As a layman with an interest in engineering, thank you for being an engineer willing to communicate with us laymen. Specifically, I appreciate your willingness to address common misconceptions in a way that is undeniable when the complete set of variables are observed, not just individual parts being talked about as if they exist in a vacuum. Your clear and concise explanations allow you to touch on things that other experts might understand but not be able to articulate to others who are learning. On top of all this you have superb video quality and a likeable personality. Excellent work, my friend.
only reason they use ifs in manufacturing,,is there cheaper, lighter,than a diff, solid axle..keeps the epa figures down..cost,,plus, they break, so they sell more parts.. i have an 82 bronco,,fitted a solid axle..drive 200% better, with more travel off road.. theres a vid of an fj droped off a 1 ft, or less shelf,,rolled it..
Gday. Form Australia.. very informative videos for IFS.. LOVE IT..❤. With the limited ball joint knuckles on the Mitsubishi triton MQ-MR 2015-2023 I would love to see the best set up with lift and UCAS for this vehicle .. so many misconceptions with this car it needs to be debunked once and for all by someone with engineering background.. Future video series? Currently about to run ironman pro forge UCAS with 2" Outback armour struts, but still unsure to go diff drop.
I second this, the technical breakdown and testing of toyota ifs is unique and helps the myself and the community truly understand what's going on with it!
As an Off Road instructor that just watched 4 of your videos , I love all of this ! I will definitely tell students about your channel ! Keep up the great work !
I knew it!!! In one of the 4Runner forums on some thread I read a couple years ago, a guy had some issues with his steering, went to a toyota dealer and took one of their top technicians for a ride in his 4runner, they talked about his issue and got on the topic of the diff drop, the tech explained at great length why the diff drop can actually cause a series of issues all related to each other, going back to the diff drop. I have been looking for that thread for a long time now but still can't find it. But since reading it, I made up my mind not to get a diff drop. This video confirms my decision. Fantastic video as always man!
Thanks! Yeah many issues on vehicles are interconnected and not simple or linear. Most people are looking for short yes or no answers, but those are not usually correct or good.
I think this is the only channel on off-roading that actually explains stuff and investigates from a scientific perspective. Some of the best explanations anywhere...
As a mechanical engineer and a rock crawler, I can't tell you how much I appreciate these videos. I used to have a Jeep Wrangler, but recently bought a 5th gen 4Runner. While trying to decide on lift and tire size and all the variables, it is overwhelming the amount of conflicting, or outright false information there is out there. Everyone has their own opinion that they believe is correct. This is because people believe everything they hear and don't use their brains, or like you said, generalize it and apply it to all situations. The only way to know for sure is to actually understand the system. Your videos educate people that don't posses the mechanical inclination that you and I have, as well as help even seasoned engineers apply these principles to the Toyota platform. Thanks and keep them coming.
You are 100% right on the keep your lift under 2 inches. I see so many people force their ifs into a 4 inch lift. With stock arms this is horrible. There is nothing positive about this style lift. It will never align, extreme tire shoulder wear, rides like crap, you loose all droop and articulation, and I guarantee that your upper ball joint will break at some point. The ideal ride hight is where your suspension is neutral. If your arms can move 10 inches, ideally you would have your ride hight where your suspension travel is 5 inches up and 5 inches down.
Just removed the diff drop from my 150 Prado as I only raised the suspension 40mm over factory. Cheers for all of the incredibly informative content you continue to put out for us
Just found your channel yesterday as I was looking for information while working on my FJs suspension (replacing factory components with new OEM stuff for now). I love how detailed your videos are and how they are backed up with the math and physics to prove it! I've learned a lot as to what each component does and what to look for as I do my maintenance! Keep up the great work!
Great video! We also tell customers a diff drop is not needed. 1" more travel beyond an extended travel shock will run into other issues in addition to CV angles. Ball joint or uniball on UCA will usually be maxed out.
Your videos are the best source for Toyota 4x4 technical info on the internet by far. I'd love to see a video analyzing the sliding sway bar disconnects for non KDSS 120s. They seem like an interesting compromising for keeping a sway bar.
So I've spent some time thinking about the 10" travel set up you mentioned. It may be possible to use Bilstein 5100s with a 3/8" top spacer. The total length would come out just short of 10". I think you should be able to get full up travel and bumpstop function based on this video from Westcott Designs (th-cam.com/video/lRzgZQK37_Y/w-d-xo.html) showing their 1/2" top hat spacer on a fox trd pro strut with a TCL of 17.44" and the 5100s have a total compressed length is 17.58". The 0.14" difference would be accounted for by the slight shorter top hat spacer. Also there are other options for the N80 diff drop kit that are cheaper and some look to be sturdier. The CalOffroad kit has an extra mount point and is about 370 usd vs 460. There is also a set on Alibaba for about 250. Can't wait to hear more about what you're piecing together. Note: In the westcott video, they don't show the same level of bump stop compression vs your IFS video.
Love your videos! Last year I bought a 13' 4Runner Trail w/ KDSS I am slowly building into a capable overlander for 4x4 camping and technical off-road trails. As someone who has yet to throw thousands of dollars at a lift I am so grateful to have found your channel to clear up myths and internet rumors about 4Runner/Toyota lifts. I would have HATED to be $3,000-$5,000 into a build only to find i over spent on something that made me lose articulation and off-road performance. You have used science and thoroughly explained points to help people build the most efficient and cost effective off-road machines. I'm always excited to see new videos get released by you. Thank so much from Sacramento, CA!
I think you're correct about gaining the extra inch of droop, especially on 1st gen Tacoma/3rd gen 4 Runner. The CVs on my 1st gen Tacoma bind nearly an inch before the coilover is fully extended.
I’ve recently rewatched this whole series. It seems to me, with the right UCA, 1/2” top strut spacer, extended travel shock and the diff drop arms, you could maximize the stock length arm travel. I’d love to see you test that combo.
One issue with the arm drop from Kaon is that it's only for the hilux/fortuner platform and not the prado/FJ/4runner platform. While they both use the same outer components, the diffs and chassis are different.
Well this sold me. I bought a 3rd gen 4runner a month ago that has a 2" spacer lift (I will be switching that over to coil lift at some point) and a diff drop. The factory skids were off when I bought it and I was never give the skid spacers that I presume came with the drop kit used. I've been wanting to get the factory skids back on and was thinking of finding some spacers. Now I'm just going to delete the diff drop and get a tiny bit of clearance back.
You can just flatten the ribs on the inside of the factory skid plate with a BFH and you don't lose any ground clearance with the 1" diff drop on a 3rd Gen 4Runner. That's what most people did back in the day.
