I like the idea of Panentheism where the universe exists within God but I don’t believe that God has personhood. I believe that the universe exists within God but God is still this transcendent force or energy that exists
@@telosbound just because I believe God doesn’t have personhood does not mean I believe he is like a rock. To me, God exists in a higher form than Personhood. He is something along the lines of pure energy.
@@telosboundwithin that is the assumption that Humans are on an objectively higher level on some ladder of creation/awareness. Perhaps less awareness is more possible for a creator? I’m not aware of all my internals nor do I force my heart to consciously beat, yet my body grew that organ and it beats on its own.
We are all part of a collective consciousness known as God. Our ego's are our self-conscious that are put in this meat sack on the physical plane to experience emotions and expand our consciousness, then we feed all that knowledge and experience to the collective conscious when we die and our ego's join the astral as a ever living entity. It may sound far fetched but meditate for long enough and this or something close to it is the conclusion you will find, whether you choose to believe so or not has no effect and is completely up to you I wish you all the best on your spiritual journey
Pantheism does not claim that God is impersonal, neither does Panentheism claim God is a personal being; Furthermore, Panenthiesm not only claims that All is in God, but also claims that God is in All
That depends on the definition of the two. I believe the definitions he offered are the best out there. Pantheism means everything (the universe, multiverse, existence, whatever)= god. There isn’t a distinction. If god would be personal however, then there would be a distinction, meaning we wouldn’t even be talking about pantheism but panentheism. Stephen Hawking for example said that while pantheism sounds cool it basically is unnecessary because it can’t be include a personal god. Again, that would be a form of panentheism.
@@worstusernameeverinhistory God IS the universe in pantheism. There is no distinction. Maybe you could equate that with Devine energies but that sounds more like a form of panentheism to me. Pantheism is more philosophical than metaphysical.
@@Joseph_thefather I have a question is God every human, every animal, every insect, every plant, every tree, every living organism, every atom, every molecule, every star, every planet, every galaxy, every material object that you see in youre house? Is God all of reality, and life, and all of space, and time, and all material manmade objects that exist, like you're phone, computer, the wall made of bricks, you're clothes, the wooden chair, you're closet..is all of that God? Is God all of that according to pantheism? Because thats similar what God is in hinduism and sikhism
@@worstusernameeverinhistory Yeah, pantheism says that everything and anything is god. But if everything is god then you might as well call it universe or whatever. Pantheism is kind of obsolete. Thats why I am a panentheist. I believe evrything to be part of god as I believe that nothing can exists without (outside) of god, but i still believe that there is a destinction between the parts and the object, I am part of god, you are part of god, but we arent god. Do you understand?
When I took shrooms and after a year of introspection and researching science, I formulated my belief that is similar to pantheism without knowin what it was before… this is triply
Mine was after listening to Neil DeGrasse Tyson & studying Gnosticism. I then discussed this w/my friend. He said to me that sounded like Pantheism. I read into it & I realized yes, it sounded just like that.
Pantheism makes more sense though. Love the fact that Panantheism still makes sense somehow as it's only problem is, it's convince one into believing God is a person without connecting any dots.
There's no existence except God. This can be understood in 3 types. 1) If Only God exists then everything is God This idea is Pantheism or you can expand it a bit in Panentheism too. Other two are the two interpretations of Islamic Concept of Absolute Onenness of God (Tawhid) or Absolute Monotheism in most purest forms. 2) Only God truly exists, and this universe is just a mere illusion. A reflection of Him that wants to be known. This Oneness/Unity of Being (Wahdatush Shahood) 3) Only God truly exists, but while everything comes from God, not everything is God itself but rather reflects the Oneness of God's essence This is Oneness/Unity of Being (Wahdatul Wajood)
I believe the third type is the best way to describe panentheism, at least my view of it. I believe if god is the most complete, highest, all powerful, all knowing being and creator of the universe and all existence like literally every Abrahamic religion fundamentally claims him to be, then he has to be panentheistic. Sometimes people say panentheism and classical theism (or just the religions) contradict each other because they can’t see a clear distinction between god and creation but there is. God ≠ creation. That would be pantheism. And if it were true god can’t be its own entity. But if god truly is its own being than there already is a distinction between the two. Like a cell (part of creation) makes up the human body. A single cell alone can’t be called a human (god) though. You have to put a certain amount of cells together in order to create a human. Only then a human as its own separate entity can exist.
