Trying to Break The Miata: Billet Compressor Wheel Science!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ก.พ. 2016
- Find your wheel at: www.jdsperformanceturbos.com
Hey everyone!! Thanks for being so patient between videos, this one took over a week just to film! Plenty of B&B to come in the next few weeks as well. Anyways, I definitely give this product a thumbs up overall. As with any upgrade that has zero drawbacks, the gains are not going to be monumental, but I thought it was really cool that I could actually measure the increased performance of it! (Plus I've never really found any real-life back-to-back testing of these things online). I'll see you in a few days, I've got loads of stuff to install on B&B (went a different route on a couple things). Plus....... don't think I forgot about hitting 20K, there are going to be some serious winners this time around!
Has one of my videos ever motivated you to head into the garage and finish your project or saved you hundreds of dollars in labor? Consider buying me a gallon of E85! www.buymeacoffee.com/carpassion
Thats a very elaborate way of describing the placebo effect
+Jonka Olofsson Just wanted to get my point across
+TheCarPassionChannel 1st video in, your video is very informative - subscribed and liked
those numbers for a stock 1.6 are mind blowing
yea awesome
He does have ARP head studs but I can say from my own experience with my own '95 1.8l that they're not required. However, when I did my engine refresh rebuild, I did torque the OEM head bolts down to the high end of the factory manual torque spec. But otherwise, it makes 15.4psi on a GT2554R @ 6500rpm with 220wtq running 80% ethanol, e80flexfuel and there's zero signs of the head lifting. Greg did push more torque than me though. Anyone I know on TH-cam pushing 235-240wtq on a 1.6l (250whp+) does have ARP head studs. Though they're not required. It's just a good measure. IMO as does all the evidence suggest is you of you're pushing more boost to NEED the head studs, you're likely going to need forged connecting rods too.
Ps the 15.4psi is a peak boost number that it is tuned to not reach until the RPM's are a ways past 5500rpm.
For most Miata engines, peak torque is around 4-5000rpm. So you absolutely don't want to make 15+psi at below 5000rpm. Because the engine makes the most torque in that area of the rev range. So if I had the boost set to 15.4psi @ 4,000rpm, it's very likely to hit 250wtq and blow the engine.
Also as Greg has said before, every different turbo is going to make different power at the same boost. So my 15.4psi with a gt2554r might make the same torque as your gt28 makes at 14psi. The exact psi # is errelevant, all that matters is you use whatever target psi to reach your target torque figure. There's a lot to cover.
So you want your boost target to look something like this to not blow your rods:
10-11psi @ 3-4k rpm
11-12psi @ 4-5.5k rpm
Finally, from 5600rpm to redline you can try and ramp up the boost in a linear climb to keep your wheel torque as flat as possible, whether it takes 13 or maybe 17psi... Whatever keeps your torque curve flat at where it peaked. But never let it go beyond the safety level.
Connecting rods tend to give away at around 240-250wtq. And the factory 5 speeds also give away right there too.
Quinn has 235wtq on his red turbo 1.6l but he's gone through a couple 5 speeds at that. He also runs 91octane with a very conservative spark map. I run a conservative spark map for e80 that looks similar to Quinn's. Greg's helped me SOOOO MUCH with my build. If it wasn't for both of them, the car wouldn't exist today. So many thanks 😊🙏
225wtq ftw across the rev range for lots of abuse without blowing your engine and be easy on the 1st gear launches from a dig to spare your 5 speed.
did anyone notice the 'y' in youtube didnt stick 11:30
+justin thompson Yeah LOL
+justin thompson Put a week's work into a video, top comment is how a letter didn't stick, lol. Welcome to the internet. Just so you guys can sleep at night, I did go back and put the two missing bits on.
Really really fantastic video, you can see all of the effort and detail you put into the testing process. Thank you for going where no Miata has gone before and making our lives a whole lot easier!
Nice job on this! I was really pleased with how well you did to compare the 2. I think your analysis was spot on! You may not be an engineer officially, but your approach was very much the approach an R&D engineer would take.
