Something else I should have talked about in here is the really weird structure of this line. I mentioned at 1:11 that the phrases in synonymous parallelism often share similar syntax. It's unusual for synonymous parallelism to move from a positive (I let you live here for free) to a negative (I don't even charge you rent). On top of that, the two phrases are combined with the word "and." Thus, it SEEMS as if the second phrase is adding logically to the first when, in fact, it is not. Had the phrases been combined with "yeah" instead, it would have made the emphasis more obvious. Combine that with the other problems I mentioned in here, and you have a recipe for disaster. Edit: I have now addressed this in my follow up video.
In my opinion the "and" is the biggest downfall. "I let you live here for free! I don't charge you rent" would have been okay. Not great but fine. The "and" necessitates the idea to be different and the "even" necessitates it to be more generous than the first thing he said. It's like "oreos are my favorite cookies, I like them a lot" vs "oreos are my favorite cookies and I even like them a lot"
@@redtailarts101 I already answered your other comment, but just to be thorough, I’ll repeat it here: “And” definitely doesn’t help here, though I would not say it boils down to just that. Ursula’s “repented” line used “and,” and so did the Biblical examples I gave. So no, it’s a bit more complicated than that.
@@CleverUsername1 I’m not sure I’m convinced that Ursula’s line would sound good with “even,” as the redundancy would be overkill at that point. Again, the differences between her points and Magnifico’s two points are negligible. But I would fully agree with your last statement. I’m actually intending to make a follow up video to this one to talk more about the issue, since I stupidly left it out here 🤦♀️
I honestly think if they just removed the word "and" and "even" ("I let you live here for free! I don't charge you rent!") The parallelism can work better because of the emphasis
I think that's also what set it difrent from other examples in this video. These were just repeating, his line isn't actually repetition. It's a one sentence, "I do that and I also do that" but it's the same thing. It's as if he said "I don't hit you and I never land my hand on you".
@@late_prince8945What do you mean be saying, “his line isn’t actually repetition?” Somehow I’m not sure that’s what you really meant. Repeating the exact same thing in different words is the very definition of synonymous parallelism. Granted, Magnifico’s repetition is scrunched into one line, which can make it sound more awkward, but so was Ursula’s “repented” line, and so were the examples from Biblical poetry: “My son, do not despise the LORD's discipline and do not resent his rebuke” (Prov. 3:11). To quote one author: “The second half of the verse makes no logical addition; it echoes, with variation, the first.” Magnifico’s line isn’t worse because it is actually more redundant; it is worse because the repetition is poorly executed. Sorry if I am ranting; I am rather zealous about this subject. A very good day to you 🙂
@@godrules311I think what that person is getting at is that Magnifico IS repeating himself but the sentence is phrased as though he’s following up with new information. That’s the main thing causing the poor execution on top of the other reasons mentioned in the video.
Hey, Turn it Down, a fan song for Dolores from Encanto is a banger. It isn't in Lin's exact style but still good. They even got her voice actress to sing it
Another slight change they could’ve made would be “I let you live here for free, yeah there’s no need to charge you rent.” as that’s more reassurance to the people than merely repeating the same fact twice.
That's better than what I have thought up. I'm not a song writer, but I sometimes give it a go; I think my attempt is too modern: "I let you live here for free So why should I charge you rent?"
I couldn't articulate it until other people said it, but one of the biggest problems to me is how the "and I don't even charge you rent" isn't being used for emphasis to get a point across. He's phrasing it like it's bonus information that makes the deal better.
Essentially it boils down to one thing Parallelism is saying the same thing twice, and it has effect. What wish did was say the same thing twice but with an "and" in between, which made it necessary for them to be two different ideas. Example: "Oreos are my favorite cookies! I like them a lot" Vs "Oreos are my favorite cookies, and I like them a lot."
“And” definitely doesn’t help here, though I would not say it boils down to just that. Ursula’s “repented” line used “and,” and so did the Biblical examples I gave. So no, it’s a bit more complicated than that.
Another example from Hellfire that represents the other half of the whole idea behind the song, "It's not my fault / I'm not to blame / It is the Gypsy girl, the witch who set this flame"
I actually think he might have been able to sell it if he delivered the line right. If he said it as though really emphasizing to the audience " YEAH! that's right, I don't even charge them RENT! " like, "hey imaginary audience i'm ranting out loud to-- can you believe how absurd and entitled my kingdom is after everything i do for them?" Which IS the point of why he's singing the song, that's the emotional breaking point that drove him to a musical number, though you might not garner that from how its written. We only know this because he looks out the window right before singing, but the song does a terrible job at conveying that he feels earnestly unappreciated and not just that his pride is hurt.
I completely get what he’s trying to say with this line; it’s just that they seriously overdid it here. After all, not charging rent is only one example of his generosity, and not even the main one (which is granting wishes). I remember thinking after verse 2: “Okay, I get it already! He’s under appreciated. Move on!” And then when the bridge happens, I thought: “Wait, how did we get here?” The structure of this song is horrendous.
@@godrules311 Okay, personally I think letting people live there for free is the most shocking generosity he does but that's a matter of opinion from a broke college student lmao. But you're right, the structure is all off no matter what. I do think a lot of the repetitiveness of it would have landed better if the song had more punch to it overall than the boring steady pop sound it has though.
My best friend said that too. It doesn’t bother me overly much, since this is clearly very light and humorous in tone. If it happened in a story like Lord of the Rings or Game of Thrones, I would be annoyed. But I can see why you would say that.
I’d also like to point out that the second line in the example from Hellfire was also a double entendre: “you will burn” at the stake or “you will burn” in hell. Two literary devices well-crafted into one.
That line could be so much better if he said "i let you live here for free. I don't even charge you rent" instead of "and i don't even charge you rent" to put some emphasis on his previous statement, and also letting a bit of resentment bleed while saying the second part. Like he is actually mad they aren't being thankful enough.
Yes, as I said in the pinned comment, the “and” definitely isn’t helping (neither is “even” for that matter). Removing “and” helps, though I don’t think it would completely fix it. It has too many other problems.
There were worse songs in that film. Wtf does "throw caution to every warning sign" even mean!? I also found a lot of the songs just plain difficult, it's like they were trying to get three verbal statements into each bar!
This video isn’t criticizing the song as a whole, just the one line. It really doesn’t work as a villain song though. And you’re right, that line from “This Wish” sounds ridiculous. I didn’t even bother making a video for that one because the problem is so blatantly obvious. Lyric-wise, I would say “I’m a Star” is the worst in the film.
@@CleverUsername1 Yeah, it really sounds like it was AI generated. Gotta wonder how AI came up with the word “excitedtory” in “I’m a Star.” Even AI doesn’t usually make up nonexistent words.
@@CleverUsername1 Yes, I saw on another video on the order of adjectives in that sentence. This movie is looking more and more like it was AI generated. Which could have worked if they were competent enough to smooth out the lyrics into something workable, but apparently not.
That is actually incredibly interesting and is kinda scary than simple changes on the way the line was song could change so much the reception of the it.
Another seemingly tiny difference between this line and the other examples is the use of the word "and". The other songs know they are repeating the same meaning in multiple sentences, they are doing it on purpose. They're essentially rephrasing the statement in order to make it better understood and to drive home the point. Ariel reminiscing about her feelings twice is her really dwelling in those emotions, looking to find more words to express them. None of these are joined by an "and" , because "and" always implies that you are adding new information to what was previously said. If we take it out of Magnifico's line, it immediately becomes so much less infuriating. "I let you live here for free, I don't even charge you rent" now paints the picture of someone who is in disbelief, who has to repeat this fact to himself to convince himself that he is a good person (compared to someone who awkwardly tries to explain economy).
I actually pointed this out in the pinned comment. “And” definitely doesn’t help here, though I would not say it boils down to just that. Ursula’s “repented” line used “and,” and so did the Biblical examples I gave. So no, it’s a bit more complicated than that.
I had always thought that line didn't sound that terrible for being repetitive but something else felt off and a bit unnatural that I didn't really know why. Thank you for clarify for me the actual problems of that sentence that have different deeper factors than just being synonymous parallelism by itself! I really love videos that explain and help identify my thoughts better.
