contributing so much to this awesome hobby!
Wheel size/offset/spacing (all of that) has been something I've struggled with for years of messing with different platforms. This cleared up so much confusion.
The weird thing is that hes actually right unlike most other channels.
first time posters on TacomaWorld have just been silenced by a single video!... although watching this would require research...nevermind. HaHa!!
We have the same problem on Australian Hilux servers, but if they can't use the search bar, they're not likely to watch a video either. lol
Hey sorry I'm new here and I'm looking to fit 54s on my Tacoma, can anyone tell me where I can buy 19" shock spacers? My budget is $6
@Dirk Mohrmann it's sad I took you seriously. I need to stay away from some forums lol
Not just first time posters. Long time members who are seen as knowledgeable as well.
All those chads
Once again, the quality of your information, presentation style, and production values are second to none. Absolutely top-notch content!
Very few people on the internet these days produce correct information on tire size, suspension, etc. and so I can't tell you how refreshing it is to watch your videos. I wish more people would watch them. I got in an argument with a friend recently about the low backspace wheels on his jeep tj (3.5in) and how they were the reason the tire was rubbing the back of the wheel well when fully turned. He insisted that the wheel wells were poorly designed by jeep engineers and that they purposely made them too small to restrict owners from putting larger tires on.
People always think that manufacturers and product designers are intentionally doing things to screw over the customer. I work in manufacturing. We don’t. And in a related sense, yes “planned obsolescence” does occasionally happen for some products, but that term is way overused. Most things that people call planned obsolescence is just price point value engineering. We have to compete with other cheap products on the market. We can’t be cheaper and make something that lasts for 15 years, nor does our research say that most customers need a product that last for 30 years in most categories (which has someone that cares about sustainability, this guts me).
As an off-road suspension specialist this is best explanation ever ! And sometimes it’s hard to get customers new to the off-road world to understand this ! Awesome vid
You are 100% on the money. I put BFG 275’s on my stock 2020 TRD Off Road 4Runner with absolutely zero clearance problems… On the “factory wheels”. Keep up the great work & myth busting 😊
I fell for the “you need UCA to run bigger tires”
I used to run 265-70-17 on factory uca. Now with jba, I do rub. I was telling everyone that they do not help, and everyone was saying I was wrong.
Thank you for making great videos.
This is extremely well done and very much accurate across many platforms. Even Jeep. Wheel offset is critical along with your alignment settings. It’s common place to add more mods which all work together to hinder performance that you are after where less can be more in the end if you know what you are doing
Love the big tire & fender spacing breakdown. Wish I have this vid back in 2005 when I start modding my Tacoma for accommodating 37” BFG with 2.5” lift, flattened pinch weld, hammered in footwell, body mounts relocated, cut out fenders, mud-flaps removed, etc. has been fun! But your vid bring back memory😃
Mate I love your's engineering approach in contrary to slapping all the available gear. And you present the information in a very informative and factual yet interesting way. Keep on doing great job!
On my 2008 4Runner I went with 2” lift front and rear, jba uppers, superpro offset lowers, and 265/70r17 on stock wheels. Clearance is great.
I used to like big tires that stick out past the fenders and stuff the wheel wells, but as I’ve gotten older prefer more wheel travel and not slinging debris all over my vehicle. Not to mention going to a 285 would only give me 1/2” or so more ground clearance
Mechanical engineer here. I enjoy seeing you cut through all the myths and guesses with correct theory and data.
Im actually blown away by how technical yet easily digestable your information is... you deserve so many more subscribers!!!
Holy smokes did you do an amazing job at explaining things. As an engineer I knew there was more to it than just cutting. Your explanation plus video clips put it altogether in an easy to digest package. Subscribed!!
very nice vid. you forgot my knob where i need big tires and big lift to offset my small pp
Keep up the good work kai, I always show your videos to the ones new to IFS. Thanks for the dedication to the community.
I really enjoy your methodical and accurate technical description on every one of your videos.. Every Toyota owner needs to watch them, because event the not so mentally gifted can read through the picture book you present.. Great work again Kai!
