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Stop making LAME Lightsaber Fights!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 พ.ย. 2022
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This is why I love the Prequels, Obi-Wan and Anakin went hard on it.
And also lightsabers are bounce from each other when parring the hit
same with maul v obi
🤨
The prequel fights were filled with unaimed attacks. They just used a high-low sequence with wide, sweeping strikes to make the duels look more dynamic.
@@pyrosplicer85 they also slowed down the sequences because they were too fast
David: When doing choreography, don’t do this!
Luke Skywalker: But…..
Ray and Kylo every fucking fight made lightsabers seem like they were 30 lbs swords and unwieldy. Thier choreography was dog shit and in reality Kylo should have absolutely wiped the floor with Ray the first movie
💀
At least he fixed that with the Darktroopers
Well
Luke wasn’t a jedi master
@@SoldierofKreig In reality there are no lightsabers tf you mean
TLDR: You're trying to kill your opponent, so fight them not their weapon.
Can't believe our attention spans have been degraded so much that we need a TLDR for a one minute video 💀
Exactly!
@@ElementedStop being dramatic, TL;DR basically serves as summing something up
@@hazeltree7738 im fine with the summary i was just making a joke
@@hazeltree7738 it's 1 minute
thats why i love Palpatine's style, he's literally the ONLY ONE who tries stabbing and jabbing motions, which makes it harder to parry than a saber strike with the length of the sword rather than the tip. He actually tries to kill his opponents
Dooku does it as well
Palpatine in the movies looks incredibly try hard to me. The fight against the 4 jedi is the worst of the lightsabre battles in the prequels
@benvergus1573 there's behind the scenes footage of what the original plan for that fight was.. it was meant to be a lot longer and more elaborate but it was done with a stunt double. George Lucas wanted Ian mcdiarmid to learn the choreography but due to his age he couldn't keep up all he had to compensate and cut the fight down
@@goodini026 Yeah, its very unfortunate they didnt use that plan. George Lucas even decided on the day of filming to let Ian do the scene and he got like half an hour to get the moves down. Its no wonder the scene feels so weird. The Jedi look incredibly weak and Sidious just like he is messing around
@@benvergus1573 It does capture the spontaneity of McDiarmid's approach to Palpatine and more specifically Sidious excellently though. The fact that he had to put it all together in such a short time while in character lead to a rather.. dynamic fight from an acting perspective. Those strange 100% ham vocalisations and grunts and weird laughs and stuff are just great, the only two people in the entire star wars canon who make those noises while fighting are him and Yoda.
Not just lightsabers, all kinds of choreography, especially weapons based. Heck, even watching some of the old kung fu flicks I loved as a kid, I have to wonder "what are half these moves even for?"
They're for show/spectacle. It is a dance more than anything.
Dance. That is bruce lee and jacky Chan training
Highlander.
@@JustSomeDinosaurPerson This, and the practice has a name; it's called "Flynning" (named after late stage actor, Errol Flynn). Flynning is a stylized version of "swordplay" that's explicitly designed to be both harmless to the actors on stage (as they're directly aiming for the other blade, not the other user), and entertaining to the audience (who otherwise aren't familiar with real sword combat styles; as the "tink-tink-tink" sound effect is satisfying for most viewers)
NOT all kinds dude and stfu
Meanwhile Anakin v Obi-wan, where Anakin aims for Obi-wan but Obi-wan aims to disarm (amputate after a bit of time) Anakin, thus aiming for his saber.
Well, in the end Obi-wan did dis-arm anakin
@@ChaoticCobra-jo8xy 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I'm sorry, but that's not really what happened in the film. The actors did a great job doing choreography, but the choreography wasn't that nuanced, there were plenty of hits that were just attacks on the blade because they looked cool. The explanation you just gave is one that was given later, by fans
It's still a cool fight, but there are tons of attacks that don't actually aim for anything other than the opponents blade
@@SellswordArts he was still disarmed by a Shi-cho spin. Also with Obi-wan not actually wanting to kill Anakin, but leaving him for dead. The prequels are confusing, self-absorbed, and blind. Just what gave the Jedi the reason of their fall.
@@SellswordArts What about the fact that Anakin and Obi Wan know each others fighting style well enough down to every single movement? They sparred for ungodly amounts of hours over the years with each other ever since Anakin was 9 years old.
In Japanese Kendo, my sensei rarely taught us how to block. Instead, he told us to attack faster, and in most cases, your sword would force the other aside
That's bad though. You should never neglect defense.
@@Saintmadman I think this quote from Musashi captures the idea: "The primary thing when you take a sword in your hands is your intention to cut the enemy, whatever the means. Whenever you parry, hit, spring, strike or touch the enemy's cutting sword, you must cut the enemy in the same movement." I'm not totally sure if he meant it literally, but he probably did.