Omggg thank you for this. Everytime that line was brought up as being “repetitive” I was wondering what makes it different from songs like Irreplaceable by beyonce lol you answered my question 🙌🏻
when i listened to this is the thanks i get, i was like what the heck and what am i listening to? Oh that's what magnifico repeats the line over and over again in the song.
Yeah, it really doesn’t feel like a villain song at all. I highly recommend Astor Rhymemaster’s video about this song. She really breaks down a lot of the problems in it, and it was actually her video that brought my attention to this line.
I thought that the line was meant to sound ridiculous and artificial. The song is about Magnifico desperately trying to convince others that he's a hero, and in this lyric, he's overhyping his one good deed. That said, I haven't watched the movie yet, I'm basing this mostly off of the song. Personally, this song is at best a guilty pleasure, I like the tune and the singing. I think it just should've been shorter cause hearing 3 verses that essentially boils down to "Magnifico's vain" can get tiring and I don't like the constant repeating of its title.
If it was meant to be ridiculous and artificial, they seriously overdid it. I haven’t actually watched the movie yet either, which is why I’m not reviewing the movie as a whole but just the song. I like the music in and of itself (for the most part), but I don’t think it works very well as a villain song: it’s too upbeat until it suddenly goes dark and just isn’t consistent.
@@godrules311 Hearing that song for the first time, it honestly sounds more like a protagonist's song than a villain song. There's an indescribeable feeling that I have when listening to villain songs and that make me think that ot sounds good and it may be due to the way the notes are played. It may be due to how some villains are able to play with the tone expressed in certain parts with the music accompanying it that sort of gives different kinds of feelings in certain parts and seems to also show a villain's power. However, in Magnifico's song, I don't feel an ounce of variation other than a somewhat upbeat and cheerful type of feeling, something that just feels out of place for a major villain. It just feels kind of weak? As though there's nothing that makes me feel even a bit scared of Magnifico or feel Magnifico's greatness and impact. I still don't know how to describe it
@@yukishiro3287 Yes. This should never have been written as a pop song. It doesn't feel like a villain song at all until the bridge. I highly recommend Astor Rhymemaster's video about this song.
I think another issue with it is the “and” in the middle, if you take that out it sounds and even flows better “I let you live here for free, I don’t even charge you rent”
I learned about this concept as 'hendiades' (from Ancient Greek 'one in two'), expressing the idea of saying one thing two ways. Cool how classics comes back to bite you
7:43 I have to make a different point: the main problem with the cadence *_and_* the line comes from that "and." In parallelism, you will most often find that any ands are chained in such expressions as those found in the Bible; however, songs largely avoid using them, and there is a good reason for that: it stresses and emphasizes the repetition in a bad way. In fact, you might be surprised to find out that the original text in the Bible *_ALSO_* lacks those ands, i.e. the Hebrew text from the Torah only has those expressions in quick succession. This fits *_all_* your examples (from Frollo, Ariel *_and_* Ursula) to a t! Beyond that, that "and" is the gravest lyrical grievance; it impacts the pacing *_and_* the overall meaning, because, again, the other characters merely *_rephrased_* the same thing in their repetition, but never used that "and," which (combined with "even") alludes that charging rent and living for free on land is somehow different. You could change that second line to: "I 'NEver charged 'YOU rent" and the line becomes a lot less musically stilted and more sensible: it's repetitive, yes, but it doesn't suggest the rephrasing is anything but just that.
I actually addressed this in my pinned comment. I feel like a shmuck for not including it in the video itself 😅 Though there actually are examples of synonymous parallelism that use "and," such as Matthew 7:2 (which DOES include "and" in the Greek), plus Ursula's "repented" line. So no, having "and" is not a deal breaker if done properly.
At first I at least gave the benefit of the doubt that this line was meant to be ironic and Magnifico was overselling his graciousness, wanting extra credit for the exact same thing. So many more of the lyrics in Wish were just awful though.
I suppose that could be true, though the song is really too repetitive in general and they seriously overdid how ridiculous it sounds (especially if you consider the fact that Magnifico is essentially talking to himself, since no other characters but Asha and star are present, which he doesn't know). But the stilted music, plus the bad structure as I mentioned in the pinned comment, just makes it fall flat.
the real issue of this line are the words "and" & "even". those words combined make it seem like the repetition isn't a repetition but two different things that could happen on their own. it's like he's saying: "i let you live here for free and furthermore, i don't charge you rent!" = you can do this thing and you can even do THE SAME thing! tbh the repetition in that line could probably work fine if it weren't for that.
Hellfire and ariels song's parallelism is also an emphasis. "CHOOSE me or the pyre-" is giving esmeralda a choice (bad one though), "BE mine or you WILL burn." Is underlining the consequences of that choice. Ariel: "what would I GIVE to live where you are? What would I PAY to stay here beside you?" Giving something you already have feels like less than paying for something. It's difficult to explain, but it's like giving someone a kiss vs paying someone with a kiss. One feels more innocent, while the other is more desperate. And it keeps going along that desperation-line with "what would I do to see you smiling at me". She's giving more and more for less and less. Which then moves smoothly into her giving away her voice and the promise of her soul to a sea-witch for 3 days with the prince. "I let you live here for free" "I dont even charge you rent" = there's not really any consequences to this. There's not really a point that needs emphasis.
@@godrules311 there you see, I'm not that good at expressing my meaning. Other Disney songs use parallelism as intended, wish fails because it didn't. Thank you for correcting my response (sincerely!)
I know people have been giving the line "I let you live here for free and I don't even charge you rent" a lot of flack for basically saying the same thing twice but the problem isn't that it's saying the same thing twice but that it's doing it lazily and haphazardly like poor unfortunate souls does this a lot but it does it in such a way that don't notice it as it is sung so rhythmically with such a rhyming scheme that feeds into it and it's not just this disney villain song that does it btw. For a more in depth analysis of this point I'd recommend a video made by GodRules 311 and for more in depth wish song critiques Astor Rhymemaster. These two have been very helpful at explaining why these songs don't sound right.
Thanks for the recommendation! Props for recommending Astor’s video too 😊 Though I have to ask, did you post this comment elsewhere? Because if people are reading it here, clearly they already know about my video 😅
@@godrules311 I think youtube accidentally duplicated my comment so that it is 2 or 3 comment sections including this one. I believe one is in Astor's comment section, another in a random wish video and this one here. I don't remember the specific other videos I was watching so I can't delete the videos as I do not recall the specific videos. I apologize if this came across as spam.
“I can’t help it, if mirrors love my face. It’s genetics! Yeah, I got these genes from outer space!” So yeah, not sure why he’s talking about how hot he is, instead of figuring out why his people were questioning his authority/ruling?? He’s been talking about appearance pretty much half the entire song. I’m doing a rewrite but I’m not using Disney’s sad excuse of a villain song, so instead I’m using milky melodies ft Caleb hyles called “message to the people”.
What gets me about that line is that it gives us information that should be important but isn't. Is he saying he's actually from outer space? Is he a star come down in human form? It goes nowhere, because it's impossible to tell in these songs what's literal and what's metaphorical.
Just finished watching the movie for the first time and can see why it was so hated lol, great analysis! This line also could have been fixed with something like: "You live in a perfect kingdom, And I don't even charge you rent!"
This makes so much sense! I have always felt a bit uneasy about the 'repeats the same thing' criticism but felt there was something wrong with the lyric here. I had the following line from 'Prince Ali' in mind Genuflect\ show some respect\ Down on one knee which is just the same thing repeated thrice - but the word choices are (imo) clever. I would have had no idea what Genuflect was - and both the rhyme scheme and the animation plays into the lyric (and it also works in making Aladdin seem like a bigger than life character - essentially the point of the entire song.) On that note, I can't believe how awful the meter and rhyme scheme are in 'This Is the Thanks I Get'.
I think the problem boils down to in the other songs they were aware of the fact that they were repeating the same information and were doing so for specific reasons, whereas Magnifico's repeated information seems like they were somehow unaware? I know that sounds insane because it's clear as day, but if you repeat something for literally no reason, the most obvious reason would be that you didn't fully realize you were just repeating, and I think as you pointed out the "and" being there kind of lends itself to that. Like, whoever wrote the song didn't grasp the fact that they were repeating the same information, somehow, thus eliminating the need for a reason to repeat in their mind?
