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I'm an old fella, been a mechanic for 40 years and have equipment that's 50 years old+, and I'm always amazed at the brain washing the manufactures have done to the general public. They are in business to sell equipment. The faster you wear it out, the faster you'll need a new one. When it comes to the operation of equipment, faster is NEVER better. I understand that if you make your living running equipment, time is money and you do what you have to do. But if you're not in a hurry, running at or near WOT is a mistake. Use some old school common since. More speed is friction, friction is heat, heat is wear. Besides that, you're wasting a ton of fuel. The laws of physics haven't changed. PTO speed for example, unless its a generator or something that absolutely has to be at a certain rpm, most equipment operates just fine well under the RATED PTO speed. My JD 5065E tractor has a three cyl diesel that's rated for peak torque at 1700 rpm with a 540 pto speed at 2400 rpm (WOT). I never run it higher than 1700 rpm. Why? Because at 1700 rpm the engine is providing all the twisting force it can. Anything above that is simply more speed, not power. When I brush hog, I run at 1600-1700. Does great, uses WAY less fuel and less wear and tear. I hear people say running the hydraulics faster keeps it cooler. Really!?! How about the auto transmission in your vehicle? It's just a big hydraulic pump. Do you start and drive it at full speed and WOT all the time? I wouldn't recommend it. I could go on, but in the end, this is just an old man's opinion.
Wow… That was a LOT… Of WRONG information. These engines are designed and limited to the speed they run. I’ve been a diesel mechanic for the better part of 20 years myself. If you were at all correct… Truck engines, which often make peak torque at around 1,100-1,200 RPM. Would run at that speed all the time. Instead they often run at or near max RPM. Reason being is the once you’ve gotten things going. Horsepower takes over to keep things going. Torque is only the ability to GET something moving. Horsepower is the ability to KEEP it moving. Also. As mentioned in the video… Hydraulic systems are designed specifically for a given RPM. On my old JD 50. It’s about 1,200RPM. On a newer machine with higher speed engines. It’s usually around 2,500-2,800 RPM. Without that RPM you’re actually going to cavitate the pump and CAUSE DAMAGE.
@@brandoncrimmins6296 I knew I would generate some strong responses and I respect your point of view. I would however, suggest that you refresh your understanding of cavitation. A hydro pump creates flow, not pressure. The pressure comes from resistance to that flow. When the return flow cannot keep up with the outflow of the pump, it cavitates. In a properly operating hydraulic system (check valves, dump valves, etc) operating the pump slower will never cause it to cavitate. On the other hand, running it to the point of bumping up against its flow limits and the pressure relief valve or valves, lots of bad things can happen, including overheating and cavitation.
@@leecarter9525 Yes, that is one of many ways cavitation can happen. Tip speed of a poorly designed pump, poor sealing properties of pumps as well as vane pumps liking higher speed to seal correctly. Also fluid being too hot will boil and aerate. And in that case your method of limiting RPM would absolutely be beneficial if you’re having a fluid heating problem. But so would a properly sized cooler. Pumps not creating pressure is a well debunked myth. Without the pump, you have no flow. Correct. However, by installing a pressure sensor inside just a bare pump with no load circuit plumbed in. We can now see dramatic spikes inside the pump itself does spike pressures. Especially positive displacement pumps… And the fact that the whole entire system is under pressure. Not just the restriction itself proves that the pump is what is creating pressure. Or at the very least, contributing to it. I don’t mean any disrespect to you sir. I’ve learned a WHOLE LOT in my career from fellas like yourself and I’m very grateful for that. All I’m getting at is there’s also a lot that the younger guys have to offer and can teach you too. Information and understanding of things changes over time.
@@brandoncrimmins6296 Thank you Brandon for the respectful comment. I appreciate it. I see (and work with) so many young fella's that just want to get it done any ol' way as fast as possible. They don't seem to care about understanding how it works or why it works that way. A service man that learns the details is a good service man. And..., you're right, never too late to teach an old dog new tricks ;) Take care.
I have owned a 3032 E for 5 years. I have asked this very question over and over, and I have always been told operate W.O.T. You are absolutely right about the joystick controls and as soon as I get a chance I am going to test operations at a lower RPM to see if the controls are less touchy. Great video.
I'm glad that you were able to get a video out of my email. If other people asked this question, I will ignore them in my head and take complete credit :)
I'm with you on this. I am not trying to impress anyone and most times I'm just not in a hurry unless weather is changing for the worse. I have said this many times and this is a topic that will never end. Manufactures like to, and need to sell parts. So, worn out parts sell parts,. and parts wear out quicker the harder or faster they are ran,. now lubrication and cooling also fits in there, so does common sense. And I have said and found this true for me (just personally)I have not blown up an engine yet from running it too slow. If your hydro's are growling or chattering or stalling or you can recognize the same type sound in the engine from "Lugging" or under-throttling, by all means give it more juice/throttle. (sorry for all the "or's) At the end of the day this is the operator in the seat that make this final choice of throttle location. Another point, manufactures are not helping me pay for parts and I am not writing off parts in taxes. So with those few points I run a little slower most times. Last comment,. I don't like the hearing W.O.T. for hours at the time, so turning it down makes my seat time more enjoyable. This is my practice in all equipment even down to chainsaws. And again I let a saw idle before shutting it down and sometimes choke it to turn it off, blast of raw fuel to cool it internally. Turbo's running at high rpm's and shutting down abruptly can cook the oil in the bearings, that's a long complicated discussion if you are not familiar with the topic. (ok I'm done)
I’m a new subscriber now. Been watching you awhile and just placed an order thru your website , so I decided it was time to jump in. I’ve owned my Kubota L 4701 for 5 yrs and down to the last yr of notes ( amen ) but I wrestled with this idle question until I became more familiar with the Tractor. At first I ran my Tractor at too low an idle and it would want to regenerate about every 20 hrs. So I bumped up the idle searching for that sweet spot all while learning and observing the nuances of the machine, like the power steering and hydraulics working effectively . I still consider myself a newby because I never been around Tractors growing up and never owned one till this purchase 5 yrs ago. However I have worked hard to learn the machine and it’s safe operation, to the maintenance which can not be over emphasized and I do ALL my own maintenance. While I had no background w/ Tractors I know my way around mechanics. But in truth I know so little and have so much to learn, thanks.
I was a little surprised that you didn't touch on the topic of engaging the PTO at PTO RPM. I expect the Deere is the same, but Kubota recommends engaging the PTO at a lower RPM, then bringing it up to PTO RPM to avoid damaging the implement. On the L4701, I typically start the tractor with the throttle set for 1500 RPM, let it warm up (probably not long enough, I get impatient), use 2000 to 2200 for just moving around or light bucket work (brush, tools, whatever), then PTO RPM or just below for everything else. Finally, 1500 RPM or so for a short cool down.
We’ll I gotta give you guys something to write about! 🤣 No, I just forgot all about it. You’re spot on though. Engage the PTO at low RPM’s for most machines. If I recall, Deere garden tractors should be mid or higher RPM’s when engaged. Reference your manual 👌
@@rodbagley1686 the hydraulic pump works better at mid rpms and better unlike a manual transmission it's doesn't matter as much the engine is designed to run mid rpms and up
Years back I was driving a JD 4020 across the field after helping pull a stuck tractor out. I had a passenger who happened to be a JD mechanic. I always ran the engine at the predetermined stop position. As we were driving back he reached up an pulled the knob and moved it to WOT. He said diesels were meant to run higher and it would not hurt it, and possibly help it.
I modify diesel cars for efficiency as a hobby and even teach on the subject. First, it depends on the engine, you must consult the BSFC chart. Second, depends on the speed of work needed out of that engine, (think gearing). Most diesels have highest efficiency at 70% load from 1500-1700rpm. After 2000 rpm, efficiency typically drops off substantially, and even more so after 2500 rpm.