That KAON diff drop ($695 AUD) does more than drop the diff. The N70, N80 Hilux and Fortuner's have an issue whereby the diff assembly is not even from side to side. The right hand (drivers' side in Australia) is 10mm higher than the left side. It was very noticeable on my 2018 Hilux (45mm lift). Suspension was rechecked by the installer and also my mechanic and it was adjusted correctly. This particular diff drop fixes this issue so not only is the diff lower but both sides are even. This only affects the models mentioned above, not the FJ cruisers or Prado's.
The problem you guys in the USA have is that you guys still use "spacer" style diff drops. Which rotates the diff slightly forward and due to the rear mount being fixed still, gives you less than 0.5" of actual CV shaft reprieve. Here in Australia, we replace the whole set of diff mount arms that lower the diff 32mm - over an inch evenly. Not only that but there are strength benefits to be had as with the spacer drops, you're still using the factory arms which are prone to bending in low range high load situations. The replacement arm diff drops we use here in Oz, the RHF mount I'd also braced between both the front and rear crossmembers, which significantly increases strength and alleviates the mount bending issues the factory mounts are prone to. Our mounts reduce proper CV angle, thus providing additional strength and reliability, plus with longer coilovers, a good inch of downtravel is achievable.
Great video, thanks for sharing. Now I don't have to install that diff spacer thats been kickin round my tool box last 5 years 🤣 PS- Jason explains sent me 💕👍
Bigger tires also change the Torque on the wheels and load on bearings. I've taking a stock 3rd gen 4runner with stock tires places guys with 4 inch lifts go. You are 100% correct. Driver skill is far more important. I like the smaller tires and More torque, crawling speed.
Awesome ! Indonesia here played around with hilux N80, fortuner, and a prado 150, learned a lot from all your videos Kai, Thanks and have a great toyotas, cheers
My friend had a lifted 2nd gen 4runner. He didn't have diff drop and his cv axle alignment was horrible and bound often. It became un-driveable. I drive an old silverado 2500 that uses torsion bars and it is also one of those vehicles that you need to have a diff drop as things get messed up really fast if not. Like you said - it is vehicle and model dependant.
I've been on the fence for months about getting a diff drop and finally found your video! Now im not ordering a diff drop and going to mesure my front suspension angles haha. Thank you so much for being so in depth and informative! You sir have gained a follower and respect!
Wow! I wish I had known this a couple of years ago. I took my 07 FJC MT to the shop to replace the cv axles, and they recommended a diff drop. I had it done. I since then have converted my FJ into an overlander and have several trails under my belt. There are no issues yet. With my FJ having a 3" suspension lift, maybe I'll have that diff drop reversed in the future. I don't like the possible 1" of lost ground clearance. Thanks Kai!!
Awesome as always. Now take a look at the 100 series and the torsion bar. If you need a rig to video, you can use mine! (I did do the diff drop on my LX470)
Fantastic video. I laughed when you said be careful with spacers. I trashed several steering arms before realising it was the extra drop spacers created.
Thank you sir! I appreciate your FACT (math) based approach to the answers you provide. Instead of just being a mindless sheep and going with the guy's opinion standing next to you. I appreciate your time and effort in all your videos!
Note ! the axle snap after engine rev down , so it seems it is the back torque input from larger tires that snap the CV? Under compression , where you have the highest torque/traction, the stock diff has a lower axle angel , where the diff drop actually has a higher angel . In full expansion the drop diff wins, but not much torque in a wheel off the ground! And how-about , when you are turning the wheels full stop L or R and still have full load on the axle?
Thanks for putting the message out! I been singled out in the past as the crazy dude yelling at the clouds but you’re putting out the evidence, ground clearance is everything when riding on IFS. Thanks for the videos dude, hopefully business takes off so I can become a patreon and buy some of those sweet knobs. Again, thank you Kai!
My understanding is that an A-Trac equipped vehicle with it activated can prevent the few similar cv snapping scenarios as shown in your video. Preventing excess wheel spin and sudden traction.
I would never go for a diff drop and your advice is spot on, rather if I had money, I would invest in portal axles. As usual, precise to the point advice.
@@modarkthemauler true you get clearance on the axles but the center still stays in the same spot. Now that you mention portals, thats the real lift that basically fixes all the issues. Check out Megacruiser from Toyota, perfect execution of a off road capable vehicle.
Excellent video, as always! I have been wondering about this for the longest time (about 20 years)but I could never get a definitive answer. Now on my 3rd Toyota truck lifted I’m glad never did. I always install a suspension lift that’s no more than 2 inches with a set of 33’s. I’m my opinion is the perfect set up for highway and off road driving. Note: I am interested on the shift knob for my 2016 Tacoma manual transmission. Are you able to ship to Canada yet?
Thanks! Great way to build an IFS. My FJ is also 2" lift, despite it looks bigger with wider control arms and tall fenders. International shipping will turned on soon! You can sign up my email list and I will notify you when it is ready.
Another fantastic video. You should make a video about how to get as much droop as possible! Using that arm style diff drop, aftermarket UCA’s, extended + spacer coilovers, and high articulation cv axles. What is the theoretical limit to the stock suspension design using aftermarket parts without going for long travel IFS? Or at least do a video about maximizing droop, even if you don’t take it all the way. Thanks again for the fantastic content! Reconsidering my diff drop now 😂
Me too. I have a 2011 Xterra AT Pro-4X, but I used to have a 2006 FJ Cruiser MT. I have to say, I like my Xterra much better. The resale value isn't as good. That's the one big negative. However, the frame is so much stronger, and you don't have to do a body mount chop to fit larger tires. Unfortunately, because Nissan didn't sell many 2nd Gen Xterras, aftermarket support is limited, and expensive.
Thank you for what you do, with your technical explanations it would be great for you to look into the benefits of bigger tires besides ground clearance and more sidewall for off-road. Maybe even look into what regearing after adding bigger tires does
I did a fab tech 6” lift. Not possible without a did drop. Preloead ‘lifts’ a couple inches probably do not matter. Not intelligent off reading where you’re spinning tires will snap it up no matter what. If your tires are spinning, get a locker, use traction aids, pick a better line, get better tires, or don’t do it. Emotional people always have problems in all aspects of life.
Every video you make is superb! I learn something from you EVERY TIME! Especially because you often use Ironman 4x4 products to compare and that’s what I’m running on my 2019. Keep up the great videos!
You're correct. But if I could pull 10" travel like I hoped for, it sounds like a bargain to me. A 11.5" travel +2 LT costs almost $6K USD all set and done.
I have an n70 hilux here in Australia. With 2inch lift arb Bp51 suspension, I was getting cv bind up pretty badly, UCA'S superior engineering alloy billet , LCA'S replaced to super pro offset , wheels are +15 fuel covert bead locks ,tyres 285/70 ×17 , I used the Kaon diff drop and removed the Cv bind completely, great content!
