Is It Cheaper to Leave Your Heating on Constantly?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- Should you be running your heating constantly or are you better off using your timer?
Roger gives us his money-saving advice to reduce your fuel bills this winter.
Energy myth-busting with Money Saving Expert:
The energy market is in crisis. There are no cheap energy deals due to record wholesale prices (what providers pay), so using less is the best way to save right now. There are obvious ways to cut your usage, such as wearing jumpers and turning lights off, but this guide aims to crack the less-obvious energy conundrums, including if it's cheaper to keep your heating on low all day, or whether painting your radiators black can help.
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Back in 1985 me and the wife bought our ist house, 1930's semi with solid walls -no cavity. We lasted 2 winters before we put central heating in operating on a timer. On twice a day, best money spent ever. Prior to this in winter you got up for work and out the door asap, coming home who ever was in first put 2 gas fires on full and cooked the tea in your coat until house warmed up. I've spent 10K having my next house clad in exterior insulation (1960's house also no cavity) so time will tell about constant 18 deg heat in day time 20 evening operating on thermostat which is my option with a kitchen lounge with under flloor heating. God help the pensioners next winter.
1960s and no cavity? Seems odd.
Only jerry builders were building non cavity houses in the 60s. I thought building regs banned this well before. My father designed and built a bungalow in 1954 with cavity walls.
How many people can tell what a cavity construction is or even care and buy a house with their eyes shut.
My Sister has a brand new house all AAA insulation etc and it's Feb, freezing outside and she put's it on for about 30 in the morning. She say the house gets so warm she have to use fans to cool it down.
I wish my house worked that way I can have my heating on full blast 30+c and thermometers all over the house confirm the temp. If I turn the heating off the temp just drops like a stone within 20mins down to 20c then 18c. My house has cavity wall insulation, loft insulation, insulated wallpaper. I have insulated all the hot pipes, even put insulation between the joists between the bottom floor ceiling and upstairs floors. The boiler works fine and gets a yearly check. The rads all get hot, from top to bottom, It's like living in a fridge. I have double glazing, use thick thermal curtains & thermal blinds behind those, bubble wrap on the glass. The house does get hot but just does not hold it. I have given up using my central heating. it's pointless.
It's layers of warm cloths and a blanket to keep warm.
Greetings from Poland. 🇵🇱 When I am listening your lectures I wonder were your ancestors Polish. You really look like Pole with British angry face. :)
God bless and nice videos !
Lots of factors to consider. We have great insulation, underfloor heating and missus is working from home so we never touch it.
Same here. I have 200mm pir underneath the slab and the house is SIPS construction. We have found we used less last winter by keeping it on and never letting the slab cool.
Witchers don't get cold surely
Thank you - well explained. Here is the answer slightly more mathematically (without the equations)
It is simple physics - the amount of energy to heat your house is fundamentally based on the temperature between the outside and inside and the insulation over all the surfaces of the house. Simple, it is fundamental (since your insulation does not change day to day), the difference between the temperature difference. So if you turn off the heating at night, then the temperature difference is lower so lower energy loss - simple. Heat capacity (the thermal mass), only affects the hysteresis (delay of heat changes) and comfort to you. You save energy by : improve the insulation or turn down the temperature at any point in the day - so reducing the temperature gradient - the integral over time of temperature difference.
There is one additional factor - drafts - which can cause forced cooling - just assume if you get rid of drafts (without creating condensation), then your reduce cooling.
Just remember - solar gain does not change - it heats your house, regardless of the temperature inside. It is useful to hear your house but does not change the fundamental issue that energy required to heat the house is directly proportional to the of the temperature difference.
Rain causes increased loss by evaporation from the walls, but again, that is a problem as it cools the house, but that cooling is the same regardless.
Here is the equation : Q=U*A*ΔT (Q = heat, A = area (ie the sum of walls), U = the insulation value (which varies enormously - windows are 10x worse than a wall, and finall "delta-temperature" the difference in temperature).
You don't hear an awful lot about thermal gradients these days. Basic building technology stuff at college in the eighties though
This video came up tonight even though it was recorded a year ago but your comments re being in control of our heating are spot on. On 14th March 2024 we had a mini heat wave in Derby - 15 degrees so I didn't switch the heating on all day!!
I’m a semi retired contractor near Chicago and find your perspective very interesting because of the differences in practice and environment factors
It's cheaper to switch it of and f##kk of to the pub, where they have a roaring open fire,,🥳
"just keep moving, keep exercising"
Great life advice
Saw in the news an energy boss had to apologise for saying this
Have people forgotten all the water saving advice?
The whole world should be singing from the same sheet: consume less, live more
I get this -thanks for video. We have an air to heat pump - with double / triple layer radiators. Installed from new 10 years ago into a one off 4 bed detached which had to meet certain environmental performance levels to get planning permission. I get what is being said here - but at the extreme end of the scale there are things we have learnt - and the main one is do not treat a heat pump like a gas boiler. So in the early years over winter it would be everything off at night. We would come down at 0610 and switch heating on. By the time we were feeling the difference we were off to work and switched it off again. So now we will set thermostat overnight to say 16C (for example). Depending on the outside ambient temperature the pump may fire a few times in the night, but the object is to keep the pump pipes warm and the internal ambient temp at least 16C. Then when we raise the temp to 18/19 at 0610 there is a nice rise in temp noticeable quickly. So we do leave our pump "on" 24/7 in the winder, but it is not running all the time, it is just ready to catch the daytime and night-time preferred temp. For hot water we run it in the warmest part of the day and store the hot water for later. Mark,.