I start off at about a 1000 RPM, let the engine warm then run it near wide open 2100-2200 RPM to run the belly mower. At the end of a mow, I turn the mid PTO off, move to 1200 RPM while I’m moving to its storage place. I always clean the air filter and radiator screen after each mow or use the tractor except in winter!
Hey Courtney...Agree on all the points...I like to warm up and cool down. I also learned after a couple of months of owenership from forums to engage and disengage PTO at the lower RPMS then spool up or down to PTO RPM. Rest of the time when not usign attachements with PTO I adjust RPMs according to need. It's not often I run WOT but will if I need to. Great stuff! Thanks for sharing!
Great topic and even better comments and points of view….my overall take on this is….common sense…should prevail….with some proper research and understanding of one’s equipment below them, c,mon….use some common sense….as one commenter said…do you put your pants on while running out the door ? do you go to bed as soon as you get off your tractor ? If the task is lifting heavy loads with the loader, if your not making the tractor do the work at a safe common sense high rpm, then why have use the power of a tractor at all…isn’t that why you bought it ? If one is afraid of wearing it out and have the responsibility of doing / paying for the maintenance, then maybe, one shouldn’t own equipment, rent it and return it ! Again, I believe general common sense should prevail….especially when engaging and disengaging PTO attachments, ie. brush hogs or anything with heavy rotating components, mostly on tractors ( not zero turns or riding mowers…they ain’t tractors) engage them at a low
Sorry, sent too soon…engage tractor PTOs at low rpm, slowly bring rpm up to rated or slightly above rated PTO rpm….go to work…and adjust PTO rpm accordingly while working, upon shutting down, leave PTO on, slowly reduce the rotational implement speed with the engine as to not shock unloading the implement gear train, bring to idle, turn off PTO….cool off tractor especially those with turbos. When I owned a 2018 JD 1025r for general residential use, I noticed after running it at mid throttle doing loader work for awhile, when I was finished and semi-speeding back to the shop, running it wot, it would cough and sputter as if it had loaded up, after a few minutes at wot, the roughness cleared and it was smooth again, I also noticed this on my 2021 JD 2038r. So WOT for short periods of time will clean out and “exercise” the engine especially if one is accustomed to running engines slow. So again as a commenter pointed out, run the machine for the task you want it to accomplish. I’m not advocating beating the crap out of it or babying the crap out of it….use it and maintain it wisely and I believe it will prove to be one of the best investments a tractor lover will ever make. Be safe out there !
My teenage boys like to use my tractor, they always wanted to hop on the tractor and go full bore and then shut it off immediately when done. I explained to them that they wouldn't want to wake up and instantly jump out of bed to run a mile. And they also wouldn't want to run a mile and immediately go to bed. Tractor wants to warm up and cool down a few mins. Since then they seem to understand.
i pretty much run wide open, or close to it. my primary usage is moving snow. i spend under 6 minutes (based on the hour meter) per driveway, then running off to the next one. i want to throw the snow as far as possible, i'll move the chute and deflector if i need to control where it goes. i don't get paid for going from driveway A to driveway B, so i'm interested in spending as little time as possible in transit. snow here is typically light and fluffy, so i'm running at close to full speed in mid range (sometimes high range - depends on how slippery it is, if i can stop and steer). in the summer i'm building rock walls, and popping stumps, and smoothing out the holes. smoothing out the holes is the only place i'm not running full out. i do run about 1/4 to 1/2 for warm up and cool down as i'm checking out the tractor, and greasing the fittings. it's all about getting the most done in the least amount of time, and keeping the tractor working for me.
When I warm up my tractor when it's very cold out I let it run for about 30 seconds at low idle then I bump it up to 1,000 RPM and I engage the PTO then I let it run for about 5 to 10 minutes after that the tractor is warm enough to use. Engaging the PTO gets the hydraulic pump moving and all the hydraulic fluid flowing and warming up as well instead of just warming up your engine letting your tractor sit with your hydraulic pump pump pumping it warms up all the fluids
WOT when doing any work. The only reason I lower RPMs is because I want to lower noise, start up PTO, or warm up the tractor. It doesn’t feel right operating at lower RPMs. Per manual, it says to run at ‘rated RPM’ (WOT) so HST has proper flow and cooling. Only reason stated in manual about lower RPM is for when starting up PTO. Not sure why anyone wants to run a lower RPM when doing work…no sense in it…maybe they think they’re being easier on the tractor or saving fuel. Also find I use L HST mostly as at WOT, speed is equate when going over bumpy ground. M is faster, but uncomfortable when it’s bumpy and can’t use all the speed. H is only good for road travel. In comparison you can lower RPM, use M, and foot to the floor, but it feels and performs better to use WOT, L, and foot to the floor.
Good points, and as an older diesel mechanic, I've seen that babying a diesel can do more harm than good! WOT when not under load is not a good idea either (when working a machine with a diesel engine, the phrase "Run it like you stole it!" comes to mind! BUT! Even though diesel engines are more robust (relying on compression as the ignition source!) than gasoline engines, keep your oil changes on regular intervals, and keeping clean fuel! If you don't, parts wear quicker, and RPMs become a moot point!
When I had a half ton diesel truck that was how those with higher mileage trucks and minimal emission equipment failures said to handle them. Get it hot and work it. No babying it or to many short trips.
I'm usually at PTO rpm for almost everything i do with my 1025r. I find that the ground speed is too slow for most applications with it lower. Maybe if Deere could get it together and offer a 3 range hydrostatic then I could save some fuel. 😁
Many implements operate the best at the recommended 540 pto rpm. On my tractor which is a yanmar sc2400 I have found that my mid mount mower mows much nicer even though the engine rpm is at 3250 which feels a bit high.
One nice feature on my new 2023 1025R is a PTO “throttle” control…separate from the engine. It fine tunes the speed your hydraulics move…..no need to throttle the engine!
I never noticed the PTO setting on the tach. Thanks. I have a Deere 1023E. I mow at 2200 RPM and blow snow at 2900 RPM or so. Perhaps I should wind up a tad more. I always "cool down". I ran diesel fishing boats up to 550 HP in fairly high speed vessels. I ALWAYS cooled down after a long, or even shortish run. I knew guys who shut down hot with 430 Cummins and dropped valve seats. Big trouble!
The only time I run at W.O.T. is with a PTO attachment or filling up the loader bucket in a pile of dirt. Other times it's half or less. I'm in no hurry anymore and for me running at W.O.T. is wasting fuel unless I need the power. Again that's just how I do it. Interesting in reading all the other comments. Thanks for bringing up this question.
I'm with you on this. I am not trying to impress anyone and most times I'm just not in a hurry unless weather is changing for the worse. I have said this many times and this is a topic that will never end. Manufactures like to, and need to sell parts. So, worn out parts sell parts,. and parts wear out quicker the harder or faster they are ran,. now lubrication and cooling also fits in there, so does common sense. And I have said and found this true for me (just personally)I have not blown up an engine yet from running it too slow. If your hydro's are growling or chattering or stalling or you can recognize the same type sound in the engine from "Lugging" or under-throttling, by all means give it more juice/throttle. (sorry for all the "or's) At the end of the day this is the operator in the seat that make this final choice of throttle location. Another point, manufactures are not helping me pay for parts and I am not writing off parts in taxes. So with those few points I run a little slower most times. Last comment,. I don't like the hearing W.O.T. for hours at the time, so turning it down makes my seat time more enjoyable. This is my practice in all equipment even down to chainsaws. And again I let a saw idle before shutting it down and sometimes choke it to turn it off, blast of raw fuel to cool it internally. Turbo's running at high rpm's and shutting down abruptly can cook the oil in the bearings, that's a long complicated discussion if you are not familiar with the topic. (ok I'm done)
I grew up on a farm ….. family owned grain elevator and trucking company ……. Summer college job was a county highway department with heavy equipment. I was taught if you are working the engine hard ………. You never lug a diesel. Adjust rpm to rated maximum and operate within a couple hundred rpm of that.