Thank you for these videos! I'm happy to see/ hear you talk a little about spacers. Would love to see more regarding their use, good or bad. I love your videos and use them when planning upgrades to my Tacoma.
Excellent video, as always! Thanks for sharing the details on what's actually going on and cutting through the myths.
I wish I had your videos when starting to mod my Toyota way back when, I would have saved a lot of money 😂 Thanks again for another great video dispelling all the bad internet advice!
Complete guide on bigger wheels for IFS for dummies right here in this video. Thanks mate! A week of research wouldn’t have matched up to the experience and knowledge shared here. Lots of confusions and misconceptions got cleared watching your video. Subscribed !
Geeked out so hard! Hat tip to such a well done video that covers concepts that will break bro trucks minds. Kudos as the community will greatly benefit from this, laid out in an easy to understand fashion.
Another great vid as always! Articulation over lift has always been my main focus on my Trooper, especially being top heavy w/ a large RTT. That's why I'm going w/ a 255/85 on my stock 16" wheels. I gain ground clearance with no fitment issues, plus the "skinnier" tire shouldn't stress my drivetrain as much as a 285/75 tire.
Thats what i did for my first gen tundra and I love it. 33s which is perfect for my needs, gives me more clearance and not as much added weight. I seriously love 255s
I'm also going pizza cutters when I go to 33s on my 98 4Runner I also run only moderate lift (1.75") in the front so I can retain plenty of down travel.
I think about a year into off roading I started questioning doing "all the lift". and certainly in the last 6 months I eventually had enough pucker moments to accept hitting the armor in tradeoff for lower COG and better travel so I am less likely to roll on the super sketch stuff.
especially since there are so many 4x4s that only have like 4-5in travel stock.
@@christopherwilson9140 There's also the reduced wear on front end components factor. Extreme lift comes with extreme wear to basically everything that moves on the front end of an IFS. The only reason to go for that stuff is for the mall crawler status, it doesn't help offroad. And like you said just let the armor take some hits, if you have good aftermarket armor that's what it was made to do. If you really need more clearance you really should be doing long travel and unless you are doing really hard crawling then chances are you can get away without that very easily. Just 1.75" of lift gives me like 8.5-9" on my engine skid which is gravy as long as I choose lines properly.
I run 255/80r17 on my 2nd gen Tacoma with just a basic 2” lift and some OEM 4Runner wheels and have no rubbing whatsoever. Perfect tire size for IFS Toyotas! 255/75r17 is probably even better since it is significantly lighter and doesn’t necessitate a regear like the 255/80r17 does on my 4cyl Tacoma.
Best Logical Description of IFS tire/offset ramifications I have seen yet. Great job!
Great video and explanation of what going on with your suspension when trying to go bigger tyres
Awesome info as usual. I knew from research about wheel offset affecting clearance but didnt fully understand why. Thank you sir 🫡
I love the hard work and the detail you go into, very thorough and shows a lot of the small nuances of lifting/modifying a vehicle. It's always a balancing game and figuring out what needs to be tweaked to find the best balance between all factors, it may not always be expensive, or conversely easy to do, but it is worth the effort in my opinion.
I do have two things that I would point out from my experience with my own vehicle as well as customer's, generally your "static" tire clearance is easier to compensate for than your "compressed" tire clearance; which is where a lot of people run into issues. Using your friend Peter as an example, unless he's limited his up-travel, I can say with almost complete certainty that he's rubbing against the body mount when doing sharper turns on angled surfaces (such as driveways, ramps, etc.). This is because as you pointed out here and in other videos that there is more to the suspension/steering than just the wheel's Camber Angle, you need to also take into account the SAI (Steering Angle Inclination, sometimes referred to as "King-Pin Inclination" in some applications), and if you want to get really in the weeds the "Combined Angle" (sum of SAI and Camber vs. True Vertical).
Going back to Peter before I get too distracted by those angles, in his case; yes, he's clearing the 2nd Body Mount by a very thin margin while "static". But due to the nature of IFS and factoring in SAI, when the suspension is compressed, the caster will be reduced and positive camber is introduced into the assembly; particularly in situations where the wheel is being turned. This results in the usual compliant I see about rubbing or binding up of the tire on turns while going up or downhill (this was an annoying thing I fought when throwing 35x12.5R17's on my 4th gen, particularly since I had some specific goals in mind), unfortunately in many cases this is not something that's easy to balance given a person's set-up/budget/etc.