We have our gas central heating on timed. On at 05.45, half hour before rising, off at 21.00 just before we go to bed. My partner works from home as a beautician, so heat has to be on most of the day. After much fiddling with timer and TRV's we found that an initial boost to 20c in the morning until 8am then it's set to 19c until 10am then 18c until 3pm then increasing back up to 18 and 19c later in the afternoon/evening. Works perfectly. We are in rented house, old 1970's rads :( poor loft insulation, some sort of blown cavity insulation and thankfully double glazed. New Baxi boiler 1 year old (not the best I have to say). Large 4 bed house, cold kitchen, large hallway. Keeping room doors closed helps. We have unused room rads on low. We found that 24/7 heating made it very stuffy at night and I can't sleep when it's too hot & stuffy. We keep the most often used rooms at a comfortable temperature and I'm a strict old git for having heating off 1st May until Mid October earliest lol
We found that 24/7 vs timed was costing us more.
How much are you spending per day for that?
Surprised the Opentherm standard hasn't taken off more in the UK. People are overusing energy because mostly all boilers are set up to be either off or full temperature and nothing in-between and this ends up with overshooting the target temperature. Opentherm modulates the boiler so it backs off as it approaches the target, much like you slow down when you approach a traffic light. I think a lot of newer boilers are now capable of Opentherm yet installers don't understand it so just fit an on/off control.
I would recommend using weather compensation in the UK precisely for the reasons that Roger gives, I'm also a fan of programmable room thermostats, where I time shift the temperature throughout the day, my house has default temp. of 18deg.c
Mathew,
You hit the nail on the head here my friend, Opentherm is essentially the means of smartly controlling the boiler modulation, much like the commercial controls solutions that I install.
Essentially as the boiler flow and return temperatures get closer together (this is called DeltaT) the smart thermostat (Nest, Hive) etc will reduce its signal to the boiler and allow the boiler flame to subside to a minimum output and its during this time the boiler is operating at its most efficient.
Yes, I have the Nest Gen 3 which is Opentherm compliant, although my boiler is a Worcester Bosch so I bought an adapter from the Netherlands to convert WB language to the Opentherm standard. The Nest does weather compensation as it gets live weather data and also learns how fast is takes my house to heat up so all in all a good solution. I think the optimum temperature is around 55oC for condensing and you can see on my boiler the temp going up and down as it modulates to suit. It means your radiators are not always red hot which can confuse people but it’s doing its job!
Imagine the amount of gas we would save as a country if all boilers were set-up with Opentherm - bet that wasn’t mentioned at COP26! 😏
Vaillant/Gloworm is eBUS many others are OpenTherm, problem is the installers not pushing it and/or consumers not wanting to replace all their existing controls with compatible ones.
Also why Vaillant is one of few suppliers that do not support OpenTherm in the UK (yes in NL they do but officially do not sell the board to make that compatible), but their eBUS does the same thing if using their own controls.
Yea, it should be made standard for all new installs, it’s a no brainer especially in a emission-conscious world we’re now living in. But again installers are either not aware or just don’t understand the technology. I know Baxi, Ideal and Intergas support the Opentherm standard and others do their own propitiatory version.
The best strategy is to holiday in Siberia in the winter, you'll come back to the UK and be running around in shorts and T-shirt saying "this weather is wonderful!"
Try tomorrow morning’s temperature in Chicago 4f for the rest of the world -15c
I wear shorts everyday.
@Random somebodies in a mood
Save yer money mate. No need for Siberia - just have a cold shower every morning.
After you’ve woken up the neighbours with your screams, turned off the tap and dried yourself down, you’ll feel fantastic - and warm all over!
They probably have cheaper heating costs in Siberia...
At current UK gas prices (December 2022) it would cost you about 20 quid to keep your heating on 24 hours a day in an average insulated 4 bed detatched.
I live in a 3 bed mid-terrace built in the 70s. in South of England. I have done my upmost to reduce heating bills over the years. Topped up my loft insulation, replaced all the windows and doors four years ago and ground floor has insulation under 12mm laminate flooring. TRVs on all but 2 rads. (bathroom and hall, where thermostat is).Cavity walls are not insulated though. Even in the current cold conditions, we are running our gas boiler (14 years old and well serviced) at 60c and set the thermostat at 19c. Heating comes on at 6am and goes off at 10pm. It only drops to 18c in the lounge overnight from about 20c during the day. We are retired, so we need the heat on all day (unless we are out). I am impressed that there is only a 2c drop in the coldest time overnight over an 8 hour period.
I keep my heating set to a standard 17’C for a constant, and if I feel like it’s a little cold I turn it up to 20’C for a couple hours, and then back down again, what I found is that over the year, it only costs me about £5-10 more a month to do it that way, and I’m happy paying that, especially given my schedule means I’m in and out randomly.
Gosh, I’d feel freezing if the house was below 68°F (20°C)! Offices are almost always kept at 72° (22°) because that is always thought to be a comfortable temperature for sedentary occupants. My friends and I had to ask a friend to turn his heating up from 64°F (18°) when we visited last winter because we were all so cold! I always keep my thermostat at 72°F (22°C) and turn it up a degree or so if I feel cold.
I live in a flat; most of the time I leave my heating off and rely on the the thermal gradient between me and my neighbours to keep myself comfortable.
As an HVAC pro. Set a temperature you are comfortable with and enjoy your home. In the winter my system is never off. I have my system programed to turn the temperature down a bit while I'm at work and in the middle of the night. If your bills are to high add insulation and seal up your home. If that still doesn't help upgrade to a more efficient heating system. After all that if you are still unhappy move to a smaller place that you can afford to keep comfortable. Big windows and tall ceilings often make for an uncomfortable home.