@@ninjafruitchilled that is true. Your prime objective should be to cut your opponent down. But not teaching your students how to block/parry incoming blows is unacceptable. If you fight against a group of enemies you cannot expect to cut everyone down at once or dodge every single strike.
I think the concept is similar to JeetKun Do: Your attack is part of your defence/parry. In your aggressiveness, you can cause confusion and doubt in the opponent whether they should follow through, attempt to switch to a more defensive stand, or initiate defensively, giving you the edge. @@Saintmadman
Also, he said rarely, not never.
I see this same problem in a LOT of fight choreography in film and theatre alike. I'm glad you addressed it!
Please make a short video with a lightsaber duel with this choreography style!
They definitely should!
they have!
he's actually made a few videos detailing some moves that could be used in lightsaber duels (that are definitely sith like)
and also has a TH-cam short with a whole choreography
He have lots of them😁
Thanks!
@@SellswordArts what I meant was something like a short film with a sort of plot and things like that
Like I would listen to a sith…………..*starts taking notes*
Nah he got that premium content orange lightsaber from Jedi Fallen Order
@@aidcrazysol738imagine being a jedi busting out an orange lightsaber and all the other jedi think it's red and pounce on you
@@Tha_Thiccnessthis almost made me laugh
I'd suck as a Jedi. I'm colourblind.
It’s not a story the Jedi would tell you…
The original Clone Wars animated show did this excellently
If you animate you don't have to worry about actually hitting the other person.
@@PauLtus_Bto be fair those props are not going to cause serious injury. They will sting, sure, but no harm
@@priestesslucy3299 Depends on the prop.
Most recently they've been swinging around what are basically big lamps, which both helps with the lighting as well as getting some sense of weight.
Going a bit more nuanced than my initial comment:
Hitting another person is scary, even when you know they can take it. I've done martial arts training for quite some years and one of the toughest things to get over during an exercise is to actually start hitting with the intent to hit instead of just doing the motions.
When on set you generally have people who aren't actual martial artists doing a choreography under pretty heavy time constraints and they have to pretend like they're not anticipating the hits.
@@PauLtus_B Not if you motion capture a duel, much like the duel between Ashoka and Darth Maul in the Clone Wars season 7
@@arcticfox1108 I think there's a big advantage there as you don't need the voice actors or something to do the choreography but actual stunt performers/martial artists and you don't have to do it on an actual set, so there's more flexibility.
It's very smart and you could arguably get the best of both worlds from it.
...unless you want it to look like real people of course. :P
Aside from being more entertaining and convincing to watch, choreographing fight scenes like this can also be used as a writing technique - you can show a character is emotional by having them on the attack for most of the fight, or split the attack/defense equally between your characters to show that they’re evenly matched. There’s tons of narrative potential in fight scenes.
This basically happens a lot already.
Look at Luke and Vader's first fight:
Luke pulls out his saber first, takes a wide stance, holding it with both hands.
Vader casually pulls out his sword, doesn't really change his stance, keeps it one hand and starts pretty casually blocking everything. Luke might be acting like the aggressor, but it's pretty clear Vader has all the power.
That said, with a lot of modern blockbusters action sequences are pretty much created independently from the rest of the story, often even directed by a different director. So action scenes can kinda boil down to "and then they fight" with, which all the spectacle can only take so far. One of the main reasons movies like the original Star Wars and Indiana Jones work so well as action movies is because they already worked on the page, while what's actually being put on screen isn't THAT technically impressive.
Even then, the big problem in the video above has to do with execution. It's not supposed to look like people just flailing in each other's direction. They're supposed to look like attacks to hit and blocks to actually block. It's simply difficult when acting out a choreography not to anticipate the attacks and blocks and start making movements towards each other's weapons.
"When you're doing choreography, don't do this"
"Ok, ok, Finally, No plot armor, TAKE THIS YOU SON OF A"
"Yeah I don't think we should do that
You can still have plot armor with the use of Force Powers. e.g Darth Vader.
@@benn7991 It's supposed to be a joke
@@chaosarrives2414 Of course.
Went over my head. Sorry. 😣
@@benn7991 No worries, man. You’re good.
@@benn7991 Yeah, it's fine you're good
Corridor Crew has an amazing fan film that has real choreography from a sword master.
was gonna mention this but see you did its so good
The prequels had real choreography from a sword master lmao Watch the behind the scenes docs. Nerds on the internet do not know more than the professionals.
@Han Burgundy Firstly, no one was talking about the prequels. Secondly, the prequels suck.
@@hanburgundy4317 yes, but it was still made to look 'showy', not effective, not like real combat
@Antoni Wisniewski
As opposed to what, though? The combat in the originals was sloppy, as David Prowse could barely move, and Mark didn't know squat, no offense. The fighting in the prequels does look like real combat - watch the making of docs.
Obi wan vs Maul is like the only prequel fight that doesn't do this.
