Nastf is suppose to be a non profit! I’m a Licensed Locksmith for over 25 years, I pay $250 a year for my Locksmith license I had a background check. How and why can a non government organization make their own laws? Blackmail fir profit! Class action lawsuits is what I see coming, greed has consequences!
I predict lawsuits when this kicks in. Just read up on right to repair laws in your state. Im in California i read ours. Im actually not worried. I also know there is something coming up in congress also. If i want to add a key or i have immobilizer problems in my car im gonna fix it myself. Im not paying. If i cant fix it because of this. Ill put a lawsuit myself. F it.
I’m a Licensed Locksmith, I went through a background check I pay $250 a yr for my License and these boxes want more? You are 100% right Brother “ right to repair laws trump these bozos” I’m in California also. Be nice to talk to an intelligent Brother like you who thinks the same and won’t be bullied by blackmailing criminals! Nastf They are not a government organization, only the government can legally blackmail and steal from the people!
my biggest complaint is someone else telling me what I can and can't do. I understand the insurance and other items to protect the consumer to ensure the person doing the work has the knowledge and abilities to to the work properly. But as usual society spend 95% of its energy to stop 5% of the problem. I'll be frank to make my point. I have a felony conviction, my fault no one to blame for this issue except myself. but because of one bad choice 20 years ago I will never be allowed to to any of this and there will be many many many others just like me. My conviction had nothing to do with fraud or theft or anything that you could possibly link being a "risk" to vehicle lock smithing. So here I am trying to make a living being force out of my career by other people. that's what irritates me. If they(the government, society, NASTF) would allow people to have a chance I wouldn't be so upset about it but for me, and a lot of other people, its just another way to keep people from earning and good honest living. I know I'm speaking about a small portion of people but this needs to be put out there.
@@SuperMarioDiagnostics @crasher88 I'm super interested to hear what NASTF says about the background check requirement - if it turns out they have a look-back limit of some number of years, or are concerned primarily with certain offenses, and can publish guidance on that, it would help to eliminate some concern about the program. In some places that are governed by locksmith licensing this is a matter of law, but in others NASTF might be putting up barriers that may be unfair or even abused.
I do module programming part time and have been unable to get business insurance (which is required by NASTF). Can’t even get insurance brokers to return my call once they find out I do not have a brick-and-mortar facility and so this during my evenings and weekends. There is no agency that can prevent automotive theft by criminals. NONE!
@@pauldavis8716how would that work? Register my tools to his business? Why not have nastf accept my application without the insurance? I'll pay the fees and submit all my information, I'm all legal part-time home business .
CANNOT get insurance? Is this common for chiptuners in particular, you do not want to PAY for insurance, or something else have not considered? @@jorgemat8080
What about the people who want to learn how to work on immobilizers and keys? How about when a mobile mechanic wants to swap a PCM? Cars manufacturers are just making it more and more complicated!
Dealer only...the public learning about immobilizers and keys, not allowed. It's a protectionist position where club members who pay their dues and fees are the only ones that can play.
@@soeren72 Mario that’s how you learned you use your intelligence which I can see in your videos and you started out learning on your own. This makes it more difficult for that. Not everybody wants to have a job working in a shop getting crappy pay working their way up because the owner has real reasons not to pay you or move you up! It’s easier just to go to school on your own and learn as you go this slows that down for some people. You said yourself you learned from scratch
@soeren72 easy to say in a comment on social media. I’m realistic about our current situation What’s really giving up is thinking you can just go up to the oe and force them to hand you access to the very intellectual property that keeps them in business without some kind of organization Who’s really given up?
Yes i did start from scratch and you’re also hearing it from me first, this is what it’s going to take to get access. That’s why i got my vsp. Its already happening, there’s no stopping it, unless a miracle happens
Yes im in long island new york im a mobile diagnostic/programming tech I just got my VSP credentials was not hard at all just basic general liability with buisness and good to go good to have any way you only need locksmith license if you in ne york city and or applying as a locksmith on Application they have different jobs titles to choose from Mobile tech repair shop locksmith ETC you choose what you field you in
@@SuperMarioDiagnostics As you stated if the OE determines that PCM is part of the security function by immobilizing the ignition system. Then I no longer have the right or the ability to repair my own vehicle.
For the DIY Guys and girls, be sure not to buy a European car, or any late model vehicle. You will need VSP to program a new taillight on an F150 soon enough.... already may be in place on the lightening.... and the taillight assembly is $4000.00+. People more and more are seeking out older LEXII and other vehicles that are in excellent condition.
@@billziegmond4943 let's hope there will be an action sue against this. I know I will join ASAP that sue. This is taking away our right to work. Professional locksmith licensed bricks a bcm and sends car to dealer, how is a vsp and insurance going to stop a locksmith from turning around and saying pay me a can't do it and moves on. I just came into a situation like that and was able to fix the issue . In reality a locksmith is not a tech or a mechanic or a diagnostician. They only know keys period. Everything else is people like you and me and we getting that taken away and giving it to locksmith that don't know turd from a bcm/ecm etc.
The biggest thing that bothers me about this is the fact that a criminal record can disallow your participation. One of the only ways for some people who have a record to enjoy success after serving their sentence is to start and run their own business. Putting them out of business just because they once upon a time did something against the law is frankly horrendous, and our society in the US already does a lot to punish folks in that position. IMO there should be a published statute of limitations that governs the background check process, limiting it to time and certain types of offenses. If that's published somewhere already, I couldn't find it anywhere in their documentation.
That’s not what happens actually. As i stated in the video, talk to them. Reach out to them. Before closing the door on this. Not reaching out to them because you’ve concluded that you’re disqualified would be a mistake
@@SuperMarioDiagnosticsI don’t think an insurance company will bond someone with a felony conviction on their record. I’m not 100% sure but I do believe this is the case.
@@djosbun it all depends on what the felony is, grand theft auto, it's a safe bet you won't get a LSID. Writing a bad check 30 years ago, you probably got a chance. Its definitely worth trying
Looks like laws are gonna have to force OEMS to allow owners who buy vehicles to have the right to have FULL ACCESS to all the systems on their vehicles. If I buy it, I should have a way to work on it.
OEMs are using the auto theft prevention angle of this to supercede any right to repair laws/lobbying. Reduce auto theft or allow people to fix their own vehicles, what is a politician to decide?
I was about to start with Immo but now it will be hard to practice before I get serious with the business. I don't have a million dollar insurance so automatic disqualification for the application lol. I think the bread should be shared and this is an insensitive to see how much they can do before we say enough.
It’s really sad how self righteous techs have become. Instead of worrying about the “bottom feeders” and people who you think are below you, they should take a page from Eric Os book. Do the best job YOU can do,focus on your quality and don’t be so obviously threatened by people you feel are beneath you. I feel we have devolved to a point where everyone wants something “fixed” with more regulation to eliminate competition instead of upping your own game and using the poor customer as a reason.
The problem is bottom feeders who call themselves professionals give professionals a bad name. I see this weekly. Customers call the cheapest guy to make a lost key. He uses the cheapest aftermarket crap UHS sells and after a couple months it stops working. They call him back and he won't take care of it. I charge 3 times what he does but I use OEM fobs and warranty our work. If that makes me self righteous so be it. I sleep well at night knowing I use the best equipment and parts to give people premium service and I charge accordingly.
That’s a fine and dandy if you have no competition in your area. But when you have others who have very little overhead charging 20 dollars for a key, when you on the other hand, have a legit business and overhead and charge what you need to stay profitable, why would a customer choose you? And when things go wrong, that 20 key guy bails and leaves the customer screwed, and with a deteriorating outlook on our industry. Sure i could close my eyes on what’s going on around me and only worry about myself, but that’s a bit selfish and short sighted. The regulation and its effect on the market is a byproduct of the regulation No one proposed this regulation as a way to cut competition, it’s only the effect. This regulation is the only way the OE’s will permit the aftermarket access to security related functions. If they had their way, the aftermarket would have no access at all. Maybe you should learn what’s really going on before concluding that this is something other than what it actually is.
Man I'm with you on this I am big on oem the quality can not be matched.I have customers that ask for a reduced rate and my answer is always no.Dont know if this means anything to you I am rite there with you on this.
@@richarman4440 I never give discounts. The is what the price is. I honestly can't recall anyone turning us down because I didn't reduce the price. They ask the price up front and decline but not after being denied a discount. If they are really annoying I am kind of a jerk about it and offer them a discount with an ask. I tell them I may be able to do the job for their price or even free. It's funny because their tone changes and not in a happy way. I tell them to call my bank. If they can persuade my bank to reduce my mortgage by the amount of discount they seek I will be happy to charge them accordingly. None of them have ever tried. :) I'm not desperate for their work. We are busy enough. If you project that attitude it also lets them know you have confidence in what you do. If people give discounts they won't be respected as your initial price wasn't real to begin with.
This will just be a minor inconvenience for thieves and will steadily encompass more and more parts of the car it’s right there in black and white “whatever the manufacturer deems security related”.
I don't think that will curb the auto theft. They will still grab em and strip em. I think it's a good idea just makes it a little more of a pain to access your immo functions.
Thanks for taking the time to explain and for taking the mystery out of this topic and the process to obtain the VSP. I believe it's about money, but that's business, and it weeds out those who what to make auto repair friendly and affordable, with all the education, training and equipment we need to properly fix a car we need to be paid properly for that and this will separate those who keep up from those who don't.
In my state a locksmith license is required. I tried to get my locksmith license several years ago just so I had it. To get a locksmith license you have to apprentice for 3 years in the industry. Automotive industry is not eligible to be considered as a acceptable apprenticeship. we are a legit shop fully insured. Also what do you do for a shop that the techs all have there own scanners. can they all use the same login for the business?
What’s complicated about a vetting process? The only thing that’s complicated is how people are making it out to be. And the money paid to nastf barely covers the application processing. Why not learn more about it rather than jumping to conclusions?
Mario, I absolutely respect you friend and know you are a leader in your field. That said, taking the ability to service or repair something you own is by default giving up one’s right of ownership. Regardless of the “skill” of the one wanting to repair, the owner should have the right to attempt or choose who attempts to fix their product. And thinking this will just stop with “security” is laughable. In 10 years they will demand only licensed people take off an oil drain plug.
If it were up to the OE’s, we’d have zero access. Nothing. Nastf are the people who are interceding on behalf of the aftermarket. Compromises have to be made sometimes just to get access
I am pleased you were brave enough to take on this topic including the suggestion for more conversation regarding access to security functions in scantools. I believe there are several perspectives on this issue. Vehicle owners and insurance companies do not want their vehicles stolen, a stolen vehicle is expensive to repair. Repair shops do not want another "middle man" interfering with their ability to repair vehicles. Thieves still want to be able to steal vehicles.