Orrrrr.... instead of moving house they could simply apply some common sense and logic by turning the heating off when they're out/when it's not needed lol how anyone could attempt to argue against the Laws of physics/Thermodynamics is beyond me - I always leave my engine running incase I need to go anywhere, cheaper than turning it on again
@@numerouno2532 That comparison doesen't make any sense
@@soulfester6241 I know! I also leave the oven on the whole day because it's cheaper than waiting for it to heat up again every time.
@@numerouno2532 The comparison is different yet it's nonsense like the other one 🤣 How can you compare those two things to not having your home reach 15 degrees and then having to heat up every evening all the way to 20/21?
@@soulfester6241 I know, did I mention I keep my toilet button pressed down constantly too?
If I see members of the house swanning about in a t-shirt, I turn the temperature down. Getting all the radiators with thermostats is only half the battle. We have it so easy these days when I used to, as a child, have to get dressed under the covers of the bed (after letting the clothes defrost) before emerging dressed. At the moment it doesn't help living in a building site, but that too will pass.
And once dressed, trying to scratch a hole in the frost on the inside of the bedroom window, to check the weather!
I tested this theory-
At one point in the past, I lived in a draughty 120 year old 2 up 2 down terraced house with part double glazing, slate roof, draughty loft with a couple of layers of loft insulation/ boards etc
I had gas central heating, which just about coped in winter, I tried 2 experiments over a week.
1. Heating timed to come on for an hour in the morning, then off all day, had good day time heat if the sun was heating through the windows. Mostly it wasn't! Then the heating came on for a couple of hours in the evening. Then off the rest of the night.
2. Manually put the heating on first thing in the morning and have it on all day and evening, turn it off before bedtime.
What I found was the heating used the most gas getting the house up to temperature from cold.
Leaving it on all day used slightly more gas but the benefit was a cosy warm house all day.
So in the week when we were at work the house was empty so we had the heating on in the morning, off all day then back on in the evening.
At weekends we left it running all day.
That seemed to be a good compromise that worked for us.
Turning it off during the day at weekends didn't actually save that much money.
Because the heating is just ticking over cutting in every so often, it's easier for the boiler to maintain a steady temp rather than having to heat up a house from cold.
I had a lot of thermal loses in that house to be fair, in the end I cut my loses and got a more modern, thermally efficient house.
Exactly as expected. :-)
Yep, you are right,
Your answer is better.
Obviously, switching the heating off, will save some fuel, because, obviously, for a time the house being colder, the heat loss will slow down.
BUT, as you mentioned, the saving will be minimal, and so, will not justify the hassle of being cold till it heats back.
The same goes for heat recovery systems. Those are damn expensive, and the heat loss for the few minutes every day opening the windows will be much cheaper than the gizmo.
Leave it on continuously and set the temperature to 14 minimum and turn it up when you need it warmer. You will keep away from the dew point and remove any damp corner mould problems
In essence your idea of running the heating all day would have worked, if you set the target temperature higher to start with and then each hour reduced it by 1 degree throughout the day, then increased by 1 degree an hour to reach a desired occupancy temperature by the time you come home. So maybe 20 by 08:00, then 19 by 09:00 and so on until you reach 15 by 01:00 and then slowly increasing again so that by 04:00 it would be 18 and by 18:00 it would be 20 which you again can slowly drop over the evening until bed time.
@@PabloMartinezLive You're absolutely right, maintaining a level of heat that is comfortable and efficient for the boiler to maintain, without letting the temperature drop to steeply would have been the optimum way to run it.
But the system was an older type with quite a basic electronic LCD display type controller. So it was either off, on constant or timer with very basic on and off timing options, the thermostat was a rotary mechanical type on the wall, not the most accurate but functional.
Although to be fair I had individual rad thermostat valves and had 2 zones of heating upstairs and downstairs, I just used to leave everything fully open because we needed the whole house heating, having a family and multiple bedrooms.
The heating system we have now is a much more efficient condensing boiler type with a tado controller, so I have much better app control and finer control of temp etc
At the time of the experiment, I just wanted a system I could set and leave, not have to monitor it or adjust etc
So it was a good valid test that confirmed to me the most gas used was getting the temps up to comfort level from cold ie first thing in the morning, then later in the day in the evening after it had been off all day.
The most efficient for us was a mix of leaving it on all day at weekends when we were all mostly at home and shutting it off during the week in the daytime as we were at work or school.
What I could have done further was find that optimum temp of comfort and efficiency, which is more or less what you suggest by adjusting the temp to the lowest setting possible without shutting it off completely to maintain a suitable level of comfort.
My test was like an all or nothing approach, in winter our heating was on full, it was a cold house with outside winter temps of -5c up to 7 or 8c max, 10c maybe on warmer days through winter but very rare.
Those were the days with the solar gains through the windows our house warmed up naturally without any additional heating but they were the exception rather than the norm.
The conclusion was leaving the heating on all day used more gas but surprisingly not that much more.
It was an easy decision to make for us, I remember how cold my house was growing up, just a single coal fire down stairs heating an old back boiler that didn't really work properly!
Yes frost on the inside of my bedroom window, condensation, damp walls, my mum trying to make a fire first thing in the morning, us all huddled round it in our coats shivering!