I can see some of that happening between Obi and Ani, simply because they both know each other so well, are both so different in the way they fight, and are both trying to find a balance between doing what they know and throwing each other off. The famous Obi Ani spin where they're both just twirling sabers, because they're both trying to fake each other out, while also guarding from each other's fakes.
Clone Wars did lightsaber combat quite well. Dooku using his fencing style was just fun to see and different to other styles, it gave more flavour to the combat. Other than Ahsoka's reverse grip, her fight with Maul in season 7 was extremely well choreographed.
Biggest mistake from amateur sword fighters, is they attack the sword not the person.
Also, try to look at the opponent's face, not their sword/saber.
The other thing I hate is the switching the lightsaber behind the persons back, like fine you can do your cringey spins if you like, but swapping which hand it’s in BEHIND your back AND just to grab it again with both hands in FRONT of you is the most pointless shit ever and doesn’t look cool at all it looks dumb
@@4am446 Pointless. In a sword fight. I get it. 😉
@@4am446It actually helps.
That's pretty much boxing too lol.
This is exactly what I used to tell my little brothers when we were kids playing with toy lightsabers, but never seemed to get the hang of it. They would just keep swinging at the middle.
Except for that one kid across the street who would always somehow find a way to smash my fingers...
lmfao, I remember getting hit in the hands as well
I still have trauma from the swords my Grandad welded for us, with the old school metal trashlid shields
One of my favourite pieces of subtle choreography work from Star Wars is from the Clone Wars animated series. There was this one fight between Dooku, Anakin and Obi-wan where Dooku was attacking Anakin and forced him to defend while disengaging from Kenobi who was then forced into the role of the attacker. Knowing these characters, you can sense how Anakin is much more of an attacker and Obi-wan is more of a defender, Dooku also knows this and uses it against them by forcing them into positions that they’re less comfortable working with. An awesome subtle form of storytelling and characterisation for everyone involved.
I kept trying to wipe the tiny black dot on the wall off of my phone screen 😅
Duude I know how it feels 🤣
There were several people out there whose profile picture was the standard default picture, but with an eyelash on it.
Bane of many people's existence.
There were also the people that enjoyed watching the world burn and put a small spider instead.
Unfortunately, default profile pictures are now just the first letter of your username.
Hahahahahahahahh so did I!!!
The Knights of the Old Republic's cinematics are very good at this
Qui gon and Obi wan vs Darth Maul was really well choreographed
For good reasons. Originally it was Exar Kuns twin-bade fighting style in the "Tales of the Jedi" comics by Tom Veitch. Lucas loved the idea and they hired a Martial artist called Ray Park to show what that fighting style would look like for real... They ended up casting Park for the role.... and on Park´s suggesttion also extended the hilt of the twin blade lightsaber to make the grip similar to how bo-staffs are normally held. (with space between the hands)
COUNTERATTACKS
As someone with real staff fighting experience, one thing i find unrealistic in lightsaber duels is the lack of counterattacks. Like for the first few its ok. But like if someone aims to your head, my suggestion is to squat down and hit the leg. If they aim for the leg, block it and transition the block into an attack to the privates
I don’t know much about quarter staffs, but to my knowledge they’re nothing like a sword, specifically a German long sword.
Getting below your enemy is never a generally good move. Ive experienced it myself in kickboxing. Its even more obvious when youre fighting with lightsabers. Even if you hit the enemy, what are the chances that he just drags his lightsaber downwards. Did you ever think about that?
@@eeurr1306 but there are actual techniques that involve getting lower or below your opponent…
@@Blizzardholocron "never a generally good move" Notice how there is a word called "generally" inbetween there. Most of the time, you can achieve what you want without having to duck under your enemys weapon.
@@Blizzardholocron And like you said yourself, staffs are not comparable to longswords and therefore definetely not comparable to a lightsaber.
Now this is definitely something I agree with like a lot of choreography just tense to feel dead
This is why I went absolutely crazy when I saw The Clone Wars finale with Maul vs Ahsoka. That was probably the most realistic lightsaber choreography we'll ever get.
Ray park helped write the choreography for that duel. They also used motion capture to film that fight making it the most realistic of the animated duels.
This is why you consult an actual sword fighter when you choreograph sword fights.
Best part of episode 3 Anakin and Obi-Wan when they are both swinging their blades around themselves standing face to face just raving to each other. For fun like two people showing off and trying to out do each other, then like OK let's keep fighting stop messing around.
My headcanon is they were trying to use the Force to anticipate each other's movements, so every time they started to swing at one another they predicted the other would block it so they diverted and tried somewhere else, and so on
@@jamesbentley2544It ia not much of headcanon, but rather actual canon, force force generally doubles as intuition or "luck" They do predict each other's moves and is with most of lightsaber users battles
This is why Rurouni Kenshin was such a feat
The combat weight was intense
The live action or anime?