Which brings me into my second point, which is the nuance of the myth regarding needing Higher Caster. This is something that I realize I myself have failed to clearly explain when recommending fellow enthusiasts and customers to purchased higher caster UCA, namely that it's not that you need higher caster numbers, but that you need more adjustment. It's a very pedantic distinction I know, but it is a very important one to point out here because it ties into the above point regarding SAI and the way alignment changes under dynamic states such as compressed and uncompressed.
Simply increasing your Caster to a larger positive value alone does not assist significantly in better clearance for your tires as you pointed out in your video. By moving ONLY the UBJ, you're gaining some level of tire clearance, but also increasing the likelihood that under compression you're going to rub in turns as the loss of caster when compressed becomes exaggerated (think motorcycle front wheels vs. car wheels going over bumps for a very rough example). So if you and I are agreeing that using aftermarket UCA to increase your Caster via the UBJ position is less beneficial than most would think, why do I still encourage people to use them?
Clearly because then I can make hours installing them! (Joking obviously.)
The reason is because an aftermarket UCA with either built-in and/or adjustable Caster (ideally one with both Caster & Camber adjustment would be best) will offer your suspension far more adjustability before maxing out your Adjustment Cams on the Lower Control Arms. Now bear with me as this is a harder thing to visualize without a model or diagram, but due to the nature of a Dual Wishbone IFS, we actually adjust Camber/Caster in 2 axis (forward/backward, inward/outward) by modifying 1 endpoint of the Steering Axis (the LBJ). By installing an aftermarket UCA you are now changing the Steering Axis at the other end of the imaginary line, by taking advantage of these facts you can effectively move the two endpoints of the Steering Axis forward while maintaining relatively stock (or custom) Camber/Caster numbers for your needs. This becomes even easier when you install UCA that provide adjustments for Camber/Caster on-top of their built in design (i.e. the typical Billet UCA design and/or tube UCA that have threaded collars at the pivot points as well as swappable spacers).
I'm sure I've lost a couple of you and have the others squinting suspiciously and scratching their heads by now, so just bear with me a little longer here. Now, in an ideal situation we have both upper and lower control arms with adjustability, we can play with those adjustments on Peter's FJ to keep his factory Alignment and simply move the entire spindle/hub forward something like 0.5" (12.7mm for you fractionally challenged :P) which would alleviate the possibility of his tire rubbing along the 2nd Body Mount on turns under compression. Now, there might be some trimming towards the front bumper and fender liner that needs to be achieved depending on the tires, wheel offset, etc. (again, as I pointed out, this all a balancing act!); but he could also negate the vast majority of those concerns by just going with a high clearance winch bumper (gotta get them billable hours in mates! j/k).
Apologies for the long, boring soliloquy, but I figured it was important to point out the more critical nuance there for people and who knows, maybe you can find a way to demonstrate that in a diagram to really show the nuances of tuning a suspension? Anyways, keep up the great work! :)
Post Note-
I feel this is a bit more obvious and has to do more with tire width and wheel offset, but factory UCA from Toyota have that large rounded end due to their stamped metal design, aftermarket UCAs allow you to have wider tires/wheels with more negative offset before your sidewalls rub on the suspension components (the nub on the spindle is the next likely spot to rub depending on your tire/wheel configuration if you run a "lower profile" design of UCA.
Spectacular video. Answered so many questions I had regarding 'Taco lifting. Appreciate this information.
You deserve way more subs, keep doing your thing. I can’t think of any Toyota truck focused TH-camr who takes a true in-depth engineering approach to their videos. Also high five for a another PA dude, I swear I seen your FJ around.
Dude… THANK YOU! I have watched numerous videos on your channel and cannot begin to explain how informative your videos are. Incredible stuff!!!