Yes (I mentioned that at 4:21). She’s basically playing head games with Ariel, which makes sense. It’s often more effective when the villain sings their song to someone else besides themselves.
You take a song like this and compare it to a past Disney song like "Prince Ali" or even it's reprise sung by Jaffar and there is no comparison. The depth of rhyme and fluidity of old Disney songs makes Wish all the more tragic.
My problem with that line is not that it's redundant, but the word "and". I can't find the words to describe why though. If you replace "and" with "yeah" or "no" the line sounds fine to me. It's like using "and" changes it from being synonymous parallelism to... I don't know the term. Wrong. X'D
@@godrules311 I did, but maybe I wasn't paying as much attention as I thought. XD I'll check it out again! I thought you were saying more that the enunciation is mostly why it was off.
@@Altt It’s more about the weird structure, because it changes from a positive to a negative while combining it with “and,” so it seems like it’s adding when it’s not.
@@godrules311 Those are the words I couldn't figure out how to say! Thank you. XD This is why I shouldn't multi-task. Thank you for explaining it to me again.
this line COULD work if the repetition was part of the joke. if the point was "magnifico describes the same thing twice to make the list of his good deeds seem longer than it is", that'd be kinda funny and clever. but I don't think this movie is intelligent enough to make that statement
Great video. On another note, something that truly irks me is that no one talks about the REAL problem with this line. If King Magnifico "lets them live here for free" and "doesn't even charge them rent", where does the kingdom get its money from? I get that it's a Disney movie and therefore isn't going to talk about war or conquest or anything that's too complex, but the cost of living and maintaining the kingdom still needs to be covered. And, there's also the royal treasury. Is it empty? Does he collect money from magic or the stars? What does he do? Sorry for nitpicking and have a nice day.
I don’t think this line is as redundant as people make it out to be. If you consider this is a medieval-ish setting, one can easily assume the king has the right to charge all sorts of taxes, fees and tolls from the people living in his land, so when he says “live here for free” it could mean he doesn’t charge any of these and, on top of that, he doesn’t even charge rent, meaning people live in Rosas completely charge-free. It is still a bad line and the song as a whole is incredibly mid, specially after being announced as the “first evil Disney villain song” since, idk, Tangled? I’m glad you addressed the real motive this sucks, the rhythm and cadence, instead of simply pawning it off to the perceived redundancy of the words.
True. It is basically saying the same thing, as the difference is negligible, but you could make a case for it. And you’re right; the medieval setting is somewhat at odds with the more modern language (this goes for several songs in this movie).
Okay, I don’t go around defending this movie. It’s not a good movie. But I have seen way too much hatred for this line in particular. I need to say this very loud for the people in the back. THIS! LINE! WAS! MEANT! TO! BE! A! JOKE! It is absolutely insane to me to think that so many people would rather believe that Disney is so brain-dead that no one noticed the obvious problem with that sentence, rather than that Disney tried to make a joke that fell flat. Magnifico is saying the same thing twice in a slightly different way but is pitching it as though he is saying two different things, which he thinks might trick a gullible person who doesn’t stop to think about what he is selling. Again, you can argue that this is not a funny joke, but it absolutely baffles my mind how not a single person seems to think this joke was intentional. And for the record, I don’t think the movie is very good overall, and there’s plenty of things about the film and the song to criticize. But for so much of the criticism to fall on one single lyric is just unfair.
To be honest, I made this video because while I believe this to be a badly written line, I do not agree with the usual argument for WHY it is bad. It's one thing to say that the line is bad; it's another to explain the reason. If this was meant to be a joke (which it could well be), it was very poorly executed, especially with the stilted music underneath it. Regardless of the intention, it's a bad line. Frankly, considering how horrendous the lyrics to most of this movie's songs are, I am not so certain that Disney ISN'T that brain-dead, or else just exceedingly lazy. These songs feel like they were written by AI with the often butchered language, rhythm, and rhyme schemes. Disney set this up to be a celebration of their 100th anniversary, but this is just pathetic. And for the record, if I have anything to say about this line or any other line, I can and will. People are free to talk about whatever they want, and I happen to find the subject of language fascinating. If you are tired of this topic, that's fine, but then I suggest you avoid videos on it. It's best to stay away from things that upset you so. Have a good day 🙂
Okay, kid. You don't seem to be keyed into the nuances and implication of words. Because a lot of these things are not the same thing. 1) Lying tongues and deceitful lips. I'll give you this one. Mostly, I would say this was for emphasis to reinforce the concept and the disdain. 2) Despise no the discipline and resent not the rebuke. Discipline and rebuke are two different things. They often are paired together. But they are totally different. Maybe the words are more similar or more different in the original language? I don't know. But discipline can be anything from being strict to enduring physical punishment, while a rebuke is a sharp criticism. 3) Choose me or your pyre, be mine or you will burn. The firs verse states that the choice is Esmeralda's. Frollo is in agony, waiting to be chosen. The second sentence is a threat. Frollo is basically an example of the original incel, and while he says the same thing two different ways, in the first like, she has control, and in the second line he asserts his dominance and is no longer passively longing. The difference is very important. 4) What would I give to live where you are? What would I pay to stay here beside you? In the first statement Ariel is fantasizing about the human world and being a part of it. And the second statement she's fantasizing about living with this particular man. It's a "fall in lover" or at least "get a crush" moment. Living in the human world and living with a particular man are, in fact, very different things. 5) Poor Unfortunate Souls. --A lady who's withdrawn is someone who is shy. --It's she who holds her tongue who gets a man: Patriarchy incoming as a proper lady holds her tongue to get a man. This is known. At least to women in a patriarchal society. So the song is just repeating adages the viewers will have heard. This is, perhaps, a contemporary viewer reaction that is being lost over time (and good. I hope it is.) -- men don't like a lot of blabber: have some more patriarchy. Women just talk and talk about nothing. --They think a girl who gossips is a bore: Gossiping is different than nothing, it's spreading secrets and stories, usually with other women. --It's preferred for ladies not to say a word: You're going to be fine if you can't talk at all. -- What is idle prattle for? Talking really doesn't have a point, does it? --They're not all that impressed by conversation: Even if you can discuss a topic intelligently, they're not going to be impressed by it. As for your changes to the song I lead you come here for free -- and I don't even charge you rent. That does fix the problem somewhat, but is it actually true? Isn't the price of coming there giving up your Wish? Is Magnifico paying for the boats to drop people off on the island, or are they booking their own passage? I think your lyric is great, but not true.
