The men that went to the Pelicot house then changed their mind NEVER reported it. They could have called and left an anonymous tip. Protecting the "bro code" was more important to them.
Like all sexual crimes, this situation isn't an aberration. This is happening all over the place. The aberration here is that we're hearing about it BUT as Gisele said "the shame is THEIRS, not mine"
Gisele herself is AMAZING for breaking the silence around this very fucked up abuse. I followed the case from beginning to end, and it was one hell of a ride.
What's so terrifying about her case is that she is, on the surface, the absolute perfect victim. She was a fine, upstanding, middle class, white woman woman, the kind who did everything in life she was told to do, and that all women are constantly being told we need to be like, in order to be protected from harm. And a monster found her anyway! Any woman who believes she is safe just because she fits a particular profile is lying to herself. Your innocence will not save you from the monsters who live among us. It might in fact, attract one to you.
Spot on. And then what most of the victims learn is that nothing stops a predator, not fawning, not fighting, not threatening, giving in, pleading, nothing.
Honestly, a lot of factors don't matter on who can be a victim of DV. You can be a celebrity and a victim of it. You can have several PhD degrees and be a victim. It's the other minority factors that raise the likelihood of it happening to you, because the perp thinks they can get away with it. Also, alcohol does not put ideas in abuser's heads. It just lessens their inhibitions. If alcohol is making them violent to you, they had already thought about it, but the potential consequences were the only thing holding them back. I'm also a victim. PTSD over it is gnarly af these days, with all these awful dudes around.
It was reported that 70,000 men were in a Telegram group that had the same goal as Gisele’s husband’s group. The thought that there are 70,000 OTHER men worldwide who are actively trying to convince themselves this is “okay behavior” is mind boggling. Had he not been arrested, this deplorable behavior would have easily continued until the day she died.
He could have also just been charged with the up skirting , but whoever interviewed him requested they check his hard drive thankfully. So many men record themselves SA'ing women.... they act with impunity, like it's not even a serious crime to them.
@@heidithesausage its not a serious crime to SOCIETY, that's the problem. 99% of rape complaints in France are summarily dismissed by their police. It's a crime so common, it's banal. And if we want that to change, reporting on it and policing of it needs to change. Everywhere.
@@MadCatLady28totally. The societal attitude towards heinous crime has become laissez fair because we've been exposed to it and we've become greatly desentitised. Also, outlandish and abusive behaviours have become a common place, especially on social media where people are openly abusing other people verbally, emotionally, physically, psychologically, financially, and it's for "entertainment" purposes, when I never came across a more criminally charged claim because it effectively legitimised abuse as just entertainment!
I worked at a women’s crisis center for many years and can assure you that all women deal with, at minimum, misogyny on a daily basis, and, at worst, severe abuse which often leads to death. Thank you for this. ❤
It's not even the fact that it's a percentage (cuz it's probably less than a percent) it's the fact that even if it was just one man doing anything like this, it would be one too many. People have to recognize that there is a problem. Instead of cowering behind the fact that they aren't the ones causing it, they should try and work towards a solution. Not all men are bad, Not all men are good either. A man cannot be good if he isn't trying to make things better.
Exactly, the number of men who are like that is way too high for women to take the risk. This is why there's the "male loneliness epidemic" and women are choosing "the bear"/"single life". Better safe than sorry!
At this point, I'm so numb... after what felt like a decade within the span of... 4 years? We've seen Roe v Wade fall, seen the women in Afghanistan being left at the hands of their tormentors and more strict rules being enforced on them, we've seen the Pelicot case, seen a rapist become president of America (again)... In a time when women are supposedly "free" and have more equality than ever before. It's all so soul-crushing. It feels like we are screaming until we are blue, and ignored as if we don't even exist. My anger has run out... I just feel apathetic and empty.
Those are very natural emotions and states in front of all the horrors you've seen. We need to remember that we can get traumatised by proxy, just witnessing another or others ' abuse! Remember self care is also deciding when too much is enough and filling up our inner well with lovely stuff. x
It's time for men to speak up and actually protect like they say they will. Protection doesn't just mean protecting your woman, but standing up for all women. Women have NEVER, EVER deserved abuse.
Agreed. And there is also a difference between protecting your wives, daughters, partners, and mothers because they are more socially vulnerable human beings, versus protecting them from a misguided view of property rights (purity culture, honor killings). The two come from very different places and women need to be protected for their own sake, not for the sense of honor of their menfolk.
If you choose to remain silent while witnessing a crime, you are complicit in that crime. People keep forgetting that 90% of grapes against women are perpetrated by people they knew, with 47% being an ex/current partner (23%) or family member (24%). Women live in constant danger, even amongst people we are supposed to trust, and men wonder why we would rather choose the bear. The bear is predictable, men aren't
@@Hiforest I watched a new channel called PinkPillRX and it's last telling her husband all these stats about SA. She points out that on average, a bear attack lasts about six minutes. The average SA lasts 4 and a half hours. Yeah, there is a reason to choose the bear
In her own home 🥺 she’s a hero to all survivors, at least a bear in the woods won’t film us, drug us, grape us & lie to us for a decade & then expect forgiveness But hey we’re just being too picky
I am awed by Giselle’s bravery. I don’t know if I could be so public about this, but I and other women are grateful to her for bringing this out. The German authorities just shut down an online chat group of 70,000 men. They communicated in English but were from multiple countries. They were trading tips on how to SA females in their households ( daughters wives, sisters, mothers). It was similar to Giselle. I am shocked but should not be at this point.
It does remind me of the time, many years back, when I was sharing about these groups of pua and mgtow men and people thought I was crazy and attention seeking, yet I didn't share all that I've observed. It was and is really bad. It's really about time that the justice system steps in seriously.
@@msthang5366 PUA = Pickup Artists MGTOW = Men Going Their Own Way The irony in both of those titles for calling it "artistry" and "going their own way" has never stopped infuriating me even after all these years since I first learnt about them.
They wouldn't have taken as many men to court, that's for sure (i don't think the UK would have either - they'd have selected a few of the easier to prove cases and let dozens of men off with rape).
@@Hiforest Seems like lots of them were easy to prove when the ringleader husband takes videos and carefully labels all the videos with the rapist's name.
I wanted to say to the creator, I have noted that there has been a lot of brilliant men allies speaking frankly from your neck of the woods, Australia and New Zealand. I just wanted to say from a sister from Canada I have noticed and it makes me very hopeful indeed. Thanks.