@@Joseph_thefather rather than Panentheism I would classify it as non dualistic Monotheism. Creation is not contained within God but is radiated from him like a distorted reflection emanating from God. There is this with transcendent God that we can't truly grasp idea or state of His Being but what we can know is that it transcends all limits of dimensional space time. This is how I personally see God as.
@@al_temuri I would say it’s still panentheism. Panentheism essentially means that only god really exists and because of that creation has to be a part of it. I believe though that this is basically just what theists meant from the beginning. Sometimes I feel like people just say that god created creation out of nothing. But the monotheistic god is by definition the highest possible most perfect being so I would argue that „nothing“ would still be a thing and if it is it would be greater than god because it exists separate from him. The only way to fix this is to basically say that „nothing“ is also god. So creation didn’t come from nothing, it came from god. Now, they aren’t the same things. A part of something can’t be the whole thing can it? My leg is a part of me but it isn’t ME. I am my whole body + the mind that is created by it. The same with god.
@@Joseph_thefather I'm a Muslim with non dualistic view at the concept of Tawheed (Oneness of God) the core pillar of Islam. You're right the concept of nothingness is a man made term to define the non universe or as they also call it the timeless spaceless void. Quran which we Muslims consider to be a literal word of God never mentions nothingness but excepts mention that what is now universe was some kind joint entity where all possibilities of all space time and everything that exists was existing in a single form and then God rent it all asunder then it tells of that after the sundering it was like a hot fog or dust a cosmic soup. The point is it all imanates from God which is Single and Supreme Singularity of all Singularities and Consciousnesses. I as a Muslim obviously doesn't believe in Pantheism (Universe is God or Universe and God are same) or Panentheism (believe that we all along with the entire existence exists inside God). What I believe is that Universe is one of many reflections of the Divine Essence of God Who is eternal. But Universe is not eternal and thus have a beginning and an end. Time and space and all reality are his creation. Whenever we say creation it doesn't means to literally create with hand out of nothingness as we imagine it to be. It means giving it a separate form or a shape but the raw materials are always there with God in His very Being.
So essentially the same thing. Only one side of the argument can't get over the fact that humans aren't as oh so special as we were brought up to believe.
Which position does each Eastern Orthodox Church and Catholic Church hold? From what I feel seems like you (an Eastern Orthodox) tends to believe in panentheism, am I right?
Generally that’s true. But honestly, there are so many psalms etc. in the bible independently from which church and sect you follow specifically that you can say that Christianity itself is panentheistic. It of course depends on how you interpret the bible and what version of panentheism you believe in, but as a panentheistic Christian I believe they definitely can be compatible. This goes for the other major religions as well. Judaism, Islam, Hinduism and even Buddhism are compatible with panentheism.
In their truest essence, Islam and Christianity are the same. Or basically any Abrahamic religion. As long as one believes in either of these, they will never will be able to grasp the idea of Pantheism. The closest that they can get to, is Panantheism which shares the characteristics of God being a single entity that lives in or outside the visible universe.
@@khanthor7974 I'm not an expert but Allah is the creator of everything and his essence is incomprehensible to us and cannot be compared to anything. But at the same time He has attributes or names that paints a personal image. For example, he is the Merciful or the Wise, etc. And he is involved in creation and sees and hears everything and influences people etc and therefore I immanent, i. e. present here and now. "And We have already created man and know what his soul whispers to him, and We are closer to him than his jugular vein" ~Quran 50:16
@Johnny BeeHam no it isn't weak is not necessary but it isn't weak is what you said bro, that's what weak panentheism wich isn't a heresy Panentheism strong panentheism is heresy
I like the idea of Panentheism where the universe exists within God but I don’t believe that God has personhood. I believe that the universe exists within God but God is still this transcendent force or energy that exists
@@telosbound just because I believe God doesn’t have personhood does not mean I believe he is like a rock. To me, God exists in a higher form than Personhood. He is something along the lines of pure energy.
@@vnolan633 oops I meant god
@@slimshady4life689 so you're a pantheist
@@telosboundwithin that is the assumption that Humans are on an objectively higher level on some ladder of creation/awareness.
Perhaps less awareness is more possible for a creator?
I’m not aware of all my internals nor do I force my heart to consciously beat, yet my body grew that organ and it beats on its own.
We are all part of a collective consciousness known as God. Our ego's are our self-conscious that are put in this meat sack on the physical plane to experience emotions and expand our consciousness, then we feed all that knowledge and experience to the collective conscious when we die and our ego's join the astral as a ever living entity.
