Man oh man! I've just started racing at 50. I race in the carolinas. I've got an old twister kart( I think) been chasing setup by myself with bath scales. 43% nose 60% cross loose as heck! Watched your video a couple of times and got a totally different perspective. Tried it last sat. Predator 375 lapped last 2 or three cars heat and the main. This kart came alive I noticed I was getting no wear on my left rear I was toting it all the way around I think. Dropped cross to 54% I could pull all the way through the corners and it showed! Thanks a ton! The Carolina unlimited all stars are coming to my track this weekend after watching your videos I'm looking forward to seeing them for sure.
This video was great. I come from Legends and it's been blowing my mind to add cross to loosen the kart up for my little Red Plate. Finally I understand, thanks.
Cross is weird because in certain situations you can increase for more rear grip or decrease for rear grip. Keep in mind that (in this case) the rear will have the most cornering grip when after weight transfer the load on the tires is even (or equally proportional to the width of the tires). Cross values are relative to the entire combination: chassis, left%, available traction, etc. Let's say static 50% left and 50% cross, when cornering the RR has disproportionally more load compared to the LR, adding cross will even the dynamic load. Opposite situation: 60% left and 80% cross, you may maintain more weight on the LR while cornering if there isn't enough grip in the track or the tries, lower cross evens the dynamic load, thus more grip. This is a massive subject, but thinking in terms of dynamic load helps me make sense of what is going on, anyway, Great content ~ Cheers!!
Yes, one of the harder topics to contemplate for sure. Thank you very much for the comment. Karts have all sorts of geometry, physics and chemicals all combined in one little fun package.
Ben and I look at it differently but come to the same results. Add more cross make the right front do more work free up the kart . Take it out less work tightens up the kart. ( High cross karts) Great videos ben
This a tuff subject to grasp. Ultimately the part of the country u race in will play a large part in what kinda numbers u want on ur setup from my experience. The different types of dirt react differently. Also sometimes ur tire program will effect how u run ur setup. I know guys that run the same chassis that I and the guys I race with run but go about things completely different but they also have a ton of success with the way they do things. Really think alot of people focus way to much on the chassis setup and not enough on there tire program. Once u have a setup that gives u a good balance of what u are looking for, you need to fine tune with ur tire.
I AGREE with 99,9 percent of what you said I have for 3 years now campaigning a 2013 Millennium Impulse kart in the Predator 375 class with much success 20 wins and finished on the podium every race over the last 2 years .. We found out this kart wants to be extremely free in corners, so we ended up with only 30% Closs and 40% nose weight . All my drivers were impressed with how well the Kart handled . In this class it's critical you don't scrub off any speed , every little turn of the wheel you drop RPM .. The motors have to be run strait out of the box from HF ,,Governor working and a 5500 RPM rule is in effect . my question is, do you think going to lighter 5" wheels and tires ie 550 and 710 rears along with 410x350 and 600 fronts could be of any benefit?
If you're running a v2 which is 2011 or a fanatic there is a big tube and small tube but anywase on the v2 or the impulse u want to have ur cross at about a 60-70 % but on the new chassis with the split bar u would want to be running about 70-72% of cross
I had a Infinity Epic with a 1 3/8 outside engine rail one time. I never did figure out what that wanted. Good chassis though. Didn’t get into the 1 1/8 stuff because I primarily run opens.
Okay so I got a question. So you're saying these new go-karts that come with basically High cross already in them, in order for you to loosen up the go-kart..... you add even more cross to the go-kart? Is that because it puts so much cross into the go-kart and I guess it would put it in so much of a bind that it's actually loosening the kart up?
You can think of it that way. But I prefer the pressure on the RR makes you tight. Getting off the RR (aka) adding cross or putting pressure on your LR gets off the RR and frees the kart up.
Depends where the push starts. Center? Increase rear stagger. Now if it rotates well center but pushes off I’d keep the same stagger and increase cross (high cross kart). Also increasing the air split in your tires will free the kart all the way through.