Very cool video dude, the detailed comparison was excellent. I can tell a lot of time and effort went into the making of this, its much appreciated I'm Turboing the exact same Miata, I have learned tons from your channel thank you, and def. keep it up!
Josh @ JDS Performance Turbos. ...awesome video man! !! I'm totally stoked with the results...best bang for the buck upgrade! of course with and upgrade you will need to tune for Max performance...congrats on breaking records!
+Josh Smith I had a good time making it, I'm stoked I got some measurable results! Thanks again for the wheel.
Wow, looks like a lot of work went into this testing. It's awesome!
+SlipknotMaggot0526 Yeah it really took a lot of time, I wanted to make it as fair as possible. I really dislike when performance comparisons are done with any parts and I can easily call out how biased the tests are.
+TheCarPassionChannel journal bearing or ball bearing?
A Matos The one in this video is ball bearing.
Wow man, this is really good data. Using a rolling dyno is sometimes really inaccurate if you don't start the run with even the same exhaust tempurature. The on road testing with different gears testing both boost threshold and lag is something that most guys leave to the butt dyno.
Thank you. This goes beyond what many wheel makers will do.
Great job and amazing video. Very cool to see science, math, and car modifications all coming together and explained statistically.
Grats on those numbers and thanks for putting in the effort and crunching the numbers to make this so interesting!
i appreciate all work you put into these test. great vid
Brilliant video. Great homework and very informative and precise. Thank you.
Very well made! 👏 thankyou for going into this much depth!
great video man thankyou for all the hard work you put into these
I love the scientific testing! There needs to be a lot more of this in the car community.
Well done. Thanks for a thorough test. Very informative.👍
Man I love your Chanel made me go and get a Miata mine is a stock 1.6 but I’m doing a upgrade and your video help me so thank so much man keep up the good work man
very cool video, love how in depth your statistics are
I have got to say this: dude you are awesome,thank you for not filling your commentary with "uhhhhs,ummm,butuhhh,theeuhhs"...etc. I know that most people don't care about that but I do.Super informative.
+Audiwan Kenobi I feel like I've really been able to clean it up since I started doing regular videos about 7 months ago. I don't think a lot of people really notice the "ums" everywhere, but when a video doesn't have them, it sure does flow a lot smoother.
Yes man!...just try not to stray too far from this near perfect formula you got here....mad respect.
Beautiful work ! Love it
Super interesting video, I love all of your content and can't wait for me broke and boosted videos. Keep it up!
Yet another great video. Well done Greg.
im gana give this a like because of the explanation of the butt dyno
Great video mate, I've gone with a 2860rs and it's nice to see what exactly I'm paying a bit more for over the 2860r. Great comparisons of the wheels and nice graphics to get info across.
@TheCarPassionChannel
Just want to make a shout out! This is probably the best channel I have ever watched, you do a great job and the Miata Community is grateful for your PASSION. Keep the Boost Rollin
+Troy Sebo I appreciate the compliments very much, thanks for watching!
I dont have a miata but really enjoyed the data and information given here.. keep up the excellent work.. butt dyno explanation ftw!!! lol
Fantastic work and breakdown
fantastic information thank Greg!!! still can't get over ur numbers!!
+Quinn Hoekstra If my 2554 can do it, your 2860 should be able to without breaking a sweat :D
Props! Keep doing what you do!
Nice billet wheels are a good upgrade I have on garret 57 trim its going to my stock civic si 1.6 liter should be anywhere from 320whp to 400whp on about 10 to 12 psi good video keep up the good work !
these videos are gold
DAMN GREG! Back at it again with those white Rotas!
Good job with the detective work keep it up
Great video man keep up the good work
Saw it on Instagram couldn't wait! Things a tank!
Thanks for your effort
holy God that's a lot of power!!! you might be needing rods soon lol.
