In the lightsaber fight of Qui-gon vs Darth Maul, before the fight, Qui-gon sits. He is calm, one with the force, almost peaceful. Maul, on the other hand, is walking left and right, like a caged animal, barely able to contain his anger, rage. Sublime display of characterization for both sides of the force. That whole sequence, including the follow up fight with Obi-wan, is awesome.
Qui gon probably already knew it was his end, and he was preparing what he knew about becoming a force ghost. Honestly, he was the best jedi ever, miles better than yoda.
actually, this Clash of Ideals in Episode One was so good, that there is a reference in SWTOR The Healing Animation of the Sith Lords is Mauls "walking from left to right" and the healing animation of the jedi is Qui gons sitting down
We also need to talk about how amazing some of the lightsaber fights that are from some Star Wars game cinematic trailers as well. For example, the star wars the old repulic lightsaber duels are choreographed so well that they're overlooked just because they're from a video game. Why couldn't they get inspired from those fights and put them into the sequel trilogy and so on. Great video as always
That’s always been something I’m annoyed about. Luke could have taught her how to use a saber better and Kylo should have already been using it like in the cinematics. The only reason Rey won their first fight was because Chewie shot him so he was at a disadvantage to begin with, and even more so since Finn had already worn him down some. But he’s fully healed from that and if Rey got some actually saber training in that film we could have gotten some badass duels. My disappointment is immeasurable, and the sequel trilogy is ruined
in terms of skill, Duel of the Fates. in terms of emotional payoff, either Anakin vs Obi wan OR Luke vs Kylo in TLJ. Rian Johnson absolutely nailed this fight scene, despite the rest of the film's problems (mostly the stuff with Poe, Holdo, FInn and Rose)
One thing I think you overlooked is just how little danger lightsabers seem in the new movies, barely killing anyone, no limbs being lost. I guess I would put that into emotional significance.
and the fact that apparently anyone can pick up the lightsaber and fight decently. Like how Flin just picked up the lightsaber and began fighting despite having no training what so ever. The lightsaber basically got turned from a dangerous and legendary weapon into a funny glowing stick.
@@petergast7432that wasn’t a fight tho. I think they meant all the duels end with the combatants totally fine. Even when people do get injured theyre good as new right away with their wounds never being brought up again(Kylo and Finn)
@@ajtallent4501 that’s true, honestly I think all of the films have something bad about the fights When anakin loses his arm no one cares obi wan kinda kicks him in the head (Joel Embid ) Finn getting that back massage was also BS Why does maul drop obi wans saber in the hole but not qui gons? Or even pick it up, When he had like 2-3 mins to wait for him in that lazer wall In terms of the fight scenes really the new trilogy looks more like the swings have weight when they clash like knights and the prequels looks like Shaolin monks fighting so really just preference
Yeah, does everyone remember the door from Phantom Menace. Qui-Gon at the beginning cutting through the federation door. Same thing would happen to a body.
@@alexmartin3143 Its like they took lightsabers and turned them down like an adjustable light switch. It is hot enough to liquify your organs, and probably roast most things within 3-4 inches. It would roast stuff in a way bigger range but if i remember correctly they use a magnetic field or some shit to keep the plasma in check so idk.
Honestly, I know my take is extremely stupid, but I understand why a good chunk of people survive lightsaber injuries. Like, most of them get immediate medical attention to fix their wounds Qui gon was stabbed and left there for like 5 mins While I can’t excuse stupid ones like the grand inquisitor, I do understand Sabine surviving after getting immediate attention. Still hate most Disney stuff
I don’t think there could have humanly possibly been a better casting for Anakin Skywalker than Hayden. Played the various dimensions of the character perfectly/as instructed every single time, loved what he was doing and was passionate about it, extremely athletic and really made his lightsaber duels feel like you were watching masters of a martial art with the movements/athletics in and sharp speed. He’s the GOAT.
Yeah I agree. Even the og trilogy duels, which are probably the slowest and most simple, looked better than the sequels because they characters at least looked like they had good form and had their guard up. Watching the sequel duels there is so many moments where Rey or Kylo just lunges forward completely exposing their entire body and it just looks ridiculous.
As a HEMA practitioner and fencer, I feel it makes more sense as Rey hasn't really picked up a lightsabre for long and Kylo is an over-emotional under-trained teenager, and neither of them can fight properly.
One has to praise Disney on this one for consistency. They ditched the Expanded Universe because the Kaitlyn Kennedy Klan knows better how to female force a franchize into the ground. In the EU lightsaber fighting styles were described and attached to some famous Jedi and Sith. When watching the prequels for the first time this was a pleasant surprise. They actually did it I thought. Each Jedi or Sith would not just swing a well choreographed lightsaber duel, but it would really match the different styles described in the EU more or less. Really liked Kenobi's Soresu, constantly dodging, moving close to the opponent, too close for the opponent's comfortable attack distance. Anakin and Windu on the other hand both use the more aggressive style which is more of an all out attack. Again the EU explains why Windu would do it even if we don't get much of his backstory in movies. It is a perfect match for Anakin's nature. Aggressive, (over)confident in his Force skills, trying to crush the opponent with a windmill of powerfull blows. Well, if you throw all that out of the window as KK's crew did you get what we got in the sequels and the shows. Wooden dolls swinging sticks.
my favorite moment in lightsaber fights is when Anakin and Obi-Wan and fighting in their duel and Anakin is pushing towards obiwan in this little corridor and their lightsabers are hitting the walls and creating sparks. I think that small part was pretty awesome showing how completely focused they were on the duel and how aggressive Anakin was being.
@@caprisanh2845 I'm surprised that, obi wan and darth maul fight in rebels doesn't get a mentioned, yes it's very short but also the most heart breaking and personal, other than obi wan vs anakin,
Lol Revenge of the Sith is a bloated movie, and the lightsaber duel is so ridiculous because there’s never any sense that either character is going to lose until they telegraph it at the end: I have the high ground!
@@chrisbarrett2117 I disagree, I view it as a sense of impending doom throughout the entire fight since you know Obi-wan will be fine. You’re being forced to watch something you don’t want to see happen and you’re left hanging throughout the entire painfully long duration fight to finally see what Anakin became who we see in A New Hope
I think the biggest issue is choreography. In the old Star Wars films, the choreography made the LightSabers feel like Swords. From the way they were used and blocked. The new movies make the Lightsabers feel more like glorified baseball bats.
For me, the introduction of the crossguard lightsaber also played a part in the downgrade. Not only the design itself, which is clearly based on medieval european knight sword looks too big and cumbersome, with the handguard made out of the lightsaber beam makes it a risk to do those flashy twirlings compared to the more katana inspired regular lightsaber, the fight choreography of the crossguard saber itself is based on how those knights fight each other. This means that the way to properly use it is to just swing in around with brute force in hope of tiring the opponent. It’s basically the antithesis to the normal/usual lightsaber choreography which is more methodical and fencing/kendo like, full of parry and riposte. That’s why rey was visibly physically tired after fighting kylo, his brutish swinging didn’t give much opportunity for parry since the energy and momentum is too much to be deflected back
Two kids playing with plastic swords in the park can probably have an aesthetically better lightsaber "duel" than what is portrayed in current star wars media.
hell they could've just found some random star wars nerds to deal with the choreographing plus literally a random guy without parkinsons as a cameraman and it'd be 100 times better
I think you missed the most important thing that differentiates the prequels with the sequels. Every character had a distinct lightsaber combat style. Dart maul with a dual bladed saber, general grievous with 4 blades, Yoda jumping and rotating like a chipmunk on coke, dart sidious stab stab, Count dooku fencing style, and Darth vader an unstoppable force.
Oh right... So, in short, the prequels stick to the lore and the martial arts vibe of the lightsaber duels. Darth Maul fights like, for example, Donatello from TMNT with his Bo. And this philosophy goes to every weilder in the series, and how they fight, as well as how experienced they are. Obi Wan, for example, uses both his own Style (I think it was IV) and Qui Gon's style (I think it was III) to fight, notably shown in rebels against Darth Maul. The sequels stick to the OG nindset, where they were just fighting with sticks.
@@javitelee9562 it's Qui Gon's Ataru (IV) that was his main style in the early days and after that fight Obi Wan started to shift toward Soresu (III) as his main focus. He realized that Ataru's agression won't benefit much when he encountered stronger, faster, more agressive duelists of the dark side as he will tire himself out before they do. It's true since he held his ground against Maul, Savage, Ventress, Grevious and Vader in Ep.3 by focusing on defence and waiting for his oponent to make mistakes he can exploit. For the sequels, I must disagree with you. Seeing how Luke handled the dark troopers in Mandalorian season 2 finale, I dont think Kylo who was under his wing in the early training days could have fought like that and lost against Rey who had almost zero lightsaber experience before that moment. Not to mention he got hit by Finn before facing Rey. How the F a trained Jedi/dark side user fight like that? I must agree that fight choreography of the sequels just simply suck.
@@javitelee9562 in the defense of the sequels, i’d like to believe the reason the choreography of our fighters were ultimately ass, was because all of them and yes, including kylo ren, never started nor completed a full lightsaber form. finn and rey never had a master nor teacher to train them, kylo left luke and i dont exactly see how snoke could teach him lightsaber techniques given two things: snoke is disabled and the lightsaber kylo manufactured is quite unprecedented (unless the cross guard exists in some prior legend that i dont know about). and in that regard, yeah luke had a similar way of fighting in the same regard in the original trilogy, but the fight between obi wan and vader was clearly much more refined. I know compared to the prequels it looks minimalist and slow, but personally it feels more like a samurai fight where both fighters are trying to conserve their energy.
I'M AN IDIOT. I never noticed in any of the other films that the LIGHTsabers never cast any LIGHT. aside from like twice. Also, I think the use of multiple cuts in the section where Obi-Wan cuts maul in half really works to show just how FAST he's moving. there's a reason why it worked there, because though it was slowed down for US to understand what's happening, the cuts make it seem like it's happening super quick.
Haha I wouldn’t say you’re an idiot for that. I think you’re definitely right about the cuts during that moment. It happens so fast that it not only surprises us, but Maul too.
@@platinumrug Finn gets stabbed not only in the back but also near the spine near the ending of Episode VII but is somehow able to walk after chilling for a bit in Episode VIII (at least, that's how I remember it)
The Duel on Mustafar has to be top tier, as far as emotional connection and music go. You can hear the pain in Obi Wan's voice, and the hatred in Anakin's. You can see their hesitation, and the music mimicing Duel of the fates, it was amazing.
My personal favorite is the final duel between Obi-wan and Darth Maul on Tatooine in the Rebels episode "Twin Suns". It has everything, the emotion, the way character shines through in the actual fighting, the sound design. Of course, this is leagues easier due to the opportunity afforded to animation compared to live action.
Yeah, that's the coolest moment, but also made possible by just how quickly Maul double strikes with power. I had to slow it down frame by frame and look at Obi-wan and Maul individually to appreciate exactly what opposing movements were being made in that badass fraction of a second lol
If all star wars fans just stopped supporting Disney, and only supported fan films, Disney's star wars monopoly would end, and star wars would get so much better, both very quickly, but people don't do that, cause they complain and complain, but don't do anything about it.
@@ncard00 And we are tribal, disagreeable beings, so participating in such a thing which used to exist, called a boycott in the before-times, now does not exist. People just pour the Dark Side into every social media outlet and think that was their "making a difference." Honestly the internet should not have been invented until we were smart enough to use it, but we would have needed to wait a few thousand years at least.
One thing i observed from duel of the fates was how at the beginning of the fight Maul was treating Obi Wan like he was insignificant. Constantly just kicking him away, shrugging him off, he was an afterthought. A padawan. While the main prize in Mauls eyes was the older more renowned jedi master Qui Gon. Who would have made a much more prestigious kill. Then after Qui Gons death when Obi Wan comes at Maul with all the rage & ferocity, cuts Mauls blade in half. You can see him start to sweat it. & it was at that moment he knew he fucked up.
@@kylercole2834not just the end. He's got a good point. Maul really does disregard obi wan the entire time. Or keeps trying to separate the two to eliminate the master first - in his mind the bigger challenge. Maul was pretty calculating. The move he used on qui Gon to kill him worked because he managed to push qui Gon's blade to qui Gons left side, making him unable or less able to deflect the next two blows to his chin and getting impaled. Obi wan knew this when he killed maul. He deliberately did not let maul pull his blade to the left, and was able to effectively counter him. So it's not a stretch to think that maul would go after the master first... These fights are like chess matches.
After Obi-Wan got separated from him, Qui-Gon was skilled enough to keep pushing Maul backwards and on the defensive, to where Maul was actually worried he wouldn't survive. Only when Qui-Gon was worn down was Maul able to gain the upper hand.
It was actually the very end... when the Sith had the high ground that allowed Obi-Wan to win. Maul had a very clear advantage and Obi-Wan had absolutely no chance... so it made Maul forget that there was one more saber... Sith fail with the high ground... when they have it, they must gloat... when they don't, they refuse to acknowledge it's advantage...
I'd like to add a 4th reason: The Lack of Swordsmanship & Choreography - You look at the Original Trilogy, while they're not as flashy as the Prequels, the duels were simple & had basic swordsmanship & techniques that were serviceable. - You look at the Prequel, say what you will at how choreographed & flashy they are, but if you look at a lot of them, there are a lot of advanced sword techniques & fighting styles that would be plausible (though not the best option) in a sword fight on top of the basics. - You look at the Sequels, there are so many things wrong just on basic swordsmanship alone. Overly large telegraphed swings (some of which not even aiming at the opponent), unnecessary spins, the lack of a guard stance. Even the special effects has error (Biggest offender being the disappearing knife in the Throne Room scene).
Exactly. While Shadiversity has pointed out the many flaws with lightsaber duels, at the very least you can tell that these are based off of real techniques and the characters aren't being complete idiots. I've never picked up a weapon in my life, and I'm pretty sure I could beat Rey in a lightsaber duel.
This sums up some of my thoughts, same with Everlasting Dragon's comment. My only critique of the maul-vs-obi-wan fight is that there are some practical flaws that could be fixed. That's kind of the only reason I prefer the OT fights, or at least Vader VS Luke in ESB, over anything else
They actually should break free from the old type of fighting, I mean it's a sword and force fight, just look at avatar, if they keep dancing around doing moves just to throw rocks, water, fire and air people would be bored, but as avatar improves per generation their fighting style also change. Just imagine seeing cool scene in star wars as dark and light user go crazy and shit with force power. They need to break free from old custom fighting boring stuff. I know their are many things force power can do. Choking someone with it is imaginative. I wanna see more of this imaginative stuff
I’m glad you brought up how Ewan and Hayden just seemed to love their sword fighting. When you watch the behind the scenes, you can tell they really enjoyed the process and wanted to make it as cool as they could but make it dramatic too. This goes for the Darth Maul fight, you can tell they were enjoying it and planned it out. Like, Ray Park and Ewan Mcgregor are insane in that duel in the Phantom Menace. While the new actors may be fans, but they don’t love it like ones before them. Ewan Mcgregor’s family has been part of Star Wars since his uncle, I think, was in original trilogy as a pilot. It’s a difference in passion, and I think the people making Star Wars have lost the passion for duels and other things, but I think their making a comeback and will bring more entertaining shows and movies going forward.
This is something I actually appreciate about them. They aren't duelists. They don't really know wtf they're doing, and I think it's shown fairly well, tbh. They're not as good or exciting as other fights, but they tell the correct story.
In the original trilogy, Lightsabers were only used rarely and were quite conservative in their usage. I always liked how cautiously they were used; remember, these things are a constant beam of energy that can cut *anything* with minimal effort, so you really need to be paying attention when you use them. Nothing could be more embarrassing than running around with a lightsaber deployed only to trip slightly and cut your own leg off.
I didn’t like how in the disney show, grand inquisitor and the third sister got stabbed, and they are still alive. They had the lightsaber clean thrust through them
They don't have to be consciously careful though, they're a Jedi or a Sith. They fight with the force flowing through them, guiding their actions. Basically a pseudo omniscience that should prevent any possibility of self harm with the lightsaber and allows them to go balls to the wall in terms of movements and attacks. It's why it canonically makes sense that such a dangerous weapon is only used by a Jedi or a Sith. They're the only ones who DON'T have to be super careful with them.
The original and prequels nailed the deadly nature of the lightsaber, sequels didn’t get the message. In the pre/originals one swipe could cut somebody in half, in the sequels they happily showed people getting stabbed and sliced with very minimal damage. It was like they were stuck in child lock or something. Maybe all the good kaiber crystals had been used up by the Death Stars.
