The Secret behind Super Mario Odysseys Boss Design.
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 มิ.ย. 2024
- I really enjoyed the boss fights in Super Mario Odyssey, and this surprised me because usually I don’t like bosses in Super Mario games. But something was different in Super Mario Odyssey. So I started to replay the Super Mario Odyssey boss fights, and a lot of the older boss fights in Super Mario games and tried to find out what was different in Super Mario Odyssey. In this video I want to explain why I usually don’t enjoy Super Mario bosses, and why the boss fights in Super Mario Odyssey are completely different.
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I 100% agree with your opinion and I didn't realize it until I heard it. Any part of a game having a high skill *ceiling* is more important than having a high skill *requirement*. It's why I love 3D platformers, and Odyssey seems to have fixed the one blemish in that genre's formula when it comes to skill ceilings
Shovel Knight is also a good example of 2D bosses done well. Anyone can beat it, though it is fairly difficult, but it's skill ceiling is pretty high. So if you get good at the game, you can get really good. Also, there's no defend/attack cycles, the bosses just uses more difficult to dodge and more damaging attacks or gets more evasive as it gets lower on health.
A skill requirment is called a skill floor
I thought at first that the correct way to beat the girl Broodal was to knock her small bombs back. In the first fight she never got to the large bomb phase.
You did the skilled way.
Yeah, same, that’s how I thought you were supposed to do it lol
I didnt know about the big bombs until the third fight on dark side
You can also spam your hat at her and after 5 hits with your hat, she'll change to big bombs, making the process faster
Speedrunner *CONFIRMED!!!!*
The fights actually remind a bit of how in Punch-Out there tend to be both safer and more aggressive ways of beating the same opponent.
Ceave is so calm and collected during his videos.
He sieves out the irrational, some could say.
also hat in time that's cool
Van Klienm go watch his first Mario Maker speedrun video
Ceaves the, out?
Also i know I’m 2 years late on that joke
How to have good boss fights in platformers: theme your game around hats, apparently
I wish he talked about the broodal mech fight. The skips in that are amazing!
Very interesting. At first I was expecting "ODYSSEY IS GREAT BECAUSE IT'S NEW AAAA" but then I remembered that I'm watching a Ceave video.
MayroSMM
😂 Yeah... Most other TH-camrs would probably say this 😂
Exactly the same thought maryo
R.I.P. my boi Mayro
Part of the reason why I subscribed. :)
Lel, Are you serious Mayro? (Cappy: Umm... Don't question it.)
Odyssey is truly amazing with how it’s as accessible or as challenging as you want it to be. Great video.
Yes, I feel especially boss battle today *wtf does that even mean*
Mr. Moo YT he doesn't speak English well
The seven Ceas He speaks English exceptionally well. If it weren't for his accent, I would probably never notice that I am not listening to a native speaker.
Marian Palko in Austria and germany i belive they dont have that much knowledge about English
U WATCH MR A GAME! U GIVE HIM CHALLENGES!
Ayyyy
Well, you said "in exception of a HAT in time" and super mario odyssey is also a game about hats. OMG YOURE ADDCITED TO HATS
Plot twist: Ceave is actually Hat-Loving Gamer
Floxidian as it turns out, a mod for CAPPY exists in the steam workshop of Ahit!
Tf2 player confirmed
2017 is the year of hat-based platformers.
Dats thumb
Thank you for telling me about this. This made the final boss rush so much easier to get through
"I don't like Mario boss fights but to be more specific *gives a less specific example*"
The SM3DW Boom Boom fight isn't a great example of your problem with attack-defense phase. You can still jump on top of Boom Boom's head while he spins in that game.
The “3D World” one is a good example: he retreats into his shell and bounces around for a bit
The “NSMBU” one though has him vulnerable the whole time, more or less
I assume you meant the latter rather than the former, but wanted to mention it regardless
I really like your analyses on these Mario games. You have a good understanding of what makes these games so good compared to others in the same genre.
I'm in total agreement! A lot of my favorite bosses have me explaining things like this "I love this boss! It's not too hard, but it has "
I love how fun and friendly your videos are, Ceave! I hope you never stop making videos! You're awesome!!!
I 100% agree. Odyssey boss fights are great
Can you do a Hat in Time boss breakdown? I know you mainly do Mario, but it would be really cool as a Hat in Time is one of my favourite games.
You deserve more than 41 K subs
now its 42k
Not its 64k
no its 82k
170k
AmazingGaming Duals
He has mike 222k already
I'm not a fan of open world games, yet I really enjoy Odyssey. It is always overwhelming having no idea where to start and retracing your steps when trying to 100% the first time, so that is why they got the Mario 3D world style bonus stages with usually two power moons, and they made it easier to track your progress. I am also a fan of the whole advanced movement thing, there are still tricks that the developers intended that I didn't notice yet
To be fair, no 3D Mario game is a truly "I don't know what to do open world game" even the most open of them all, Super Mario Sunshine, has ways to track your progress and guide your steps through the game and even to get the 100%
Super Mario 64 don't guide you, but is much smaller and short.