I also remember my dad fitting central heating in that same house and the difference through winter was incredible, we were TOO hot lol happy days! 😊
It’s cheaper to leave if off most of the time when possible. Get a hot water bottle and an extra jumper then go to sleep 🛌 Wake up the next day & go and work in someone else’s warm house 🏡 🥵
Lovely damp feeling bedding and clothes that never dry. 😔
@@TurinTuramber Great point, very true,…..I have a very well insulated castle so it retains heat and doesn’t feel damp…… I do however visit homes which are full of mould because they don’t air their homes or put on the heating combined with the moisture producing human habits ie. Bathing, cooking etc
@@TurinTuramber My house has so much damp that when I put the heating on I get condensation literally running down the walls. :-(
@@TurinTuramber dehumidifier sorts the clothes drying.
@@djtaylorutube I would put the heating on long before I run dehumidifiers!! I moved out when I was 19 so was poor and cold for many years. These days I like my comforts.
My 4 bed semi takes so long to heat up that if we left the hearing off 8 hours during the day it would take all evening to reach 19°C even on 80°C flow temp. Since we both work from home we just keep it on 19°C all day and the flow temps on the condensing boiler varies between 35°C and 50°C. Costs about £4-5 per day at the moment since the Mrs freezes if the overnight temp is any lower than 18°C.
I would say your house is very badly insulated , or your radiators are too small, tiny radiators are a pain .
Wear a jumper not t shirt and shorts. This is northern Europe not Southern California.
@@billgreen576 hoodie and jogging pants are standard attire when in the house. Thanks for the tip though 👍
Would it not be cheaper to exchange the Mrs for a variant which doesn’t require 18 C at night.
Sounds like your radiators are undersized which seems common nowdays when, with a condensing boiler, the opposite is desirable. A result of competitive tendering (imo) since large radiators obviously cost more and people don't compare rad sizes at the quotation stage. Or may be your rads are clogged with cobwebs & dust on the airside fins so greatly reducing convection (radiators heat 85% + by convection). Easy to fix with a bottle washer brush, a lamp and a mirror (not so easy with the enclosed type finned rads that have a top casing, i assume that this is removeable !!)
The Mrs won't need an 18 deg C bedroom if she had a modern electric under blanket (with room temp compensation, room colder, more heat into bed; they come with individual temp. controls for a double bed) and a high TOG duvet with a blanket on top of that if needed. A good dressing gown & slippers are useful too.
People forget the old British Gas `Guaranteed Warmth' advertisements (late 60s ??) .... the guaranteed temperatures were ..... Bedrooms 60 deg F (15.56 C); Hall, Kitchen, Bathroom 65 deg F (18.33 C); Living rooms 70 deg F (21.11 C).
N.B. I live in an 1890s end terrace, my bedroom routinely falls to 14 deg C at night and I'm quite warm enough in bed with only boxers on. I've certainly never left the heating on all night. Today I've had my heating on for 2 hours in the morning (the living room stat never attained it's 18.5 deg C setpoint but nearly did) and nothing since, the living room temperature has decayed to 16 deg C and I don't feel cold - I have 4 T shirts, one Jumper and two pairs of `Long Johns' on. A bit eccentric? Yes i guess, I consider it a challenge to use as little gas as possible. Having a shared warm wall helps of course. It depends on one's mood as well to some extent how much heat you need in the house, and on exercise - coming back from a long walk one feels warm for quite a time in a cool house.
I've been testing an a2a heat pump for a couple of days recently which proves to be quite efficient - one 4,2 kW Toshiba Haori unit heats up a 120m2 moderately insulated house (located in Poland BTW ;-) is using approx. 8-10 kWh/24h. The target temp is set to 22C, but most of the time it runs in Eco mode, so in the living room the temp is at 20-21C and upstairs in bedrooms it reaches 18-19C. Outside temp swings from -7C in the night to +5 during the day. The input power drops as low as 260W, most of the time it's around 500W, but we may boost it to around 2kW in Power mode. The installation guys adviced to keep it on at all times, because it's better for the compressor, especially at minus temperatures.
Mostly I use 2 pairs of socks a hot water bottle and a wool blanket its virtually free and you kind of get used to it. My rented home has a energy rating of E so little point in putting on heating unless its propper bitter as it just goes through the roof and walls. what with gas the price it is. Mind you when i was a kid our house was just as cold and parents too tight to put heating on very often. we did get one of those big portable Calor Gas fires in the living room though.
Who else has been so cold they used an opened oven on full blast to warm the room up?
What a first class explanation and diaganosis....very well done
According to government guidelines do star jumps leave the oven opened after cooking and drink warm drinks 🙄
True though. The oven thing is definitely sound advice.
Star jumps are the best. Warms you up and good cardio vascular exercise. They should be compulsory- 20 star jumps per hour.
You're right.
Only switch the heating on when you need it.
I've tested this argument myself.
My experience of 30 years in a Victorian solid-walled stone house is that heating continuously is cheaper. I calculate the thermal time constant of my walls at about 40 hours (borne out by observation), so switching off the heating overnight makes minimal saving in the heat lost, no more than 5%. But in the morning, with the heating on, the walls are colder so there are more convection currents and the room feels colder (wind chill), and I find that to make the room feel equally warm throughout the day I need to set the thermostat at least 1°C higher, which increases the losses by something like 10%. I do accept that my house is an extreme example and that for most people in UK the advice here works.
I live in a block of flats,I have GCH & put on my heating on a low setting on October & leave it on until March,my flat was built in 1978,the Sound proofing & insultation isnt great,my flat stays at about 16-18c & it suits me fine & works about 75p - £1 per day.....I cant bare a home that is really hot & stuffy....
Exactly the same for me. If heating on timed periods I have to set to 21c to feel warm because the fabric is cold. If I leave at 19c the house is much more comfortable and the boiler runs on opentherm so rads are about 33c.
