OK, so it's a good day when you log onto TH-cam and see that FC has posted a new video. It's an even better day when you see that it's about PC'd boolits. But it is a truly wonderful day when you see that the video has one of my all time favorite revolvers: The Model 29. The S&W Model 29. the Colt Python, and the Ruger Black Hawk are my all time favorite wheel guns. But I digress... Thanks for the video, FC, I have been wanting to try out PC'ing boolits for a while now. Think I might run down to HF today and grab some powder as well as an ES PC spray gun.
floorpizza - That HF spray gun has mixed reviews, but I'm sure you will have that singing once the quirks are understood. ..The WalMart B & D toaster oven is also a great oven for PC. Get the Red and Yellow first as those are the best HF powders. Have a great day, FC
Even though I'm not part of the Club,, My Coffee cup is still hanging on the wall over at your place Steve. Maggie sure is a sweetie. She commands respect for her Beauty as everyone is silent when she is brought into the room. Nice, One day soon I will get a Mod-29, I just have to wait my turn. It's always a Joy to see such workmanship and quality. Dave.
That is a damn good revolver. I collect Ruger Revolvers. Always appreciated the tight tolerances they had with the Black Hawk, Red Hawk, and Security Six as well as the Colt Trooper and the Colt Snake models, and Dan Wesson's revolvers. That is one of many characteristics that put Ruger, Dan Wesson, & Colt quality far above S&W capabilites. S&W were popular among casuals basically because of hollywood movies.
I occasionally (not always) still get a very little leading with PC bullets, but not nearly what I used to get with lubed cast bullets. I would call the amount of leading I get now "normal" and to be expected from shooting a full box of 50. Regardless, it is no problem to clean. I attribute my vastly reduced leading to: Bullet diameter now sized to chamber throat - not .001" over bore. Coated bullets. Bullet hardness reduced (in my case) to 13 bhn.
Just shot 153 grain NOE powder coated bullets with 19 grains of CFEBLK, ( H&R single shot in 300 blackout ) grouped a 3 shot 1/4 in. group at 30 yards had no leading, and barrel cleaned with 2 wet patches! Used bore scope to check. Have not crony yet, but advertised velocity is 1900 fps.
Kai Blackout - That's good work..!! That sounds like a little over an inch performance at 100 yds when you take all the chaos stuff thrown in at that distance. Thanks for reporting this... Best Regards, FC
I've been pc all my lc bullets for 300 blackout,9mm,40 s&w,.327 federal mag,32h&r mag, 32 s&w and I've noticed zero fouling or powder in the barrels. I use columbia powers mostly with a few exceptions.
I'm an experienced handloader for over 10 years but I always shied away from lead bullets and casting my own bullets because of leading in the barrel. I am a telephone lineman so I have access to a Unlimited Supply of pure lead because we're removing the old lead telephone cable and replacing it with fiber optic. I've been anxious to try casting my own bullets and Hi-Tech coating them. I am choosing the high-tech coating just so I don't have to invest in a Lube Sizer I would just buy the Sizer instead ...what books would you recommend for a person new to Casting to read to understand lead bullets better. oh and thank you for the very informative video that you were providing to the TH-cam/gun Community keep up the good work.
emjartan45acp buy a copy of Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. A wealth of info there that you can trust. Not that I'm denigrating Mr. Fortune Cookie, mind you.
Hey FC, you may be able to see down the barrel a little better if you use a clean piece of white paper to bounce light up the barrel. I know it works for me irl, but I've never tried it in a video recording. Thanks for all the great content!
my experience equals this with my pc boolits. I've shot 200ish pc boolits in one sitting out of my glock factory barrel and not a single streak of lead fowling.
Actually it is correct for lead cast, most casters refer to jacketed as bullets(and other such nomenclature that wouldn't be considered PG rated) and cast as Boolets, its a way for those of us who use both to differentiate the two, kinda like the way you shortened your term of endearment to differentiate those you feel are unintelligent from those with special needs.
well considering that I cast, reload, and shoot well over 6,000rds a year and have been doing so in a competitive manor for 7 years now would probably qualify me as someone with a little bit of experience on the subject. yes I am a regular on the cb forum, I learned quite a bit from there when I started casting and continue to learn and share knowledge on there today.
He's not the only person by any means............ I've been naming my guns I like for years. Goes way back, at least as far as Davy Crockett naming his rifle "Ol' Betsy". It's when they can determine the sex of their guns that concerns me.................!
Buck Barnes - Thanks for chiming in, Buck - Have a great day, FC Sorry for the delay in reply - when Google does not post comments in my inbox, I'll not see them for months
I've seen leading, even bad leading, in milsurp rifles with powder coated bullets. I have been trying to investigate as to what is causing this. My worst case is in 8x56R cartridge in military surplus M95 carbines. These have an "on paper" bore diameter of .329, but upon slugging a half dozen examples I find that the average is more like .331 and some as high as .3325. I think casting a .330 bullet and trying to make up for the diameter difference with powder coat just isn't working, and it is causing leading. I'm using the Lee .329 mold and I will NEVER understand why Lee chose to make the mold and sizer to the exact "book" diameter on those two products. It's just bad.... I've tried beagling the mold and I opened up my sizing die to .332 but I'm still having issues. Also, with rough barrels on milsurp rifles.....where milsurp corrosive ammo was shot and left rough pitting in the bore, this seems to be enough to strip the powder coating even on properly fitting bullets and cause leading. I have seen this in 8mm Mauser as well as 7.62x54R. I think you can rely on the powder coat to make up some of the diameter on a bullet that is slightly small for the bore ONLY when you have a nice, smooth bore. And I suspect even with properly fitted powder coated bullets, you're going to get leading on any pitted/rough bore eventually. Aaaaaaaand that's my ramble.
Toolness1 - Not rambling at all -- it's good stuff. Rough bores are the kicker. If the bore is rough enough (one of my Ruger Blackhawks has a rough bore), leading will happen no matter what cast bullet is fired small or large, powder coated or not. In cases like that, shooting jacketed bullets is the answer. If lead bullets are shot in such a barrel, the leading will soon degrade accuracy and functioning. Lead bullets can only do so much, reason jacketed bullets were developed anyway - long ago. Good shootin' to ya, FC
The advertised o.d. is based on a particular lead alloy. You can experiment with different mixes or ever thought about paper patching your undersized bullets?