“If through all that you still don’t understand why women are choosing the bear…” Jesus, thank you for saying this. This is the refrain I keep repeating to every bloke I purposely discuss this case with. There was another similar situation in South Korea, where a group of like 5-6 men who met on an online forum organised a “swap”; they would give their wives sleeping pills, then invite the other male group members over to grape the women while drugged unconscious. Went on for years. So I mean, the Pelicot case, for all its horror…it isn’t even NOVEL. Two countries have had cases like this just in the last couple of years, and those are just the big ones I’m aware of. Like, honestly, do any of y’all still have any questions about this? Because bears will kill you (sometimes)... but men can do damage that for many women results in a fate much more painful than death.
Mme Pelicot wanted people to understand it can be “ANY MAN” even your husband of 50 years. It is not only monsters that harm women. I believe we should change All men to Any man, it is a better representation of reality. Most SA are committed by someone the victim knows, it is rarely a stranger.
It absolutely IS "monsters that harm women"! Just because they can hide their true monstrousness for years, that doesn't mean they weren't always monsters, else they wouldn't have gone through with their sick fantasies!
all 51 men were from a 30 mile radius. 30 miles. It wasn't like he was flying these guys in. It might not be all men, but we looking at all men now arn't we? And the 51 men range from 26 to 74. thats 3 generations. Again it might not be all men but it's all men.
Small community and almost all the men had to know this was going on, even if they didn’t participate. None of the ones watching online tipped off the cops either. A third of men will admit that they would rape someone if they thought they’d get away with it, and clearly there’s another big group that won’t admit it but do it. And the rest ignore these crimes. Sorry, not sorry. The best we can say about almost all the not raping men is that they’re cowards.
And those were just the ones who the police was able to identify. The report said it was 70 (if I remember corretcly) men who have abused her (not counting her husband). Plus, that's just in her case. How many other women suffered and are still suffering from the same thing, organised in other chat rooms like these?
The good men are already on our side, it's the "nice" ones that need convincing to change their views and realize that the saying, "if you aren't part of the solution then you're part of the problem." exists for a reason. Those are the ones that will think that they deserve good boy points for not participating in the acts and not understand that ignoring or enabling that behavior in others sends them crashing back into the negatives.
I agree with this 100% but also we shouldn’t have to ask good men to be on our side.. they’re not very good if they need to be begged and told to care about women
@@CreativeCrumbles Not necessarily so-they may not have the skills. for instance, once upon a time I was standing up for ideals (white woman here)in a group where I should have belonged and got shot down. Later i talked to a young white guy who was in the group about it. He agreed with me but didn't like the optics of white dude taking over the convo so he didn't speak up.. So, perhaps just some 'how to' ideas are needed. I certainly could use better social graces in difficult circumstances.
Well said. Giselle is beyond courageous, strong, and powerful! She is precious and deserves love for being who she is. I was a victim of date rape back when I was 17. I am in awe of her strength and conviction ❤
Speaking out about it can be a very delicate matter, especially for victims, but for those supporting them, as well. Victims ' ordeal doesn't end with the abusive act itself. It carries on in the aftermath in forms like intimidation, threats, ganging up, forcefully holding them hostages, stalking, tracking, dragging them back, further physical, and emotional, many a time financial exploitation and abuse. It's not always possible to just leave, or just talk about it, unfortunately.
@@HeathHuckers yes, and then said bad bois are going to prison, with padded walls, or not. Statistically speaking, a lot of criminals get away with what they did because the victims are traumatised and unable or unwilling to go to the police and file a report. Together with the overall cultural and economic climate, and the obvious struggle of the justice system, we can safely say that we're living in the wild wild West, still, crime does get addressed when it's detected. So, for everybody out here - it's a bit of a myth that perpetrators can do as they please, nope, they'll be caught, and they'll be given a sentence. That's what they need to be acutely aware of. It's always a matter of time.
Not entirely sure how much you know of the Pelicot case, but the couple lived in a small town. Many of the men were on a encrypted Internet site (it no longer exists) where they would talk about 🍇 and/or subjugation. It was this site that the husband placed adds for men to 🍇 his wife, he was not the only one. Although many didn't take the offer up, *my* point is, why weren't they going to the police? All they did was say to themselves "not for me" instead of thinking "this is a crime" That needs to change.
Another thing is she’s the so called “perfect victim” or the “model victim”. She’s an upper middle class white woman who has a great reputation, got married to an upper middle class man, had kids, raised them and was living with her husband and (I believe she had grandchildren) and she was drugged to oblivion by a person she TRUSTED. And there are till some apologists. There are still people that say “how could she not have known?” Or “she definitely knew and got off on it”. It’s so scary how you can go on twitter and say “this case and any other (g)rape case is ONLY the fault of the attacker” and there will still be people who try to disprove that.
She’s an absolute hero for making this public. People told me that my ex’s domestic violence towards me was a private, family matter. My response was always, no it’s not; it’s a matter of public record.
And this is why I don’t trust anyone… our world needs to change, these abuses to anyone should never happen and needs to stop. I am tired of hearing “not all men” when there are thousands who think any of this behaviour is ok
Men who say "Not all men" are simply cowering behind the fact that they aren't the ones causing the problem, this is a cowards approach to a problem harming far too many. If you see someone online saying something that, call them a coward, as they can no longer Direct anything away from themselves when you are directly calling them a coward, they'll have to deal with the fact that instead of working towards a solution they chose to hide
At least 70,000 were on a website with this guy exchanging advice on how to violate their wives and mothers. Not one of them thought it was bad enough to go to the authorities.
"If we had to investigate every accusation of child [sexual] abuse we'd never get anything else done" said to me by a uniformed member of the NSWPF when I went in to report a guy casually telling me that QPS were after him for making CSA imagery (he was trying to pretend he was delulu. Umm, no. Not buying it. That is not how psychosis works. It's how grooming works, though)
'When one in ten men is shit and the other nine do nothing, they might as well not be there.' Kinda forgot where I heard that but it's what I quote in answer to the 'not all men' argument.
I appreciate you, so much, Will. Thank you for calling this out and sharing that there is way too large a percentage of men who are fine with harming women.