*sigh* Do you normally go around calling people "kid" merely because they don't agree with you? It's quite patronizing on your part. I'm going to guess that you didn't bother watching my follow-up video, and I find it interesting that you wrote so much about mostly nothing. But since you spent so much time, I feel I should reply in kind. 1. Yes, you are correct on this one. 2. Has it occurred to you that rebuking is a form of discipline? Plus, Hebrew poetry has a habit of using synecdoche, where a part is used for a whole. Rebuke may be only one form of discipline, but they are still regarded as synonyms. 3. Are you really telling me that if someone said to you, "Choose me or your pyre," you would not find this threatening? That is ridiculous. The meaning of both sentences is clear: Be my mistress or die a horrible fiery death. There is NO significant difference in meaning. That is the entire point of synonymous parallelism - to say essentially the same thing, but in a different way. He is making the same statement, just using a different method of doing so. 4. "Live where YOU are." Did you not catch that? Ariel is referring specifically to Eric in both sentences. This one could actually be argued for a slight difference since "stay here beside you" is a bit more specific than "live where you are," but it's still fairly similar and each line still implies Ariel's feelings for Eric. 5. The basic point: Men prefer women who don't talk. It doesn't matter if you can rephrase each of these sentences in different words; they still all amount to the same message. You also seemed to be missing the fact that Ursula deliberately repeats herself in here as a way to gaslight Ariel into accepting the deal. My change - If the point was about money (which is implied) then my lyric is quite correct. Was it ever stated that Magnifico charges some kind of entrance fee? I don't know if the people pay their own travel expenses, but that is hardly the same thing, and if he doesn't charge rent, then that would indicate he doesn't need money anyway (Why would he when he has magic?). And if taking people's wishes when they arrive negates "I let you come here for free," then him taking wishes from citizens that were born there would negate the problem of redundancy with the original line, and would instead be simply incorrect. In fact, you could go so far as eek out a difference between Magnifico's two phrases, since there are other ways to charge people besides rent (such as income tax, property tax, or even, as you yourself pointed out, wishes). Really, if you are going to go through the trouble of hashing out the tiny, negligible differences in each of these lines, you may as well do it for this one. I would also like to give you the definition of synonymous - "having the same or nearly the same meaning as another word or phrase in the same language." Let me reiterate part of that: "NEARLY the same." The synonymous phrases do not have to be 100% exactly the same to qualify for the term, though they often are. Every one of these examples would qualify as synonymous parallelism. Good night 🙂
@@godrules311 I call people kid when they appear to be young and to not have caught on to rather key elements. If you want to fess up to being 70, go right ahead an I'll retract my statements. Your voice sounds like you're in your 20s at the oldest. Though some people are cursed with a child's voice no matter how old they get. But being unable to detect nuance and difference in statements ... well, I know they tested me on that in school ages ago. I did consider it politer to think you hadn't gotten to some key parts of your education than to think you were just ignorant. Discipline can include a rebuke, depending on what specifically you meant by the word in the first place as there is punishment and then there is merely focus. But it is not limited by it. A square is a rectangle. But not all rectangles are squares. An item that can fit within a category is not a synonym for that category itself. And the specificity is frequently significant. "Choose me or your pyre" I'd consider that a very poor attempt at a threat. If I'm choosing, I also have things like the ability to choose neither. Or the ability to take my time in choosing, considering I have no issues with burning my dead body. If we're still at the point where I'm choosing, we're still at the point where I have power. Language has both text and subtext, and if you can't follow the power dynamics in the subtext, you're going to have issues. Ariel. Sigh. I'm going to assume you're familiar with the movie and Ariel's big song about her thingamabobs? The whole point of the reprise is her transferring her fascination with the human world onto this human man. Again, wanting to be in the world is not the same thing as wanting to be with a particular person. She identifies his world, the place she's been longing for, and then attaches that longing to him in particular. But the man is not the world. Ursula? Oh, no, I'm quite agreed with you that she's a saleswoman working on commission to get this deal done. But there's a huge difference between idle prattle and conversation. And certainly a difference between being withdrawn and not talking at all. Being able to group like things is great. But you also have to understand their differences. She doesn't say the same thing six times. She end runs arguments by anticipating them and supplying a counter before they even begin, circling around and around her sales pitch. You could say walking and running were the same thing because they're both going to move you in a horizontal direction, but the fact that running is faster is a potentially important difference that conveys information in itself. Ursula's words are carefully chosen and convey information like ti doesn't matter if you're smart or stupid,a man isn't going to want to hear your voice. That the only things you can do with your voice are annoying and boring. There are very, very few words in any language that have the exact same meaning. Words that are duplicates either fall out of use or develop new, more specific meanings, like shirt and skirt. They used to be a word for a kind of tunic-like garment. Eventually shirt became a word for the top half and skirt for the bottom half. Try handing a guy a skirt when they asked you to pass them a shirt, and despite the fact that they are both clothing items, they'll probably tell you really quickly that they're very different things and the difference is important. And I'm picking words for physical items here because I'm hoping the visualization helps. It's definitely easier than trying to explain the differences between gossip and prattle if you haven't already picked up on them. As for Maginiico, I never said he needed money. I could theorize about his tax program, but that really seems like an outside issue. Whether he wants or needs money or not isn't important to the lyric. Or the story, I think. Only whether he charges. The lyric isn't accurate if the people have to pay passage to get to Magnificos country. I mean, it's free to go most places in the world. But I think people checking airlines and boat schedules and budgeting gas for cars would beg to differ about the "free" concept. I'm not sure what you mean about taking wishes from the people born there (yes, I know he does that, i'm just unclear on your point.) There's certainly an argument to be made that nothing is free in Magnifico's country. Which I think is one of the arguments for it being a bad song in general due to that lyric. As for your definition of synonymous, let's got back to Ursula's song in one place she says conversation. Which in high society terms inherently to mean intelligent and worthwhile. All ladies cultivate their skills at conversation. Conversely, we have her pull in idle prattle, which would be foolish talk. So you are claiming that "Don't talk even if you sound intelligent" is the same as "Don't talk because you'll sound dumb." Last time I checked, intelligent and dumb were antonyms, not synonyms.
@@jenniferhanses 70? What an arbitrary standard. I happen to know some 70 year olds who act like fools, and some 20 year olds who are amazingly wise. I think some people would classify your approach as ageism. If you must know, I am in my 30s. But what is far more relevant is that I have a B.A. in English and a Grad Certificate in TESOL, and I also taught English for four years (two in China, two in the U.S.). Please do share your literature and language credentials with me; I am quite curious to hear them, as they are far more pertinent than your age. But I suggest you not go around calling people "kid," regardless of your opinion of them. It makes you sound conceited, whether you really are or not. In all of these examples, you have missed the basic point: They were all intentionally repetitive of their idea for the sake of emphasis (and in Ursula's case, manipulation on the part of Ariel and humor for the audience).The differences you keep bringing up are so insignificant as to be negligible. To paraphrase C. S. Lewis on the subject, you have failed to recognize this as a pattern, and thus you are finding mare's nests in your effort to get a different meaning out of each half of the verse. You don't need to take my word for it; look up synonymous parallelism and every expert on the subject will tell you the same. Perhaps we should bring this conversation to a close, since it seems to be nothing but a waste of time on both our parts. Have a nice day.
Something else I should have talked about in here is the really weird structure of this line. I mentioned at 1:11 that the phrases in synonymous parallelism often share similar syntax. It's unusual for synonymous parallelism to move from a positive (I let you live here for free) to a negative (I don't even charge you rent). On top of that, the two phrases are combined with the word "and." Thus, it SEEMS as if the second phrase is adding logically to the first when, in fact, it is not. Had the phrases been combined with "yeah" instead, it would have made the emphasis more obvious. Combine that with the other problems I mentioned in here, and you have a recipe for disaster.
Edit: I have now addressed this in my follow up video.
I was just thinking that and going to comment. Glad to see you added it here and phrased it way more eloquently than I would have lol.
In my opinion the "and" is the biggest downfall. "I let you live here for free! I don't charge you rent" would have been okay. Not great but fine. The "and" necessitates the idea to be different and the "even" necessitates it to be more generous than the first thing he said. It's like "oreos are my favorite cookies, I like them a lot" vs "oreos are my favorite cookies and I even like them a lot"
@@redtailarts101 I already answered your other comment, but just to be thorough, I’ll repeat it here:
“And” definitely doesn’t help here, though I would not say it boils down to just that. Ursula’s “repented” line used “and,” and so did the Biblical examples I gave. So no, it’s a bit more complicated than that.
@@CleverUsername1 I’m not sure I’m convinced that Ursula’s line would sound good with “even,” as the redundancy would be overkill at that point. Again, the differences between her points and Magnifico’s two points are negligible.
But I would fully agree with your last statement.
I’m actually intending to make a follow up video to this one to talk more about the issue, since I stupidly left it out here 🤦♀️
@@CleverUsername1 Fair enough.
the fact you dissected a single line for 7 minutes and actually had interesting stuff to say is really impressive lol thank you
Thank you!
😊z
I honestly think if they just removed the word "and" and "even" ("I let you live here for free! I don't charge you rent!") The parallelism can work better because of the emphasis
It would be less awkward for sure, though it still needs better rhythm under it. There are quite a few ways you could fix this line.
I think that's also what set it difrent from other examples in this video. These were just repeating, his line isn't actually repetition. It's a one sentence, "I do that and I also do that" but it's the same thing. It's as if he said "I don't hit you and I never land my hand on you".
@@late_prince8945What do you mean be saying, “his line isn’t actually repetition?” Somehow I’m not sure that’s what you really meant.
Repeating the exact same thing in different words is the very definition of synonymous parallelism. Granted, Magnifico’s repetition is scrunched into one line, which can make it sound more awkward, but so was Ursula’s “repented” line, and so were the examples from Biblical poetry: “My son, do not despise the LORD's discipline and do not resent his rebuke” (Prov. 3:11). To quote one author: “The second half of the verse makes no logical addition; it echoes, with variation, the first.” Magnifico’s line isn’t worse because it is actually more redundant; it is worse because the repetition is poorly executed.
