What Makes For A Better Mario Boss?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 มิ.ย. 2024
- The first 500 people who click the link will get 2 free months of Skillshare Premium: skl.sh/designdoc7
It would've been so easy. Super Mario Odyssey is yet another 3D Mario game, and its design could've stayed in the series' comfort zone. But Odyssey's boss design and environmental design is so much more than that. Everything is in its place. Knucklotec in the Sand Kingdom, the Mechawiggler in New Donk City, and the Ruined Dragon in the Ruined Kingdom pair the bosses with their levels in a way the series has rarely done. Let's hear from Mario Odyssey's developers about their design process, and take a trip through some of my favorite bosses and areas of Super Mario Odyssey.
This video was sponsored by Skillshare.
Support Design Doc on Patreon: / designdoc
Design Doc on Twitter: / warbot400 - เกม
The first 500 people who click the link will get 2 free months of Skillshare Premium: skl.sh/designdoc7
*Hits Dark Souls boss 3 times*
*Doesnt die*
*SWEATS*
*Gets twoshot by DS boss*
*RIPs*
*Hey, no fair I had a fire flower, I should've lived*
*I did 3 hits I DID THREE HITS
The 3 hit rule is ingrained in my mind
The couple fights that end in only 2 cycles always feel a little off.
Honestly who doesn’t have it ingrained
@Vazazell Agreed. A lot of Classic Sonic bosses feel just right.
@Vazazell It depends on how often you can damage the boss.
Mario bosses typicly alternate between a "You can attack" phase, and a "Only defend" phase.
If you could only hit the boss ONCE during the "You can attack" phase, and have to wait just to get to attack again, then 3 hits, while small, is enough, so we don't waste too much time.
BUT:
If we could damage the boss multiple times in a row, I wouldn't mind 5-10 HP.
Wario Land 4 is a good example, for the most part.
That’s why they’re too easy... wow 3 hits to kill every single Mario boss. 🙄
"A trip worth taking"
I've not heard anyone describe Mario Odyssey so perfectly in a single sentence before, nice.
Y'know... I noticed the claw marks all over the Ruined Kingdom. I think it's heavily implied that Bowswer beat the Ruined Dragon into submission and enslaved it with that crown that was on its head.
Imagine if that was true.
Bowser being so Badass that can beat a dragon that size and powerful
@@IsabellaCV Yeah, but bowser is one of the most powerful nintendo villains being able to carry entire islands and even surviving a black hole and super nova, one of the most powerful forces in the entire universe.
@@IsabellaCV Mario did, so you expect his eternal frienemy to be able to as well.
@@igorPatritrov Bowser is one tough mf, no wonder he always comes back every single time.
@@igorPatritrov true, except for the super nova.
The whole universe got resetted at the end of Mario Galaxy 1, but he is still though af
I was worried at first that this would be covering the exact same ground as Ceave Gaming's video about the Odyssey bosses 2 years ago, glad that wasn't the case. Ceave talked more about the Broodals and the implementation of a higher skill ceiling for speed- and challenge-seeking players, whereas Doc here is more focused on the aesthetics of the Kingdoms' native bosses, as well as the overall "Odyssey" itself.
Anyone remember when Mario faced a Dark Souls boss? I do.
"I'm fired aren't I?"
"No, you genius! We're gonna make you head creative designer."
Oh! So that’s how they designed 3d land’s levels
I think my favorite part of new donk city is that it means in a world of giant monsters and weird creatures, the strangest thing imaginable is just... a normal city with regular people. It’s just so funny to me that in the super cartoony mario world there’s just New York but with goomba.
I wanted to add the “end battle” final part, where the game goes stylistically different again and plays guitar music and has a singer! That was also very different style for a Mario game, but fit in really well.
IKR, I almost felt like I'd stumbled into a Sonic game at that point
The Broodal fights were fine, until I had to fight them repeatedly. The story-based fights were definitely where the fun was at.
I’d love a follow-up video where you talk about how to go about designing thematically-fitting bosses for the other kingdoms that didn’t get a unique boss. I’d love to see a Shiveria boss. Maybe some massive vessel that has you use the Shiverian capture to bounce on exposed points or something.
i really hope that if/when we get mario odyssey 2 we revisit the ruined kingdom and get some more background on the history of the kingdom. Even if it's the only reference to the first game I just want to know how a kingdom like that came to be in the mushroom world
This video was absolutely incredible and greatly put together, plus I always love me some mario odyssey videos
Hi Odyssey!