Gisele is an amazingly strong, brave and truly courageous Queen. A part of this story that didn't get much coverage is that she repeatedly went to her gynaecologist as something was 'wrong'. Her husband knew about these visits and I believe even drove her to a couple of the appts. Nothing was found and he kept silent 😢
He went with her to the appointments and asked manipulative questions like: 'What are you doing, with so many vaginal infections?' And: 'So tired and memory problems as well, do you have Alzheimer's?'
This case makes me so sad that I’ve tended to avoid it. I know what happened and it makes me cry every time I hear it. What chance does this world have when it’s run by people like this? I won’t go on - this has done its job for the algorithm.
Thanks Will 🙏 it's incredibly rage inducing that even after a case like this, highlighting how these perpetrators are among us, in our homes, most men are not speaking out about this behaviour. LinkedIn is full of women sharing this case and they would be lucky to have one or two men in their comments discussing it. They can't even acknowledge these violations are happening, let alone take action to reduce it 😢
Thank you for sharing this and your thoughts, Will. And good on Gisele for sharing her case with the world when she didn’t have to. In a world where some women can’t even trust their own husbands, I’m definitely happy staying single and independent.
To the guys who say to me, "not all men", I now ask, what have you done personally, in your everyday life, to show your male friends this isn't you and you don't support abuse, objectification, belittling or diminishing of women? Do you call other men out for bad behaviour? Do you laugh at their sexist jokes? Do you ever say, "Boys will be boys"? Because frankly, most men in my experience are highly complict with everyday sexism and misogyny by literally saying nothing, or even going along with it. It doesn't have to be on the scale of Gisele's husband's crimes to be harmful. And good on you Will, from you alone I would accept a "not all men" because you're definitely speaking out
Can you do a video on Dora Moono Nyambe? She was an angel on earth who saved so many girls from child marriages and threw many many men in jail, was ridiculed, threatened and harassed and for that there is speculation of why she died recently.
The part that messes me up with this is that they were married for DECADES more than 40 years. They had and raised 3 children together. I doubt the abuse only started 10 years ago. That is probably when he started recording it
Some of those men appealed, which means Gisèle will have to testify at another trial after the series of gruelling ordeals she already went through. She was already demeaned beyond belief by the perps' defense lawyers and the nightmare isn't over, far from it. She is such a force of nature.
She is truly a powerful woman! And the world and what did she did make a stand! I was sexually abused by my father; and l am with her! Power to her and all the women out there to show there strength!❤❤❤
By taking this fight in public, Gisele Pelicot has fought for all of us, and pushed the shame towards the guilty ones, away from us. She deserves our endless respect and gratitude for her bravery. I wish Gisele peace.
She is beyond brave, poised and taking this with immense grace. And he only got 20 years.... seems like he got off easy. He dehumanized her in the most disgusting way I can think of, and he gets to live. That is a shame.
There was a case in the USA of a father who hosted a sleepover for his daughter & drugged her & her friends. One of the girls texted her mom who was asleep & then texted another family family who came to pick her up. There were over 70,000 men on the Telegram group Pelicot had set up, from all over the world. On that group the men were instructed on how to “sedate” their family members, including children. I sincerely wonder if this “dad” was a part of that group or a similar one.
To the "not all men": As the Germans say, the exception only confirms the rule. The rule to us women is we have to stay alert in the presence of any man. Case closed.
“Not all men” has become a red flag to me. They are trying to hijack the conversation and make it all about them. It’s disgusting. In a case like this, to not show empathy for the victim but to engage in white masking bullshit to make yourself look good just hits so wide of the mark it’s not funny. It makes them look like perpetrators. How dare they. Fkn men.
@@KalleestoI agree that many use this to hide and excuse, yet there are good men who shouldn't be made to feel guilty, or that they have a chip on theit shoulder just because they're men, no? I think one truly needs to understand how it is to be considered dangerous and isolated just because they're by default men or women... Stereotyping and overgeneralising are two of the most common cognitive errors that make us discriminate, almost mindlessly, towards all members of a group.
Violence is always a behaviour choice made to harm. That awful ex husband made the choice to harm Gisele (and others). I had a violent ex who chose to hurt me in several different ways. They always have the choice not to harm someone, but they don't choose it. And too many men are not held accountable for the harm they do to others (including under the law).
What is Sad. If a Men have The courage to share his with with strangers, why he dont do this to his daughter? Drug his daughter was The only way to Prevent her to wake up and see what was going on in The house.
Dear men, you can't "take the word" of another man that a woman has consented to something. Unless you've heard her, in her own CONSCIOUS voice, enthusiastically agree to it, she has not consented. Wouldn't think you have to explain this, but here we are.
The absolute worst thing for me is how he gaslit her and also convinced all of the doctors she would see that all she was suffering from was stress. When in fact it was the coma level of drugging he regularly subjected her to for almost a decade that was the cause of her physical symptoms as well as her severe issues with memory loss (and not only during the times when she was put under a medically induced coma without any supervision or even a medical professional present - I'm talking about it affecting her a lot in her regular day to day life!) she was suffering from!
As a French woman I thank you for this ❤ It's good to know that Gisèle's ordeal is having a world impact. Although I'm not so hopeful about my own countrymen, especially decision-makers who haven't done or pushed anything to make women safer or better heard for years. Now with the debt our country has, it will be the perfect excuse to sweep the whole thing under the rug because it doesn’t fit their political narrative.
Thank you for being one of the few men to speak on this issue. I was SA’d by my dad as a little girl. 1 in 4 girls and 1 in 7 boys will be SA’d by the time they reach adulthood, and often times the crimes are committed by those closest to them. Just as in my case and just as in Gisele’s case.
Also, this wasn't a one-off unique case. This happened in Asia, and I believe they were using the same site. Which is finally shut down after years of trying to get it shut down. The authorities knew about it- so it's deffo not the only case. There's also the US women's prison that was openly raping and abusing prisoners, involving even the warden. They would enact revenge if the women tried to tell someone or report something a guard did- which is how they eventually found out the warden was a part of it.
Don't kid yourself it's only in France, it's worldwide. There is no "safe" country or society on this earth. The 70k members of that single website were from all around the world, and it's far from the only website, forum, discord etc.
Yes, Will, perhaps even more disturbing than the awful details of the case is the wide-ranging COMPLICITY of how many? Thousands? Millions? 🤮 Thanks for all you do.
and like...she was having all of these mental and health problems over the course of those 10 years and he was by her side like a devoted husband...meanwhile he was the source of her pain...