Sorry if I am ranting; I am rather zealous about this subject. A very good day to you 🙂
@@godrules311I think what that person is getting at is that Magnifico IS repeating himself but the sentence is phrased as though he’s following up with new information. That’s the main thing causing the poor execution on top of the other reasons mentioned in the video.
@@midosworld That’s why I made the follow up video to say this very thing 🤣
"This is the thanks i get" sounds like a TH-cam fan song
And even those can have WAY more a careful (for lack of a better word) lyrics that this
Edit: Idk if I wrote that right I'm spanish
@@aynohalopesdealmeida9932 they have actual passion and fan love behind them
This song doesnt
@@Panzystubbedtheirtoe idk, enough to make a better song in one day thant Disney in whatever the lasted
Hey, Turn it Down, a fan song for Dolores from Encanto is a banger. It isn't in Lin's exact style but still good. They even got her voice actress to sing it
@@swissgoat4981 i love that song!!! Or3o always has bangers
Another slight change they could’ve made would be “I let you live here for free, yeah there’s no need to charge you rent.” as that’s more reassurance to the people than merely repeating the same fact twice.
I actually said something similar in the follow-up video.
That's better than what I have thought up. I'm not a song writer, but I sometimes give it a go; I think my attempt is too modern:
"I let you live here for free
So why should I charge you rent?"
I couldn't articulate it until other people said it, but one of the biggest problems to me is how the "and I don't even charge you rent" isn't being used for emphasis to get a point across. He's phrasing it like it's bonus information that makes the deal better.
Did you watch the follow up video? I said the same thing there 😉
@@godrules311 Not yet, I'll check it out!
Essentially it boils down to one thing
Parallelism is saying the same thing twice, and it has effect.
What wish did was say the same thing twice but with an "and" in between, which made it necessary for them to be two different ideas.
Example:
"Oreos are my favorite cookies! I like them a lot"
Vs
"Oreos are my favorite cookies, and I like them a lot."
“And” definitely doesn’t help here, though I would not say it boils down to just that. Ursula’s “repented” line used “and,” and so did the Biblical examples I gave. So no, it’s a bit more complicated than that.
"I fink you freeky and I like you a lot" _Die Antwoord
Another example from Hellfire that represents the other half of the whole idea behind the song, "It's not my fault / I'm not to blame / It is the Gypsy girl, the witch who set this flame"
That’s a good one too.
I love hellfire. One of my most top 5 Disney villains songs. Good choice.
Probably a better example from hellfire is
"It's not my fault, im not to blame"
It really is just the same thing twice.
Very true.
I actually think he might have been able to sell it if he delivered the line right. If he said it as though really emphasizing to the audience " YEAH! that's right, I don't even charge them RENT! " like, "hey imaginary audience i'm ranting out loud to-- can you believe how absurd and entitled my kingdom is after everything i do for them?" Which IS the point of why he's singing the song, that's the emotional breaking point that drove him to a musical number, though you might not garner that from how its written. We only know this because he looks out the window right before singing, but the song does a terrible job at conveying that he feels earnestly unappreciated and not just that his pride is hurt.
I completely get what he’s trying to say with this line; it’s just that they seriously overdid it here. After all, not charging rent is only one example of his generosity, and not even the main one (which is granting wishes). I remember thinking after verse 2: “Okay, I get it already! He’s under appreciated. Move on!” And then when the bridge happens, I thought: “Wait, how did we get here?” The structure of this song is horrendous.
@@godrules311 Okay, personally I think letting people live there for free is the most shocking generosity he does but that's a matter of opinion from a broke college student lmao. But you're right, the structure is all off no matter what. I do think a lot of the repetitiveness of it would have landed better if the song had more punch to it overall than the boring steady pop sound it has though.
@@abc.6223 Fair enough 🙂
@@abc.6223I agree from a historical “things cost taxes, often TOO MANY taxes and not enough social services!!” Standpoint.
I personally feel the line doesn't fit in the setting of that world. Like it feels like it would fit in a world that was a mix of city and fairytale.
My best friend said that too. It doesn’t bother me overly much, since this is clearly very light and humorous in tone. If it happened in a story like Lord of the Rings or Game of Thrones, I would be annoyed. But I can see why you would say that.
I’d also like to point out that the second line in the example from Hellfire was also a double entendre: “you will burn” at the stake or “you will burn” in hell. Two literary devices well-crafted into one.
I think that the worst line in the whole movie is the "Watch out world here I are."
Have you seen my video on “I’m a Star”?
@@godrules311neup
I’m a fan how you integrate your faith into your criticism! I haven’t seen a creator do that and I think it’s great :)
Thanks!
That line could be so much better if he said "i let you live here for free. I don't even charge you rent" instead of "and i don't even charge you rent" to put some emphasis on his previous statement, and also letting a bit of resentment bleed while saying the second part. Like he is actually mad they aren't being thankful enough.
Yes, as I said in the pinned comment, the “and” definitely isn’t helping (neither is “even” for that matter). Removing “and” helps, though I don’t think it would completely fix it. It has too many other problems.
There were worse songs in that film. Wtf does "throw caution to every warning sign" even mean!? I also found a lot of the songs just plain difficult, it's like they were trying to get three verbal statements into each bar!
This video isn’t criticizing the song as a whole, just the one line. It really doesn’t work as a villain song though. And you’re right, that line from “This Wish” sounds ridiculous. I didn’t even bother making a video for that one because the problem is so blatantly obvious. Lyric-wise, I would say “I’m a Star” is the worst in the film.
@@CleverUsername1 Yeah, it really sounds like it was AI generated. Gotta wonder how AI came up with the word “excitedtory” in “I’m a Star.” Even AI doesn’t usually make up nonexistent words.
@@CleverUsername1 Yes, I saw on another video on the order of adjectives in that sentence. This movie is looking more and more like it was AI generated. Which could have worked if they were competent enough to smooth out the lyrics into something workable, but apparently not.
@@godrules311tear apart I’m a star next ;>>
@@crimsonmaverick8237 Maybe sometime. I’ve already got three more of these lined up, but none of them are Disney-related.
I mentioned this movie a friend who hadn't heard of it at all. She looked it up and immediately said, "it looks bad. It looks like a video game"
That is actually incredibly interesting and is kinda scary than simple changes on the way the line was song could change so much the reception of the it.
Yes. It’s amazing the impact that even a single word can have on entire song. That’s the power of language.
*_And this is the song we get?_*
Another seemingly tiny difference between this line and the other examples is the use of the word "and".
The other songs know they are repeating the same meaning in multiple sentences, they are doing it on purpose. They're essentially rephrasing the statement in order to make it better understood and to drive home the point. Ariel reminiscing about her feelings twice is her really dwelling in those emotions, looking to find more words to express them.
None of these are joined by an "and" , because "and" always implies that you are adding new information to what was previously said. If we take it out of Magnifico's line, it immediately becomes so much less infuriating.
"I let you live here for free, I don't even charge you rent" now paints the picture of someone who is in disbelief, who has to repeat this fact to himself to convince himself that he is a good person (compared to someone who awkwardly tries to explain economy).
I actually pointed this out in the pinned comment. “And” definitely doesn’t help here, though I would not say it boils down to just that. Ursula’s “repented” line used “and,” and so did the Biblical examples I gave. So no, it’s a bit more complicated than that.
I had always thought that line didn't sound that terrible for being repetitive but something else felt off and a bit unnatural that I didn't really know why. Thank you for clarify for me the actual problems of that sentence that have different deeper factors than just being synonymous parallelism by itself! I really love videos that explain and help identify my thoughts better.
Omggg thank you for this. Everytime that line was brought up as being “repetitive” I was wondering what makes it different from songs like Irreplaceable by beyonce lol you answered my question 🙌🏻
when i listened to this is the thanks i get, i was like what the heck and what am i listening to? Oh that's what magnifico repeats the line over and over again in the song.
but i like seeing other villain's songs.
Yeah, it really doesn’t feel like a villain song at all. I highly recommend Astor Rhymemaster’s video about this song. She really breaks down a lot of the problems in it, and it was actually her video that brought my attention to this line.