It is the bane of movie weapon fighting. The 2 fighters swing weapon at each other weapon instead of at the other fighter.
my favorite clip from this channel thus far!
Thank you so much you guys helped me more than you know by uploading this
Did you watch "To the Death" from Corridor? They did their own version of what a Lightsaber Duel should be in terms of choreography. And it's pretty good ^^
Also there's Mikestarwalker. Hes probably the best at making Star Wars fan films. He uses lots of unusual techniques. There was also a deleted scene from either episode 2 or 3 where Anakin fights Count Dooku that was very different from the other Count Dooku fights. Form 2 combat changes everything. However the actor for Count Dooku (Christopher Lee) was at an age where he couldn't play that part.
Omg! Sooooo many films they aim at the swords. AIM AT THE PERSON! You are not trying to hit swords you are trying to win a sword fight! Thanks for putting this out there.
Actually they're typically aiming to disarm an opponent (save for droids) Jedi are not naturally going for the kill.
As an enormous fan of Star Wars and martial arts... *we need this!* The best stunts and action scenes come out of seeing the clear and present danger of the attacks. This is why action movies have fodder enemies. It establishes the potency of the combatants when they find an equal opponent.
Much of our ideas of: "Who's stronger?" (Ala anime powerscaling) comes via transitive property. This works in fiction, but is totally asinine. I still am SUPREMELY grateful to a book called Aztec for (viciously brutal and depraved text accurately reflecting Aztec barbarism) teaching Mme that *ANYONE CAN BEAT ANYONE IN A FIGHT,* fair or otherwise. Combat is a crapshoot that can spin out of control for even masters. A trip, a sunray, an unexpected word ("Martha!"), a birdsong recalling nostalgia, allergies, a singular moment of hesitation, and the greatest fighter in the world could accidentally fuck up and be killed by a child with a knife.
We like to believe we have control over things, and that's what movie's and fiction sell us. Action scenes have the ability to communicate MORE than predictable putcomes though! This is why BETTER CHOEREOGRAPHY is needed. To show deeper examples of drama in MOVEMENT and THE DANCE OF DEATH!
Hopefully Hollywood hires this dude. Disney's been trying to one up old Star Wars, and this would be a WIN, for sure. I just hope this guy learns from Bruce Lee and embraces old school wu shu wire jumps and kung fu shenanigans!
That’s one thing I’ve always noticed about sword ⚔️ fights. It’s only the weapons hitting each other with no danger of anything.
Yeah, I realized this issue when I was a kid playing lightsaber fights with my brother. I wanted to make the sequences feel more defined rather than just smacking both lightsabers at the same time. I never got the satisfaction I was looking for.
Revenge of the sith was the best simply because the duel at the end was a straight up brawl.
Finally i was waiting for someone to make an action about this
Very true points in this video
Another big issue people have in saber duels is locking sabers together for a few seconds for no reason, just to look cool
Yeah until Disney said “it’s too dangerous”
How can it be too dangerous is no one ever dies by saber stab anymore.
@@6thgraderfriends their actors couldnt play fight.... not competent enough
Hahaha good one
@@zarthemad8386has nothing to do with it, it's the lightsaber props. The modern lightsaber prop casts very bright light and has to be very sturdy for stunts. As a result they are very heavy, too heavy to do the prequel style at the same speed
To be fair, this kind of choreography is made more for the sake of safety than lazyness (usually). And if you put the camera in the right angle, you can get away with it.
Nah.
I do live lightsaber choreography. The middle hits (5s, 6s, 8s, F patterns) are done to get an amped up bit of speed or to fill time if an actor forgets the next move. Usually the patterns are as he recommended, though not often in an actual style. You want to see lazy, go to Central Pennsylvania Jedi Suth Alliance and search for the practice fights of either Mike or David.
Which safety bruh
It’s a toy it won’t kill you
@@dermond1792 You can lose an eye though. Had a woman in my old group dress as Rey and her husband as Kylo with a helm on while she didn't wear her glasses on a dim stage. They'd practiced the fight for months, but she got a scratched cornea out of an accident. A choreography-grade lightsaber blade is made out of poly-carbonate and will leave bruises if misused. It can break too, and the LED is powerful enough to be classified as a laser and blind you.
@@robinthrush9672 Safe enough if it means fun
Thank you for this. I always hate the pointless “blocks” like you didn’t even have to block. That saber wouldn’t have hit you. I do get yelled at by my friends when we duel because I target my opponent so they have to block and they are like dude just aim for my saber!
This is what all shows and movies need.