Mario may be far from home
But there was no time he was farther from home than minecraft; the way home
a man of culture i see
Respect, from the future
gr
Amazing video, I really like it when someone appreciates all the little design choices which Nintendo makes in a game
I love your videos, I always learn something new and I get a new perspective of a certain theme, I have a list with a ton of videos about game design and almost every video of yours is in that list.
I don't know I think Mario games usually have bosses that are thematically consistent with the stages they reside in. It seems like the enhanced plot of Super Mario Odyssey is doing most of the heavy lifting. I'm not generally a fan of Mario bosses because of their lack of difficulty, the waiting for them to be vulnerable, and repetitive nature but my favorite in recent memory was Ghostly Galaxy's Bouldergeist.
Honestly, it’s okay that Mario’s bosses are not the most difficult thing. Mario is known for being accessible and fun. There are other tranches with ramped up difficulty to play if that’s your thing, but I never played Mario looking for something brutally challenging. I always have fun though.
When I opened this video, I thought I’d really disagree with you. And I still do in some ways, BUT I agree with almost all of what you said here about narrative and art style.
This video helped me appreciate aspects of the boss design outside of gameplay. I hope I apply what you said about thematic contrast and world cohesion. ~
That being said, I still think the gameplay is very very very lacking. It was depressing to have such easy, linear boss battles for most of the game. Though for some of them, the hype of the narrative and theming made up for it. And also some had good gameplay, too.
Makes the game much more accessible to newcomers though.
wariolandgoldpiramid Yeah, but I wish the game found a different solution to that problem, to save the experience for the majority of players that aren’t beginners.
Mario games are cool because of the movements/levels, not because of the bosses.
They're there because "it's what people expect", i would even say.
BUT i have to agree that some of these are better that the classic "hit it in the head", which there is plenty of even in this game.
@@PurpleFreezerPage At least there were the rematches.
Blinking Berry I only played some of those. I wish there wasn’t 20 hours of “easy game” before “challenging game”, but that’s kinda Nintendo’s game difficulty style. Either that, or secrets you find throughout the game.
"I'm fired aren't I?" LOL! Dude that is pretty on point.
I think it's interesting you didn't mention much of the Broodal fights. Did you consider them mid-bosses?
I always thought it was interesting how they always started off the kingdoms and each kingdom had a Broodal fight, that's more like a traditional Mario Boss fight, and then the local boss, that took advantage of the transformation. I think the chapel and the ending works so well because they mixed both types of fight into the full ending sequence
Yes I consider them minibosses and they tend to be placed in such a way, usually in the middle of the critical path except for the Lake Kingdom. I think most of them are better than the Koopalings in both their concept and mechanical design but the reasons behind that have already been discussed in detail in Ceave Gaming's video on them so we didn't want to be too derivative of that.
You might've noticed that we also didn't discuss Madame Brood because she's kind of a weak link compared to the other major bosses. She kind of just shows up and the game doesn't do much to integrate her into the world. Her fight's also very simplistic.
@@DesignDoc She's also actually one of the Broodals as shown by the fact that you refight her on the Dark Side of the Moon along with the rest of the Broodals.
Oh she’s clearly connected but the game doesn’t really do anything with that connection. Her placement in the game just feels random.
She’s meant to be the leader of the broodals - the lady in charge of the wedding plan. Which makes it fitting that she’s the first and last broodal (and the only that actively uses the capture mechanic). But it’s hard to stabblish or enhance that connection when you don’t see her interacting with anyone else. She should’ve been the head of the broodal robot and bossing the rest of the broodals around at least
9:55 "kingdo" - editing error?
Dang. Yes. Tunnel vision strikes again.
The text formatting was edited later on and I forgot to adjust the mask along with it.
Kingdo has to become a real word.
I didnt think i could love this game even more, but you managed it!
That is why I like this kind of videos. It really opens world view about what I play.
You just reminded to me why I love this game so much, amazing video
Something else which is good is how bosses clearly ARE scripted, but they don't FEEL scripted...
There's no random battles over a highly convenient lava pool to dunk the bad guy in, and if they'd chosen to fight Mario anywhere else they'd be invincible...
It feels more like a battle of wits of you the player, against the boss' in-universe plans, instead of against the gamey level design. It feels way more immersive.