Artic Trucks themselves do not do a diff drop when they build the AT35 D-Max (OK, not a Toyota), but this does show that it is probably not always necessary. Will the CV joints wear out quicker, possibly, but then again the larger tyres of the AT35 also cause increased wear for brakes, wheel bearings, diffs, etc... Essentially you are getting increased off roading ability and playing with durability. It is a price that sometimes has to be payed.
Something I didn't see mentioned, but I see a lot of when people do Diff Drops on Toyota Trucks & SUVs specifically, is that you need to bend/adjust the breather tube bracket if you do a front diff drop. The front diff drop will pull the breather hoses against the steering rack lines/clamps, specifically the ADD Actuator breather, over time it will cut into the lines and allow moisture to drain into the ADD itself and cause corrosion. Due to where the breather hole is for the ADD Actuator, the moisture will drain along the side of the casing and pool along the bottom just under the finger switches that are used by the actuator for timing/position; once you start getting corrosion along those switches/tracks you'll start seeing intermittent and/or full failure of the ADD Actuator. From my experience, that's been the most common failure of the ADD Actuators in Part-Time 4WD systems by Toyota is moisture induced corrosion confusing the position signals (something you can easily verify by either using a known good ADD to plug into the harness and/or manually jumping pins to tell the 4WD ECU which position it's in). It was something we found out on the T4R.org forums and verified myself on multiple vehicles over the last year or two that have come in for 4WD issues; I've also been able to "repair" multiple ADD Actuators simply by cleaning the contacts and replacing the grease if it's contaminated (though, I should point out; this was specifically for ones that were outputting incorrect position signals; not ones where the corrosion ate the motor up). So just passing the knowledge along to you guys, it's easy to see if you look at the steering rack lines near the intermediate shaft with a light and use either a prybar or your hand if you can reach back there and just push the steel bracket away a half an inch. May save you a headache down the line... or just you know... not run a Diff Drop if you don't need it like our friend here points out?
Man, you have some great videos and explain things to us normal folk very well and easy to understand. Thank you for your time and effort making these videos!
My diff drop kit from Revtek on my 2020 Tacoma had created stress on my diff mount, and the nut ripped through my frame. So when I engage 4x4 it would lift the front diff under load (turning usually) and allowed the front driveshaft to contact the transmission housing when rotating and the U joint cut chunks of aluminum from the transmission housing.
What are you thoughts on KDSS spacers? I’m about to purchase a Bilstien kit 2” lift. Not buying diff drop kit or adding UCA. I own a 2016 Lexus GX 460 and adding 285/70/17 K03’s. Thank you so much. Keep up the great work. Also adding your shifter to my list.
I did the diff drop because my mechanic recommended it since I have a 3.5 lift kit on my taco. He said it would cause too much wear and tear on the CV axles. I was also breaking the boots but I didn't know there were high angle boots available.
I'll have to check my truck, pretty sure i've got plenty clearance between diff and skid plate on the 3rd gen 4runner, no need for spacer between skid and frame either
I took the brackets off the front diff and redesigned them so the diff drops . Now I made my own skid plates with wings tat stick out in to the bottom a-arms. This way with my front cv protector’s the cv joints are only unprotected from the back side . I think I dropped my diff around 3/4 of an inch. Now my skid plates the bottom flat one is 1/4 inch plate now the front is 3/16. I recently made a front bumper to replace the one behind the plastic so it’s for a winch ! Yeah fits behind the original plastic bumper cut one hole under the front plate . It’s all 1/4 plate boxed on the bolt on ends then flat under the winch with 4 gussets on the ends timing the flat in to the boxed ends . Then a peace of channel across the bottom with two threaded holes for the middle bumper cover bolts ! Great advise on all the lift products and your facts then most for your knowledge!
Another excellent discussion. Glad you addressed the "real" diff drop, i.e., Phatt (and similar) from Australia. I came to a similar conclusion as you did that the 1" spacers really don't accomplish much.
Yes, I just saw a 35” tires on an FJ Cruiser 07 with a suspension upgrade and lift kit on a 2 wheel drive.These where Nitro tires & heavy bumper. I guess they went off roading.
I love these videos. I just installed a 3inch lift kit on my 2021 4runner and I didn't do the diff drop. I'm running BFGOODRICH stock size 265's for now, when those are worn-out I'll change the wheels and tires going for 33's. Pretty happy with the results.
11:26 - I was yelling this in my head the entire video. The mental gymnastics are real. People who do a lift and then drop the diff back down because they dont do rock crawling and therefore dont need the clearance... why dont you just not do a lift?? Like you said, the suspension articulation is better at stock height. CV angles are perfect, driveshaft angles are perfect, CG is optimal... Stock tires have better torque to the ground, better effective gear ratio, better steering, etc, etc. People ruin perfectly good 4x4's and dont even know it. Stuff is not supposed to break all the time. That happens because you messed everything up with your lift. I had this realization with sports cars a long time ago, but its true with 4x4's too: almost every departure from stock configuration makes the vehicle worse.
I own an Xterra Pro-4X. On the foruns, everyone is against diff drops. They just Tiran Swap for more suspension travel and track width. They say Nissan CV joints are strong enough to handle the increased angkes. I'm still researching it. Diff drop lifts are obviously more expensive. However, your front drive shaft is much stronger than your front axles abd CV joints. If you jack up your front IFS angles, I susoect the axles will break first when off-roading. I doubt the front drive shaft will break, if you do the diff drop correctly.
Thanks for making this video - it helps clear up a lot of internet mythology. I love that you added the note on Landcruiser 100*, just before I was about to install the diff drop. Would you ever do a video on good practices when working on vehicles? I'm looking at shots of your shop and can see it's extremely meticulous. A video on practical advice to at-home mechanics or even shop owners might be super helpful. Thanks again.
When just started off roading I had a diff drop installed with my small lift, because I had read that's what you're supposed to do. But I was annoyed at how much it lowered the skid plate. So I finally removed the skid plate and noticed the front diff mounts just barely moved, but the plates had to move a lot to clear them. So I removed the diff drop and have been happy since. There was also an occasional "thunk" when I came to a stop that has since disappeared after removing the drop. Don't know what it was though.
This is your most controversial take on suspension/lifts imo. I know my 02 Taco TRD loved to eat the bearings in the diff that held the inner cv stub once lifted. A diff drop seemed to help. The argument that a higher angle on the cv's doesn't affect wear much is kinda sus, because all ifs systems break more axles at droop and with the steering locked (aka highest possible outer cv angle); it's clearly weaker with more angle and you failed to take into account steering as part of your angle calculations. Let's be honest; most ifs lifted vehicles I see barely have any droop left in the suspension and it's my own personal opinion that people should go as large of a tire as the wheel well fits with as little lift as possible. Most lifted ifs vehicles that I see would bind the tires in the wheel well if the suspension could actually still cycle to full compression. How many people actually remove the springs and guarantee tire clearance throughout the suspension's range of motion? I know I'd take lower lift, lower cv angle, less ground clearance, more useable droop, and full suspension range of motion with as large of tire as possible (that doesn't bind/rub) because it's more useful/less maintenance in just about every situation for my uses.