And of course Galaxy, Land, World are like the 2D ones, not open at all.
Why dont you like game that is "open world"? You can almost do anything on that open world game if the game allowed you to
only just found this guy and he’s pretty neat! good video
SmolMatthew You should check out his Super Mario Maker video. They're really good!
You deserve way more subs.
I subbed, keep up the great work man!
Hello Ceave Gaming,
I don't know if you'll read this but...
Do *you* know how PAT Glitch did the Texture glitch ?
Is that hacking ?
(You did a video with glitch levels from PAT Glitch already, i know)
But it would be really cool if you anwser :)
Bascially, do something like this: prntscr.com/h8dtj1| Then just drag the Starting Platform all the way to the top of the screen and then drag it all the way down again. The Texture of the blocks should be glitched now
I had a PAT Glitch level crash my wii u hard. The fan started going on and off like crazy, all the lights were flashing, and when I shut off the wii and turned it back on, it immediately would go back to the frozen screen. Even unplugging it didn't work, until I left it unplugged for a few minutes. I played like 10 of his levels and they were really cool. Then, that happened. I don't know how he still has his courses. Just want to let everybody know, be careful playing his levels or other glitch levels cause from what I hear you might play one of his levels 10 times, and all of a sudden on the 10th try, something like what happened to me could happen. It basically gets stuck in an infinite loop and keeps running the same code over and over many times per second, never stopping.
Amazing video. Discovering the tricks to beat the bosses faster were, for me, one of the most enjoyable parts of the game.
I can't say I noticed many of these little secrets in the game's bosses, but I definitely liked their design overall. Taking the green Broodal boss as an example, each time you knock a hat off you are closer to giving him a stomp, but that hat is now spinning and bouncing freely across the arena and this gets crazy pretty fast in the rematch. Many of the game's bosses had this interesting interplay between the 'attack' and 'defend' phases of a battle -- like how when you grab Bowser's hat he starts jumping away from you, so not only are you entering the 'attack phase' of the battle you can't let YOUR guard down either.
Stellar analysis. Subscribed. :)
You analyzed this so much and so accurately, appreciate this video a lot
Your videos about game design are amazing!
Ceave, I have an awesome Mario Maker idea for you! You might have heard of the new platforming game Cuphead, and I thought of a cool idea: You should try to recreate some of the Cuphead levels and bosses in Mario Maker! The reason I'm asking you is because I don't have a Wii U or 3DS to do this myself, and I would love to see what you come up with for this! I feel like bosses like Werner Werman (the mouse and cat) or Grim Matchstick (the dragon) would be easy enough to recreate :)
My favorite boss fights were both Bowser fights! He looks amazing in the wedding outfit, his tactics are different, and we can experience the fight in it’s full glory! I’ve already completed the main story but I continue to play the game to get the achievements!
And I also clicked for the thumbnail. It’s awesome!😊
The Secret behind Super Mario Odysseys Boss Design.
more like...
How super mario odysseys booses are deCEAVEing
Amazing work!
I feel like I learn something new everytime I watch one of your videos.
2 player mode is how you cheese every boss. My friend kept trolling me durring the Bowser fight though by grabbing Bowser's hat and returning it to him.
No way Ceave. its only been a week
Really clever video, ceave, like usual.
That's pretty awesome Ceave! Who knew you could The Broodals So quickly?
FINALLY someone poonts out that you can squash topper while hes spinning
Great video Ceave!
When I first started watching some playthroughs (I don't have the game yet) the very first thing I noticed were the boss battles. I thought they were brilliant. I noticed that the world taught the player a mechanic, and the boss battle revolved around the mechanic.
For example, in Bonneton, Mario has just gotten Cappy. The player is still figuring out how to use Cappy, and the boss battle in the Cap Kingdom is all about throwing Cappy and jumping. The Cascade Kingdom teaches Mario how to capture a Chomp, and then the boss is a giant Chain Chomp that you have to capture.
I was going to watch the video and then comment about A Hat in Time, but you preempted me. Nice work.
I cant believe you mentioned A Hat in Time during the beginning of the video. I LOVE THAT GAME
Very interesting video !
I love your Videos!!!
This is something I noticed as well, and it was much to my pleasure! I'm a bit inbetween "regular player" and "pro-strats" in my style; I'm no pro, and I'm definitely not a speedrunning type, but I also am very good at Mario games having played 3D Mario titles since I was a lad, so it was a really nice change of pace for me to discover that there are many ways of doing any given thing.