@@Chzydawg in video games they call it a nerf. That came from an old video games from maybe 2006. A patch changed the swords to be laughable like nerf bats
I want to talk about something in the Phantom menace duel. As you said, there are quiet moments in good duels, when Obi fights Maul alone there is no music but there is a dark chant, something very evil, you feel that the Sith are back and, even if Obi beats Maul, the evil will stay. It's a very nice detail.
From what I've read, that's because Lucas wrote his stories while listening to classical music. When he hired John Williams to score the films, he gave Williams the music he had been listening to while writing specific scenes, giving Williams a template of what Lucas wanted. Lucas also wanted the films to work without dialogue. So the music in the OT and PT is _INCREDIBLY_ important. When the music stops, it actually means something. This is completely missing in the sequels, and it's one of the (many) reasons those films are so sub-par.
@@frocat5163 Disney also completely lacks the same idiosyncratic dialogue style, instead opting for bland Hollywood. The costumes are imitative. The choices for sets and settings are the same two or three: the definition of vapid. New aliens and technologies are just derivative and uninspired.
You talk about emotional connection. For me the greatest emotional moment in a lightsaber battle was in Return of the Jedi when Vader said if Luke would not serve the empire than maybe Leia would. This propelled Luke to defeat Vader. Not to mention the music playing building up to this moment. It was great.
It's an amazing emotional scene. And at the end, Luke stopping himself from killing Vader through the empathy of remembering his own hand being cut, chef kiss.
Because it wasn't about the stupid laser sword fight. It was about Luke losing control of his emotions and realizing he could turn to the dark side, and his father realizing this and redeeming himself. That is what Star Wars is all about. Everything after 1999 that all the mouth breathing Star Wars fans love is about pew pew action omg, duel wielding ninja action!
The part with fatigue is also showed in prequel films too. In duel of the heroes, Obi wan and Anakin are slower when on the droids speeding through the lava bank then earlier on the landing pad and interior and seem to use more overhead attacks to overwhelm the other’s defense instead of speed. In duel of the fates, Qui Gon meditates to be more rested for when the ray shield drops because he is almost 60 and tired after dueling for several minutes, and Obi Wan didn’t meditate which prevented him from using force speed to help Qui Gon beat Maul
@@topbloke1683 I feel like Anakins arrogance would make him duel faster because he thinks he has Obi Wan pinned and he can just end the fight then and there instead of the outcome we know
@@nightwing5740 Anakin has always been aggressive with his saber, preferring power strikes over rapid strikes. So it would be completely out of character for Anakin to increase his speed, believing he has his master pinned... despite the fact if he did increase his speed, he likely could've won.
I really think the lightsaber styles also lack of diversity. Maul VS Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon was so intense for the reasons you mentionned, yes, but also because their fighting techniques were so damn different from each other's. Maul's speed, Qui-Gon's fluidity and Obi-Wan's agressivity towards the end of the duel were all things that allowed us to recognize each character without even having to look at the color of their blade. Even with my godawful eyesight, I was able to determine who is who only judging by their movements. Nowadays, it really is the only thing we can that would make me able to spot the difference between the duelists fighting, clothes and charadesigns aside. Kylo and Rey fight the same way as Finn did, only slow agressive moves with big swings to both block and attack. And what about the Kenobi show ? Same thing as I just mentionned, even though Obi-Wan has been canonically mentionned to be the best denfensive-oriented lightsaber user in the jedi order from that era. My point is... If you prevent a character from having somewhat of an unique fighting style, what allows us to compare their lightsaber skills to their opposant ? How can we consider Kylo Ren to be a menace while he fights like litterally all the lightsaber weilders he's come accross in his life ?
Agreed. I wish they would bring in more of the specific lightsaber styles mentioned in books and other things. Like maybe Kylo could've used Djem So as an outlet for his aggression. Perhaps Rey could use Shii-Cho because she really hasn't been taught much. I completely agree that I want to see differing fighting styles. Yoda vs Count Dooku was easy to tell the difference even if Yoda had been regular size because of his erratic jumps and movements, compared to Dooku's more stable and calculated attacks.
I understand what you're saying, but the sequels do have those unique styles for each character. Finn had that janky, defensive, confused shakiness when he was fighting Kylo. Kylo has that rage-filled yet still taunting feel to his swings. Rey, while having the most exaggerated swings in the whole franchise, also had her own notable style. After rewatching the fight, I do see what you're talking about with Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon vs Maul, and the different emotions put forth by the fighting. Although, take a look at Anakin vs Obi-Wan. There's spots in the fight where you see Anakin as aggressive, and Obi-Wan as hesitant but then a long duel happens, and they look the exact same. I know they trained together, but they should still feel a whole lot more separate then they were
What I love most about the Obi-Wan vs Maul fight is that it is going so fast that every time they are close to each other, it feels super dangerous, like one wrong step could spell the end for either of them. Whenever they separate, it feels like a breath of air before diving back in.
@@badfart7754 Same with all of Star Wars, honestly. The prequel fights look like a dance of sorts, with either person meeting their opponents blade way before it hits them. Of course, it makes sense in canon but pretty much all the fights in the prequels look non-lethal. The sequel trilogy does almost the exact opposite, to the point where some times it doesn't even feel like the people fighting are force-users. The prequels felt too soft, the sequels felt too hard. I would cover the original trilogy as well, but it's been a long time since I've seen the movies and I don't want to criticise something I don't have a good handle on
Honestly, while duel of the fates is good, battle of the heroes (battle and song) holds a very special place in my heart. The emotions of the entire battle are unmatched. you are on edge the whole time.
Another thing with the prequel duels is everyone had their own style. Dooku was so elegant, Yoda agile, Maul athletic, Obi Wan was just cool. In the sequels I'm not seeing any of this, just people swinging wildly which could make sense for Rey but Kylo was trained by both Luke and Snoke, he should be much better. I'm glad you picked up on some of the positives though, I love the lighting of the new savers and I thought the fight in the forest was cool especially with the trees coming down.
But wasn't he trained young also? (I am not sure) But if he was, I do enjoy it because it's more realistic like a 30-40-year-old trying to do the thing they did at 15, Can they do it Yes but horrible if they keep up training and actually dueling.
I mean, Kylo fights through his anger. That’s why Luke didn’t want to train him anymore, so it’s likely that overtime, Kylo cared less for his form because his anger blinds him. That’s part of the reason his lashes out at almost every character.
I liked that he picked up on some positives as well. But I also agree with the forms and certain temperament that each duelist in the prequels had. We even see Luke in s2 of Mando and he’s clearly in top form, everything looks smooth, and that’s the guy who trains Kylo Ren. So why’d he end up going all bats?
@@elijahalbiston Could be just the lack of consistency in the writing but, also by the time Luke build the new Jedi Order the styles would have shifted to light, medium and heavy, at least from what we know from the Jedi Outcast games.
The biggest thing in my opinion is that modern lightsaber fights don't have any actual form used. In the prequels, each and every character has a style based on a real life combat form. For example, Maul uses modified Kung Fu, and Ray Park was brought in as an actual practitioner. Vader's style is modeled heavily after Kyokushin Karate. Obi Wan's style is based in Saber fencing. Dooku is a Foil fencer. Everyone has a very specific way that they fight. In the sequels however, everyone uses the "hit him with a stick" form. They have no idea what they're doing with a sword. Daisy Ridley has prior experience with a staff, but they decided to give her a weapon she can't use well. And we're not going to talk about Kylo Ren.
@@dr.bright6272i love Kylos damaged saber, and the cross blades would work if it was different from a light saber. I always wished Vader had a second crystal in his first prosthetic hand, use force lightening to power the crystal, his hand turns into a hilt, and then a new lightsaber appears that can't be taken. If Kylo got his saber hilt implanted into his forearm after he got his mask reforged, he could've had his fighting style be even more aggressive to show how much he's trying to be evil
The duel between Luke and Vader in Empire deserves so much more credit than it gets. That fight is, in my opinion, literal perfection. It's closer to the sequels in terms of choreography, but the difference is that there is actual intelligence and intention throughout. Vader and Luke aren't just swinging their lightsabers like baseball bats without a single thought between the two of them (**cough cough,** Rey and Kylo). For the first half of the duel you can actually tell Vader is testing Luke. He uses one hand, and everything he does is in response to Luke's attempts to subvert his guard. The second half of the duel is a one sided beat down from Vader. He out muscles, out thinks, out skills, and overpowers Luke at every turn. He employs the Force in a casual, but devastating manner against Luke, absolutely rocking him with machinery. His thrusts and slashes cause Luke to practically buckle under their sheer force. When Luke manages to sneak a hit in, Vader cranks up the intensity and instantly disarms Luke (literally). At that moment it becomes totally apparent that Vader was going *easy.* And then of course, we get the famous reveal about Vader being Luke's father, and Luke's entire perception of life just crumbles to dust. Every moment of that duel is a masterpiece, and it exemplifies every point you make in this video. A movie from the 80's shows more of the fight in one take than most modern SW movies. I can't decide if that's impressive on Lucas's part, or sad on Disney's part.
I gotta say I agree with every one of your points. That dual is in my top 3 because of the amazing storytelling and the climax that is yet to be rivaled by any other Star Wars dual.
Another problem is that the sequels make lightsabers seem like baby swords. Unless you get cut in half, you’ll always be ok in like a week or less, whereas in the prequels, you get touched by the lightsaber and your toast even if it’s only a cut
It never made sense with how that was handled in the prequels before either. A small cut wouldn’t have nearly as large of consequence as being stabbed since the wound would seal itself upon cutting.
@@internetguyperson yeah but ur skin would boil, leaving not only an ugly scar, but also, depending where you got cut, it could be fatal. If you were cut anywhere from the torso to the chest you'd die, most people don't survive loosing an organ to it being inflamed, not to mention the amount of pain you'd feel getting cut could literally kill you.
@@internetguypersonwhile the wound would ‘seal’ because of the insane heat, it would actually cause the blood and also water in the area to boil, which would actually lead to a more painful experience
@@internetguyperson The point of small cuts isn't to leave lasting consequences anyways, its to inflict pain on your opponent in the hopes that they drop their guard so you can deal a blow that WILL have lasting consequences. That's a principle that's not just present in lightsaber fights, but in actual sword fights too.
My personal favorite is dooku vs anikin and obi wan in clone wars season 6. Dooku knew his opponents had opposite strengths and weaknesses. Thus he managed to escape unscathed by forcing anikin, form 5 user to stay defensive, while continually enticing obi wan, a form 3 user, to attack.
What I like to think about in that glorious duel is that Maul has been training for it and together with Sidious studied the Jedi's fighting style. Obi Wan normally is very patient and defensive. That's why Maul gets overwhelmed and loses half his lightsaber when fury makes Obi Wan change his style to very aggressive. When he adapts he manages to push Obi Wan in the hole. Only to misjudge his tenacity once more. Combined with the music, definitely the most epic lightsaber action of the franchise.
It was interesting too. This video made me remember the true emotion of that scene. Qui Gon must have felt some grief himself, not knowing whether or not Obi Wan was TRULY ready. Darth Maul on the other hand, just saw him as a target. One down and one to go. Obi Wan just saw his mentor get killed, but he has no time to mourn, and he has to plan out his movement very quickly. It's very emotionally and mentally well done when you put the thought into it
I swear the Jedi and Sith are two sides of the same coin. The Sith are so cocky and arrogant in their power that they unintentionally leave themselves open for a killing blow. And the Jedi had become so arrogant and politically corrupt that it costed their entire order at the hands of a very strategic, manipulative, and powerful Sith Lord
@@kfactor20 honestly it is, and that's the beauty of it. You pretty much have to get out of your comfort zone or get really into it if you're going to win. Being on the fence can lead to danger
Idk why but the little bit right before Obi Wan and Maul fight where just seconds before Obi-Wan is hyping himself up, jumping up and down to get the blood flowing, was also a super nice touch compared to alot of future fights where everyone can jump into action without a moment to get themselves ready or stretch.
The great thing about that is that Obi is not behaving “like he should”. Less than a minute earlier it was Qui Gon and Maul on separate sides, you could see the aggressive sith walking back and forth impatient like a tiger in a cage that hasn’t been fed in a thousand years, while Qui Gon didn’t waste a second to meditate while locked in. Like any master would’ve. Duel of the fates, simply a masterpiece in all senses.
Yeah first with Jedi vs straight sith. Obi Wan defeating Maul got him promoted to Knight and allowed him to skip the Jedi trials. Killing the Sith that killed a fairly powerful Master was a very big deal.
technically speaking it would almost make sense for a jedi to be able to do that with their abilities. iamgine a combination of levitation, used on self, force pushh, from the feet, and then you got an attack ilke that.
For me you can't get much better than Obi-Wan vs Anakin. Duel of Fates is great, but the speed, emotion, and power of Anakin vs Obi-Wan will always stick with me.
IMO - Obi vs Ana was very good, but it lost points for those dark close up shots where we could not see what the characters were actually doing. Then the unnecessary twirling the sabers behind their backs when they were literally face-to-face was also weird. Like the video says, wide and brighter shots rule.
Too long, too much flashy stuff, too much CGI. I don't rate it. I'll give it points for theoretically having two characters whose motivations we mostly understand and might even care about, but other than that it's sub-par.
@@jmurray1110 Ok. Too much green screen and bad CGI then. Search your feelings, you know it to be true. Also, the sequels being bad doesn't make the prequels good.
@@mikedangerdoesyou're right. The quality of the sequels has no effect on the quality prequels. The prequels rock, the sequels suck and the best lightsaber fight was ROTJ. You're just a wet blanket lol
Yoda vs Duku had me screaming as a kid. Just the fact that Yoda could actually do anything useful was like witnessing a true miracle (my favorite dual)
It made me drop my jaw in awe, but it also made me laugh. Cause Yoda struggles to walk around all movies.... and suddenly he's so nimble and agile.... and then goes back to limping with a cane 😂😂😂😂
@@5Demona5 And his little stature makes it even more amazing. This little green dude absolutely goes to town on a Sith lord and all we've seen before of him is an old man. Yoda is such a good character
This is exactly why it’s a terrible duel. Yoda is above physical combat, the fact that you didn’t consider Yoda useful until he busted out a lightsaber and started spazzing out doing flips is proof that it sucks. All style and no substance.
In the original movies, the duels between vader, luke, and obi wan were based on fencing and kendo basically. In the prequels, they got more extravagant with force jumps, flips, etc, but still with realistic choreographing in terms of strikes. In the new ones, the fight choreography often looks sloppy and sometimes nonsensical (best example of this being rey and kylo fighting the praetorian guards).
Also, sometimes it seems like they are behaving like they are using clubs (which technically they are, but the depiction is supposed to be sword fighting).
The prequal fights actually had two people sword fight, so there was no cheapening of the battle; it was what it was, while the sequel fights are more CGI, and the actors barely have to train to do the battles, vs the hours of actual sword training put into the prequals. The whole thing just shows the decent into laziness of the films, 1,2,3,4,5,6 having top quality put into them, and 7,8,9 being for nothing other than money.
Old duels feel and have a taste that's unique to themselves. Also, characters had their own "essence" that was unique to each and every one of them. The crazy shit of whatever Grievous was doing, the elegance of Count Dooku's style, the mad speed of Yoda, Anakin's aggressive and a bit of recklessness, Emperor's lethality on each strike, Obi Wan's methodical approach, etc. But now, the sequels make everyone look the same, everyone looks like they are trying to bash and swing at a piñata.
You're basing your claim on a subjective perception. But let's go with it. I can feel a difference in the style between Kylo and Rey. Kylo feels wreckless, impatient, angry. You can see it in how he holds his body low to the ground, his feet spread apart, how he twirls his saber, his strong swings. Rey feels reserved, almost like she's scared of herself a bit, justifiably so.
yoda vs dooku will always be my favorite. especially because the first time i watched it, all i knew of yoda was his calm demeanor, and his incredible control over the force. but never really got to see him in a serious fight against a formidable opponent. especially when he whips out his lightsaber and does some crazy double backflips and shit oh my god
"Until this dude shows up and tries to run over a kid" I nearly spat out my soda. You're right, that really was Darth Maul's first act of villainy in the franchise. I bet in his head he was like "this one's ten points" as he swerved toward Anakin, too.
I really love the first Lightsaber duel between Luke and Vader. It’s slow and methodical and plays out much more like an old Kurosawa samurai duel. That said, I also really love Vader VS Obiwan on Mustafar. The tone, the cinematography, the effects, the story, the acting, the music, the way the environment becomes a third character as the fight progresses and becomes more perilous. Mastapeece.
Same, it really made it seem that Vader was trapping Luke with the environment and how there was no where for him to escape. It was like it was just effortless for Vader to back Luke into a corner and was completely dominate. Also you could imagine Luke feeling cramped in the scene and that everything around him was a threat once Vader was using objects to hurl at Luke.