She is SO STRONG! I hope her case gives others the strength to let others find their own strength and that it's okay to stand up for themselves. It IS their shame!
Best video of yours that I've seen yet. Thank you for pointing out the obvious. May all men choose to care about all women and all men. And may all women do the same.
I'm so sorry for her and all other woman who have suffered❤. Sadly the stories are numerous and never ending. I understand the bear statement better than anyone. Thank you for sharing and speaking up🙏 I'm 36 and I've never felt safe because I was neglected by my parents and SA'd from age 4 until court when I was 14. Sad thing is, I told my mom what was happening when I was 5. I wish the world was a better place. I wish I was never born into the world the way it is. From birth to now, nothing has given me a reason to want to be born, the opposite in fact. I'm just going through the motions till the Lord takes me.
Gisele is a heroine. The scope of these kind of crimes is horrifying. What the hell is wrong with men? Even those who chose not to participate in the end, didn’t report it. Will’s reaction, by the way, is exactly why we refer to it as righteous anger.
What an amazingly strong woman. I hope she is getting along peacefully now and lives her life wholly now, experiencing nothing but love and kindness. Her quota for b/s has been more than filled and she deserves all the goodness to balance out these horrific acts done to her. And thank you, Will for bringing in another man who recognizes the problem and speaks out. It gives me some comfort to know you aren't a unicorn and I'd love to see more of your brothers in kindness and respect. Keep up the amazing work. I see how it helps so many women in your comments. And i know it has helped me. 🌻
And when they say that women abuse too. Find me a case on this scale where the perpetrators are female and people try to explain it away as if it's ok. *this is not to minimise the experiences of people who've been abused by women but to comment on the fact that abusing women is so normalised that this could ever even happen.
Precisely. Yes, women can be horrible perpetrators and these cases are often not taken as seriously as they should be, but these instances are nowhere near as common, as extreme or happen on as large of a scale as the absurd amount of male on female sexual violence, it's not even close. This fact of the matter is extremely hard to cope with for both men and women alike. No reasonable human being enjoys being a part of a perpetual perpetrator or a perpetual victim faction that they never chose to be a part of.
"The shame is theirs" I love this woman. What a badass in the face of something so disgusting.
She's my person of the year
Why haven't the men's pics been shown?
@@fictionaddiction4706 wym?
@@fictionaddiction4706 it just takes time. I'm sure they will be available at some point on the internet.
@@fictionaddiction4706right? She waived her right, they shouldn’t have that right considering what they’ve done
The men that went to the Pelicot house then changed their mind NEVER reported it. They could have called and left an anonymous tip. Protecting the "bro code" was more important to them.
Yeah, they became enablers and accomplices, or "one of them", too.
Men won’t hold men accountable…. Until they’re in trouble then it’s every man for himself
That's why it *is* all X Ys
Or they did report it. But no one cared.
@@fantym-1 If it is all men, then I am not responsible or my actions. I'm just a monster. It's just what I do.
Like all sexual crimes, this situation isn't an aberration.
This is happening all over the place.
The aberration here is that we're hearing about it
BUT as Gisele said "the shame is THEIRS, not mine"
Not all men, but: her postman, a fireman, a local baker, a doctor, and 50 other local men all convicted.
Gisele herself is AMAZING for breaking the silence around this very fucked up abuse.
I followed the case from beginning to end, and it was one hell of a ride.
What's so terrifying about her case is that she is, on the surface, the absolute perfect victim. She was a fine, upstanding, middle class, white woman woman, the kind who did everything in life she was told to do, and that all women are constantly being told we need to be like, in order to be protected from harm. And a monster found her anyway!
Any woman who believes she is safe just because she fits a particular profile is lying to herself.
Your innocence will not save you from the monsters who live among us. It might in fact, attract one to you.
I know only too well….unfortunately 😢
Spot on. And then what most of the victims learn is that nothing stops a predator, not fawning, not fighting, not threatening, giving in, pleading, nothing.
Honestly, a lot of factors don't matter on who can be a victim of DV. You can be a celebrity and a victim of it. You can have several PhD degrees and be a victim.
It's the other minority factors that raise the likelihood of it happening to you, because the perp thinks they can get away with it.
Also, alcohol does not put ideas in abuser's heads. It just lessens their inhibitions. If alcohol is making them violent to you, they had already thought about it, but the potential consequences were the only thing holding them back.
I'm also a victim. PTSD over it is gnarly af these days, with all these awful dudes around.
💯💯
And the defense attorneys still tried to slut shame her.
Ms. Pelicot is a total badass and hero.
💯
❤❤❤
It was reported that 70,000 men were in a Telegram group that had the same goal as Gisele’s husband’s group. The thought that there are 70,000 OTHER men worldwide who are actively trying to convince themselves this is “okay behavior” is mind boggling. Had he not been arrested, this deplorable behavior would have easily continued until the day she died.
70k actively participating members and God know how many silent viewers who didn't post anything in those groups.
And that’s only one group. Who knows how many more there are.
He could have also just been charged with the up skirting , but whoever interviewed him requested they check his hard drive thankfully. So many men record themselves SA'ing women.... they act with impunity, like it's not even a serious crime to them.
@@heidithesausage its not a serious crime to SOCIETY, that's the problem. 99% of rape complaints in France are summarily dismissed by their police. It's a crime so common, it's banal. And if we want that to change, reporting on it and policing of it needs to change. Everywhere.
@@MadCatLady28totally. The societal attitude towards heinous crime has become laissez fair because we've been exposed to it and we've become greatly desentitised. Also, outlandish and abusive behaviours have become a common place, especially on social media where people are openly abusing other people verbally, emotionally, physically, psychologically, financially, and it's for "entertainment" purposes, when I never came across a more criminally charged claim because it effectively legitimised abuse as just entertainment!
I worked at a women’s crisis center for many years and can assure you that all women deal with, at minimum, misogyny on a daily basis, and, at worst, severe abuse which often leads to death. Thank you for this. ❤
So true
Wishing all the love and healing to Gisele and her daughters-in-law
And daughter. His own daughter.
The "Not All Men" segment was very emotional for me.
Not all - but much too many and increasingly more!
There was no women abusing that woman for dopamine on those devices. It's not all men; But it is.
It was emotional for me as well. Sending ❤.