@@GoodWorksTractors I am 69 …… so I am proudly old. I realize that many new diesel are designed for fuel economy at lower rpm. I had a 8v 92ta 435 hp international cab over that would run up the egt really fast if you didn’t keep it up in the rpms. In its day it was a real horse and would run all day at 2100 rpm.
Glad i watched this for I'm new to tractor ownership. Have had ny 2025r not quite a year and always felt it was running hard at the high end. I've mainly mowed with it with some light front loader work and a small amount of brush hogging. This year i suspect I'll be running those last 2 implements more so definately good to know for i like taking care of my things. Thanks.
Two problems with running at lower speeds, not enough pump flow for cooling and operating closer to the natural torsional frequency of the drivetrain. From the nose of the crank to the axle flange, those torsional vibrations at low rpm’s can rack up a lot of damage quickly.
On my diesel zero turn I run it W.O.T. to get the correct blade speed as per owners manual. I am a trained marine diesel mechanic. We were taught to run diesels at 80% of W.O.T. unless full power was needed for a short period of time. 80% rpms was higher torque than 100% rpms (keep the engine in its torque range) the extra RPM's were for horsepower. On my 4760 I start engine at idle, warm up and cool down is at 1200 RPMs. I operate (non pto) at 2000 rpms. My tractor has auto throttle but I don't use it. My joystick has a throttle button that does not change ground speed but does increase hydraulic flow which I set at 2200 rpms. My fuel use meter shows I am using about 2/3rds gallon per hour and my tractor stays in the medium range and I shift high to low when doing loader work.
If you start hearing strange humming from your tractor transmission when running hydraulics/pto (not the typical hydraulic noise) your trans is getting hot from TOO LOW RPM or you are low on fluid.
If you are working the tractor hard like digging with a loader or pulling a heavy load use full throttle! You don’t want to lug the engine down and stall it, because it can damage the engine. Bending a connecting rod is possible.
I like the auto throttle feature in my 4r very handy when doing loader work. I've always been told to idle a engine down for a few minutes before shutting it off and always start it at idle. Always run the powered implement at the required speed nothing more nothing else both can be as bad as the other. We I do loader work I normally run with only the foot throttle (4r excluded) helps reduce clutch wear, and pushing on the loader to hard and spinning the wheels.
well most engins run best at 2000 to 2500 rpm. yes usen a pot may require more rpm. but for long haul should keep in that range runs plenty hot for dpf and still get good response out of hydraulics. evory trator is a little diffrent tho.
I checked the printed torque, horse power and fuel consumption graph from the mfg. Best fuel economy is concurrent with max torque which occurs at 1,800 RPM.
Well, as many of my diesel mechanic brethren have said, yes run them faster. There is actually a name for the RPM range you are intended to run them under a load, it's Torque Rise, it's the range between where peak Torque and peak Horsepower occurs as every engine is different, you need to find out where each of those occur on your model and only load the engine while in that range. Next. I was Shocked to see that the same diesel brethren totally dropped the ball on telling you that your diesel engine does not have a throttle. A throttle is those round butterfly thingy's in the air intake that aid in causing a stoitiometric fuel mixture. Diesels by their very nature run lean, air is not regulated in any way in a diesel, if you want a diesel to go faster, you put the fuel in larger amounts. Hence you can go to a full fuel condition, or accelerate it until it reaches maximum governor RPM but there is no such thing as wide open throttle on a diesel.
If your turbocharged engine is hot and ran on high rpm, dont't shut off! Let it run two minutes to let the turbo come down from his rpm's - if you shut down the engine there is no fresh oil to cool the turbo and the oil in the turbo burns to coal - the end of your turbo
Do you cold start your tractor by raising the throttle up? Seems like if it's 20 below that would be a bad idea but that's what the manual says to do. I never have.
The new engines with computers if the wrong numbers are put in they can burn the engine up or will have poor power and will never do a proper regen.been there an seen it happen.Always let the engine cool down after working it 3---5minutes.spit a turbo runs $1000-4000.drop a valve.call your dealer an take a pill.was good things in this video.Thank You Sir
Diesel engines are much better for constant RPM and varying load, while gas engines do better at constant load and varying speed. That's part of the reason diesels are used for industrial generators, big trucks, and large marine engines; while gassers are used for sports cars. Set that diesel at a given RPM and it'll torque it's way through any load variation way, way better than a gas engine. (Think F-250 with the Godzilla gas engine, pulling a gooseneck......watch that transmission hunt for gears when the front tires hit an incline, vs a Powestroke pulling the same trailer....) The gas engine will rev up and down much more quickly, but it isn't nearly as capable at holding RPM when loads change. Bottom line with a diesel....pick a comfortable RPM band and let that diesel do it's magic no matter what the load on the front or rear is doing.
I have to remind myself that we are talking about subcompact tractors here. Almost all the larger tractors have the 540 mark well below wide open. I personally never run a tractor above the 540 PTO mark (except in the circumstance where I was pulling a 15ft Rhino batwing brushhog with a Kubota M105X. Even though it was 105 horse, it didn't quite have the oomph to run it without being wide open). Sometimes I don't even run the tractors at the 540 line. I've run old tractors a lot in my life, and you get used to being able to hear when you're letting the engine load up to much. As long as it isn't loading up and your tool is doing what you want it to do, you don't need to run any faster. Again that is on old equipment though that one: is pretty much all torque, and two: you don't want to wear that engine out any quicker than you have to.
I don't know if you addressed this...But 12 minutes was beyond my attention span. I have a JD 4400 & 4600 (2000-year models bought new) I just read the owner's manual about idle speed. The manual said "slow idle was 950 rpm. As a child on a farm (1964+) I was told not to idle a tractor below 1500 rpm. The idea was that below "official idle speed", the engine wouldn't get proper lubrication. The engine doesn't sound right to me at a lower rpm. I've loaned friends a tractor. And walked up on them idling it as low as it goes , even though I specified otherwise. NEVER LOAN EQUIPMENT !! 🤨
I doubt engines are made so the lubrication system ceases or operates at a deficient capacity at lower rpm. If such an engine was made it would not last.
@Karl Degraa you may be right. Maybe my dad made it up. All my cars and motorcycles had a set low idle specification. And on a forum where lots of people were using larger V twin gas equipment. People were recommending NOT running them long term at half throttle to reduce the psi on a pump. BUT...I have been taught that there is nothing that is a given FACT these days. Girls with penises do better in sports than girls without. 🤣 And now that I've thought even more about this. The dealer that sold me my 1st new tractor in 1980 told me this when I lowered the rpm while talking to him as I was loading it on my trailer.
I been running my grandpas b2710 kubota at around 1800-2000 rpm for years. Ive went to like 2200 before but pto speed which is like 2500 just feels like it's overkill. Joystick is really jerky at that high. Never had a need for that much juice.
I have the "linked pedal" on my Kioti 5310se hydrostat tractor so I never have it throttled up very high. My tractor runs great and I have not had any troubles with it at all.
I have a JD 3025E with a backhoe. The attaching and detaching instructions say to have the ranging at idle while operating the backhoe controls for attaching and detaching. Even at idle, I have scared myself when adjusting the boom!
Back in the days... Detroit diesels were run wide open, Cat diesels opposite. Basically don't labor your diesel engine no matter what work your doing. These compact tractors, let her rip, snort a little, or humm along. They seem to run just fine for a long time.
I thought hydraulic power was based on fluid pressure, and hydraulic speed by flow. Isn’t the pressure in the system relatively constant and flow variable based on RPM? I don’t notice any difference in loader lift with lower RPM, but it does respond more slowly. For PTO I run at rated RPM (2500). For loader work I go mid throttle or so (around 1700rpm). If I want faster loader response for a short burst, I just hit the foot throttle to speed things up a bit. Usually that isn’t necessary.
I use my L3901 gear drive as a light utility tractor around the property and also commercially in my tree service. For loader work and transport I normally have the hand throttle set half way and use the foot throttle to get my transport speed and loader speed where I want them at any given moment. I wonder how many owners of small tractors could ever wear out an engine if they ran it at speed when they were using it. Most small tractor owners just don’t put many hours on their machines in their lifetime. Think of the DPF dealer service interval is something like 5000hrs, most will never see anything close to that.