It may sound far fetched but meditate for long enough and this or something close to it is the conclusion you will find, whether you choose to believe so or not has no effect and is completely up to you I wish you all the best on your spiritual journey
Pantheism does not claim that God is impersonal, neither does Panentheism claim God is a personal being; Furthermore, Panenthiesm not only claims that All is in God, but also claims that God is in All
That depends on the definition of the two. I believe the definitions he offered are the best out there. Pantheism means everything (the universe, multiverse, existence, whatever)= god. There isn’t a distinction. If god would be personal however, then there would be a distinction, meaning we wouldn’t even be talking about pantheism but panentheism. Stephen Hawking for example said that while pantheism sounds cool it basically is unnecessary because it can’t be include a personal god. Again, that would be a form of panentheism.
@@Joseph_thefather is God in pantheisn some sort of divine energy and vibration that exist in everything, and was responsible for the big bang?
@@worstusernameeverinhistory God IS the universe in pantheism. There is no distinction. Maybe you could equate that with Devine energies but that sounds more like a form of panentheism to me. Pantheism is more philosophical than metaphysical.
@@Joseph_thefather I have a question
is God every human, every animal, every insect, every plant, every tree, every living organism, every atom, every molecule, every star, every planet, every galaxy, every material object that you see in youre house? Is God all of reality, and life, and all of space, and time, and all material manmade objects that exist, like you're phone, computer, the wall made of bricks, you're clothes, the wooden chair, you're closet..is all of that God? Is God all of that according to pantheism?
Because thats similar what God is in hinduism and sikhism
@@worstusernameeverinhistory Yeah, pantheism says that everything and anything is god. But if everything is god then you might as well call it universe or whatever. Pantheism is kind of obsolete. Thats why I am a panentheist. I believe evrything to be part of god as I believe that nothing can exists without (outside) of god, but i still believe that there is a destinction between the parts and the object, I am part of god, you are part of god, but we arent god. Do you understand?
When I took shrooms and after a year of introspection and researching science, I formulated my belief that is similar to pantheism without knowin what it was before… this is triply
daam..
Mine was after listening to Neil DeGrasse Tyson & studying Gnosticism. I then discussed this w/my friend. He said to me that sounded like Pantheism. I read into it & I realized yes, it sounded just like that.
The fact that anything exists at all is basically "God".
That is literally what happened to me .... I had to Google what it was which led me here .... soooooo glad my experience is not unique
@@David-gp3fd not really, it’s the exact opposite.
And even still, it means the god isn’t like deity, god isn’t sentient
wow thats a good one
Thank you for the definition
St Augustine has a beautiful explanation for Panentheism: can a jar hold the ocean?
This make sense to me
Pantheism makes more sense though. Love the fact that Panantheism still makes sense somehow as it's only problem is, it's convince one into believing God is a person without connecting any dots.
So spinoza was indeed a Pantheist?
Yes, kabalistic Jews are panetheists
Yup
Yup
Was there a butt on 0:03
So basically Marvel’s Electro vs HP Lovecraft’s Sleeping Idiot?
There's no existence except God.
This can be understood in 3 types.
1) If Only God exists then everything is God
This idea is Pantheism or you can expand it a bit in Panentheism too.
Other two are the two interpretations of Islamic Concept of Absolute Onenness of God (Tawhid) or Absolute Monotheism in most purest forms.
2) Only God truly exists, and this universe is just a mere illusion. A reflection of Him that wants to be known.
This Oneness/Unity of Being (Wahdatush Shahood)
3) Only God truly exists, but while everything comes from God, not everything is God itself but rather reflects the Oneness of God's essence
This is Oneness/Unity of Being (Wahdatul Wajood)
I believe the third type is the best way to describe panentheism, at least my view of it. I believe if god is the most complete, highest, all powerful, all knowing being and creator of the universe and all existence like literally every Abrahamic religion fundamentally claims him to be, then he has to be panentheistic. Sometimes people say panentheism and classical theism (or just the religions) contradict each other because they can’t see a clear distinction between god and creation but there is. God ≠ creation. That would be pantheism. And if it were true god can’t be its own entity. But if god truly is its own being than there already is a distinction between the two. Like a cell (part of creation) makes up the human body. A single cell alone can’t be called a human (god) though. You have to put a certain amount of cells together in order to create a human. Only then a human as its own separate entity can exist.
@@Joseph_thefather rather than Panentheism I would classify it as non dualistic Monotheism. Creation is not contained within God but is radiated from him like a distorted reflection emanating from God. There is this with transcendent God that we can't truly grasp idea or state of His Being but what we can know is that it transcends all limits of dimensional space time. This is how I personally see God as.