The sad fact is that while it isn’t technically all men it is a high enough percentage that it makes no difference. TY Will, for being a good man 💙
@@reckmanD High enough to make the bear sound good.
@@reckmanD - Too damn high.
@@heidim7732 @shinyavalon exactly
It's not even the fact that it's a percentage (cuz it's probably less than a percent) it's the fact that even if it was just one man doing anything like this, it would be one too many.
People have to recognize that there is a problem. Instead of cowering behind the fact that they aren't the ones causing it, they should try and work towards a solution. Not all men are bad, Not all men are good either. A man cannot be good if he isn't trying to make things better.
Exactly, the number of men who are like that is way too high for women to take the risk. This is why there's the "male loneliness epidemic" and women are choosing "the bear"/"single life". Better safe than sorry!
At this point, I'm so numb... after what felt like a decade within the span of... 4 years? We've seen Roe v Wade fall, seen the women in Afghanistan being left at the hands of their tormentors and more strict rules being enforced on them, we've seen the Pelicot case, seen a rapist become president of America (again)...
In a time when women are supposedly "free" and have more equality than ever before. It's all so soul-crushing. It feels like we are screaming until we are blue, and ignored as if we don't even exist. My anger has run out... I just feel apathetic and empty.
Those are very natural emotions and states in front of all the horrors you've seen. We need to remember that we can get traumatised by proxy, just witnessing another or others ' abuse! Remember self care is also deciding when too much is enough and filling up our inner well with lovely stuff. x
💯
Men will fight tooth and nail to oppress Women even if it hurts men.
Very true
Hug hun? We're still here (and fighting)
It's time for men to speak up and actually protect like they say they will. Protection doesn't just mean protecting your woman, but standing up for all women. Women have NEVER, EVER deserved abuse.
Women would not need protection if men would stop being predators.
This ❤. Also, fellas, you'll grow exponentially, in her eyes.
Agreed. And there is also a difference between protecting your wives, daughters, partners, and mothers because they are more socially vulnerable human beings, versus protecting them from a misguided view of property rights (purity culture, honor killings). The two come from very different places and women need to be protected for their own sake, not for the sense of honor of their menfolk.
@@d3pr0fundis Women will never be safe as long as men control the narrative!
If you choose to remain silent while witnessing a crime, you are complicit in that crime.
People keep forgetting that 90% of grapes against women are perpetrated by people they knew, with 47% being an ex/current partner (23%) or family member (24%). Women live in constant danger, even amongst people we are supposed to trust, and men wonder why we would rather choose the bear. The bear is predictable, men aren't
And you don't need to worry about being called a liar after a bear attacks you.
And men walk alone at night with no weapons, don't lock the door on their car when inside it or their house, and sleep through any fucking noise.
@@Hiforest I watched a new channel called PinkPillRX and it's last telling her husband all these stats about SA. She points out that on average, a bear attack lasts about six minutes. The average SA lasts 4 and a half hours. Yeah, there is a reason to choose the bear
@@dallasaranjo9336About the duration of the effects of a certain blue pill?
In her own home 🥺 she’s a hero to all survivors, at least a bear in the woods won’t film us, drug us, grape us & lie to us for a decade & then expect forgiveness
But hey we’re just being too picky
Absolutely....at least I haven't seen any numpty post that she "chose badly". Probably out there somewhere though.
@@carolgordon3056 no doubt, they are programmed to victim blame
I am awed by Giselle’s bravery. I don’t know if I could be so public about this, but I and other women are grateful to her for bringing this out. The German authorities just shut down an online chat group of 70,000 men. They communicated in English but were from multiple countries. They were trading tips on how to SA females in their households ( daughters wives, sisters, mothers). It was similar to Giselle. I am shocked but should not be at this point.
It does remind me of the time, many years back, when I was sharing about these groups of pua and mgtow men and people thought I was crazy and attention seeking, yet I didn't share all that I've observed. It was and is really bad. It's really about time that the justice system steps in seriously.
darcyroyce Agreed. These people are using the web for astonishing amounts of evil.
@@darcyroycewhat does pua and mgt or
@@msthang5366
Acronyms for the men's groups, pick-up artist and men going their own way
@@msthang5366 PUA = Pickup Artists
MGTOW = Men Going Their Own Way
The irony in both of those titles for calling it "artistry" and "going their own way" has never stopped infuriating me even after all these years since I first learnt about them.
Twenty years for this abysmal excuse for a husband is grossly inadequate. Should be life without parole, possibly in solitary confinement.
Although 20 years perpetually reaching for the soap might be suitable…
At least he was given a prison sentence. In the US, they would have found some way to make it her fault and at most given him a slap on the wrist.
They wouldn't have taken as many men to court, that's for sure (i don't think the UK would have either - they'd have selected a few of the easier to prove cases and let dozens of men off with rape).
@@Hiforest Seems like lots of them were easy to prove when the ringleader husband takes videos and carefully labels all the videos with the rapist's name.
His sentence should have been counted as ten years for every assault committed against his wife.
I wanted to say to the creator, I have noted that there has been a lot of brilliant men allies speaking frankly from your neck of the woods, Australia and New Zealand. I just wanted to say from a sister from Canada I have noticed and it makes me very hopeful indeed. Thanks.
Aussie here, and while we are lucky to have men like Will and our NZ brother, we have our share of creeps. Love to our Canadian cousins
“If through all that you still don’t understand why women are choosing the bear…”
Jesus, thank you for saying this. This is the refrain I keep repeating to every bloke I purposely discuss this case with.
There was another similar situation in South Korea, where a group of like 5-6 men who met on an online forum organised a “swap”; they would give their wives sleeping pills, then invite the other male group members over to grape the women while drugged unconscious. Went on for years. So I mean, the Pelicot case, for all its horror…it isn’t even NOVEL. Two countries have had cases like this just in the last couple of years, and those are just the big ones I’m aware of.
Like, honestly, do any of y’all still have any questions about this? Because bears will kill you (sometimes)... but men can do damage that for many women results in a fate much more painful than death.
As one women said "I know if the bear attacks me, people will believe me".
@ oh Jesus…yeah. There’s that too.
That’s so true. I’d rather die than go through something like this…
In Brazil this happend too, It came out before The Gisele Pelicot case.
Is Sad, but choosing a Bear sounds like Hope at this point.