The question is which aftermarket scan tool manufacturers will comply with this in which of them will not? I would assume the large ones such as Autel will comply, but smaller companies such as Topdon might not ?
I need help getting through the sign up process and hardware/software requirements. I work for a government fleet department and a lot of the requirements I can't get straight answers from NASTF. Is there a different membership process for government entities and is there any actual videos of someone using the software and hardware in action (tutorial)?
It's really none of their business if I have insurance or not or a brick and mortar! A mobile mechanic doesn't need either one which is why many are mobile! It's actually putting people out of a job if they're limited on funds and trying to make a living. Nothing good about this at all. It's not even fair to customers.
@SuperMarioDiagnostics at what cost, though? Now people can get a blade honda key for around 200 after this takes effect I would say that same key from a 2006 honda accord will run to around 400 and owner can always go to the dealer and pay 500 so I don't see how the owner of the car can keep cost down. As cost will be passed down to the owner regardless. I totally agree with having nastf but there are other ways that this could of been done not close small shops and bodyshops down or raise their already high prices just to make ends meet.
@@jorgemat8080I see patterns with many, not all that we make lost keys for. These people are just not responsible. They lose a key but don't get a spare made while they still have one. They just do a lot of dumb stuff. We have repeat lockout customers also. Patterns. People go through life and don't pay attention or do things the right way. I love these people BTW. Everyday I get calls for people who "think" they locked the keys in the car. I warn them before we go out in my experience unless you know the keys are locked in 19 out of 20 times the keys aren't going to be there. I lose calls this way but I encourage them to keep looking. I also ask them if they have a spare key anywhere else in the world as it will be cheaper to next day the key than have us come out. People thank me even call me back to tell me because I encouraged them to keep looking they found them elsewhere. We have a few lockouts a week that turn into a lost key as well. You name we have seen and done it. Call a plumber and or an electrician. Do you know how much they charge? We are still seen by some as backyard hacks. I am trying to change that image.
Locksmiths help DIYers, Body Shops and Dealerships all the time... but you wanna go online, and find a free alternative? That is unrealistic. I do a lot of lock related work FOR repair shops and dealers, so they do not make investments that become obsolete every two years. Just ask a dealer who has a pile of OEM required key machines that time has passed by. By doing a fair volume, I can offset all that investment, and the dealer or repair shop can focus on the overall repairs. It is mutually beneficial, and the car owner gets better results, such as matched key locks, something most repair shops will not do, for lack of the investment in 30-100 service kits, such as I have.
What the insurance cost for locksmith ? I have a 1 million liability 150k garage keepers for my towing setup and is around 15k a year for 1 truck ! Is it similar or cheaper
Hey Mario. We had something similar happen in Australia 2 years ago. I call it a cash grab by the government! They decided that the small shops should be entitled to carry out everything a main dealer can and there would be a new company taking control of this AASRA. It costs you $380 aud plus a police check. If you need EV information as well it’s another $50 aud. Now, I’m all for this to give everyone the same access, but I’m not happy that even working in a main dealer you can not access this information like EV immobiliser radio codes variant coding etc without having this AASRA account! I don’t know how you feel about it but in my honest opinion, if you work in a dealer you should not have to pay to get the information to fix the dealer vehicles, and as you said, if Joe blow has access to write to a module, then he can also crash a module at the same time and when the vehicle comes to the dealer to get diagnosed, you can guarantee that shop is not going to tell you exactly what they have done!
Mines around $500 per year for $1,000,000 worth of coverage. Been doing this since the 80's and never had a claim. If I or one of my guys break something I take care of it. I can count on one hand with fingers left over the amount of times that has happened. I have personally only broke 1 window and my luck it was on a Mercedes. No big deal I broke it paid to have it fixed.
I do not own the business I work for, would NASTF accept my employers general liability insurance? I've looked at VSP credentials before and could not make a business case for it, same with J2534. I can't afford it as a W2 employee along with all my other costs, there isn't a ROI case for me. I couldn't imagine how many modules I'd need to program to pay off a Jbox and laptop.
The employer can add you on as an additional user for a fee. With that said my guys are W2 employee's and one of my guys has his own account because I let him do side work.
In NJ I can get a VSP as a diagnostic shop but I cant get key codes because I don't have an Actual Locksmith license. If I fill out a D1 to get a key code I can get shut down. Do you know what I can do on the aftermarket scan tools with out risking getting shutdown.
@@SuperMarioDiagnostics That's not really an option in NJ, You need either 3 years hands on experience with at least 20 hours a week FULL time locksmith or a two year apprentice program. That's besides the tests. I don't really have the money to close my business for 2 or 3 years.
Good luck on the test lol. It is not on JUST locksmithing. The business and law section is insane. It covers contractual law, acts, bills and things you wouldn't expect. The entire test is put together by people who are in the business, and they try hard to keep others out of their money trough. I recall being asked FIRE ALARM questions regarding conduit and other things. Its a LOCKSMITH test, not a Fire alarm test. Smh. I found it very difficult but made it after a second attempt.
I like your work. If I was still in NJ I would take care of you. I would try to find a locksmith who you can barter with. Maybe work on his fleet, help him out with issues and he can add you on to his account. There are ways to do this.
Did you even read the qualifications? You are more than half way there with a business license. I had a business license when I was 20 years old in the 80's. Still have the same license and a crew working for me. This isn't rocket science. The liability is about $500 per year and we are mobile, no shop.
You go back to your state gov website..... in Colorado it is the Secretary of State section.... you look up your own business entity, and there will be a status link to print a certificate... otherwise call your state governing body, and request how to obtain.... Good standing means you registered the business properly, and paid the annual fee. It is as relevant to the quality of your work as the BBB is. Somewhat meaningless bureaucracy, since I already have a sales tax license, local and state. The point is not to get hung up on terms and preconceptions.... research, learn....navigate the system.
I was told by a smart box rep that they want nothing to do with NASTF. I'll be switching to them. It's 1600 bucks but I'd rather pay than be forced to jump through NASTF hoops.
I have the first gen Smartbox with the smaller screen. It's sitting on my office floor. I have never actually used it. One of my guys used it. Said he liked it but he was older and the screen was too small for him. I know they have great customer service. I get an invoice every month from them because it's token based and updates are free. The invoice every month says $0.00 and you keep your CC on file with them. We have 2 Advanced Diagnostics Smart Pro's. If I had to choose one programmer it would be that one. IMHO they are the best. Is that the first one I grab? Nope. It's the Autel 508. I don't have to use tokens and the Smart Pro case is basically a suitcase for 4 latches. lol
My personal issue is the fact that my biz is licensed and insured. My state is super strict and already does fingerprinting and background checks, requires continuous training and license renewals all of which cost. So having to shell out over $400 is ridiculous. Maybe in other states without all the hoops should be expected to be vetted, not the legitimate entities who were already thoroughly probed.
Depending on the car, that's less than we charge for 1 key. Our cheapest key is $250 and we go up from there. We have all the same state kaka you do. Stop being afraid to charge your worth. That's the biggest issue I see. I'm not in competition with $100 Chuck in a truck. He can have those customers all day I don't want them. I'm not BSing. We are very busy and I turn more calls down in a week than the hacks do in a month. Change your mindset.
After rambling for a little bit, I actually been meaning to get it anyway. Namely for GM keycodes when that once in a while job comes where it would be convenient. Code brokers are crazy expensive for GM. I am happy for you turning down jobs and being busy. Around here, there's a good 6 to 8 ads that outspend me and nab peoples attention first. This effects my pricing. Google had me on video chat to prove licensing and a ton of other things but then they allow a place to advertise with a home improvement contractors license lmao
@@flipc6081I forgot the years but the code brokers don't have newer codes. The fees are built into my pricing. If the fees go up so does my pricing. Don't be afraid to charge what you are worth with a nice profit.
I don't even advertise. We run 80 to 150 calls per week. Just lockouts and lost keys. I don't do ignition work or lock repair any more. Too busy to be tied up. We get in and out onto the next one.
The car radio analogy doesn't work... I have the code for my own radio, I don't have to call anyone to unlock my radio. Also, my question is... where do we stop? Because this is a larger issue and it affects other products, not only cars. This has nothing to do with security, it's a power/money grab from the OE, otherwise you wouldn't need a business for this. Every DIYer should be able to show an id and get access to any function. This is really f-ed up. The right to repair laws need amended if they don't include every aspect of a vehicle.
First of all congratulations on getting you VSP id you're a blessed man👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻 This topic is controversial but crucial, I mean watching you guy's on TH-cam overcoming numerous challenges fuels our desires to follow the same lead, & time to time we keep investing in new tools to overcome job requirements. I can give many examples where I couldn't make a dealer key due to no access & had to buy several modules (with the key) from a junkyard just to start the vehicle I mean what nonsense is this, not every car on the street gets stolen & the one's that hit the junkyard are also there due to some reason, & maybe tomorrow the OEM's will come up with an idea/legislation that forces junkyards to use a specific tool to corrupt softwares on all the modules on a vehicle so they cannot be configured to a different vin, who knows🤔 Anyways this is a huge issue, & it seems like gone are the day's where small shops could survive, & now only dealerships will have the access & right to fix a car, & as far as aftermarket tooling goes we should stop buying bcuz sooner or later these tools will become useless & our hard earned money will not be recovered Just sharing my opinion😅😅😅
What if you can't Lishi it? We don't Lishi BTW. We pay for codes if the lock isn't easy to take out because time is money and we pass that on to the customer. You will need a machine to cut the key. The machine alone is years worth of NASTF fees. If you are running an actual business in order to this correctly for most vehicles you already need an NASTF account. About steel keys. We get calls for Honda's almost daily. I tell customers Honda makes great cars with crappy locks. They have known for 20 years their wafers suck but they still continue to use them. I hope they never stop. :)
Thanks for sharing this. I seen a video the other day on how easy it was to steal land rovers with a tool in less than a min. Theft is so bad in the UK that people can't get insurance anywhere. I knew something like this was coming. I won't be caught with my pants down, time to get a Lic.
He Mario I have a mobile diagnostic and repair business and I sometimes have to program modules and Key. I have everything on the list except a locksmith license. Is that no a requirement to obtain NASTF (VSP) LICENSE? or your state does not require it or you have locksmith licenses? Thank you
You only need a locksmith license if your state or city requires you to have one if your “originating” keys- as in getting customer owned information from the manufacturer, like key codes, to cut keys. If you are only doing Immobilizer work and copying keys, then you don’t need a license from your city or state to fulfill NASTF requirements. That is straight from Donny Seyfer at NASTF.
