Should You Be USING ND FILTERS on Your Action Camera?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ค. 2024
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00:00 - Intro
00:21 - ND filters can make footage worse
01:04 - ND filters can negatively impact stabilization
02:00 - What is an ND filter
03:20 - How to use ND filters
04:25 - Setting up the camera for ND filters
07:22 - Manual exposure control
09:40 - Putting on the filters
What are ND filters? Why should I use one? Will an ND filter really make my video footage look better? Will an ND filter make a difference on a GoPro or other action camera?
In this video we take a look at these questions, and break down exactly when and why you should be using Neutral Density (ND) filters on your GoPro, Insta360, or other action camera.
ND filters are quite simple, they darken your footage which can allow for some improvements in camera settings. When shooting video, it's best to set your shutter speed to exactly twice that of your frame rate. This means that at 24fps, we should be using a shutter speed of 1/48th (or 1/50th) of a second.
The problem is, with a shutter speed of 1/48th of a second your footage will be too bright even at your lowest ISO of 100 on a bright sunny day. This is where ND filters come in. We can set our camera to manual mode and lock the shutter speed at 1/48th, and the ISO at 100. At that point we know we have the best settings in the camera so we can then use ND filters to control the brightness of the image by trying lighter and darker filters.
Essentially ND filters allow us to keep the best settings on our camera, while also ensuring perfectly exposed footage. Awesome!
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Gear Used for this video:
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MIC: bhpho.to/39SDC3z
AUDIO RECORDER: bhpho.to/2Gy91vo
ND FILTER: bhpho.to/2UOtZi8
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Thanks for watching the video Should You Be Using ND Filters on Your Action Camera?
Special thanks to RMSP Professional Intensive graduate Harvey Schwier for capturing the b-roll used in this video: th-cam.com/channels/gZN1Q8tljknFqfoRxHrsGg.html
Watched a few videos on this subject, and yours really cleared it up for me on a conceptual level. Superb presentation, thanks.
A really well-explained video. The way you broke down what ND actually is really resonated with me. Such a simple and clear description. Brilliant. Thanks
Excellent video and superb story telling ability to explain the key details to getting the right shot for your video! Keep it up and please do a video on your audio setup! Thanks again!
Thank goodness a decent video that just explains things the way i want to hear. Thanks man
So clear, so perfect. Congrats bro! ❤️ Greetings from Argentina
Thank you. Great video - you didn’t pronounce ISO wrong. ISO is an acronym for International Organization for Standardization - as an acronym it’s perfectly fine to say the letters individually.
Thank you for sharing this video sir! Very explanatory and informative!!🙏🔝👍
This was great video and answered alot of my questions about this. Thank you for in depth
Glad it was helpful!
Hello! Thanks for all the great informative videos! You kind of glazed over White Balance here. Is there another video that explains the setting?
I appreciate this, this saved a ton of frustration setting up the settings!
Glad to hear!
Another very informative video. ND filters have been a very confusing issue for me as a motovlogger, this video has really educated me with regard to using them correctly. I’m going to reset my GoPro accordingly and go do some experimentation. Thanks guys 👍👍👍
Great to hear! Have fun using those ND filters!
This is the only video that i was able to understand how nd filters work
Great video, have you tested graduated neutral density filters on the Gopro 10?
These are very useful tips and setups. I'm going to follow your recommendations so I can get the best quality out of my GoPro Hero 11's new set of ND filters. Thanks!
Great to hear!
9:18 is a brilliant explanation that sums it up perfectly. Great video
Thank you!
Thank for this thorough explanation of using ND filters. I also have them for my drone and my Hero 7
My pleasure!
great explanation! I've been experimenting with the Polar Pro filters. I find I get a lot of noise though, not sure why.
probably because it's too dark and the camera is boosting the ISO to compensate, which adds noise
Thank you for sharing.... Great explaination in regards to the use of ND's. I've followed the same rules as you have shown which works very well. I normally take it one step further by checking my EV while placing on ND's, getting it as close to 0.0 and/or -0.5 for those bright scenes. Thanks again....👍😊
Glad it was helpful!