Great video. Same thoughts work for older Toyota designs. Like my 1st gen sequoia. Diff drops are wildly regarded in this community as useless for a lot of the same reasons talked about in this video!
So, this may be hard to do but I was wondering if you might consider a video about installing lifts on high mileage vehicles. A lot of folks over the last several years especially have posted videos or made comments in forums about putting lifts (spacer or springs) on high, sometimes very high, mileage vehicles that they bought because they wanted to get something cheap. Then they complain about vibrations, rough ride and pre-mature drive line wear. I have two ideas about this. One is that the original suspension components are worn and when they change to new after market components and then subject the old gear to hard use they have issues. What they should do is overhaul the old components before adding anything new. The second idea is that after 125,000 to 200,000 miles (yes, some folks are buying vehicles with 200,000 miles on them and then modifying them as if nothing will happen) the factory parts, especially the CV axles have worn in within the factory designed ranges of articulation. When someone throws a lift on and sets a new static droop position the old and worn CV joints being asked to turn in a constant static position that they only experienced briefly before modifications. I suspect this is one of the causes of the vibration so commonly complained about after people lift high mileage vehicles. This one seems more common in full time 4WD or AWD vehicles, of course. In fact, they report when their complaints are expressed to the manufacturer they are told to try replacing the CV axles.
Just found your channel and watched a bunch of your videos. Although I don't drive a Toyota (2004 Suburban 2500), I found your scientific/engineering aproach very interesting and useful.
Can you make video on old model toyota IFS like 3rd gen 4runner. That would be very interesting, and ai think a lot of people will be happy to see it too
Didn’t expect you to get one out so quick after I requested this topic. Much appreciated man! Really helps affirm how I was feeling about it and back it up with some actual numbers.
Thanks. This does not cover drop bracket lift like the Rough country 6” lift, which uses a taller spindle. BUT, i will present something like that but maybe even better, stay tuned :)
@@TinkerersAdventure oh sorry, I must’ve seen the title and misread. But yes, I think a video on drop bracket lifts would be very helpful to many people in truck modding community!
@@Absolute_Unit135 It's funny, the Toyota community thinks drop bracket lifts are trash, however, when I was younger and into full-size pickups, for the guys that ran IFS on those, the drop bracket kits were considered the quality kits and the way to go. Personally, I think drop bracket kits have their place, it just depends what you're trying to do with the vehicle and what your main performance goals are. I like the fact that the drop bracket kits at least make an attempt to maintain the factory geometry.
I have two 4Runners. Both are gen 5th. One is lifted with Bilstein 6112 + JBA + kit to drop the differential (SR5, 4x4) and the other one will be with Bilstein 5100 only (Limited, AWD) and 3" lifted. We will see the difference soon...
(i can tell you from racing off-road - not even counting the durability) the most benefit of any axle is ground level or slightly below (usually slightly below equals negative suspension lift). Example - just look at an ultra4 suspension and look how flat the CV and arm angles are. the reason is the faster the axle spins the more it tries to level out. this means if you have your axle point down (high in the middle low at the wheel) when you hit the gas, the forces on the tire are up (the tire is trying to move away from the ground) equaling less grip. These forces a magnify the harder you hit the gas. yes, you can run a hard spring to stop this but will worsen the ability to move through uneven terrain. slightly below (usually the most benefits for rear independent suspension) will make the truck lower but it makes the axle act more like anti-squat - force the tire down and lift the truck when the axle flatten out. this usually gives you the most tire grip and you can run a bit softer spring which give the suspension ability to move more freely. also the more angle you have the less efficiency/power you have. the drivetrain is fighting to say straight which takes energy. if you want more lift (don't do it to your street truck) run bigger tires and cut the body to make them fit.
As a layman with an interest in engineering, thank you for being an engineer willing to communicate with us laymen. Specifically, I appreciate your willingness to address common misconceptions in a way that is undeniable when the complete set of variables are observed, not just individual parts being talked about as if they exist in a vacuum. Your clear and concise explanations allow you to touch on things that other experts might understand but not be able to articulate to others who are learning. On top of all this you have superb video quality and a likeable personality. Excellent work, my friend.
I appreciate the kind words!
do not,,ever,,buy a 4x4 if you intend,,to 4x4,,with ifs,,there garbage..
only reason they use ifs in manufacturing,,is there cheaper, lighter,than a diff, solid axle..keeps the epa figures down..cost,,plus, they break, so they sell more parts.. i have an 82 bronco,,fitted a solid axle..drive 200% better, with more travel off road.. theres a vid of an fj droped off a 1 ft, or less shelf,,rolled it..
@@harrywalker968 IFS also generally gives you a better on road ride, on average. I’m with you on liking solid axles better though
Gday. Form Australia.. very informative videos for IFS.. LOVE IT..❤. With the limited ball joint knuckles on the Mitsubishi triton MQ-MR 2015-2023 I would love to see the best set up with lift and UCAS for this vehicle .. so many misconceptions with this car it needs to be debunked once and for all by someone with engineering background.. Future video series?
Currently about to run ironman pro forge UCAS with 2" Outback armour struts, but still unsure to go diff drop.
Every video you make is gold.
I second this, the technical breakdown and testing of toyota ifs is unique and helps the myself and the community truly understand what's going on with it!
This is such a great channel for Toyota 4x4 insight.
Seriously, so insightful
Yeah, there's no other channel like this.
Great work man, thanks.
agreed. no bullshit, just actual hands on example and engineering.
Get this man a tv show. Most informative off-road content on TH-cam
No way. TV shows get watered down, dumbed down, and fluffed up with marketing agendas. This space is where it's at.
@@TrevorDyck Truth, this is the best tech channel on TH-cam bar none.
@@TrevorDyck If he keeps truthing and facting, TH-cam will demonetize, or boot his entire channel.
No don't, the networks will screw him over. Get this man some sponsorships!
NO network television boomer.
As an Off Road instructor that just watched 4 of your videos , I love all of this ! I will definitely tell students about your channel ! Keep up the great work !
Off road instructor 😂
This man has the most logical and well thought out insights of when it comes to using your vehicle.
Basically he doesnt deal in BS ( or eloquently put Bro science).
I knew it!!! In one of the 4Runner forums on some thread I read a couple years ago, a guy had some issues with his steering, went to a toyota dealer and took one of their top technicians for a ride in his 4runner, they talked about his issue and got on the topic of the diff drop, the tech explained at great length why the diff drop can actually cause a series of issues all related to each other, going back to the diff drop.
I have been looking for that thread for a long time now but still can't find it. But since reading it, I made up my mind not to get a diff drop. This video confirms my decision. Fantastic video as always man!