@@SuperMarioDiagnosticsMy understanding was that MDC was getting rid of the locksmith license for the automotive sector? When I did my renewals this month, I didn’t need a locksmith license, and I renewed my VSP?
@@lynxstarautomotive208 that’s what i heard as well but i didn’t see any documentation on it. I was able to get my vsp without getting the Miami dade locksmith. But everything else actually forced me to get it lol since my insurance is for a locksmith business
@@SuperMarioDiagnosticsHmm interesting. From what I have been able to gather with this new process, VSP’s are now viewed as equals in the eyes of the manufacturer and NASTF. No more I’m a VSP, but not a locksmith. I was looking into getting my locksmith license last year, and department of consumer affairs told me that automotive locksmith was probably not going to be recognized as business in the eyes of the county. They told me to hold off until further notice. I have garage keepers with the NASTF requirements, and it’s not too bad cost for Miami-Dade. Allows me to get my transporter tag as well. Which is a big help servicing these dealer cars, many of which don’t even have titles officially yet. However, I really only got my VSP for Mercedes TRP parts.
Reminds me of Angie's List . All the sudden this list is the authority on home repairs and if your not on the list your no good. How did anyone ever make a choice with it......
@@SuperMarioDiagnostics I do all my own car work and this has me pretty pissed actually. The radio argument is not a good one, since you can lose your keys, but you can't just 'lose' your radio.
@@SuperMarioDiagnostics I don't think that's a good take, to be honest. Why stop DIYers from servicing their own car, even if that includes keys? What's to say that some guy wants to get into repairing cars and to learn buys a scantool - we're removing the ability to experiment, to learn, to absorb the knowledge organically. I'm not arguing that this program isn't good in the long run, but preventing people from participating because they're not a business is not conducive to the industry as a whole.
@@SuperMarioDiagnostics I should not be required to have a business license to work on my own cars. Manufactured are required to make all service information available to the general public. This is just another greedy attempt to hinder our right to service my cars. I must disagree with your assessment that this is a good thing.
This is a case of "You will own nothing and like it!" Full stop. From AEI on radio theft... "it’s a crime that plagued car owners throughout the 1990s. But according to the FBI’s latest crime report, car stereo thefts have fallen by more than half over the past 15 years, from more than a million in 1994 to just over 400,000, even as car theft rates have remained high." Do you notice the last part of the last sentence? Over the last ~20 years, we've see the results of manufacture 'safety' interjection, it rarely ends well for those who purchased the product.
I saw the post/email yesterday morning. It has become the topic of the day for sure. But thanks for your video, it does help to clarify things a bit. I mean, if both the auto manufacturers and tool makers are on board (I don't see that they have a choice), then there is really very little anyone can do to go around SDRM. To the people saying that this will not reduce car theft, then what will? They still can use tow equipment but the VSP program is most definitely a step back. I've had cars stolen from me twice. I know how it feels. Something has to be done. I don't like all of the implications the program brings about, but what other choice is there?
I am a VSP technician since 2015, so I can buy TRP parts from MB, now starting this year MB won't allowing remote programming. This becomes big problem since Bluelink can't help us anymore. MARIO, do you have Xentry and program MB or you send to the dealer. Thanks
It makes sense there should be a pin to gain access to the security like if you're a mechanic know anybody can gain access if you a mechanic or locksmith just make a account like you pay for programming ECMs
Mario, This is an awesome video. NASTF is to the Immobilizer crowd what ASE is to the Automotive repair crowd. NASTF is simply a regulatory body created from within the automotive industry to keep the regulatory process within the automotive industry, to keep the government out. If the government gets involved it truly would become a giant mess. ASE is a self regulating body from within the automotive industry to keep automotive certification out of government hands. It keeps things simple and streamlined. This is one of your best videos. I agree with you 100%. This regulation by NASTF needs to be done to keep the professionals in, and non-professionals out. Perhaps you could please share with us how you went about getting your insurance for NASTF approval, who you got it with and how much it cost, if you wouldn’t mind.
Not exactly. NASTF came to be after many of us were sick and tired of getting shafted by the OEM’s. It’s a group of individuals who banned together to voice the industry as a collective. The problem is, NASTF hasn’t done as good of a job as we deserve. I could be wrong, but that seems to be the impression I got at one of their board meetings. They let the OEM and government bully them.
@@lynxstarautomotive208 Better them get bullied than us. I haven’t been to any of the meetings between them and the Manufacturers, but the manufacturers have a lot more money and resources to fight back than NASTF does. So, I can’t imagine those meetings being friendly. At least somebody is there doing something.
@@Barnehy1I disagree, see once upon a time NASTF actually did a decent job fending for the independent. In 2001 they actually claimed a victory on how and what data could be accessed via the OBD port. They voiced their concern to governing authorities, and said authorities agreed, and manufacturers had to cut the shenanigans. See what was happening was OEM’s found a way to only get emissions data relevant modules to comm on the OBD 2 port. The other modules could only be accessed with proprietary tooling *OEM’s did NOT offer to the aftermarket* . Mercedes was a big offender here. Some early 2000’s MB saw the 38 pin connector deleted, and if you connect via the OBD2 port, all you can comm with is the ECU and TCU. You needed the MB DAS with the multiplexer to properly communicate with the entire vehicle. This posed a lot of issues, especially to law enforcement and related agencies that needed access to crash data. The cars had to be shipped to the dealers, and it was a huge cluster. NASTF stepped up to bat, and brought these concerns to light. Eventually, the government said that the OBD2 port MUST be the source of communication for the entire vehicle. Fast forward to present day, we are starting to see the same hurdles and roadblocks. Except the NASTF is more like 🤷♂️ “just be thankful we have access period.” It’s that take it leave it mentality, and it’s because they have gotten too cozy with the manufacturers.
I'm licensed, bonded and insured in Texas and I will stop running automotive calls in 2025. I will move my company more towards commercial and residential! After 35 years, I've had enough.
Most everyone of us who already has NASTF will be ok with it, I think. I completely agree with you from the comments around @4:00, thats exactly how it goes down with a lot of hacks out there. The older days you had to have a $10K + tool to be able to do keys decently so there wasnt so many hacks. Once so many cheap tools started coming around then things started getting so much worse.
Ok I fave full ase certs but I don’t feel like I’m confident enough to work on security system. Here the the biggest question why would consumers trust you (or me or anyone) over the the dealer?
@@patrickgroover8403 Consumers call locksmiths all day. My company isn't cheap but we are cheaper than the dealer. If they argue with me over price (I have no empathy) I tell them to call someone else. I can't tell you how many call me back and apologize. I tell them I don't make the cars, I don't make the Fobs and I didn't lose your keys. This is how much it costs to run a business. Take it or leave it. They think I'm an asshole but they respect our work.
I got that email today, glad you made this video. So if I don’t update my scan tool, I won’t need a login (my cars are older now, and my update subscription has already expired anyway)? I just DIY my own stuff, so apparently I can’t get a VSP.
Good thing not everyone can be turned! I just invested a ton of money that is going down the drain if this nonsense continues. If you don't work in that field I see where you don't care.
Nastf is a private organization making millions a year built around the year 2000 the aftermarket tools have been in business for many more years than that, aftermarket tools do their own back research and now a private organization making millions gets in the middle of it.
I agree with the attempt to detour theft. What I don't agree with are all of the subscriptions shops have to pay. We wonder why labor rates are so high? That is a contributing factor
I’m disabled with a disabled Daughter as a single Father. I cannot afford to advertise and do limited work due to disabilities! My California Locksmith License already went from $67.50 every 2 years to $500.00 every 2! A California Locksmith License already requires a background check! I am required by Law already to Make sure I only make keys when registration matches valid drivers License! I see a CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT COMING On STRONG! This NASTF NON PROFIT has big Salary Employees no doubt! THIS IS MORE BS AND CONTROL FOR PROFIT! There are ways to safeguard without charging a bunch of money! These BOZOS CANNOT CONTROL A MARKET WITHOUT LAWS BEING PASSSED! California already does a background check on Licensees!
So I am okay with this. Yea this is coming at a bad time for me due to just hard times, but I will somehow manage. My only complaint will be or ask is to bring back MQB and give us other OEM server calculation if we do this, for the VSP holders.
This could greatly reduce car theft or it can greatly increase car jackings. The radio code had great success because the reward was not worth the risk. But now with inflation and the high cost of vehicles, the reward is substantially greater. In my opionion i believe if i own something 100 % and am willing to provide proof of it. Then i should be able to have access / information in regards to my product. As long as i can remember i have always attempted to figure out the problem and fix it myself. On the other hand, i do know my limits, and when i can't or safety is a concern, i pay.
I have a Launch scan tool for my own personal use on my own vehicles. By making my own spare fobs, the scan tool is half paid for. After losing a fob once and it costing me over $200, that is when I began making my own. I make fobs for no one else. Plus I enjoy scanning my own vehicles and making the simple repairs that I can. It is only a hobby for me. Bummer though if I can no longer make my own spare fobs, unless I quit updating the tool, maybe I won't be locked out of my existing, older vehicles. I won't be doing this much longer anyway. Backyard mechanic for decades.
This would be great for the 49 states, but in ca, they require 2m coverage to obtain your license. That's not cheap, especially in a state that most insurance companies are pulling out of.
My concern is the cost. I work for a GM dealer. So GM stuff is not an issue. But I do a lot of used cars. I can't afford the cost to continue the used cars if this is the case. Job won't pay me more to cover the cost and they sure as hell ain't going to pay for it themselves. Which would leave it for me to to pay for it. I make $15 an hour. And I do everything in the shop that all the other techs do and then some. And they have already made it clear, they will NOT give me a raise. Yes, I am looking for a different job.
completely screws us diyers over who do work on our own cars or a friend’s car from time to time and grabbing money out of those who qualify in shops with all the requirements. I recently had to add a key to my brother in law’s car and it worked and even my brothers car, bye bye to that
Funny thing is I buy a car pay a hefty price for it, but manufacture controls the security of my vehicle ?, that doesn't sound good, pretty sure that down the road someone will come up with a way around it.
Most of us let subscriptions to scan tool updates lapse because of the extraordinary cost. I can see this as being a huge money making venture for scan tool companies since they will demand updated subscription fees before verifying identity. It will be surprisingly easy for anybody to fake that data set so I see it as being next to useless.