Very helpful. So my tractor says "rated speed is 2600 rpm" Does that mean at 2600 rpm I will have 540 rpm at the PTO? Not related to WOT? WOT is just whatever the rpm gauge reads when I move the throttle all the way up/open?
It depends. On some tractors, WOT is what's necessary to bring the PTO up to the correct speed. Just as an example, mowing certain grasses on a Chalmers 8030. I had it at WOT in 1st gear and the cattail grass in the field still made it bog.
Wide open throttle as much as possible. The engine runs cooler and has more power. Run at pto rpm when using it and use at least half throttle when doing anything else. Let it idle for a few minutes after running hard. I have a Kubota L3010 and after mowing I let it idle and can actually see the temp gauge come down. Another point is the term “high idle.” The engine is turning faster, but is still technically idling until a load is applied.
I've rarely run WOT on a 1025r and usually only with the mid mount mower. Less RPM means less dust and less damage when hitting something hard. The 1025r has minimal clearance and at full height, the mower deck hits pine roots if I'm not paying attention. I run it well above minimal RPM needed to cut grass but only WOT if it starts to bog down.
Great video Courtney!. good information and timely advise. You addressed questions i had about this topic. Thank you again. Have a great day and be safe guys!. Tim
Other than warm up, and cool down always run above the start of the torque peak at all times. On these small tractors it is usually magically 1800rpm... generator speed. If your running anything on the back run 100rpm above 540 speed, and load it down to 540 speed. The bigger story is the required min rpm of the hydrostatic pump, usually 80% of rated rpm, again 1800rpm. Its like Engineers built these tractors using math or something, lol.
Yeah, normally pretty high, but I will adjust depending on traction/ice/etc. Sometimes running a little lower will help prevent slippage...easier to control than foot pressure on the pedal.
Diesel engines like running loaded more than unloaded. To achieve a greater load on the engine it can be better to run in a higher gear at a lower engine rpm (when the situation allows). Higher engine loads mean more fuel and as a result less unused oxygen in the combustion chamber. Unused oxygen in the combustion chamber will combine with atmospheric nitrogen to produce NOx.
Gear drive tractors can move just fine at mid-low RPMs in high range, if not under load. Hydrostatic transmissions need flow, especially in high range, for both cooling and actually moving well, even when not under load.
I have a question not related to this video but wanted it to get attention in hopes to find an answer. Why does my 300 X loader appear to have three different sets of holes on the vertical loader support arms? Is it so that their variations and lift capacity and maximum height?
Any body ever start an engine an time how long it takes for oil to flow from the rocker arms when engine temp is at -0 or colder??older cumins manuals said 3-5minutes.i checked an yes gauge says got pressure any yes i'am old f_rt.when paycheck depends on do i take care of it and have to fix it so i can work today and tomorrow and keep my job??when you earn your keep and pay for your mistakes you better rethink am in that biga hurry.maybe the boss and customer won't mind waiting for a rebuild or a different truck..only a day or 2 weeks?i check the fluids and start at idle.let warm til engine oil filter is warm to touch or temp about 100 degrees then load slow throttle up maybe 1/2 til near operating temp then go for it.got a dry clutch near idle before letting the clutch out.NEVER under a full load.some older tractors would shear flywheel bolts or worse the crank.even powershifts i throttle back and 4 wheeldrives throttle back to 16-1700 on the ends.don't be the 1 nobody will let you use their equipment.run it like ya stole it??really??an deere on the 20series put out who's afraid of the stop.some folks didn't know and those who used the foot throttle wide open all the time got it cut off.common sense.do you put your clothes on while running out the door before breakfast?engage pto at idle an throttle down some on turns.maybe keep from throwing the shaft an ujoints at your head.learn from other peoples mistakes.it's cheaper remember your paycheck feeds the family.oh and fix it before it can't be used an ya ain't got the time.
I have a new JD 4044 tractor and have been trying to figure out this very issue of best rpm when brush hogging and also finding a gear and speed to cut comfortably and keep forward HST pedal engaged as much as possible. My tractor has something called "Speed Match" which lets you set your max travel speed and once set you put the forward travel pedal to the floor to achieve that speed. Does anyone know what effect this might have on the cycling of the HST oil since the forward pedal is fully depressed most of the time?
One thing I've always been confused about, well there's lots of things..lol, but I've always heard that higher rpm's doesn't translate into more hydraulic power. Is that not true?
Power is more than just pressure, it is also flow, in the same way as power isn't just torque, but also RPM. So, even if the upper pressure limit is set by the pressure relief valve, the flow is increased with increased RPM, and therefore power.
Modern tractors run at WOT. Period. There is only one issue here... hydraulics. What pressure are the hydraulics designed to operate at? WOT. Hydrostatic transmission? WOT. What speed was the engine designed to operate at to support the hydraulics? WOT. You want to spend a lot of time and money fixing your tractor... run it at 1/2 throttle. In a hurry for a repair bill? Run it at less than WOT in high gear. Just the groaning noise the hydraulics make at less than WOT should tell you that even if you are not mechanically inclined.
Running the engine faster than the maximum output of the hydraulic pump is totally useless.find out what that rpm is and stay there.Stop the clutch type mentality and learn how to run a machine that has an engine connected to a PUMP!
Book says wfo fer my sub com. Haven’t done that yet, too sketchy My guess if you’re running hydraulics besides the hst just moving and you’re quick with the controls such as backhoe than yuh I’d believe to run it wo as that’s how most pros do it to keep the pressure up. 🤷♀️ I just run it where the engine sounds good for whatever
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I'm an old fella, been a mechanic for 40 years and have equipment that's 50 years old+, and I'm always amazed at the brain washing the manufactures have done to the general public. They are in business to sell equipment. The faster you wear it out, the faster you'll need a new one. When it comes to the operation of equipment, faster is NEVER better. I understand that if you make your living running equipment, time is money and you do what you have to do. But if you're not in a hurry, running at or near WOT is a mistake. Use some old school common since. More speed is friction, friction is heat, heat is wear. Besides that, you're wasting a ton of fuel. The laws of physics haven't changed. PTO speed for example, unless its a generator or something that absolutely has to be at a certain rpm, most equipment operates just fine well under the RATED PTO speed. My JD 5065E tractor has a three cyl diesel that's rated for peak torque at 1700 rpm with a 540 pto speed at 2400 rpm (WOT). I never run it higher than 1700 rpm. Why? Because at 1700 rpm the engine is providing all the twisting force it can. Anything above that is simply more speed, not power. When I brush hog, I run at 1600-1700. Does great, uses WAY less fuel and less wear and tear. I hear people say running the hydraulics faster keeps it cooler. Really!?! How about the auto transmission in your vehicle? It's just a big hydraulic pump. Do you start and drive it at full speed and WOT all the time? I wouldn't recommend it. I could go on, but in the end, this is just an old man's opinion.
I agree Lee!! Tom
Wow… That was a LOT… Of WRONG information. These engines are designed and limited to the speed they run. I’ve been a diesel mechanic for the better part of 20 years myself. If you were at all correct… Truck engines, which often make peak torque at around 1,100-1,200 RPM. Would run at that speed all the time. Instead they often run at or near max RPM. Reason being is the once you’ve gotten things going. Horsepower takes over to keep things going.
Torque is only the ability to GET something moving.
Horsepower is the ability to KEEP it moving.
Also. As mentioned in the video… Hydraulic systems are designed specifically for a given RPM. On my old JD 50. It’s about 1,200RPM. On a newer machine with higher speed engines. It’s usually around 2,500-2,800 RPM. Without that RPM you’re actually going to cavitate the pump and CAUSE DAMAGE.