Thanks! Yeah many issues on vehicles are interconnected and not simple or linear. Most people are looking for short yes or no answers, but those are not usually correct or good.
Straight to the point. No long introduction or annoying music.
Very informative.
Subscribed.
I think this is the only channel on off-roading that actually explains stuff and investigates from a scientific perspective. Some of the best explanations anywhere...
As a mechanical engineer and a rock crawler, I can't tell you how much I appreciate these videos. I used to have a Jeep Wrangler, but recently bought a 5th gen 4Runner. While trying to decide on lift and tire size and all the variables, it is overwhelming the amount of conflicting, or outright false information there is out there. Everyone has their own opinion that they believe is correct. This is because people believe everything they hear and don't use their brains, or like you said, generalize it and apply it to all situations. The only way to know for sure is to actually understand the system. Your videos educate people that don't posses the mechanical inclination that you and I have, as well as help even seasoned engineers apply these principles to the Toyota platform. Thanks and keep them coming.
I mean you are doing the exact same thing.
You are 100% right on the keep your lift under 2 inches. I see so many people force their ifs into a 4 inch lift. With stock arms this is horrible. There is nothing positive about this style lift. It will never align, extreme tire shoulder wear, rides like crap, you loose all droop and articulation, and I guarantee that your upper ball joint will break at some point. The ideal ride hight is where your suspension is neutral. If your arms can move 10 inches, ideally you would have your ride hight where your suspension travel is 5 inches up and 5 inches down.
Just removed the diff drop from my 150 Prado as I only raised the suspension 40mm over factory. Cheers for all of the incredibly informative content you continue to put out for us
Just found your channel yesterday as I was looking for information while working on my FJs suspension (replacing factory components with new OEM stuff for now). I love how detailed your videos are and how they are backed up with the math and physics to prove it! I've learned a lot as to what each component does and what to look for as I do my maintenance! Keep up the great work!
Great video! We also tell customers a diff drop is not needed. 1" more travel beyond an extended travel shock will run into other issues in addition to CV angles. Ball joint or uniball on UCA will usually be maxed out.
I could watch you, and AMD at The Car Care Nut all day. Very thorough!!
Your videos are the best source for Toyota 4x4 technical info on the internet by far. I'd love to see a video analyzing the sliding sway bar disconnects for non KDSS 120s. They seem like an interesting compromising for keeping a sway bar.
So I've spent some time thinking about the 10" travel set up you mentioned. It may be possible to use Bilstein 5100s with a 3/8" top spacer. The total length would come out just short of 10". I think you should be able to get full up travel and bumpstop function based on this video from Westcott Designs (th-cam.com/video/lRzgZQK37_Y/w-d-xo.html) showing their 1/2" top hat spacer on a fox trd pro strut with a TCL of 17.44" and the 5100s have a total compressed length is 17.58". The 0.14" difference would be accounted for by the slight shorter top hat spacer. Also there are other options for the N80 diff drop kit that are cheaper and some look to be sturdier. The CalOffroad kit has an extra mount point and is about 370 usd vs 460. There is also a set on Alibaba for about 250. Can't wait to hear more about what you're piecing together. Note: In the westcott video, they don't show the same level of bump stop compression vs your IFS video.
Love your videos! Last year I bought a 13' 4Runner Trail w/ KDSS I am slowly building into a capable overlander for 4x4 camping and technical off-road trails. As someone who has yet to throw thousands of dollars at a lift I am so grateful to have found your channel to clear up myths and internet rumors about 4Runner/Toyota lifts. I would have HATED to be $3,000-$5,000 into a build only to find i over spent on something that made me lose articulation and off-road performance. You have used science and thoroughly explained points to help people build the most efficient and cost effective off-road machines. I'm always excited to see new videos get released by you. Thank so much from Sacramento, CA!
I think you're correct about gaining the extra inch of droop, especially on 1st gen Tacoma/3rd gen 4 Runner. The CVs on my 1st gen Tacoma bind nearly an inch before the coilover is fully extended.
I’ve recently rewatched this whole series. It seems to me, with the right UCA, 1/2” top strut spacer, extended travel shock and the diff drop arms, you could maximize the stock length arm travel. I’d love to see you test that combo.
One issue with the arm drop from Kaon is that it's only for the hilux/fortuner platform and not the prado/FJ/4runner platform. While they both use the same outer components, the diffs and chassis are different.
Well this sold me. I bought a 3rd gen 4runner a month ago that has a 2" spacer lift (I will be switching that over to coil lift at some point) and a diff drop. The factory skids were off when I bought it and I was never give the skid spacers that I presume came with the drop kit used. I've been wanting to get the factory skids back on and was thinking of finding some spacers. Now I'm just going to delete the diff drop and get a tiny bit of clearance back.
You can just flatten the ribs on the inside of the factory skid plate with a BFH and you don't lose any ground clearance with the 1" diff drop on a 3rd Gen 4Runner. That's what most people did back in the day.
Have a 3 inch suspension lift on an 08 Duramax. It includes a 2 inch diff drop to keep the front CV angles the same as OEM.
That KAON diff drop ($695 AUD) does more than drop the diff. The N70, N80 Hilux and Fortuner's have an issue whereby the diff assembly is not even from side to side. The right hand (drivers' side in Australia) is 10mm higher than the left side. It was very noticeable on my 2018 Hilux (45mm lift). Suspension was rechecked by the installer and also my mechanic and it was adjusted correctly.
This particular diff drop fixes this issue so not only is the diff lower but both sides are even. This only affects the models mentioned above, not the FJ cruisers or Prado's.
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing that info
Great video. But in my opinion, the best solution is even more simple: a solid front axel!😄
The problem you guys in the USA have is that you guys still use "spacer" style diff drops. Which rotates the diff slightly forward and due to the rear mount being fixed still, gives you less than 0.5" of actual CV shaft reprieve.
Here in Australia, we replace the whole set of diff mount arms that lower the diff 32mm - over an inch evenly.
Not only that but there are strength benefits to be had as with the spacer drops, you're still using the factory arms which are prone to bending in low range high load situations.
The replacement arm diff drops we use here in Oz, the RHF mount I'd also braced between both the front and rear crossmembers, which significantly increases strength and alleviates the mount bending issues the factory mounts are prone to.
Our mounts reduce proper CV angle, thus providing additional strength and reliability, plus with longer coilovers, a good inch of downtravel is achievable.
What’s the name of the website that sells them?
Who sells the arm style diff drops?
@@agentchowdown4938 th-cam.com/video/94gFi76-a8A/w-d-xo.html
@@lukestoyz th-cam.com/video/94gFi76-a8A/w-d-xo.html
This channel is insanely good and I don’t even own a Toyota lol
Kai is the hero we need
Great video, thanks for sharing. Now I don't have to install that diff spacer thats been kickin round my tool box last 5 years 🤣
PS- Jason explains sent me 💕👍
Bigger tires also change the Torque on the wheels and load on bearings. I've taking a stock 3rd gen 4runner with stock tires places guys with 4 inch lifts go. You are 100% correct. Driver skill is far more important. I like the smaller tires and More torque, crawling speed.
