Jeff, I have a 17 ft. center console boat that I chose to load up with 3 Lithium batteries. The boat is probably worth $15k and has $1,500 worth of batteries in it! I made that decision based on the weight and space savings (huge for a fishing boat of any size, but even more so when you only have 17 ft to play with!) but also because the batteries are actually cheaper than FLA if you take into consideration the longevity and future cost of time/money when you have to replace the FLA batteries every 3-5 years. I can also now keep running my accessories and trolling motor much longer than if I had put in 3 FLA batteries.
Should not scare people about the price of boat, but they should not look at saving on batteries. LifePO4 is a safe technology and will not catch fire under the bed. The top tier marine batteries sold now use some of the same cells you can buy individually. If the pre-made weren't so expensive (paying for the name). There are videos online showing the lithium chemistries and if they are a fire hazard.
I do have an holland steal boat 10 meter. 10kw lithium from ev vw e-golf. 3kw hybrid inverter. 4 x solar panels at 320watt i have bean using like an houseboat for traveling down and true european waterways now for a year !!! Only solar charging even at winter time in norway where sun not is good anof them say
Nigel or Jeff, could you compare the certification, safety, and relative cost of the Lithionic batteries from FL with UL certification and the Super B Batteries from the NL with various marine certifications, particularly with obtaining marine insurance for this relatively new technology?
In terms of the economics of LFP, it seems that if you are not using that many charge/discharge cycles in a year, you should just get many, many more years of use. An additional factor in that is the ability of LFP chemistry to be “OK” with being left in a partial state of charge versus the need for lead-acid chemistry to always be returned to full charge as soon as possible, something that probably does not occur in most casual use situations. But perhaps I am missing something here.
Hi Jeff, I recently has a new boat built by Kanter Marine and we used CZONE and Mastervolt equipment. I get really scared when my alternator charges at 115 AMP sustained. the Matervolt LIfepo just takes it all in. So far so good and it seems like a good system to date. Maybe you could do a video about MasterVolt equipment. I am upgrading to 400AH of battery as we found we would be at 40% in the morning. I just wanted to express that my 400AH of LIFEPO is equal to about 600AH of AGM. Cheers and thanks for all the great info.
is the alternator externally regulated? ideally it would be and it would have an alt temp sensor to throttle back if needed. They can also be set to a maximum rate so it's never running 100% An internal regulatored alt running full blast all the time may have a short lifespan
@@PacificYachtSystems It's a full loop system always talking to the battery though the network. I thought the same thing but was assured it is working as designed.
Great to see the LFP topic on your videos. I have been experimenting LFP for a 3 years now. I am a big fan of your videos. A topic that is not covered often is the need for lead acid / agm as a low cost backup to run critical loads eg engine start, navigation, radar,auto pilot etc. I’m planning on always having enough lead acid to run critical loads. LFP protection systems are complicated and can cause LFP to go offline. Lead acid is reliable and has been engineered into our boats by smart people. One more topic that is interesting but maybe not prime time is paralleled LFP and lead acid with some form of VSR. I have done a video on a few experiments on my boat.
I think the scare tactics around lithium batteries are unwarranted . Where are all these fires? I live in Seattle and boat fires are relatively rare. If lithium battery fires are so common please post a video with the statistics so your viewers can decide on their own.
I agree. It is important to consider the actual chemistry. I suppose this good discussion is around Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4). This is very safe ( see latest Tesla standard range). If we talked lithium nickel manganese cobalt oxide (NMC), this can have run away chemical reactions if pierced or damaged badly. But this type of battery is in mobile phones - so again not so scary dangerous ( don’t recommend damaging these batteries as this is a violent reaction and can cause serious harm). I f treated properly LiFePO4 batteries I believe are safer than the diesel and propane I have onboard or for that sake the rest of the electrical system - fuses and where they should be to protect the cables is another great discussion ;-)
Great discussion. I have a Tartan 33 with two house batteries and solar. My batteries are near end of service and have considered the upgrade. I am limited though as I assume that I would need to convert my belt drive to a serpentine belt drive and my old Universal 5424 has no conversion kit available. I worry about the load on my drive belt. Is that a legit concern?
Going with a higher output alternator is definitely suggested but not required. If your alternator cannot be any bigger (i.e. limited to single V-belt and no serpentine belt), then consider getting a DC to DC charging converter to share (and limit sharing) your alternator charge from engine battery to lithium.
I have a 50a alternator which is connected to a Victron OrionTr 12/12-18 Smart charger. Would you say this is the max charge I should use with that alternator or could I add another Orion-Tr of the same capacity and run in parallel?
Great question, considering your alternator is 50 amps, sharing 18 amps is probably reasonable, As you share more, say 36 amps, your alternator will have a hard time keeping up and not getting too hot, especially if it runs at full capacity for a period of time.