The ND filter is not the source of poor stabilization, it's the shutter speed. Shooting at 24fps and setting the shutter at 1/48 will result in jittery stabilization whether there is a filter on the camera or not with action shots typically associated with GoPros. GoPro stabilization depends somewhat on being able to manipulate shutter speed so if the shutter is set to 'auto' the stabilization works as designed. The filter has nothing to do with stabilization.
Makes sense! Thanks!
@InternationalBigshot is it best I'll use auto instead of doubling the shutter speed? For example, I will set it to 60fps and the shutter will just leave to auto? Enlighten me sir. I'm planning to buy an nd filter for the first time and use it on my motorcycle videos. I never used an nd filter since hero 5, now i'm using hero 11.
@@tootzkiemoto simply put, the higher the shutter speed, the better hypersmooth will work, there's a rough estimate that says:
1/48 = bad
1/100 = moderate
1/180 or higher = good.
I think if you want the best of both worlds woudl be shooting at 5k/60 and using a 1/120 shutterspeed, you'll notice the difference in the hypersmooth performance on the lack of jitters.
For normally active footage, just use shutterspeed around 4x framerate (eg. 30 fps --> 1/120 ss)
@@tootzkiemoto In my opinion trying to achieve the so-called 'cinematic' look with an action camera by manipulating frame rate and shutter speed is not a good idea. The stabilization that these cameras are known for depend on being able to adjust shutter speed as needed, or, to put it another way, set it to 'Auto' and forget it. Setting a fixed shutter speed that is too low defeats the stabilization algorithm and you end up with artifacts in the resulting clips.
If you're purchasing a filter specifically so you can use a slow shutter then I think that is a mistake on an action cam.
If i got that right, its this way.
If i go snowboarding on a bright day and let camera decide which iso is right, then it will automatic go down to 100? Or all the way up?
Shutter speed will go slower the brighter it gets right?
I have that filter set, love it!
Yay!
To my eye this is a rare exception in which NDs may not be worth the money ($80 for the set is as much as a third of the price of the actual camera)! There's a certain look to GoPro footage that has just become acceptable, high shutter speeds included. As long as the colors aren't washed, subject is in frame, and footage is smooth, it's tough for me to notice the 180 degree rule as I might on a larger sensor size AND it sounds like the filter directly inhibits one's ability to use GoPro's stabilization features. Thank you for the video :)
If I wanted to use just a polarizer do I still need to to follow the 180 rule? Or can I just slap it on with auto ?
So can you edit pro tune in post editing instead of using a filter? Is it a bigger file size?
Hey! Great videos. Been playing about with my Hero10. If I wanted to shoot 2.7k (for smaller files!) at 60fps, 1/120 shutter speed with ND filter would I get less motion blur and thus more detail around the edges when on the motorcycle compared to 4K-30-1/60 which is super blurry at speed? Or would it be just the same
Great and useful information!
Glad you liked it
What about using an ND with a third party software like gyroflow? 🤔
My action cam hasnt arrived yet, but wondering if you've tested this for 100 min and say 400 max so the camera lasts longer in the day without fiddling? I know most cams don't make the right decisions which is why you do the 100/100. Is that the case here? Also, got a 404 error on your affiliate link to the filters.
really helpful thank you
Glad it helped!
Great video thanks! As a photographer I would say this. The camera can not make a creative decision therefore the look you want to acquire may not be technically correct but will be what you want to convey in your minds eye to the viewer. Experiment with what he has explained and find your happy spot. Understanding cameras and how they work will ultimately make your video or photography better BUT it takes dedication and time. With practice you will have moments of revelation and that’s when you know you have hit another level.
You're welcome. Thanks for your input!
Love your videos man
Appreciate it!
This is a good base for understanding many things. And with theses cameras, full of tricks but full of hidden adjustments too, it sometimes is way harder than we'd like. Thank you.