Mme Pelicot wanted people to understand it can be “ANY MAN” even your husband of 50 years. It is not only monsters that harm women. I believe we should change All men to Any man, it is a better representation of reality. Most SA are committed by someone the victim knows, it is rarely a stranger.
I much prefer the "any man" to all men.
It absolutely IS "monsters that harm women"! Just because they can hide their true monstrousness for years, that doesn't mean they weren't always monsters, else they wouldn't have gone through with their sick fantasies!
all 51 men were from a 30 mile radius. 30 miles. It wasn't like he was flying these guys in. It might not be all men, but we looking at all men now arn't we? And the 51 men range from 26 to 74. thats 3 generations. Again it might not be all men but it's all men.
Tip of the iceberg
Small community and almost all the men had to know this was going on, even if they didn’t participate. None of the ones watching online tipped off the cops either. A third of men will admit that they would rape someone if they thought they’d get away with it, and clearly there’s another big group that won’t admit it but do it. And the rest ignore these crimes. Sorry, not sorry. The best we can say about almost all the not raping men is that they’re cowards.
And those were just the ones who the police was able to identify. The report said it was 70 (if I remember corretcly) men who have abused her (not counting her husband). Plus, that's just in her case. How many other women suffered and are still suffering from the same thing, organised in other chat rooms like these?
It's "not all men." but it's ALWAYS a MAN.
And these were just the men the authorities were able to identify. There are people out there who got away with this.
I bet It, they only found The Men that was living nearby.
The sentence should be way more than 20 years.
Limited by French law, not arguing though.
@@carolgordon3056 I think most countries are the same. Not enough time behind bars for sex crimes
What an incredibly brave and heroic woman. She has saved lives. I am humbled.
And as we all know, the ones that get caught are usually only a small fraction of the actual number of cases similar to this one.
70k was the number in the chat specifically for it.
@seraphilight 70,000 in one chat on one forum. There are plenty of other places for this kind of thing to flourish.
Good men need to stand up and speak out against it. Just saying that it is "not all men" is not enough. Good men, we need you on our side.
Absolutely, 100%, I'll stand on any platform to shout it, we do need men at the table to do the work and coach each other! ❤
The good men are already on our side, it's the "nice" ones that need convincing to change their views and realize that the saying, "if you aren't part of the solution then you're part of the problem." exists for a reason. Those are the ones that will think that they deserve good boy points for not participating in the acts and not understand that ignoring or enabling that behavior in others sends them crashing back into the negatives.
It's very likely all the 'bad' men that were referred to in this video think they are good men. And that's the big problem.
I agree with this 100% but also we shouldn’t have to ask good men to be on our side.. they’re not very good if they need to be begged and told to care about women
@@CreativeCrumbles Not necessarily so-they may not have the skills. for instance, once upon a time I was standing up for ideals (white woman here)in a group where I should have belonged and got shot down. Later i talked to a young white guy who was in the group about it. He agreed with me but didn't like the optics of white dude taking over the convo so he didn't speak up.. So, perhaps just some 'how to' ideas are needed. I certainly could use better social graces in difficult circumstances.
Well said. Giselle is beyond courageous, strong, and powerful! She is precious and deserves love for being who she is. I was a victim of date rape back when I was 17. I am in awe of her strength and conviction ❤
We know it's not all of us, but too many of us are not speaking out when we learn of this.
Do better.
Thank you for this.
Speaking out about it can be a very delicate matter, especially for victims, but for those supporting them, as well. Victims ' ordeal doesn't end with the abusive act itself. It carries on in the aftermath in forms like intimidation, threats, ganging up, forcefully holding them hostages, stalking, tracking, dragging them back, further physical, and emotional, many a time financial exploitation and abuse. It's not always possible to just leave, or just talk about it, unfortunately.
Speaking up will do absolutely nothing. Bad guys will do bad things no matter what I say.
@@HeathHuckers yes, and then said bad bois are going to prison, with padded walls, or not. Statistically speaking, a lot of criminals get away with what they did because the victims are traumatised and unable or unwilling to go to the police and file a report. Together with the overall cultural and economic climate, and the obvious struggle of the justice system, we can safely say that we're living in the wild wild West, still, crime does get addressed when it's detected. So, for everybody out here - it's a bit of a myth that perpetrators can do as they please, nope, they'll be caught, and they'll be given a sentence. That's what they need to be acutely aware of. It's always a matter of time.
Not entirely sure how much you know of the Pelicot case, but the couple lived in a small town. Many of the men were on a encrypted Internet site (it no longer exists) where they would talk about 🍇 and/or subjugation. It was this site that the husband placed adds for men to 🍇 his wife, he was not the only one.
Although many didn't take the offer up, *my* point is, why weren't they going to the police?
All they did was say to themselves "not for me" instead of thinking "this is a crime"
That needs to change.
Another thing is she’s the so called “perfect victim” or the “model victim”. She’s an upper middle class white woman who has a great reputation, got married to an upper middle class man, had kids, raised them and was living with her husband and (I believe she had grandchildren) and she was drugged to oblivion by a person she TRUSTED. And there are till some apologists. There are still people that say “how could she not have known?” Or “she definitely knew and got off on it”. It’s so scary how you can go on twitter and say “this case and any other (g)rape case is ONLY the fault of the attacker” and there will still be people who try to disprove that.
She’s an absolute hero for making this public. People told me that my ex’s domestic violence towards me was a private, family matter. My response was always, no it’s not; it’s a matter of public record.
And this is why I don’t trust anyone… our world needs to change, these abuses to anyone should never happen and needs to stop. I am tired of hearing “not all men” when there are thousands who think any of this behaviour is ok
Men who say "Not all men" are simply cowering behind the fact that they aren't the ones causing the problem, this is a cowards approach to a problem harming far too many.
If you see someone online saying something that, call them a coward, as they can no longer Direct anything away from themselves when you are directly calling them a coward, they'll have to deal with the fact that instead of working towards a solution they chose to hide
At least 70,000 were on a website with this guy exchanging advice on how to violate their wives and mothers. Not one of them thought it was bad enough to go to the authorities.
This woman's strength and resilience is astounding. I'm amazed how courageous she is.
Not all men confront other men when they speak of abusing women and bragging of SA, will it stop.
Amen, Will.
A majority of men voted for a rapist president who bragged about groping women. Anyone who supported that pig does not get to say “not all men”.