Especially after watching Andor, the mainline Jedi-centric films look so cheesy to me! Having realistic combat would help a lot! (HEMA-inspired or otherwise, they could use different martial arts for different lightsaber forms)
you know what'd be really cool? expanding on how Jedi influenced certain lightsaber combat and how sith and the empire have their own version, and you could exacerbate those differences to make it really feel like there are two sides.
and when you want to show a character falling from the light side or going toward it, you could show subtle shifts in their fighting style. As the difference between them should be based on the philosophy behind their ideology.
@@darkestlight660 Reminds me of the Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy games. The styles were very distinct.
They do have different lightsaber forms. Nine of them (I think).
@@Kreschavier very true! I didn't know this, and I'm not very into star wars myself (although it does seem a bit cooler the more I investigate, at least-the not movie stuff) does the sith/dark side have very many styles?
@@darkestlight660 probably. It's all based off of Katana combat after all.
You might wanna check out Corridor
Digital‘s take on a lightsaber fight. Hired a guy who knows real swordsmanship to help them choreograph it
So did George Lucas. Nick Gillard is a professional, as were Ray Park and Sir Christopher Lee. Hayden and Ewan were prodigies. Whatch the making of docs.
@@hanburgundy4317
Don't remember saying anything against the Star Wars movies.
I just recommended the Corridor one, because it's a different take on lightsabers that I enjoyed.
People always getting offended by everything -.-
@FailedMaster
Sorry lol The OP of the video is in the "prequels suck" fan club, and they mistakenly believe the choreography in the prequels was amateurish and unrealistic. Just saying, that's as far from the truth as possible.
@@hanburgundy4317
It’s alright.
The choreos in the prequels are awesome! But they were made for the big screen and to look flashy. Which works really good in the Star Wars universe.
It’s just interesting to see Classic techniques mixed with lightsaber combat, that’s what I like about the video I mentioned.
@hanburguitndy4317 it is objectively unrealistic
They did this with obi-wan and Darth maul fight. When Ewan McGregor put the lightsaber behind his back to block an attack by Darth mauls dual bladed lightsaber
Corridor Digital actually addressed this very complaint and made a video about lightsaber fights, why so many of the movies are so bad with them and how the moves are ineffective, and what an actual "lightsaber fight" would look like. It's really good.
That why the final duel in the 3rd episode in Star Wars was so good because it felt real they were doing exactly what you were with anakin having a more aggressive style more on the attack than anything and constantly pushing obi wan back while obi wan has a more defensive style and was constantly waiting for the perfect moment to attack
People keep saying this, but it's a lie. They spend the majority of the sequence twirling around, swinging at nothing.
I might have to watch the movie again I’m just going off of what I remember and I remember it looking amazing
@@blaz551 nope you're right
@@SpoonyBard88 watch shadversity's analysis it proves otherwise
@@SpoonyBard88 not really there's one part where that happens for about 10 seconds, the fight last several minutes
It's actually a legitimate tactic in fencing to do attacks that don't necessarily count as "attacks"
It's a way of getting your opponent used to a certain patern and getting them to be comfortable with that pattern, then they eventually leave themselves open for a killing strike.
back when we were in middle school my best friend would legit do that to me
This is how I do it with my friend, yes we get hit in the hand sometimes, and sometimes it hurts a lot, but it looks and feels amazing
Amen! When I was in high school I was part of an actual sword fighting crew. we actually used to put on staged sword fights during City events and stuff.
And how did we get those gigs despite being so young? People really loved our energy. All you have to do is use the sword hits to signal whether you're going high or low in your next sets, or even just to indicate a change in stance.
Now it's fun for both The spectators and the combatants. as your fellow performer I know what you're attempting to do but that doesn't mean that you're not going to be able to contact me and win the point.
Just because I'm doing a three-set hit, and more low than high does not necessarily mean I'm telling you exactly where I am coming at you from, just the area.
I can be indicating that I'm coming for you so that you're ready to defend, and also make sure that I don't swing too fast or strong to overwhelm your sense of safety. but with the right combatant we can counter each other just buy quick indications on each other's swords as we're blocking attacks.
You can practice and be safe, while still being fun and put on a great show.
I ESPECIALLY felt this with Mace Windu vs Palatine. They were hitting each other's blades instead of going for a strike or defending a strike. I never really got why the choreography in the sequels got shat on but the choreography in the prequels got praised.
I think the prequel choreography is generally pretty good (I might have to give this scene a rewatch, but I feel like it’s never specifically struck me as being poorly choreographed), but man the shit that the sequel choreography gets is insane. I won’t say there isn’t anything to critique about it (although I will say I disagree with most critiques I’ve seen) but I can’t think of a single moment where the choreography is like this. The sequel fights are visceral and aggressive. Like, they REALLY go after each other, pretty violently. Like, say whatever you want about the lightsabers acting more baseball bat-esque than in the prequels but don’t lie and say there aren’t obvious attacks and attempted blows
you can tell in the sequels that no character knows how to actually fight with light sabers because they swing out wide and far from their body leaving them super exposed to counterattacks most of the time. Which also means that they use way to much effort in each attack meaning they will also tire quickly. So while you can see the power and effort of their fighting there’s no actual skill or technique used even by a supposed “experienced” lightsaber wielders like Kylo Ren. The only reason each character doesn’t die in their first lightsaber fight is because they all fight that same way which also makes the fighting more boring since theirs little variety. But the prequel fights have more variety and you can see the skill like how yoda has a much different fighting style than other jedi because of his size, or how Obi-wan is mostly defensive and anakin is much more aggressive.