@@brandoncrimmins6296 I knew I would generate some strong responses and I respect your point of view. I would however, suggest that you refresh your understanding of cavitation. A hydro pump creates flow, not pressure. The pressure comes from resistance to that flow. When the return flow cannot keep up with the outflow of the pump, it cavitates. In a properly operating hydraulic system (check valves, dump valves, etc) operating the pump slower will never cause it to cavitate. On the other hand, running it to the point of bumping up against its flow limits and the pressure relief valve or valves, lots of bad things can happen, including overheating and cavitation.
@@leecarter9525 Yes, that is one of many ways cavitation can happen. Tip speed of a poorly designed pump, poor sealing properties of pumps as well as vane pumps liking higher speed to seal correctly. Also fluid being too hot will boil and aerate. And in that case your method of limiting RPM would absolutely be beneficial if you’re having a fluid heating problem. But so would a properly sized cooler.
Pumps not creating pressure is a well debunked myth. Without the pump, you have no flow. Correct. However, by installing a pressure sensor inside just a bare pump with no load circuit plumbed in. We can now see dramatic spikes inside the pump itself does spike pressures. Especially positive displacement pumps… And the fact that the whole entire system is under pressure. Not just the restriction itself proves that the pump is what is creating pressure. Or at the very least, contributing to it.
I don’t mean any disrespect to you sir. I’ve learned a WHOLE LOT in my career from fellas like yourself and I’m very grateful for that. All I’m getting at is there’s also a lot that the younger guys have to offer and can teach you too. Information and understanding of things changes over time.
@@brandoncrimmins6296 Thank you Brandon for the respectful comment. I appreciate it. I see (and work with) so many young fella's that just want to get it done any ol' way as fast as possible. They don't seem to care about understanding how it works or why it works that way. A service man that learns the details is a good service man. And..., you're right, never too late to teach an old dog new tricks ;) Take care.
I have owned a 3032 E for 5 years. I have asked this very question over and over, and I have always been told operate W.O.T. You are absolutely right about the joystick controls and as soon as I get a chance I am going to test operations at a lower RPM to see if the controls are less touchy. Great video.
I'm glad that you were able to get a video out of my email. If other people asked this question, I will ignore them in my head and take complete credit :)
Haha, fair enough! 🤣
💥 In my experience I’ve found the more the better. I’ve still never used WOT but I always use appropriate PTO RPM.
*Keep on tractoring!*
Haha, more power baby!
I'm with you on this. I am not trying to impress anyone and most times I'm just not in a hurry unless weather is changing for the worse.
I have said this many times and this is a topic that will never end.
Manufactures like to, and need to sell parts. So, worn out parts sell parts,. and parts wear out quicker the harder or faster they are ran,. now lubrication and cooling also fits in there, so does common sense.
And I have said and found this true for me (just personally)I have not blown up an engine yet from running it too slow.
If your hydro's are growling or chattering or stalling or you can recognize the same type sound in the engine from "Lugging" or under-throttling, by all means give it more juice/throttle. (sorry for all the "or's)
At the end of the day this is the operator in the seat that make this final choice of throttle location.
Another point, manufactures are not helping me pay for parts and I am not writing off parts in taxes.
So with those few points I run a little slower most times.
Last comment,. I don't like the hearing W.O.T. for hours at the time, so turning it down makes my seat time more enjoyable.
This is my practice in all equipment even down to chainsaws.
And again I let a saw idle before shutting it down and sometimes choke it to turn it off, blast of raw fuel to cool it internally.
Turbo's running at high rpm's and shutting down abruptly can cook the oil in the bearings, that's a long complicated discussion if you are not familiar with the topic. (ok I'm done)
I’m a new subscriber now. Been watching you awhile and just placed an order thru your website , so I decided it was time to jump in. I’ve owned my Kubota L 4701 for 5 yrs and down to the last yr of notes ( amen ) but I wrestled with this idle question until I became more familiar with the Tractor. At first I ran my Tractor at too low an idle and it would want to regenerate about every 20 hrs. So I bumped up the idle searching for that sweet spot all while learning and observing the nuances of the machine, like the power steering and hydraulics working effectively . I still consider myself a newby because I never been around Tractors growing up and never owned one till this purchase 5 yrs ago. However I have worked hard to learn the machine and it’s safe operation, to the maintenance which can not be over emphasized and I do ALL my own maintenance. While I had no background w/ Tractors I know my way around mechanics. But in truth I know so little and have so much to learn, thanks.
Never Idle a diesel. The fuel is too rich. It washes the lubricants off the cylinder walls, which creates wear.
I was a little surprised that you didn't touch on the topic of engaging the PTO at PTO RPM. I expect the Deere is the same, but Kubota recommends engaging the PTO at a lower RPM, then bringing it up to PTO RPM to avoid damaging the implement. On the L4701, I typically start the tractor with the throttle set for 1500 RPM, let it warm up (probably not long enough, I get impatient), use 2000 to 2200 for just moving around or light bucket work (brush, tools, whatever), then PTO RPM or just below for everything else. Finally, 1500 RPM or so for a short cool down.
We’ll I gotta give you guys something to write about! 🤣
No, I just forgot all about it. You’re spot on though. Engage the PTO at low RPM’s for most machines. If I recall, Deere garden tractors should be mid or higher RPM’s when engaged. Reference your manual 👌
My 1025r rpm is about 1525. That is as slow as it goes. After driving big trucks all my life it sounds and seems like it's screaming.
@@rodbagley1686 the hydraulic pump works better at mid rpms and better unlike a manual transmission it's doesn't matter as much the engine is designed to run mid rpms and up
Yeah I remember we had an older 950 that idled as low as maybe 800 rpm.
1025R idle 1525rpm downhill out of garage. 2000-2500 transit, PTO engaged 1700-1800, then ramp to PTO speed. Idle a minute before shutdown.
Years back I was driving a JD 4020 across the field after helping pull a stuck tractor out. I had a passenger who happened to be a JD mechanic. I always ran the engine at the predetermined stop position. As we were driving back he reached up an pulled the knob and moved it to WOT. He said diesels were meant to run higher and it would not hurt it, and possibly help it.
You are exactly correct on the 3E. It takes lots of practice on feathering the joystick when full throttle.
I modify diesel cars for efficiency as a hobby and even teach on the subject. First, it depends on the engine, you must consult the BSFC chart. Second, depends on the speed of work needed out of that engine, (think gearing). Most diesels have highest efficiency at 70% load from 1500-1700rpm. After 2000 rpm, efficiency typically drops off substantially, and even more so after 2500 rpm.
Great advice Courtney. I guess I’m one of those guys that initially babied my diesel but I soon learned to crank it up to get things done.
I start off at about a 1000 RPM, let the engine warm then run it near wide open 2100-2200 RPM to run the belly mower. At the end of a mow, I turn the mid PTO off, move to 1200 RPM while I’m moving to its storage place. I always clean the air filter and radiator screen after each mow or use the tractor except in winter!
Hey Courtney...Agree on all the points...I like to warm up and cool down. I also learned after a couple of months of owenership from forums to engage and disengage PTO at the lower RPMS then spool up or down to PTO RPM. Rest of the time when not usign attachements with PTO I adjust RPMs according to need. It's not often I run WOT but will if I need to. Great stuff! Thanks for sharing!
Great topic and even better comments and points of view….my overall take on this is….common sense…should prevail….with some proper research and understanding of one’s equipment below them, c,mon….use some common sense….as one commenter said…do you put your pants on while running out the door ? do you go to bed as soon as you get off your tractor ? If the task is lifting heavy loads with the loader, if your not making the tractor do the work at a safe common sense high rpm, then why have use the power of a tractor at all…isn’t that why you bought it ? If one is afraid of wearing it out and have the responsibility of doing / paying for the maintenance, then maybe, one shouldn’t own equipment, rent it and return it !