Yep. If you buy a tool in December of this year with 1 year free update, in December 2025 you will need to buy subscription for 2026 otherwise you won't be able to use auto auth for example. Even though most shop will never see vehicles that are 1 or 2 years old, unless it's a rebuilt title. If that's not money grab I don't know what is
I am ok with VSP verification , but we all know now, that Autel will raise prices due to software changes needed on their end. I wonder if manufacturers will have a charge on top of the login for the auto-fill of the D1 form that is mostly processing fees and any PIN pulls thru the tool itself. Time will tell. It’s getting the manufacturer a foot in the door to aftermarket tools that will eventually evolve to include the OE manufacturers.
I really don't care what Autel or Auto Diagnostics charges. I don't pay the fees my customers do. It's the same when dems want to raise corporate taxes. Corporations don't pay taxes we the customers do. I have other issues with Autel like not getting live tech support as we previously did. Them not mentioning their scan tool can brick a Honda BCM if you don't know what you are doing because they wrote bad code.
@@scotts4125 That is why I said the aftermarket tools will have to evolve. If the aftermarket programmers are abiding by the rules set forth by NASTF. Then the manufacturers of the tool should have accountability as well, and handle all issues from said programmers accordingly, and be a preferred programmer as the CarDaq Plus 3.
@@ginuwine11I only use key programmers although we have a 608 and I have some other full scanner but never use it. The most expensive programmer we have is the Smart Pro. We have 2 of them. They don't brick Honda's because they write to the BCM correctly. I know Autel bricks them but not sure about the other aftermarkets.
@@scotts4125 I got a 608 but recently purchased the Cardaq Plus 3 due to the 608 VCI not capable of some of the newer cars, I even bought the CANFD adaptor, maybe this will become active once this goes thru. I also have my VSP, and I am interested on how this all goes going forward. I am holding off on my next key programmer until this goes in affect, just don't wanna jump the gun on a key programmer until the bugs are worked out.
So how does this work for techs that work for a company? Obviously the technician isn’t the business owner or have company insurance or anything else it requires. So the company then has to file for the VSP? Will the techs then be allowed to use the company’s vsp credentials?
@@SuperMarioDiagnostics so then I suppose the company needs to file for the VSP as the account owner and then they’ll be given a certain amount of employee credentials to hand out and then we’ll be able to use our personal scanners with those credentials or do all of the scanners have to be linked into the account?
Not like autoauth where you must link each tool to an account. It’s more like one extra login for the tool at hand. You’re logging into your nastf account in the scan tool
@@SuperMarioDiagnostics ok but let’s say you work for a big company with multiple shops and hundreds of technicians, how do they ensure access for all of their technicians. Will they need a seperate vsp for every shop? Will they only need one account and every employee can have a login? How does that work for larger company’s
I have been doing this since 80's when we just had mechanical keys. Name me a time ever in the past DIY'ers made lost or spare keys? The short answer is it never happened. When programmers became cheap and they switched to push to starts is the first time this ever happened. Try making an emergency or mechanical key with your programmer. Go to an A/C supply and try to buy refrigerant without a 608 license. Try to start a business as a plumber or electrician because you do it on weekends.
@@scotts41252010 Subaru legacy gt. Bought with one key. Added another myself. 2012 Subaru forester. Added a remote start using a blank. Now you can’t say never. Any questions? Side note I can get refrigerant at autozone. So maybe I’m missing the 80s angle here. Have gauges and a vacuum pump and if I do need to recycle I will take it in. Done the DIY ac compressor replacement more than once. Get off your high horse now and realize some of us actually want to fix their own stuff, and should be able to.
I appreciate the effort to prevent car theft using modern tools to bypass immobilizer but this is going to hurt the customer big time. The costs are going to be passed down to the customer, want another spare key to your car that'll be $500. Lost all the keys to your car, that'll be over $1,000. Also after reading through some locksmith forums, they don't want non-locksmiths doing immobilizer work (stealing automotive work from them) and not being automotive techs familiar with all the computers in a vehicle there are many posts of them bricking modules or causing trouble lights that they don't know how to fix because they are not automotive repair techs - they're just people that know how to follow the directions of the locksmith tool that was sold to them for programming and doing "All keys lost (AKL)" hacks. My suggestion is, don't lose your keys people. If it wasn't already expensive, it's going to get much more expensive in the near future.
I got mine in less than 24 hrs, yes, 24 hours. The only mistake l made was that I uploaded insurance myself. It it had to be sent by the agent. Super easy.
I got mine in less than 24 hours I have a record and got mine Audi and VW is making me prove VSP now I am signing up now u might want to double check ur info
Would love to join but since I'm based as a part-time business I can't get insurance, spend months calling different insurance companies and no luck. That means I'm out of most work soon as i will not be able to change electronic parts anymore as they are most tied to immobilizer systems. And thieves will find a new ways of taking cars. Nastf is going about this the wrong way, the tool manufacturers should require photo ID, credit card and background check prior to activating their tools, and then send the information to nastf for security check, fees would go to nastf and manufacturer of tools. All stolen and aftermarket tools not sold to legitimate people or businesses would be useless. But this way is just putting part-time and small businesses jumping through hoops to join in. Thank you. Why is nastf mandating insurance if it's our own responsibility? Not going to lie, I had a couple jobs I messed up and paid for it out of my pocket, and if I got sued then I would deal with it when the time comes, but nastf would know which cars I do and what I did if this was for theft preventing purposes.
My liability policy went up quite a bit. I realized I was way over insured. I had a garage keepers policy that has liability with it. I am mobile so no need for garage keepers. I found a new policy that day. I just don't get you guys. It's $500 per year. One job pays for it.
@@scotts4125 where and which insurance is that? I'll pay twice that if I could get an insurance to accept my part time business. Been calling multiple insurances and not even a quote I get. As soon as I tell the what I do they just say we don't cover your type of business. So should I lie to get insurance?
My Mercedes dealer should be shut down as a hacks, Charged me $3800 to fix my car and it still does the same thing after they worked on it. Took it back started looking for things to blame me on, all I did was change my own oil, I'm a 35 year retired tech, I think I can change my own oil. wanted to charge more looking for stuff not in Mercedes documentation on how they were suppose to do to fix my problem. I showed them documentation of previous work disputing their claims, as well as oil analysis by Blackstone showing a healthy engine wear wise. They couldn't even follow Mercedes instructions on my issue.
Nastf is suppose to be a non profit!
I’m a Licensed Locksmith for over 25 years, I pay $250 a year for my Locksmith license I had a background check.
How and why can a non government organization make their own laws?
Blackmail fir profit!
Class action lawsuits is what I see coming, greed has consequences!
You are absolutely correct. It would help if everyone stopped entertaining these things from NASTF and they would have no power.
It’s a complete money grab from NASTF. They’re a nonprofit, just another way to collect millions
I predict lawsuits when this kicks in. Just read up on right to repair laws in your state. Im in California i read ours. Im actually not worried. I also know there is something coming up in congress also. If i want to add a key or i have immobilizer problems in my car im gonna fix it myself. Im not paying. If i cant fix it because of this. Ill put a lawsuit myself. F it.
Sure you will. lol
I’m a Licensed Locksmith, I went through a background check I pay $250 a yr for my License and these boxes want more?
You are 100% right Brother “ right to repair laws trump these bozos”
I’m in California also.
Be nice to talk to an intelligent Brother like you who thinks the same and won’t be bullied by blackmailing criminals!
Nastf They are not a government organization, only the government can legally blackmail and steal from the people!
my biggest complaint is someone else telling me what I can and can't do. I understand the insurance and other items to protect the consumer to ensure the person doing the work has the knowledge and abilities to to the work properly. But as usual society spend 95% of its energy to stop 5% of the problem. I'll be frank to make my point. I have a felony conviction, my fault no one to blame for this issue except myself. but because of one bad choice 20 years ago I will never be allowed to to any of this and there will be many many many others just like me. My conviction had nothing to do with fraud or theft or anything that you could possibly link being a "risk" to vehicle lock smithing. So here I am trying to make a living being force out of my career by other people. that's what irritates me. If they(the government, society, NASTF) would allow people to have a chance I wouldn't be so upset about it but for me, and a lot of other people, its just another way to keep people from earning and good honest living.
I know I'm speaking about a small portion of people but this needs to be put out there.
If I buy a vehicle, I should own ALL of the vehicle
So you’ve spoken to them directly about it already?
@@SuperMarioDiagnostics @crasher88 I'm super interested to hear what NASTF says about the background check requirement - if it turns out they have a look-back limit of some number of years, or are concerned primarily with certain offenses, and can publish guidance on that, it would help to eliminate some concern about the program. In some places that are governed by locksmith licensing this is a matter of law, but in others NASTF might be putting up barriers that may be unfair or even abused.
Reach out to them and see
Have you attempted to get your NASTF VSP ID ??
I do module programming part time and have been unable to get business insurance (which is required by NASTF). Can’t even get insurance brokers to return my call once they find out I do not have a brick-and-mortar facility and so this during my evenings and weekends. There is no agency that can prevent automotive theft by criminals. NONE!
Email me at supermariodiagnostics@yahoo.com
I may be able to help
I'm in the same shoes as you. I do programming part-time can't get insurance to cover this, so I'm out of business after this takes effect.
Just partnership with someone that has a shop that doesn't offer those services am it's done
@@pauldavis8716how would that work? Register my tools to his business? Why not have nastf accept my application without the insurance? I'll pay the fees and submit all my information, I'm all legal part-time home business .
CANNOT get insurance? Is this common for chiptuners in particular, you do not want to PAY for insurance, or something else have not considered? @@jorgemat8080
What about the people who want to learn how to work on immobilizers and keys? How about when a mobile mechanic wants to swap a PCM? Cars manufacturers are just making it more and more complicated!
It’s this, or nothing at all.
That’s what we’re dealing with here
OE’s would give us nothing if they could
Dealer only...the public learning about immobilizers and keys, not allowed. It's a protectionist position where club members who pay their dues and fees are the only ones that can play.
@@soeren72 Mario that’s how you learned you use your intelligence which I can see in your videos and you started out learning on your own. This makes it more difficult for that. Not everybody wants to have a job working in a shop getting crappy pay working their way up because the owner has real reasons not to pay you or move you up! It’s easier just to go to school on your own and learn as you go this slows that down for some people. You said yourself you learned from scratch
@soeren72 easy to say in a comment on social media.