What would cause excessive fouling in milsurplus barreles is the amount of tooling marks in those barrels. They are extremely ruff because they were made in a hurry with little attention or care about fouling. Unlike barreles made today that are for factory hunting rifles that are mostly button pulled which is a method that makes less maching marks. Or custom match barreles which some are button pulled while other manufactures like Brux, Hawk Hill and Kreiger do single point cut rifling and hand lapp them with a lapp on the end of a cleaning rod and fine grit lapping compound so they can finish out to the appropriate groove and land diameter while making it almost perfectly polished in which after a 15 shot break in regiment simply do not foul like other barrels especially military surplus barrels do. Many gunsmiths including my self have lapped several barreles for customers on older factory hunting rifles or military rifles like 03a3's and k98 mausers by taking a bore brush that is undersized by one caliber of the bore and starting it into the rifling, then pouring melted lead in the barrel and pushing the brush on the end of the rod up through and out the muzzle. The then solid piece of leas formed around the undersized brush is your lapp you just made for that barrel in which you will put fine grit lapping compound on and stroke back and fourth for a couple hours. Stopping every hour to slug the bore and measure the lead slug to make sure you are not going bigger diameter than the caliber bullet ment for the barrel
With powder coating is their any danger of the polishing agents in the powder to prematurely wear on the barrel??? Have you or anyone out there heard of this happening??? I would like to hear any comments. I powder coat for handgun and rifle.
Stormin Normans GUNWORKS Yes,PC is great especially if the bullets are under sized. I had some .45-70 bullets come out of the mould at .455 and I powdercoated them up to .459. They shot very well,very accurate.
What was the hardness of the lead coated? Pure wheel weight lead from the local tire shop that was powder coated? Or some type of commercial hardened lead like Lyman?
DP - Easy - I load all my standard velocity and cowboy load cast bullets at BHN 10-12 (use pure range scrap). These were not used in this video. My +P and light magnums are BHN 15 Lyman #2 type alloy (range scrap + Linotype +/or SuperHard mixed according to RotoMetals formula or the Cast Boolits Lead Alloy Calculator spreadsheet). This was what was used in this video. For full magnums, I use BHN 18. Good shootin' to ya, FC Steve
Have you ever tried doing your own copper plating? I knew someone that did nickle plating & he said copper is the same process. It's not a complicated process. It is a little more equipment needed to do it & it would cost more than powder coating to get started but once you have the equipment, it's cheap & requires less hands on time than powder coating. Anyways, I was just wondering how plating would stack up against powder coating. They are both easy ways to make your own jacket for cast projectiles.
Yes, you would need copper sulfate. That is a common herbicide. I would suspect you could find it at most hardware stores in the form of stump killers or root killers for much less than a chemical supply place but I would double check all the chemicals to be on the safe side. The expense probably depends on where you source it but yea, you do have the disposal/storage issue. I didn't think about disposal but yea, you could end up in a position where it costs you more to dispose of it properly than it cost you to buy it.
shananagans5 - Yes, I have done some copper plating in my time, but the work involved and the chemicals and equipment required just provided discouragement. Plus, big production is beyond the range of home systems. Best to ya, FC Steve
ArcanusLibero - And thank you for taking the time to post...the delay in reply was because Google did not put your comment in my inbox...why this happens is a mystery as other comments get there... Best to ya, FC
I’m getting severe leading. Powder coated at .362, cylinders are .362, and bore is probably .357. Could that big of a squeeze be causing it or should I play with a higher bhn or maybe a thicker powder coat as it was my first time and kinda thin coat. All light load wadcutters cast from probably pure lead. Thanks for the videos as always!
You don't mention what velocity you are shooting. Most Americans like us shoot bullets that are too hard. A bullet has to obturate to prevent leading. Try a softer bhn, especially if the majority of the leading is at the forcing cone area. You bullet diameter sounds "spot-on" since it is correctly based on the chamber throat diameter. A lot of people still go by .001" over bore diameter, which is old science in the case of lead bullets............
your starting to change my mind . I have always said, no lead in my barrel! now I feel inclined to study powder coating... are there other ways to use cast bullets and avoid the dreaded lead fouling?
tjmooremusic When the bullet is cast it is usually oversized from the mold. So you size it down to a few thousandths of an inch larger than your bore diameter by running it through a die with lubricant (like Alox). If you buy commercial cast bullets they should already be sized and ready to load. Be sure to slug your barrel (run a piece of lead through it) so you know what size your bore is. For example, 9mm should be .355 but is often .357 or larger. So a .358 or .359 cast bullet would be the one you should load.
Savio Strawn thanks for the info. I am new to reloading still and have not used cast lead bullets. I have used only jacketed for concern of leading but that runs into alot more money.
tjmooremusic - Buying cast bullets or plated bullets is a great alternative to shooting jacketed bullets - lowers cost of bullet by 40-50%. As for powder coated bullets, you can buy them as well from most commercial cast bullet makers. If you find that you like economy and the way plain cast or PC perform, you can always get into casting and PCing your own cast bullets. Savio Strawn has given you some quick tips on sizing. Lee gives you an alternative variant on that - just use cast bullets that are .001" bigger than the diameter of jacketed bullets commonly used for that caliber. That usually puts you on the correct size to be used, but not always...there are the renegade barrels out there. Best to ya, FC
Powder fouling on the cylinder face, is that a good job for ed's red ? If so, do you just let it sit on the cylinder for a while and then wire brush it off ?