@@viviennemorgan7217 Me too.
@@godrules311 like a pop song.
@@godrules311 yep
I thought that the line was meant to sound ridiculous and artificial. The song is about Magnifico desperately trying to convince others that he's a hero, and in this lyric, he's overhyping his one good deed.
That said, I haven't watched the movie yet, I'm basing this mostly off of the song.
Personally, this song is at best a guilty pleasure, I like the tune and the singing. I think it just should've been shorter cause hearing 3 verses that essentially boils down to "Magnifico's vain" can get tiring and I don't like the constant repeating of its title.
If it was meant to be ridiculous and artificial, they seriously overdid it. I haven’t actually watched the movie yet either, which is why I’m not reviewing the movie as a whole but just the song. I like the music in and of itself (for the most part), but I don’t think it works very well as a villain song: it’s too upbeat until it suddenly goes dark and just isn’t consistent.
@@godrules311 Yeah those are all fair points.
@@godrules311 Hearing that song for the first time, it honestly sounds more like a protagonist's song than a villain song. There's an indescribeable feeling that I have when listening to villain songs and that make me think that ot sounds good and it may be due to the way the notes are played. It may be due to how some villains are able to play with the tone expressed in certain parts with the music accompanying it that sort of gives different kinds of feelings in certain parts and seems to also show a villain's power. However, in Magnifico's song, I don't feel an ounce of variation other than a somewhat upbeat and cheerful type of feeling, something that just feels out of place for a major villain. It just feels kind of weak? As though there's nothing that makes me feel even a bit scared of Magnifico or feel Magnifico's greatness and impact. I still don't know how to describe it
@@yukishiro3287 Yes. This should never have been written as a pop song. It doesn't feel like a villain song at all until the bridge. I highly recommend Astor Rhymemaster's video about this song.
I think another issue with it is the “and” in the middle, if you take that out it sounds and even flows better
“I let you live here for free, I don’t even charge you rent”
Yes. I mentioned this in the pinned comment, but the change from a positive phrase to a negative one, combined by “and,” makes for a very weird line.
I learned about this concept as 'hendiades' (from Ancient Greek 'one in two'), expressing the idea of saying one thing two ways. Cool how classics comes back to bite you
No kidding 😂
7:43 I have to make a different point: the main problem with the cadence *_and_* the line comes from that "and." In parallelism, you will most often find that any ands are chained in such expressions as those found in the Bible; however, songs largely avoid using them, and there is a good reason for that: it stresses and emphasizes the repetition in a bad way. In fact, you might be surprised to find out that the original text in the Bible *_ALSO_* lacks those ands, i.e. the Hebrew text from the Torah only has those expressions in quick succession. This fits *_all_* your examples (from Frollo, Ariel *_and_* Ursula) to a t!
Beyond that, that "and" is the gravest lyrical grievance; it impacts the pacing *_and_* the overall meaning, because, again, the other characters merely *_rephrased_* the same thing in their repetition, but never used that "and," which (combined with "even") alludes that charging rent and living for free on land is somehow different. You could change that second line to: "I 'NEver charged 'YOU rent" and the line becomes a lot less musically stilted and more sensible: it's repetitive, yes, but it doesn't suggest the rephrasing is anything but just that.
I actually addressed this in my pinned comment. I feel like a shmuck for not including it in the video itself 😅
Though there actually are examples of synonymous parallelism that use "and," such as Matthew 7:2 (which DOES include "and" in the Greek), plus Ursula's "repented" line. So no, having "and" is not a deal breaker if done properly.
At first I at least gave the benefit of the doubt that this line was meant to be ironic and Magnifico was overselling his graciousness, wanting extra credit for the exact same thing. So many more of the lyrics in Wish were just awful though.
I suppose that could be true, though the song is really too repetitive in general and they seriously overdid how ridiculous it sounds (especially if you consider the fact that Magnifico is essentially talking to himself, since no other characters but Asha and star are present, which he doesn't know). But the stilted music, plus the bad structure as I mentioned in the pinned comment, just makes it fall flat.
the real issue of this line are the words "and" & "even". those words combined make it seem like the repetition isn't a repetition but two different things that could happen on their own.
it's like he's saying: "i let you live here for free and furthermore, i don't charge you rent!"
= you can do this thing and you can even do THE SAME thing!
tbh the repetition in that line could probably work fine if it weren't for that.
Did you watch the follow up video? I said the same thing there 😉
Hellfire and ariels song's parallelism is also an emphasis.
"CHOOSE me or the pyre-" is giving esmeralda a choice (bad one though), "BE mine or you WILL burn." Is underlining the consequences of that choice.
Ariel: "what would I GIVE to live where you are? What would I PAY to stay here beside you?" Giving something you already have feels like less than paying for something. It's difficult to explain, but it's like giving someone a kiss vs paying someone with a kiss. One feels more innocent, while the other is more desperate. And it keeps going along that desperation-line with "what would I do to see you smiling at me". She's giving more and more for less and less. Which then moves smoothly into her giving away her voice and the promise of her soul to a sea-witch for 3 days with the prince.
"I let you live here for free" "I dont even charge you rent" = there's not really any consequences to this. There's not really a point that needs emphasis.
Yes, that’s usually the purpose of synonymous parallelism (Ariel’s is also climactic parallelism). Magnifico’s just isn’t accomplishing anything.
@@godrules311 there you see, I'm not that good at expressing my meaning. Other Disney songs use parallelism as intended, wish fails because it didn't. Thank you for correcting my response (sincerely!)
I took it as he couldnt come up with anything else to justify his actions. So he said the same thing to make it seem like he did more
I suppose so. He sure did a clunky job of it though 🤣
I know people have been giving the line "I let you live here for free and I don't even charge you rent" a lot of flack for basically saying the same thing twice but the problem isn't that it's saying the same thing twice but that it's doing it lazily and haphazardly like poor unfortunate souls does this a lot but it does it in such a way that don't notice it as it is sung so rhythmically with such a rhyming scheme that feeds into it and it's not just this disney villain song that does it btw.
For a more in depth analysis of this point I'd recommend a video made by GodRules 311 and for more in depth wish song critiques Astor Rhymemaster.
These two have been very helpful at explaining why these songs don't sound right.
Thanks for the recommendation! Props for recommending Astor’s video too 😊
Though I have to ask, did you post this comment elsewhere? Because if people are reading it here, clearly they already know about my video 😅
@@godrules311 I think youtube accidentally duplicated my comment so that it is 2 or 3 comment sections including this one.
I believe one is in Astor's comment section, another in a random wish video and this one here. I don't remember the specific other videos I was watching so I can't delete the videos as I do not recall the specific videos. I apologize if this came across as spam.
@@magicalpopfish9570 No worries.
I invite you to my kingdom
and never charge you rent
Yep, that works too.
You know how the chorus continues on with the same sentence they should change the sentence with the last word like disrespect or regret
Agreed, it’s a little overly repetitive for my taste.
@@godrules311 they’re not exactly good rhymes but there something
@@Bubblelove236 It’s all good 😉
“I can’t help it, if mirrors love my face. It’s genetics! Yeah, I got these genes from outer space!”
So yeah, not sure why he’s talking about how hot he is, instead of figuring out why his people were questioning his authority/ruling?? He’s been talking about appearance pretty much half the entire song. I’m doing a rewrite but I’m not using Disney’s sad excuse of a villain song, so instead I’m using milky melodies ft Caleb hyles called “message to the people”.
What gets me about that line is that it gives us information that should be important but isn't. Is he saying he's actually from outer space? Is he a star come down in human form? It goes nowhere, because it's impossible to tell in these songs what's literal and what's metaphorical.
Just finished watching the movie for the first time and can see why it was so hated lol, great analysis!
This line also could have been fixed with something like:
"You live in a perfect kingdom,
And I don't even charge you rent!"
Indeed 🙂
Taking out the 'and' makes it even better. Like he says it on a shrug.
@@jolliapplegirl You're right! That would be a very good way to complete it
@@jolliapplegirl Yes. Don’t know if you saw the follow up video, but I said in there that it might have worked better with “yeah.”