Awesome ! Indonesia here played around with hilux N80, fortuner, and a prado 150, learned a lot from all your videos Kai, Thanks and have a great toyotas, cheers
My friend had a lifted 2nd gen 4runner. He didn't have diff drop and his cv axle alignment was horrible and bound often. It became un-driveable. I drive an old silverado 2500 that uses torsion bars and it is also one of those vehicles that you need to have a diff drop as things get messed up really fast if not. Like you said - it is vehicle and model dependant.
I've been on the fence for months about getting a diff drop and finally found your video! Now im not ordering a diff drop and going to mesure my front suspension angles haha. Thank you so much for being so in depth and informative! You sir have gained a follower and respect!
I got one with my Dobinson lift. I was too lazy to put it on. Years later I see this video so now I’m glad that I did not put it on. Lol. 😂
Wow! I wish I had known this a couple of years ago. I took my 07 FJC MT to the shop to replace the cv axles, and they recommended a diff drop. I had it done. I since then have converted my FJ into an overlander and have several trails under my belt. There are no issues yet. With my FJ having a 3" suspension lift, maybe I'll have that diff drop reversed in the future. I don't like the possible 1" of lost ground clearance. Thanks Kai!!
You eluded to the spindle lift kits have advantages and disadvantages. I’d love a video with you take on these kits!
Kai, you are without a doubt the most thorough, and honest tech guy on TH-cam.
Awesome as always. Now take a look at the 100 series and the torsion bar. If you need a rig to video, you can use mine! (I did do the diff drop on my LX470)
Fantastic video. I laughed when you said be careful with spacers. I trashed several steering arms before realising it was the extra drop spacers created.
This is popular in the zr2 world too. The diff drops make the CV bottom out internally slightly in mid compression
Thank you sir! I appreciate your FACT (math) based approach to the answers you provide. Instead of just being a mindless sheep and going with the guy's opinion standing next to you.
I appreciate your time and effort in all your videos!
Note ! the axle snap after engine rev down , so it seems it is the back torque input from larger tires that snap the CV? Under compression , where you have the highest torque/traction, the stock diff has a lower axle angel , where the diff drop actually has a higher angel . In full expansion the drop diff wins, but not much torque in a wheel off the ground! And how-about , when you are turning the wheels full stop L or R and still have full load on the axle?
Thanks for putting the message out! I been singled out in the past as the crazy dude yelling at the clouds but you’re putting out the evidence, ground clearance is everything when riding on IFS. Thanks for the videos dude, hopefully business takes off so I can become a patreon and buy some of those sweet knobs. Again, thank you Kai!
My understanding is that an
A-Trac equipped vehicle with it activated can prevent the few similar cv snapping scenarios as shown in your video. Preventing excess wheel spin and sudden traction.
I would never go for a diff drop and your advice is spot on, rather if I had money, I would invest in portal axles. As usual, precise to the point advice.
Definetly, the extra diff clearance is worth it.
@@modarkthemauler diff still stays in the same spot.
@@RoyFJ65 Relative to ground you gain clearance with portal axles. Relative to suspension, yes the diff stays in the same place.
@@modarkthemauler true you get clearance on the axles but the center still stays in the same spot. Now that you mention portals, thats the real lift that basically fixes all the issues. Check out Megacruiser from Toyota, perfect execution of a off road capable vehicle.
You seriously have the best information on toyota ifs!!! Keep up the good work!
You’re a Toyota National Treasure 😂. Keep up the good work. I really enjoy these videos.
Excellent video, as always! I have been wondering about this for the longest time (about 20 years)but I could never get a definitive answer. Now on my 3rd Toyota truck lifted I’m glad never did.
I always install a suspension lift that’s no more than 2 inches with a set of 33’s. I’m my opinion is the perfect set up for highway and off road driving.
Note: I am interested on the shift knob for my 2016 Tacoma manual transmission. Are you able to ship to Canada yet?
Thanks! Great way to build an IFS. My FJ is also 2" lift, despite it looks bigger with wider control arms and tall fenders. International shipping will turned on soon! You can sign up my email list and I will notify you when it is ready.
@@TinkerersAdventure Great!! Thanks, will do.
Another fantastic video. You should make a video about how to get as much droop as possible! Using that arm style diff drop, aftermarket UCA’s, extended + spacer coilovers, and high articulation cv axles. What is the theoretical limit to the stock suspension design using aftermarket parts without going for long travel IFS? Or at least do a video about maximizing droop, even if you don’t take it all the way. Thanks again for the fantastic content! Reconsidering my diff drop now 😂
Please do this!
Your videos answered all my questions I’ve asked myself and others in the past 12 years.🤔 (Purchased ‘08 FJ in ‘11) 👍🏼
I’m a Nissan guy and I still really enjoy your videos. Keep it up!
Me too. I have a 2011 Xterra AT Pro-4X, but I used to have a 2006 FJ Cruiser MT. I have to say, I like my Xterra much better. The resale value isn't as good. That's the one big negative. However, the frame is so much stronger, and you don't have to do a body mount chop to fit larger tires. Unfortunately, because Nissan didn't sell many 2nd Gen Xterras, aftermarket support is limited, and expensive.
Thank you for what you do, with your technical explanations it would be great for you to look into the benefits of bigger tires besides ground clearance and more sidewall for off-road. Maybe even look into what regearing after adding bigger tires does
I did a fab tech 6” lift. Not possible without a did drop. Preloead ‘lifts’ a couple inches probably do not matter.
Not intelligent off reading where you’re spinning tires will snap it up no matter what. If your tires are spinning, get a locker, use traction aids, pick a better line, get better tires, or don’t do it. Emotional people always have problems in all aspects of life.
You crystalize what was extremely vague to me. Thank you.
Every video you make is superb! I learn something from you EVERY TIME! Especially because you often use Ironman 4x4 products to compare and that’s what I’m running on my 2019. Keep up the great videos!
As always great info. I'm always shocked I don't see your work cited more on Sequoia grps.
The arm style diff drop was $695 Australian, so $465 US. Still a lot, and it doesn't seem to be available in the US.
You're correct. But if I could pull 10" travel like I hoped for, it sounds like a bargain to me. A 11.5" travel +2 LT costs almost $6K USD all set and done.
I think it’s worth looking into being made here for that US price. A lot of guys would buy it. I would
575AUD from phat bars Australia.