That's a sick video, with some sick science on a sick mx5 (that what everyone except the US call them). Personally got an R33 build series if you interested.
great vid as always, tons of work and great info shared. wanted to tell you about some open source software to record your screen, it's called OBS (open broadcast software) it's originally designed for gamers to live stream their gameplay to twitch but has screen recording capabilities and is actually really powerful. I think having the screen captures would be a great improvement to your videos
great video keep them coming
the changed angle of incidence of the blades will offset the pressure curve in reference to compressor rpm
great video as always greg...its given me some good stuff to think about with my turbo build....im using g19 engineering parts..have alook at their web site...they do some great stuff for the uk..
Those numbers for a stock 1.6 are mind blowing!
Your welcome sir and thanks again. you went heaps beyond what I was looking for! Let me know if you ever need anything!
+Josh Smith I might be contacting you for a 60R wheel at some point :)
Damn dude! Congrats on beating my 1999 1.8 turbo numbers with a stock 1.6L! You have me by basically 20 foot pounds of torque. That's quite impressive!!
have you considered upgrading your blow off valve or Waste gate? it may enable a more solid hold in the middle and not bleed off. just the thought, couldn't be sure
PLEASE DO TUNING BASICS! Or how ro tune.
love the videos keep up the great work!
This.
It's coming boys, it's coming. Peep my last upload.
Sweet baby Jesus!!!
great video!
great info man and the butt dyno explanation made me giggle
Does it have an Extended blade? will it make a big difference on journal bearing turbo?
great video bro
+TheCarPassionChannel I just bought a 94 NA8 Miata with the full VooDoo II kit. Im trying to figure out if I should go with the Hydra upgrade or Megasquirt. Great numbers here... so I figured I would check with you. Also, what injectors would you suggest? I am hoping to get around 250hp or so with those upgrades. I'm running the same 2554 turbo. Thanks!
hahah I am looking up mazdaspeeds in my area, and tabbed out. heard "my blood pressure is 265 over whatever" and cracked up
can you make a tutorial on how to tune. i am building a 2005 mazda 3 2.3l into a turbo and would like to tune it myself
Anyone know safe turbo numbers for a 1.8 NB with a 5spd? Thinking about rx8 injectors, mega squirt, GT2554R if they cannot handle a ton of power or a GT2560R if they can handle more.
Also if you had to rebuild the motor, mine is a healthy 156k, what would be the weakest point to upgrade handle safe boost? Would love to run 200-225whp and similar torque.
My butt Dyno works pretty good , it doesn't get affected by loud exhausts.
I've also got a certain road in Mexico that when I pull out of it onto the main road and floor it, I check my speed by the time I get to a certain road sign.
Awesome Engineering Explained segment! Advise: when recording your computer screen use the Chrome extension Mediacore Capture - works great to record any window you opened on your screen, it records sound as well.
+Julien Lallemand Awesome man thanks! Next time I need to record the screen I'll try that out.
the new wheel makes it sound like an angry velociraptor!
How is your car not blown up lol
Hopefully turboing my 90 Miata soon bro!
E85
+Pingman E85 doesn't make the rods any stronger, lol.
No but knock resistances is extremely high
Pingman This is true. Which is where dyno time comes into play. Making good numbers reliable is all about safety!
it's a sweet setup
Sounds like you would benefit from an improved turbine wheel to drive it. Along with being a lighter better flowing wheel, the mass in the wheel is concentrated along the center instead of spread out on like in the stock wheel. This is huge in reducing the rotational inertia of the wheel. Same as figure skaters pulling their arms in and spinning faster.
definitely worth it :D
I can't imagine if my Miata made 250+ WHP. So jealous!
A 270hp Miata
God damn
Really nice video! Love your sense of humour!
What is your opinion of frame rails? Are you ever going to install them?
+David Texugo I hear good things about them, and yes I plan on it!
did you happen to log the intake temps? since the wheel is more efficient I wonder if you could see a corresponding temp drop
There is probably very little difference in actual compressor efficiency. Through the middle of the pull its probably within 2%, lots of Garrett Compressors are really good even the ones with a 30 year old design. Shockingly they usually do very good under 1 bar boost. You might have a 10-15°f difference but it's going to be pretty small.