I thought this so I tested it over the winter and spring this year and having the heating on constantly with the thermstat set to room temperature to keep it comfortable was a terrible idea. I have now switched over to the timer which runs 4.30 am to 5.30am and then 6.30 pm - 7.30 pm and this keeps the house comfortable and cost far less.
In spring we are only running for an hour in the morning.
Turning the heating off completely is a bad idea because all the pipes start radiating very cold air and your house just becomes one massive fridge and be way too cold even on a sunny warm day. So yea, big advice is KEEP ALL DOORS IN THE HOUSE SHUT at all times and RUN heating once a day for a short period. In winter you can increase the timing of the 2 heating periods. You will defo save alot on your bills whilst keeping your house at comfortable levels.
About 12 years ago we bought a house that an old engineer guy had built a series of walls that acted as baffles and used a bio fuel central heating system which he left running very low for the winter months and he swore by the thermic effects . It was really interesting and a real out of the box style approach. Turned out that he was talking bollocks. Ripped it all out. He was a fucking idiot. Got underfloor heating now.
Each house is different. Generally speaking having a boiler on low 24/7 means when you do lose heat, it will take ages to get back to temperature. And likely you won’t ever feel ‘proper warm.’ Better just to use your timers effectively for when you want that heat. Your thermostat when it gets to temperature will switch off your boiler anyhow, it doesn’t just keep chugging away constantly costing you money. Unless of course you don’t have one! Ideally you’d think any medium sized dwelling plus would have multiple zonal valves (at least two thermostats) to be more efficient. Many houses can be warm downstairs but cold upstairs, and of course people jack up the thermostat costing them more money.
yeah i tend to turn it off or very low when i go out too
i just like to have the option of giving me that kick of heat when you turn it up again.
I think its time to do another video on heat pumps.
Thank you Roger, probably the most useful information I'll ever get watching the fluff I do on YT. My new build 15 yr ago 2 bed timber frame shoe box maisonette that iv noticed getting colder quicker an longer to heat n stay warm last 3 yrs r so. Going t 10 Yr 3 bed timber and brick house. Interesting and scary to see the difference in gas bill. I'll take your advice an just heat when I need.
We use smart trvs and a central thermostat, this allows us to set the temperature of each individual room depending on the time of day, bedrooms warmed in the morning but lower during the day for example. This allows us to keep the heating on 24/7 but the boiler only adds in heat when needed and the temperature in the house can be kept lower as the house doesn't have cold spots. Definitely reduced our heating bills and don't have the issue of cold bedrooms if we light a fire in the living room where the main thermostat was
Which thermostat and trvs do you use ?
@@christophercrowley7574 we use the Tado thermostat
After listening to several experts on yt I was about to say sod it because I was non the wiser. But you sir broke it down in nice easy language and now I know what to do. One question: should we turn down the temperature on the boiler and water tank?
I'm a plumber, I retrofitted an air source heat pump into my house 3 years ago and I've monitored it closely. It's definitely not cheaper to it 27/7. The COP at night is a killer, and heating the house when everyone is in bed makes no sense....in my opinion anyway. I run the system on weather compensation from 1pm until 11pm everyday, I'd guess its about 30% cheaper to run vs 24/7. My house is not A rated, perhaps a C or B.
I have an air source heat pump and I was advised by the heating engineer to leave it at a constant temperature, simply because the pump, unlike a gas boiler, takes ages to get up to temperature. I have half ignored him and the temperature is reduced overnight to 16 degrees. In the morning it has to get up to 19 and when it starts to go dark in the evening up to 21. However his point was that it takes more electricity to increase temperature by a few degrees than it does to keep it constant. I haven't noticed much difference between the 2 methods in terms of KW hours.. I did have it previously at 16 during the day and then up to 21 at tea time. But it took at least a couple of hours to do that because the radiators never get more than lukewarm.
@@nigelduckworth406 I should also clarify that I'm running my system primarily on radiators, we have a 35sq mtr extension with ufh. Sounds like you might have underfloor heating yourself?
i'm getting a new house, properly isolated, with a heat pump that goes down 136 meters in the ground
sounds pretty promising to me in terms of passive capabilities,
also i'll be getting like 8 big old solar panels on the roof.
or well, if i remember correctly it's 47 heatpumps for 120ish houses orso.
pretty stoked for it, since i lived in a 96-year old run-down house that costs a fortune in the winter to even keep at 16 degrees celcisu lol
Geothermal closed loop heatpump is the best and only choice in a new build. 24/7 21 degrees. COP 5+ with source regen in the summer from passive cooling. I know it, because i have it.
Why do you need a "heat pump" , to have your heating on all day?
My elderly mother has always preferred the radiators to be warm at least.
The problem with a thermostat is that when the desired temperature is reached, the boiler switches off and your radiators go cold.
So, the answer to that problem, if you have someone like my mum, is to over ride the thermostat and turn the boiler radiator temperature down .
All you do is turn your thermostat setting to say 30 degrees c, then by setting the boiler radiator temperature dial to a lower temperature, the radiators will stay warm and you actually do feel warmer because the radiators haven't gone cold - they are still radiating heat, but at a lower temperature. It will never reach 30 degrees c if you turn your boiler radiator temperature down, so the thermostat never kicks in
Obviously, if you set too low, the radiators might not be hot enough to reach the desired temperature, or too high and you get too warm.
The only issue though, with this set-up is that the boiler will be running and that means more electricity used .
Just by trial and error you'll find the right setting.
Many people forget that a gas boiler also uses electricity - the motor is probably using something like 140 watts per hour, which equates to about 55 pence a day or £16.50 per month at 35pence a kWh. (UK price, December 2022).
The heat loss of a house increases with higher temperatures. Therefore, if the heating is off, as the temperature drops so does the amount of energy lost drop too..