"If we had to investigate every accusation of child [sexual] abuse we'd never get anything else done"
said to me by a uniformed member of the NSWPF when I went in to report a guy casually telling me that QPS were after him for making CSA imagery (he was trying to pretend he was delulu. Umm, no. Not buying it. That is not how psychosis works. It's how grooming works, though)
'When one in ten men is shit and the other nine do nothing, they might as well not be there.'
Kinda forgot where I heard that but it's what I quote in answer to the 'not all men' argument.
@@loveverythingbooks Daniel sloss
I appreciate you, so much, Will. Thank you for calling this out and sharing that there is way too large a percentage of men who are fine with harming women.
They should name all of the men involved and publish their pictures. Why should they be anonymous? We should be warned to protect ourselves.
not sure if i can post a link. i saw the whole list is on bbc.
@epiphanyy146 Ah okay thank you, I will take a look.
www.bbc.com/news/articles/c785nm5g5y1o
Gisele is an amazingly strong, brave and truly courageous Queen.
A part of this story that didn't get much coverage is that she repeatedly went to her gynaecologist as something was 'wrong'. Her husband knew about these visits and I believe even drove her to a couple of the appts. Nothing was found and he kept silent 😢
Unfortunately she has now been left with several STDs because of this.
He probably took her to those appointments so that he would know when to run if he was found out
He went with her to the appointments and asked manipulative questions like: 'What are you doing, with so many vaginal infections?' And: 'So tired and memory problems as well, do you have Alzheimer's?'
This case makes me so sad that I’ve tended to avoid it.
I know what happened and it makes me cry every time I hear it. What chance does this world have when it’s run by people like this? I won’t go on - this has done its job for the algorithm.
Thanks Will for speaking out. As a woman, I appreciate your work so much. Just wish more men were like you!
This woman is an absolute BADASS. Stronger than any man.
The shame is THEIRS
Thank you for highlighting the men that heard of it, and said no, but didn't report it.
To think that a man who you knew and loved would do this to you is unimaginable😢
Thanks Will 🙏 it's incredibly rage inducing that even after a case like this, highlighting how these perpetrators are among us, in our homes, most men are not speaking out about this behaviour. LinkedIn is full of women sharing this case and they would be lucky to have one or two men in their comments discussing it. They can't even acknowledge these violations are happening, let alone take action to reduce it 😢
All those men didn't live far from her, can you imagine howany men would do that if they had the possibility?
Yes. His content went out worldwide. These were just the men within easy driving distance.
Thank you for sharing this and your thoughts, Will. And good on Gisele for sharing her case with the world when she didn’t have to. In a world where some women can’t even trust their own husbands, I’m definitely happy staying single and independent.
Thank you. 🙏🏽 this and your video on Andrew Tate are so important…. Thanks for including ‘myfathersbarber’
To the guys who say to me, "not all men", I now ask, what have you done personally, in your everyday life, to show your male friends this isn't you and you don't support abuse, objectification, belittling or diminishing of women? Do you call other men out for bad behaviour? Do you laugh at their sexist jokes? Do you ever say, "Boys will be boys"? Because frankly, most men in my experience are highly complict with everyday sexism and misogyny by literally saying nothing, or even going along with it. It doesn't have to be on the scale of Gisele's husband's crimes to be harmful. And good on you Will, from you alone I would accept a "not all men" because you're definitely speaking out
What infuriates me, is that "boys will be boys" is said by women as well.
Can you do a video on Dora Moono Nyambe? She was an angel on earth who saved so many girls from child marriages and threw many many men in jail, was ridiculed, threatened and harassed and for that there is speculation of why she died recently.
Thanks. I did not know about her. She was fantastic. RIP Dora.
The part that messes me up with this is that they were married for DECADES more than 40 years. They had and raised 3 children together.
I doubt the abuse only started 10 years ago. That is probably when he started recording it
Some of those men appealed, which means Gisèle will have to testify at another trial after the series of gruelling ordeals she already went through. She was already demeaned beyond belief by the perps' defense lawyers and the nightmare isn't over, far from it. She is such a force of nature.
I say she is not demeaned. They may try to demean her but she rises above.
She is truly a powerful woman! And the world and what did she did make a stand! I was sexually abused by my father; and l am with her! Power to her and all the women out there to show there strength!❤❤❤
By taking this fight in public, Gisele Pelicot has fought for all of us, and pushed the shame towards the guilty ones, away from us. She deserves our endless respect and gratitude for her bravery.
I wish Gisele peace.
She is TREMENDOUS.
She is beyond brave, poised and taking this with immense grace. And he only got 20 years.... seems like he got off easy. He dehumanized her in the most disgusting way I can think of, and he gets to live. That is a shame.
There was a case in the USA of a father who hosted a sleepover for his daughter & drugged her & her friends. One of the girls texted her mom who was asleep & then texted another family family who came to pick her up. There were over 70,000 men on the Telegram group Pelicot had set up, from all over the world. On that group the men were instructed on how to “sedate” their family members, including children. I sincerely wonder if this “dad” was a part of that group or a similar one.
BEAR!!!
💯
🐻
A fact I have researched, the average bear attack is over in 3 minutes, the average grape is 4.5 hours long. I choose bear 🐻
To the "not all men":
As the Germans say, the exception only confirms the rule. The rule to us women is we have to stay alert in the presence of any man. Case closed.
“Not all men” has become a red flag to me. They are trying to hijack the conversation and make it all about them. It’s disgusting. In a case like this, to not show empathy for the victim but to engage in white masking bullshit to make yourself look good just hits so wide of the mark it’s not funny. It makes them look like perpetrators. How dare they. Fkn men.
@@KalleestoI agree that many use this to hide and excuse, yet there are good men who shouldn't be made to feel guilty, or that they have a chip on theit shoulder just because they're men, no? I think one truly needs to understand how it is to be considered dangerous and isolated just because they're by default men or women... Stereotyping and overgeneralising are two of the most common cognitive errors that make us discriminate, almost mindlessly, towards all members of a group.
@@darcyroyce
Sounds an awful lot like trying to reverse the Vic.
20 years, 3-15 years, how disgusting.
Violence is always a behaviour choice made to harm. That awful ex husband made the choice to harm Gisele (and others). I had a violent ex who chose to hurt me in several different ways.
They always have the choice not to harm someone, but they don't choose it. And too many men are not held accountable for the harm they do to others (including under the law).