Absolutely fantastic video. I was able to use this info to fit Falken AT3W 33s, stock TRD wheels and Ironman UCAs on my '21 4runner without a BMC with no rubbing at full lock and compression...besides moving the fender liner forward a few inches. Tha k you putting this together.
Hello Kai. Great information as always. I appreciate your clear explanations. Keep up the good work!
Thank you for researching and sharing your knowledge with the world. The world appreciates you!
Nice video. Biggest thing I learned was the tire pivoting around the steering axis (now it makes sense why negative offset increases rubbing). And hadn’t heard about “casual fallacy” since my philosophy class in college!
Love this info!! Quality vid as always.
I've been saying this for years in the Jeep IFS community because everyone thinks to fit 33" tyres on the WK/XK platform you need UCAs, 4" lift minimum (plus pinch weld mod), and -12 offset rims (stock are ~+44). Whereas I made measurements cycling the susp and figured I could fit 33x12.5R17 with o offset offset wheel (needed to clear upper BJ) on a 1" lift and pinch weld mod (and carefully trim the wheel arch plastics, but still retain the inner fenders). I ran that setup on and offroad for a year before upgrading to heavier duty susp for increased load and towing which netted an increase in susp lift but no change to tyre clearance like you say.
Scrub radius is a very important thing to consider!
You videos are simply excellent. I don’t even own a Toyota but my Bronco has IFS so I still learn a lot.
As a person with an understanding of suspension and alignment from the tech side, you did a great job explaining and giving visuals that the layman will be able to understand!
Absolute legend. Most youtubers in Australia just slap on 4 inch lift and long ass bumpstop so their tyres stick out of their car to fit 35". And because of these excessive lift their car are no longer road legal and needs to spend more to get an engineer to certify their car. Probably spend as much money modifying it than buying it.
Very good video…I had to do a little more bmc when I added the 1.5” spacers with the 305/70 R17
Absolutely amazing!! This is undoubtedly the best channel on TH-cam
Just found your channel, and I will be watching many more of your content!!!
Excellently explained!!!
Your vids are so well done, and the narration is stellar
Excellent information and presented in an easy to understand format. You have yourself a new subscriber.
GX470 owner here! This video is freaking amazing! Thank you so much for you research and knowledge!
This was best video to explain how offset, lift, caster is affected. Thank you so much!
Love your selection of the image for the chap !!!! It makes a lot of sense.
Share almost every video to our local Yota club, thank you as always for the insight, science and mathematical approach.
I am so glad that you make these videos! When I bought my Tacoma, i looked to popular internet forums for information, and quickly found myself questioning the recommendations as they didn't line up with my measurements and understanding of the suspension components. For my truck, I have tried to optimize performance by installing a Bilstein 6112/5160 because found that I needed the additional fluid capacity to mitigate high temps. I then installed the shocks with only 1' of lift so that I would ride in the middle of the zone, while adding both up and down travel. I maintained the factory UCAs and eliminated the sway bar. This keeps me very close to the original design intent. If i choose to run a bigger tire in the future, it will be a 255/85/16, which i believe is the better width for the stock TRD OR wheels. I can't tell you how many people that i have had to explain scrub radius to and how many people think that a lift solves clearance issues. I have recommended your channel to the masses on the popular forums. Great job and keep setting the record straight with engineering principals.
Got 32 inch tyre installed on my N70 2014 model. No need a body chop. Just push the castor a bit forward like what he said in the end and no need body chop. I don’t have to control the upper control arm. Thank you this is very helpful.❤️❤️
You just earned a new subscriber bro! SUPER educational and from these tips, l'd save ALOT of money not getting unnecessary upgrades!! Thanks SIR!
This video was great ! Thanks for the information, simple and straightforward! Loved it !🎉
Tinkerer's Adventure provides the best suspension tech on youtube for Toyota IFS. THANK YOU for sharing this info!
Im so excited i accidentally did this right. Gx470 skinny 33s bilstein 5100s and front sway delete. Thank You for all you do!
Great video like always, thanks again for spreading some much needed knowledge.
I was lucky to have someone help me adjust everything properly from day one. I had 33s with stock suspension and wheels 10 years ago. When I finally lifted it recently, was able to get close to 2.5 lift without a BMC.