Again, I believe general common sense should prevail….especially when engaging and disengaging PTO attachments, ie. brush hogs or anything with heavy rotating components, mostly on tractors ( not zero turns or riding mowers…they ain’t tractors) engage them at a low
Sorry, sent too soon…engage tractor PTOs at low rpm, slowly bring rpm up to rated or slightly above rated PTO rpm….go to work…and adjust PTO rpm accordingly while working, upon shutting down, leave PTO on, slowly reduce the rotational implement speed with the engine as to not shock unloading the implement gear train, bring to idle, turn off PTO….cool off tractor especially those with turbos.
When I owned a 2018 JD 1025r for general residential use, I noticed after running it at mid throttle doing loader work for awhile, when I was finished and semi-speeding back to the shop, running it wot, it would cough and sputter as if it had loaded up, after a few minutes at wot, the roughness cleared and it was smooth again, I also noticed this on my 2021 JD 2038r. So WOT for short periods of time will clean out and “exercise” the engine especially if one is accustomed to running engines slow.
So again as a commenter pointed out, run the machine for the task you want it to accomplish.
I’m not advocating beating the crap out of it or babying the crap out of it….use it and maintain it wisely and I believe it will prove to be one of the best investments a tractor lover will ever make.
Be safe out there !
My teenage boys like to use my tractor, they always wanted to hop on the tractor and go full bore and then shut it off immediately when done.
I explained to them that they wouldn't want to wake up and instantly jump out of bed to run a mile. And they also wouldn't want to run a mile and immediately go to bed. Tractor wants to warm up and cool down a few mins. Since then they seem to understand.
Great anology, thanks Hammer!
Wtf. Have you ever heard of the Army? This is exactly what happens.
That might be why I'm about to get a medical retirement 🤔
i pretty much run wide open, or close to it. my primary usage is moving snow. i spend under 6 minutes (based on the hour meter) per driveway, then running off to the next one. i want to throw the snow as far as possible, i'll move the chute and deflector if i need to control where it goes. i don't get paid for going from driveway A to driveway B, so i'm interested in spending as little time as possible in transit. snow here is typically light and fluffy, so i'm running at close to full speed in mid range (sometimes high range - depends on how slippery it is, if i can stop and steer). in the summer i'm building rock walls, and popping stumps, and smoothing out the holes. smoothing out the holes is the only place i'm not running full out. i do run about 1/4 to 1/2 for warm up and cool down as i'm checking out the tractor, and greasing the fittings. it's all about getting the most done in the least amount of time, and keeping the tractor working for me.
Yep, agree with all of that. Thanks for taking the time to share!
When I warm up my tractor when it's very cold out I let it run for about 30 seconds at low idle then I bump it up to 1,000 RPM and I engage the PTO then I let it run for about 5 to 10 minutes after that the tractor is warm enough to use. Engaging the PTO gets the hydraulic pump moving and all the hydraulic fluid flowing and warming up as well instead of just warming up your engine letting your tractor sit with your hydraulic pump pump pumping it warms up all the fluids
I've watched hours of these (and other channels) videos prior to purchasing a tractor. The real goldmine is always in the comments!
WOT when doing any work. The only reason I lower RPMs is because I want to lower noise, start up PTO, or warm up the tractor. It doesn’t feel right operating at lower RPMs. Per manual, it says to run at ‘rated RPM’ (WOT) so HST has proper flow and cooling. Only reason stated in manual about lower RPM is for when starting up PTO. Not sure why anyone wants to run a lower RPM when doing work…no sense in it…maybe they think they’re being easier on the tractor or saving fuel. Also find I use L HST mostly as at WOT, speed is equate when going over bumpy ground. M is faster, but uncomfortable when it’s bumpy and can’t use all the speed. H is only good for road travel. In comparison you can lower RPM, use M, and foot to the floor, but it feels and performs better to use WOT, L, and foot to the floor.
Good points, and as an older diesel mechanic, I've seen that babying a diesel can do more harm than good!
WOT when not under load is not a good idea either (when working a machine with a diesel engine, the phrase "Run it like you stole it!" comes to mind!
BUT! Even though diesel engines are more robust (relying on compression as the ignition source!) than gasoline engines, keep your oil changes on regular intervals, and keeping clean fuel! If you don't, parts wear quicker, and RPMs become a moot point!
When I had a half ton diesel truck that was how those with higher mileage trucks and minimal emission equipment failures said to handle them. Get it hot and work it. No babying it or to many short trips.
I'm usually at PTO rpm for almost everything i do with my 1025r. I find that the ground speed is too slow for most applications with it lower. Maybe if Deere could get it together and offer a 3 range hydrostatic then I could save some fuel. 😁
Lol, I hear ya there!! 🤣
Many implements operate the best at the recommended 540 pto rpm. On my tractor which is a yanmar sc2400 I have found that my mid mount mower mows much nicer even though the engine rpm is at 3250 which feels a bit high.
One nice feature on my new 2023 1025R is a PTO “throttle” control…separate from the engine. It fine tunes the speed your hydraulics move…..no need to throttle the engine!
I never noticed the PTO setting on the tach. Thanks. I have a Deere 1023E. I mow at 2200 RPM and blow snow at 2900 RPM or so. Perhaps I should wind up a tad more. I always "cool down". I ran diesel fishing boats up to 550 HP in fairly high speed vessels. I ALWAYS cooled down after a long, or even shortish run. I knew guys who shut down hot with 430 Cummins and dropped valve seats. Big trouble!
The only time I run at W.O.T. is with a PTO attachment or filling up the loader bucket in a pile of dirt. Other times it's half or less. I'm in no hurry anymore and for me running at W.O.T. is wasting fuel unless I need the power. Again that's just how I do it. Interesting in reading all the other comments. Thanks for bringing up this question.
I'm with you on this. I am not trying to impress anyone and most times I'm just not in a hurry unless weather is changing for the worse.
I have said this many times and this is a topic that will never end.
Manufactures like to, and need to sell parts. So, worn out parts sell parts,. and parts wear out quicker the harder or faster they are ran,. now lubrication and cooling also fits in there, so does common sense.
And I have said and found this true for me (just personally)I have not blown up an engine yet from running it too slow.
If your hydro's are growling or chattering or stalling or you can recognize the same type sound in the engine from "Lugging" or under-throttling, by all means give it more juice/throttle. (sorry for all the "or's)
At the end of the day this is the operator in the seat that make this final choice of throttle location.
Another point, manufactures are not helping me pay for parts and I am not writing off parts in taxes.
So with those few points I run a little slower most times.
Last comment,. I don't like the hearing W.O.T. for hours at the time, so turning it down makes my seat time more enjoyable.
This is my practice in all equipment even down to chainsaws.
And again I let a saw idle before shutting it down and sometimes choke it to turn it off, blast of raw fuel to cool it internally.
Turbo's running at high rpm's and shutting down abruptly can cook the oil in the bearings, that's a long complicated discussion if you are not familiar with the topic. (ok I'm done)
From what I have been told you also run higher rpm’s cause of better/higher oil pressure for engine
I grew up on a farm ….. family owned grain elevator and trucking company ……. Summer college job was a county highway department with heavy equipment. I was taught if you are working the engine hard ………. You never lug a diesel. Adjust rpm to rated maximum and operate within a couple hundred rpm of that.
I think that's sound advice...I basically do the same.
@@GoodWorksTractors I am 69 …… so I am proudly old. I realize that many new diesel are designed for fuel economy at lower rpm. I had a 8v 92ta 435 hp international cab over that would run up the egt really fast if you didn’t keep it up in the rpms. In its day it was a real horse and would run all day at 2100 rpm.
Glad i watched this for I'm new to tractor ownership. Have had ny 2025r not quite a year and always felt it was running hard at the high end. I've mainly mowed with it with some light front loader work and a small amount of brush hogging. This year i suspect I'll be running those last 2 implements more so definately good to know for i like taking care of my things. Thanks.
Great information! I was letting my tractor warm up but not letting it idle for a few minutes before shutting down. 1025R (Thanks)
Nice to hear from you, thanks!
Two problems with running at lower speeds, not enough pump flow for cooling and operating closer to the natural torsional frequency of the drivetrain. From the nose of the crank to the axle flange, those torsional vibrations at low rpm’s can rack up a lot of damage quickly.