Cutting corners is common when building say a new house, they will spend 30 thousand pounds plus on a kitchen and a Bathroom, but then they want the cheapest Roof possible, because who looks at the roof, when you can't even see it when inside the house, ignoring the fact that it is the Roof that Protects everything Under it. It can be a real problem getting through to such people. ☹️
I really appreciate your videos with guests Jeff. Please be a little more conscious of allowing your guests to speak more freely without too many interruptions and leading comments.sometimes it's better to hear more from your guest, especially such knowledgeable professionals. Keep up the good work.
![[#2024MAMA] ROSÉ (로제), Bruno Mars - APT. | Mnet 241122 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dgGqD28J6aQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Love just listening to Nigel talk about marine batteries and charging systems! Great video!
Glad you enjoyed it! Nigel definitely knows his stuff. Thanks for watching.
Glad you like them!
Ur a must for peoples thats new in this❤❤❤
Helpful helping you all to dont do mistakes thats have cost others a fortune
I enjoyed this interview immensely , Nigel is a cool dude. thanks Jeff
We totally agree! Appreciate you watching.
We think so... thanks for sharing!
Thank you, Jeff. I appreciate your videos.
Great video, what a knowledgable duo.
Much appreciated! Thanks for watching.
Thanks for the feedback.
Jeff, I have a 17 ft. center console boat that I chose to load up with 3 Lithium batteries. The boat is probably worth $15k and has $1,500 worth of batteries in it! I made that decision based on the weight and space savings (huge for a fishing boat of any size, but even more so when you only have 17 ft to play with!) but also because the batteries are actually cheaper than FLA if you take into consideration the longevity and future cost of time/money when you have to replace the FLA batteries every 3-5 years. I can also now keep running my accessories and trolling motor much longer than if I had put in 3 FLA batteries.
Thanks Chris for sharing, much appreciated.
but you can't charge the lithium batteries from the alternator? how do you solve this problem?
@@IrregularPineapples yes, you can charge them using a normal boat alternator.
After a LOT of research, deciding to go with Epoch for my Trolling motor battery.
Should not scare people about the price of boat, but they should not look at saving on batteries. LifePO4 is a safe technology and will not catch fire under the bed. The top tier marine batteries sold now use some of the same cells you can buy individually. If the pre-made weren't so expensive (paying for the name). There are videos online showing the lithium chemistries and if they are a fire hazard.
Thanks Douglas for sharing.
I do have an holland steal boat 10 meter.
10kw lithium from ev vw e-golf.
3kw hybrid inverter.
4 x solar panels at 320watt i have bean using like an houseboat for traveling down and true european waterways now for a year !!!
Only solar charging even at winter time in norway where sun not is good anof them say
now this is a video i’ve asked for! can’t wait :)
Enjoy
I was happy to hear UL 1973 Certification I have two Kilovault 3600 HLX in my boat and they have this certification.Thanks for pointing this out.
Great to hear!
Great video! I'm building a boat and getting ideas for what I need to incorporate
Glad you like it!
Nigel ♥ Such a legend!
Most definitely.
I wish I had half the experience that Nigel has!
We all continue to learn so much from him! Thanks for watching.
I'll settle for 10%... lol.
Nigel or Jeff, could you compare the certification, safety, and relative cost of the Lithionic batteries from FL with UL certification and the Super B Batteries from the NL with various marine certifications, particularly with obtaining marine insurance for this relatively new technology?
In terms of the economics of LFP, it seems that if you are not using that many charge/discharge cycles in a year, you should just get many, many more years of use. An additional factor in that is the ability of LFP chemistry to be “OK” with being left in a partial state of charge versus the need for lead-acid chemistry to always be returned to full charge as soon as possible, something that probably does not occur in most casual use situations. But perhaps I am missing something here.
Thanks for contributing to the conversation Bruce.
Great work guys! Love the myth busting.
Glad you enjoyed it
Hi Jeff,
I recently has a new boat built by Kanter Marine and we used CZONE and Mastervolt equipment. I get really scared when my alternator charges at 115 AMP sustained. the Matervolt LIfepo just takes it all in. So far so good and it seems like a good system to date. Maybe you could do a video about MasterVolt equipment. I am upgrading to 400AH of battery as we found we would be at 40% in the morning. I just wanted to express that my 400AH of LIFEPO is equal to about 600AH of AGM. Cheers and thanks for all the great info.
is the alternator externally regulated? ideally it would be and it would have an alt temp sensor to throttle back if needed. They can also be set to a maximum rate so it's never running 100%
An internal regulatored alt running full blast all the time may have a short lifespan
@@PacificYachtSystems It's a full loop system always talking to the battery though the network. I thought the same thing but was assured it is working as designed.