Increasing stagger or decreasing stagger sounds like ur issue. Once u have a decent chassis setup u really don't need to do much if any changes trackside to the chassis. U can make most changes needed at that point via air pressure and stagger changes. We try to stay around 1 3/8 stagger in the front and 7/8-1 1/8 rear stagger dependent on the track and conditions. Many people will also misdiagnosis a 4 wheel slide as a push and they are just to high on air or not soft enough on the tire.
if you go tighter your push would get worse you need to get weight off your left rear and on to your right rear I would decrease the cross . but at the track maybe try moving weight forward
I’d consider that a low cross chassis. Somewhere around 52-56 cross. If the track is super loose try on the higher end to tighten the chassis and keep the left rear planted longer.
We ran nemesis back in the day, and here in the south, we always ran highcross in them with very good success. 65-70%. But the area and track conditions u race at can make big difference in this situation. Back then around here in NC at most of the tracks we raced many if which are no longer around we needed tires punching in the high 60s to 70s.
We just started at the end of last year Bought a used deuce Chassis we set it up with 68% cross It was pushing like a dump truck on corner entry Have not heard of putting cross in it to loosen it up. Any help ? Thanks
I’m jogging my memory from when I had a deuce. Of coarse I had a open (uas) on it. I believe I had 66% cross 60% left 46%nose. 1.5” front stagger 1.25” rear stagger. Again this is with a wedge kart so I don’t know how well that will transfer.
So I purchase the kart it’s an older one went through and painted everything but put everything back to where I found it but after seeing tires on it for the first time I realized that the LF isn’t even on the ground I race action Park Easton and Champion in NY they’re both pretty flat should I take that LF and make it so it’s contacting the ground haven’t gotten it to the track yet but am supposed to race it Saturday that’s are opener in 4 days
@@kart6t3_ben I don’t no cross yet gotta take it to a buddy’s Thursday and get it scaled every ones telling me it’s a 90s chassis I send ya a pick of it let me my big question is it’s not touching at all only if I lean forward
@@joeymacali2387 that is a lot of cross. Witch is why your LF isn’t touching. Maybe in the nose area? Not near the LR that will cause even more cross to be added. For reference I had a 04 Trick that scaled 57L 55Cross 45.5 Nose one of the best karts I ever owned.
@@kart6t3_ben ok thanks still new to this but I’m hooked I have so much to learn your videos help a lot I started last year mid session on a buddy’s kart and I was in a battle to get it where I did it was a straight kart and I kept playing with it and never could get that lil extra I needed to catch 1st place I’ll try that and see what happens might have a buddy at the track see if he can help me out a lil on Learning the scales better. I do have One more question about Castle nuts or spindle nuts how tight should they be ??
This feels like, the right results, explained wrong... newer karts are thicker pipe thinner wall, and flex more.... when you enter the corner, the chassis flexes, so much, it lets the left rear come off the ground.... loose, add cross... get the left rear back on the ground.
Not really talking 1 1/8” chassis in general. But those were there late 90s early 2000s (until the mini con). But yes the flex is def something to consider.
a lot of talk my friend.. why don't you help everyone digest it by breaking your presentation into segments instead of all melted together... 1st... start with a definition of Cross and not one that takes a paragraph. quick bursts like the mind absorbs makes for quality learning. I think you have 2-3 videos of material in this one only. thanks for taking the time to produce the content
I’ll reserve my normal sarcastic response today for one that says this a very nuanced topic. I reference cross a lot of my other videos. Almost every adjustment on the kart effects cross in someway or another. Appreciate you watching.
Love seeing you grow this channel! Good stuff, man 🤜
Man oh man! I've just started racing at 50. I race in the carolinas. I've got an old twister kart( I think) been chasing setup by myself with bath scales. 43% nose 60% cross loose as heck! Watched your video a couple of times and got a totally different perspective. Tried it last sat. Predator 375 lapped last 2 or three cars heat and the main. This kart came alive I noticed I was getting no wear on my left rear I was toting it all the way around I think. Dropped cross to 54% I could pull all the way through the corners and it showed! Thanks a ton! The Carolina unlimited all stars are coming to my track this weekend after watching your videos I'm looking forward to seeing them for sure.
When I say "old" twister I mean like 98 or older. Caster pill front end.
Thank you very much, I appreciate you watching my videos. Glad you got it running better.