On my diesel zero turn I run it W.O.T. to get the correct blade speed as per owners manual. I am a trained marine diesel mechanic. We were taught to run diesels at 80% of W.O.T. unless full power was needed for a short period of time. 80% rpms was higher torque than 100% rpms (keep the engine in its torque range) the extra RPM's were for horsepower. On my 4760 I start engine at idle, warm up and cool down is at 1200 RPMs. I operate (non pto) at 2000 rpms. My tractor has auto throttle but I don't use it. My joystick has a throttle button that does not change ground speed but does increase hydraulic flow which I set at 2200 rpms. My fuel use meter shows I am using about 2/3rds gallon per hour and my tractor stays in the medium range and I shift high to low when doing loader work.
If you start hearing strange humming from your tractor transmission when running hydraulics/pto (not the typical hydraulic noise) your trans is getting hot from TOO LOW RPM or you are low on fluid.
If you are working the tractor hard like digging with a loader or pulling a heavy load use full throttle! You don’t want to lug the engine down and stall it, because it can damage the engine. Bending a connecting rod is possible.
I like the auto throttle feature in my 4r very handy when doing loader work. I've always been told to idle a engine down for a few minutes before shutting it off and always start it at idle. Always run the powered implement at the required speed nothing more nothing else both can be as bad as the other. We I do loader work I normally run with only the foot throttle (4r excluded) helps reduce clutch wear, and pushing on the loader to hard and spinning the wheels.
I agree, AutoThrottle definitely has it's place. I never turn it off on my 4 Series.
@@GoodWorksTractors it is a handy feature and it was something I didn't thing I would use but its on for 70% of the time
well most engins run best at 2000 to 2500 rpm. yes usen a pot may require more rpm. but for long haul should keep in that range runs plenty hot for dpf and still get good response out of hydraulics. evory trator is a little diffrent tho.
I checked the printed torque, horse power and fuel consumption graph from the mfg. Best fuel economy is concurrent with max torque which occurs at 1,800 RPM.
Well, as many of my diesel mechanic brethren have said, yes run them faster. There is actually a name for the RPM range you are intended to run them under a load, it's Torque Rise, it's the range between where peak Torque and peak Horsepower occurs as every engine is different, you need to find out where each of those occur on your model and only load the engine while in that range.
Next. I was Shocked to see that the same diesel brethren totally dropped the ball on telling you that your diesel engine does not have a throttle. A throttle is those round butterfly thingy's in the air intake that aid in causing a stoitiometric fuel mixture. Diesels by their very nature run lean, air is not regulated in any way in a diesel, if you want a diesel to go faster, you put the fuel in larger amounts. Hence you can go to a full fuel condition, or accelerate it until it reaches maximum governor RPM but there is no such thing as wide open throttle on a diesel.
If your turbocharged engine is hot and ran on high rpm, dont't shut off! Let it run two minutes to let the turbo come down from his rpm's - if you shut down the engine there is no fresh oil to cool the turbo and the oil in the turbo burns to coal - the end of your turbo
Do you cold start your tractor by raising the throttle up? Seems like if it's 20 below that would be a bad idea but that's what the manual says to do. I never have.
My rule of thumb has always been idle till it’s at operating temp then give her the beans and let her eat. And definitely avoid lugging at all costs.
Great to see a new video
Hope you enjoyed it!
I run my batwing at about 2.2K RPM in normal PTO and about 1800 for EPTO on my Kubota M4D. Most other implements can get by with 1500 or so.
The new engines with computers if the wrong numbers are put in they can burn the engine up or will have poor power and will never do a proper regen.been there an seen it happen.Always let the engine cool down after working it 3---5minutes.spit a turbo runs $1000-4000.drop a valve.call your dealer an take a pill.was good things in this video.Thank You Sir
I usually keep my RPMs high when I’m doing loader work just incase I need to drop the loader in a hurry to prevent a tip over.
Great information as always!!! Thanks for the video😁👍
Much appreciated, have a good one!
Diesel engines are much better for constant RPM and varying load, while gas engines do better at constant load and varying speed.
That's part of the reason diesels are used for industrial generators, big trucks, and large marine engines; while gassers are used for sports cars. Set that diesel at a given RPM and it'll torque it's way through any load variation way, way better than a gas engine. (Think F-250 with the Godzilla gas engine, pulling a gooseneck......watch that transmission hunt for gears when the front tires hit an incline, vs a Powestroke pulling the same trailer....)
The gas engine will rev up and down much more quickly, but it isn't nearly as capable at holding RPM when loads change.
Bottom line with a diesel....pick a comfortable RPM band and let that diesel do it's magic no matter what the load on the front or rear is doing.
GOOD STUFF!
Thanks DD!
I have to remind myself that we are talking about subcompact tractors here. Almost all the larger tractors have the 540 mark well below wide open. I personally never run a tractor above the 540 PTO mark (except in the circumstance where I was pulling a 15ft Rhino batwing brushhog with a Kubota M105X. Even though it was 105 horse, it didn't quite have the oomph to run it without being wide open). Sometimes I don't even run the tractors at the 540 line. I've run old tractors a lot in my life, and you get used to being able to hear when you're letting the engine load up to much. As long as it isn't loading up and your tool is doing what you want it to do, you don't need to run any faster. Again that is on old equipment though that one: is pretty much all torque, and two: you don't want to wear that engine out any quicker than you have to.
all your tractors enjoy mojitos with lime
I don't know if you addressed this...But 12 minutes was beyond my attention span. I have a JD 4400 & 4600 (2000-year models bought new) I just read the owner's manual about idle speed. The manual said "slow idle was 950 rpm. As a child on a farm (1964+) I was told not to idle a tractor below 1500 rpm. The idea was that below "official idle speed", the engine wouldn't get proper lubrication. The engine doesn't sound right to me at a lower rpm. I've loaned friends a tractor. And walked up on them idling it as low as it goes , even though I specified otherwise. NEVER LOAN EQUIPMENT !! 🤨
I doubt engines are made so the lubrication system ceases or operates at a deficient capacity at lower rpm. If such an engine was made it would not last.
@Karl Degraa you may be right. Maybe my dad made it up. All my cars and motorcycles had a set low idle specification. And on a forum where lots of people were using larger V twin gas equipment. People were recommending NOT running them long term at half throttle to reduce the psi on a pump.
BUT...I have been taught that there is nothing that is a given FACT these days. Girls with penises do better in sports than girls without. 🤣
And now that I've thought even more about this. The dealer that sold me my 1st new tractor in 1980 told me this when I lowered the rpm while talking to him as I was loading it on my trailer.
3 pt post-hole diggers should generally be operated at low rpms. At least the one I've used.
The post hole digger was the question. My land pride auger says to not go above 300 pto speed
I been running my grandpas b2710 kubota at around 1800-2000 rpm for years. Ive went to like 2200 before but pto speed which is like 2500 just feels like it's overkill. Joystick is really jerky at that high. Never had a need for that much juice.
Interesting about WOT, I've always stayed low but might turn it up a notch.👍🏝
Go crazy! 🤣
I have the "linked pedal" on my Kioti 5310se hydrostat tractor so I never have it throttled up very high. My tractor runs great and I have not had any troubles with it at all.
I have a JD 3025E with a backhoe. The attaching and detaching instructions say to have the ranging at idle while operating the backhoe controls for attaching and detaching. Even at idle, I have scared myself when adjusting the boom!
On the hydstat transmission low rpms are not it's friend when using the tractor
Back in the days... Detroit diesels were run wide open, Cat diesels opposite. Basically don't labor your diesel engine no matter what work your doing. These compact tractors, let her rip, snort a little, or humm along. They seem to run just fine for a long time.
Rear mounted drive forward snow blower ? How well does it clean the snow that has been driven on ?
Follow the manufacture’s manual.
Always
Love your videos my friend!!
Thanks so much!