Are you using a wakespeed regulator?
Great to see the LFP topic on your videos. I have been experimenting LFP for a 3 years now. I am a big fan of your videos. A topic that is not covered often is the need for lead acid / agm as a low cost backup to run critical loads eg engine start, navigation, radar,auto pilot etc. I’m planning on always having enough lead acid to run critical loads. LFP protection systems are complicated and can cause LFP to go offline. Lead acid is reliable and has been engineered into our boats by smart people. One more topic that is interesting but maybe not prime time is paralleled LFP and lead acid with some form of VSR. I have done a video on a few experiments on my boat.
Thanks Danny for sharing your experience, appreciate it.
th-cam.com/video/XAOhT2HwKWM/w-d-xo.html
Who makes batteries that meet the UL793 spec? I can’t find any on the web
Sorry but don't know.
I think you may've misheard and I searched for UL1973. Hopefully this helps
I think the scare tactics around lithium batteries are unwarranted . Where are all these fires? I live in Seattle and boat fires are relatively rare. If lithium battery fires are so common please post a video with the statistics so your viewers can decide on their own.
Thanks for sharing Louis.
I agree. It is important to consider the actual chemistry. I suppose this good discussion is around Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4). This is very safe ( see latest Tesla standard range). If we talked lithium nickel manganese cobalt oxide (NMC), this can have run away chemical reactions if pierced or damaged badly. But this type of battery is in mobile phones - so again not so scary dangerous ( don’t recommend damaging these batteries as this is a violent reaction and can cause serious harm). I f treated properly LiFePO4 batteries I believe are safer than the diesel and propane I have onboard or for that sake the rest of the electrical system - fuses and where they should be to protect the cables is another great discussion ;-)
Great discussion. I have a Tartan 33 with two house batteries and solar. My batteries are near end of service and have considered the upgrade. I am limited though as I assume that I would need to convert my belt drive to a serpentine belt drive and my old Universal 5424 has no conversion kit available. I worry about the load on my drive belt. Is that a legit concern?
Going with a higher output alternator is definitely suggested but not required. If your alternator cannot be any bigger (i.e. limited to single V-belt and no serpentine belt), then consider getting a DC to DC charging converter to share (and limit sharing) your alternator charge from engine battery to lithium.
@@PacificYachtSystems thank you. I will look into Dc to DC to get a better understanding of that set-up
... Electromaax High performance Alternator 250A 12V with extern Regulator ....
.
I have a 50a alternator which is connected to a Victron OrionTr 12/12-18 Smart charger. Would you say this is the max charge I should use with that alternator or could I add another Orion-Tr of the same capacity and run in parallel?
Great question, considering your alternator is 50 amps, sharing 18 amps is probably reasonable, As you share more, say 36 amps, your alternator will have a hard time keeping up and not getting too hot, especially if it runs at full capacity for a period of time.
Cutting corners is common when building say a new house, they will spend 30 thousand pounds plus on a kitchen and a Bathroom, but then they want the cheapest Roof possible, because who looks at the roof, when you can't even see it when inside the house, ignoring the fact that it is the Roof that Protects everything Under it. It can be a real problem getting through to such people. ☹️
I really appreciate your videos with guests Jeff. Please be a little more conscious of allowing your guests to speak more freely without too many interruptions and leading comments.sometimes it's better to hear more from your guest, especially such knowledgeable professionals. Keep up the good work.
Thanks Ralph. Appreciate your feedback and will keep this in mind for future videos. Thanks for watching.
Thanks Ralph, appreciate the feedback.
I thought I was a fine interview
Could you do a video on Marine Audio? Now that we carry our audio and video files digitally ie MP3’s ect. Why’s new?
Appreciate the suggestion.
I wouldn't hesitate to spend the money if I had more confidence that I was getting a safer product. But are we? Or is it just marketing?
so we're discussing a 48V system with a 8KW inverter? not sure how this is helpful for the average boat owner curious about lithium...
Good point, we'll consider more scenarios next time.
@@PacificYachtSystems but still it is the same only lower volt. My houseboat have 12 volt start and so. But housebank is 44kw in 24volt systems
even Lithium can't compete with the Energy Density of Gasoline or Diesel. Something else people don't grasp. 🤔
Key words bullet proof, for Lithium battery 2 key components good BMS and fuse and fuse…. And you can sleep
Thanks for sharing.
If Nigel is the expert why does he keep calling it lithium ion batteries... it's lithium IRON. Lifepo4 batteries.
Probably because LFP is a type of lithium ion battery.
This why u get litium from ev
VW E-GOLF BATTERYES, have hard good tests in the marked.
Grade A and B 😂😂😂 not close to vw BATTERYES.
Cost so lower that ur never belive it