Nick J - Thanks for the great question. Sorry to say that I have let cylinders just sit overnight in Ed's Red - no soaking in any of our common solvents will remove those blast marks. Only rubbing with metal polish or lead removal cloth does the job - on stainless, it's a slam dunk...but on blue guns, we have to take care to not rub all the bluing off...Best to rub our blue guns until the cylinder face is acceptable and not go for the 100% removal. Have a great day, FC
It may have been special ordered with that crown. I believe that if you order a pistol you can have Ruger cut an 11 degree recessed target crown. That crown comes on their GP100 Match Champion.
vajoke1 - Hello to you and Jake Outdoors..!! That was the crown that came on the gun straight from the gun store...Whatever it is, I like it..!! And Clyde says take me as I am cause that's just the way it is...Best to ya, FC
monsterman27 - Sorry for the delay in reply - when Google does not post comments in my inbox, I'll not see them for months...The fiber / overpowder / wad columns are listed in the Lyman Shotshell Handbook for the Lyman Foster slugs intended for bare bore shooting... these slugs are bigger than the slugs designed for placement in trap wads like the Lee slugs and the Lyman 525 slug. But even the Lyman Fosters aren't like factory Fosters...factory Foster slugs have an enlarged skirt that rubs the barrel as the rest of the slug rides the barrel - gives them the accuracy we note, and we cannot get those slugs. And we can't cast those either with any available molds. And factory Fosters have post wads designed just for those slugs to get that performance and accuracy. If our jerryrigged slug / trap wads shoot well, it is the exception and not the rule. Great question..!! Best to ya, FC
I use plastic wads for my 1 ounce 12 gauge slug loads without any problems. The plastic left over in a barrel is due to the burning rate of the powder melting the plastic, not the wad material. I use IMR 700 X powder without any complications for that particular load, with it cycling in semi-auto 12 gauge shotguns of different manufacturers. I also use 410 plastic wads in my 45 acp snake shot loads with either 5.5 gr of 700X or 6 gr of 231 powder without any plastic fouling or leftover remnants in any barrel of multiple pistols. These shot-shell pistol loads are fully cycled with the action, not single shot loads as some of the commercial snake-shot rounds that fail to cycle the slide. Slower burning powders melt plastic before it exits the barrel.
TRprepper - And clean up is easy after shooting PC bullets...With plain cast bullets, clean up may be just a bit more work, but I would still consider that needed gun cleanup to be routine. When leading occurs, cleanup is really work - that is what we want to avoid...and PC has given me that...now, that having been said, I'm still more likely to shoot jacketed bullets in my full power bottleneck case rifles...they simply perform superbly, but also in the terminal ballistic aspects of the rounds. Best to ya, FC
UnstoppableNick69 - Congrats on your 300 round shooting sessions..!! I can't say that I've ever gotten anything like that on my forcing cones, but I haven't done the 300 round shooting session in a while now. But I have surely gotten some leading in the barrel just past the forcing cone.. How much of that is antimony is anybody's guess, but I just call it leading -.nothing that some routine cleaning would not take care of though. But with PC bullets, that no longer happens. Best to ya, FC
Short sessions like 100 rounds are flawless. But extended stays at the range WITHOUT cleaning the gun show the minor issue mentioned above. All the best and keep'em videos coming.
UnstoppableNick69 - Ha, UnstoppableNick69 - I like your style..."Short session" defined as 100 rounds :). Last weekend, these two young men came to the range to shoot their autopistols. They each shot twenty rounds or so during one target change, then packed up their guns and left. Not a good return on their range fees for sure. Continued good shootin' sessions to ya..!! FC
Oh I know those type of guys. And believe it or not they have thousands of posts on various gun forums. I have only three speed loaders so those comes ready loaded and 18 rounds will go in a less than a minute to warm up the gun and my senses. Short sessions are great when time is not enough for a full day, but I enjoy 5-6 hours sessions at the range. Shoot, have lunch, socialize with other fellow shooters then shoot till I have no ammo. It is good for writing down observations, test results, honing skills and it is also therapeutic for getting rid of stress and recharging batteries. Sometimes I even help the range guys with minor chores and in exchange they let me have a bucket of range scrap. Life can't be better than that. Please keep making videos. You gave me so many ideas and things to try out. God bless.
Technically, yes. But the issue there isn't the bullets, it's the brass. Especially if we are talking about 40 S&W. The unsupported chamber leaves a bulge "smile" and the loose chamber diameter causes the entire case to bulge some as well. If the brass weakens, work hardens as it is sized multiple times, and the weak area aligns with the unsupported area of the chamber (the feed ramp), you can have a KABOOM. There's plenty of evidence of this. I got an aftermarket barrel after I had a badly split case that I know for sure was only reloaded one time. When you can get a Lone Wolf barrel for around 100 bucks, I think it is worth your safety and peace of mind to do what it takes for you to be able to buy one. Even if you have to hold off on shooting reloads until you can afford it. I know this issue isn't quite as bad in 9mm or 45, I am speaking about my research and experience with a Glock 22 in .40 cal.
Great video and thank you for that. If there is a next time, could you pull a patch through and show us the patch? What about autoloading rifles? Gas ports could be an issue.
C K - Within reason, hardness is no longer an issue...but if bullets are too soft, and shot at too high a velocity - the PC will take care of any leading problems, but the bullets can still strip off the rifling and shoot poorly. This strip off was what caused the armies of the world to go to jacketed bullets when smokeless powder outstripped the performance capabilities of cast bullets. We can stretch the usefulness of cast bullets a bit more today, but there is still a limit. Best to ya, FC
FortuneCookie45LC thanks for the reply. I'm just getting into powder coating for rifle bullets and looking forward to testing how hard I can push them before I have to elbow grease the lead out of the bores.
C K - The only reason you don't see me powder coating my 223 bullets is that I bought a lifetime supply Sierra FMJs and MKs back in my high power shooting days...With all those bullets, no need to cast 223. And I avoid any leading issues with my 223s that way... Best to ya, FC
I'm casting for an old mosin nagant rifle. The barrel has some wear on it and needs larger than .311 bullets. I'm casting and powder coating sized to .314.