I turned the screen away and listened to what you were saying, it worked.
You can even find exploits in the more linear fights. For example with the Dragon you can get on it,s head while it,s electrified which does damage you but it also allows you to get the chains off the dragon way quicker so you can then pound it,s weak point. This makes the boss more fun seeing as you then will need to get a heart from the ground while dodging the dragons attacks. There seems to be two problems with most Mario bosses. 1. They follow the attack and defence cycle or 2. They are so easy you can push past them with no brain power. This can often be applied to the koopalings although not all of their fights suck in fact I think most of the end world bosses in NSMBWii were really good barring two of them that were very easy(especially Morton) but that is just my take on things.
1:14 illuminate conferred
To be honest, I don't feel the pattern you complain about is a general boss one, but one with a certain type of boss. Because in my opinion, there are two types of bosses in platformers/action games. Type 1 is very structured, gives you no way to speed up the fight and revolves around avoiding attacks until the one chance you get to attack. That's the type in many Mario games, especially NSMB and 3D Land/World.
However, there's also a second type, where you can attack the boss at any time and defeat them regardless of the stage they're in pattern wise. I think Mega Man, Castlevania and Metal Slug have this kind of setup, since you have a weapon that can be used to damage the boss at all times, hence the pace is dictated by the player rather than the game.
And I suspect the second type is more of your taste where boss battles are concerned. But yeah, there are other examples like this out there.
P.S. Nintendo's arguably also done the same thing with the bosses in the later Wario Land games. The fourth one actually gives speedrunners quite a few ones to speed up the battles significantly by staying on top of the boss' head, hitting it in a way it won't fly upwards or what not.
You can also do this with Cookatiel and Bowser. You can burn Cookatiel's butt as a fireball to make him immediately start the puking phase, and with Bowser if you make his hat land close to him but just out of his reach you can start punching him and skip the fire ring/boulder throwing phase. I haven't noticed anything like that with the other main bosses though.
Oookay, every time I go to the Home page and see one of your vids I click on it, so why the HECK haven't I subbed by now? I should've felt especially boss battle AGES ago!
I'd noticed some of these, that you can wait things out or interrupt the defense phase to move on quicker in a lot of the fights, but I hadn't quite realized how unusual this is while playing due to how natural feeling it is as a mechanic.
Your videos are amazing and they Will always be... :) keep up the good quality over quantity videos.
I knew about the trick for countering Topper and Hariet, but those tricks for Spewart and Rango are completely new. Pretty crazy how much there is to do in so much different ways in this game, it's been said before but people will find new ways to do things in this game for years to come.
How do you do these really cool thumbnails and awesome video
Finally a new vid :3
I had to learn this when fighting all the Brodaals at once, because it was too boring to do everything the normal way and then losing again.
I probably losed more often because of trying to defeat some of them earlier, but at least I didn't have to wait that long.
An additional note (that I'm sure isn't *necessary* for the video) is that you can jump on Madame Broodal's chain chomp to stop the otherwise invincible spin attack
So true, this video is great
In the Megabroodals Moon fight you dont need to knock the megabroodal down
Ya-HOO!!! Let's-a go! Good luck
I think all game critics should be like you, Ceave!
since I felt a little extra boss battle today I just HAD to smash subscribe
Ni no kuni 2 isn't a platformer, but has multiple types of bossfights that stay interesting and provide new experiences everytime. I have gone through the game a couple times and I'm still finding more secrets and things to do.
The kirby's bosses are good for that
Les boss des Kirby's sont bons pour cela
I like this mario maker concept!
5:40 you can attack the normal bombs too!
Watch the video before commenting.
Sonic boss fights,Bowser in SMB 1 and 3,freedom planet bosses , oh and cuphead bosses
Another way you could desighn a boss with a high skill ceiling is by having the defence phase be a minigame and you have to complete it to end the phase.
the best bosses are in Kirby- there is no waiting around, you can attack the boss anytime you can get close. you can even inhale or knock back it's own attacks, right from the first fight with whispy.
it's certainly better design than the ultra-linear gameplay we experienced in mario galaxy. if a game is too linear it becomes an interactive tour.
How has this got 4 dislikes? Awesome vid.
you make me want to play mario odyssey again
A HAT IN TIME
yeah, it's taken over my brain
I hated bosses like Mecha Wiggler. That Octopus guy with lava on his head. And ANY rematch.
Ye the thing abt the Octopus dude is that i espected a fight more similar to the one in the galaxy games but instead he runs away.
He can barely hit you becuz ur flying anyways!
Trevor Torracat
Mushroom Kingdom rematch: You didn't like the Mecha Wiggler? Here, have TWO!!!
rematch with mollusque lanceur (AKA octopus) took me about 10 tries to defeat it
To be fair, the rematch with Mollusque Lanceur looked epic.