That fight is 45 minutes of nothingness. It's 45 minutes of pointlessly waving shiny sticks around instead of actually fighting and has absolutely zero punctuation or rythm. There is no back amd forth, there is no one taking advantage or losing it throughout, there is no actual development of the conflict, it's ridicolously morbid and bloatedly self grandiose. It's flashyness in place of tension, exploding lava in place of grit and pathos and it's 45 minutes long to make you forget the fact that the entire reason why the fight is happening in the first place is beyond asinine and flaccid. Let alone the fact that it ends on the most ridicolous nonsense conclusion imaginable, which kind of works as a good metaphor for the prequels, darth vader lost what should have been the duel of the saga because george lucas decided triple random triple back flips could replace actually interesting conflict. And as such, darth vader lost because doing a triple backflip was more important than winning.
I think one of the most underrated duels is the fight between Dooku and the Nightsisters who come to assassinate him in season 3 episode 12 of The Clone Wars. The way they animated Dooku is perfect Makashi style. He fights along a forward/backward fixed line of attack and defense and never deviates to the sides, just like real fencing. It's a little detail that was really cool and showed a tremendous attention to detail on behalf of the animators.
Dooku's fighting style really is one of the most standout styles in the star wars canon. I don't know if it's the sheer weight of presence Christopher Lee left on the character or what - but Tyranis might be the most classy, elegant and fearsome duelists in the whole story.
The Clone Wars on average did a pretty decent job of showcasing the differences between lightsaber forms. They still didn't quite get just how fast the Jedi are supposed to be though, but fortunately a lot of the novelizations gives great depictions of actual Jedi physical prowess (as well as a bunch of other force powers).
Wow. Just fifteen years ago, the prequel lightsaber fights were "over choreographed", "too flashy", "weightless", "silly", or "have nothing to do with the internalization of the characters". Now that the sequels are behind us, they're suddenly "peak". Ironic.
Yeah, but that’s all just BS. The original fight between ben kenobi and darth vader in A New Hope looks like two old men barely able to stand up with their sword in their hands… which makes sense since they’re both old. Meanwhile the fight between count dooku and anakin in Attack of the Clones looks like an arrogant whiny brat acting really flashy in the fight, with lots of spinning. Which makes sense since that’s in character as well. The main difference between the originals and the prequels is the technology available to make all the effects and the production value put into the choreography. (Money) Everything else from the dialogue to the character building is close to being the same.
The Maul fight has one of my favorite examples of visual story telling within a duel. The scene with the laser gates up offers perfect characterization for all of these characters. Maul is pacing like a wolf stalking at his prey from the shadows. Qui-Gon is meditating and recollecting his thoughts. He takes the consular’s approach to the break in combat. Probably my favorite bit of characterization for him. Obi-Wan jumping up and down, ready to dart toward Maul is also a great way of showing characterization for him. He’s still a Padawan and he isn’t as collected as Qui-Gon. He just wants to get into the battle and is anxious being split up from his master. Probably my favorite moment in the movie tbh.
@@andersonjosiah Honestly this. I wouldn't say that the sequel fights are masterpieces of anything but at the very least it looks like they're actually trying to hurt the other person.
My most favorite Lightsaber duels of All time is Mustafar Duel. Both the camera, the music, the atmosphere, the choreograph and the Characters is what makes it so memorable.
@Random Guy But it's the ultimate climax of the entire saga, what 5 movies before it were building up to. the most emotional fight and creation of vader.. it had to be overblown
@@user-qo8se6dd4r It's not overdone. Jedi have the force you know. They can anticipate each others strikes. That's why it's so fast. And if you felt nothing seeing Obi-Wan and Anakin fight to the death than that's on you.
8:28 *Fun Fact:* In Revenge Of The Sith, Anakin jumped over Obi-Wan to try and strike him the way Obi-Wan struck down Maul. As a padawan,, Anakin was obsessed with Obi's fight with Maul, he even altered a training droid to look like Maul. But unfortunate for Anakin that was probably the biggest mistake of his life, resulting in the lost of his 3 remaining limbs.
@3:05 Fun fact. In Star Wars canon there is a force power called 'Force Speed' which essentially allowed them to move at superhuman speeds. It was only ever shown once, in the Phantom Menace. Weirdly enough they never show it again.
Another time was in the OT ep V when Luke was about to be carbon frozen. That jump was speeed. I wish they would’ve shown palp use it when windu went to arrest him instead of making it look like real time. Made those Jedi look weak and incompetent
@@phisgig idk man. I just realized at this point that the use of the force depends mainly on the plot and the writer leading the story more than making actual sense ...
The entrance of darth maul was the most epic thing I've seen in movies. Them shooing away the non force user who might as well be non combatants then slowly and clamly derobing while facing off totally unbothered with each other. music blaring. it was just so perfect and cemented a very important monastic theme to jedis and sith that these guys are warriors larger than life larger than whatever else was going on.
Today every loser can fight force users. Every side character gets a lightsaber and is immediatly capable of fighting Jedi and Sith. In this scene in the Phantom Menace, we got a clue what a Power a single Sith can be. But Disney just didnt give a shit and throws Lightsabers around like candy... the magic is totally lost... today they are as uncivilised as blasters I guess...
@@hansirgendwer6030 Yeah I think the moment that broke our disbelief was the moment Finn and Rey (two untrained in lightsabers) picked up and started using lightsabers in TFA without being harmed by their lack of training. Rey Sue even beat Kylo in her first duel which was also the moment that cemented Kylo as a non threat for the rest of the series.
@@hansirgendwer6030that and every single character getting stabbed in the stomach and just walking it off, back in action the next day. Makes the power of the lightsaber and the gravity of the fight less important. In Phantom, Qui-Gon makes one wrong move and it cost him his life, now they just fight anyone, get stabbed, and then live after.
Couldn’t agree more. The Maul fight from ep1 is easily the best in my opinion, but my personal favorite is the battle on Mustafar, between Anakin and Obi-Wan. I think it also nails a lot of what you mentioned. Choreography, music, and EMOTION. Holy crap, the emotion.
the mustafar fight was epic, but unfortunately, the constant cutting between that and the yoda duel makes it worse than duel of fates imo. Even with it edited the way I would prefer though, nothing is ever going to top duel of fates. That set, that music (it sounds better on that set because it was composed for that set) the 2 v 1 to 1v1 against a double bladed opponent...and something about the intensity of those ray shields...it does absolutely wonders for the pacing. I'm shamelessly smitten with the phantom menace lol
Watching your video I suddenly noticed that during Obi-Wan's duel with Maul, when Obi-Wan is hanging in that shaft and is preparing to jump up to slice Maul, the theme of the Force is subtly playing in the background. Somehow I never noticed that before, and the way this theme complements this significant moment is simply beautiful.
Speaking of Rebels, there’s also the fight between Ashoka and Vader on Malachor 5, one of the few duels where we get to see Anakin under the mask. It, too, was exceptional.
It is literally the best duel in the franchise. That is how fast sword fights were. One person moves, the other sees the opening, parries, then stabs. They were really like gunslingers from the old west, dueling at noon, only with a sword instead.
I totally agree with the cuts issue. Yes, I get that it's much easier to film a bunch of perfect 1-second shots and splice them together, than to film an extended scene of continuous perfection. But the latter method makes the fight SO much more satisfying because you can see the continuity and follow the progression of the fight yourself. Don't be lazy and take the magic out of the fight by showing us a new angle every second, forcing us to recalibrate our brains and fill in the continuity ourselves every time; we'll miss most of the fight that way!
This is why everyone thinks Mission impossible, John Wick, and that scene between Steve and Georges St. Pierre are the epitome of fighting choreography. No disrespect to them of course, but there are DOZENS of incredible, uncut super fight scenes in Asian action movies. We need better choreographers and more actors/directors like Michael B. Jordan. That one shot fight in Creed 1 was intense.
Yeah the cuts is often just laziness and I really think it hurts the viewing experience when you often can't tell what's happening. I also think setting matters. The quick cuts can work in a chaotic battle because it can make them feel more chaotic, but when it's a fight between two expet duelists it's not supposed to be chaotic it's supposed to be elegant and so the quick cuts don't really make sense in a setting like Star Wars
The poetry in the Obi-Wan vs Anakin fight is unreal, in many instances you can see how Obi-wan is aware of his surroundings and using them to his advantage (not just the high ground at the end, but swinging of the falling-pole thing first, etc), Anakin is driven on killing his old master- always the aggressor, swinging at Obi-Wan's feet as he climbs the pole, even taking a final swing at Obi-Wan as he backflips onto the high ground. The sequels just don't have that level of story, amazing video
Ok I have this theory (and bear with me) about the high ground. Obviously the basic thought process is that after the duel with Maul, Obi Wan went over that scenario from every point of view (including Maul's) to figure out what happened. However, my thought is that maybe he wanted Anakin to leap so that he could have the LOW ground. He had the low ground when he beat Maul and Grevious. So maybe that's the position he knew he could beat Anakin. I know it's a stretch, but it's still a fun theory.
@@sineadgaming69 It's two of the greatest duelists of the time clashing blades, of course it's gonna be super souped up. Also, if it just looked like a regular sword fight, no one would watch it
Luke v Vader in Episode 5 is criminally underrated imo. Obviously everyone remembers it for the famous line but the actual fight itself is so beautifully shot and paced. When they’re both just staring each other down at the start of the fight with lightsabers drawn is one of my favourite shots in cinematic history
The cherry on top is the story of that fight. Vader is toying, testing his son, probing for strengths weakness. He is impressed with his training. Then switches to force attack. When Luke finally lands a blow he like ‘stuff this’ shows the boy the real Vader.
@@elasmojones I just never see it mentioned when people talk about the best lightsaber duels. I feel like it’s overshadowed by the “I am your father” line but the fight itself is so well done
About fatigue, I think it's worth mentioning that earlier duels had this too, like Luke getting winded from his duel with Vader in ESB or in RotS when the fight choreography became slower and sloppier as the duel between Anakin and Obi-Wan went on. I think it was more subtle and interesting than in the sequel trilogy where the overall choreography is sluggish and lumbering. Both fresh and tired combatants flail their sabers wildly at each other, limiting (at least visually) the impact fatigue has on the flow of the duel.
just wanna say that, the uploader said he wont judge u if ur favorite lightsaber duel is from the sequels, _but i will._ i *will* judge u for liking that fanfiction-tier trash, actually no, that's insulting to fanfictions. It's insulting to compare fanfictions to the fake Disney "sequels" especially when there are high quality ones like that Darth Maul fanfic.
You can get away with a lot more things in animation which might have something to do with that. For example, the author of this video showed a scene that was motion captured between two trained swordsman to get a better feel on how trained fighter would battle. It’s hard to get the same effect in live action unless both actors actors have training with weapons. They have to make some creative liberties to make up for that part. The training the actors do on set can only do so much.
You can do so much more with animation. The Clone Wars show had some really good fights. Obi-Wan and Anakin vs Dooku is still my favorite. As much as I love Sir Christopher Lee, it would have been insanely difficult to get him to move like that irl.
@@internetguyperson nonetheless the choreography in the anakin vs obi-wan fight is absolutely beautiful. Maybe it was the man who stages the fights, maybe director but these fights look nothing but gorgeous without pro martial artists.
I personally loved the Dooku vs Yoda duel. It was the first time Yoda showed his saber skills. I remember being on the edge of my seat the entire time.
One thing to also note: Christopher Lee had engaged in actual swordfights. He gave Peter Jackson information about what it's actually like when someone's killed with a sword, but refused to elaborate how he knew. He was also part of a legendary British spy unit in WW2 alongside Ian Fleming (creator of James Bond). I think we can all figure out how he knew what it sounds like to kill someone with a sword.
Wasn't that in the Lotr production? I doubt he ever had to use a real sword on someone, but there e explaines how it would sound if someone were stabbed by a dagger...
@@arminmariusschmutz6779 He probably heard first hand information of Ww1 even before his service. Where fights could be as close to hand to hand in trenches.
The Prequel lightsaber fights generally had a better selection of actors and choreographers as you mentioned earlier. Christopher Lee as Count Dooku is also another example, given his professional career in fencing and also swordfights in many other films.
@@johnmarc1986 doubtful since Christopher Lee was a master of sword dueling. however it's also possible a stunt double was used since im sure his health wasnt all that great at the time.
@@jamesdick2580 There's a clip of him talking about it, he was very open about not being able to do most of the fight scenes because his legs were no longer what they used to be. He spoke very highly of his stunt double too.
The part of the lightsaber duel between Obi-Wan vs Darth Maul was near perfect, and Obi-Wan calming himself to come up with a way to avenge his master was spectacular.
Great video. It’s also worth noting that lightsaber blades are technically weightless. This means a lightsaber would not function like a sword because you can move it MUCH faster than a sword. Lightsaber can cut from any angle as well. Couple that with force abilities and they should canonically be speeding the duels up slightly on top of the fast paced choreography. I feel like us Star Wars fans understand that instinctively and that’s why when the sequel duels ensued, we were all like yo wtf we taking a step backwards now?
when I saw the duel between Kylo and Rey for the first time, I convinced myself that the lightsabers were 'heavy' because the users were inexperienced, turns out it was just stupid film making. its clearly the lightsaber props, they made them too heavy with the technology put into them, which is ironic because people can buy light-up lightsabers that are so much lighter, its a bit of a let down now, at least Kylo Ren's fighting style was cool.
Lightsaber blades clearly have always had some weight, otherwise they would be completely unblockable because you could just waggle it at your enemy like a flashlight. Real life swords are not nearly as heavy as hollywood makes them seem, look up fencing championships, it's insane how fast those people move..
IIRC, the blades, while technically weightless, we’re said to have a gyroscopic effect once in motion. So once you start a swing, it suddenly wants to just keep going. Which is not great if you’re surprised by a 360 super plasma cutter in your hand going wild. Jedi training was required to be able to guide the blade where you wanted and not cut your own leg off.
The reason I like the Prequel fights is they were shot like a Kung Fu film. Martial Arts fans will know what I mean. Wide shots, no quick cuts, no shaky cam, you see the actors' faces doing the moves, the fight tells a story, close-up reaction shots so you know how the characters are feeling.
George Lucas was massively influenced by Akira Kurosawa's cinematic style, long shots, wide angles, and holding a frame for a time to to carry it's emotional weight.
@@mac5917 I agree. And then when he says It again in the Obi-Wan series It just seems forced and just frankly Cringe! But in Revenge of the Sith It was a Masterful line and I’ll never forget my ‘Holy Shit’ feeling sitting in the Theatre in May 2005 when I was 14.
It's amazing how much *time and effort* was put into the choreography of that fight. It was pretty much the centerpiece of the entire film. We knew it was coming, but seeing a lightsaber collide with another that wasn't red was jarring. A true masterpiece.
This is exactly. The prequel ones are not very good. They look impressive, obviously complex choreography but they are pretty lifeless. anakin vs obi had the emotion drained out of it with its bloat and absurd details
@@nothingisawesome Ya mean the part where a teacher and student, who practically became brothers now have to kill each other? One seeking domination of the Galaxy, the other having to stop him?
@@hammerh3ad019 yeah, the one where they twirl their lightsabers in front of each other without even trying to lay a hit. The prequel fights are dumb once you get past the spectacle
@@DONWASABIJUAN the thing about Anakin is, that he's a massive show-off, if you've ever seen Clone Wars you know what im talking about. Obi-Wan knows that as well so he tries to keep up with Anakin's bs.
The real reason is that the prequels had choreographed fights and people complained. So now Disney doesn't do choreographed fights. Disney is all about avoiding anything that reminds people of the prequel
Before the sequel trilogy, duels always gave me the same feeling. That the duelists are doing something incredibly important that has galaxy wide implications. Just two people, alone, anticipating the next step. A methodical chess match with fatal consequences. It made me think I was watching something important because of how few and far between they were.
@@kaboose111 I think he talking about how they had true tension, which I agree; the intensity was real because their fights had important/plot-effecting outcomes, whereas in the new fights the tension was fake created by music and effects and in terms of effect there was minimal impact
I'm surprised you didn't mention the sound effects in the Maul fight. I test new sound systems with that fight. Those lightsabers clashing sound like thunderbolts. It really gives an impression just how powerful those weapons are.
@Darth Gonk Studios that's not canon to the films. They sound like that because the sound designer made them like that because it sounds more threatening.
I remember before the sequels came out, I thought "no matter how bad the films end up being, at the very least we'll get some great lightsaber duels" (due to production value and modern special effects) And then even that ended up not being true. Those films were disappointments in every way lol
Step 1: Don't hire any good choreographers to plan your fight scenes. Step 2: Don't use stunt doubles, in spite of having plenty of money to hire them. Step 3: Hire George Williams to score the fights, then don't use half his music. Step 4: Use copious shaky cam to cover up the disaster of a fight scene. Step 5: Ruin a franchise worth billions by mismanaging it. Step 6: ??? Step 7: Lose money!