I’m realistic about our current situation
What’s really giving up is thinking you can just go up to the oe and force them to hand you access to the very intellectual property that keeps them in business without some kind of organization
Who’s really given up?
Yes i did start from scratch and you’re also hearing it from me first, this is what it’s going to take to get access. That’s why i got my vsp. Its already happening, there’s no stopping it, unless a miracle happens
In New York State not NEW York City we are not to require to have a locksmith license but a Certificate. Can a person still apply?
Yes im in long island new york im a mobile diagnostic/programming tech I just got my VSP credentials was not hard at all just basic general liability with buisness and good to go good to have any way you only need locksmith license if you in ne york city and or applying as a locksmith on Application they have different jobs titles to choose from Mobile tech repair shop locksmith ETC you choose what you field you in
WHAT HAPPEN TO RIGHT TO REPAIR MY OWN VEHICLE.
Security functions are not covered under right to repair
@@SuperMarioDiagnostics As you stated if the OE determines that PCM is part of the security function by immobilizing the ignition system. Then I no longer have the right or the ability to repair my own vehicle.
@SuperMarioDiagnostics
Or like you stated, transmission, etc.
For the DIY Guys and girls, be sure not to buy a European car, or any late model vehicle. You will need VSP to program a new taillight on an F150 soon enough.... already may be in place on the lightening.... and the taillight assembly is $4000.00+. People more and more are seeking out older LEXII and other vehicles that are in excellent condition.
@@billziegmond4943 let's hope there will be an action sue against this. I know I will join ASAP that sue. This is taking away our right to work. Professional locksmith licensed bricks a bcm and sends car to dealer, how is a vsp and insurance going to stop a locksmith from turning around and saying pay me a can't do it and moves on. I just came into a situation like that and was able to fix the issue . In reality a locksmith is not a tech or a mechanic or a diagnostician. They only know keys period. Everything else is people like you and me and we getting that taken away and giving it to locksmith that don't know turd from a bcm/ecm etc.
The biggest thing that bothers me about this is the fact that a criminal record can disallow your participation. One of the only ways for some people who have a record to enjoy success after serving their sentence is to start and run their own business. Putting them out of business just because they once upon a time did something against the law is frankly horrendous, and our society in the US already does a lot to punish folks in that position. IMO there should be a published statute of limitations that governs the background check process, limiting it to time and certain types of offenses. If that's published somewhere already, I couldn't find it anywhere in their documentation.
That’s not what happens actually. As i stated in the video, talk to them. Reach out to them. Before closing the door on this. Not reaching out to them because you’ve concluded that you’re disqualified would be a mistake
@@SuperMarioDiagnosticsI don’t think an insurance company will bond someone with a felony conviction on their record. I’m not 100% sure but I do believe this is the case.
@@djosbun it all depends on what the felony is, grand theft auto, it's a safe bet you won't get a LSID. Writing a bad check 30 years ago, you probably got a chance. Its definitely worth trying
most companies don't hire felons anyways, so its really nothing different here
Let's see what the folks at MHHAuto will come up with.
Looks like laws are gonna have to force OEMS to allow owners who buy vehicles to have the right to have FULL ACCESS to all the systems on their vehicles. If I buy it, I should have a way to work on it.
Easier said than done
They’ve tried plenty
OEMs are using the auto theft prevention angle of this to supercede any right to repair laws/lobbying. Reduce auto theft or allow people to fix their own vehicles, what is a politician to decide?
I was about to start with Immo but now it will be hard to practice before I get serious with the business. I don't have a million dollar insurance so automatic disqualification for the application lol. I think the bread should be shared and this is an insensitive to see how much they can do before we say enough.
It’s really sad how self righteous techs have become. Instead of worrying about the “bottom feeders” and people who you think are below you, they should take a page from Eric Os book. Do the best job YOU can do,focus on your quality and don’t be so obviously threatened by people you feel are beneath you. I feel we have devolved to a point where everyone wants something “fixed” with more regulation to eliminate competition instead of upping your own game and using the poor customer as a reason.
The problem is bottom feeders who call themselves professionals give professionals a bad name. I see this weekly. Customers call the cheapest guy to make a lost key. He uses the cheapest aftermarket crap UHS sells and after a couple months it stops working. They call him back and he won't take care of it. I charge 3 times what he does but I use OEM fobs and warranty our work. If that makes me self righteous so be it. I sleep well at night knowing I use the best equipment and parts to give people premium service and I charge accordingly.
That’s a fine and dandy if you have no competition in your area. But when you have others who have very little overhead charging 20 dollars for a key, when you on the other hand, have a legit business and overhead and charge what you need to stay profitable, why would a customer choose you? And when things go wrong, that 20 key guy bails and leaves the customer screwed, and with a deteriorating outlook on our industry.
Sure i could close my eyes on what’s going on around me and only worry about myself, but that’s a bit selfish and short sighted.
The regulation and its effect on the market is a byproduct of the regulation
No one proposed this regulation as a way to cut competition, it’s only the effect.
This regulation is the only way the OE’s will permit the aftermarket access to security related functions.
If they had their way, the aftermarket would have no access at all.
Maybe you should learn what’s really going on before concluding that this is something other than what it actually is.
SMA is full of himself too.
Man I'm with you on this I am big on oem the quality can not be matched.I have customers that ask for a reduced rate and my answer is always no.Dont know if this means anything to you I am rite there with you on this.
@@richarman4440 I never give discounts. The is what the price is. I honestly can't recall anyone turning us down because I didn't reduce the price. They ask the price up front and decline but not after being denied a discount. If they are really annoying I am kind of a jerk about it and offer them a discount with an ask. I tell them I may be able to do the job for their price or even free. It's funny because their tone changes and not in a happy way. I tell them to call my bank. If they can persuade my bank to reduce my mortgage by the amount of discount they seek I will be happy to charge them accordingly. None of them have ever tried. :)
I'm not desperate for their work. We are busy enough. If you project that attitude it also lets them know you have confidence in what you do. If people give discounts they won't be respected as your initial price wasn't real to begin with.
This will just be a minor inconvenience for thieves and will steadily encompass more and more parts of the car it’s right there in black and white “whatever the manufacturer deems security related”.
I don't think that will curb the auto theft. They will still grab em and strip em. I think it's a good idea just makes it a little more of a pain to access your immo functions.
Thanks Mario, looks like getting a VSP just became a bigger priority for me.
Thanks for taking the time to explain and for taking the mystery out of this topic and the process to obtain the VSP. I believe it's about money, but that's business, and it weeds out those who what to make auto repair friendly and affordable, with all the education, training and equipment we need to properly fix a car we need to be paid properly for that and this will separate those who keep up from those who don't.
what happens if a person wants to fix a vehicle themselves and lets assume they have a jbox. will they be able to have access?
Nope!
In my state a locksmith license is required. I tried to get my locksmith license several years ago just so I had it. To get a locksmith license you have to apprentice for 3 years in the industry. Automotive industry is not eligible to be considered as a acceptable apprenticeship. we are a legit shop fully insured. Also what do you do for a shop that the techs all have there own scanners. can they all use the same login for the business?
no each user will require their own VSP, but the main shop vsp holder can add subordinate accounts for their individual workers
Not after nastf puts their law in place autel is already onboard
Your scanner won’t function for programming keys unless you pay!
It's a money grab my friend . Those people are marking things more and more complicated to get more money out of your pocket.
What’s complicated about a vetting process? The only thing that’s complicated is how people are making it out to be. And the money paid to nastf barely covers the application processing. Why not learn more about it rather than jumping to conclusions?
@@SuperMarioDiagnosticsdude is not so much about the money is the control they have over the industry
Mario, I absolutely respect you friend and know you are a leader in your field. That said, taking the ability to service or repair something you own is by default giving up one’s right of ownership. Regardless of the “skill” of the one wanting to repair, the owner should have the right to attempt or choose who attempts to fix their product. And thinking this will just stop with “security” is laughable. In 10 years they will demand only licensed people take off an oil drain plug.
If it were up to the OE’s, we’d have zero access. Nothing. Nastf are the people who are interceding on behalf of the aftermarket. Compromises have to be made sometimes just to get access
Like most things car manufactures do it will turn into an uncontrolled mess.
Will this affect only North American Aftermarket tool distributors? Maybe ordering right from China has never looked so good????
I thought of that too bro
I am pleased you were brave enough to take on this topic including the suggestion for more conversation regarding access to security functions in scantools. I believe there are several perspectives on this issue. Vehicle owners and insurance companies do not want their vehicles stolen, a stolen vehicle is expensive to repair. Repair shops do not want another "middle man" interfering with their ability to repair vehicles. Thieves still want to be able to steal vehicles.
I would love to sign up but can't get insurance coverage.
The question is which aftermarket scan tool manufacturers will comply with this in which of them will not? I would assume the large ones such as Autel will comply, but smaller companies such as Topdon might not ?
They already have!
I need help getting through the sign up process and hardware/software requirements. I work for a government fleet department and a lot of the requirements I can't get straight answers from NASTF. Is there a different membership process for government entities and is there any actual videos of someone using the software and hardware in action (tutorial)?
I’m a mobile guy programming modules, what company are y’all using for the insurance part?
It's really none of their business if I have insurance or not or a brick and mortar! A mobile mechanic doesn't need either one which is why many are mobile! It's actually putting people out of a job if they're limited on funds and trying to make a living. Nothing good about this at all. It's not even fair to customers.
Bullshit. I'm mobile and have an account. Stop with the nonsense.
Thanks for sharing. Havn’t heard about this yet
What about adding keys as a DIYer? Will this perhaps have an effect on that? If so this is total BS. If I work on my own car so what.
Vehicle owners always have an option to buy a key for their car. Won’t affect them
@@SuperMarioDiagnosticsTRY TELLING THAT TO SOME DEALERSHIPS. TOTAL BS......
@SuperMarioDiagnostics at what cost, though? Now people can get a blade honda key for around 200 after this takes effect I would say that same key from a 2006 honda accord will run to around 400 and owner can always go to the dealer and pay 500 so I don't see how the owner of the car can keep cost down. As cost will be passed down to the owner regardless. I totally agree with having nastf but there are other ways that this could of been done not close small shops and bodyshops down or raise their already high prices just to make ends meet.
@@jorgemat8080I see patterns with many, not all that we make lost keys for. These people are just not responsible. They lose a key but don't get a spare made while they still have one. They just do a lot of dumb stuff. We have repeat lockout customers also. Patterns. People go through life and don't pay attention or do things the right way. I love these people BTW.