Another thing you don't get quite right is the "ISO". Changing the ISO does not exactly change the camera sensitivity to light. The sensor has a fixed value (100 ISO, in this case), and raising the number in the settings shall not change this. Ever. For this level of sensitivity is set at design and factory stages. What raising the ISO number does is amplifiying the signal level (resulting from the sensor receiving light) sent from the sensor into the circuitry. It is, for light, similar to what a pre-amplifier does, for sound. When you do a voice recording or a voice capture in live conditions, for instance : you raise the number on your "Gain" or "Level" knob. Same with the ISO setting.
And, by the way, some (high-end, mostly) cameras do not state any ISO anymore, all you have is a "Gain" adjustment.
For older photographers, ISO numbers are a way of thinking. It is a reminiscence of the former "ASA" standard.
For younger photographers, using ISO is a bit of a non-sense, for this setting is in reality a gain setting. For them, it would make more sense to understand a system based on "Gain" control.
But old habits are tough to sweep away...
my action camera (not a shitty gopro) has ISO and Gain and Exposure Sensitivity adjustments. your argument is invalid.
One thing I didn't hear get mentioned is 'grain'. When ISO is increased, the more grain is introduced, and I believe that is essentially why the 100 ISO is important in this matter. One thing I've noticed since I started my photography business, camera company's are always finding ways to battle low light, ISO's get bigger every year with less grain due to the processor in the camera. I'm going from still to video but the general rules seem to apply. My business was based on school sports, COVID took care of that and I'm now switching business model.
Very true! That's why I recommend locking the ISO at 100 when using ND's and using different densities of ND to adjust exposure.
good video, but hypersmooth go nothing to do with the brightness of video or is bothered by ND filter.
Thanks for this vid. Does the gp (9 or lower) have an av output where I can connect to vr goggles? It wouldn't be to wear the goggles around but to look at the display without any other outside light to get the right settings. Some rear displays just don't show the accurate colour unless you contain the area between the eye and screen from outside light, similar to using an old slr viewfinder with the flexible eyecup. I guess an eyepiece or visor on the display would help too, if they make such items. Thanks
It does, but it's very laggy and I don't recommend it. You would need the GoPro Media Mod in order to make that work.
very cool. video, thank u
Our pleasure!
Hi, thanks for another terrific video. Would there be much harm done if you set the maximum ISO value to 200, 300, 400...? (I don't know what the settings on the GoPro 9 allow for) I understand the reason for setting both the min and max to 100, but if you're shooting in an environment where the light can change abruptly and considerably, being locked into to ISO 100 might restrict your camera's ability to record the scene properly. If you're outdoors (skiing or biking) and the lighting is constant, then that probably wouldn't be a concern.
For example, if you're hiking through the forest, you'll likely pass through sections where the canopy is very dense and dark and other areas that are open and well lit. If you restrict the camera's ISO to 100, the camera would probably not be able to record both conditions as desired, whereas, if you allowed the ISO to adjust for darker areas, the camera would be able to balance the scenes.
I'm familiar with DSLR's and how the Auto-ISO function works. Perhaps, I'm approaching this the wrong way.
Thanks.
you should be fine to set iso max to 800
@@BLGDrive Thanks so much.
Hey bro, what nd filters do you use?
TELESIN
NEEWER
REYGEAK
Freewell
Polar Pro!
New to GoPro here. Is there a base ISO on GoPro's? Want to make sure I'm using the base ISO and not the lowest ISO to get the cleanest noise in blacks.
Hi there! the base iso on the GoPro is 100 please reach out to us if you have any more questions!
I am using my GoPro to make car onboard footage while driving a rally stage. The camera is mounted generally in the middle of the car, just between the seats. I use the spot meter to focus on the road, as there is a huge difference in the lighting inside the car and outside of it.
I am wondering if using nd filter would make my footage better? During the rally camera settings its the last thing you worry about, so obviously cannot play around with the different settings to find the optimal solution for the specific moment. Also stages span anywhere between 10-30km and there are various lighting conditions - from bright fields going into a dense forest. It would be great if you can share your opinion!