@@alexlowe2054 except they lost zero money and made literal billions. Thats what yall sequel haters like to forget. Oh, and they consistently had better reviews too. You're just the next generation of ppl who were whining about the prequels, the movies yall prasining now.
The sequels will always be looked at as a disappointment. A lot of fans (myself included) reject these as canon sequels they're so bad. The Dragonball franchise had this problem too with Dragonball GT. Where for years it was considered a canon sequel to the most popular Dragonball Z series but fans then rejected GT as canon. Eventually they disavowed it completely and made a more respected sequel with Dragonball Super. I bring that up bc I hope Star Wars does the same eventually.
When it comes to my fav duels 1. Anakin vs Obi-Wan in RotS 2. Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon vs Maul 3. Ahsoka vs Maul Tho I do have to also give an honourable mention to both of the Dooku live action duels, especially since Christopher Lee, being a veteran himself, would constantly be helping with the choreography of every fighting scene in the movies he was a part of, wanting to make them more realistic and believable, and imo it's really visible in these duels
Ahsoka vs Maul? A cartoon? are you kidding me? The fact that this is even a debate is such a letdown to me. If you’re gonna rank saber duels, don’t include a some stupid spinoff bs. This just proves that Star Wars has been ruined, and the newer generation is just gonna sit and watch it burn. I know everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but so am I, don’t @ me.
@@willmcdaniel7979 well, despite them being cartoons, they still are imo some of the greater fights in the series. If the list was longer then I'd also put the Maul vs Obi-Wan fight from Rebels due to the style in which it was made, as well as the emotional weight it has
One point I was thinking we'd see raised is from the shift in the danger light sabers pose. Getting hit by a light saber used to mean death or maiming, but recent films show them as easily stopped or barely causing a scratch. It's hard to care about a fight when there's little danger involved.
a character in the obiwan show survived a lightsaber being plunged directly into their chest, TWICE. being stabbed by basically anything like that would kill you but especially somethiung that melts triple layered steel doors.
@@brandonarzillo8561 Yada, yada, darkside powers. It's the same logical loophole of any soft magic system - because there isn't a clearly defined limit to what the Force can and can't do, we just need to accept that because they survived otherwise mortal wounds, they must have used the Force to do it. Why didn't Qui-Gon do it also? *Shrugs.*
I always like the detail that when obi-wan defeats maul he uses Qui-Gon's saber, a metaphor for him transitioning from a padawan literally rising to be a new master
The only thing modern lightsaber fights have over the older ones is there’s much more weight, it seems more dangerous to get hit. It’s cause the old ones have such good choreography, and they want to show it all so they do wide shots for a lot of the fights. But you also know no one’s getting hurt or killed in a wide shot so your not really feeling any suspense.
Also the fact that the sequel duels started using what I call “Playground moves” like using the Force to block lightsabers or turning the lightsaber off to switch hands plus the insta kill by turning the lightsaber on directly at your opponent, it’s always something we did as kids (before it led to arguments to how the Force works). Something we’d see in the Ryan vs Dorkman too, but seeing this meta usage of the lightsabers in duels on-screen breaks the immersion so much 😭
@@kingjonstarkgeryan8573 exactly! I remember seeing that cool shot in the KOTOR cinematic as a kid, stopping the Lightsaber blade; by hand, but it was done in way that didn’t break immersion
It’s also plain silly they turn off their lightsabers during fights because traditionally both sith AND Jedi look down upon it, the Jedi think it’s dishonorable and sith think it’s pure cowardice and weakness
@@HydroniteTB I get so heated about the lightsaber switching off thing, especially the explanation that it's "frowned upon". There are several real life bladework techniques that involve slipping out of a bind to land a fast tricky cut and there's no reason that the Sith (the faction of renowned deceivers so dishonorable that they always murder their masters and manipulate from the shadows) would refuse to use a simple and probably not even all that effective trick meant to accomplish the same thing. It's just after-the-fact lore excuses as to why no one in canon is seen doing it.
Gonna be honest, my favorite duel was Malgus vs Satele in the second Old Republic trailer: Hope. It is easy to see their differences in fighting styles, lightsaber forms, and the way that each character thinks. Even if you don't know those characters, you know what ideals they stand for, and imo it makes it easier to connect to them even though you may have never heard of them.
Honestly one of my top 5 has gotta be Malgus and his master vs Satele and her master in the "Return" trailer. Especially after Satele leaves, her master holds off both Sith with amazing skill until Malgus goes full on brute force.
@@alphawolf7417Return is one of the most awesome trailers of all time. The lightsaber fight was epic, but even the "martials" were awesome. The scene with Niko Okarr (the smuggler) whipping his guns out gives me chills to think about.
I love it when the duelists can direct and redirect their saber strikes and defenses like it’s one full swing combo that just turns so smooth and yet you feel whenever the lightsabers clash but instead of being disoriented by it, you redirect it into a counter attack which can turn into some really smooth choreographing
My favorite lightsaber duel was the Cloud City one between Luke and Vader. It has narrative purpose, builds up to the most iconic moment in Star Wars history, and the fighting, although more slowly paced, is great. The emotional weight behind it is fantastic; you see that Luke wants to avenge Obi-Wan, his father, and his friends, before his world is turned upside down by the end.
My favorite is Luke vs Vader in Return of the Jedi. The emotion is incredible, and the story being told holds it up even though there is very little fighting. Luke refusing to fight, believing the light will be his strength...Vader provoking him into attacking full of rage...the theme that plays as they strafe across the throne room....Luke disarms Vader and sees that victory through anger will never be true victory. Throwing away his weapon and trusting in the love of his father to defeat the Emperor. It's freaking amazing.
Never in any movie did I go from hating/fearing a character to feeling completely sorry for more than Vader in that moment. If you look close, that moment Luke yells "NO!" and ignites his saber you can see Vader's eyes and the fear behind them.
A lot of my appreciation of that fight is the footwork, Luke is pushed back, then flips things and Vader is backpedaling. Constantly, both are either maintaining balance, or trying to do so. None of the flashy unbalancing maneuver's that dominated a lot of the prequels fights, nothing that would take their eyes off each other for an instant that isn't forced by their opponent. It instinctively holds up as a confrontation, rather than some co-operative performance.
I loved the maul and obiwan fight, but honestly the Anakin obiwan fight in episode 3 will always stand out as my favorite. The environment changes so much, the very environment exploding with anger and hurt just like the characters. The strikes they make and the environment show the way they feel inside perfectly and it is all topped off with one of the best tracks in the franchise
I love that Maul fight when Qui-Gon can't get a saber swing in and instead decides to punch Maul in the face off the platform. It's the best example of the sword being the extension of the arm I've seen. When he can just go from sword to literal arm and back. Just so fun
Not sure if it was mentioned in earlier comments but Obi-Wan also bisects Darth Maul with Qui-Gonn's lightsaber. You were talking about emotion and poetry in that battle but I felt that Obi-Wan avenging Qui-Gonn with Qui-Gonn's blade was probably the cherry on top for that scene.
Vader Vs. Luke in ROTJ will always be my favorite fight. It lacks the polish of the prequel fights, but the combination of weariness and triumph Mark Hamill displays after cutting off Vader's hand and throwing away his lightsaber will always be one of the best moments in Star Wars. I'm also partial to the old style of fighting, like all the sabers have massive amounts of weight behind them.
Seeing such a physically slight man impose himself on a monstrous opponent through sheer rage is the best depiction of the dark side on film. Luke broke Vader’s will in thirty seconds, and it still sends chills up my spine.
That had so much weight to it. For a moment I really thought, that Luke would actually turn to the dark side. Then the sequels really did make him turn to the dark side.
In the lightsaber fight of Qui-gon vs Darth Maul, before the fight, Qui-gon sits. He is calm, one with the force, almost peaceful. Maul, on the other hand, is walking left and right, like a caged animal, barely able to contain his anger, rage. Sublime display of characterization for both sides of the force. That whole sequence, including the follow up fight with Obi-wan, is awesome.
Especially the obi portion. He comes in so strong after qui got sliced
Qui gon probably already knew it was his end, and he was preparing what he knew about becoming a force ghost.
Honestly, he was the best jedi ever, miles better than yoda.
@Agustín Franco Yoda is way stronger than Qui Gon. But Qui Gon has a better understanding of the Force.
@@limitlesssky3050 i said better jedi, not more powerful
actually, this Clash of Ideals in Episode One was so good, that there is a reference in SWTOR
The Healing Animation of the Sith Lords is Mauls "walking from left to right" and the healing animation of the jedi is Qui gons sitting down
We also need to talk about how amazing some of the lightsaber fights that are from some Star Wars game cinematic trailers as well. For example, the star wars the old repulic lightsaber duels are choreographed so well that they're overlooked just because they're from a video game. Why couldn't they get inspired from those fights and put them into the sequel trilogy and so on. Great video as always
This is straight facts. Those trailers are among the most entertaining Star Wars fights in the franchise. Great point and thank you! 👊🏽
I LOVED those trailers for the duels
That’s always been something I’m annoyed about. Luke could have taught her how to use a saber better and Kylo should have already been using it like in the cinematics. The only reason Rey won their first fight was because Chewie shot him so he was at a disadvantage to begin with, and even more so since Finn had already worn him down some. But he’s fully healed from that and if Rey got some actually saber training in that film we could have gotten some badass duels.
My disappointment is immeasurable, and the sequel trilogy is ruined
nothing will ever go harder than 15 red lightsabers igniting in darkness. i’m tearing up just thinking about it
in terms of skill, Duel of the Fates. in terms of emotional payoff, either Anakin vs Obi wan OR Luke vs Kylo in TLJ. Rian Johnson absolutely nailed this fight scene, despite the rest of the film's problems (mostly the stuff with Poe, Holdo, FInn and Rose)
One thing I think you overlooked is just how little danger lightsabers seem in the new movies, barely killing anyone, no limbs being lost. I guess I would put that into emotional significance.
and the fact that apparently anyone can pick up the lightsaber and fight decently. Like how Flin just picked up the lightsaber and began fighting despite having no training what so ever. The lightsaber basically got turned from a dangerous and legendary weapon into a funny glowing stick.
Bruh Han Solo got capped in the new trilogy 😂
@@isorstho7378 Finn was force sensitive and also likely trained with those melee weapons that clone troopers had so he probs had some experience there
@@petergast7432that wasn’t a fight tho. I think they meant all the duels end with the combatants totally fine. Even when people do get injured theyre good as new right away with their wounds never being brought up again(Kylo and Finn)
@@ajtallent4501 that’s true, honestly I think all of the films have something bad about the fights
When anakin loses his arm no one cares obi wan kinda kicks him in the head (Joel Embid )
Finn getting that back massage was also BS
Why does maul drop obi wans saber in the hole but not qui gons? Or even pick it up, When he had like 2-3 mins to wait for him in that lazer wall
In terms of the fight scenes really the new trilogy looks more like the swings have weight when they clash like knights and the prequels looks like Shaolin monks fighting so really just preference
You forgot the part where the person gets stabbed but is chillin latter
Yeah, does everyone remember the door from Phantom Menace. Qui-Gon at the beginning cutting through the federation door. Same thing would happen to a body.
@@alexmartin3143 Its like they took lightsabers and turned them down like an adjustable light switch. It is hot enough to liquify your organs, and probably roast most things within 3-4 inches. It would roast stuff in a way bigger range but if i remember correctly they use a magnetic field or some shit to keep the plasma in check so idk.
I think this is important because it ruins the immersion and stakes which isn't helped when you don't care about the characters anyway
It was from Asoka when Sabine gets stabbed in the stomach and barley has a bruise the next day
Honestly, I know my take is extremely stupid, but I understand why a good chunk of people survive lightsaber injuries.
Like, most of them get immediate medical attention to fix their wounds
Qui gon was stabbed and left there for like 5 mins
While I can’t excuse stupid ones like the grand inquisitor, I do understand Sabine surviving after getting immediate attention.
Still hate most Disney stuff
Can't believe you didn't mention just how much of a beast Hayden was behind the scenes while training for these fights.
20 years later and 42 year old haydens still got it, here from ahsoka episode 5
Choreography from bts was insane.
@clairemadeinheaven he probably had to hold back too
@@clairemadeinheaven Hayden made Rosario look slo mo
I don’t think there could have humanly possibly been a better casting for Anakin Skywalker than Hayden. Played the various dimensions of the character perfectly/as instructed every single time, loved what he was doing and was passionate about it, extremely athletic and really made his lightsaber duels feel like you were watching masters of a martial art with the movements/athletics in and sharp speed. He’s the GOAT.
Anakin against the younglings will always be my favorite one. The rage in his eyes and the no match that it was
They shouldn't have taunted him
They sadly cut the scene😢
i wish they showed it on screen
@@hirochavez2969 Bro, that would just make RotS an instant NC-17 rating
@@fallbright good... what ever that is
For me it’s the lack of form. Each Jedi in the prequels had a unique fighting style but in the sequels they act like they’re swinging baseball bats
Yeah I agree. Even the og trilogy duels, which are probably the slowest and most simple, looked better than the sequels because they characters at least looked like they had good form and had their guard up. Watching the sequel duels there is so many moments where Rey or Kylo just lunges forward completely exposing their entire body and it just looks ridiculous.
As a HEMA practitioner and fencer, I feel it makes more sense as Rey hasn't really picked up a lightsabre for long and Kylo is an over-emotional under-trained teenager, and neither of them can fight properly.
I didn’t even think of that, but you’re right. They each had their own fighting style.
@@obufriend7612 Pillow fighting cousins they are indeed.
One has to praise Disney on this one for consistency. They ditched the Expanded Universe because the Kaitlyn Kennedy Klan knows better how to female force a franchize into the ground.
In the EU lightsaber fighting styles were described and attached to some famous Jedi and Sith. When watching the prequels for the first time this was a pleasant surprise. They actually did it I thought. Each Jedi or Sith would not just swing a well choreographed lightsaber duel, but it would really match the different styles described in the EU more or less. Really liked Kenobi's Soresu, constantly dodging, moving close to the opponent, too close for the opponent's comfortable attack distance.
Anakin and Windu on the other hand both use the more aggressive style which is more of an all out attack. Again the EU explains why Windu would do it even if we don't get much of his backstory in movies. It is a perfect match for Anakin's nature. Aggressive, (over)confident in his Force skills, trying to crush the opponent with a windmill of powerfull blows.
Well, if you throw all that out of the window as KK's crew did you get what we got in the sequels and the shows. Wooden dolls swinging sticks.
"You wouldn't watch a real fight wearing binoculars."
Leslye Headland - "This is a great idea for my show."
who?
Exactly 😂
my favorite moment in lightsaber fights is when Anakin and Obi-Wan and fighting in their duel and Anakin is pushing towards obiwan in this little corridor and their lightsabers are hitting the walls and creating sparks. I think that small part was pretty awesome showing how completely focused they were on the duel and how aggressive Anakin was being.
Saaame. Love the sounds of the sabers hitting the walls too.
@@caprisanh2845 omg yes. it was so great. i wish they had more moments like that where the lightsabers are creating collateral damage
@@caprisanh2845 I'm surprised that, obi wan and darth maul fight in rebels doesn't get a mentioned, yes it's very short but also the most heart breaking and personal, other than obi wan vs anakin,
In my opinion, the Mustafar duel played a MASSIVE role in making Revenge of the Sith one of my favorite movies of all time.
You and the rest of us bud
They practiced scene well filming the entire movie up until these scene. The love hayden and mcgregor put into this scene is unreal
You can tell they trained hard for that fight too man
Lol Revenge of the Sith is a bloated movie, and the lightsaber duel is so ridiculous because there’s never any sense that either character is going to lose until they telegraph it at the end: I have the high ground!
@@chrisbarrett2117 I disagree, I view it as a sense of impending doom throughout the entire fight since you know Obi-wan will be fine. You’re being forced to watch something you don’t want to see happen and you’re left hanging throughout the entire painfully long duration fight to finally see what Anakin became who we see in A New Hope
I think the biggest issue is choreography. In the old Star Wars films, the choreography made the LightSabers feel like Swords. From the way they were used and blocked. The new movies make the Lightsabers feel more like glorified baseball bats.