Now that you've pointed it out I can't stop thinking about it
First of all love your videos.
Believe it or not star wars actually has a solid reasoning for this unlike many other choreographed combats. In each fight jedi have a kind of "force" field surrounding them, this is why Saber fights aren't heavily focused on the jedi telekinetic powers bc they're using most of that mental energy in keeping up said field. Going into those areas increases the force required to freely move thus putting yourself at a disadvantage. This is easy to notice when watching certain fights but in particular when anakin is fighting count dooku in attack of the clones when using form 2. Its also a focus thing when studying the forms specifically form 4 attaru (used by yoda ahsoka and qui-gon to name a few) in some in depth things showing the importance of acrobatics and distance to find weak points in your opponents stance and force field. Fascinating stuff i think.
This is why you will rarely see true attacks at the body when fighting formidable opponents unless they are for the killing blow. Palpatines fight with the jedi council is a perfect example seeing as the lesser jedi he slays quite quickly starting with finishing blows on them while fighting more careful against mace and kit fisto
The basic attack/defend sequences in this video are real sequences in the Star Wars universe. They're called Attack/Parry 2, 3, 5, and 6, and they're part of the 6 core moves of Form I (Attack and Parry 1 are an overhead and a horizontal block while Attack and parry 4 are a stab and a spinning block with the saber behind you, meant to knock the enemy's blade out of the way).
I don't think this guy watched the "Cannon" films
He's right tho. A lot of the lightsaber fights have choreography where they aim for the weapon instead of striking the opponent
He's right
In canon I think it’s implied most Jedi try to disarm their opponents first before resorting to lethal force, hence they literally ARE aiming for the lightsaber.
Then aim for the hilt, not the blade
Aim for the hands, not the tip if the blade, hell they don’t even have any guards on them, their hands are just out in the open
Disney hire this man and make him director of the next movie
One of this year’s most popular SaberCon fights (Premonition) has this problem in spades. There’s actually one point were the attacker grabs the defender’s hilt-leaving his face completely open-but she opts to repeatedly hit his weapon over and over again for absolutely no reason.
Just watched that video before seeing this comment and thought the exact same thing. Was wondering if it's because she is a Jedi and wanted to disarm him and not kill him instead. Idk, that part was hard to watch and it's hard to justify especially after she had just seen a vision she was going to die.
Within the sword combat community, Star Wars gets a lot of flak for this. However, most people in the sword community conflate realistic/historic sword combat with lightsaber combat.
Force-sensitives have this thing called "precognition," which allows them to see things before they happen. While this is not always perfect (obviously, or no one would ever win lightsaber fights), it fundamentally changes how Jedi and Sith approach combat. This is especially true when the two Force-sensitives are close to one another and know each others styles (like Obi-Wan and Anakin).
As someone who is also involved in the sword combat community, I totally understand where this complaint comes from. However, it simply just lacks an understanding of how the existence of the Force within individuals affects their combat.
Like, if I know where to defend a strike before it even gets anywhere near me, I'm gonna start defending before the attack is thrown, making it appear (to an outsider, at least) as though the attacker went for the blade instead of its intended target. Whereas real-life sword combat is akin to playing 3-dimensional combat chess, Star Wars lightsaber combat is akin to playing 4-dimensional combat chess.
This! Force precognition, which is definitely canon, changes everything. While the choreography could be improved to focus on more attacking movements, a huge part of the fight is battled unseen in the force allowing the combatants to predict their opponents moves in advance, until one loses focus, and that necessarily translates to attacks being blocked way before a non force sensitive combatant could see and react to the intent of the movement.
@@bobbobert9379 precisely! You get it! I understand the want for sword fighting choreography to be very realistic, but the fact of the matter is that lightsabers are not swords, and lightsaber combat is so much different than sword combat, that it's not really fair to compare the two.
In exactly where precognition is mentioned in the movies other than Anakin's visions in his dreams?
@@IndividualQuestion when Obi Wan is training Luke with the face shield to blind him and the blaster robot. He instructs Luke to feel where the robot will fire with the force rather than react to it visually (hence the reason for the face shield to help with this). The implication of tapping into the force this way is predicting the location of the blast before it has been fired, otherwise it would be impossible to block, since it's too fast to react to once the blast has left the robot, as is shown by his failed attempts to react visually. Thus Obi Wan is teaching Luke to utilize force precognition to block blaster bolts and force precognition is canon.