The megasquirt definitely logged the data though.
Hey Greg! clean your wheels bro! lol great video, And thanks for your hard work! :)
+Rust Bucket Miata I can't help it man, I love driving the car more than cleaning it.
lol i can agree with you there haha!...But man that pretty white under all that dust is beauty! lol, (Driving beats cleaning all day) :)
You killed me with that butt dyno 😂
Wow, nice video! I can tell so much work went into making and cutting this together, very well done.
Two questions: Where did you have the wheel installed? I don't think I saw a link and you said it kind of fast, was it pureturbos?
And also, just as important as power, what does this run in the quarter?? If you're gentle with the diff and tranny you should be pulling low 12 second passes no?
Awesome work putting all that power through the stock block!
+Mach5sun Yes sorry, Pure Turbos! I have yet to run it in the 1/4, I know the trap speed is a true indicator of power. Being friendly to the driveline, I'm thinking high 12's. With slightly less power I ran an 8.558@87.54 in the 1/8 mile. In the next few days I'm going to mark out a "quarter mile" and run it to get an idea of what it can do. I should be able to get very accurate numbers with the combination of video, gps, and ms datalogging.
I used to drive by your place when I'd pick up my gf at the time lol. Driveway full of miatas
Fatal_Inertia give me address
@@flyingsloth2606 why
Devon Swindell for reasons Undiscussable on the internet
Greg, I was watching the video of your Miata on TJHunt's channel and saw you had a lightened flywheel. It seems to be a bit of a grey area whether lightening flywheels is good on boosted cars or not. Would be great to see a video on this!
+Grazo22 The "claims" are that it hurts spoolup because there is less load on the turbo. I've never seen any testing done to prove that, and I disagree with it. When you're accelerating, the turbo is loaded up by the weight of the entire car, it doesn't care how light the flywheel is. Anyways, just a theory, I freaking love mine and I'd go lighter if I could. The rev-matching on downshifts is super snappy!
+TheCarPassionChannel I'm inclined to agree with that. Use to love it on my N/A Clio for the reasons you day but now I'm going boosted its an interesting debate the net has never settled. Would be a pain to conduct back to back tests! Keep up the good work on the channel, I really enjoy it.
Grazo22 Yeah that's one test I'll proooobably leave up to speculation, lol. I got another good one coming up though regarding turbo testing, probably in another month.
The Y came off on your youtube sticker!!!
Hey I just thought of something. You're in california yeah? How the hell do you smog this thing?
Love your vids, just got my Miata and I've watched all your videos for it! I was wondering if you have anything for the clutch?
+mehmeh Not yet, will have that in the future though!
+TheCarPassionChannel awesome! Keep up the work man, loving your channel. I can't wait for the weather to get better so I start putting your videos to use!
I was wondering if you could help me figure out what turbo to put in my car. I drive an 04 LS Miata, it's completely stock at this point and I eventually wanna get it boosted. I'm not quite sure which turbo I wanna run. It seems most people choose between either the gt2554 and the gt2560. I'm just wondering which you think would be better for street use, I don't plan on taking this to the track or the strip. Any advice would be great
+Alejandro Flores With a 2004 engine, I would say a 2560R would be well suited. The 2554R runs out of air a little quicker. The 2004 engine will be able to spool a 2560R very fast, the only reason I'd say go for a 2554 is if you are looking for maximum spool at the cost of losing a little power at the top end. You'll be very happy with either one, but that is the trade off.
If the new compressor wheel is taking in more air than the original one wouldn't that extra force needed to pull it through make it spool slower? I don't understand how that extra air flow doesn't slow down the spool...
Hey Greg how you get your hardtop brackets to make a good seal? I also have the garage star brackets but mine don't seal properly
+pos miata Are your factory latches on the trunk adjusted right? What part of the top doesn't seal?
+TheCarPassionChannel it's the front that doesn't seal right when it rains water gets in
pos miata Your bushings might not be adjusted right in the rear latches.