Need to do one on gas/oil vs heatpump in a high efficiency house. Total costs and burning FFs to make electricity.
Thank you for giving me the answer on like 30 seconds
Turning heating off goes back to, starting all over again heating firing up the boiler a cold home
in this badly isolated house of mine i tend to turn up the heating in the morning to get rid of the dew moisture
get a good initial stoking going to stoke the air dry.
opening a window in the afternoon to freshen up the air inside and get rid of built-up moisture, then closing it before turning up the dial seems to help too, dryer air does heat more efficiently.
getting a new proper isolated house with a heat pump at 136 meters deep in 2 months though, pretty stoked for that
How satisfied are you with your heat pump now?
Well summed up and very logical
The price of Gas and Electricity is so expensive, its actually my biggest monthly expenditure. I'm Thinking of getting myself a skipping rope and an ex army trench coat, and turn the heating off completely!
Ps. I hear energy prices are going up again in April?
Yes there is going to be another big rise. I don't think that Boris has any real problems right now compared to the shit that will hit the fan when people start getting cut off. I can see the headlines now.
So I’m leaving it on full time. And controlling the temperature to as low as possible and turning it up when needed. Mould happens when a medium house with small ventilation keeps going through the dew point. 14 degrees Not constantly works as a minimum safe temperature.
The most economical thing you can do is fit thermostatic radiator valves. Unfortunately the UK Govt puts 20% vat on such energy saving items.
All uk gas and electric consumers are going to get well and truly shafted by the utility companies come April 2022 , I hope yor ready for the massive bill increases.
Good clip ✌️ i think modern inteligent thermostats with tailored schedule can do something between not heating and heating all the time.
This Winter I have left our heating on 24/7, vs. last Winter we ran it twice a day, once from 5:30am to 9:00am and then from 4:00pm to 12:00pm. Most of our heating is via a heat pump, unless the outdoor temp falls below 3c, then a gas boiler takes over. I have measured the energy consumption exactly via input and output meters, so this is fact, not guesswork. What do you think? We have used less energy this Winter than we did last Winter across the same date range and with similar outdoor temperatures. Part of the reason for this is that our heat pump's operating efficiency has gone up by over 25%, because it never has to work really hard to get the house back to temperature. Additionally, the house has been more comfortable. So, if you're using a heat pump, I would suggest you maximise its efficiency by leaving it on all of the time. BTW, we have an old Victorian house with stone walls, not a super-insulated modern building. The heat pump is providing our heating 75%+ of the time, it DOES NOT take several days for the heat pump to get the house temperature, but it does take several hours and during this time it would be working hard if we kept switching it off.
i agree with your experiance and the theory totally ,i myself will be moving soon and plan on using ground source heating and backing that up with solar to run the heatpump , (my question at that stage will be 'what this cost to heat people are talking about ' )
Good advice. It's good that we're on the same page.
I live in a 60s 3 bed detached bungalow, my wife and I are the only 2 residents plus 4 cats. We leave ours on 19/20 degrees 24/7 flicking on and off. Both our gas and electricity combined are £70 per month, good going I'd say. So I think keeping it ticking over is cheaper. To be fair we use more electricity than gas too. I do think it could be down to having cast iron radiators, the boiler doesn't have to work as hard once up to temp.
That's good going. You mustn't be profligate users.
My flat was built in the 40s so it’s all brick takes days to thaw out. If I don’t keep heating ticking over
Storage heaters work more cheaply when you turn the dial up a bit more so that when they start the heating process again the heat is still there from before without having to heat again from cold saving money
Thanks
Thank you Paula, that will go to the Lucy Rayner Foundation
I leave mine on 30 hours per day. It works out so much cheaper than having it on for 12 hours. BTW I have a bridge for sale if anybody is interested.
the voice of commonsense has spoken, good work roger !!
I leave my thermostat at 17. If I feel cold I light the fire but usually I’m now more used to the cold when I go out. Of course, if I had a bird this wouldn’t be possible.
my plutonium pellets keep my feet nice and toasty warm :)
Don't (always) agree with Roger but do on this. We've just renovated a very old house and have spent a lot of money on insulation. open plan ground floor with 2 woodburners at each end. One will be enough for most UK winter scenarios. Upstairs - we've insulated everything, including internal walls so that heat loss from unheated rooms doesn't affect the rest of the house. The kitchen is in a large extension and this is also insulated from the main house. During the day, with a woodburner on tick over, there is no need for my wife to heat the house by any other means. She's in the kitchen for most of the time by her own choice. That's the only room that gets heated, all the other rads are off and on bluetooth TRV's. Add clothing, turn heating off = save money. We're all going to have to do this in the future.
I am glad you don't agree with me on everything. I would hate that. I hardly agree with anybody on everything except of course my wife.
Roger, we are about to have an ASHP installed, what’s the answer to the question regarding leaving it running all the time? You said the installer will tell you you MUST NOT switch it off, it that factually correct? Also…we’ve been quoted £12800 for the install, does that sound like a reasonable quote? Thanks in advance. Keep up the great work, you’ve taught me such a lot already. 👍🙏
Hi Paula
They have to run 24/7 but the controller will switch them on and off, it depends on the heat losses from your house but for a few days they run all the time and then settle down. They will run at night and defrost for a long time in cold weather.
Love these videos !
When it's 0 C or below I leave my simple Thermostst system on 24/7. System would normally turn off at 10:30pm but when I go to bed I override that to bring it back on and turn hall Thermostst down a degree or so. The hall is 16ft long and that and the stairs and landing would take a long time to get back the temperature attained during the day.