I'm working through a similar issue. I'm just a dirty autocrosser (US-centric grassroots motorsport, parking lot time trials type stuff), but I've noticed the spot metering is a huge part in trying to get properly exposed video. I believe an ND filter will help, though. You'll still have to position your camera correctly and use spot metering, but my ND filters seem to reduce the bright spots of the video and makes it a little more equal with the darker parts of my car interior. I'd give it a try.
the settings he listed here are essentially what I'm using, except I may be going back to the "flat" color profile as well as using the "native" white balance setting on my gopro. I also use maxISO of 400, but I'll be experimenting with that since seeing this guy uses maxISO of 100. I'm just waiting on my polarpro ND8/16/32 3-pack to arrive. Check the video in my profile named "2022 SASCA Event 6 @ RCCC - C-Street." That was filmed using my friend's gopro (I want to say hero8 or 9) using the polar pro ND filters, with all the settings in this video and the settings I mentioned here.
@@josephcote7702 thanks Joseph! I am already using the spot meter (although my gopro 9 is having some issues with that from time to time). But I will give the ND filters a try, like you suggest.
Is there a way to monitor the EV on the screen while mounting ND's? That would be quite helpful. Thanks 👍😊
Yes, if you purchase the media mod. There is no HDMI port on the GoPro without that additional accessory.
@@forestchaput Thank you for your help!! How and what would I need to be able to monitor the EV with the media mod? Thanks again, appreciate it. 👍😊
I now have the media mod but, I still don't see how to monitor the EV? Thanks again for your tutorial.
Once you set the shutter speed to manual, you can probably leave the ISO on auto. It won’t select a higher than necessary ISO but it might save you from accidentally underexposing a shot 🤓💪
True story! Great tip 👍
@@forestchaput Thanks for the great video! Overly stuttery movement and pans is something I have to fix in my own hero 10 footage, so going to invest in a set of ND filters. Now to figure out how to carry them on my while running and filming :)
Is it true ALL action cameras like both gopros and dji osmo action cameras with stabilization built in cannot be used with nd filters with the stabilization on as with stabilization on and with a fixed lower shutter speed the stabilization creates jitters in the video rendering the video useless (the camera in built stabilization only works well at higher shutter speeds that won't create motion blur).. I heard this happens with the dji osmo action 2 and was looking at the gopro hero 11 mini instead for flying fpv drones but then I was told this issue occurs with all action cams at lower shutter speeds and the only option to use nd filters for cinematic motion blur etc is to turn off stabilization in the camera and only add stabilization in post with software (which makes the filmmaking process longer than ideal).. please tell me if this is true with all gopros or just unique to the dji osmo action 2 camera only as I need to get one asap but if it happens with all of them I'll just get the action 2 but if only unique to that one I'll get the gopro mini 11.. thank you for any feedback
Yes. I have the Hero 10 and bought an ND to control the exposure for my vlogs. But since using it, I have realised that using an ND and setting my shutter speed at 1/48 or 1/60 for 24 and 30 fos respectively, I have immense amount of jitteriness. And turning off stabilization would mean buying the latest action cam useless. ND filters and action cam stabilization don't work together. It's either or.
For those who want Hypersmooth but still want to have motion blur, you can still use an ND filter, but you have to 4x your shutter speed instead of 2x.
So if you're running on 25fps, instead of having 1/50, you will have to set it to 1/100.
Good tip! 1/100th won't give nearly as much motion blur as 1/50th though.
Greatest of all time
The ND filter is to cut the bouncing light. As you put it on, you’re then able to see the blur due to the shadows the ND has created. Meaning, it’s harder for camera sensor to notice shadows on grass during the daylight. The shadows are what’s giving or making definitions or contrast to pop
Thanks!
You're welcome!
Quick question can I use the max lens mod with one of these nd filters?
Nope. Unfortunately not.
@@forestchaput ok thanks 🙏🏼
What nd do you reach for the most? ND 32 ND 16 ND 8 or ND 4?
Probably the 16.
If I'm filming while snowboarding or dog sledding on a bright day, would you recommend a ND filter or no filter in favor of better hyper smooth?
I'd go with ND filters.