@@Skid037 Wait what? I beat him on my first go, original fight & rematch.
hats off to you, Ceave! lol
I’m glad to see that I’m not the only person who noticed this.
Speaking of SMO, would you do playthroughs, like you did with Super Mario 64? And will you do more 64 vids too?
I wonder when SMM videos return, also are you gonna cover the fact that comments are gone in SMM
He sounded sadder than usual, i hope he's ok cuz his voice cheers me up
I noticed these skips during the dark side fight when I was messing around with the broodals.
I take it he likes most Megaman bosses better than most others...
(In most cases it merges the two phases, plus you can do perfect and/or buster-only battles to raise the skill ceiling)
Alright, I know it has little to do with the video but what even is A Hat in Time? Is it literally just Super Mario Odyssey without Mario?
It's not Mario Odyssey. I will try to summarize it:
It's a 3D platfomer where you control a cute little kid that need to collect hourglasses around 4 worlds. Each world with different gameplay dynamics, is not just look around and collect, each world plays like a different game just with the same controls:
1. The first world is an island dominated by the Mafia, it's basically Mario Sunshine
2. The second world is a sequence of less open levels(non interconnected) with an light-hearted story behind about two directors trying to win a movie award. Some stages has emphasis con stealth, there is an speed run stage similar to Crash Bandicoot an stage about gathering clues for solving a mystery, etc.
3. In the third world hatkid had to mortgage her soul to an evil spirit and complete tasks for it in order to regain her soul. You select the task from a menu and then enter the world. I didn't even notice if this world is interconnected or not because the tasks are not related each other and each one takes place in a different location.
The tasks are just normal platforming stuff, except for something that was like Luigi's Mansion.
4. The forth world is a set of many islands(I think 4 or 5) in the sky, and is completely open, just with a twist at the end.
Overall I was enjoying it as much as Mario Odyssey, sadly is a lot shorter, so after finishing it I just wanted more :(. I'm not saying that the relation cost/content is not big enough, I would gladly pay double of the price of A Hat in Time for having twice its content, is just that I wanted to continue playing.
It was also announced years ago before Mario Odyssey was announced, so don't think of it as a rip-off (of Odyssey at least, it's definitely heavily inspired by 64 and Sunshine), just some unfortunate coincidences!
Also there is a girl with a moustache
This is obviously a very late comment, but it’s worth leaving. I have always envisioned boss fights to break the formula, and finally when I played Odyssey, it happened. It was subtle, I didn’t had any idea that this happened, but when I experimentally tried to whack my hat to the bosses in their “invulnerable” state, to my excitement, the boss is attacked and some unnecessary parts were skipped. This really makes the game work with for world, not the world working for the game.
A hat in time sounds like Cappy going on a time travel lmao
The boom boom boss fight in Super Mario 3D World is a lot like what you described here.
You should try "a hat in time". It's a platformer game but the boss fight are really cool and very original
i knew it i thought and a hat in time and pop you said a hat in time, my genius is infinite.
"Than any platformer I've ever played before." A new challenger approaches! It's Hollow Knight.
I agree, Super Mario Odyssey's boss fights are surprisingly better..
But I dont really focus on the boss fights but the exploration and gameplay.
Ok so I kind of agree with you about the platforming game boss fights but I have to say that, although difficult, cuphead bosses are pretty dang fun
I didn’t know half of these things in Odyssey!
If I can find my wii u version of super Mario maker I am thinking of making a set of bowser jr fights that include multiple things such as bjr attacking you from under ground, he has a boss rush in his clown car.
A great example of your point is Breath of the Wild, you can beat Thunderblight, and you can beat him well. Just a joke, but great job!
Also difficulty matters a lot if something's too easy and stays easy then I'm going to be bored and not play it a lot if something's too hard and stays too hard I'm going to rage and not play it a lot there has to be a balance
Most of the time, I had to do the Offense/Defense strategy, but it was until I began seeing the good peeps playing it after beating the game that I realized things like being able of interrupting the Broodals’ attacks.
-And what’s your opinion on Kirby Bosses? I’ve heard that they’re in a similar way to Mario’s bosses.-
Kirby bosses has NOTHING to do with Mario bosses, those have a health bar and you can attack them freely, like Megaman bosses.
I love how he says "Bettle" instead of Battle
Cool
Pikmin 2 does a really good job of having almost no skill ceiling for boss fights. Although it is not a Mario game, it is still a Nintendo game, and is a really good example.
The Pikmin bosses in general are incredibly fun to fight
This is kinda interesting because a lot of people say the games bosses are the worst (relatively - this game is too amazing)part of the game
at first i thought "another 3d Mario game? they give a time limit which give no freedom, and it feels like you are just rushing to beat the game!" but when i plaed it i was like "BEST GAME EVAR"