Thompson Jerry - The 45 ACP in a 45 Colt/45 ACP convertible revolver is the same as shooting 44 Russian vs 44Spl/44Mag or shooting 45 Schofield / 45ACP in a 45 Colt. The shorter case is more efficient in its velocity range than the bigger case...Plus the 45 ACP is very capable in its own right...(as we all know). Sure, that would make a great video...I'm already doing the shorter case thing now with the 45 Schofield - the 45 ACP would be a short Schofield. Have a great day, FC
Mr. Steve-- I need your help. As you know I am trying to get a better hold on BHN for lead cast powder coated rifle bullets. I though if I could get an accurate reading for BHN on my ingots I could "Standardize" my lead casting. So I bought a very nice lead tester. It's easy to use-- but I think it maybe a pile of junk. I just tested a Roto metals Iino type ingot several times and it is giving me a reading of BHN 17. I also tested my lyman number # 2 ingots and they gave a reading of BHN 11. Do you think I could send you the tester and see what you think about it ? Is it a ZERO or is it a Hero ? I would really like your opinion on it and the only way to do that is to send you the tester. I hope I am not putting any pressure on you to do it. But It would help-- Thank you for considering it. VE
Vengenace Early - Thanks for the comment / question, Vengenace. Have you tried the tech support for your instrument? You could use the proportionation compensation for the apparent shift in the hardness readings. So we do know that linotype is BHN 22 - the reading you are getting at 17 would then require a compensation factor of 1.294 so then the 11 reading on Lyman #2 would wind up at BHN 14 or BHN 15-16 once you water quench - not bad. All hardness testing is done the same way - a known is pressed into the lead and then the interpretation is done. My thumbnail works, but others like to use a little spring ball and then magnify the indent. Or take a reading off a scale. Calibration of instruments is always a concern - even thumbnails can vary in hardness depending on how much gelatin we consume... If you wish to send me the tester to have a look, I'd be glad to work with it, but that compensation factor will be right there in the mix - you might want to work with it more with that consideration - you might find you like the rascal... Even if I like your tester, my thumbnail is still going to be what I use for relative hardness factors of my lead. I use a drop address of FortuneCookie45LC; C/O Trilliant Studios; 130 Linden Street; Oakland CA 94536 Best to ya, FC Steve
Thanks FC-- I have worked with it for sometime-You calibrate it by moving the dial to zero it out. . The ammo channel "Measuring lead hardness - Bullet casting and reloading" is the exact type of tester I am using. I wanted to standardize testing to exact BHN so I could repeat my casting -- which is not a factor in handgun reloading as much as rifle. But I am trying to get a good powder coated rifle bullet. Thanks for letting me send it to you. VE Jeff. PS I am sending Elvis Ammo some of my bullets to test as well.
Wow, so many shooters out there that act like lead in the bore is as bad as a diagnosis of terminal cancer. Here's 2 ways to quickly and easily remove lead. Mix a half and half mixture of distilled white vinegar and common hydrogen peroxide. About a shot glass worth will do. Plug your barrel with an old ear plug stand your roscoe upright ( or remove barrel for auto loaders) fill it with this liquid and let stand about 10 minutes. Dump it out, rinse with water and run a tight fitting patch through it. If any traces of lead remain, a couple strokes with a bore brush should finish the clean up. 2. Buy some copper gauze, cut a strip 1/2 in wide by a few inches long. Wrap this around a bore brush. You want a tight fit. About 10 passes with this DRY will leave you with a clean bore. I can shoot 500 rounds through either revolver or auto and bore clean up is the quickest part of cleaning afterwards.
John Petty - I know a load is clean enough if I shoot 200 rounds of cast ammo and the accuracy is as good with the last shot as the first - I know that barrel cleaning will be as easy as you report (and 500 rounds is even better). A clean shooting cast load is that because of bullet fit to gun, bullet hardness commensurate with our load pressure and velocity, lube used (PC or not) and our gun set up including quality of the barrel. If we have that, we have a clean shooting load and any mixture or method we use to clean will do the job well for us - I call that light fouling or leading. But of course I thank you for sharing your mixture and copper mesh trick - that's good to know. Moderate leading occurs when there are streaks of lead that do not obliterate the rifling - and heavy leading causes bullet keyholing because the rifling is being obliterated. Moderate and heavy leading occur when the above criteria for clean shooting ammo/gun are not in place. And that is the leading that shooters hate to see. Continued good shootin' to ya, FC Steve
FortuneCookie45LC I remember a time when my friend who was new to reloading rolled up some soft swaged semi wad cutters in .357 cases and used a magnum type charge. About 2 cylinders of those and he had a smooth bore revolver! Best to ya.
i concur ... lead in the barrel is no big deal at all . I use ChoreBoy wrapped around a worn brush and pull it through a couple times. waala . Its the ones who keep scrubbing and scrubbing with Solvent and never get it out that worry :) Theyd never be a cowboy action shooter if they get freaked out by a little lead in the barrel
Nice glass. But I thought the topic is powder coated bullets prevent...... I mean thank you but no. I can't take you serious. Why not only put the topic out, Tactical insane Revolvers. But about lead or coating I'll think you missed completely the topic. Me personally am not so much a fan of overloaded Revolvers.
OK, so it's a good day when you log onto TH-cam and see that FC has posted a new video. It's an even better day when you see that it's about PC'd boolits. But it is a truly wonderful day when you see that the video has one of my all time favorite revolvers: The Model 29. The S&W Model 29. the Colt Python, and the Ruger Black Hawk are my all time favorite wheel guns. But I digress... Thanks for the video, FC, I have been wanting to try out PC'ing boolits for a while now. Think I might run down to HF today and grab some powder as well as an ES PC spray gun.
floorpizza - That HF spray gun has mixed reviews, but I'm sure you will have that singing once the quirks are understood. ..The WalMart B & D toaster oven is also a great oven for PC. Get the Red and Yellow first as those are the best HF powders. Have a great day, FC
Even though I'm not part of the Club,, My Coffee cup is still hanging on the wall over at your place Steve. Maggie sure is a sweetie. She commands respect for her Beauty as everyone is silent when she is brought into the room. Nice, One day soon I will get a Mod-29, I just have to wait my turn. It's always a Joy to see such workmanship and quality. Dave.
That is a damn good revolver. I collect Ruger Revolvers. Always appreciated the tight tolerances they had with the Black Hawk, Red Hawk, and Security Six as well as the Colt Trooper and the Colt Snake models, and Dan Wesson's revolvers. That is one of many characteristics that put Ruger, Dan Wesson, & Colt quality far above S&W capabilites. S&W were popular among casuals basically because of hollywood movies.