@@bobbobert9379 That's exactly what expert marksmen and swordsmen do in real life all the time minus seeing through blindfolds. I guess they have precognition aswell?
This is such a dumb stereo typical star wars fan explanation. How did Darth Maul die if he already saw what's going to happen? What is the purpose of hitting the sabers rather than your opponent even when you can already see what's going to happen? Tf use your brain for god damn once for the sake of all of us. Why would you even get into a duel? since you can just see what's gonna happen you can just keep parrying till the end of time, why not just do that and don't die?
Here's a better one, why a few of the attacks try to hit the opponent rather than the blade in the duel lf mustafaar? You just contradicted yourself.
BRING BACK NICK GILLARD(choreograph of the prequels)!
That's the choreography that's by far the most guilty of doing exactly this
Was just thinking this before this popped up. It also sells how trained the Jedi are to be able to block those attacks rather than just hitting sabers
I'm not here to start any kind of fight, but this is exactly what the fight scenes of the acolyte were.
It's the only Star Wars series in where the fight scenes looked real.
One of the details that gets lost with regard to how light-sabers are NOT swords:
When two light-saber blades touch, they lock together unless pulled directly away from one another. There is no sliding of one blade on the other. There is not even angle adjustment, no "twisting". As soon as the blades meet, the two combatants are both holding the same object which has a static shape.
This changes combat quite a lot. Now there IS a reason to attack the opponent's light-saber. You are restricting their ability to attack you with it. To get an attack against you they must pull their weapon directly away from yours - yours could just keep coming in, so it's not so safe or easy to separate the blades and try for a more favorable situation. It's a much more severe bind than with something like a longsword.
Viewed through this detail, a lot of the "bad" light-saber fights make much more sense. And some of the overly stylized choreography does too, since it's actually pretty easy for one light-saber to neutralize another so you can get away with things that would get you killed in a longsword duel.
That’s why I love the sequel duels. They feel like they are trying to take someone’s head off. So many prequel fights are just sabers hitting sabers and a few dodges that are unnecessary as the saber wouldn’t even connect
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I think the biggest change for the sequels is that the lightsaber props actually had weight.
Don't know how much sense that would make but they certainly felt a lot more dangerous.
what an L take lmao ☠️ sequel dueling looks like a 10 year old playing with action figures and making “bang” noises. it’s not engaging at all
@@pastel4kcompare the darth Vader vs obi wan fight in the sequels to the obi wan show. Anyone saying the sequel fights are better is high off nostalgia. I’d specifically say Hayden C who played Anakin has the best saber acting skills. Sequels dueling reminds me of fencing in real life.
Based
I had a sci-fi book as a kid that was a very sarcastic guide to time travel, and with swordfights, it said something along the lines of "despite what hollywood would tell you, your goal is NOT to hit the enemy's sword, it's to hit the enemy's body"
Me and my cousin once had a wonderful fight in our garden in the night. It was snowing. We had our JBL speaker out so it fitted even more.
We made spontaneous choreography, like: „Ok now I throw it and you roll to the side!“ We had even our own cool entry poses and walks. I hope I will see my cousin soon again
Fans praising episode 3 forgetting there’s that moment in the fight where Anakin and Obi wan spin their sabers around and don’t attempt to hit each other at all.
Well, yeah, but the rest of the fight is top notch. And while that scene is silly, it still looks cool. Spinning is a neat trick. Plus it had the follow-up scene of Obi-Wan and Anakin trying to force push each other.
@@zoedorrahm and yeah, it’s still made no sense, often they’re just swinging at the air above them, they do these overly high swings that aren’t even gonna hit anything, it looks stupid, or way too far and they’re not even in distance of hitting. it’s just a mess and the spinning part is probably the worst part, they just stand straight, and sword fights you move back-and-forth constantly, you don’t just stand still and that’s what they did for the majority of that sequence
I do agree completely with you.
Excellent explanation 👏🏻👏🏻
I realized that when i was playing star wars when i was in elementary school. After that i never lost a lightsaber battle. Awesome of you to teach it so it's done right 👍
The Fight between Qui Gonn Jinn, Obi Wan and Maul will always be the best fight in the SW Movies.
Very true. In real sword fighting, it’s not about theatrics, it’s about looking for ways past defenses.
I'm in a saber choreography group n(or was, pre-covid lockdowns) and this has always been one of my biggest pet peeves in watching people do saber fights. Nothing but blade tapping in mid distance, out of actual attack range. Now, I don't mind some blade on blade stuff depending on the intent- if it's a beat attack sort of situation where you tap the blade to create an opening, or if there's some movement going on where the attacker would have hit but the defender stepped back and checked the blade motion (You could say that's a useless block, but it might break up the attack pattern, too)- but I've seen so an choreo fights where it's nothing but blade on blade with NO indication of who's attacking/defending at any given moment. And then those people who just think faster is better, all speed, no change to tempo or letting the audience "read" the techniques.