What is ur stagger and air pressure
This video was great. I come from Legends and it's been blowing my mind to add cross to loosen the kart up for my little Red Plate. Finally I understand, thanks.
Your very welcome. If anything I hoped that maybe it helps look at things in a different way. Not just run 69 cross like I’ve heard before.
Great video . We ran the panoz pro also back in 2005ish or 06. Keep the videos coming
Thank you
cool video
Thanks 🙏
Cross is weird because in certain situations you can increase for more rear grip or decrease for rear grip. Keep in mind that (in this case) the rear will have the most cornering grip when after weight transfer the load on the tires is even (or equally proportional to the width of the tires). Cross values are relative to the entire combination: chassis, left%, available traction, etc. Let's say static 50% left and 50% cross, when cornering the RR has disproportionally more load compared to the LR, adding cross will even the dynamic load. Opposite situation: 60% left and 80% cross, you may maintain more weight on the LR while cornering if there isn't enough grip in the track or the tries, lower cross evens the dynamic load, thus more grip. This is a massive subject, but thinking in terms of dynamic load helps me make sense of what is going on, anyway, Great content ~ Cheers!!
Yes, one of the harder topics to contemplate for sure. Thank you very much for the comment. Karts have all sorts of geometry, physics and chemicals all combined in one little fun package.
We race .25 midgets.. imagine adding shocks and coils to the equation!
Thanks
Your welcome
Ben and I look at it differently but come to the same results. Add more cross make the right front do more work free up the kart . Take it out less work tightens up the kart. ( High cross karts)
Great videos ben
Great point Tom. 👍
another good video
Thanks for the video! Subbed
Thank you!
This a tuff subject to grasp. Ultimately the part of the country u race in will play a large part in what kinda numbers u want on ur setup from my experience. The different types of dirt react differently. Also sometimes ur tire program will effect how u run ur setup. I know guys that run the same chassis that I and the guys I race with run but go about things completely different but they also have a ton of success with the way they do things. Really think alot of people focus way to much on the chassis setup and not enough on there tire program. Once u have a setup that gives u a good balance of what u are looking for, you need to fine tune with ur tire.
Absolutely, Tires are super important but if u nail the setup and tires your going to be ahead of one who just hits on tires.
I AGREE with 99,9 percent of what you said I have for 3 years now campaigning a 2013 Millennium Impulse kart in the Predator 375 class with much success 20 wins and finished on the podium every race over the last 2 years .. We found out this kart wants to be extremely free in corners, so we ended up with only 30% Closs and 40% nose weight . All my drivers were impressed with how well the Kart handled . In this class it's critical you don't scrub off any speed , every little turn of the wheel you drop RPM .. The motors have to be run strait out of the box from HF ,,Governor working and a 5500 RPM rule is in effect . my question is, do you think going to lighter 5" wheels and tires ie 550 and 710 rears along with 410x350 and 600 fronts could be of any benefit?
I don’t have any experience with 5” wheels to know the benefits or disadvantages. They might be lighter though. Good question.
If you're running a v2 which is 2011 or a fanatic there is a big tube and small tube but anywase on the v2 or the impulse u want to have ur cross at about a 60-70 % but on the new chassis with the split bar u would want to be running about 70-72% of cross
I had a Infinity Epic with a 1 3/8 outside engine rail one time. I never did figure out what that wanted. Good chassis though. Didn’t get into the 1 1/8 stuff because I primarily run opens.
Okay so I got a question. So you're saying these new go-karts that come with basically High cross already in them, in order for you to loosen up the go-kart..... you add even more cross to the go-kart? Is that because it puts so much cross into the go-kart and I guess it would put it in so much of a bind that it's actually loosening the kart up?
You can think of it that way. But I prefer the pressure on the RR makes you tight. Getting off the RR (aka) adding cross or putting pressure on your LR gets off the RR and frees the kart up.
Dude make that video
How about some ways when you're at the track on how to tighten up a kart or get rid of a push?
Depends where the push starts. Center? Increase rear stagger. Now if it rotates well center but pushes off I’d keep the same stagger and increase cross (high cross kart). Also increasing the air split in your tires will free the kart all the way through.