I occasionally (not always) still get a very little leading with PC bullets, but not nearly what I used to get with lubed cast bullets. I would call the amount of leading I get now "normal" and to be expected from shooting a full box of 50. Regardless, it is no problem to clean.
I attribute my vastly reduced leading to:
Bullet diameter now sized to chamber throat - not .001" over bore.
Coated bullets.
Bullet hardness reduced (in my case) to 13 bhn.
Just shot 153 grain NOE powder coated bullets with 19 grains of CFEBLK, ( H&R single shot in 300 blackout ) grouped a 3 shot 1/4 in. group at 30 yards had no leading, and barrel cleaned with 2 wet patches! Used bore scope to check. Have not crony yet, but advertised velocity is 1900 fps.
Kai Blackout - That's good work..!! That sounds like a little over an inch performance at 100 yds when you take all the chaos stuff thrown in at that distance. Thanks for reporting this... Best Regards, FC
I've been pc all my lc bullets for 300 blackout,9mm,40 s&w,.327 federal mag,32h&r mag, 32 s&w and I've noticed zero fouling or powder in the barrels. I use columbia powers mostly with a few exceptions.
I'm an experienced handloader for over 10 years but I always shied away from lead bullets and casting my own bullets because of leading in the barrel. I am a telephone lineman so I have access to a Unlimited Supply of pure lead because we're removing the old lead telephone cable and replacing it with fiber optic. I've been anxious to try casting my own bullets and Hi-Tech coating them. I am choosing the high-tech coating just so I don't have to invest in a Lube Sizer I would just buy the Sizer instead ...what books would you recommend for a person new to Casting to read to understand lead bullets better. oh and thank you for the very informative video that you were providing to the TH-cam/gun Community keep up the good work.
emjartan45acp buy a copy of Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. A wealth of info there that you can trust. Not that I'm denigrating Mr. Fortune Cookie, mind you.
Hey FC, you may be able to see down the barrel a little better if you use a clean piece of white paper to bounce light up the barrel. I know it works for me irl, but I've never tried it in a video recording. Thanks for all the great content!
Yeah those bright led's are too powerful need to get one that throws a difused beam, which are harder to find.
@FortuneCookie, you know what? You're awesome.
my experience equals this with my pc boolits. I've shot 200ish pc boolits in one sitting out of my glock factory barrel and not a single streak of lead fowling.
can you spell bullets????? tard
Actually it is correct for lead cast, most casters refer to jacketed as bullets(and other such nomenclature that wouldn't be considered PG rated) and cast as Boolets, its a way for those of us who use both to differentiate the two, kinda like the way you shortened your term of endearment to differentiate those you feel are unintelligent from those with special needs.
CraigslistQuickPicker boolits is what there called on the cast bullets forum. if anything its a sign someone is more educated on the subject.
Educated ! I think not, they are Projectiles.
well considering that I cast, reload, and shoot well over 6,000rds a year and have been doing so in a competitive manor for 7 years now would probably qualify me as someone with a little bit of experience on the subject. yes I am a regular on the cb forum, I learned quite a bit from there when I started casting and continue to learn and share knowledge on there today.
You are the first person I hear has names for his guns 😁 hey that's your thing go right ahead 🤙
He's not the only person by any means............ I've been naming my guns I like for years. Goes way back, at least as far as Davy Crockett naming his rifle "Ol' Betsy". It's when they can determine the sex of their guns that concerns me.................!
That is really impressive. Wipe it down and put it a way!
SomeGuyInSandy - Wipe it down, swab it out with a bore snake and it really is good to go... Best to ya, FC
Great video as always !
This is what I have found as well, no leading.
Buck Barnes - Thanks for chiming in, Buck - Have a great day, FC Sorry for the delay in reply - when Google does not post comments in my inbox, I'll not see them for months
If you fire a few copper or brass coated bullets in after the fouling will it clean them up?
Those are some nice pistols man.
I've seen leading, even bad leading, in milsurp rifles with powder coated bullets. I have been trying to investigate as to what is causing this. My worst case is in 8x56R cartridge in military surplus M95 carbines. These have an "on paper" bore diameter of .329, but upon slugging a half dozen examples I find that the average is more like .331 and some as high as .3325. I think casting a .330 bullet and trying to make up for the diameter difference with powder coat just isn't working, and it is causing leading. I'm using the Lee .329 mold and I will NEVER understand why Lee chose to make the mold and sizer to the exact "book" diameter on those two products. It's just bad.... I've tried beagling the mold and I opened up my sizing die to .332 but I'm still having issues. Also, with rough barrels on milsurp rifles.....where milsurp corrosive ammo was shot and left rough pitting in the bore, this seems to be enough to strip the powder coating even on properly fitting bullets and cause leading. I have seen this in 8mm Mauser as well as 7.62x54R. I think you can rely on the powder coat to make up some of the diameter on a bullet that is slightly small for the bore ONLY when you have a nice, smooth bore. And I suspect even with properly fitted powder coated bullets, you're going to get leading on any pitted/rough bore eventually. Aaaaaaaand that's my ramble.
Toolness1 - Not rambling at all -- it's good stuff. Rough bores are the kicker. If the bore is rough enough (one of my Ruger Blackhawks has a rough bore), leading will happen no matter what cast bullet is fired small or large, powder coated or not. In cases like that, shooting jacketed bullets is the answer. If lead bullets are shot in such a barrel, the leading will soon degrade accuracy and functioning. Lead bullets can only do so much, reason jacketed bullets were developed anyway - long ago. Good shootin' to ya, FC
The advertised o.d. is based on a particular lead alloy. You can experiment with different mixes or ever thought about paper patching your undersized bullets?