This makes so much sense! I have always felt a bit uneasy about the 'repeats the same thing' criticism but felt there was something wrong with the lyric here. I had the following line from 'Prince Ali' in mind
Genuflect\ show some respect\ Down on one knee
which is just the same thing repeated thrice - but the word choices are (imo) clever. I would have had no idea what Genuflect was - and both the rhyme scheme and the animation plays into the lyric (and it also works in making Aladdin seem like a bigger than life character - essentially the point of the entire song.) On that note, I can't believe how awful the meter and rhyme scheme are in 'This Is the Thanks I Get'.
Yes. Repetition is fine when correctly executed, but it can cause disaster if it’s not done properly.
I think the problem boils down to in the other songs they were aware of the fact that they were repeating the same information and were doing so for specific reasons, whereas Magnifico's repeated information seems like they were somehow unaware? I know that sounds insane because it's clear as day, but if you repeat something for literally no reason, the most obvious reason would be that you didn't fully realize you were just repeating, and I think as you pointed out the "and" being there kind of lends itself to that. Like, whoever wrote the song didn't grasp the fact that they were repeating the same information, somehow, thus eliminating the need for a reason to repeat in their mind?
It’s mind-boggling 😵💫
Great video! I’m glad TH-cam recommended it to me!
Thanks!
Plus with Poor Unfortunate Souls, Ursula is trying to egg Ariel on to to give up her voice, and manipulate her.
Yes (I mentioned that at 4:21). She’s basically playing head games with Ariel, which makes sense. It’s often more effective when the villain sings their song to someone else besides themselves.
Could have just said "and i waive away your debts" instead of "and i don't even charge you rent"
This Is The Thanks Bob Iger Get
You take a song like this and compare it to a past Disney song like "Prince Ali" or even it's reprise sung by Jaffar and there is no comparison. The depth of rhyme and fluidity of old Disney songs makes Wish all the more tragic.
No kidding. I don’t know if anyone expected Howard Ashman-level lyrics, but this is pathetic.
My problem with that line is not that it's redundant, but the word "and". I can't find the words to describe why though. If you replace "and" with "yeah" or "no" the line sounds fine to me. It's like using "and" changes it from being synonymous parallelism to... I don't know the term. Wrong. X'D
Did you watch the follow up video? I said the same thing there 😉
@@godrules311 I did, but maybe I wasn't paying as much attention as I thought. XD I'll check it out again! I thought you were saying more that the enunciation is mostly why it was off.
@@Altt It’s more about the weird structure, because it changes from a positive to a negative while combining it with “and,” so it seems like it’s adding when it’s not.
@@godrules311 Those are the words I couldn't figure out how to say! Thank you. XD This is why I shouldn't multi-task. Thank you for explaining it to me again.
Clear explanation !
this line COULD work if the repetition was part of the joke. if the point was "magnifico describes the same thing twice to make the list of his good deeds seem longer than it is", that'd be kinda funny and clever. but I don't think this movie is intelligent enough to make that statement
True. Changing "and" to "yeah" could probably achieve that effect (I actually made this comment in the follow-up video).
I appriciate the Big O pfp
Cast in the name of God, ye not guilty 😁
Great video. On another note, something that truly irks me is that no one talks about the REAL problem with this line.
If King Magnifico "lets them live here for free" and "doesn't even charge them rent", where does the kingdom get its money from? I get that it's a Disney movie and therefore isn't going to talk about war or conquest or anything that's too complex, but the cost of living and maintaining the kingdom still needs to be covered. And, there's also the royal treasury. Is it empty? Does he collect money from magic or the stars? What does he do? Sorry for nitpicking and have a nice day.
Yeah, it’s a mystery. If they didn’t bring it up, I’d chalk it up to “Disney magic.” But they did, so it’s fair game 😆
@@godrules311 Yeah, I felt the same way 😅
Love your analysis, subscribed
Thanks!
I don’t think this line is as redundant as people make it out to be. If you consider this is a medieval-ish setting, one can easily assume the king has the right to charge all sorts of taxes, fees and tolls from the people living in his land, so when he says “live here for free” it could mean he doesn’t charge any of these and, on top of that, he doesn’t even charge rent, meaning people live in Rosas completely charge-free. It is still a bad line and the song as a whole is incredibly mid, specially after being announced as the “first evil Disney villain song” since, idk, Tangled? I’m glad you addressed the real motive this sucks, the rhythm and cadence, instead of simply pawning it off to the perceived redundancy of the words.
True. It is basically saying the same thing, as the difference is negligible, but you could make a case for it. And you’re right; the medieval setting is somewhat at odds with the more modern language (this goes for several songs in this movie).
....and subscribed.
And God bless to you as well.
Thank you!
What’s your pfp from? It looks really cool
It’s from an anime called the Big O. It’s basically Batman meets Gundam meets the Matrix (sort of).
Thank
Outside of the good critiques, it's so nice to hear you reference Bible verses in this video. May the LORD bless you and keep you, sister!
Thanks, you too!
The open Christianity and the Bible verse examples were cool :)
Okay, I don’t go around defending this movie. It’s not a good movie. But I have seen way too much hatred for this line in particular.
I need to say this very loud for the people in the back.
THIS! LINE! WAS! MEANT! TO! BE! A! JOKE!
It is absolutely insane to me to think that so many people would rather believe that Disney is so brain-dead that no one noticed the obvious problem with that sentence, rather than that Disney tried to make a joke that fell flat.
Magnifico is saying the same thing twice in a slightly different way but is pitching it as though he is saying two different things, which he thinks might trick a gullible person who doesn’t stop to think about what he is selling.
Again, you can argue that this is not a funny joke, but it absolutely baffles my mind how not a single person seems to think this joke was intentional.
And for the record, I don’t think the movie is very good overall, and there’s plenty of things about the film and the song to criticize. But for so much of the criticism to fall on one single lyric is just unfair.
To be honest, I made this video because while I believe this to be a badly written line, I do not agree with the usual argument for WHY it is bad. It's one thing to say that the line is bad; it's another to explain the reason.
If this was meant to be a joke (which it could well be), it was very poorly executed, especially with the stilted music underneath it. Regardless of the intention, it's a bad line. Frankly, considering how horrendous the lyrics to most of this movie's songs are, I am not so certain that Disney ISN'T that brain-dead, or else just exceedingly lazy. These songs feel like they were written by AI with the often butchered language, rhythm, and rhyme schemes. Disney set this up to be a celebration of their 100th anniversary, but this is just pathetic.
And for the record, if I have anything to say about this line or any other line, I can and will. People are free to talk about whatever they want, and I happen to find the subject of language fascinating. If you are tired of this topic, that's fine, but then I suggest you avoid videos on it. It's best to stay away from things that upset you so.
Have a good day 🙂
In Short this movie SUCKS
Well, having never actually seen the whole movie, it’s not my place to judge. But I can definitely testify that most of the song lyrics are garbage.
@@godrules311 well sometimes I can tell when a movie sucks based on its music alone
@@TheAntiDisneyGod At the least it tells me how much they screwed up this character.
Okay, kid. You don't seem to be keyed into the nuances and implication of words. Because a lot of these things are not the same thing.
1) Lying tongues and deceitful lips. I'll give you this one. Mostly, I would say this was for emphasis to reinforce the concept and the disdain.
2) Despise no the discipline and resent not the rebuke. Discipline and rebuke are two different things. They often are paired together. But they are totally different. Maybe the words are more similar or more different in the original language? I don't know. But discipline can be anything from being strict to enduring physical punishment, while a rebuke is a sharp criticism.
3) Choose me or your pyre, be mine or you will burn. The firs verse states that the choice is Esmeralda's. Frollo is in agony, waiting to be chosen. The second sentence is a threat. Frollo is basically an example of the original incel, and while he says the same thing two different ways, in the first like, she has control, and in the second line he asserts his dominance and is no longer passively longing. The difference is very important.
4) What would I give to live where you are? What would I pay to stay here beside you? In the first statement Ariel is fantasizing about the human world and being a part of it. And the second statement she's fantasizing about living with this particular man. It's a "fall in lover" or at least "get a crush" moment. Living in the human world and living with a particular man are, in fact, very different things.
5) Poor Unfortunate Souls.
--A lady who's withdrawn is someone who is shy.