Everyday I get calls for people who "think" they locked the keys in the car. I warn them before we go out in my experience unless you know the keys are locked in 19 out of 20 times the keys aren't going to be there. I lose calls this way but I encourage them to keep looking. I also ask them if they have a spare key anywhere else in the world as it will be cheaper to next day the key than have us come out. People thank me even call me back to tell me because I encouraged them to keep looking they found them elsewhere. We have a few lockouts a week that turn into a lost key as well. You name we have seen and done it.
Call a plumber and or an electrician. Do you know how much they charge? We are still seen by some as backyard hacks. I am trying to change that image.
Locksmiths help DIYers, Body Shops and Dealerships all the time... but you wanna go online, and find a free alternative? That is unrealistic. I do a lot of lock related work FOR repair shops and dealers, so they do not make investments that become obsolete every two years. Just ask a dealer who has a pile of OEM required key machines that time has passed by. By doing a fair volume, I can offset all that investment, and the dealer or repair shop can focus on the overall repairs. It is mutually beneficial, and the car owner gets better results, such as matched key locks, something most repair shops will not do, for lack of the investment in 30-100 service kits, such as I have.
What the insurance cost for locksmith ? I have a 1 million liability 150k garage keepers for my towing setup and is around 15k a year for 1 truck ! Is it similar or cheaper
Hey Mario. We had something similar happen in Australia 2 years ago. I call it a cash grab by the government!
They decided that the small shops should be entitled to carry out everything a main dealer can and there would be a new company taking control of this AASRA.
It costs you $380 aud plus a police check. If you need EV information as well it’s another $50 aud.
Now, I’m all for this to give everyone the same access, but I’m not happy that even working in a main dealer you can not access this information like EV immobiliser radio codes variant coding etc without having this AASRA account!
I don’t know how you feel about it but in my honest opinion, if you work in a dealer you should not have to pay to get the information to fix the dealer vehicles, and as you said, if Joe blow has access to write to a module, then he can also crash a module at the same time and when the vehicle comes to the dealer to get diagnosed, you can guarantee that shop is not going to tell you exactly what they have done!
Thank you Mario. What was the cost for the insurance policy?
Mines around $500 per year for $1,000,000 worth of coverage. Been doing this since the 80's and never had a claim. If I or one of my guys break something I take care of it. I can count on one hand with fingers left over the amount of times that has happened. I have personally only broke 1 window and my luck it was on a Mercedes. No big deal I broke it paid to have it fixed.
@@scotts4125Thank you Scotts
Varies by region. For me in Miami, it’s 1500.00 a year
@@scotts4125 Thank you for the feedback.
@@lynxstarautomotive208 Thank you for the feedback.
what happens if your insurance co drops you. what happens then?
So as an employee of a business, I need to buy my own personal insurance coverage? As a W2 employee?
See the link in the description, it’ll explain all of it
I do not own the business I work for, would NASTF accept my employers general liability insurance? I've looked at VSP credentials before and could not make a business case for it, same with J2534. I can't afford it as a W2 employee along with all my other costs, there isn't a ROI case for me. I couldn't imagine how many modules I'd need to program to pay off a Jbox and laptop.
The employer can add you on as an additional user for a fee. With that said my guys are W2 employee's and one of my guys has his own account because I let him do side work.
Very good information,blessings.thank you.
In NJ I can get a VSP as a diagnostic shop but I cant get key codes because I don't have an Actual Locksmith license. If I fill out a D1 to get a key code I can get shut down. Do you know what I can do on the aftermarket scan tools with out risking getting shutdown.
Get that locksmith license and end the madness. I know it’s not easy in every state. Mine wasn’t easy to get either
@@SuperMarioDiagnostics That's not really an option in NJ, You need either 3 years hands on experience with at least 20 hours a week FULL time locksmith or a two year apprentice program. That's besides the tests. I don't really have the money to close my business for 2 or 3 years.
Good luck on the test lol. It is not on JUST locksmithing. The business and law section is insane. It covers contractual law, acts, bills and things you wouldn't expect. The entire test is put together by people who are in the business, and they try hard to keep others out of their money trough. I recall being asked FIRE ALARM questions regarding conduit and other things. Its a LOCKSMITH test, not a Fire alarm test. Smh. I found it very difficult but made it after a second attempt.
I like your work. If I was still in NJ I would take care of you. I would try to find a locksmith who you can barter with. Maybe work on his fleet, help him out with issues and he can add you on to his account. There are ways to do this.
Question how do you get a business In good standing certificate? I have a new llc I got 2 months ago
Did you even read the qualifications? You are more than half way there with a business license. I had a business license when I was 20 years old in the 80's. Still have the same license and a crew working for me. This isn't rocket science. The liability is about $500 per year and we are mobile, no shop.
@@scotts4125 Who do you use for insurance as a mobile guy?
You need to look it up on your states website example arizonas is EECORP
You go back to your state gov website..... in Colorado it is the Secretary of State section.... you look up your own business entity, and there will be a status link to print a certificate... otherwise call your state governing body, and request how to obtain.... Good standing means you registered the business properly, and paid the annual fee. It is as relevant to the quality of your work as the BBB is. Somewhat meaningless bureaucracy, since I already have a sales tax license, local and state. The point is not to get hung up on terms and preconceptions.... research, learn....navigate the system.
Thanks for the video!
I was told by a smart box rep that they want nothing to do with NASTF. I'll be switching to them. It's 1600 bucks but I'd rather pay than be forced to jump through NASTF hoops.
I have the first gen Smartbox with the smaller screen. It's sitting on my office floor. I have never actually used it. One of my guys used it. Said he liked it but he was older and the screen was too small for him. I know they have great customer service. I get an invoice every month from them because it's token based and updates are free. The invoice every month says $0.00 and you keep your CC on file with them.
We have 2 Advanced Diagnostics Smart Pro's. If I had to choose one programmer it would be that one. IMHO they are the best. Is that the first one I grab? Nope. It's the Autel 508. I don't have to use tokens and the Smart Pro case is basically a suitcase for 4 latches. lol
When I got an xtool I was completely blown away by how easy it would be to get into a newer Chrysler, program a fob and drive away
That's how it should be!
Xtool and launch can do all the keys, don’t need OE scan tool
Don't forget you have to have the master key before programming the new fob
@@billmonroe8826til your car gets stolen lol
@@imfloridano5448no you dont
Is Autel one of the ones doing it?
No, but they signed on to the nastf bs. Won’t be able to use their machines unless you pay nastf blackmail
My personal issue is the fact that my biz is licensed and insured. My state is super strict and already does fingerprinting and background checks, requires continuous training and license renewals all of which cost. So having to shell out over $400 is ridiculous. Maybe in other states without all the hoops should be expected to be vetted, not the legitimate entities who were already thoroughly probed.
Depending on the car, that's less than we charge for 1 key. Our cheapest key is $250 and we go up from there. We have all the same state kaka you do. Stop being afraid to charge your worth. That's the biggest issue I see. I'm not in competition with $100 Chuck in a truck. He can have those customers all day I don't want them. I'm not BSing. We are very busy and I turn more calls down in a week than the hacks do in a month. Change your mindset.
After rambling for a little bit, I actually been meaning to get it anyway. Namely for GM keycodes when that once in a while job comes where it would be convenient. Code brokers are crazy expensive for GM. I am happy for you turning down jobs and being busy. Around here, there's a good 6 to 8 ads that outspend me and nab peoples attention first. This effects my pricing. Google had me on video chat to prove licensing and a ton of other things but then they allow a place to advertise with a home improvement contractors license lmao
@@flipc6081I forgot the years but the code brokers don't have newer codes. The fees are built into my pricing. If the fees go up so does my pricing. Don't be afraid to charge what you are worth with a nice profit.
I don't even advertise. We run 80 to 150 calls per week. Just lockouts and lost keys. I don't do ignition work or lock repair any more. Too busy to be tied up. We get in and out onto the next one.
How are you being contacted by ppl who need services? If you are not advertising, someone is advocating your information. Very curious
The car radio analogy doesn't work... I have the code for my own radio, I don't have to call anyone to unlock my radio. Also, my question is... where do we stop? Because this is a larger issue and it affects other products, not only cars. This has nothing to do with security, it's a power/money grab from the OE, otherwise you wouldn't need a business for this. Every DIYer should be able to show an id and get access to any function. This is really f-ed up. The right to repair laws need amended if they don't include every aspect of a vehicle.
I agree, right to repair should include it. Maybe this will wake people up to do something about it
And the radio analogy does work. It’s your radio, you have the code.
It’s my scan tool, i have the login. No one else does
First of all congratulations on getting you VSP id you're a blessed man👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
This topic is controversial but crucial, I mean watching you guy's on TH-cam overcoming numerous challenges fuels our desires to follow the same lead, & time to time we keep investing in new tools to overcome job requirements.
I can give many examples where I couldn't make a dealer key due to no access & had to buy several modules (with the key) from a junkyard just to start the vehicle
I mean what nonsense is this, not every car on the street gets stolen & the one's that hit the junkyard are also there due to some reason, & maybe tomorrow the OEM's will come up with an idea/legislation that forces junkyards to use a specific tool to corrupt softwares on all the modules on a vehicle so they cannot be configured to a different vin, who knows🤔
Anyways this is a huge issue, & it seems like gone are the day's where small shops could survive, & now only dealerships will have the access & right to fix a car, & as far as aftermarket tooling goes we should stop buying bcuz sooner or later these tools will become useless & our hard earned money will not be recovered
Just sharing my opinion😅😅😅
Can i get an lsid as a technician only not a shop owner?
Yes read the link in the description
Go back to a steel key with immo . Push to start keys have create the ease of programming a key , only one level of security .
What if you can't Lishi it? We don't Lishi BTW. We pay for codes if the lock isn't easy to take out because time is money and we pass that on to the customer. You will need a machine to cut the key. The machine alone is years worth of NASTF fees. If you are running an actual business in order to this correctly for most vehicles you already need an NASTF account.
About steel keys. We get calls for Honda's almost daily. I tell customers Honda makes great cars with crappy locks. They have known for 20 years their wafers suck but they still continue to use them. I hope they never stop. :)
I agree with your statement, but it does not resolve the larger issues.
And this will not prevent ir deter theft of the vehicle at all
Thanks for sharing this. I seen a video the other day on how easy it was to steal land rovers with a tool in less than a min. Theft is so bad in the UK that people can't get insurance anywhere. I knew something like this was coming. I won't be caught with my pants down, time to get a Lic.
He Mario I have a mobile diagnostic and repair business and I sometimes have to program modules and Key. I have everything on the list except a locksmith license.