Seems pointless to let Hall and all the rooms lose their heat onight such that the boiler has to work for a few hours every morning from 6am getting temperatures back up again.
Of course it must cost more but we're both in our 80s and feel the cold AND we can afford the costs.
I don’t agree. Yes, heat loss is bigger when keeping your heating on (+6%?). But if your heat production is 10% cheaper because you operate at lower watertemp, then it is cheaper to leave the heating on. This is very realistic with a heatpump.
Excellent, all your videos are outstanding, I love it
One thing for sure if everyone ran their heating systems at the most optimum and efficient settings their would be less electric and gas demand, I bet that would drive down prices.
The gov make money from your energy Bills by green levies and VAT, of course they want you to use more and run your boiler at 80c flow temp and then it on and off in between as it's proven it uses more money on and off at high flow temp than running low and slow. Opentherm, weather comp, all the technologies that have been round a while but no one is bothered to look into or learn because they claim it's gimmicky.
Only trouble is local councils dont give tennants 'underfloor heating' ok for some eh?..
I have a question that I have not seen discussed. Is heat recovery ventilation system worth installing. I am old.. Remember TV series where they built "house of the future" from barn convertion. The most efficient money saver at end project was the futuristic air heat recovery. Be good if you discussed it
Another great video Roger - Thanks. Luckily me and Mrs don't care for too much heat. We make our own! (Don't get too excited - she gets night sweats!) Ha Ha!
I've done the maths. It is CHEAPER to leave the heating ON.
Keep switching the heating on from cold is a waste.
It takes at least a couple of hours to get up to temperature each time .... THAT is wasted energy.
I'm well in pocket leaving the heat on for three months.
You are flying in the face of science and you can't possibly make the 2 hour claim because it depends on things you don't know. It is cheaper to switch it off.....always
How do I work out the Kwh of my boiler, it's a 30kw boiler but obviously flow temp setting will have an effect on usage, I read they say a 30kw boiler uses 30kwh but is that set at max temp for example?
Very informative and perfectly logical. However, I have a geothermal heat pump system which never gets covered in these discussions. Since the heat source for this type of heat pump is the earth below the frost line, the temperature never varies. In my area that temperature is 58 deg. F or 14.5 deg. C, and the heat pump efficiency doesn't vary with the outside temperature. I have disabled the heat system resistance backup to make sure that when I turn the temperature up in the Winter, I'm not use expensive resistance heat. My observation is that my geothermal heating system brings the house temperature up rather quickly when the thermostat is turned up. So, my question is which is better for this type of system, programmed or constant temperatures. Are there any studies to provide a factual basis for this decision?
Constant, if only for the for avoidance of peak/trough demands drawn from your primary power source; maybe not if your primary source is solar.
Night set back, so drop the temp only by a couple of degrees when you are in bed or the house is not occupied.
This isn’t strictly true. Although it’s obviously true that not using heating will save you money like not driving a car and saving fuel. What you should be getting at is having your heating on 24/7 on an on/off thermostat with an oversized boiler. 90% are oversized btw Will cost you more than necessary. Having your heating on with a correctly sized boiler or at least range rated down with intelligent controls such as weather compensation. It’s more efficient for your boiler to be running for longer which also increases comfort levels. Your gas bills will be right down compared to on off controls and comfort levels massively increased and also the benefit to your home from keeping away damp and mould from not having your heating on at all or intermittently on using large amounts of gas to raise the temperature quickly.
My dad recently bought a flat with economy 7 storage heaters. There is no gas and it's not practical to install a heat pump.
Should he stick with the storage heaters or would he be better off ditching them, changing to a standard meter and getting resistive heaters (no storage)?
I should mention, the storage heaters are 1988 vintage and the meter uses a radio teleswitch (RTS). The RTS is supposed to stop working next year due to the radio broadcast equipment for the switching signal becoming defunct.
I advice not havin the off temperature below 16 . The theory is it never lets the house temperature plummet and it takes less energy to warm from 16 degrees to your demand temperature than from somthing sun 16 to your demand temperature
24 inch thick sandstone walls 16 deg thermo setting its a new game lol
If it's impossible to figure out the heat and temperature inside a house, how could anyone model the climate of the whole earth.
What about a modern unvented direct cylinder with 2x immersions ???
No point leaving my heating on all day, even in a solid wall 1908 mid terrace with side jennel. The front of my house (north facing) leeches heat like there’s no tomorrow. Worst thing is we’ve got this ar-tex wall pattern thing which looks lovely - but is really cold to touch in winter time, and the wife doesn’t wanna get rid of it (the wallpaper on the upper half of the room is not cold to touch)
Grrr
Get external insulation? It's what I'm going to do on my 1930s semi. Anything for warm walls!
@@james.telfer this I would consider if the government was to offer subsidies as the average cost to add external insulation is £7,000 for a mid-terrace.
Conclude as you wish but as I have an autistic bairn who goes out the back door a lot and if he gets cold overnight he’d get upset and be up all night from then. So we have no choice ours is on 24/7 we pay less than average for type of house (semi detached, 3 bed, 2floor, 2 adults 2kids) and only have double glaze and loft insulation.
Get yourself a sleeping bag. You will need one when energy becomes so expensive thanks to stupid green policies that do more harm than good.
Have you seen the film "Concrete Plans" ALMOST been there!!!!