@@forestchaput Thank you!
@@t.needham6075 because he's selling them
Keeping the frame rate to 60fps and shutter speed to 1/120 of a second will help wit the stability issue.
It sure will!
It does, yea. But if you shoot everything in 60 fps your micro sd cards will fill up a whole lot faster. 60 fps also eliminates motion blur because everything will be hyper sharp instead. But it will at least be less 'choppy' than with lower fps like 24, 25 and 30. Another thing is you will (depending on camera options) have less options for higher slowmotion effects, as 120 fps will only be a 2x slowmo in this case, and not all cameras have 240 fps as options if you wanna keep shooting in 4k.
If I have to get only one ND filter, is it good to get ND 8 or 16 then leave ISO to auto?(No plans of doing long exposure that requires darker filters)
I'd go with an ND 16.
@@forestchaput Thanks! I'll get nd16 then
Correct if I am wrong, but in your setup video you recommended the ISO be set wide open: min 100 and max 1600. Now you're saying limit both to 100. I'm confused now.
If you are using an ND, put the max at 100, if not 1600.
@@forestchaput Thank you for the clarification. Truly appreciate what you do, and sharing your expertise with us.
@@forestchaput Why would you ever want your gopro iso at above max 200? I listened to what everyone on youtube said for over half a year to put iso max at ranging from 400-800 and my footage has been fucked up for 6 months and now i see you saying 1600 and thats why i had to comment and ask because that blows my mind when i had to find out the hard way. My iso max is never going above 100 again. If that is neccessairly im not going to record at all. Feel free to check the one video on my channel which is iso max 400 and it looks so disgustingly blurred and i never knew why until i tried 100 both on min and max. tldr why are everyone recomending extreme high iso's when thats the number1 key to fucked up footage. Other then that thank you for your good explenation
@@endre_navn7378 It's because you'll never get proper exposure filming in low light without allowing the camera the ability to raise the ISO. The logic to raise the ISO in low light is totally sound, but maybe the gopro makes poor decisions, I don't know. I just got mine. Did you set the shutter speed manually? What was your frame rate and shutter speed in the blurry video?
6:10 set it to 1/120 minimum to avoid weird hypersmooth shakiness xD
Would you still use an filter if you are shooting in "flat" colour setting rather than "gopro" setting?
Sure!
What filter would you recommend for low light ?
No filter at all. Maybe a different camera though. GoPro's aren't great at low-light photo or video.
@@forestchaput what would you recommend for low light?
@@rr88821 A full frame mirrorless or if budget is an issue, an older full frame DSLR.
I find that the footage gets too shaky for action sports when setup as such
It definitely can look shaky. That's usually because GoPro Hyper Smooth doesn't work well with ND filters.
@@forestchaput any way to get around that? Like a specific shutter not to go below?
This did not work for me on Go Hero 10, everything was super bright, just white. Just go with auto and let camera choose what think is best.
Auto is great most of the time. If you're looking to get the most out of your camera though you'll want to master the different settings. Here's a video on how to best use the GoPro. th-cam.com/video/ZyYf-Jw7itg/w-d-xo.html
If you select 24fps with shutter speed at 1/48 Hypersmooth sis not going to work properly. You need to set it at 1/96 in bright ligjt. In low light…turn hypersmooth off, set 24fps shutter speed at 1/48 and use a gimbal
Then wouldn't u have to edit a video with clips with different shutter speeds? That never ends well.
@@Kyoto_Ed shutter speed is not framerate. Don’t think is a problem
@@andreaturbolz3542 doesn't the frame rate have to be changed if u change the shutter speed?
@@Kyoto_Ed no. Is better to follow the 180’ rules but if you want to use gyro stabilisation you must avoid the rule
Where’s the vid on stills photo with ND filters?
It's on the list (it's a long list!)
Why is you go pro at 12% 😭 it’s giving me anxiety 😥
Hahaha, the battery life on these cameras is so short it seems like it's always at 12%!
ISO is an acronym so you can say it letter by letter.
is it just me or the example footage with nd filter looked terrible?