----
An example of what I mean, not from Mario but from Crash Bandicoot 3... In the N.Tropy fight he's on a far away platform shooting lazers at crash from where you can't reach him. But then when he runs out of lazers and needs to recharge, his final 'attack' is.... to summon a bunch of platforms for Crash to reach him with (It would have been so much easier to dismiss as a concept if for example N.Tropy was using his power to keep the platforms away, and thus they come back when he needs to recharge).
Ahhh what a great nostalgia trip back to Mario Odyssey...
I didnt know oddysey was a thing back in the 90s
@@punaht7736 Nostalgia trip to 2 years ago :)
The thing I'm suprised you didn't mention is that Knucklotec feels like his own thing as well. The game really makes him feel like an ancient guardian, and not just "another dude". Even down to details of his face showing fear when you capture his fists, due to the fact that capturing most likely wasn't around in his time.
Great video as usual ! The bosses and the universe building are indeed the high point of the game, but I really think the difficulty balance is terrible (same issue I had with all games since Super Mario 3D Land). Most of the game alternates between easy and too easy and then suddenly once you beat the game you get to the dark side, the mushroom kingdom and the hidden challenges that mostly alternate between hard and hardcore. During the main run of the game, there are very few parts that are challenging but fair, like the dragon fight or some parts of the japanese castle themed planet ; that's especially grating during the snow, lost and lake kingdoms that don't have enough wonders and side fun to make up for the feeling of running through the game with no hurdles.
Your videos should get a million more views! They are so polished, well explained and entraining!
"[Knucklotec] was the first boss that the design team had created"
Ah yes, I remember when they first teased his design back in the 90s
Good idea, I waited for that for long, but please more videos about pixel platformer level design, please!
This game is so good, I played it with my little brother watching and it was definitely a “journey with taking”
Omg I've never played this game and seeing the Ruin Dragon literally made me yell "what?!" Mario really can be amazing.
When I got to the Ruined Kingdom I remember being like "what is happening!"
it's strange how having bosses that don't work for Bowser actually makes Bowser have a stronger presence, plus I think it makes the fights with Bowser's mooks feel more special since every random boss you fight isn't on Bowser's payroll.
i love these videos im not a game designer but videos like this make me really interested in getting into game design. keep up the good work
You can shoot the wiggler's attacks?! What?
"Iconic isn't best" I literally only remembered the bunnies which repeated the same pattern too much, then saw the craziest ones and was like "ohh THOSE existed"
11:03
They help make the ENDGAME feel like Mario is very FAR FROM HOME
I should have watched the 100% category of Odyssey too. I missed some of these bosses! The flower thing and the octopus are a first time for me (i don't own the game)
Super-Mario: Far from Home
😂
I watched every single one of your videos, I love them. I'm also extra appreciative that you take the time to sub them as well.
Some New Donk City designs might have been aptly inspired by city stages from Donkey Kong (GB).
mario odyssey is my top favorite mario game, absolutely amazing
I love this game so much
In summary:
Make a boss that suits your level design
Don't be afraid in your level design creativity
Ensure you have a unique mechanic that makes your boss battles different each time
Odyssey's bosses really felt fresh. ...except for Bowser. His fights were so uninteresting. Especially the final fight was weak. But ruined kingdom was great.
12:00 I see what you did there ;)
Bosses that fit in the world? Oh you mean what every other decent game has been doing for decades
I lost count of all the puns mentioned.
I think the problem with people critiquing the game is that they ignore it’s MEANT to introduce people to video games, because it’s meant for little kids without skill, and could easily be the first game they ever play
I have a nearly 100% save file that I'm debating deleting to replay this game. It's such a great game
You could just create an extra switch account for it. That's what I do with BoTW. I think you could also create a new file through the options iirc, it's kinda buried though.
5:24
Isnt it usually three step?
Amazing!
I hope skill share doesn’t die out by the time I graduate and actually have a paying job
"This ain't Yoshi!"
*shows Hooktail*
Me: *confused screams*
I think thats the point lol, since Hooktail is a dragon who looks like a yoshi
@@cannonfodder4000 I know; I was trying to be funny.
Though I don't see how Hooktail looks even remotely like a Yoshi...
@@shinigamimiroku3723 The head's shape is similar to that of a yoshi, just with big nostrils and antenna. It even has the white belly/cheeks thing.