Just..... yes
I've never heard a more apt description of what the lightsabers are like in the new movies.
omg so true.. Fkcing baseball bats. Instead of elegant sword-like weapons with thusadns years of history
For me, the introduction of the crossguard lightsaber also played a part in the downgrade. Not only the design itself, which is clearly based on medieval european knight sword looks too big and cumbersome, with the handguard made out of the lightsaber beam makes it a risk to do those flashy twirlings compared to the more katana inspired regular lightsaber, the fight choreography of the crossguard saber itself is based on how those knights fight each other. This means that the way to properly use it is to just swing in around with brute force in hope of tiring the opponent. It’s basically the antithesis to the normal/usual lightsaber choreography which is more methodical and fencing/kendo like, full of parry and riposte. That’s why rey was visibly physically tired after fighting kylo, his brutish swinging didn’t give much opportunity for parry since the energy and momentum is too much to be deflected back
Or the technology was that advanced to make the scenes more fast paced like the prequels.
Two kids playing with plastic swords in the park can probably have an aesthetically better lightsaber "duel" than what is portrayed in current star wars media.
hell I've done it bro
All Women are Queens!
IF SHE BREATHES... SHE'S A THOOOOOOOT! AAAARRRGGGHH
hell they could've just found some random star wars nerds to deal with the choreographing plus literally a random guy without parkinsons as a cameraman and it'd be 100 times better
I think you missed the most important thing that differentiates the prequels with the sequels.
Every character had a distinct lightsaber combat style. Dart maul with a dual bladed saber, general grievous with 4 blades, Yoda jumping and rotating like a chipmunk on coke, dart sidious stab stab, Count dooku fencing style, and Darth vader an unstoppable force.
Whereas in the sequel trilogy everyone just constantly heave-swings lightsabers at each other like they're baseball bats.
Oh right...
So, in short, the prequels stick to the lore and the martial arts vibe of the lightsaber duels. Darth Maul fights like, for example, Donatello from TMNT with his Bo. And this philosophy goes to every weilder in the series, and how they fight, as well as how experienced they are. Obi Wan, for example, uses both his own Style (I think it was IV) and Qui Gon's style (I think it was III) to fight, notably shown in rebels against Darth Maul.
The sequels stick to the OG nindset, where they were just fighting with sticks.
@@javitelee9562 it's Qui Gon's Ataru (IV) that was his main style in the early days and after that fight Obi Wan started to shift toward Soresu (III) as his main focus. He realized that Ataru's agression won't benefit much when he encountered stronger, faster, more agressive duelists of the dark side as he will tire himself out before they do. It's true since he held his ground against Maul, Savage, Ventress, Grevious and Vader in Ep.3 by focusing on defence and waiting for his oponent to make mistakes he can exploit.
For the sequels, I must disagree with you. Seeing how Luke handled the dark troopers in Mandalorian season 2 finale, I dont think Kylo who was under his wing in the early training days could have fought like that and lost against Rey who had almost zero lightsaber experience before that moment. Not to mention he got hit by Finn before facing Rey. How the F a trained Jedi/dark side user fight like that? I must agree that fight choreography of the sequels just simply suck.
I just wiah we'd get to see darth Jar-Jar's drunken style. It would have been my favorite fight(s) for sure *sigh*
@@javitelee9562 in the defense of the sequels, i’d like to believe the reason the choreography of our fighters were ultimately ass, was because all of them and yes, including kylo ren, never started nor completed a full lightsaber form. finn and rey never had a master nor teacher to train them, kylo left luke and i dont exactly see how snoke could teach him lightsaber techniques given two things: snoke is disabled and the lightsaber kylo manufactured is quite unprecedented (unless the cross guard exists in some prior legend that i dont know about). and in that regard, yeah luke had a similar way of fighting in the same regard in the original trilogy, but the fight between obi wan and vader was clearly much more refined. I know compared to the prequels it looks minimalist and slow, but personally it feels more like a samurai fight where both fighters are trying to conserve their energy.
I'M AN IDIOT. I never noticed in any of the other films that the LIGHTsabers never cast any LIGHT. aside from like twice. Also, I think the use of multiple cuts in the section where Obi-Wan cuts maul in half really works to show just how FAST he's moving. there's a reason why it worked there, because though it was slowed down for US to understand what's happening, the cuts make it seem like it's happening super quick.
Haha I wouldn’t say you’re an idiot for that. I think you’re definitely right about the cuts during that moment. It happens so fast that it not only surprises us, but Maul too.
@DBfan106 You're not alone, my friend. I'll be damned if I noticed that before this video slaped me in the face with the truth. 🤣
Attack of the clones
@@vengeanceconscious9774 that was a typo, I meant to say 'in MOST of any of the other films'. because I remembered that part specifically.
@@DBfan106 oh lol
For me, the main problem is that the lightsaber itself has changed, now it's just a club, and not a saber that can cut you.
More of a glorified pool noodle. You can be stabbed through the heart and still live in the new media, despite it being a fatal blow in 1-6.
@@realtimberstalker What new media besides the new Star Wars game shows someone getting stabbed through the heart and living?
@swandpie That's an example. Like how does Finn survive getting his spine sliced in half?
@@platinumrug Finn gets stabbed not only in the back but also near the spine near the ending of Episode VII but is somehow able to walk after chilling for a bit in Episode VIII (at least, that's how I remember it)
It has... weight on it for some reason.
Light doesn't have weight.
The Duel on Mustafar has to be top tier, as far as emotional connection and music go. You can hear the pain in Obi Wan's voice, and the hatred in Anakin's. You can see their hesitation, and the music mimicing Duel of the fates, it was amazing.
Yeah, similar to the final dual Luke vs Darth vader in ROTJ. Not as spectacular, but a lot of emotions.
My personal favorite is the final duel between Obi-wan and Darth Maul on Tatooine in the Rebels episode "Twin Suns". It has everything, the emotion, the way character shines through in the actual fighting, the sound design. Of course, this is leagues easier due to the opportunity afforded to animation compared to live action.
The double-block back to front by Obi-wan is just amazing to watch.
That's why I think it's the best saber duel ever.
Straight facts 👊🏽
Yeah, that's the coolest moment, but also made possible by just how quickly Maul double strikes with power. I had to slow it down frame by frame and look at Obi-wan and Maul individually to appreciate exactly what opposing movements were being made in that badass fraction of a second lol
If all star wars fans just stopped supporting Disney, and only supported fan films, Disney's star wars monopoly would end, and star wars would get so much better, both very quickly, but people don't do that, cause they complain and complain, but don't do anything about it.
@@ncard00 And we are tribal, disagreeable beings, so participating in such a thing which used to exist, called a boycott in the before-times, now does not exist. People just pour the Dark Side into every social media outlet and think that was their "making a difference." Honestly the internet should not have been invented until we were smart enough to use it, but we would have needed to wait a few thousand years at least.
@@ncard00 do you understand how copyright works?
One thing i observed from duel of the fates was how at the beginning of the fight Maul was treating Obi Wan like he was insignificant. Constantly just kicking him away, shrugging him off, he was an afterthought. A padawan. While the main prize in Mauls eyes was the older more renowned jedi master Qui Gon. Who would have made a much more prestigious kill. Then after Qui Gons death when Obi Wan comes at Maul with all the rage & ferocity, cuts Mauls blade in half. You can see him start to sweat it. & it was at that moment he knew he fucked up.
The end of that is definitely true.
@@kylercole2834not just the end. He's got a good point. Maul really does disregard obi wan the entire time. Or keeps trying to separate the two to eliminate the master first - in his mind the bigger challenge. Maul was pretty calculating. The move he used on qui Gon to kill him worked because he managed to push qui Gon's blade to qui Gons left side, making him unable or less able to deflect the next two blows to his chin and getting impaled. Obi wan knew this when he killed maul. He deliberately did not let maul pull his blade to the left, and was able to effectively counter him. So it's not a stretch to think that maul would go after the master first... These fights are like chess matches.
After Obi-Wan got separated from him, Qui-Gon was skilled enough to keep pushing Maul backwards and on the defensive, to where Maul was actually worried he wouldn't survive. Only when Qui-Gon was worn down was Maul able to gain the upper hand.
Never noticed that before.
It was actually the very end... when the Sith had the high ground that allowed Obi-Wan to win.
Maul had a very clear advantage and Obi-Wan had absolutely no chance... so it made Maul forget that there was one more saber...
Sith fail with the high ground... when they have it, they must gloat... when they don't, they refuse to acknowledge it's advantage...
I'd like to add a 4th reason: The Lack of Swordsmanship & Choreography
- You look at the Original Trilogy, while they're not as flashy as the Prequels, the duels were simple & had basic swordsmanship & techniques that were serviceable.
- You look at the Prequel, say what you will at how choreographed & flashy they are, but if you look at a lot of them, there are a lot of advanced sword techniques & fighting styles that would be plausible (though not the best option) in a sword fight on top of the basics.
- You look at the Sequels, there are so many things wrong just on basic swordsmanship alone. Overly large telegraphed swings (some of which not even aiming at the opponent), unnecessary spins, the lack of a guard stance. Even the special effects has error (Biggest offender being the disappearing knife in the Throne Room scene).
Exactly. While Shadiversity has pointed out the many flaws with lightsaber duels, at the very least you can tell that these are based off of real techniques and the characters aren't being complete idiots.
I've never picked up a weapon in my life, and I'm pretty sure I could beat Rey in a lightsaber duel.
This sums up some of my thoughts, same with Everlasting Dragon's comment. My only critique of the maul-vs-obi-wan fight is that there are some practical flaws that could be fixed. That's kind of the only reason I prefer the OT fights, or at least Vader VS Luke in ESB, over anything else
They actually should break free from the old type of fighting, I mean it's a sword and force fight, just look at avatar, if they keep dancing around doing moves just to throw rocks, water, fire and air people would be bored, but as avatar improves per generation their fighting style also change. Just imagine seeing cool scene in star wars as dark and light user go crazy and shit with force power. They need to break free from old custom fighting boring stuff. I know their are many things force power can do. Choking someone with it is imaginative. I wanna see more of this imaginative stuff
@@everlastingdragon4520 no you can't. she will beat you to pulp with the mary sue power dude
Exactly my thoughts. The one most obvious flaw of the ST is the lack of form and technique in the duels. Which was present in the first 6 movies.
I’m glad you brought up how Ewan and Hayden just seemed to love their sword fighting. When you watch the behind the scenes, you can tell they really enjoyed the process and wanted to make it as cool as they could but make it dramatic too. This goes for the Darth Maul fight, you can tell they were enjoying it and planned it out. Like, Ray Park and Ewan Mcgregor are insane in that duel in the Phantom Menace. While the new actors may be fans, but they don’t love it like ones before them. Ewan Mcgregor’s family has been part of Star Wars since his uncle, I think, was in original trilogy as a pilot. It’s a difference in passion, and I think the people making Star Wars have lost the passion for duels and other things, but I think their making a comeback and will bring more entertaining shows and movies going forward.
My biggest problem with these fights is that the old fights look like a sword fight, the new fights is just straight up slamming into your opponent
yeah right? Why does ray just constantly spam the one armed heavy attack? 🤣
agreed, so many full on, full send attacks gets repetitive and boring, as opposed to calculated blocks, parrys and spins from these fights
@@Sebbe_Myhre She copies her grandfather
@@vinniqc yeah at least she tries to... She's just so stiff in every single fight scene.
This is something I actually appreciate about them. They aren't duelists. They don't really know wtf they're doing, and I think it's shown fairly well, tbh. They're not as good or exciting as other fights, but they tell the correct story.
In the original trilogy, Lightsabers were only used rarely and were quite conservative in their usage. I always liked how cautiously they were used; remember, these things are a constant beam of energy that can cut *anything* with minimal effort, so you really need to be paying attention when you use them. Nothing could be more embarrassing than running around with a lightsaber deployed only to trip slightly and cut your own leg off.
I didn’t like how in the disney show, grand inquisitor and the third sister got stabbed, and they are still alive. They had the lightsaber clean thrust through them
They don't have to be consciously careful though, they're a Jedi or a Sith. They fight with the force flowing through them, guiding their actions. Basically a pseudo omniscience that should prevent any possibility of self harm with the lightsaber and allows them to go balls to the wall in terms of movements and attacks. It's why it canonically makes sense that such a dangerous weapon is only used by a Jedi or a Sith. They're the only ones who DON'T have to be super careful with them.
The original and prequels nailed the deadly nature of the lightsaber, sequels didn’t get the message. In the pre/originals one swipe could cut somebody in half, in the sequels they happily showed people getting stabbed and sliced with very minimal damage. It was like they were stuck in child lock or something. Maybe all the good kaiber crystals had been used up by the Death Stars.
@@Chzydawg in video games they call it a nerf. That came from an old video games from maybe 2006. A patch changed the swords to be laughable like nerf bats
@@toastedtarts4044 Look at Darth Maul
I want to talk about something in the Phantom menace duel.
As you said, there are quiet moments in good duels, when Obi fights Maul alone there is no music but there is a dark chant, something very evil, you feel that the Sith are back and, even if Obi beats Maul, the evil will stay. It's a very nice detail.
I never paid attention to that. What a great detail.
From what I've read, that's because Lucas wrote his stories while listening to classical music. When he hired John Williams to score the films, he gave Williams the music he had been listening to while writing specific scenes, giving Williams a template of what Lucas wanted. Lucas also wanted the films to work without dialogue. So the music in the OT and PT is _INCREDIBLY_ important. When the music stops, it actually means something. This is completely missing in the sequels, and it's one of the (many) reasons those films are so sub-par.
@@frocat5163 Disney also completely lacks the same idiosyncratic dialogue style, instead opting for bland Hollywood. The costumes are imitative. The choices for sets and settings are the same two or three: the definition of vapid. New aliens and technologies are just derivative and uninspired.
You talk about emotional connection. For me the greatest emotional moment in a lightsaber battle was in Return of the Jedi when Vader said if Luke would not serve the empire than maybe Leia would. This propelled Luke to defeat Vader. Not to mention the music playing building up to this moment. It was great.
It's an amazing emotional scene. And at the end, Luke stopping himself from killing Vader through the empathy of remembering his own hand being cut, chef kiss.
Because it wasn't about the stupid laser sword fight. It was about Luke losing control of his emotions and realizing he could turn to the dark side, and his father realizing this and redeeming himself. That is what Star Wars is all about. Everything after 1999 that all the mouth breathing Star Wars fans love is about pew pew action omg, duel wielding ninja action!
this is a great video, well done.
Oh hey, fancy seeing you here!
Yo!! Thank you so much! 🙌🏽
Eyo ERB!
what are you doing here? 😂😂
Oh shit! It's ERB!!
The part with fatigue is also showed in prequel films too.
In duel of the heroes, Obi wan and Anakin are slower when on the droids speeding through the lava bank then earlier on the landing pad and interior and seem to use more overhead attacks to overwhelm the other’s defense instead of speed.
In duel of the fates, Qui Gon meditates to be more rested for when the ray shield drops because he is almost 60 and tired after dueling for several minutes, and Obi Wan didn’t meditate which prevented him from using force speed to help Qui Gon beat Maul
they are dueling slower because they are trying to balance as they have both planted their feet, best leverage they can get is with overhead strikes
@@topbloke1683 I feel like Anakins arrogance would make him duel faster because he thinks he has Obi Wan pinned and he can just end the fight then and there instead of the outcome we know
@@nightwing5740 Anakin has always been aggressive with his saber, preferring power strikes over rapid strikes. So it would be completely out of character for Anakin to increase his speed, believing he has his master pinned... despite the fact if he did increase his speed, he likely could've won.
@@deathsheir2035 I’m pretty sure his style of lightsaber combat was fast parries and counter attacks which we can see easily with Dooku and Obi Wan
@@nightwing5740 Compared to us normies, yes he's fast, so too are all the other jedi. Compared to other Jedi, he's a power type not a speed type.
I really think the lightsaber styles also lack of diversity. Maul VS Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon was so intense for the reasons you mentionned, yes, but also because their fighting techniques were so damn different from each other's. Maul's speed, Qui-Gon's fluidity and Obi-Wan's agressivity towards the end of the duel were all things that allowed us to recognize each character without even having to look at the color of their blade. Even with my godawful eyesight, I was able to determine who is who only judging by their movements.
Nowadays, it really is the only thing we can that would make me able to spot the difference between the duelists fighting, clothes and charadesigns aside. Kylo and Rey fight the same way as Finn did, only slow agressive moves with big swings to both block and attack. And what about the Kenobi show ? Same thing as I just mentionned, even though Obi-Wan has been canonically mentionned to be the best denfensive-oriented lightsaber user in the jedi order from that era.
My point is... If you prevent a character from having somewhat of an unique fighting style, what allows us to compare their lightsaber skills to their opposant ? How can we consider Kylo Ren to be a menace while he fights like litterally all the lightsaber weilders he's come accross in his life ?