What vehicle do you have? FJ Cruisers can generally fit 285/70R17 quite readily on the stock setup but the Prados make it a bit more difficult.
Great content, this was not a surprise for me whatsoever. Key here is knowing what exactly are you building your vehicle for. Most people will do it for the looks more than anything else, but if that’s your thing and you have the cash nothing wrong with that.
Appreciate your videos. You’re saving guys a ton of money and headaches.
After watching your previous videos I ended up with an Ironman lift. I got their upper control arms because I was effectively replacing all the suspension components anyway. I chose 255/80R17 tires to help with fit and the OEM wheels. I get the smallest rub in one spot only on the plastic so I don’t even worry about it.
Brilliant sir. Your videos are very educational. I actually figured out why my Broncos tires were rubbing on right side at full lock, after upper control arm replacement. Bingo. A bit too much positive caster, pulled the tires back a bit. Wouldnt have figured that out without these great videos.
The weirder thing to ponder is, I think I need to add more positive caster, to pull the tire forward and away from my sway bar. Guess I'll tinker myself.
Excellent video! One modification I regret on my 4Runner build is going with a -12 offset wheel, definitely should have went with a 0 offset.
Best explanation I have ever heard. Clear and to the point. Thanks. Uhh ya I subscribed.
Thanks for the technical insights. Great channel!
Excellent video! I wish more people would see the benefits of narrower tires and create enough demand to get more manufacturers to offer tall and narrow tires. It seems they're still much more common in most of the rest of the world, but too many Americans are all about form over function.
Very helpful vídeo Kai. Thanks for posting. Greetings from Las Vegas, NV.
I like the format if your content. Keep up the good job.
I own a jeep commander diesel in Greece and I learn stuff from a Toyota IFS pro in the US😂. Gotta love youtube. Keep up the great informative videos!!
Once again a really great video, with much needed information
You. Are. The. MAN. thank you so much for your videos and your reasoned approach!
Subscribed. I was looking for a channel like this. Awesome stuff!
Every video ive watched from you has no music. I love it!
Very good presentation of straight facts. Well done and informative.
Also, I'm running Fox 2.0 2" lift on JBA UCA with Falken Wildpeak 285 70 17's on Fuel Vapor D596 at -12mm offset. Setting Camber/Toe to factory and Caster to 4 degrees on my 2021 Tacoma TRD Sport. No cab mount rubbing and heat deformed the wheel well plastic on the front to clear minimal rubbing. At the bump stop, there isn't rubbing either. I think overall based on my math, and a competent alignment tech, I achieved a good mount.
Dude your channel is the best because you have statistics in it and keep it interesting
Dude you the best out there, keep it coming. Thank you for all of your hard work. I have a single cad toyota. I went with a 2 inch left. The typical 5100 bilstein, coils. AAl in rear
255,/75/16.. I geared with 488. The 4 banger 5 speed rides awesome. No ched here, just science..👍
I learned so much watching your video from a Honda "light truck" owner perspective! I have a Passport wanting 32 inch tires, and so much of what you cover is what JonDZ describes in his Passport/Ridgeline/Pilot tire video...but so much more detail! He now runs 33 inch tires on his rig (with lots of modification), but I'll stick to 30.5 inch tires and will leave the bigger tires to you Yota folk...for now!
Your videos are always incredibly educational and well done. Bravo sir!
Thanks dude!
Hands down the best video on tires and lifts out there.
Very good video indeed - myth busting as well. To summarize, in you opinion, what would be the optimum wheel offset for a 285/70/17 with under 2" lift on and FJ? 😮
I'm an old Landcruiser guy...Fairly new to toyota IFS...Kai has taught me alot as I build my 2020 TRD OR..Being a mechanical engineer he really knows his stuff..I'm doing a 3 inch lift with zero offset wheels and 33 inch tires..
Three people just agreed with your conclusion... first had an engineering degree, second was older and wiser and would think things through and the third was poor ....Nice video
Well done Kai.... well done. Im willing to bet, there are many that spent thousands, and gained nothing over my cheap, working lift, with proper offset. (285/70/17s)
Such a good video, it answered a bunch of questions I had but then created all new ones 😅. I'm just trying to fit 285s 70 17s on my GX460. I used to think just a lift now I gotta go look up lower control arms too smh
The explanation everyone needs!!! Thank you!!