What would cause excessive fouling in milsurplus barreles is the amount of tooling marks in those barrels. They are extremely ruff because they were made in a hurry with little attention or care about fouling. Unlike barreles made today that are for factory hunting rifles that are mostly button pulled which is a method that makes less maching marks. Or custom match barreles which some are button pulled while other manufactures like Brux, Hawk Hill and Kreiger do single point cut rifling and hand lapp them with a lapp on the end of a cleaning rod and fine grit lapping compound so they can finish out to the appropriate groove and land diameter while making it almost perfectly polished in which after a 15 shot break in regiment simply do not foul like other barrels especially military surplus barrels do. Many gunsmiths including my self have lapped several barreles for customers on older factory hunting rifles or military rifles like 03a3's and k98 mausers by taking a bore brush that is undersized by one caliber of the bore and starting it into the rifling, then pouring melted lead in the barrel and pushing the brush on the end of the rod up through and out the muzzle. The then solid piece of leas formed around the undersized brush is your lapp you just made for that barrel in which you will put fine grit lapping compound on and stroke back and fourth for a couple hours. Stopping every hour to slug the bore and measure the lead slug to make sure you are not going bigger diameter than the caliber bullet ment for the barrel
With powder coating is their any danger of the polishing agents in the powder to prematurely wear on the barrel??? Have you or anyone out there heard of this happening??? I would like to hear any comments. I powder coat for handgun and rifle.
Can you powdercoat leadfree ammo such as Solid Copper or Solid Brass?
Stormin Normans GUNWORKS Yes,PC is great especially if the bullets are under sized.
I had some .45-70 bullets come out of the mould at .455 and I powdercoated them up to .459.
They shot very well,very accurate.
What was the hardness of the lead coated? Pure wheel weight lead from the local tire shop that was powder coated? Or some type of commercial hardened lead like Lyman?
DP - Easy - I load all my standard velocity and cowboy load cast bullets at BHN 10-12 (use pure range scrap). These were not used in this video. My +P and light magnums are BHN 15 Lyman #2 type alloy (range scrap + Linotype +/or SuperHard mixed according to RotoMetals formula or the Cast Boolits Lead Alloy Calculator spreadsheet). This was what was used in this video. For full magnums, I use BHN 18. Good shootin' to ya, FC Steve
Have you ever tried doing your own copper plating? I knew someone that did nickle plating & he said copper is the same process. It's not a complicated process. It is a little more equipment needed to do it & it would cost more than powder coating to get started but once you have the equipment, it's cheap & requires less hands on time than powder coating. Anyways, I was just wondering how plating would stack up against powder coating. They are both easy ways to make your own jacket for cast projectiles.
I have heard that copper plating requires very toxic chemicals which are not easily acquired of disposed of when exhausted.
Yes, you would need copper sulfate. That is a common herbicide. I would suspect you could find it at most hardware stores in the form of stump killers or root killers for much less than a chemical supply place but I would double check all the chemicals to be on the safe side. The expense probably depends on where you source it but yea, you do have the disposal/storage issue. I didn't think about disposal but yea, you could end up in a position where it costs you more to dispose of it properly than it cost you to buy it.
shananagans5 - Yes, I have done some copper plating in my time, but the work involved and the chemicals and equipment required just provided discouragement. Plus, big production is beyond the range of home systems. Best to ya, FC Steve
Great results. Thanks for sharing.
ArcanusLibero - And thank you for taking the time to post...the delay in reply was because Google did not put your comment in my inbox...why this happens is a mystery as other comments get there... Best to ya, FC
Thanks. I have the same problem with channel.
I’m getting severe leading. Powder coated at .362, cylinders are .362, and bore is probably .357. Could that big of a squeeze be causing it or should I play with a higher bhn or maybe a thicker powder coat as it was my first time and kinda thin coat. All light load wadcutters cast from probably pure lead. Thanks for the videos as always!
You don't mention what velocity you are shooting. Most Americans like us shoot bullets that are too hard. A bullet has to obturate to prevent leading. Try a softer bhn, especially if the majority of the leading is at the forcing cone area. You bullet diameter sounds "spot-on" since it is correctly based on the chamber throat diameter. A lot of people still go by .001" over bore diameter, which is old science in the case of lead bullets............
your starting to change my mind .
I have always said, no lead in my barrel! now I feel inclined to study powder coating...
are there other ways to use cast bullets and avoid the dreaded lead fouling?
Properly sized and lubed bullets are unlikely to lead a barrel even without powder coating
Sized?
I would assume that the cast bullets shown in Lymans reloading manual would be the proper diameter.
tjmooremusic When the bullet is cast it is usually oversized from the mold. So you size it down to a few thousandths of an inch larger than your bore diameter by running it through a die with lubricant (like Alox). If you buy commercial cast bullets they should already be sized and ready to load. Be sure to slug your barrel (run a piece of lead through it) so you know what size your bore is. For example, 9mm should be .355 but is often .357 or larger. So a .358 or .359 cast bullet would be the one you should load.
Savio Strawn
thanks for the info. I am new to reloading still and have not used cast lead bullets. I have used only jacketed for concern of leading but that runs into alot more money.
tjmooremusic - Buying cast bullets or plated bullets is a great alternative to shooting jacketed bullets - lowers cost of bullet by 40-50%. As for powder coated bullets, you can buy them as well from most commercial cast bullet makers. If you find that you like economy and the way plain cast or PC perform, you can always get into casting and PCing your own cast bullets. Savio Strawn has given you some quick tips on sizing. Lee gives you an alternative variant on that - just use cast bullets that are .001" bigger than the diameter of jacketed bullets commonly used for that caliber. That usually puts you on the correct size to be used, but not always...there are the renegade barrels out there. Best to ya, FC
Powder fouling on the cylinder face, is that a good job for ed's red ? If so, do you just let it sit on the cylinder for a while and then wire brush it off ?
Nick J - Thanks for the great question. Sorry to say that I have let cylinders just sit overnight in Ed's Red - no soaking in any of our common solvents will remove those blast marks. Only rubbing with metal polish or lead removal cloth does the job - on stainless, it's a slam dunk...but on blue guns, we have to take care to not rub all the bluing off...Best to rub our blue guns until the cylinder face is acceptable and not go for the 100% removal. Have a great day, FC
Is that the factory crown on the Ruger Super Red Hawk? I don't recognize that crown.