Agreed. I wish they would bring in more of the specific lightsaber styles mentioned in books and other things. Like maybe Kylo could've used Djem So as an outlet for his aggression. Perhaps Rey could use Shii-Cho because she really hasn't been taught much. I completely agree that I want to see differing fighting styles. Yoda vs Count Dooku was easy to tell the difference even if Yoda had been regular size because of his erratic jumps and movements, compared to Dooku's more stable and calculated attacks.
agreed. Rey and Kylo might as well have been fighting with baseball bats.
@@jamesdick2580 that was the feeling I always got in the sequels, like they were fighting with bats and not light sabers
Same as the scene when Count Dooku (Balanced style) is fighting against Obi-Wan Kenobi (Defensive style) and Anakin Skywalker (Offensive style)
I understand what you're saying, but the sequels do have those unique styles for each character. Finn had that janky, defensive, confused shakiness when he was fighting Kylo. Kylo has that rage-filled yet still taunting feel to his swings. Rey, while having the most exaggerated swings in the whole franchise, also had her own notable style. After rewatching the fight, I do see what you're talking about with Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon vs Maul, and the different emotions put forth by the fighting. Although, take a look at Anakin vs Obi-Wan. There's spots in the fight where you see Anakin as aggressive, and Obi-Wan as hesitant but then a long duel happens, and they look the exact same. I know they trained together, but they should still feel a whole lot more separate then they were
I’m subbing to you man. You really understand Star Wars. Almost made me cry. I hope Star Wars Devs and Writers see this. We gotta have change.
What I love most about the Obi-Wan vs Maul fight is that it is going so fast that every time they are close to each other, it feels super dangerous, like one wrong step could spell the end for either of them. Whenever they separate, it feels like a breath of air before diving back in.
I once heard that a lightsabre duel should be like a game of chess, but every move has to be a check
yeah i feel that too another reason why the sequels sucked cuz there were WAY to many gaps so the feeling you explained just wasn't there
@@rory8182 That applies to every swordfight.
@@badfart7754 Same with all of Star Wars, honestly. The prequel fights look like a dance of sorts, with either person meeting their opponents blade way before it hits them. Of course, it makes sense in canon but pretty much all the fights in the prequels look non-lethal. The sequel trilogy does almost the exact opposite, to the point where some times it doesn't even feel like the people fighting are force-users. The prequels felt too soft, the sequels felt too hard. I would cover the original trilogy as well, but it's been a long time since I've seen the movies and I don't want to criticise something I don't have a good handle on
True
Honestly, while duel of the fates is good, battle of the heroes (battle and song) holds a very special place in my heart. The emotions of the entire battle are unmatched. you are on edge the whole time.
Battle of Heroes feels like a culmination, like a peak of everything built up in the prequels, and it's glorious.
Which one is that?
@@yitterskitter5223 Anakin v. Obi-Wan
@@kevint7288 oh for some reason I thought that was called duel of the fates II
@@yitterskitter5223 Duel of the Fates actually plays halfway through the fight
Another thing with the prequel duels is everyone had their own style.
Dooku was so elegant, Yoda agile, Maul athletic, Obi Wan was just cool.
In the sequels I'm not seeing any of this, just people swinging wildly which could make sense for Rey but Kylo was trained by both Luke and Snoke, he should be much better.
I'm glad you picked up on some of the positives though, I love the lighting of the new savers and I thought the fight in the forest was cool especially with the trees coming down.
But wasn't he trained young also?
(I am not sure)
But if he was, I do enjoy it because it's more realistic like a 30-40-year-old trying to do the thing they did at 15, Can they do it Yes but horrible if they keep up training and actually dueling.
I recommend looking up the lightsaber forms to get a better understanding of everyone's fighting style.
I mean, Kylo fights through his anger. That’s why Luke didn’t want to train him anymore, so it’s likely that overtime, Kylo cared less for his form because his anger blinds him. That’s part of the reason his lashes out at almost every character.
I liked that he picked up on some positives as well. But I also agree with the forms and certain temperament that each duelist in the prequels had. We even see Luke in s2 of Mando and he’s clearly in top form, everything looks smooth, and that’s the guy who trains Kylo Ren. So why’d he end up going all bats?
@@elijahalbiston Could be just the lack of consistency in the writing but, also by the time Luke build the new Jedi Order the styles would have shifted to light, medium and heavy, at least from what we know from the Jedi Outcast games.
"Actually that looks pretty sick" Brah took the words out of my mouth hahaha
The biggest thing in my opinion is that modern lightsaber fights don't have any actual form used. In the prequels, each and every character has a style based on a real life combat form. For example, Maul uses modified Kung Fu, and Ray Park was brought in as an actual practitioner. Vader's style is modeled heavily after Kyokushin Karate. Obi Wan's style is based in Saber fencing. Dooku is a Foil fencer. Everyone has a very specific way that they fight.
In the sequels however, everyone uses the "hit him with a stick" form. They have no idea what they're doing with a sword. Daisy Ridley has prior experience with a staff, but they decided to give her a weapon she can't use well. And we're not going to talk about Kylo Ren.
It's "You Picked the Wrong House Fool!" style I guess
@@dr.bright6272i love Kylos damaged saber, and the cross blades would work if it was different from a light saber. I always wished Vader had a second crystal in his first prosthetic hand, use force lightening to power the crystal, his hand turns into a hilt, and then a new lightsaber appears that can't be taken. If Kylo got his saber hilt implanted into his forearm after he got his mask reforged, he could've had his fighting style be even more aggressive to show how much he's trying to be evil
@@joseguadalupemartineztorre9702 Honestly bro your ideas suck
Yea and vader can't produce force lightning
@@HeldIntegral He can, it's just a really bad idea for him to do it.
The duel between Luke and Vader in Empire deserves so much more credit than it gets. That fight is, in my opinion, literal perfection. It's closer to the sequels in terms of choreography, but the difference is that there is actual intelligence and intention throughout. Vader and Luke aren't just swinging their lightsabers like baseball bats without a single thought between the two of them (**cough cough,** Rey and Kylo).
For the first half of the duel you can actually tell Vader is testing Luke. He uses one hand, and everything he does is in response to Luke's attempts to subvert his guard.
The second half of the duel is a one sided beat down from Vader. He out muscles, out thinks, out skills, and overpowers Luke at every turn. He employs the Force in a casual, but devastating manner against Luke, absolutely rocking him with machinery. His thrusts and slashes cause Luke to practically buckle under their sheer force. When Luke manages to sneak a hit in, Vader cranks up the intensity and instantly disarms Luke (literally). At that moment it becomes totally apparent that Vader was going *easy.*
And then of course, we get the famous reveal about Vader being Luke's father, and Luke's entire perception of life just crumbles to dust.
Every moment of that duel is a masterpiece, and it exemplifies every point you make in this video. A movie from the 80's shows more of the fight in one take than most modern SW movies. I can't decide if that's impressive on Lucas's part, or sad on Disney's part.
I gotta say I agree with every one of your points. That dual is in my top 3 because of the amazing storytelling and the climax that is yet to be rivaled by any other Star Wars dual.
@@caprisanh2845 A true man of culture
I was going to respond and say this fight was the best, but I could have never put it in to words as well as you did. Well done.
@@razorpit Damn. That's honestly one of the nicest replies I've ever gotten. Thank you.
"that's impressive on Lucas's part, or sad on Disney's part"
Por que no los dos 😉🤣
Another problem is that the sequels make lightsabers seem like baby swords. Unless you get cut in half, you’ll always be ok in like a week or less, whereas in the prequels, you get touched by the lightsaber and your toast even if it’s only a cut
It never made sense with how that was handled in the prequels before either. A small cut wouldn’t have nearly as large of consequence as being stabbed since the wound would seal itself upon cutting.
@@internetguyperson yeah but ur skin would boil, leaving not only an ugly scar, but also, depending where you got cut, it could be fatal. If you were cut anywhere from the torso to the chest you'd die, most people don't survive loosing an organ to it being inflamed, not to mention the amount of pain you'd feel getting cut could literally kill you.
@@internetguypersonwhile the wound would ‘seal’ because of the insane heat, it would actually cause the blood and also water in the area to boil, which would actually lead to a more painful experience
@@internetguyperson Do you even understand what a lightsaber is? This is a stream of plasma that can instantly melt steel.
@@internetguyperson The point of small cuts isn't to leave lasting consequences anyways, its to inflict pain on your opponent in the hopes that they drop their guard so you can deal a blow that WILL have lasting consequences. That's a principle that's not just present in lightsaber fights, but in actual sword fights too.
My personal favorite is dooku vs anikin and obi wan in clone wars season 6. Dooku knew his opponents had opposite strengths and weaknesses. Thus he managed to escape unscathed by forcing anikin, form 5 user to stay defensive, while continually enticing obi wan, a form 3 user, to attack.
fr I agree but in the Sequels they literally use no forms and just mindless swinging of glow bats😂
What I like to think about in that glorious duel is that Maul has been training for it and together with Sidious studied the Jedi's fighting style. Obi Wan normally is very patient and defensive. That's why Maul gets overwhelmed and loses half his lightsaber when fury makes Obi Wan change his style to very aggressive. When he adapts he manages to push Obi Wan in the hole. Only to misjudge his tenacity once more. Combined with the music, definitely the most epic lightsaber action of the franchise.
It was interesting too. This video made me remember the true emotion of that scene. Qui Gon must have felt some grief himself, not knowing whether or not Obi Wan was TRULY ready. Darth Maul on the other hand, just saw him as a target. One down and one to go. Obi Wan just saw his mentor get killed, but he has no time to mourn, and he has to plan out his movement very quickly. It's very emotionally and mentally well done when you put the thought into it
I swear the Jedi and Sith are two sides of the same coin. The Sith are so cocky and arrogant in their power that they unintentionally leave themselves open for a killing blow. And the Jedi had become so arrogant and politically corrupt that it costed their entire order at the hands of a very strategic, manipulative, and powerful Sith Lord
@@kfactor20 honestly it is, and that's the beauty of it. You pretty much have to get out of your comfort zone or get really into it if you're going to win. Being on the fence can lead to danger
Idk why but the little bit right before Obi Wan and Maul fight where just seconds before Obi-Wan is hyping himself up, jumping up and down to get the blood flowing, was also a super nice touch compared to alot of future fights where everyone can jump into action without a moment to get themselves ready or stretch.
Totally agree. It’s the little details that make it so much better
I loved that bit. Dude is amped up, angry, and raring to go. I'm glad someone else noticed this.
Ewan improvised that bit. No one told him to do it, but he was thoroughly in character.
The great thing about that is that Obi is not behaving “like he should”.
Less than a minute earlier it was Qui Gon and Maul on separate sides, you could see the aggressive sith walking back and forth impatient like a tiger in a cage that hasn’t been fed in a thousand years, while Qui Gon didn’t waste a second to meditate while locked in. Like any master would’ve.
Duel of the fates, simply a masterpiece in all senses.
Obi wan vs maul the first lightsaber duel in 1000 years?! That honestly makes it more epic, also why he and his master seem so tense.
First duel. Tatooine doesn’t count for reasons. Maybe we call it a spat? Not a duel, a spat.
No. It's just the first duel between a Jedi and a Sith since Darth Bane and Darth Zannah dueled Farfalla on Tython 1000 years earlier.
Most people would choose an anime girl for their wife, and that's fine, but my wife is Darth Zannah👸🏼
Yeah first with Jedi vs straight sith. Obi Wan defeating Maul got him promoted to Knight and allowed him to skip the Jedi trials. Killing the Sith that killed a fairly powerful Master was a very big deal.
Yet dooku yeets Obi-Wan but Anakin offs him and gets nothing lol
You had me dead at Darth Vader talking Japanese and the speed jump of Obi Wan right after. Thank you for that 😂😂😂
it was kinda awesome ngl
Yeah, actually it totally works ! Haha
Which part
@@code066funkinbird3 the best part 😂
technically speaking it would almost make sense for a jedi to be able to do that with their abilities. iamgine a combination of levitation, used on self, force pushh, from the feet, and then you got an attack ilke that.
For me you can't get much better than Obi-Wan vs Anakin. Duel of Fates is great, but the speed, emotion, and power of Anakin vs Obi-Wan will always stick with me.
IMO - Obi vs Ana was very good, but it lost points for those dark close up shots where we could not see what the characters were actually doing. Then the unnecessary twirling the sabers behind their backs when they were literally face-to-face was also weird. Like the video says, wide and brighter shots rule.
Too long, too much flashy stuff, too much CGI. I don't rate it. I'll give it points for theoretically having two characters whose motivations we mostly understand and might even care about, but other than that it's sub-par.
You know mustafar was a model right not cgi
Actually the sequels have more CGI than the prequels
@@jmurray1110 Ok. Too much green screen and bad CGI then. Search your feelings, you know it to be true. Also, the sequels being bad doesn't make the prequels good.
@@mikedangerdoesyou're right. The quality of the sequels has no effect on the quality prequels. The prequels rock, the sequels suck and the best lightsaber fight was ROTJ. You're just a wet blanket lol
Yoda vs Duku had me screaming as a kid. Just the fact that Yoda could actually do anything useful was like witnessing a true miracle (my favorite dual)
It made me drop my jaw in awe, but it also made me laugh. Cause Yoda struggles to walk around all movies.... and suddenly he's so nimble and agile.... and then goes back to limping with a cane 😂😂😂😂
@@5Demona5 it's because he's using the force to help him move during a duel
@@5Demona5 And his little stature makes it even more amazing. This little green dude absolutely goes to town on a Sith lord and all we've seen before of him is an old man. Yoda is such a good character
This is exactly why it’s a terrible duel. Yoda is above physical combat, the fact that you didn’t consider Yoda useful until he busted out a lightsaber and started spazzing out doing flips is proof that it sucks. All style and no substance.
yoda vs dooku is garbage duel i dont even know why poeple like it it literally makes me feel nothingof exitement
I’m studying lightsaber duels to eventually upload a short Star Wars film- and I really want the lightsaber battles to be really good. GREAT video 🙏
Corridor Crew has a great video on how to do a practical in-camera lightsaber effect, it's pretty neat.
Whatever you do do not use the Baseball bat style.
That edit on Obi-Wan's anime leap...
chef's kiss
Agree
imagine the fact it's possible (in the way jedi can canonicly do it, imagine a star wars Anime (manga).
Well in star wars visions they actually had the anime fast sword cut
@@robos3809 Yea, but this isn't a full story.
Vision was kinda cool, but i was talking of a show with full season(s) on the same storyline.
In the original movies, the duels between vader, luke, and obi wan were based on fencing and kendo basically. In the prequels, they got more extravagant with force jumps, flips, etc, but still with realistic choreographing in terms of strikes. In the new ones, the fight choreography often looks sloppy and sometimes nonsensical (best example of this being rey and kylo fighting the praetorian guards).
Also, sometimes it seems like they are behaving like they are using clubs (which technically they are, but the depiction is supposed to be sword fighting).
The prequal fights actually had two people sword fight, so there was no cheapening of the battle; it was what it was, while the sequel fights are more CGI, and the actors barely have to train to do the battles, vs the hours of actual sword training put into the prequals. The whole thing just shows the decent into laziness of the films, 1,2,3,4,5,6 having top quality put into them, and 7,8,9 being for nothing other than money.
@@Unknown-hm7qx if they put money into actual choreography, it would probably look better.
@@jayburn00 its almost like the fights are supposed to suck
even in the prequels the choreography sometimes just has total nonsense.
Old duels feel and have a taste that's unique to themselves. Also, characters had their own "essence" that was unique to each and every one of them. The crazy shit of whatever Grievous was doing, the elegance of Count Dooku's style, the mad speed of Yoda, Anakin's aggressive and a bit of recklessness, Emperor's lethality on each strike, Obi Wan's methodical approach, etc. But now, the sequels make everyone look the same, everyone looks like they are trying to bash and swing at a piñata.
Or Mace Windu turning foes' aggression against them in a lightsaber form that you need to be a paragon to master without turning bad.
that's what made the lego starwars games so good to is that you could play as all of those characters and feel the difference
You're basing your claim on a subjective perception.
But let's go with it. I can feel a difference in the style between Kylo and Rey.
Kylo feels wreckless, impatient, angry. You can see it in how he holds his body low to the ground, his feet spread apart, how he twirls his saber, his strong swings.
Rey feels reserved, almost like she's scared of herself a bit, justifiably so.
and also Vader's one hand stiff movements indicating his suit is made to limit him
Because they're being directed by people with 0 knowledge of swords and executed by people without the skill to fake their way through.
yoda vs dooku will always be my favorite. especially because the first time i watched it, all i knew of yoda was his calm demeanor, and his incredible control over the force. but never really got to see him in a serious fight against a formidable opponent. especially when he whips out his lightsaber and does some crazy double backflips and shit oh my god
"Until this dude shows up and tries to run over a kid" I nearly spat out my soda. You're right, that really was Darth Maul's first act of villainy in the franchise. I bet in his head he was like "this one's ten points" as he swerved toward Anakin, too.