Increasing stagger or decreasing stagger sounds like ur issue. Once u have a decent chassis setup u really don't need to do much if any changes trackside to the chassis. U can make most changes needed at that point via air pressure and stagger changes. We try to stay around 1 3/8 stagger in the front and 7/8-1 1/8 rear stagger dependent on the track and conditions. Many people will also misdiagnosis a 4 wheel slide as a push and they are just to high on air or not soft enough on the tire.
if you go tighter your push would get worse you need to get weight off your left rear and on to your right rear I would decrease the cross . but at the track maybe try moving weight forward
What would a 2011 charger magnum be concidered slip joint chassis high or low cross?
I’d consider that a high cross chassis.
So im in a 2003 Nemesis, what should be my ballpark for cross ?? Im on small bullrings Oswego, Moose mtn etc.
I’d consider that a low cross chassis. Somewhere around 52-56 cross. If the track is super loose try on the higher end to tighten the chassis and keep the left rear planted longer.
We ran nemesis back in the day, and here in the south, we always ran highcross in them with very good success. 65-70%. But the area and track conditions u race at can make big difference in this situation. Back then around here in NC at most of the tracks we raced many if which are no longer around we needed tires punching in the high 60s to 70s.
We just started at the end of last year Bought a used deuce Chassis we set it up with 68% cross It was pushing like a dump truck on corner entry Have not heard of putting cross in it to loosen it up. Any help ? Thanks
I’m jogging my memory from when I had a deuce. Of coarse I had a open (uas) on it. I believe I had 66% cross 60% left 46%nose. 1.5” front stagger 1.25” rear stagger. Again this is with a wedge kart so I don’t know how well that will transfer.
So I purchase the kart it’s an older one went through and painted everything but put everything back to where I found it but after seeing tires on it for the first time I realized that the LF isn’t even on the ground I race action Park Easton and Champion in NY they’re both pretty flat should I take that LF and make it so it’s contacting the ground haven’t gotten it to the track yet but am supposed to race it Saturday that’s are opener in 4 days
Depends how old. Higher cross chassis the left front is barely in contact. Any idea of front and rear stagger?
@@kart6t3_ben I don’t no cross yet gotta take it to a buddy’s Thursday and get it scaled every ones telling me it’s a 90s chassis I send ya a pick of it let me my big question is it’s not touching at all only if I lean forward
@@kart6t3_ben so I put it on the scale today I have a 77%cross and I need to add I’m 10 pounds light whare would be a good place to add it
@@joeymacali2387 that is a lot of cross. Witch is why your LF isn’t touching. Maybe in the nose area? Not near the LR that will cause even more cross to be added. For reference I had a 04 Trick that scaled 57L 55Cross 45.5 Nose one of the best karts I ever owned.
@@kart6t3_ben ok thanks still new to this but I’m hooked I have so much to learn your videos help a lot I started last year mid session on a buddy’s kart and I was in a battle to get it where I did it was a straight kart and I kept playing with it and never could get that lil extra I needed to catch 1st place I’ll try that and see what happens might have a buddy at the track see if he can help me out a lil on Learning the scales better. I do have One more question about Castle nuts or spindle nuts how tight should they be ??
Cyotie thrasher that's what I run in predator class
I have a soft spot for those karts.
This feels like, the right results, explained wrong... newer karts are thicker pipe thinner wall, and flex more.... when you enter the corner, the chassis flexes, so much, it lets the left rear come off the ground.... loose, add cross... get the left rear back on the ground.
Not really talking 1 1/8” chassis in general. But those were there late 90s early 2000s (until the mini con). But yes the flex is def something to consider.
a lot of talk my friend.. why don't you help everyone digest it by breaking your presentation into segments instead of all melted together... 1st... start with a definition of Cross and not one that takes a paragraph. quick bursts like the mind absorbs makes for quality learning. I think you have 2-3 videos of material in this one only. thanks for taking the time to produce the content
I’ll reserve my normal sarcastic response today for one that says this a very nuanced topic. I reference cross a lot of my other videos. Almost every adjustment on the kart effects cross in someway or another. Appreciate you watching.