“Iso” or I.S.O. doesn’t really matter but ISO stands for International Standards Organization. So it is probably historically correct to say I.S.O.
Anyways good video.
I thought so too. It actually is the short-hand name for the International Organization for Standardization.
@@forestchaput You are right. Apparently it is 'ISO'. ISO is derived from the Greek 'isos', meaning equal (from the ISO website). Which is interestingly pronounced E-sohs, with some pronouncing it eye-soh.
The more you learn.
ND filter is only good for photography where you really want the soft look of the scene like waterfall or you want to like blurry time-lapse video of moving people/car of in bright scene. That is it. You should not be using ND filter for action camera if you film action scene like this. th-cam.com/video/GKz2zsij5yU/w-d-xo.html Maybe CPL filter but ND is a no no. Yes, I am aware of the 180 rule. Look at 10:20 with the ND32 on, the image looks actually worse than without ND filter. Correct exposure at one point testing and then totally over exposure! Action scenes can change light conditions quickly which can negatively affect the footage if you just use fixed settings like SS and ISO. Not sure why most people call "24fps" cinematic. Nothing cinematic about it when then image looks jittering and blurry. Let the camera do its job.
It's a great camera, but we ask to much for it do it's job in every situation. It doesn't have a light meter and variable aperture for instance, how could it? The cheapest DSLRs have those things.
I've got a full size SONY video camera with built in ND filters and a day at a white sandy beach or snow skiing has a ridiculously high shutter speed at f/2.8 without them. I always observe my shutter speed at various ND filter sizes on the Sony and from that experience, I'd at least put on an ND8 on a GoPro on sunny days. You'll still have a high shutter speed, but it's a heck of a lot better.
TBH it is kind of weird to use ND filters on action cameras because the biggest drawback is terrible stability.
Imagine this, the MAIN reason we want ND filter is to create a blurry effect in the video (or Cinematic effect, a fancy way of saying it). Unfortunately, in most of these cases, it would be a video of fast motion (like biking, racing, skiing).
While u are doing those actions without good hyper smooth, the video would look like trash(literally).
Well, of course, u can set the GoPro on a gimbal. But...why would u do that on a GoPro?? Just use iPhone or buy a sony zv1 instead.
That's why ND filter is great on Cameras, but not Action Cameras. Because action is the key here.
True! This is more for those people who are looking to use their action camera as a regular camera. Which, I agree, there are better options out there.
Ok! I get it! Fair point ! But what about if I’d like to match a footage, colours etc. for example - GoPro with my drone (where I use polar pro nd) ?? And also I heard some people leaving auto settings help them
I agree with this and I have tried ND filters mountain biking just to see how the hypersmooth handles it and it doesn't. The examples in this video look like rather smooth single track with the rider sporting the camera so the rider does a little stabilization automatically. But if the camera is mounted on the bike or the terrain is really rough. Then the footage is terrible and un-fixable. Thus, I carry two cameras. one with NDs that will be parked for a pass-by and another that I wear. Also, I don't use 24 fps. I want to have footage that had integer number of frames for different frame rate ratios. Thus, I don't like that idea that if I film in 60 fps, then convert to 24, the frames are not spaced correctly in time. The software will throw out every other frame plus an extra every 6 frames. In high speed events, this may start being noticeable.
No one says "ISO". Most people say "I" "S" "O".
Did you just say “ice oh” for iso. Someone is trolling you. It’s just I.S.O. 😂
th-cam.com/video/aeYyZvXubrM/w-d-xo.html
U can also say eeeso for iso 😂
You sure can!
The short answer is no. The only legit use case is if you are shooting in a shade with a blown out horizon or sky, even then shoot log and fix later. Otherwise, these cameras ship with outstanding color profiles to make bright sports situation look amazing. It's not 1995, and it is not an SLR. The sensor isn't big enough to handle the negatives, and HDR and color profiles are too good to make useless the traditional use of NDs.
Want blurry/smooth moving objects? Use your phone. Nobody wants to see blurry action clip.
Thanks for the input!