Is that no a requirement to obtain NASTF (VSP) LICENSE?
or your state does not require it
or you have locksmith licenses?
Thank you
My state does not require but the city i reside in does. I did have to get my Miami dade locksmith license
You only need a locksmith license if your state or city requires you to have one if your “originating” keys- as in getting customer owned information from the manufacturer, like key codes, to cut keys. If you are only doing Immobilizer work and copying keys, then you don’t need a license from your city or state to fulfill NASTF requirements. That is straight from Donny Seyfer at NASTF.
@@SuperMarioDiagnosticsMy understanding was that MDC was getting rid of the locksmith license for the automotive sector? When I did my renewals this month, I didn’t need a locksmith license, and I renewed my VSP?
@@lynxstarautomotive208 that’s what i heard as well but i didn’t see any documentation on it. I was able to get my vsp without getting the Miami dade locksmith. But everything else actually forced me to get it lol since my insurance is for a locksmith business
@@SuperMarioDiagnosticsHmm interesting. From what I have been able to gather with this new process, VSP’s are now viewed as equals in the eyes of the manufacturer and NASTF. No more I’m a VSP, but not a locksmith. I was looking into getting my locksmith license last year, and department of consumer affairs told me that automotive locksmith was probably not going to be recognized as business in the eyes of the county. They told me to hold off until further notice.
I have garage keepers with the NASTF requirements, and it’s not too bad cost for Miami-Dade. Allows me to get my transporter tag as well. Which is a big help servicing these dealer cars, many of which don’t even have titles officially yet. However, I really only got my VSP for Mercedes TRP parts.
Reminds me of Angie's List . All the sudden this list is the authority on home repairs and if your not on the list your no good. How did anyone ever make a choice with it......
Hey Mario. As a technician who doesn't own the business, would my employer be able to get a VSP and I be able to use it to repair the vehicle?
Your employer can you get your own vsp through his business. See link in description it lays out the requirements
It is all about money they dont even care about stolen cars! If that's the case why dont they put a tracker or gps it is easier in my opinion!
Cutting out many honest small shops that do good work and the home mechanic that knows as much as you period .
This has been a long time coming
What’s stopping them from getting a VSP?
@@SuperMarioDiagnostics I do all my own car work and this has me pretty pissed actually. The radio argument is not a good one, since you can lose your keys, but you can't just 'lose' your radio.
@katzenpapa this is a non-issue for you
@@SuperMarioDiagnostics I don't think that's a good take, to be honest. Why stop DIYers from servicing their own car, even if that includes keys? What's to say that some guy wants to get into repairing cars and to learn buys a scantool - we're removing the ability to experiment, to learn, to absorb the knowledge organically. I'm not arguing that this program isn't good in the long run, but preventing people from participating because they're not a business is not conducive to the industry as a whole.
@@SuperMarioDiagnostics I should not be required to have a business license to work on my own cars. Manufactured are required to make all service information available to the general public. This is just another greedy attempt to hinder our right to service my cars. I must disagree with your assessment that this is a good thing.
This is a case of "You will own nothing and like it!" Full stop.
From AEI on radio theft... "it’s a crime that plagued car owners throughout the 1990s. But according to the FBI’s latest crime report, car stereo thefts have fallen by more than half over the past 15 years, from more than a million in 1994 to just over 400,000, even as car theft rates have remained high." Do you notice the last part of the last sentence?
Over the last ~20 years, we've see the results of manufacture 'safety' interjection, it rarely ends well for those who purchased the product.
I saw the post/email yesterday morning. It has become the topic of the day for sure. But thanks for your video, it does help to clarify things a bit. I mean, if both the auto manufacturers and tool makers are on board (I don't see that they have a choice), then there is really very little anyone can do to go around SDRM. To the people saying that this will not reduce car theft, then what will? They still can use tow equipment but the VSP program is most definitely a step back. I've had cars stolen from me twice. I know how it feels. Something has to be done. I don't like all of the implications the program brings about, but what other choice is there?
I am a VSP technician since 2015, so I can buy TRP parts from MB, now starting this year MB won't allowing remote programming.
This becomes big problem since Bluelink can't help us anymore.
MARIO, do you have Xentry and program MB or you send to the dealer.
Thanks
It makes sense there should be a pin to gain access to the security like if you're a mechanic know anybody can gain access if you a mechanic or locksmith just make a account like you pay for programming ECMs
Mario,
This is an awesome video. NASTF is to the Immobilizer crowd what ASE is to the Automotive repair crowd. NASTF is simply a regulatory body created from within the automotive industry to keep the regulatory process within the automotive industry, to keep the government out. If the government gets involved it truly would become a giant mess.
ASE is a self regulating body from within the automotive industry to keep automotive certification out of government hands. It keeps things simple and streamlined.
This is one of your best videos. I agree with you 100%. This regulation by NASTF needs to be done to keep the professionals in, and non-professionals out.
Perhaps you could please share with us how you went about getting your insurance for NASTF approval, who you got it with and how much it cost, if you wouldn’t mind.
Not exactly. NASTF came to be after many of us were sick and tired of getting shafted by the OEM’s. It’s a group of individuals who banned together to voice the industry as a collective.
The problem is, NASTF hasn’t done as good of a job as we deserve. I could be wrong, but that seems to be the impression I got at one of their board meetings. They let the OEM and government bully them.
@@lynxstarautomotive208 Better them get bullied than us. I haven’t been to any of the meetings between them and the Manufacturers, but the manufacturers have a lot more money and resources to fight back than NASTF does. So, I can’t imagine those meetings being friendly.
At least somebody is there doing something.
@@Barnehy1I disagree, see once upon a time NASTF actually did a decent job fending for the independent. In 2001 they actually claimed a victory on how and what data could be accessed via the OBD port. They voiced their concern to governing authorities, and said authorities agreed, and manufacturers had to cut the shenanigans.
See what was happening was OEM’s found a way to only get emissions data relevant modules to comm on the OBD 2 port. The other modules could only be accessed with proprietary tooling *OEM’s did NOT offer to the aftermarket* . Mercedes was a big offender here. Some early 2000’s MB saw the 38 pin connector deleted, and if you connect via the OBD2 port, all you can comm with is the ECU and TCU. You needed the MB DAS with the multiplexer to properly communicate with the entire vehicle. This posed a lot of issues, especially to law enforcement and related agencies that needed access to crash data. The cars had to be shipped to the dealers, and it was a huge cluster.
NASTF stepped up to bat, and brought these concerns to light. Eventually, the government said that the OBD2 port MUST be the source of communication for the entire vehicle.
Fast forward to present day, we are starting to see the same hurdles and roadblocks. Except the NASTF is more like 🤷♂️ “just be thankful we have access period.” It’s that take it leave it mentality, and it’s because they have gotten too cozy with the manufacturers.
I'm licensed, bonded and insured in Texas and I will stop running automotive calls in 2025. I will move my company more towards commercial and residential! After 35 years, I've had enough.
Most everyone of us who already has NASTF will be ok with it, I think. I completely agree with you from the comments around @4:00, thats exactly how it goes down with a lot of hacks out there. The older days you had to have a $10K + tool to be able to do keys decently so there wasnt so many hacks. Once so many cheap tools started coming around then things started getting so much worse.
Hey I definitely understand your concerns. Do you think the dealerships think you are the hack and want to get rid of people like you?
Doesn’t matter what dealer wants. We’re talking about the OE’s.
Ok I fave full ase certs but I don’t feel like I’m confident enough to work on security system. Here the the biggest question why would consumers trust you (or me or anyone) over the the dealer?
@@patrickgroover8403 Consumers call locksmiths all day. My company isn't cheap but we are cheaper than the dealer. If they argue with me over price (I have no empathy) I tell them to call someone else. I can't tell you how many call me back and apologize. I tell them I don't make the cars, I don't make the Fobs and I didn't lose your keys. This is how much it costs to run a business. Take it or leave it. They think I'm an asshole but they respect our work.
Ebay will comeout with bypass software black boxes.
glad i got out of this shit industry. gets worse by the day
I got that email today, glad you made this video. So if I don’t update my scan tool, I won’t need a login (my cars are older now, and my update subscription has already expired anyway)? I just DIY my own stuff, so apparently I can’t get a VSP.
nope vsp is for legit business owner/employee's
@@JOHNPHUFNAGEL I don’t see how a scan tool that can do this right now can all of the sudden NOT do it if it doesn’t get updated
You’re right, if and only if internet isn’t required for the vehicle you’re working on
@@SuperMarioDiagnostics sounds like I’m safe for now, until I buy a new car. Thanks Mario
@@travissheehan6082it’s called DOIP (diagnostic over internet protocol) and at least in my niche, started on 2018 vehicles.
How does this affect the rest of the world?
Good thing not everyone can be turned! I just invested a ton of money that is going down the drain if this nonsense continues. If you don't work in that field I see where you don't care.
In what field? As a locksmith? I am a licensed locksmith. What’s stopping you from getting a VSP?
You know who won’t lose access to immo….criminals..
Tell me. What other way is there to remove component protection on an audi without the factory scan tool with an online connection to FAZIT?
Nastf is a private organization making millions a year built around the year 2000 the aftermarket tools have been in business for many more years than that, aftermarket tools do their own back research and now a private organization making millions gets in the middle of it.
I agree with the attempt to detour theft. What I don't agree with are all of the subscriptions shops have to pay. We wonder why labor rates are so high? That is a contributing factor
that is the cost of business my friend
How did you get ur locksmith license mario i know its required
I applied for it and provided all that they needed
I’m disabled with a disabled Daughter as a single Father.
I cannot afford to advertise and do limited work due to disabilities!
My California Locksmith License already went from $67.50 every 2 years to $500.00 every 2! A California Locksmith License already requires a background check!
I am required by Law already to Make sure I only make keys when registration matches valid drivers License!
I see a CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT COMING On STRONG!
This NASTF NON PROFIT has big Salary Employees no doubt!
THIS IS MORE BS AND CONTROL FOR PROFIT!
There are ways to safeguard without charging a bunch of money!
These BOZOS CANNOT CONTROL A MARKET WITHOUT LAWS BEING PASSSED!
California already does a background check on Licensees!
So I am okay with this. Yea this is coming at a bad time for me due to just hard times, but I will somehow manage.
My only complaint will be or ask is to bring back MQB and give us other OEM server calculation if we do this, for the VSP holders.