+TheCarPassionChannel I'll check it out awesome video by the way !
I was waiting for you to post a video about the new wheel! What would you consider the best bang for the buck, a 2554r with the new billet wheel or a 2560r?
+onelane Well they're the same price and the same quality, it just depends what your goals are. the 60R will spool slower, but has the power potential for about +30rwhp. The 54S spools faster but also falls off more in the top end.
Are you on club roadster yet? I'm sure they'ed love a build log. :)
+Kyle Barr I think I have an account there but I rarely post, I've never done a build thread on any car, I might do one someday on miataturbo.
I don't know much about turbos. But doesn't the wheel on the exhaust side have something to do with how fast it spools up?
+J HARMAZDA Yes. There are many different factors that affect spool up, some more than others. The turbine housing a/r, turbine wheel size, geometry, and weight, compressor wheel size, geometry, and weight.... many things!
That numbers.. 😱
Another awesome video man! Love learning more about turbo Miata stuff! I was wondering could you possibly try and shed some light on an issue I'm having with my Miata?
+CarObsessed96 Ask away
+TheCarPassionChannel I was driving to work the other day and the car shut off on me. I tested so many things just to find out my timing belt has either snapped or come off somehow. I haven't opened it up yet but I was just wondering are they non interference motors and is it difficult to do them? Also would you recommend replacing the water pump due to the fact they're cheap and you'd already be torn down to it? the car hadn't over heated and I've only owned it for about a month. Its a 1990 NA with a 93 1.6L motor 5 speed car with no performance mods besides cat back and header from previous owner.
CarObsessed96 It could be a broken timing belt, failed fuel pump, or failed CAS. It could also be a number of other things like broken wires, etc. They are non-interference, and you should definitely do the water pump if you do the belt, as well as the cam and crank seals, and anything else made of rubber that's really old! If you search "Party Miatas" I have a timing belt/water pump tutorial video.
God damn, I fear for your engine man. But man that sounds so delicious, cant wait to boost mine =)))
This is awsome!!!! are you running e85 or h2o meth? I am amazed at your numbers. great tune i reckon.
+Samuel Ross Yeah I totally forgot to mention I'm running E85. No extra injection of anything though.
+TheCarPassionChannel that that makes a lot of sense haha thanks for clarifying. I just bought my first Miata. 94 1.8 LSD hardtop. Your car motivates me to do my first turbo build, so keep your videos coming. They are fantastic! :)
Greg you need to get Adam from Revlimiter to make some custom gauges for Broke and Boosted and this car!
@ TheCarPassionChannel - Have you done a coolant reroute on either of your miatas? I have the stock cooling system on my NA8 95' and was wondering weather I should consider doing one as my system seems to get a little hot in Dallas during the summer especially if running the AC and I am still NA, we will be running 12psi shortly so thought I would ask!
+Troy Sebo Yes on my fast car I have done the reroute.
+TheCarPassionChannel
How hard is it to do with the motor in the bay? Will I want to kill myself?
+Troy Sebo Nope! The hardest part for me was tightening the bolts on the rear housing, but it's not too bad, just takes patience.
fckn fantastic video bro wish I had your amount of subs lol keep up awesome learning videos helps out a lot
@TheCarPassionChannel - Do you feel this new compressor wheel puts the characteristics of say a GT2560R into a smaller housing? Does the turbo hold boost longer or still tapper off at the where it used to?
+Troy Sebo It's really hard to say because I never tried to raise the boost up top with the stock wheel. The consensus is that it can flow more air, and 276whp is a really impressive number for a 2554R (IF the dyno is accurate which a lot of people are skeptical of. That's why I'm running the 1/4 mile next weekend, the trap speed doesn't lie). At areas of the dyno where the turbo was running the same boost level with both wheels, the car didn't make any extra power, so it's hard to say. Cars would have to by dyno'd literally back to back to get a better idea, but I just don't have the time/resources to be able to do that. (I'm lucky I have this dyno to use). As far as the housing size, some people install a 60R wheel into a 54R housing that's been machined, and supposedly there is little to no performance loss from running the smaller housing. The only downside to that is you have the weight of the 60R wheel as opposed to the smaller 54R wheel. These are questions I will try to answer someday!