Indeed
What is it with Nintendo and that same "Knucklotec" boss design? They use it in many games. Not just Mario. Aside from it being in Mario 64 (As shown) and Odyssey, it was also in Zelda. It was in Wind Waker as the boss of the Tower of the Gods. Even a bunch of 2D Nintendo games use the same sort of idea of a head with two hands. Donkey Kong '94 had it as the final boss. Then it was reused in Donkey Kong Country Returns. (Final boss Tiki Tong. Yes I know it's not Nintendo) Heck, even other non-Nintendo games use it like Super Meat Boy. (The boss of Hell, Little Horn) Both the 2D and 3D versions of this boss are used so often. Is there a term for this kind of boss style? When I see boss battles I just see mechanics and not the sprites or models over them. I see it as two solid objects that the player needs to avoid or defeat or a large "head" object in the middle that also needs to be defeated. And it's used a lot.
Guess it lets them depict something huge and mobile without going crazy on the polygons, textures, or animation.
Also Kirby Super Star in the mystery cave, where it's even got the same aesthetic theme of aztec-ish
I guess it's because it's such a simple design that can be changed so much to fit the theme of the level/game. It's also pretty much a staple of Nintendo games at this point, like the 3-hit rule, Mario making its way into other games in *some* form or another, and the like. Although Knucklotec is just Olmec from Spelunky, except icy instead of gold, so even if it's super simple of a design to change, it's still easy to make generic or like another. Bongo Bongo is the only Nintendo one that''s *just* far enough away to make it unique among Nintendo games if I were to guess
Also Ocarina of Time, the Shadow Temple's boss fight
hand-eye coordination
I don't know if I love or hate the fact the Bowser Fights are identical but not quite.
Like fight one is three hits with Bowser having extra moves to prevent the barrage of punches.
Fight two Is the same, except his pattern starts on phase two of the previous.
And the final fight starts on the final phase of the previous, so on each one you feel like you're making progress towards his full power..... Except it's always the same fight, which is exactly the issue with Mario Bosses.
I wonder if you have any thoughts about all those open worldish/minecraft-ey RPG adventure type games like Conan or 7 days to die, why theyre all essentially the same mechanics in every game (just wearing different wigs) and yet some of them are so much more compelling than others?
Maybe I'm biased, but i really got into the idea of 7 days to die. All the crafting and cooking, scavenging for scraps and bulding a safehouse... i love it. Played a lot of hours of it just in the alpha because it was fun for me. Then Conan, arguably the same game just with less petrol powered machines and i couldn't have found the experience more tedious and boring if i tried. I even made my lady naked with massive boobs (one thing Conan does better than any other game) and i still lost interest after only 8 or so hours.
In both games i never really knew what my primary goal was. If anything, Conan had the more coherent plot path and story behind it. Both had survival aspects and heaps of cool stuff to work towards making but one just resonated so much more.
I guess what im really asking is: what makes a tech tree "good" or "engaging"?
What makes us feel like we want to reach the end of a tech tree? Is it to do with the difficulty of resource acquisition, the kinds of tech you can build up to and what it can do, the visual design of the game (and how much we like that) or is it more tied to how the mechanics feel, or whether there is a multiplayer aspect? is it all these things?
Sorry for the rambling. Just something ive wondered for a while is why sometimes i go nuts for these games (when i first got minecraft i felt like a kid at a candy store with all the stuff i wanted to do) and other times im completely uninterested and thats a fairly wide discrepancy for games that are so similar.
Alright, now make a video about the moon system and how flawed it is.
I think you are the first person ever who enjoys those freaking wedding rabbits 😂
I was so glad to finally get some new and interesting boss characters!!
@@garfreeek Every 3D Mario game introduced new bosses?
Very good
Galaxy's bosses are better than sunshine's.
I'd agree that Odyssey did a fantastic job of integrating the bosses into the game's world and narrative, but in terms of design, I didn't think they were that innovative. Some were good, like the broodal mech in Bowser's kingdom, but most felt like every other boss battle in past 3D Mario games. Not that that's a bad thing; the boss fights in Odyssey are still fun, but I wouldn't characterize them
as a "step-up".
However, in the broodal's case, they are easy to beat but have built in challenges which let you skip defense phases. You're right for most of the other bosses though - most of them don't have skippable phases
Ruined dragon is just a dark souls boss
So basically if Mario was Sora?
doc wdyt about drakengard 3 final boss?
Haha, perfect *cap* on the story.
LiKe If YoU gOt ThE jOkE
... I don't get it.