Omg I’m never gonna watch that scene again without thinking “this one’s ten points.” 😂 Freakin hilarious
I really love the first Lightsaber duel between Luke and Vader. It’s slow and methodical and plays out much more like an old Kurosawa samurai duel. That said, I also really love Vader VS Obiwan on Mustafar. The tone, the cinematography, the effects, the story, the acting, the music, the way the environment becomes a third character as the fight progresses and becomes more perilous. Mastapeece.
Same, it really made it seem that Vader was trapping Luke with the environment and how there was no where for him to escape. It was like it was just effortless for Vader to back Luke into a corner and was completely dominate.
Also you could imagine Luke feeling cramped in the scene and that everything around him was a threat once Vader was using objects to hurl at Luke.
Vader vs Luke was trash.
@@yhwach1 you have trash taste
@@eliasadam2345 I like the final duel between Luke and Vader more, the lighting, the music and the tension of that fight is just superb.
That fight is 45 minutes of nothingness. It's 45 minutes of pointlessly waving shiny sticks around instead of actually fighting and has absolutely zero punctuation or rythm. There is no back amd forth, there is no one taking advantage or losing it throughout, there is no actual development of the conflict, it's ridicolously morbid and bloatedly self grandiose. It's flashyness in place of tension, exploding lava in place of grit and pathos and it's 45 minutes long to make you forget the fact that the entire reason why the fight is happening in the first place is beyond asinine and flaccid. Let alone the fact that it ends on the most ridicolous nonsense conclusion imaginable, which kind of works as a good metaphor for the prequels, darth vader lost what should have been the duel of the saga because george lucas decided triple random triple back flips could replace actually interesting conflict. And as such, darth vader lost because doing a triple backflip was more important than winning.
I think one of the most underrated duels is the fight between Dooku and the Nightsisters who come to assassinate him in season 3 episode 12 of The Clone Wars. The way they animated Dooku is perfect Makashi style. He fights along a forward/backward fixed line of attack and defense and never deviates to the sides, just like real fencing. It's a little detail that was really cool and showed a tremendous attention to detail on behalf of the animators.
Just like real sport/smallsword fencing. I do Scottish broadsword and Spanish rapier and they are nothing but moving in circles around your opponent.
DOOKU WAS SO RAW IN CLONE WARS WITH THIS CAREFREE ONE HAND FIGHTING STYLE!
yes! the clone wars seasons are so awesome. There were other great fights in the clone wars seasons too.
Dooku's fighting style really is one of the most standout styles in the star wars canon. I don't know if it's the sheer weight of presence Christopher Lee left on the character or what - but Tyranis might be the most classy, elegant and fearsome duelists in the whole story.
The Clone Wars on average did a pretty decent job of showcasing the differences between lightsaber forms. They still didn't quite get just how fast the Jedi are supposed to be though, but fortunately a lot of the novelizations gives great depictions of actual Jedi physical prowess (as well as a bunch of other force powers).
Wow. Just fifteen years ago, the prequel lightsaber fights were "over choreographed", "too flashy", "weightless", "silly", or "have nothing to do with the internalization of the characters". Now that the sequels are behind us, they're suddenly "peak".
Ironic.
When the prequels came out they were panned by the OG fans as ruining starwars. No one could have known the horrors that would come
@@waffleswafflson3076 Ironic... the sequels could save the prequels from a poor reputation, but they could not save themselves
They were always good. Some people just were propagandized to hate some imaginary thing. Media has that power.
Sometimes you need to be reminded of what utter garbage looks like to be thankful for the good things you already have
Yeah, but that’s all just BS. The original fight between ben kenobi and darth vader in A New Hope looks like two old men barely able to stand up with their sword in their hands… which makes sense since they’re both old. Meanwhile the fight between count dooku and anakin in Attack of the Clones looks like an arrogant whiny brat acting really flashy in the fight, with lots of spinning. Which makes sense since that’s in character as well.
The main difference between the originals and the prequels is the technology available to make all the effects and the production value put into the choreography. (Money) Everything else from the dialogue to the character building is close to being the same.
The Maul fight has one of my favorite examples of visual story telling within a duel. The scene with the laser gates up offers perfect characterization for all of these characters. Maul is pacing like a wolf stalking at his prey from the shadows. Qui-Gon is meditating and recollecting his thoughts. He takes the consular’s approach to the break in combat. Probably my favorite bit of characterization for him. Obi-Wan jumping up and down, ready to dart toward Maul is also a great way of showing characterization for him. He’s still a Padawan and he isn’t as collected as Qui-Gon. He just wants to get into the battle and is anxious being split up from his master.
Probably my favorite moment in the movie tbh.
That fight was awful. Darth mail left so many openings but the Jedi were too focused on dancing instead of slaying
@@jonshaqqir4575 That’s a problem with most (if not all) prequel duels. They can feel more like a dance than a duel.
@@andersonjosiah Honestly this. I wouldn't say that the sequel fights are masterpieces of anything but at the very least it looks like they're actually trying to hurt the other person.
@@merluzacongelada5361 frfr
@@jonshaqqir4575 Well then you are lost
My most favorite Lightsaber duels of All time is Mustafar Duel. Both the camera, the music, the atmosphere, the choreograph and the Characters is what makes it so memorable.
Agreed
@Random Guy But it's the ultimate climax of the entire saga, what 5 movies before it were building up to. the most emotional fight and creation of vader.. it had to be overblown
@@user-qo8se6dd4r It's not overdone. Jedi have the force you know. They can anticipate each others strikes. That's why it's so fast. And if you felt nothing seeing Obi-Wan and Anakin fight to the death than that's on you.
8:28
*Fun Fact:* In Revenge Of The Sith, Anakin jumped over Obi-Wan to try and strike him the way Obi-Wan struck down Maul. As a padawan,, Anakin was obsessed with Obi's fight with Maul, he even altered a training droid to look like Maul. But unfortunate for Anakin that was probably the biggest mistake of his life, resulting in the lost of his 3 remaining limbs.
Good observation.
I see it now
He tried to beat Obi with his own move, the ultimate diss, but Obi Wan is the ultimate with his ultimate move
Obi-Wan: please Anakin I invented that move
Bad choice thinking Obi Wan would fall for his own trick.
7:50 I don't know, Obi Wan Vs Maul in Star Wars Rebels, and Ahsoka vs Maul in Clone Wars were pretty awesome...hmm I'm starting to see a pattern here
@3:05
Fun fact. In Star Wars canon there is a force power called 'Force Speed' which essentially allowed them to move at superhuman speeds.
It was only ever shown once, in the Phantom Menace. Weirdly enough they never show it again.
Another time was in the OT ep V when Luke was about to be carbon frozen. That jump was speeed. I wish they would’ve shown palp use it when windu went to arrest him instead of making it look like real time. Made those Jedi look weak and incompetent
Another time was in AOTC when anakin saved obi wan againts count dooku
So why this power isn't used more? 😅
@bryce2fadeway perhaps it causes too much strain on the body so it is more of a last effort deal?
@@phisgig idk man. I just realized at this point that the use of the force depends mainly on the plot and the writer leading the story more than making actual sense ...
The entrance of darth maul was the most epic thing I've seen in movies. Them shooing away the non force user who might as well be non combatants then slowly and clamly derobing while facing off totally unbothered with each other. music blaring. it was just so perfect and cemented a very important monastic theme to jedis and sith that these guys are warriors larger than life larger than whatever else was going on.
Today every loser can fight force users. Every side character gets a lightsaber and is immediatly capable of fighting Jedi and Sith. In this scene in the Phantom Menace, we got a clue what a Power a single Sith can be. But Disney just didnt give a shit and throws Lightsabers around like candy... the magic is totally lost... today they are as uncivilised as blasters I guess...
Apart from the entrance of Darth Vader in Empire.
@@hansirgendwer6030 Yeah I think the moment that broke our disbelief was the moment Finn and Rey (two untrained in lightsabers) picked up and started using lightsabers in TFA without being harmed by their lack of training. Rey Sue even beat Kylo in her first duel which was also the moment that cemented Kylo as a non threat for the rest of the series.
That duel almost single-handedly redeemed the whole goddamned movie. Gorgeous, balletic choreography that was beautifully staged and shot.
@@hansirgendwer6030that and every single character getting stabbed in the stomach and just walking it off, back in action the next day. Makes the power of the lightsaber and the gravity of the fight less important. In Phantom, Qui-Gon makes one wrong move and it cost him his life, now they just fight anyone, get stabbed, and then live after.
Couldn’t agree more. The Maul fight from ep1 is easily the best in my opinion, but my personal favorite is the battle on Mustafar, between Anakin and Obi-Wan. I think it also nails a lot of what you mentioned. Choreography, music, and EMOTION. Holy crap, the emotion.
the mustafar fight was epic, but unfortunately, the constant cutting between that and the yoda duel makes it worse than duel of fates imo. Even with it edited the way I would prefer though, nothing is ever going to top duel of fates. That set, that music (it sounds better on that set because it was composed for that set) the 2 v 1 to 1v1 against a double bladed opponent...and something about the intensity of those ray shields...it does absolutely wonders for the pacing.
I'm shamelessly smitten with the phantom menace lol
Watching your video I suddenly noticed that during Obi-Wan's duel with Maul, when Obi-Wan is hanging in that shaft and is preparing to jump up to slice Maul, the theme of the Force is subtly playing in the background. Somehow I never noticed that before, and the way this theme complements this significant moment is simply beautiful.
My favorite duel is Obi-Wan vs Maul on rebels. It was beautiful
This is a top tier opinion 👌🏽
Always love to hear Rebels W's
i love rebels
Speaking of Rebels, there’s also the fight between Ashoka and Vader on Malachor 5, one of the few duels where we get to see Anakin under the mask. It, too, was exceptional.
It is literally the best duel in the franchise. That is how fast sword fights were. One person moves, the other sees the opening, parries, then stabs. They were really like gunslingers from the old west, dueling at noon, only with a sword instead.
I totally agree with the cuts issue. Yes, I get that it's much easier to film a bunch of perfect 1-second shots and splice them together, than to film an extended scene of continuous perfection. But the latter method makes the fight SO much more satisfying because you can see the continuity and follow the progression of the fight yourself. Don't be lazy and take the magic out of the fight by showing us a new angle every second, forcing us to recalibrate our brains and fill in the continuity ourselves every time; we'll miss most of the fight that way!
This is why everyone thinks Mission impossible, John Wick, and that scene between Steve and Georges St. Pierre are the epitome of fighting choreography. No disrespect to them of course, but there are DOZENS of incredible, uncut super fight scenes in Asian action movies. We need better choreographers and more actors/directors like Michael B. Jordan. That one shot fight in Creed 1 was intense.
Jackie Chan moment
hey, don't be so harsh! its not like star wars is one of the biggest franchises on the world and Disney a literal money making machine
One of the things that separates good and mediocre directing.
Yeah the cuts is often just laziness and I really think it hurts the viewing experience when you often can't tell what's happening.
I also think setting matters. The quick cuts can work in a chaotic battle because it can make them feel more chaotic, but when it's a fight between two expet duelists it's not supposed to be chaotic it's supposed to be elegant and so the quick cuts don't really make sense in a setting like Star Wars
The poetry in the Obi-Wan vs Anakin fight is unreal, in many instances you can see how Obi-wan is aware of his surroundings and using them to his advantage (not just the high ground at the end, but swinging of the falling-pole thing first, etc), Anakin is driven on killing his old master- always the aggressor, swinging at Obi-Wan's feet as he climbs the pole, even taking a final swing at Obi-Wan as he backflips onto the high ground. The sequels just don't have that level of story, amazing video
Ok I have this theory (and bear with me) about the high ground. Obviously the basic thought process is that after the duel with Maul, Obi Wan went over that scenario from every point of view (including Maul's) to figure out what happened. However, my thought is that maybe he wanted Anakin to leap so that he could have the LOW ground. He had the low ground when he beat Maul and Grevious. So maybe that's the position he knew he could beat Anakin. I know it's a stretch, but it's still a fun theory.
I've never thought about that before, but realistically that's the type of thin Obi-Wan would do, your right that's a really cool theory
It doesnt matter when the fight is just an overly choreographed dance that goes on for 20+ minutes. It doesn't feel like an actual fight.
@@sineadgaming69 It's two of the greatest duelists of the time clashing blades, of course it's gonna be super souped up. Also, if it just looked like a regular sword fight, no one would watch it
@@gooseyisbad Thanks!
Anakin and Obi-Wan were absolutely showing fatigue in their duel.
Luke v Vader in Episode 5 is criminally underrated imo. Obviously everyone remembers it for the famous line but the actual fight itself is so beautifully shot and paced. When they’re both just staring each other down at the start of the fight with lightsabers drawn is one of my favourite shots in cinematic history
You speak the truth. It also has everything this video talks about, in spades. Production, editing, music, emotional connection.
The cherry on top is the story of that fight. Vader is toying, testing his son, probing for strengths weakness. He is impressed with his training. Then switches to force attack.
When Luke finally lands a blow he like ‘stuff this’ shows the boy the real Vader.
Completely agree, one of the better lightsaber duels imo
wait, that's underrated? by whom?
@@elasmojones I just never see it mentioned when people talk about the best lightsaber duels. I feel like it’s overshadowed by the “I am your father” line but the fight itself is so well done
About fatigue, I think it's worth mentioning that earlier duels had this too, like Luke getting winded from his duel with Vader in ESB or in RotS when the fight choreography became slower and sloppier as the duel between Anakin and Obi-Wan went on.
I think it was more subtle and interesting than in the sequel trilogy where the overall choreography is sluggish and lumbering. Both fresh and tired combatants flail their sabers wildly at each other, limiting (at least visually) the impact fatigue has on the flow of the duel.
just wanna say that, the uploader said he wont judge u if ur favorite lightsaber duel is from the sequels, _but i will._
i *will* judge u for liking that fanfiction-tier trash, actually no, that's insulting to fanfictions. It's insulting to compare fanfictions to the fake Disney "sequels" especially when there are high quality ones like that Darth Maul fanfic.
@@John-X What is bro on about💀💀
@@christophertarliman8408 BEGONE NORMIE, REEEEEEEEE 😡😡😡😡😡
The animated saber battles are more thoughtfully choreographed than the live action ones now. Tales of the Jedi was amazing.
You can get away with a lot more things in animation which might have something to do with that. For example, the author of this video showed a scene that was motion captured between two trained swordsman to get a better feel on how trained fighter would battle. It’s hard to get the same effect in live action unless both actors actors have training with weapons. They have to make some creative liberties to make up for that part. The training the actors do on set can only do so much.
@@internetguyperson i just wanna say that in both cases choreography definitely still plays a major part
You can do so much more with animation. The Clone Wars show had some really good fights. Obi-Wan and Anakin vs Dooku is still my favorite. As much as I love Sir Christopher Lee, it would have been insanely difficult to get him to move like that irl.
@@internetguyperson nonetheless the choreography in the anakin vs obi-wan fight is absolutely beautiful. Maybe it was the man who stages the fights, maybe director but these fights look nothing but gorgeous without pro martial artists.
@@internetguyperson well you say this, but some of the stuff in various star wars anime is motion capture
No one in Lucasfilms now in days knows how swords work
I personally loved the Dooku vs Yoda duel. It was the first time Yoda showed his saber skills. I remember being on the edge of my seat the entire time.
So flippy
When Yoda's shadow appeared people cheered so loud!
seeing dooku seemed unstoppable and then the cheers when it turned out yoda was an absolute wizard with a lightsaber and dooku had his hands full
Yeah, I remember the audience at the cinema cheering
yeah, for all 5 seconds.
One thing to also note: Christopher Lee had engaged in actual swordfights. He gave Peter Jackson information about what it's actually like when someone's killed with a sword, but refused to elaborate how he knew. He was also part of a legendary British spy unit in WW2 alongside Ian Fleming (creator of James Bond). I think we can all figure out how he knew what it sounds like to kill someone with a sword.
To think we missed the opportunity of having Christopher Lee as James Bond.
Wasn't that in the Lotr production? I doubt he ever had to use a real sword on someone, but there e explaines how it would sound if someone were stabbed by a dagger...
Was he the inspiration for James Bond?
@@Casedilla73 No, that's Ian Fleming, who was his colleague.
@@arminmariusschmutz6779 He probably heard first hand information of Ww1 even before his service. Where fights could be as close to hand to hand in trenches.