Obviously your target is England. In the U. S. If you have a heat pump it is always cheaper to leave your heat on all winter. After listening to your entire rambling I have come to the conclusion that you do not understand heat pumps. Or else that are different over there. Over here our heat pumps come as a two stage heating system. The first stage being the heat pump and the second stage known as auxiliary heat is a heat strip installed in the air handler. These can be 20kw. So if you turn your heat off and arrive home and need to raise the temperature because it was turned off it goes like this- you are trying to warm the home 20 degrees so for the first 17 degrees you are using the aux heat which spins the meter but heats quickly. This may take the system 2 hours. Then once you are within 3 degrees of target temp, the auxiliary heat drops out and your heat pump will run alone. As long as the ambient dew point is above freezing we can extract heat and this stage may take 8 hours to get the last three degrees to achieve target temp but is much much cheaper than the first two hours using 20kw strips. As long as the system is within 3 degrees of the set point the auxiliary heat strips will stay off. This is why you do not turn the heat off in winter. I am a licensed HVAC contractor with 30 years experience deep in the heart of it. Adios Limey.
Rate of energy loss is proportional to temperature difference. Keeping a house hotter all the time will waste more energy. Heating when needed will always be cheaper. This is very basic physics and covered in 'Newton's law of cooling'.
Yes but running a lower temperature more even heat means the flow rate of heat loss is slower.
Why are boilers still being installed and designed for 80C flow temps? This is crazy.
Agree for heating, I can't get ours low enough, I think the problem is when the boiler is used for hot water as well and old boilers only have basic return stats, cheers.
Just looked at your comment again and yes totally agree for still being installed.
As I understand it, a condensing boiler needs a return temperature of around 50deg to be efficient?
@@aionalethia8140 no, it will only start to condense at 55 return, it should be operating at around 30C return to be continually condensing. Maximum efficiency (around 97%) is seen at a unrealistic 15C.
It is efficient even at 70C but the lower the temperature the more efficient it becomes. The most economy is when it is off.
The real question is does lowering and raising the heat cost more than leaving it at a constant temperature. (Not always on, just constant)
It's the same question. Any time the house is hot, it's losing heat faster.
Is there any advantage to heating my flat from the inside out or visa versa?
I hazzard a bet solid fuel is cheaper to space heat this winter, fire your stoves up!!
i have a couple year old boiler a system boiler i belive a tank but no tank in loft. its set at 70c is it worth turning it down im caning gas this year. last year i was doing about £50 a monthin gas with house set to 22c. im now doing £150+ set at £20. my house is reasonable well insulated and has epc rating of b. always someone in house during day so i cant really turn it off but including my electric im doing nearly a weeks wages. any advice would be grateful
I can imagine a time in future all those nice old stone/brick buildings, being insulated/rendered to comply with some eco regulations as it will be so expensive to heat with electric. Then there will be no point in buying old properties as they will look the same as newer buildings.
Just to cheer you up… I have a very old stone house.. you don’t need to insulate the walls as they are naturally heat conserving. I’ve got a powerful heat pump which keeps it at 21° and it is as eco friendly as they get. The newer extension bit is always colder but I don’t mind - the bills are low. I was given a grant by the government to pay for it with double glazing. They didn’t want to insulate the walls but sealed the open fireplaces with insulated ply board and drought proofed it all. I can’t believe how warm it is and old stone houses are better for heating than new. Who’d have thought it 🤷🏻♀️
Has anyone got the retrofit or low pro underfloor heating? I am thinking of having it fitted in a 1980s house which have solid ground floors and timber upper floors, I do not think the walls are that well insulated as they are always cold, the loft has 250mm rockwool in it. Would loved to hear your thoughts Roger.
Asleep at night, out at work
, why on earth heat then??
The 'seller' wasn't selling anything. He was council tax banding inspector. 😂
Sorry bad maths lol
24/7 costs 30% more
Oh my bills were £90 a month , now my rate gone up to 4.2 k temp I bet I expect it 6p in April increase .
Good lord it be £230 a month then
Thermal wear gonna be big lol
Great video
Straw bails are great for insulation. As long as the big bad wolf doesn’t come prowling. 😂😂
If a heatpump outputs at 50 degrees, then it's going to heat at the same rate as a gas boiler outputting at 50, right?
Yes but the difference is that you can turn a boiler up to boost the heat in cold weather
@@SkillBuilder so as with your other videos, most of what you say is correct, but certainly not all the time and not during the same conditions. I feel you're sowing confusion here rather than clarity.
Pls can you advise me what to do my house is very very cold
And heating it takes a long time and then goes cold again.both neighbours houses are 17 degrees without heating mine is 10-12!!!
Do I need to heat it day and night for a few days then it will be ok??
Hi Sam
We would need to know more about your house. If you can send photographs inside and out we might spot some things you can do. www.skill-builder.uk/send
@@SkillBuilder it’s 1930s semi it’s our first winter here and god knows why is it soo cold the house
@@SkillBuilder do you think I need to leave heating on for a full day to get the whole building warm? Been putting on a few hours in morning and a few hours at night as sky high prices atm.feeling really down and depressed as house is 10-12 degrees when heating off and nobody has an answer😞
Most plumbers love Thermostatic Radiator Valves. It's a good earner going around changing them.
I'd never have one in my house.
It is cheaper if you leave your heating on because you stop damp and condensation which costs money to fix .
I have not had my rads on this year just got the wood burner going constantly with a 12inch fan blowing it around the house. My gas bill was only £17 last month ( cooking)
Yeah whatever. Even during summer when our heating isnt on and cooking via gas hob and electric oven, our gas bill is more than 17 quid.
That's what it is....
Out of interest, how many logs do you get through and what does it work out at (cost of wood per month) Cheers
@@Oli_Hudson I get the wood for free from my local truss company. 4 apple boxes a year I get from them.
@@alexmoules8630 so you’re saying you are not using logs but off cuts from a company that makes trusses?