It may have been special ordered with that crown. I believe that if you order a pistol you can have Ruger cut an 11 degree recessed target crown. That crown comes on their GP100 Match Champion.
vajoke1 - Hello to you and Jake Outdoors..!! That was the crown that came on the gun straight from the gun store...Whatever it is, I like it..!! And Clyde says take me as I am cause that's just the way it is...Best to ya, FC
vajake1 yes mine purchased 2 years ago new has that crown also, i love it
FC45LC, have you ever tried using filler wads/cards instead of plastic wads for slugs? Isnt this what factory lead slugs have in them anyway?
monsterman27 - Sorry for the delay in reply - when Google does not post comments in my inbox, I'll not see them for months...The fiber / overpowder / wad columns are listed in the Lyman Shotshell Handbook for the Lyman Foster slugs intended for bare bore shooting... these slugs are bigger than the slugs designed for placement in trap wads like the Lee slugs and the Lyman 525 slug. But even the Lyman Fosters aren't like factory Fosters...factory Foster slugs have an enlarged skirt that rubs the barrel as the rest of the slug rides the barrel - gives them the accuracy we note, and we cannot get those slugs. And we can't cast those either with any available molds. And factory Fosters have post wads designed just for those slugs to get that performance and accuracy. If our jerryrigged slug / trap wads shoot well, it is the exception and not the rule. Great question..!! Best to ya, FC
I use plastic wads for my 1 ounce 12 gauge slug loads without any problems. The plastic left over in a barrel is due to the burning rate of the powder melting the plastic, not the wad material. I use IMR 700 X powder without any complications for that particular load, with it cycling in semi-auto 12 gauge shotguns of different manufacturers. I also use 410 plastic wads in my 45 acp snake shot loads with either 5.5 gr of 700X or 6 gr of 231 powder without any plastic fouling or leftover remnants in any barrel of multiple pistols. These shot-shell pistol loads are fully cycled with the action, not single shot loads as some of the commercial snake-shot rounds that fail to cycle the slide. Slower burning powders melt plastic before it exits the barrel.
So far I haven't seen any leading with the powder coated bullets.
TRprepper - And clean up is easy after shooting PC bullets...With plain cast bullets, clean up may be just a bit more work, but I would still consider that needed gun cleanup to be routine. When leading occurs, cleanup is really work - that is what we want to avoid...and PC has given me that...now, that having been said, I'm still more likely to shoot jacketed bullets in my full power bottleneck case rifles...they simply perform superbly, but also in the terminal ballistic aspects of the rounds. Best to ya, FC
Any traces of antimony deposits on the barrel forcing cone? I ask as I get this symptom after shooting 300ish coated bullets with my GP-100.
UnstoppableNick69 - Congrats on your 300 round shooting sessions..!! I can't say that I've ever gotten anything like that on my forcing cones, but I haven't done the 300 round shooting session in a while now. But I have surely gotten some leading in the barrel just past the forcing cone.. How much of that is antimony is anybody's guess, but I just call it leading -.nothing that some routine cleaning would not take care of though. But with PC bullets, that no longer happens. Best to ya, FC
Short sessions like 100 rounds are flawless. But extended stays at the range WITHOUT cleaning the gun show the minor issue mentioned above.
All the best and keep'em videos coming.
UnstoppableNick69 - Ha, UnstoppableNick69 - I like your style..."Short session" defined as 100 rounds :). Last weekend, these two young men came to the range to shoot their autopistols. They each shot twenty rounds or so during one target change, then packed up their guns and left. Not a good return on their range fees for sure. Continued good shootin' sessions to ya..!! FC
Oh I know those type of guys. And believe it or not they have thousands of posts on various gun forums.
I have only three speed loaders so those comes ready loaded and 18 rounds will go in a less than a minute to warm up the gun and my senses.
Short sessions are great when time is not enough for a full day, but I enjoy 5-6 hours sessions at the range. Shoot, have lunch, socialize with other fellow shooters then shoot till I have no ammo. It is good for writing down observations, test results, honing skills and it is also therapeutic for getting rid of stress and recharging batteries.
Sometimes I even help the range guys with minor chores and in exchange they let me have a bucket of range scrap. Life can't be better than that.
Please keep making videos. You gave me so many ideas and things to try out. God bless.
UnstoppableNick69 - And God bless to you and yours...the saying goes PTL and Pass the Ammunition...gotta do that when burning lots of ammo... FC
So it would be fine to run powder coated bullets through a factory glock barrel?
Technically, yes. But the issue there isn't the bullets, it's the brass. Especially if we are talking about 40 S&W. The unsupported chamber leaves a bulge "smile" and the loose chamber diameter causes the entire case to bulge some as well. If the brass weakens, work hardens as it is sized multiple times, and the weak area aligns with the unsupported area of the chamber (the feed ramp), you can have a KABOOM. There's plenty of evidence of this. I got an aftermarket barrel after I had a badly split case that I know for sure was only reloaded one time. When you can get a Lone Wolf barrel for around 100 bucks, I think it is worth your safety and peace of mind to do what it takes for you to be able to buy one. Even if you have to hold off on shooting reloads until you can afford it. I know this issue isn't quite as bad in 9mm or 45, I am speaking about my research and experience with a Glock 22 in .40 cal.
FC what brand of PC do you use.
Great video and thank you for that. If there is a next time, could you pull a patch through and show us the patch? What about autoloading rifles? Gas ports could be an issue.
Does the softness of the lead matter if they are powder coating and are sized right?
C K - Within reason, hardness is no longer an issue...but if bullets are too soft, and shot at too high a velocity - the PC will take care of any leading problems, but the bullets can still strip off the rifling and shoot poorly. This strip off was what caused the armies of the world to go to jacketed bullets when smokeless powder outstripped the performance capabilities of cast bullets. We can stretch the usefulness of cast bullets a bit more today, but there is still a limit. Best to ya, FC
FortuneCookie45LC thanks for the reply. I'm just getting into powder coating for rifle bullets and looking forward to testing how hard I can push them before I have to elbow grease the lead out of the bores.
C K - The only reason you don't see me powder coating my 223 bullets is that I bought a lifetime supply Sierra FMJs and MKs back in my high power shooting days...With all those bullets, no need to cast 223. And I avoid any leading issues with my 223s that way... Best to ya, FC
I'm casting for an old mosin nagant rifle. The barrel has some wear on it and needs larger than .311 bullets. I'm casting and powder coating sized to
.314.