Original Trilogy did this right. Every pause made me feel the WEIGHT of a deadly LASER focused blade like a lightsaber
Exactly how it should be done, not a toy fight.
I think this has been the difference between weather I enjoy the fan filmed fights or not. Some of them are really good and do this, while others are just hitting eachother sabers. I didn't even notice there was a difference until you pointed it out!
That was kind of the lightsaber duels of our childhood. As we grow older it's a real fight.
Except for that final fight in ROTS. THAT was a spectacularly sexy fight
It follows the trend of unpractical swords not going to hit the opponent and rather the blade of the opponent
Christopher lee spoke about sword combat years ago. You're very right.
This is why I love lightsaber fightsaber video on TH-cam , the best choreography out there no one talks about
Corridor digital did a great job showcasing good lightsaber work. The two main fighters I got to train with. They are students of Anthony Delongis who I had the pleasure of training with as well!
That’s why the Anakin vs Obi wan duel is undisputed best duel in the franchise in terms of choreography
No it's not lmfao
@@sptflcrw8583 okay then what is the best one?
Obi wan vs Darth Maul in the first prequel is a good example of this, and it leads to some of the sickest shots in the film
THANK YOU!
Corridor’s duel is incredible in exactly this aspect, check it out!
i would love to see you guys make a full on battle it would awesome
Finally ! Finally someone is talking about it... It's a real problem in many lightsaber schools. They sell this kind of course with teachers who are sometimes clearly inexperienced and who sometimes learn dangerous movements which can cause injury. And sometimes calls that fighting ...
Well said. In any fight, every attack should make you think "If that wasn't blocked or dodged, it would have killed them."
Honestly as much as the realistic approach like the OT does look good, I just love the overall over the top nature of the prequels. Yeah it may not be realistic but to me it showcases how crazy a practically lifetime trained for user would be in their prime versus someone like Luke who’s got a crash course in being a Jedi and like two lightsaber battles total counting the movies only.
I do however like the approach of Obi Wan vs Vader in ANH though as it gives the feel of veteran fighters feeling each other out, trying to anticipate each other’s moves. It’s not as exciting as the other battles in the movies that follow but thematically I think it works well. I especially like when Rebels brought this back with Obi Wan’s “duel” with Maul. He played it smart and it paid off.
Still my favorite fight in the series will always be Anakin vs Obi Wan just because RotS is my favorite of the movies and it’s so intense.
A fight scene is meant to have either a progression or set up to have an outcome, show a story with the ways in which the opponents fight
the intent behind the prequel fights was that they were actually attempting to engage the opposing lightsaber to clear it away for an attack. the idea being that both opponents can see the future and so you need to checkmate your opponent with a sequence that traps them far enough in advanced that they cannot see it coming before its too late. thats why they attack each other's lightsabers to start every sequence, with attacks to the opponent's body being layered into the sequence rather than ever present.
In other words, its a fantastical version of sword fighting that involves precognition, so the expand and exaggerate on real life fighting techniques. I think the prequels are heavily inspired by chinese wushu stuff, and many wuxia films have the same type of choreography, the idea being that they have superhuman competence in sword fighting so that it becomes a chess match where mistakes and chance don't enter into the equation so the sequences get unrealistically long and complex.
love their explanations,
makes you understand that a real lightsaber battle is more of a swordfight rather than just hitting two sticks together
This is why I love the kylo vs Finn + Rey fight it’s so brutal and raw he’s just hacking away and Finn is desperate then Rey hops in and tries to fight with a sword like a pole arm
cept..... none of them can fight
its soo bad that they had to edit weapons out of the extra's hands in the throne room scene
@@zarthemad8386 I mean that whole movie is a dumpster fire
Do you have any full length choreography fights posted? Would love to see a short film or something with your talent in it!
When I'm training people for amateur lightsaber fighting, I always have to explain that to people. We're not doing choreography. We're essentially doing sword fighting, and so when people are actually learning all they want to do is hit the other person's sword, and what I have to constantly ingrain in people, is that you're actually trying to hit someone. Once people get the concept that they are actually in a sword fight, you get some really interesting rallies. And in a way that's how theater show fighting works too.
Gonna use this, thank you 🙏
Cristopher Lee said it well in one of his interviews. In a movie swordfight you can’t just wack swords against each other. You have to fight like you actually want to kill your opponent. Put your whole body into lunges and strikes. Make it look like there’s a real danger to the hero.
That's why the original duel between Obi-Wan and Vader was the best one.
Yea that’s true.. Jedi’s are based on samurai warriors and the way you explained how it should be done is how the samurai uses his katana they block parry and strike all in one movement