I thought hydraulic power was based on fluid pressure, and hydraulic speed by flow. Isn’t the pressure in the system relatively constant and flow variable based on RPM? I don’t notice any difference in loader lift with lower RPM, but it does respond more slowly. For PTO I run at rated RPM (2500). For loader work I go mid throttle or so (around 1700rpm). If I want faster loader response for a short burst, I just hit the foot throttle to speed things up a bit. Usually that isn’t necessary.
I use my L3901 gear drive as a light utility tractor around the property and also commercially in my tree service. For loader work and transport I normally have the hand throttle set half way and use the foot throttle to get my transport speed and loader speed where I want them at any given moment. I wonder how many owners of small tractors could ever wear out an engine if they ran it at speed when they were using it. Most small tractor owners just don’t put many hours on their machines in their lifetime. Think of the DPF dealer service interval is something like 5000hrs, most will never see anything close to that.
I think all tractor needs an exhaust pyrometers
Antigen or kerosene which is better to add to fuel in winter.?
My two strokes love WOT.
Good topic. Thank you
Glad you liked it!
Very helpful. So my tractor says "rated speed is 2600 rpm" Does that mean at 2600 rpm I will have 540 rpm at the PTO? Not related to WOT? WOT is just whatever the rpm gauge reads when I move the throttle all the way up/open?
Great information!
Great instructions
Can`t help it. I am curious. What is the hook behind the light for?
It's not a race car, it's a tractor. No need to run WOT. Take your time and be safe. Running WOT is when people have accidents.
It depends. On some tractors, WOT is what's necessary to bring the PTO up to the correct speed. Just as an example, mowing certain grasses on a Chalmers 8030. I had it at WOT in 1st gear and the cattail grass in the field still made it bog.
Wide open throttle as much as possible. The engine runs cooler and has more power. Run at pto rpm when using it and use at least half throttle when doing anything else. Let it idle for a few minutes after running hard. I have a Kubota L3010 and after mowing I let it idle and can actually see the temp gauge come down. Another point is the term “high idle.” The engine is turning faster, but is still technically idling until a load is applied.
Good stuff, thanks for sharing!
I've rarely run WOT on a 1025r and usually only with the mid mount mower. Less RPM means less dust and less damage when hitting something hard. The 1025r has minimal clearance and at full height, the mower deck hits pine roots if I'm not paying attention. I run it well above minimal RPM needed to cut grass but only WOT if it starts to bog down.
I run mine @ full tilt my Deere loves it
Great video Courtney!. good information and timely advise. You addressed questions i had about this topic. Thank you again. Have a great day and be safe guys!. Tim
Other than warm up, and cool down always run above the start of the torque peak at all times. On these small tractors it is usually magically 1800rpm... generator speed. If your running anything on the back run 100rpm above 540 speed, and load it down to 540 speed. The bigger story is the required min rpm of the hydrostatic pump, usually 80% of rated rpm, again 1800rpm. Its like Engineers built these tractors using math or something, lol.
So may be a silly question now... but what rpm # would you use pushing snow with the 1025R? I have kept mine in the 26-2700.
Yeah, normally pretty high, but I will adjust depending on traction/ice/etc. Sometimes running a little lower will help prevent slippage...easier to control than foot pressure on the pedal.
@@GoodWorksTractors Ok Thanks!
I just realized the Whistlin diesel hat
In the background
Haha, yeah, he's an interesting dude!
Ahh... did JD just come out with a 4k front quick attach?
Using the PTO; (1) warm the engine up (2) engage PTO (3) bring throttle to full power. Never SLAM your attachment into PTO drive.
Good stuff :)
Diesel engines like running loaded more than unloaded. To achieve a greater load on the engine it can be better to run in a higher gear at a lower engine rpm (when the situation allows).
Higher engine loads mean more fuel and as a result less unused oxygen in the combustion chamber. Unused oxygen in the combustion chamber will combine with atmospheric nitrogen to produce NOx.
One thing not mentioned that may deserve comment is engine RPM in regard to hydrostat transmissions.
Compared to gear drive?
Gear drive tractors can move just fine at mid-low RPMs in high range, if not under load. Hydrostatic transmissions need flow, especially in high range, for both cooling and actually moving well, even when not under load.
@@GoodWorksTractors Spud Gamer's answer was along my train of thought.
I have a question not related to this video but wanted it to get attention in hopes to find an answer. Why does my 300 X loader appear to have three different sets of holes on the vertical loader support arms? Is it so that their variations and lift capacity and maximum height?
Sometimes a few of the holes are only used during shipping.
Any body ever start an engine an time how long it takes for oil to flow from the rocker arms when engine temp is at -0 or colder??older cumins manuals said 3-5minutes.i checked an yes gauge says got pressure any yes i'am old f_rt.when paycheck depends on do i take care of it and have to fix it so i can work today and tomorrow and keep my job??when you earn your keep and pay for your mistakes you better rethink am in that biga hurry.maybe the boss and customer won't mind waiting for a rebuild or a different truck..only a day or 2 weeks?i check the fluids and start at idle.let warm til engine oil filter is warm to touch or temp about 100 degrees then load slow throttle up maybe 1/2 til near operating temp then go for it.got a dry clutch near idle before letting the clutch out.NEVER under a full load.some older tractors would shear flywheel bolts or worse the crank.even powershifts i throttle back and 4 wheeldrives throttle back to 16-1700 on the ends.don't be the 1 nobody will let you use their equipment.run it like ya stole it??really??an deere on the 20series put out who's afraid of the stop.some folks didn't know and those who used the foot throttle wide open all the time got it cut off.common sense.do you put your clothes on while running out the door before breakfast?engage pto at idle an throttle down some on turns.maybe keep from throwing the shaft an ujoints at your head.learn from other peoples mistakes.it's cheaper remember your paycheck feeds the family.oh and fix it before it can't be used an ya ain't got the time.
We run our frack pumps at max RPM for hours at a time and we get 10,000-12,000 hours out of them
I have a new JD 4044 tractor and have been trying to figure out this very issue of best rpm when brush hogging and also finding a gear and speed to cut comfortably and keep forward HST pedal engaged as much as possible. My tractor has something called "Speed Match" which lets you set your max travel speed and once set you put the forward travel pedal to the floor to achieve that speed. Does anyone know what effect this might have on the cycling of the HST oil since the forward pedal is fully depressed most of the time?
One thing I've always been confused about, well there's lots of things..lol, but I've always heard that higher rpm's doesn't translate into more hydraulic power. Is that not true?
It’s been proven, higher engine RPM does not result in more hydraulic power.
Power is more than just pressure, it is also flow, in the same way as power isn't just torque, but also RPM. So, even if the upper pressure limit is set by the pressure relief valve, the flow is increased with increased RPM, and therefore power.
My dealer told me to run mine at full throttle whenever working the tractor.
Modern tractors run at WOT. Period. There is only one issue here... hydraulics. What pressure are the hydraulics designed to operate at? WOT. Hydrostatic transmission? WOT. What speed was the engine designed to operate at to support the hydraulics? WOT. You want to spend a lot of time and money fixing your tractor... run it at 1/2 throttle. In a hurry for a repair bill? Run it at less than WOT in high gear. Just the groaning noise the hydraulics make at less than WOT should tell you that even if you are not mechanically inclined.
Miss the real videos
warm it up, rev it up, drive it like you stole it
If you dont run the def diesel at high rpm your going to have trouble
The worst thing you can do is lug the engine. Run it at the PTO rpm.
Put it to the wood
Running the engine faster than the maximum output of the hydraulic pump is totally useless.find out what that rpm is and stay there.Stop the clutch type mentality and learn how to run a machine that has an engine connected to a PUMP!
Book says wfo fer my sub com.
Haven’t done that yet, too sketchy
My guess if you’re running hydraulics besides the hst just moving and you’re quick with the controls such as backhoe than yuh I’d believe to run it wo as that’s how most pros do it to keep the pressure up. 🤷♀️
I just run it where the engine sounds good for whatever