Bit cheaper than Kaon 👍
I have an n70 hilux here in Australia. With 2inch lift arb Bp51 suspension, I was getting cv bind up pretty badly, UCA'S superior engineering alloy billet , LCA'S replaced to super pro offset , wheels are +15 fuel covert bead locks ,tyres 285/70 ×17 , I used the Kaon diff drop and removed the Cv bind completely, great content!
Artic Trucks themselves do not do a diff drop when they build the AT35 D-Max (OK, not a Toyota), but this does show that it is probably not always necessary. Will the CV joints wear out quicker, possibly, but then again the larger tyres of the AT35 also cause increased wear for brakes, wheel bearings, diffs, etc... Essentially you are getting increased off roading ability and playing with durability. It is a price that sometimes has to be payed.
Some of the aftermarket cv axles have slip yokes and extend at full droop. This supposedly eliminates the need for a diff drop.
The best Toyota and IFS channel
So, I have a '21 SR5. I added a 3" ICON lift, 33" tires with a zero offset, and it's works perfect in the desert. No need at all for anything else
Something I didn't see mentioned, but I see a lot of when people do Diff Drops on Toyota Trucks & SUVs specifically, is that you need to bend/adjust the breather tube bracket if you do a front diff drop. The front diff drop will pull the breather hoses against the steering rack lines/clamps, specifically the ADD Actuator breather, over time it will cut into the lines and allow moisture to drain into the ADD itself and cause corrosion. Due to where the breather hole is for the ADD Actuator, the moisture will drain along the side of the casing and pool along the bottom just under the finger switches that are used by the actuator for timing/position; once you start getting corrosion along those switches/tracks you'll start seeing intermittent and/or full failure of the ADD Actuator. From my experience, that's been the most common failure of the ADD Actuators in Part-Time 4WD systems by Toyota is moisture induced corrosion confusing the position signals (something you can easily verify by either using a known good ADD to plug into the harness and/or manually jumping pins to tell the 4WD ECU which position it's in). It was something we found out on the T4R.org forums and verified myself on multiple vehicles over the last year or two that have come in for 4WD issues; I've also been able to "repair" multiple ADD Actuators simply by cleaning the contacts and replacing the grease if it's contaminated (though, I should point out; this was specifically for ones that were outputting incorrect position signals; not ones where the corrosion ate the motor up).
So just passing the knowledge along to you guys, it's easy to see if you look at the steering rack lines near the intermediate shaft with a light and use either a prybar or your hand if you can reach back there and just push the steel bracket away a half an inch. May save you a headache down the line... or just you know... not run a Diff Drop if you don't need it like our friend here points out?
Thanks for sharing! That is a valuable piece of information. Makes a lot of sense
Man, you have some great videos and explain things to us normal folk very well and easy to understand. Thank you for your time and effort making these videos!
My diff drop kit from Revtek on my 2020 Tacoma had created stress on my diff mount, and the nut ripped through my frame. So when I engage 4x4 it would lift the front diff under load (turning usually) and allowed the front driveshaft to contact the transmission housing when rotating and the U joint cut chunks of aluminum from the transmission housing.
What are you thoughts on KDSS spacers? I’m about to purchase a Bilstien kit 2” lift. Not buying diff drop kit or adding UCA. I own a 2016 Lexus GX 460 and adding 285/70/17 K03’s. Thank you so much. Keep up the great work. Also adding your shifter to my list.
I did the diff drop because my mechanic recommended it since I have a 3.5 lift kit on my taco. He said it would cause too much wear and tear on the CV axles. I was also breaking the boots but I didn't know there were high angle boots available.
I'll have to check my truck, pretty sure i've got plenty clearance between diff and skid plate on the 3rd gen 4runner, no need for spacer between skid and frame either
Ack - which I watched this before adding my Differential Drop. Too lazy to get ride of it now. Great video.
I took the brackets off the front diff and redesigned them so the diff drops . Now I made my own skid plates with wings tat stick out in to the bottom a-arms. This way with my front cv protector’s the cv joints are only unprotected from the back side . I think I dropped my diff around 3/4 of an inch. Now my skid plates the bottom flat one is 1/4 inch plate now the front is 3/16. I recently made a front bumper to replace the one behind the plastic so it’s for a winch ! Yeah fits behind the original plastic bumper cut one hole under the front plate . It’s all 1/4 plate boxed on the bolt on ends then flat under the winch with 4 gussets on the ends timing the flat in to the boxed ends . Then a peace of channel across the bottom with two threaded holes for the middle bumper cover bolts ! Great advise on all the lift products and your facts then most for your knowledge!
This man Know's his stuff. Thank you for the knowledge.
Best technical and thoughtful analysis out there!
Another excellent discussion. Glad you addressed the "real" diff drop, i.e., Phatt (and similar) from Australia. I came to a similar conclusion as you did that the 1" spacers really don't accomplish much.
Bringing the science to all the country bubbas I love it. Keep up the great work, you got a new subscriber
Yes, I just saw a 35” tires on an FJ Cruiser 07 with a suspension upgrade and lift kit on a 2 wheel drive.These where Nitro tires & heavy bumper. I guess they went off roading.
I love these videos. I just installed a 3inch lift kit on my 2021 4runner and I didn't do the diff drop. I'm running BFGOODRICH stock size 265's for now, when those are worn-out I'll change the wheels and tires going for 33's.
Pretty happy with the results.
11:26 - I was yelling this in my head the entire video. The mental gymnastics are real. People who do a lift and then drop the diff back down because they dont do rock crawling and therefore dont need the clearance... why dont you just not do a lift?? Like you said, the suspension articulation is better at stock height. CV angles are perfect, driveshaft angles are perfect, CG is optimal... Stock tires have better torque to the ground, better effective gear ratio, better steering, etc, etc. People ruin perfectly good 4x4's and dont even know it. Stuff is not supposed to break all the time. That happens because you messed everything up with your lift. I had this realization with sports cars a long time ago, but its true with 4x4's too: almost every departure from stock configuration makes the vehicle worse.
I own an Xterra Pro-4X. On the foruns, everyone is against diff drops. They just Tiran Swap for more suspension travel and track width. They say Nissan CV joints are strong enough to handle the increased angkes. I'm still researching it. Diff drop lifts are obviously more expensive. However, your front drive shaft is much stronger than your front axles abd CV joints. If you jack up your front IFS angles, I susoect the axles will break first when off-roading. I doubt the front drive shaft will break, if you do the diff drop correctly.
Man, some really in depth and well presented info. So much effort into demonstrating the concepts. Well done.
These videos are a MASTER CLASS in reasoned argument. So valuable.
Thanks for making this video - it helps clear up a lot of internet mythology. I love that you added the note on Landcruiser 100*, just before I was about to install the diff drop.
Would you ever do a video on good practices when working on vehicles? I'm looking at shots of your shop and can see it's extremely meticulous. A video on practical advice to at-home mechanics or even shop owners might be super helpful. Thanks again.
