Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience, Jeff. When determining charge rates, should I consider my battery bank capacity the manufacturer’s rated capacity in amp-hours or the useable capacity commonly expected from that type of chemistry? E.G. A manufacturer rated 100 AH flooded battery, 35% useable (85%-50%). Is 25% max charge rate 25 amps or 8.75? Thank you, Alex
Thanks for making these public! Any chance of you doing another one that includes LFP batteries and related charging, monitoring and management issues?
Thank you for the knowledge. I believe this is geared more towards larder boats/yachts, but it helped me . Guy I bought the boat from had a deep cycle battery starting the boat...thank you for potentially saving my life!
What about LTO batteries and LiFePo? I've read some very interesting things about these technologies, but LiFePo is very expensive still, and LTO doesn't appear to have anyone manufacturing it for marine usage yet.
Hi David, First hand, we and others can attest to the performance of the Firefly battery. The adoption of the Firefly battery is probably slow for two reasons: 1) Lack of supply, with delays measured in months, means very few boaters are actually able to purchase Firefly when they need them. 2) As a rule of thumb, any innovation no matter how great always as a slower then anticipated adoption rate.
I would say the price is the reason. 1 carbon foam is effectively equal to 4 lead acid, but the price is still equal. IF you want people to swap you have to be at a LOWER price and greater benefits otherwise there is little incentive to change as no one really cares about 10 years down the road. A very few do, but exceptions are a piss poor business model. @@PacificYachtSystems
@@gfimadcat LFP requires 1) expensive batteries and 2) extra components which are expensive. Currently looking at going with USED 80% capacity LFP and looking at the cost even with the alternator surge problems etc.
Great presentation Jeff, thanks. Right at the end you did that series batteries were better. I am trying to figure this out. I thought that most batteries were comprised of multiple approx 2vdc cells in series in a bigger package. i.e. 3 cells for 6v & 6 cells for 12v. Am I correct in assuming that 2 6v batteries in serious have a larger capacity than the single 12v battery of similar size. Please excuse my ignorance. Bob
Hi, Thank you for the good explanation. But i have a question? On my boat i want to replace the service batteries (age) with a set AGM batteries 12volt,500amps. Charging is no problem for the altenator and the shore power. But i have +/-600 watts = max 30amps/ 12 - 14volts charging power. Usually i charge somewhare between 5amp (winter) and 25amps (summer). But that is not the minimum requirement for the charging capacity for the batteries. Do you think the batteries are never fullt up, or am i seeing something wrong? Greating S. Siebenga. Amsterdam
Hi Sjoerd, if your battery is used as deep cycle battery and the capacity goes well below 85%, then you should consider a way to recharge your batteries at 10 - 20% of capacity. Perhaps you can run a high output alternator.
Hi Jeff, I have power boat with single Engine 5.0 Mercruiser, can I put two AGM Battery 100ah each, but both of them are pure deep cycle battery, is that will harm my Engine?
Q: Why can't the Firefly battery be used as a starter battery? I read their C rating and they more than seem to be able to be used this way. Thanks. Looking at the Firefly real hard right now even if I have to drive to Canada to get them. (Seattle based)
Thanks. Somehow I missed that on its spec sheet. Of course sailboats have small engines so no big deal. Guess a power boat will have to use them in parallel if using Diesel. @@PacificYachtSystems
Hi TST1998, All batteries offer various advantages and disadvantages. The LiFePO4 battery is a really good choice for the following boaters: 1) makes use of the high # of cycles (i.e. factor of 10 or more over flooded lead acid) 2) have limited space and want to minimize weight 3) ability to recharge quickly 4) relatively steady voltage throughout discharge All these benefits come at a significant cost and it’s up to the boatowner to decide if the cost is worth it. At PYS we only work with LiFePO4 battery manufacturers that are well established and have a proven track record in the field.
Pacific Yacht Systems So would you recommend buying LiFePO4 batteries from China since they are usually like over half the price as you would find them in the US and CA. On paper they generally look the same...
Hi Mowhimdown, Potential buyers of LiFePO4 batteries face a dilemma, either purchase LiFePO4 from: 1. A reputable manufacturer (Lithionis, MasterVolt, Victon, Xantrex, etc.) and pay a conventional price per Amp-hour, knowing that there is a company standing behind their product. 2. A newcomer manufacturer which charges less than the conventional price per Amp-hour. Wondering what recourse an purchaser has if something goes sideways? Professionally, in light of the sophistication of the battery management systems required for LiFEPO4 battery, we recommend a reputable manufacture that is bound to the quality of their product and has too much too loose to produce a less then stellar product.
![ILLSLICK - WINTER IS COMING [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dwTMeM1zIhQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience, Jeff. When determining charge rates, should I consider my battery bank capacity the manufacturer’s rated capacity in amp-hours or the useable capacity commonly expected from that type of chemistry? E.G. A manufacturer rated 100 AH flooded battery, 35% useable (85%-50%). Is 25% max charge rate 25 amps or 8.75? Thank you, Alex
Thanks for making these public! Any chance of you doing another one that includes LFP batteries and related charging, monitoring and management issues?
Thank you for the knowledge. I believe this is geared more towards larder boats/yachts, but it helped me . Guy I bought the boat from had a deep cycle battery starting the boat...thank you for potentially saving my life!
Glad it helped
Your videos have been a Bible of information to me. Thanks mate 🍻
Glad to hear it
What about LTO batteries and LiFePo? I've read some very interesting things about these technologies, but LiFePo is very expensive still, and LTO doesn't appear to have anyone manufacturing it for marine usage yet.