@@al_temuri I would say it’s still panentheism. Panentheism essentially means that only god really exists and because of that creation has to be a part of it. I believe though that this is basically just what theists meant from the beginning. Sometimes I feel like people just say that god created creation out of nothing. But the monotheistic god is by definition the highest possible most perfect being so I would argue that „nothing“ would still be a thing and if it is it would be greater than god because it exists separate from him. The only way to fix this is to basically say that „nothing“ is also god. So creation didn’t come from nothing, it came from god. Now, they aren’t the same things. A part of something can’t be the whole thing can it? My leg is a part of me but it isn’t ME. I am my whole body + the mind that is created by it. The same with god.
@@Joseph_thefather I'm a Muslim with non dualistic view at the concept of Tawheed (Oneness of God) the core pillar of Islam. You're right the concept of nothingness is a man made term to define the non universe or as they also call it the timeless spaceless void. Quran which we Muslims consider to be a literal word of God never mentions nothingness but excepts mention that what is now universe was some kind joint entity where all possibilities of all space time and everything that exists was existing in a single form and then God rent it all asunder then it tells of that after the sundering it was like a hot fog or dust a cosmic soup. The point is it all imanates from God which is Single and Supreme Singularity of all Singularities and Consciousnesses. I as a Muslim obviously doesn't believe in Pantheism (Universe is God or Universe and God are same) or Panentheism (believe that we all along with the entire existence exists inside God). What I believe is that Universe is one of many reflections of the Divine Essence of God Who is eternal. But Universe is not eternal and thus have a beginning and an end. Time and space and all reality are his creation. Whenever we say creation it doesn't means to literally create with hand out of nothingness as we imagine it to be. It means giving it a separate form or a shape but the raw materials are always there with God in His very Being.
@@al_temuri I appreciate this view but this is still a panentheistic view to me.
So basically 7th civilization
So essentially the same thing. Only one side of the argument can't get over the fact that humans aren't as oh so special as we were brought up to believe.
Which position does each Eastern Orthodox Church and Catholic Church hold?
From what I feel seems like you (an Eastern Orthodox) tends to believe in panentheism, am I right?
Generally that’s true. But honestly, there are so many psalms etc. in the bible independently from which church and sect you follow specifically that you can say that Christianity itself is panentheistic. It of course depends on how you interpret the bible and what version of panentheism you believe in, but as a panentheistic Christian I believe they definitely can be compatible. This goes for the other major religions as well. Judaism, Islam, Hinduism and even Buddhism are compatible with panentheism.
@@Joseph_thefather thank you, that was helpful.
In their truest essence, Islam and Christianity are the same. Or basically any Abrahamic religion. As long as one believes in either of these, they will never will be able to grasp the idea of Pantheism. The closest that they can get to, is Panantheism which shares the characteristics of God being a single entity that lives in or outside the visible universe.
Wait, are you claiming that Orthodoxy is panentheistic?
Pantheism
You have failed to distinguish panentheism from classical Christian theism
Why? If you read the bible you will see that panentheism doesn’t necessarily contradict it.
Any good example of Panentheism?
Islam
@@ssc4057 Can you explain it?
@@khanthor7974 I'm not an expert but Allah is the creator of everything and his essence is incomprehensible to us and cannot be compared to anything. But at the same time He has attributes or names that paints a personal image. For example, he is the Merciful or the Wise, etc. And he is involved in creation and sees and hears everything and influences people etc and therefore I immanent, i. e. present here and now.
"And We have already created man and know what his soul whispers to him, and We are closer to him than his jugular vein" ~Quran 50:16
@@ssc4057 Nice Review thanks a lot
Weak panentheism
Panentheism true
@Johnny BeeHam okay
Weak panentheism
@Johnny BeeHam weak panentheism bro
@Johnny BeeHam no it isn't weak is not necessary but it isn't weak is what you said bro, that's what weak panentheism wich isn't a heresy
Panentheism strong panentheism is heresy
@Johnny BeeHam Muslims
Weak Panentheism ftw
Alhamdulillah for Islam. ❤
I'm saved from all this BS.
You and your ideas do not matter, my friend. Truth does.
Why not just be a theist
@@telosbound heresy *
@@KingdomOfJerusalem9u can believe what u want nobody asked u abt ur opinion
@@KingdomOfJerusalem9 "my belief is the only true one an old book said so"
@@pamplemoo stfu anime kid
@@pamplemooyou just summed up all of modern christianity