Morgan with an Eevee You see, the joke is that it’s a cap on the *story*.
Because this is a Mario game with a story!
@@MHSchonberg Aww, that's it! Thanks a million, never would have got it otherwise.
@@morganwithaneevee246 I believe it's a pun about cappy.
Mario: Far From Home
Funny that these kingdoms on the same planet are more different from each other than Super Paper Mario's other dimensions
Luigi's Mansion please! 😊
The bosses are the only thing I remember from Odyssey... Not my favorite 3D Mario game for sure.
the ruined kingdom made me want a mario and dark souls cross over tbh
Good boss design, but I wish they'd drop the "3 hit rule". Just because it's for kids doesn't it should be brain dead.
I dont think 3 hit rule is brain-dead. It's rather elegant and in-tone with the universe: Mario powered up usually takes three hits to die. Most regular enemies die in one or two. I wouldn't mind the 3-hit rule if there was more pattern variations and distinctions between each hit. Often hits 1-2 or 2-3 keep the same pattern; If you're doing three hits, might as well have it be 3 patterns
You want bosses to require _how many_ hits?
@@wariolandgoldpiramid Depends on the boss tbh. Anywhere between 6-10 hits would be good though. For comparison sake, I'd say to check out a hat in time to get an idea of what I'd like bosses for 3d platformers to be more like in future games.
@@Hugop_arts I can respect variety. Maybe have each phase use a variety cappy transformations just to keep things fresh? This is also a problem Zelda struggled with for years, but then botw happened.
@@OhayouEdboy I was hesitant of your idea at first, then I remembered how well the boss health bars worked in Wario Land 4.
If it doesn't take too much time to get a hit on the boss, and you can damage him multiple times during one phase, it can surely work.
The boss fights in Odyssey were kind of lame imo.
I had much more fun in the Galaxy bossfights
Nah
@@cannonfodder4000 Is there a particular reason why you commented the same thing twice?
@@ilmu011 Dunno wasnt me, deleted the duplicate lol
@@cannonfodder4000 Ok, let me elaborate, I don't actually think all the bosses in Odyssey suck, design-wise some of them are mega awesome imo, like the Mecha Wiggler or the Lord of Lightning, which look like they are straight out of Metal Gear Solid or Bayonetta. The main reason I disliked Odyssey's bossfights though is because the pacing of the fights is much more slower and the events seem to stretch out longer than they should, while nothing is happening really. I felt less challenged more than chored to get over it. And the biggest thing I hate about Odyssey's bosses are the broodals, which make up approximately half of all boss fights. They are just one simple character copy and pasted 4 times and thrown into an empty uninspired arena and then you have to fight them thrice throughout the entire game. Big no from me. Also the boss fights feel really easy this time. It's like he's doing that move okay jump once to dodge then jump on his head, repeat twice, gone. Take that in contrary to a boss like Gobblegut, who you encounter so early and is moderately hard, where you have to precisely watch his movement to dodge him and deliver a strike. The Galaxy Series was just better at designing bosses imo
“That ain’t Yoshi” either. Lol
Hmm, I was expecting a mechanical/gameplay analysis, not a narrative analysis.
Oh well.
Come on though what was up with the cloud kingdom that was a little disappointing. I know how the game is supposed to signify you being far from home but it’s clouds! Mario goes to a sky world in nearly every game and you couldn’t even give one of the og world themes a full kingdom!?
Kingdo
I usually dislike Mario bosses. Boom Boom is not only my least favorite Mario character, but possibly my least favorite video game character ever. He's so aggressively uninteresting and lazy in every way. I think less of every game he shows up in. He's easier than every Mario enemy besides Goombas and he hasn't changed at all since SUPER MARIO BROS 3 IN 1988! He was lazy, BS game design then, and it's only gotten worse with time.
The only bosses that are good are the Mario and Luigi rpg bosses and bosses from sunshine galaxy und 2.
Eh, somewhat? The rabbits were really underwhelming.
Why do these types of gaming channels only cover platforms?
Take a look at his other videos. He covers a lot more types of games.
Wait what i thought odyssey had shit bosses
I feel like the dragon fight is the best one in the game, but the final boss is the least fun because of how unoriginal it is. I feel like it should have had a second phase or something
Yeah, the fight against the cube was really lackluster.
Still not better than galaxy
Galaxy is overrated
I disagree about the bosses being any more story relevant this time around.
Not grand story, but mini stories within each kingdom.