C K - That sounds like par for the course with those Mosins...good shootin' to ya...!! FC
but powder coating does seem to work
That's awesome!
Bubba Rountree Outdoors - Thanks, Wade...and PC is getting more popular by the month..!! Best to ya, FC Steve
Ain't it the truth!! I'm going to powder coat some buckshot here soon and see how it works out... Stay safe Steve!
A easy way to get the lead out is using the old Lewis Lead remover.
Any interest in 45 acp+p for revolvers, maybe a 452423 Lyman mold?
Thompson Jerry - The 45 ACP in a 45 Colt/45 ACP convertible revolver is the same as shooting 44 Russian vs 44Spl/44Mag or shooting 45 Schofield / 45ACP in a 45 Colt. The shorter case is more efficient in its velocity range than the bigger case...Plus the 45 ACP is very capable in its own right...(as we all know). Sure, that would make a great video...I'm already doing the shorter case thing now with the 45 Schofield - the 45 ACP would be a short Schofield. Have a great day, FC
Mr. Steve-- I need your help. As you know I am trying to get a better hold on BHN for lead cast powder coated rifle bullets.
I though if I could get an accurate reading for BHN on my ingots I could "Standardize" my lead casting. So I bought a very nice lead tester. It's easy to use-- but I think it maybe a pile of junk. I just tested a Roto metals Iino type ingot several times and it is giving me a reading of BHN 17. I also tested my lyman number # 2 ingots and they gave a reading of BHN 11.
Do you think I could send you the tester and see what you think about it ? Is it a ZERO or is it a Hero ? I would really like your opinion on it and the only way to do that is to send you the tester. I hope I am not putting any pressure on you to do it. But It would help-- Thank you for considering it. VE
Vengenace Early - Thanks for the comment / question, Vengenace. Have you tried the tech support for your instrument? You could use the proportionation compensation for the apparent shift in the hardness readings. So we do know that linotype is BHN 22 - the reading you are getting at 17 would then require a compensation factor of 1.294 so then the 11 reading on Lyman #2 would wind up at BHN 14 or BHN 15-16 once you water quench - not bad. All hardness testing is done the same way - a known is pressed into the lead and then the interpretation is done. My thumbnail works, but others like to use a little spring ball and then magnify the indent. Or take a reading off a scale. Calibration of instruments is always a concern - even thumbnails can vary in hardness depending on how much gelatin we consume... If you wish to send me the tester to have a look, I'd be glad to work with it, but that compensation factor will be right there in the mix - you might want to work with it more with that consideration - you might find you like the rascal... Even if I like your tester, my thumbnail is still going to be what I use for relative hardness factors of my lead. I use a drop address of FortuneCookie45LC; C/O Trilliant Studios; 130 Linden Street; Oakland CA 94536 Best to ya, FC Steve
Thanks FC-- I have worked with it for sometime-You calibrate it by moving the dial to zero it out. .
The ammo channel "Measuring lead hardness - Bullet casting and reloading" is the exact type of tester I am using. I wanted to standardize testing to exact BHN so I could repeat my casting -- which is not a factor in handgun reloading as much as rifle. But I am trying to get a good powder coated rifle bullet. Thanks for letting me send it to you. VE Jeff. PS I am sending Elvis Ammo some of my bullets to test as well.
Vengenace Early - Will look for the video from Elvis on your bullets - that will be interesting... Best Regards, FC Steve
just finished casting them .. so good timing FC
Wow, so many shooters out there that act like lead in the bore is as bad as a diagnosis of terminal cancer. Here's 2 ways to quickly and easily remove lead. Mix a half and half mixture of distilled white vinegar and common hydrogen peroxide. About a shot glass worth will do. Plug your barrel with an old ear plug stand your roscoe upright ( or remove barrel for auto loaders) fill it with this liquid and let stand about 10 minutes. Dump it out, rinse with water and run a tight fitting patch through it. If any traces of lead remain, a couple strokes with a bore brush should finish the clean up. 2. Buy some copper gauze, cut a strip 1/2 in wide by a few inches long. Wrap this around a bore brush. You want a tight fit. About 10 passes with this DRY will leave you with a clean bore. I can shoot 500 rounds through either revolver or auto and bore clean up is the quickest part of cleaning afterwards.
John Petty - I know a load is clean enough if I shoot 200 rounds of cast ammo and the accuracy is as good with the last shot as the first - I know that barrel cleaning will be as easy as you report (and 500 rounds is even better). A clean shooting cast load is that because of bullet fit to gun, bullet hardness commensurate with our load pressure and velocity, lube used (PC or not) and our gun set up including quality of the barrel. If we have that, we have a clean shooting load and any mixture or method we use to clean will do the job well for us - I call that light fouling or leading. But of course I thank you for sharing your mixture and copper mesh trick - that's good to know. Moderate leading occurs when there are streaks of lead that do not obliterate the rifling - and heavy leading causes bullet keyholing because the rifling is being obliterated. Moderate and heavy leading occur when the above criteria for clean shooting ammo/gun are not in place. And that is the leading that shooters hate to see. Continued good shootin' to ya, FC Steve
FortuneCookie45LC I remember a time when my friend who was new to reloading rolled up some soft swaged semi wad cutters in .357 cases and used a magnum type charge. About 2 cylinders of those and he had a smooth bore revolver! Best to ya.
i concur ... lead in the barrel is no big deal at all . I use ChoreBoy wrapped around a worn brush and pull it through a couple times. waala . Its the ones who keep scrubbing and scrubbing with Solvent and never get it out that worry :) Theyd never be a cowboy action shooter if they get freaked out by a little lead in the barrel
Nice "Gats"
OOOOHHHHH my wrists!
:-)
Nice glass. But I thought the topic is powder coated bullets prevent......
I mean thank you but no. I can't take you serious. Why not only put the topic out, Tactical insane Revolvers. But about lead or coating I'll think you missed completely the topic.
Me personally am not so much a fan of overloaded Revolvers.