Great video. Very helpful. How do Firefly batteries remain a niche item? If the claims are true they are the obvious choice.
Hi David,
First hand, we and others can attest to the performance of the Firefly battery. The adoption of the Firefly battery is probably slow
for two reasons:
1) Lack of supply, with delays measured in months, means very few boaters are actually able to purchase Firefly when they need them.
2) As a rule of thumb, any innovation no matter how great always as a slower then anticipated adoption rate.
I would say the price is the reason. 1 carbon foam is effectively equal to 4 lead acid, but the price is still equal. IF you want people to swap you have to be at a LOWER price and greater benefits otherwise there is little incentive to change as no one really cares about 10 years down the road. A very few do, but exceptions are a piss poor business model. @@PacificYachtSystems
Price and also the fact there's still no European distributor for them, so they basically have a very limited (well...) market.
@@w8stral yet people change to LFP all the time, and those don't come cheap either.
@@gfimadcat LFP requires 1) expensive batteries and 2) extra components which are expensive. Currently looking at going with USED 80% capacity LFP and looking at the cost even with the alternator surge problems etc.
Great presentation Jeff, thanks. Right at the end you did that series batteries were better. I am trying to figure this out. I thought that most batteries were comprised of multiple approx 2vdc cells in series in a bigger package. i.e. 3 cells for 6v & 6 cells for 12v. Am I correct in assuming that 2 6v batteries in serious have a larger capacity than the single 12v battery of similar size. Please excuse my ignorance.
Bob
Hi, Thank you for the good explanation. But i have a question? On my boat i want to replace the service batteries (age) with a set AGM batteries 12volt,500amps. Charging is no problem for the altenator and the shore power. But i have +/-600 watts = max 30amps/ 12 - 14volts charging power. Usually i charge somewhare between 5amp (winter) and 25amps (summer). But that is not the minimum requirement for the charging capacity for the batteries. Do you think the batteries are never fullt up, or am i seeing something wrong? Greating S. Siebenga. Amsterdam
Hi Sjoerd, if your battery is used as deep cycle battery and the capacity goes well below 85%, then you should consider a way to recharge your batteries at 10 - 20% of capacity. Perhaps you can run a high output alternator.
@@PacificYachtSystems Thank you for the advice.
Can u use firefly batteries for starter battery or only house?
Firefly are definitely built for a deep cycle application, but lots of boaters are still using Firefly for starters too.
Hi Jeff, I have power boat with single Engine 5.0 Mercruiser, can I put two AGM Battery 100ah each, but both of them are pure deep cycle battery, is that will harm my Engine?
Hi Ameen, pretty common solution. Otherwise, you could get a NorthStar cranking AGM battery.
Pacific Yacht Systems thanks boss, I follow all your advice, Good luck 👍🍀
Q: Why can't the Firefly battery be used as a starter battery? I read their C rating and they more than seem to be able to be used this way. Thanks. Looking at the Firefly real hard right now even if I have to drive to Canada to get them. (Seattle based)
Some boaters are using the Firefly battery for starting applications. Notwithstanding, it only has a CCA rating of 625 amps.
Thanks. Somehow I missed that on its spec sheet. Of course sailboats have small engines so no big deal. Guess a power boat will have to use them in parallel if using Diesel. @@PacificYachtSystems
Is this the same as firefly?
Outback EnergyCell 106Ah 12V Nano-Carbon AGM Battery w/ Top Terminal 106NC
No. I have heard of them on the internet but I have never seen them in real life nor do I have any first hand experience.
Hi how are you doing ? I like to ask you a question ! Can I charge agm battry with a standard omc alternator ? Thank you
Hi Pajero, it's not ideal but it's fine as long as you have a battery charger that can be set to AGM when connected to shorepower.
@@PacificYachtSystems thank you
Why not LiFePO4? They are already quite cheap in China.
Hi TST1998,
All batteries offer various advantages and disadvantages. The LiFePO4 battery is a really good choice for the following boaters:
1) makes use of the high # of cycles (i.e. factor of 10
or more over flooded lead acid)
2) have limited space and want to minimize weight
3) ability to recharge quickly
4) relatively steady voltage throughout discharge
All these benefits come at a significant cost and it’s up to the boatowner to decide if the cost is worth it. At PYS we only work with LiFePO4 battery manufacturers that are well established and have a proven track record in the field.
Pacific Yacht Systems
So would you recommend buying LiFePO4 batteries from China since they are usually like over half the price as you would find them in the US and CA. On paper they generally look the same...
Hi Mowhimdown,
Potential buyers of LiFePO4 batteries face a dilemma, either purchase LiFePO4 from:
1. A reputable manufacturer (Lithionis, MasterVolt, Victon, Xantrex, etc.) and pay a conventional price per Amp-hour, knowing that there is a company standing behind their product.
2. A newcomer manufacturer which charges less than the conventional price per Amp-hour. Wondering what recourse an purchaser has if something goes sideways?
Professionally, in light of the sophistication of the battery management systems required for LiFEPO4 battery, we recommend a reputable manufacture that is bound to the quality of their product and has too much too loose to produce a less then stellar product.
What would you guess for Island Packet 35 with Fridge for Ahr?
I guesstimate between 40 - 60 Ahr. Really depends on the age of the compressor and the size of your fridge.
Thanks that at least gives a good range.
Haven’t I seen this before?