From a Mario fan gamer.... this game makes NO SENSE to me.
Too bad moon kingdom is horrible and bowser kingdom looks like it belonged to more linear mario 3d games
The galaxy games are mostly linear by design
Who cares? Linear levels are more content packed and well designed anyway
I’m shocked to see that with time, this game seems to be viewed almost as favorably as Mario 64. I personally hated pretty much everything about this game; side characters, music, the design ascetic in most levels, the level unlocking system, the story, and that hat! Controls were good though, along with game physics, graphics, and enemy design, but that’s not enough to get around the complainants.
I knew a bunch of people that also played it and I don’t think a single one of them finished the game. They all WANTED to like it but in the end most just didn’t have fun. Some kept at it longer than others insisting it was fun before realizing hours in they just aren’t into it. One kept saying “One more world. It will be fun on the next one.” And finally quit having wasted about 15 hours game play that was everything but fun.
Weirdly, this video communicates all the themes and intentions about a thousand times better than the actual game.
For me the levels _did_ feel like a random assortment of stuff. Almost as if they were designed for completely different games, or collected from half a dozen or so different cutting room floors.
The bosses felt bland and cliched. I was quickly jaded by the rabbits in particular, and the giant head with flying hands started the whole thing off on the completely wrong foot. "Here's the brand new Mario, the next killer app after the disappointing BotW, this is why you bought a Switch after all. Also, here is the same boss from Mario 64."
And the Bowser battle(s) were absurdly disappointing. Off the top of my head, probably the only worse one in the whole series is in Sunshine. Though I may be forgetting about the more forgettable ones, of course... In any case though, the final battle just was a distillation of how bland, gimmicky, and repetitive the whole game was.
I remember how much of the game felt like a chore, and the bosses were no exception.
After I got 100% (I'm that kind of guy), I was so relieved. I haven't touched the game since, and just thinking off it gives me a sinking feeling in my stomach.
Quite honestly, I was surprised that this video was not sponsored by Nintendo.
Please don't take this the wrong way, I found your channel only a few days ago, and am binging it because I really enjoy your insights. But it is baffling to me how any aspect of Odyssey is getting this much praise.
i disagree a lot, i'd even say this is.. a bad game
Really, why so? Odyssey deemed to be a pretty great return to form of the sandbox collectathon imo
@@Aleks-hp8pr because it's immensely boring, the moons are a literal waste of time, there's way too many moons and the game literally fucks you over if you try to explore before finishing said kingdom because new stuff appears after and you gotta explore everything again. The bosses are as basic as it gets, dodge jump and sometimes use the cap. Not sure why I even bothered trying it out tho, I never liked mario games, they bore me to death
@@rubenbrito4166 if you never liked Mario games then why are you even on this video?
@@redtiger5586 because I played the game and wanna see what others think about it, to think only people who like it can watch this kind of stuff and reviews is pure stupidity
@@rubenbrito4166 While you may not like this game, 18.99 million sales of it proves that tons of people excluding you are enjoying it. So stop being a party pooper and go enjoy something you prefer.
Mario odyssey is a bad game
Facts. Sonic Forces is a bad game.
All Mario bosses suck and are terrible and take no thinking or extra effort to create. Super Mario Odyssey does not fix this issue because it's a 3D game. Thats the biggest flaw in that game. Mario should have always stayed 2D. But have better bosses. Typing out this comment makes me think Mario is the most overrated franchise in history. There's no good boss fights unless you're playing hacks of Super Mario World, which should be the only new Mario games you should be playing really
Awful take. Staying in 2D would have led to stagnation and putting restrictions on what the games could do. There's a reason as to why a lot of people were getting tired of the New Super Mario Bros formula.
@@Leee275 Platformers in general should be 2D, they beat the everliving shit out of 3D Platformers. There's actually more variety in what you can do and costs less money to make.
@@Leee275 And you're wrong about people getting sick of super Mario because super Mario World is literally one of the most hacked game, there's tens of thousands of fan made games and many of them are better than Nintendo could ever dream of making and do stuff that Nintendo doesn't do or won't do
@@johnnyslokes2712 I said the *New* Super Mario Bros series specifically.
And I don't even have to explain why the 3D perspective opens possibilities up, it's not about them being better or worse, it's about trying something new.
@@Leee275 You actually do have to explain because their 3D games are severely outclassed compared to some amateur fan games I've played, they are better than anything Nintendo could ever dream of making