+TheCarPassionChannel
Since you were running corn fuel during this dyno I am confused whether or whether not the new CHRA did anything. I know 276 is a kick ass number but if you were to give 2-3 characteristics that you noticed with the new wheel what would they be, for example faster spool? held boost better/longer? Thank you
Troy Sebo I was also running E85 when I originally dyno'd with the 2554/stock wheel. The main difference is I raised the boost in the high RPM to keep the torque flatter for longer. Could the cast wheel have done this? I'm not sure because I didn't try it. The most measurable difference was the transient response.
What turbo are you running on this beast? Planning on doing the same with a Miata next year!
Garrett GT2554R, seriously the best turbo for a stock Miata engine.
I like how everyone claims 250whp is the max on a stock engine and you are pushing way more atm! 😜👌
HP really matters not. The B series Mazda engine is only good to about 250# of torque. HP is irrelevant. After about 250 foot pounds the rods will bend and snap. Believe me, I have first hand experience with this..
elesjuan torque isn't what breaks engine internals, horsepower does. That's why literally everything inside of the engine is rated to HP and not torque.
94eh3 Except that you're wrong. Horsepower is a mathematical equation of torque and rpm.
elesjuan
and that's why you're not snapping rods at idle. It takes a certain amount of HP to break things. You proved my own point in your comment. Tell you what, go onto ANY website that sells rods, cylinder sleeves, or pistons. Go onto those websites and look at the maximum power recommendations for those items and tell me in what unit of power are they measured in.
94eh3 You can believe what you want, but you're incorrect. There's a significant number of 300 WHEEL horsepower stock rod miatas who don't have any problem breaking rods because they don't make enough torque for them to fail. Then there are DOZENS of cases of 240-260whp miatas who made 260-270tq and snap goes the rods.
But what do I know? I just build turbo miatas.
By measuring its weight, you're only measuring linear inertia, neglecting rotational inertia. For spinning things it's not only how much mass, but also where the mass is, that affects angular acceleration. It can be a good approximation when the shapes and dimensions of the wheels are nearly identical.
+unknownNODE But, without any tooling to measure rotational inertia, tossing them on the scale is an easy way to show that there is a difference in weight, which will probably translate into a difference in rotational inertia. Maybe maybe not. But I knew people would be asking, so I weighed them.
very cool video and explanation as well. just curious, may I ask how tall are you and can you do heeltoe easily? I plan to modify the steering column and hopefully tilt the steering wheel a bit higher. And your rims are so beautiful, BTW.
+董文博 5'11" and piece of cake! I should probably do a video on it.
yeah! Do it! I am 5'10'' and always blocked by steering wheel and steering column...
Do you make the stickers? If not where do you have them made? Thanks
+Victor dARKO I have them made by Vinyl Technica. If you were asking about my channel decals specifically I have them for sale in 7 colors! :)
why did you go with a turbo intead of a supercharger?
Is there any aftermarket turbine wheels bigger angles sizes etc.?
At that point you just go bigger turbo. You can't install bigger wheels without bigger housings or custom machine work.
where did you get your wing
How did the transmission hold? I thought it's max was ~240whp. it's a 5 speed I assume. right?
+Musa Bashir Torque is the killer! They're supposed to be safe to around 250wtq or so.
What roll bar is that?
I really love it and neeeed it!!
+Dude I Almost Had You Hard Dog! M2 Hardcore Hardtop Version
"Here in my garage, just got my brand new laptop over here, its pretty fun cruisin through the dyno datalogs. But you know whats better than Horsepower and Torque curves? Thats right, Miatas."
+Anukloses You have no idea how close I was to turning my intro into a Tai Lopez parody
+TheCarPassionChannel Haha I would of liked to see that. There are always future videos ;)
U should do a clutch replacement on a Miata