--It's she who holds her tongue who gets a man: Patriarchy incoming as a proper lady holds her tongue to get a man. This is known. At least to women in a patriarchal society. So the song is just repeating adages the viewers will have heard. This is, perhaps, a contemporary viewer reaction that is being lost over time (and good. I hope it is.)
-- men don't like a lot of blabber: have some more patriarchy. Women just talk and talk about nothing.
--They think a girl who gossips is a bore: Gossiping is different than nothing, it's spreading secrets and stories, usually with other women.
--It's preferred for ladies not to say a word: You're going to be fine if you can't talk at all.
-- What is idle prattle for? Talking really doesn't have a point, does it?
--They're not all that impressed by conversation: Even if you can discuss a topic intelligently, they're not going to be impressed by it.
As for your changes to the song
I lead you come here for free -- and I don't even charge you rent.
That does fix the problem somewhat, but is it actually true? Isn't the price of coming there giving up your Wish? Is Magnifico paying for the boats to drop people off on the island, or are they booking their own passage? I think your lyric is great, but not true.
*sigh* Do you normally go around calling people "kid" merely because they don't agree with you? It's quite patronizing on your part.
I'm going to guess that you didn't bother watching my follow-up video, and I find it interesting that you wrote so much about mostly nothing. But since you spent so much time, I feel I should reply in kind.
1. Yes, you are correct on this one.
2. Has it occurred to you that rebuking is a form of discipline? Plus, Hebrew poetry has a habit of using synecdoche, where a part is used for a whole. Rebuke may be only one form of discipline, but they are still regarded as synonyms.
3. Are you really telling me that if someone said to you, "Choose me or your pyre," you would not find this threatening? That is ridiculous. The meaning of both sentences is clear: Be my mistress or die a horrible fiery death. There is NO significant difference in meaning. That is the entire point of synonymous parallelism - to say essentially the same thing, but in a different way. He is making the same statement, just using a different method of doing so.
4. "Live where YOU are." Did you not catch that? Ariel is referring specifically to Eric in both sentences. This one could actually be argued for a slight difference since "stay here beside you" is a bit more specific than "live where you are," but it's still fairly similar and each line still implies Ariel's feelings for Eric.
5. The basic point: Men prefer women who don't talk. It doesn't matter if you can rephrase each of these sentences in different words; they still all amount to the same message. You also seemed to be missing the fact that Ursula deliberately repeats herself in here as a way to gaslight Ariel into accepting the deal.
My change - If the point was about money (which is implied) then my lyric is quite correct. Was it ever stated that Magnifico charges some kind of entrance fee? I don't know if the people pay their own travel expenses, but that is hardly the same thing, and if he doesn't charge rent, then that would indicate he doesn't need money anyway (Why would he when he has magic?). And if taking people's wishes when they arrive negates "I let you come here for free," then him taking wishes from citizens that were born there would negate the problem of redundancy with the original line, and would instead be simply incorrect.
In fact, you could go so far as eek out a difference between Magnifico's two phrases, since there are other ways to charge people besides rent (such as income tax, property tax, or even, as you yourself pointed out, wishes). Really, if you are going to go through the trouble of hashing out the tiny, negligible differences in each of these lines, you may as well do it for this one.
I would also like to give you the definition of synonymous - "having the same or nearly the same meaning as another word or phrase in the same language." Let me reiterate part of that: "NEARLY the same." The synonymous phrases do not have to be 100% exactly the same to qualify for the term, though they often are. Every one of these examples would qualify as synonymous parallelism.
Good night 🙂
@@godrules311 I call people kid when they appear to be young and to not have caught on to rather key elements. If you want to fess up to being 70, go right ahead an I'll retract my statements. Your voice sounds like you're in your 20s at the oldest. Though some people are cursed with a child's voice no matter how old they get.
But being unable to detect nuance and difference in statements ... well, I know they tested me on that in school ages ago. I did consider it politer to think you hadn't gotten to some key parts of your education than to think you were just ignorant.
Discipline can include a rebuke, depending on what specifically you meant by the word in the first place as there is punishment and then there is merely focus. But it is not limited by it. A square is a rectangle. But not all rectangles are squares. An item that can fit within a category is not a synonym for that category itself. And the specificity is frequently significant.
"Choose me or your pyre" I'd consider that a very poor attempt at a threat. If I'm choosing, I also have things like the ability to choose neither. Or the ability to take my time in choosing, considering I have no issues with burning my dead body. If we're still at the point where I'm choosing, we're still at the point where I have power. Language has both text and subtext, and if you can't follow the power dynamics in the subtext, you're going to have issues.
Ariel. Sigh. I'm going to assume you're familiar with the movie and Ariel's big song about her thingamabobs? The whole point of the reprise is her transferring her fascination with the human world onto this human man. Again, wanting to be in the world is not the same thing as wanting to be with a particular person. She identifies his world, the place she's been longing for, and then attaches that longing to him in particular. But the man is not the world.
Ursula? Oh, no, I'm quite agreed with you that she's a saleswoman working on commission to get this deal done. But there's a huge difference between idle prattle and conversation. And certainly a difference between being withdrawn and not talking at all. Being able to group like things is great. But you also have to understand their differences. She doesn't say the same thing six times. She end runs arguments by anticipating them and supplying a counter before they even begin, circling around and around her sales pitch.
You could say walking and running were the same thing because they're both going to move you in a horizontal direction, but the fact that running is faster is a potentially important difference that conveys information in itself.
Ursula's words are carefully chosen and convey information like ti doesn't matter if you're smart or stupid,a man isn't going to want to hear your voice. That the only things you can do with your voice are annoying and boring.
There are very, very few words in any language that have the exact same meaning. Words that are duplicates either fall out of use or develop new, more specific meanings, like shirt and skirt. They used to be a word for a kind of tunic-like garment. Eventually shirt became a word for the top half and skirt for the bottom half. Try handing a guy a skirt when they asked you to pass them a shirt, and despite the fact that they are both clothing items, they'll probably tell you really quickly that they're very different things and the difference is important.
And I'm picking words for physical items here because I'm hoping the visualization helps. It's definitely easier than trying to explain the differences between gossip and prattle if you haven't already picked up on them.
As for Maginiico, I never said he needed money. I could theorize about his tax program, but that really seems like an outside issue. Whether he wants or needs money or not isn't important to the lyric. Or the story, I think. Only whether he charges.
The lyric isn't accurate if the people have to pay passage to get to Magnificos country. I mean, it's free to go most places in the world. But I think people checking airlines and boat schedules and budgeting gas for cars would beg to differ about the "free" concept.
I'm not sure what you mean about taking wishes from the people born there (yes, I know he does that, i'm just unclear on your point.)
There's certainly an argument to be made that nothing is free in Magnifico's country. Which I think is one of the arguments for it being a bad song in general due to that lyric.
As for your definition of synonymous, let's got back to Ursula's song in one place she says conversation. Which in high society terms inherently to mean intelligent and worthwhile. All ladies cultivate their skills at conversation. Conversely, we have her pull in idle prattle, which would be foolish talk.
So you are claiming that "Don't talk even if you sound intelligent" is the same as "Don't talk because you'll sound dumb." Last time I checked, intelligent and dumb were antonyms, not synonyms.
@@jenniferhanses 70? What an arbitrary standard. I happen to know some 70 year olds who act like fools, and some 20 year olds who are amazingly wise. I think some people would classify your approach as ageism.
If you must know, I am in my 30s. But what is far more relevant is that I have a B.A. in English and a Grad Certificate in TESOL, and I also taught English for four years (two in China, two in the U.S.). Please do share your literature and language credentials with me; I am quite curious to hear them, as they are far more pertinent than your age. But I suggest you not go around calling people "kid," regardless of your opinion of them. It makes you sound conceited, whether you really are or not.
In all of these examples, you have missed the basic point: They were all intentionally repetitive of their idea for the sake of emphasis (and in Ursula's case, manipulation on the part of Ariel and humor for the audience).The differences you keep bringing up are so insignificant as to be negligible. To paraphrase C. S. Lewis on the subject, you have failed to recognize this as a pattern, and thus you are finding mare's nests in your effort to get a different meaning out of each half of the verse. You don't need to take my word for it; look up synonymous parallelism and every expert on the subject will tell you the same.
Perhaps we should bring this conversation to a close, since it seems to be nothing but a waste of time on both our parts. Have a nice day.