Great one Kai. OFFSET IS KEY
So many misunderstandings within this scope
I run a 315/70/17 with a +25 - TE37 on my Tundra. 5100 middle setting. Alignment is within spec.
No BMC. Stock UCA - Parking lot princess.
Your information is so useful for the off-road community in general. I don’t even own a Toyota lol. Great content.
Great video, awesome channel. Keep ‘em coming.
Excellent video as always Kai! It's from the knowledge gained from your UCA and IFS videos that I successfully fitted 255/85R17s to my Hilux. They're taller than some nominal 35" tires, but their being 2.5" narrower allowed me to keep more positive offset to minimize scrub radius. A BMC and some other cutting were still needed, but that's just to be expected with tires whose radius is >2" over stock.
You are simply a wealth of information. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with all of us!
Thanks! Did you get the Baja Boss AT? I’m considering getting a set as well
@@TinkerersAdventure Yup! They're the only tires in that size IIRC, although Kenda and Interco offer pizza cutters in very similar sizes as well.
Not sure if you've seen his video, but Hayden over at FJX2000 Productions put Baja Boss ATs on his FJ
@@TinkerersAdventure Just got a bone stock 2008 GX 470. Do you think that I could go from factory wheel (+25 offset) to a wheel with 0mm offset and upgrading tires from 265/65r17 to 265/70r17 without rubbing?
I have a 2’ dobinson lift on my 5th gen 4R. Nice to know I can still keep the stock wheels when I move to 285’s.
Awesome and on point again. Love your work
Excellent analysis, as usual.
Thanks!
Best video I've seen on ifs period, Toyota or otherwise, thank you.
Looking at your example early in the video you had a TRD wheel which has a positive 4 offset, non TRD is 14 or so I think. So with the x/2, a TRD wheel over stock that is around 10mm, then a 285 tire vs 265 is another 10mm in width that acts like offset so 20mm total or 10mm from clearance. Stock tires are 31.5 to 32 depending on brand, so going 33 is 1inch more or about 13mm less clearance, so we are up to about 23mm or round up to a full inch with about .5inch to spare if the mud flap is removed...based on the FJ example at the end since they had the stock wheels and not trd
Hey Kai! Love your videos, they are the most technically informative videos I have seen. I am considering purchasing a 100 series Land Cruiser and would like to fit large tires but am not sure how to accomplish this. Do you have any experience with 100 series? Given they have a different suspension set up than most other ifs Toyotas, do you think you could make or recommend a video explaining how they work, and if/how they can be improved for better clearance off road?
I really appreciate your facts and demonstrations.
Great information from your videos. What is your ideal lift for a 5th generation 4runner. What brand suspension kit do you like most. 33” tires with a 2” or 2.5” lift up fron. Thank you for producing these great videos
I frequent those places you're talking about where everyone says it's hard to fit 33's to an FJ, but everyone that had trouble had upgraded suspension.
I did the measurements myself and found no reason they shouldn't fit. Factory suspension, slipped right in. No need to adjust at all.
I do get the occasional instant of scrub at full compression on the track but I've never lost any rubber and there's no marks from it.
If I'd gone with the offsets that were recommended on the forums, I'd have bought rims that would fit their suspension and would have scrubbed on mine.
I have a set of his shift nobs in my 5th gen. I definitely recommend them. They are extremely high quality.
I very much needed this. Thank you
Immensely helpful. You are the best out there. Thank you very much!
Best Toyota guy on TH-cam.
Very well explained luv your work
Moral of the story : Be like Peter, don't be a Chad 😎
Awesome vid again my friend. I was referencing your channel in both of thr professional off-road courses I taught last week.
HI from Australia. 🇦🇺
As you were talking about IRS front suspension. There is one type of mod lift you forgot to mention.
That's a upper ball Joint spacer. Thus lowering the upper ball Joint allowing several inches of suspension again out of the front suspension..