This could greatly reduce car theft or it can greatly increase car jackings. The radio code had great success because the reward was not worth the risk. But now with inflation and the high cost of vehicles, the reward is substantially greater. In my opionion i believe if i own something 100 % and am willing to provide proof of it. Then i should be able to have access / information in regards to my product. As long as i can remember i have always attempted to figure out the problem and fix it myself. On the other hand, i do know my limits, and when i can't or safety is a concern, i pay.
Europe will get the same procedures. Belgium and holland we need to get the certirifate before april
I have a Launch scan tool for my own personal use on my own vehicles. By making my own spare fobs, the scan tool is half paid for. After losing a fob once and it costing me over $200, that is when I began making my own. I make fobs for no one else. Plus I enjoy scanning my own vehicles and making the simple repairs that I can. It is only a hobby for me. Bummer though if I can no longer make my own spare fobs, unless I quit updating the tool, maybe I won't be locked out of my existing, older vehicles. I won't be doing this much longer anyway. Backyard mechanic for decades.
This would be great for the 49 states, but in ca, they require 2m coverage to obtain your license. That's not cheap, especially in a state that most insurance companies are pulling out of.
Charge accordingly. I see money to be made and less competition. I also would move the hell out of CA for many other reasons.
@@scotts4125 i am in californai and i pay 25 a month for insurance, not sure what this dudes excuse is lol
@@pouncerminned863 what insurance do you have ?
@@josereal5216 next insurance
@@josereal52161 million dollar liability is required
My concern is the cost. I work for a GM dealer. So GM stuff is not an issue. But I do a lot of used cars. I can't afford the cost to continue the used cars if this is the case. Job won't pay me more to cover the cost and they sure as hell ain't going to pay for it themselves. Which would leave it for me to to pay for it. I make $15 an hour. And I do everything in the shop that all the other techs do and then some. And they have already made it clear, they will NOT give me a raise. Yes, I am looking for a different job.
Mention these concerns to your new employer. You’re highly underpaid if you’re into security systems
I'm a DIY"er and guard my scan tool and I don't lend it out due to that feature
Restricting access to services does not improve the quality of those services
completely screws us diyers over who do work on our own cars or a friend’s car from time to time and grabbing money out of those who qualify in shops with all the requirements. I recently had to add a key to my brother in law’s car and it worked and even my brothers car, bye bye to that
That’s how you started wanted to do it and just learned along the way. According to your videos.
Yes and progressed. What’s the problem with that?
I still didn’t charge 20 bucks for keys
Funny thing is I buy a car pay a hefty price for it, but manufacture controls the security of my vehicle ?, that doesn't sound good, pretty sure that down the road someone will come up with a way around it.
Right to repair is dead
Most of us let subscriptions to scan tool updates lapse because of the extraordinary cost. I can see this as being a huge money making venture for scan tool companies since they will demand updated subscription fees before verifying identity. It will be surprisingly easy for anybody to fake that data set so I see it as being next to useless.
Mind clarifying? Seeing what exactly as being next to useless? The VSP login?
Yep. If you buy a tool in December of this year with 1 year free update, in December 2025 you will need to buy subscription for 2026 otherwise you won't be able to use auto auth for example. Even though most shop will never see vehicles that are 1 or 2 years old, unless it's a rebuilt title. If that's not money grab I don't know what is
I am ok with VSP verification , but we all know now, that Autel will raise prices due to software changes needed on their end. I wonder if manufacturers will have a charge on top of the login for the auto-fill of the D1 form that is mostly processing fees and any PIN pulls thru the tool itself. Time will tell. It’s getting the manufacturer a foot in the door to aftermarket tools that will eventually evolve to include the OE manufacturers.
I really don't care what Autel or Auto Diagnostics charges. I don't pay the fees my customers do. It's the same when dems want to raise corporate taxes. Corporations don't pay taxes we the customers do.
I have other issues with Autel like not getting live tech support as we previously did. Them not mentioning their scan tool can brick a Honda BCM if you don't know what you are doing because they wrote bad code.
@@scotts4125 That is why I said the aftermarket tools will have to evolve. If the aftermarket programmers are abiding by the rules set forth by NASTF. Then the manufacturers of the tool should have accountability as well, and handle all issues from said programmers accordingly, and be a preferred programmer as the CarDaq Plus 3.
@@ginuwine11I only use key programmers although we have a 608 and I have some other full scanner but never use it. The most expensive programmer we have is the Smart Pro. We have 2 of them. They don't brick Honda's because they write to the BCM correctly. I know Autel bricks them but not sure about the other aftermarkets.
@@scotts4125 I got a 608 but recently purchased the Cardaq Plus 3 due to the 608 VCI not capable of some of the newer cars, I even bought the CANFD adaptor, maybe this will become active once this goes thru. I also have my VSP, and I am interested on how this all goes going forward. I am holding off on my next key programmer until this goes in affect, just don't wanna jump the gun on a key programmer until the bugs are worked out.
Nastf isn’t “setting the rules”
It’s the compromise made for the oe’s to provide access to the aftermarket
So how does this work for techs that work for a company? Obviously the technician isn’t the business owner or have company insurance or anything else it requires. So the company then has to file for the VSP? Will the techs then be allowed to use the company’s vsp credentials?
Yes there’s an employee vsp available as well
@@SuperMarioDiagnostics so then I suppose the company needs to file for the VSP as the account owner and then they’ll be given a certain amount of employee credentials to hand out and then we’ll be able to use our personal scanners with those credentials or do all of the scanners have to be linked into the account?
Sort of like you do with Autoauth where you log the scanners serial number into your Autoauth account as a verified user?
Not like autoauth where you must link each tool to an account. It’s more like one extra login for the tool at hand. You’re logging into your nastf account in the scan tool
@@SuperMarioDiagnostics ok but let’s say you work for a big company with multiple shops and hundreds of technicians, how do they ensure access for all of their technicians. Will they need a seperate vsp for every shop? Will they only need one account and every employee can have a login? How does that work for larger company’s
do you know that applies to people in canada . thankssss
Yes, it does. If you’re a locksmith or want to use dealer level access you must have NATSF.
"HACK" is a euphemism for "Very skilled reverse-engineering"
All I can say is I hope they don’t bring this to Australia, I doubt they will for awhile we are usually pretty behind the ball
making it so i have to take my car to a 'professional' - any professional - to make a key or DX an immobilizer issue is complete bull*crap.
I have been doing this since 80's when we just had mechanical keys. Name me a time ever in the past DIY'ers made lost or spare keys? The short answer is it never happened. When programmers became cheap and they switched to push to starts is the first time this ever happened. Try making an emergency or mechanical key with your programmer.
Go to an A/C supply and try to buy refrigerant without a 608 license. Try to start a business as a plumber or electrician because you do it on weekends.
@@scotts41252010 Subaru legacy gt. Bought with one key. Added another myself. 2012 Subaru forester. Added a remote start using a blank. Now you can’t say never. Any questions?
Side note I can get refrigerant at autozone. So maybe I’m missing the 80s angle here. Have gauges and a vacuum pump and if I do need to recycle I will take it in. Done the DIY ac compressor replacement more than once.
Get off your high horse now and realize some of us actually want to fix their own stuff, and should be able to.
I appreciate the effort to prevent car theft using modern tools to bypass immobilizer but this is going to hurt the customer big time. The costs are going to be passed down to the customer, want another spare key to your car that'll be $500. Lost all the keys to your car, that'll be over $1,000.
Also after reading through some locksmith forums, they don't want non-locksmiths doing immobilizer work (stealing automotive work from them) and not being automotive techs familiar with all the computers in a vehicle there are many posts of them bricking modules or causing trouble lights that they don't know how to fix because they are not automotive repair techs - they're just people that know how to follow the directions of the locksmith tool that was sold to them for programming and doing "All keys lost (AKL)" hacks.
My suggestion is, don't lose your keys people. If it wasn't already expensive, it's going to get much more expensive in the near future.
I got mine in less than 24 hrs, yes, 24 hours. The only mistake l made was that I uploaded insurance myself. It it had to be sent by the agent. Super easy.
This just a start, all vehicles made after 2025, will have to have a way of disabling the vehicle remotely, that's a federal government mandate,
Keep your vehicles running
@@truth4reelI think the whole purpose is they can be shut down while running. It might have something to with police chases.
I got mine in less than 24 hours I have a record and got mine Audi and VW is making me prove VSP now I am signing up now u might want to double check ur info
Must be very VERY new because i didn’t have to
Would love to join but since I'm based as a part-time business I can't get insurance, spend months calling different insurance companies and no luck. That means I'm out of most work soon as i will not be able to change electronic parts anymore as they are most tied to immobilizer systems. And thieves will find a new ways of taking cars. Nastf is going about this the wrong way, the tool manufacturers should require photo ID, credit card and background check prior to activating their tools, and then send the information to nastf for security check, fees would go to nastf and manufacturer of tools. All stolen and aftermarket tools not sold to legitimate people or businesses would be useless. But this way is just putting part-time and small businesses jumping through hoops to join in. Thank you. Why is nastf mandating insurance if it's our own responsibility? Not going to lie, I had a couple jobs I messed up and paid for it out of my pocket, and if I got sued then I would deal with it when the time comes, but nastf would know which cars I do and what I did if this was for theft preventing purposes.
My liability policy went up quite a bit. I realized I was way over insured. I had a garage keepers policy that has liability with it. I am mobile so no need for garage keepers. I found a new policy that day. I just don't get you guys. It's $500 per year. One job pays for it.
@@scotts4125 where and which insurance is that? I'll pay twice that if I could get an insurance to accept my part time business. Been calling multiple insurances and not even a quote I get. As soon as I tell the what I do they just say we don't cover your type of business. So should I lie to get insurance?
there are too many laws varied from state to state, county to county in same cases
@@scotts4125$500 for one job? You must charge twice for the same job!
My Mercedes dealer should be shut down as a hacks, Charged me $3800 to fix my car and it still does the same thing after they worked on it. Took it back started looking for things to blame me on, all I did was change my own oil, I'm a 35 year retired tech, I think I can change my own oil. wanted to charge more looking for stuff not in Mercedes documentation on how they were suppose to do to fix my problem. I showed them documentation of previous work disputing their claims, as well as oil analysis by Blackstone showing a healthy engine wear wise. They couldn't even follow Mercedes instructions on my issue.
So now all workers need to be businesses owners to have a vsp. Alright we just built a few million businesses over night.
Nope. Not how it works. Employers can get their employees VSP’s. I decided to get an LLC instead
At an added insurance increase. And really, does a business need to go through that?
This is fake its been passed 60 days and still nothing
Love it!!!! $$$$
You get it.