What is worst , the daughter endured the same, but no footage was found so she was not believed by court.
What is Sad.
If a Men have The courage to share his with with strangers, why he dont do this to his daughter?
Drug his daughter was The only way to Prevent her to wake up and see what was going on in The house.
You're one of the good ones Will 😢
Well said.
And thank you for keeping up the good work.
Dear men, you can't "take the word" of another man that a woman has consented to something. Unless you've heard her, in her own CONSCIOUS voice, enthusiastically agree to it, she has not consented. Wouldn't think you have to explain this, but here we are.
The absolute worst thing for me is how he gaslit her and also convinced all of the doctors she would see that all she was suffering from was stress.
When in fact it was the coma level of drugging he regularly subjected her to for almost a decade that was the cause of her physical symptoms as well as her severe issues with memory loss (and not only during the times when she was put under a medically induced coma without any supervision or even a medical professional present - I'm talking about it affecting her a lot in her regular day to day life!) she was suffering from!
As a French woman I thank you for this ❤
It's good to know that Gisèle's ordeal is having a world impact. Although I'm not so hopeful about my own countrymen, especially decision-makers who haven't done or pushed anything to make women safer or better heard for years.
Now with the debt our country has, it will be the perfect excuse to sweep the whole thing under the rug because it doesn’t fit their political narrative.
Gisele is a heroine. And unfortunately it's usually someone we know, rather than a stranger.
Mine was.
A hug from Canada.
Thank you. There is no Neon sign either, so we have to be careful until we can be sure. This is why trust has to be earned.
If you can’t trust your spouse that you’ve been married to for several decades, there is no way trust can be earned.
Fucking horrific. I literally threw up, that poor woman.
"Through all of that if you still don't understand why women are choosing the bear, God help you."
Thank you!
Jesus, what kind of world are we living in 😢
Thank you for being one of the few men to speak on this issue.
I was SA’d by my dad as a little girl.
1 in 4 girls and 1 in 7 boys will be SA’d by the time they reach adulthood, and often times the crimes are committed by those closest to them. Just as in my case and just as in Gisele’s case.
Team Bear.
What was done to her is horrible! 😢😢😢😢😢😢..she is brave and couragous!..❤❤️🥰❤️❤️
You did such a good job putting this together and the end about the bear was perfect
Such a terrifying case really. I am so glad she let the case be public... because that information needs to be known about the perpetrators
Well said Will - also, I admire Gisele Pelicot so much
Also, this wasn't a one-off unique case. This happened in Asia, and I believe they were using the same site. Which is finally shut down after years of trying to get it shut down. The authorities knew about it- so it's deffo not the only case.
There's also the US women's prison that was openly raping and abusing prisoners, involving even the warden. They would enact revenge if the women tried to tell someone or report something a guard did- which is how they eventually found out the warden was a part of it.
Then you for covering this case. I 1st heard of it on a crime TH-cam channel. It shows how bad women are treated in France.
Don't kid yourself it's only in France, it's worldwide. There is no "safe" country or society on this earth. The 70k members of that single website were from all around the world, and it's far from the only website, forum, discord etc.
... it is all over the world that women are abused.. what do you mean, 'in France"? Women are being abused in your own neighborhood.
Yes, Will, perhaps even more disturbing than the awful details of the case is the wide-ranging COMPLICITY of how many? Thousands? Millions? 🤮
Thanks for all you do.
Will... 🙂❤️❤️
She’s also being attacked by some of these men’s wives. It’s horrific
It's disgusting.
I didn’t know she was exposed to an HIV positive animal. 🤦🏿♀️. Every time I think I heard it all about this case something else appears.
He was one of the guy that went there more than once...
@ wow
and like...she was having all of these mental and health problems over the course of those 10 years and he was by her side like a devoted husband...meanwhile he was the source of her pain...
so many levels of evil
Thank you for talking about this. Great video at the end
She is SO STRONG! I hope her case gives others the strength to let others find their own strength and that it's okay to stand up for themselves. It IS their shame!
Best video of yours that I've seen yet. Thank you for pointing out the obvious. May all men choose to care about all women and all men. And may all women do the same.
I'm so sorry for her and all other woman who have suffered❤. Sadly the stories are numerous and never ending. I understand the bear statement better than anyone.
Thank you for sharing and speaking up🙏 I'm 36 and I've never felt safe because I was neglected by my parents and SA'd from age 4 until court when I was 14. Sad thing is, I told my mom what was happening when I was 5.
I wish the world was a better place. I wish I was never born into the world the way it is. From birth to now, nothing has given me a reason to want to be born, the opposite in fact. I'm just going through the motions till the Lord takes me.
Gisele is a heroine. The scope of these kind of crimes is horrifying. What the hell is wrong with men? Even those who chose not to participate in the end, didn’t report it.
Will’s reaction, by the way, is exactly why we refer to it as righteous anger.
What an amazingly strong woman. I hope she is getting along peacefully now and lives her life wholly now, experiencing nothing but love and kindness. Her quota for b/s has been more than filled and she deserves all the goodness to balance out these horrific acts done to her.
And thank you, Will for bringing in another man who recognizes the problem and speaks out. It gives me some comfort to know you aren't a unicorn and I'd love to see more of your brothers in kindness and respect.
Keep up the amazing work. I see how it helps so many women in your comments. And i know it has helped me. 🌻
Merci Gisele ♥
Thank you Will. This needs to be repeated until ALL MEN take a stand for women!
I can't thank you enough for your content and especially this video. Thanks for spreading this very important information!!!
Horrific.
And when they say that women abuse too. Find me a case on this scale where the perpetrators are female and people try to explain it away as if it's ok. *this is not to minimise the experiences of people who've been abused by women but to comment on the fact that abusing women is so normalised that this could ever even happen.
Precisely. Yes, women can be horrible perpetrators and these cases are often not taken as seriously as they should be, but these instances are nowhere near as common, as extreme or happen on as large of a scale as the absurd amount of male on female sexual violence, it's not even close. This fact of the matter is extremely hard to cope with for both men and women alike. No reasonable human being enjoys being a part of a perpetual perpetrator or a perpetual victim faction that they never chose to be a part of.
Its most men.
And in reality more, than you would/could imagine.
We need more men to protect women. Thank you for speaking up. And all the men who speak up.
One even near miss of an encounter such as this is far too many. TYSVM for this.
Sick just sick 🤢