Thanks! That’s a good topic. Great suggestion!
When just started off roading I had a diff drop installed with my small lift, because I had read that's what you're supposed to do. But I was annoyed at how much it lowered the skid plate. So I finally removed the skid plate and noticed the front diff mounts just barely moved, but the plates had to move a lot to clear them. So I removed the diff drop and have been happy since.
There was also an occasional "thunk" when I came to a stop that has since disappeared after removing the drop. Don't know what it was though.
What kind of truck do you have? I have a 2011 Tacoma- I installed a diff drop bushing kit and i have this thunk once in a while too
@@LarsErickson-o7k it's a 2005 gx.
I love your content. This exact video needs to be seen by every Australian four wheel driver!
This is your most controversial take on suspension/lifts imo. I know my 02 Taco TRD loved to eat the bearings in the diff that held the inner cv stub once lifted. A diff drop seemed to help. The argument that a higher angle on the cv's doesn't affect wear much is kinda sus, because all ifs systems break more axles at droop and with the steering locked (aka highest possible outer cv angle); it's clearly weaker with more angle and you failed to take into account steering as part of your angle calculations. Let's be honest; most ifs lifted vehicles I see barely have any droop left in the suspension and it's my own personal opinion that people should go as large of a tire as the wheel well fits with as little lift as possible. Most lifted ifs vehicles that I see would bind the tires in the wheel well if the suspension could actually still cycle to full compression. How many people actually remove the springs and guarantee tire clearance throughout the suspension's range of motion? I know I'd take lower lift, lower cv angle, less ground clearance, more useable droop, and full suspension range of motion with as large of tire as possible (that doesn't bind/rub) because it's more useful/less maintenance in just about every situation for my uses.
Excellent as always. Our FJ group refers to you as the FJ Guru and you prove it with each new video. Maestro!
Great video. Same thoughts work for older Toyota designs. Like my 1st gen sequoia. Diff drops are wildly regarded in this community as useless for a lot of the same reasons talked about in this video!
The kaon arm drop was just released for the FJ! Would love to see a follow-up video to see how you would set it up.
So, this may be hard to do but I was wondering if you might consider a video about installing lifts on high mileage vehicles. A lot of folks over the last several years especially have posted videos or made comments in forums about putting lifts (spacer or springs) on high, sometimes very high, mileage vehicles that they bought because they wanted to get something cheap. Then they complain about vibrations, rough ride and pre-mature drive line wear. I have two ideas about this. One is that the original suspension components are worn and when they change to new after market components and then subject the old gear to hard use they have issues. What they should do is overhaul the old components before adding anything new. The second idea is that after 125,000 to 200,000 miles (yes, some folks are buying vehicles with 200,000 miles on them and then modifying them as if nothing will happen) the factory parts, especially the CV axles have worn in within the factory designed ranges of articulation. When someone throws a lift on and sets a new static droop position the old and worn CV joints being asked to turn in a constant static position that they only experienced briefly before modifications. I suspect this is one of the causes of the vibration so commonly complained about after people lift high mileage vehicles. This one seems more common in full time 4WD or AWD vehicles, of course. In fact, they report when their complaints are expressed to the manufacturer they are told to try replacing the CV axles.
Good idea. I have a 1st gen taco at 260K miles and some light modifications. Maybe I’ll make a video on that
Just found your channel and watched a bunch of your videos. Although I don't drive a Toyota (2004 Suburban 2500), I found your scientific/engineering aproach very interesting and useful.
The conclusion absolutely floored me lmao
Awesome. I have been saying that for years. Glad to hear it from someone else.
Awesome info! Thanks for clearing this up. I have a 3rd gen 4Runner. I’m planning 1.5-2” lift, 33” tires and spc control arms
Can you make video on old model toyota IFS like 3rd gen 4runner. That would be very interesting, and ai think a lot of people will be happy to see it too
"Don't do it" and "No. You. Don't." Good advice, and nice video.
Didn’t expect you to get one out so quick after I requested this topic. Much appreciated man! Really helps affirm how I was feeling about it and back it up with some actual numbers.
Wow! I really appreciate the time you take explaining
The “WHY” behind your views. Keep up the great content.
I’ve been wanting your take on drop bracket lifts ever since I first found your channel, should be good
Thanks. This does not cover drop bracket lift like the Rough country 6” lift, which uses a taller spindle. BUT, i will present something like that but maybe even better, stay tuned :)
@@TinkerersAdventure oh sorry, I must’ve seen the title and misread.
But yes, I think a video on drop bracket lifts would be very helpful to many people in truck modding community!
@@Absolute_Unit135 It's funny, the Toyota community thinks drop bracket lifts are trash, however, when I was younger and into full-size pickups, for the guys that ran IFS on those, the drop bracket kits were considered the quality kits and the way to go. Personally, I think drop bracket kits have their place, it just depends what you're trying to do with the vehicle and what your main performance goals are. I like the fact that the drop bracket kits at least make an attempt to maintain the factory geometry.
This man designed the Tinkerer metal shift knob. I bought one for my Taco. I fuckin love it. Nice work man.
-Sincerely, a very satisfied customer
Thanks for the support man!
I'm running OME BP51 with OME UCA and never had any issues. Even from Old man emu, they say there is no need for a diff drop with their kits.
I have two 4Runners. Both are gen 5th. One is lifted with Bilstein 6112 + JBA + kit to drop the differential (SR5, 4x4) and the other one will be with Bilstein 5100 only (Limited, AWD) and 3" lifted. We will see the difference soon...
Just found this channel. This has been super helpful with factual information.
(i can tell you from racing off-road - not even counting the durability) the most benefit of any axle is ground level or slightly below (usually slightly below equals negative suspension lift).
Example - just look at an ultra4 suspension and look how flat the CV and arm angles are.
the reason is the faster the axle spins the more it tries to level out. this means if you have your axle point down (high in the middle low at the wheel) when you hit the gas, the forces on the tire are up (the tire is trying to move away from the ground) equaling less grip. These forces a magnify the harder you hit the gas. yes, you can run a hard spring to stop this but will worsen the ability to move through uneven terrain.
slightly below (usually the most benefits for rear independent suspension) will make the truck lower but it makes the axle act more like anti-squat - force the tire down and lift the truck when the axle flatten out. this usually gives you the most tire grip and you can run a bit softer spring which give the suspension ability to move more freely.
also the more angle you have the less efficiency/power you have. the drivetrain is fighting to say straight which takes energy.
if you want more lift (don't do it to your street truck) run bigger tires and cut the body to make them fit.
Make senses, good info! The factory Toyota axles are actually 4 degrees. Outers higher than inners. The tie rods are almost horizontal.
Consistently the absolute best information. Toyota gospel level learning.
I opted for the "1-washer" diff drop of 1/4" to correct some of the CV alignment on my mild lift. That's it.