The Prequel lightsaber fights generally had a better selection of actors and choreographers as you mentioned earlier. Christopher Lee as Count Dooku is also another example, given his professional career in fencing and also swordfights in many other films.
not to mention the uniqueness of Dooku's lightsaber construction
Not to mention that Christopher Lee barely even did those fights. The majority of them were a stunt double.
@@johnmarc1986 doubtful since Christopher Lee was a master of sword dueling. however it's also possible a stunt double was used since im sure his health wasnt all that great at the time.
@@jamesdick2580 There's a clip of him talking about it, he was very open about not being able to do most of the fight scenes because his legs were no longer what they used to be. He spoke very highly of his stunt double too.
@@ozzyp97 Christopher Lee definitely had too much class for this world
The part of the lightsaber duel between Obi-Wan vs Darth Maul was near perfect, and Obi-Wan calming himself to come up with a way to avenge his master was spectacular.
Great video. It’s also worth noting that lightsaber blades are technically weightless. This means a lightsaber would not function like a sword because you can move it MUCH faster than a sword. Lightsaber can cut from any angle as well. Couple that with force abilities and they should canonically be speeding the duels up slightly on top of the fast paced choreography.
I feel like us Star Wars fans understand that instinctively and that’s why when the sequel duels ensued, we were all like yo wtf we taking a step backwards now?
however in the OT, Lucas wanted them to be extremely heavy when turned on. So the actors played it that way.
when I saw the duel between Kylo and Rey for the first time, I convinced myself that the lightsabers were 'heavy' because the users were inexperienced, turns out it was just stupid film making.
its clearly the lightsaber props, they made them too heavy with the technology put into them, which is ironic because people can buy light-up lightsabers that are so much lighter, its a bit of a let down now, at least Kylo Ren's fighting style was cool.
Lightsaber blades clearly have always had some weight, otherwise they would be completely unblockable because you could just waggle it at your enemy like a flashlight. Real life swords are not nearly as heavy as hollywood makes them seem, look up fencing championships, it's insane how fast those people move..
IIRC, the blades, while technically weightless, we’re said to have a gyroscopic effect once in motion. So once you start a swing, it suddenly wants to just keep going. Which is not great if you’re surprised by a 360 super plasma cutter in your hand going wild. Jedi training was required to be able to guide the blade where you wanted and not cut your own leg off.
maybe if the lightsaber use's plasma and not a laser it would actually have weight
The reason I like the Prequel fights is they were shot like a Kung Fu film. Martial Arts fans will know what I mean. Wide shots, no quick cuts, no shaky cam, you see the actors' faces doing the moves, the fight tells a story, close-up reaction shots so you know how the characters are feeling.
George Lucas was massively influenced by Akira Kurosawa's cinematic style, long shots, wide angles, and holding a frame for a time to to carry it's emotional weight.
That’s exactly why they’re bad
@@evantindle1564 no
@@tartatovsky yes, actually
@@evantindle1564 Oh, one of the very few sequel fans. You guys went practically extinct.
IT'S THE CUTS!!!! You're so right! I want to see the entire fight!
"The first lightsaber duel against a sith in a thousand years"
The Acolyte would like to have a word
That "you were the chosen one" line from Revenge of the Sith hits me everytime. It's one of the most emotional moments in the entire saga.
When Obi-Wan says ”I Will do What I must” it’s already the greatest fight before it even started because of the emotional weight
@@mac5917 I agree. And then when he says It again in the Obi-Wan series It just seems forced and just frankly Cringe! But in Revenge of the Sith It was a Masterful line and I’ll never forget my ‘Holy Shit’ feeling sitting in the Theatre in May 2005 when I was 14.
It’s the best movie to me
The Mustafar duel was one of the best in the whole series honestly. I could really feel the emotion between both Anakin and Obi Wan. Man it was good
It's amazing how much *time and effort* was put into the choreography of that fight. It was pretty much the centerpiece of the entire film. We knew it was coming, but seeing a lightsaber collide with another that wasn't red was jarring. A true masterpiece.
The only thing i disliked about it was that both light sabers were blue.
Made it a bit hard to see which belonged to whom at certain points
Soooo good the best duel ever IMO
@@ngotemna8875 Maybe when it first came out, but on the 2011 complete saga blue-ray that I watch it on, it's fantastic.
Ya the final battle between Obi wan and Anakin on Mustafa will always be my favorite
It’s all about EMOTIONAL STAKES 👏
Luke hacking away at his father isn’t incredible choreography, but man is it engaging storytelling
This is exactly. The prequel ones are not very good. They look impressive, obviously complex choreography but they are pretty lifeless. anakin vs obi had the emotion drained out of it with its bloat and absurd details
@@nothingisawesome Ya mean the part where a teacher and student, who practically became brothers now have to kill each other? One seeking domination of the Galaxy, the other having to stop him?
@@nothingisawesome Lay off the sauce.
@@hammerh3ad019 yeah, the one where they twirl their lightsabers in front of each other without even trying to lay a hit. The prequel fights are dumb once you get past the spectacle
@@DONWASABIJUAN the thing about Anakin is, that he's a massive show-off, if you've ever seen Clone Wars you know what im talking about. Obi-Wan knows that as well so he tries to keep up with Anakin's bs.
The real reason is that the prequels had choreographed fights and people complained. So now Disney doesn't do choreographed fights. Disney is all about avoiding anything that reminds people of the prequel
Before the sequel trilogy, duels always gave me the same feeling.
That the duelists are doing something incredibly important that has galaxy wide implications. Just two people, alone, anticipating the next step. A methodical chess match with fatal consequences. It made me think I was watching something important because of how few and far between they were.
So what you're saying is that the prequel duels were terrible? Because they had none of that.
@@kaboose111 I think he talking about how they had true tension, which I agree; the intensity was real because their fights had important/plot-effecting outcomes, whereas in the new fights the tension was fake created by music and effects and in terms of effect there was minimal impact
@@kaboose111 Prequels has everything man. It’s on you if you’re too stupid or blinded to realise that.
@@lachlanstrom3685 tension was almost nonexistent when one of the individuals of almost every duel is fated to survive into the original trilogy.
@@notchromeshine So the final Anakin x Obi Wan fight had no tension? cuz they're both alive in the OT?
I'm surprised you didn't mention the sound effects in the Maul fight. I test new sound systems with that fight. Those lightsabers clashing sound like thunderbolts. It really gives an impression just how powerful those weapons are.
You are so right. It’s funny because every time I get new speakers or headphones, I also watch that fight. 😂
Maul's lightsaber sounds so _dangerous,_ like an electronic buzz saw.
@Darth Gonk Studios that's not canon to the films. They sound like that because the sound designer made them like that because it sounds more threatening.
Yep whenever I want to test or show off headphones/speakers, I watch that fight and the podracing.
Omg yess they didnt reuse those sound effects in Ep.2 and 3, which is sad
I remember before the sequels came out, I thought "no matter how bad the films end up being, at the very least we'll get some great lightsaber duels" (due to production value and modern special effects)
And then even that ended up not being true. Those films were disappointments in every way lol
The constant shakycam is what ruined all the sequels' duels for me
Step 1: Don't hire any good choreographers to plan your fight scenes.
Step 2: Don't use stunt doubles, in spite of having plenty of money to hire them.
Step 3: Hire George Williams to score the fights, then don't use half his music.
Step 4: Use copious shaky cam to cover up the disaster of a fight scene.
Step 5: Ruin a franchise worth billions by mismanaging it.
Step 6: ???
Step 7: Lose money!
@@alexlowe2054 except they lost zero money and made literal billions. Thats what yall sequel haters like to forget. Oh, and they consistently had better reviews too. You're just the next generation of ppl who were whining about the prequels, the movies yall prasining now.
The sequels will always be looked at as a disappointment. A lot of fans (myself included) reject these as canon sequels they're so bad. The Dragonball franchise had this problem too with Dragonball GT. Where for years it was considered a canon sequel to the most popular Dragonball Z series but fans then rejected GT as canon. Eventually they disavowed it completely and made a more respected sequel with Dragonball Super. I bring that up bc I hope Star Wars does the same eventually.
@@PharaohoftheHouseofLife They are legit down billions and losing money every quarter, they are in decline. They lose money on these films/shows
ok 3:09 almost had me crying XD you're right it looked pretty awesome and a pretty good edit at that
When it comes to my fav duels
1. Anakin vs Obi-Wan in RotS
2. Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon vs Maul
3. Ahsoka vs Maul
Tho I do have to also give an honourable mention to both of the Dooku live action duels, especially since Christopher Lee, being a veteran himself, would constantly be helping with the choreography of every fighting scene in the movies he was a part of, wanting to make them more realistic and believable, and imo it's really visible in these duels
I would also add Yoda vs Darth Sidious.
Yep, Christopher Lee was an Olympic fencer. Had he been younger he might have done the fights himself.
Ahsoka vs Maul? A cartoon? are you kidding me? The fact that this is even a debate is such a letdown to me. If you’re gonna rank saber duels, don’t include a some stupid spinoff bs. This just proves that Star Wars has been ruined, and the newer generation is just gonna sit and watch it burn. I know everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but so am I, don’t @ me.
@@willmcdaniel7979 well, despite them being cartoons, they still are imo some of the greater fights in the series. If the list was longer then I'd also put the Maul vs Obi-Wan fight from Rebels due to the style in which it was made, as well as the emotional weight it has
@@willmcdaniel7979
I didn't watch Clone Wars, but doesn't like, _the entire fanbase_ agree it's the best Star Wars installment?
One point I was thinking we'd see raised is from the shift in the danger light sabers pose. Getting hit by a light saber used to mean death or maiming, but recent films show them as easily stopped or barely causing a scratch. It's hard to care about a fight when there's little danger involved.
a character in the obiwan show survived a lightsaber being plunged directly into their chest, TWICE. being stabbed by basically anything like that would kill you but especially somethiung that melts triple layered steel doors.
@@collenjets123 It killed Qui-Gon pretty easily... Grand Inquisitor and Reva both survive though
The logic fallacies are strong with the writers.
@@brandonarzillo8561 Yada, yada, darkside powers. It's the same logical loophole of any soft magic system - because there isn't a clearly defined limit to what the Force can and can't do, we just need to accept that because they survived otherwise mortal wounds, they must have used the Force to do it. Why didn't Qui-Gon do it also? *Shrugs.*
Qui-gon: stabbed in stomach -> dies
Finn: hit in *the spine* -> not only lives, but can walk just fine after
I always like the detail that when obi-wan defeats maul he uses Qui-Gon's saber, a metaphor for him transitioning from a padawan literally rising to be a new master
The only thing modern lightsaber fights have over the older ones is there’s much more weight, it seems more dangerous to get hit. It’s cause the old ones have such good choreography, and they want to show it all so they do wide shots for a lot of the fights. But you also know no one’s getting hurt or killed in a wide shot so your not really feeling any suspense.
Also the fact that the sequel duels started using what I call “Playground moves” like using the Force to block lightsabers or turning the lightsaber off to switch hands plus the insta kill by turning the lightsaber on directly at your opponent, it’s always something we did as kids (before it led to arguments to how the Force works). Something we’d see in the Ryan vs Dorkman too, but seeing this meta usage of the lightsabers in duels on-screen breaks the immersion so much 😭
At least in the old EU examples of those things were few and far between and only the most powerful force users could use the Force like that.
@@kingjonstarkgeryan8573 exactly! I remember seeing that cool shot in the KOTOR cinematic as a kid, stopping the Lightsaber blade; by hand, but it was done in way that didn’t break immersion
It’s also plain silly they turn off their lightsabers during fights because traditionally both sith AND Jedi look down upon it, the Jedi think it’s dishonorable and sith think it’s pure cowardice and weakness
@@HydroniteTB I get so heated about the lightsaber switching off thing, especially the explanation that it's "frowned upon". There are several real life bladework techniques that involve slipping out of a bind to land a fast tricky cut and there's no reason that the Sith (the faction of renowned deceivers so dishonorable that they always murder their masters and manipulate from the shadows) would refuse to use a simple and probably not even all that effective trick meant to accomplish the same thing. It's just after-the-fact lore excuses as to why no one in canon is seen doing it.
@jamesarnold7253 yes he does, but it doesn’t look random and clumsy, there’s something to it that sets it apart from what I meant
Gonna be honest, my favorite duel was Malgus vs Satele in the second Old Republic trailer: Hope. It is easy to see their differences in fighting styles, lightsaber forms, and the way that each character thinks. Even if you don't know those characters, you know what ideals they stand for, and imo it makes it easier to connect to them even though you may have never heard of them.
Honestly one of my top 5 has gotta be Malgus and his master vs Satele and her master in the "Return" trailer. Especially after Satele leaves, her master holds off both Sith with amazing skill until Malgus goes full on brute force.
@@alphawolf7417 I thought about that one too. It is incredible as well.
@@alphawolf7417Return is one of the most awesome trailers of all time. The lightsaber fight was epic, but even the "martials" were awesome. The scene with Niko Okarr (the smuggler) whipping his guns out gives me chills to think about.
I love it when the duelists can direct and redirect their saber strikes and defenses like it’s one full swing combo that just turns so smooth and yet you feel whenever the lightsabers clash but instead of being disoriented by it, you redirect it into a counter attack which can turn into some really smooth choreographing
My favorite lightsaber duel was the Cloud City one between Luke and Vader. It has narrative purpose, builds up to the most iconic moment in Star Wars history, and the fighting, although more slowly paced, is great. The emotional weight behind it is fantastic; you see that Luke wants to avenge Obi-Wan, his father, and his friends, before his world is turned upside down by the end.
My favorite is Luke vs Vader in Return of the Jedi. The emotion is incredible, and the story being told holds it up even though there is very little fighting. Luke refusing to fight, believing the light will be his strength...Vader provoking him into attacking full of rage...the theme that plays as they strafe across the throne room....Luke disarms Vader and sees that victory through anger will never be true victory. Throwing away his weapon and trusting in the love of his father to defeat the Emperor. It's freaking amazing.
That jedi fury theme is my personal favourite star wars piece
Never in any movie did I go from hating/fearing a character to feeling completely sorry for more than Vader in that moment. If you look close, that moment Luke yells "NO!" and ignites his saber you can see Vader's eyes and the fear behind them.
And the music!
A lot of my appreciation of that fight is the footwork, Luke is pushed back, then flips things and Vader is backpedaling. Constantly, both are either maintaining balance, or trying to do so. None of the flashy unbalancing maneuver's that dominated a lot of the prequels fights, nothing that would take their eyes off each other for an instant that isn't forced by their opponent. It instinctively holds up as a confrontation, rather than some co-operative performance.
@@Sorain1 Awesome description, I had never looked at it that way
I loved the maul and obiwan fight, but honestly the Anakin obiwan fight in episode 3 will always stand out as my favorite. The environment changes so much, the very environment exploding with anger and hurt just like the characters. The strikes they make and the environment show the way they feel inside perfectly and it is all topped off with one of the best tracks in the franchise
I also loved the part where they started dancing and stopped trying to kill themselves for several seconds
I love that Maul fight when Qui-Gon can't get a saber swing in and instead decides to punch Maul in the face off the platform. It's the best example of the sword being the extension of the arm I've seen. When he can just go from sword to literal arm and back. Just so fun
The Darth maul and Savage VS Palpatine in the perfect duel your describing
3:08 was funny as shit
We need all of the good lightsaber fights in anime form
@@dexterz99 all in Japanese
Not sure if it was mentioned in earlier comments but Obi-Wan also bisects Darth Maul with Qui-Gonn's lightsaber. You were talking about emotion and poetry in that battle but I felt that Obi-Wan avenging Qui-Gonn with Qui-Gonn's blade was probably the cherry on top for that scene.
If I remember correctly in Legends Kenobi actually used Qui-Gons lightsaber for a bit before building another one of his own
In 8:53 Maul uses the infamous force kick 😂😂😂
After obi wan calms himself down he grabs quigons green lightsaber showing that he really is a master now.
Vader Vs. Luke in ROTJ will always be my favorite fight. It lacks the polish of the prequel fights, but the combination of weariness and triumph Mark Hamill displays after cutting off Vader's hand and throwing away his lightsaber will always be one of the best moments in Star Wars. I'm also partial to the old style of fighting, like all the sabers have massive amounts of weight behind them.
Physical and emotional weight
Seeing such a physically slight man impose himself on a monstrous opponent through sheer rage is the best depiction of the dark side on film. Luke broke Vader’s will in thirty seconds, and it still sends chills up my spine.
That had so much weight to it. For a moment I really thought, that Luke would actually turn to the dark side.
Then the sequels really did make him turn to the dark side.
The swelling of the music after Luke emerges from the shadows and the camera pans in a single shot following the action just 😩🤌
@@MrKidroboto He did turn to the dark side... but he's a Jedi... so he turned back.