Starfield - Tracker's Alliance - June DLC - How I learned to stop Worrying and Love DLC
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.ค. 2024
- I'm heading to Starbucks for coffee. I've heard it's considerably quieter than Starfield is this week.
"Of course, the whole point of a Doomsday Machine is lost, if you keep it a *secret*! Why didn't you tell the world, EH?"
0:00 Start
0:53 Oscar Wilde quote for Starfield Fans
3:01 Inflation Adjusted Historical Pricing on Bethesda Titles
7:30 Fallout 4 DLC for Comparison - Faaah Hahhbaah?
11:10 Starfield Mod Volume at NexusMods
13:29 They've sold $2.7M worth of Tracker's Alliance? (also unlimited storage anywhere)
19:28 Observatory tour and Summary (no snacks allowed in near the telescope please)
20:27 Why Kineer isn't going to see Garfield (cost of movies as a per hour rate)
24:49 Building a Treasure Chest on my Ship
25:00 Everything included in Tracker's Alliance (so far) - 1.75 hours+
Tracker's Alliance Let's Plays
Initiation - Part 1 - Scanning Akila City
• Starfield - Trackers ...
Initiation - Part 2 - Chop Shop Raid
• Starfield - Trackers ...
Vulture - Part 1 - Doxxing the Vulture
• Starfield - Trackers ...
Vulture - Part 2 - Three Ways to Die
• Starfield - Trackers ...
#starfield #bethesda - เกม
The infamous horse armor. Thanks for telling me about the Ancient Mariner Module, I'll have to get that. I already have the Trackers Alliance DLC
It's ironic I learned to 'live within my storage means' for the past 9 months, but now I can take my 'loot goblin' game to an entirely new level. Bottomless storage on ships is nice.
@@kineer it's a cheat.
@@Krutilator What's the difference, it's a single-player game, if it's convenient for the player, so why not?
A weeks is nothing for Mod Development, I cant' wait to see what comes out months...years from now.
It's gone from 50 creations to over 500 in that time and I strongly believe it's still ramping up. In the interview today, Todd Howard expressed very strong support for the creator community.
Agreed, And considering there are no tutorials, Documentations etc. The modding community is essentially at this stage figuring it out as they go along.
I watch Creation Kit streams on Twitch etc and many folks on there haven't even touched many of the tools.
I knew it from day one that this game has so much potential and real estate avaliable for modmakers.
I haven't been able to get alot of mods to work, like the imperial inventory, or the one handed shooting animation stuff. I don't understand what dynamic boostpacks does, nothing seems to change.
Thanks! I had initially passed on the Mariner Hab, but Unlimited storage is Unlimited storage ❤
Great! Happy hoarding!
I Love Starfield, I bought the Deluxe Edition and do not regret it. I personally would have paid for the Vulture QUEST but opted to use my Free Credits to buy this first piece. In the future i am sure i Will buy other content additions.
The use of included credits is a good point. That made the decision easier on many of us.
In the "already enjoys Starfield" camp, this is an easier decision and it's easier to see through the flack being thrown by the "less enthusiastic" players (or trolls).
I bought the vulture dlc after watching your videos about it. I came to the conclusion that it looked like fun ( it was ) and $7 wasn't that much at all. When I compare that to what I have spent on Call of Duty/Warzone over the years (and I didn't mind spending that money), well it's a non contest really. Thank you for your content, I greatly appreciate it.
Glad it's helpful Clynt. I didn't go back into my previous spending (WoW anyone?), but I'm with you on that recognition about the past.
I've spent more but it's all been fun. I just try to stay out of the drama-club these days and keep it in perspective.
Thanks for watching!
I am currently playing the Starfield with Game Pass. Iam actually considering buying the full game because I truly feel it's worth it
I've purchased duplicate games on several occasions and it can make a lot of sense.
I remember buying a second Elite Dangerous license because their system only allows (allowed?) one save per account. I was really into that for a while. :)
I have a separate Steam account with a few other duplicate games. I have family members I only see on holidays and we've been able to play together. I set them up on my laptop and I use my Steam Deck. It's a blast.
Once NMS went on sale, I picked up another license of that. I've helped bootstrap friends and family so they start with a little cash. I also essentially do my own version of New Game+ on NMS so I can start a new play without having to grind cash.
A subscriber suggested I pick up an Xbox for Starfield and I'll do that soon. I will happily pick up another copy of Starfield for that or just do Game Pass so I have access to more titles.
That new Xbox might be for a slightly different reason, because I create game content, but ... let's be honest ... a lot of that is because I love games and prioritize it over a lot of things.
"Oh no! Dont' make me buy a new Xbox!" lol
Overall, the money I save by not being ... let's say ... a golfer is staggering.
I love supporting gaming, sharing the fun, and that includes supporting mod creators AND companies that make good games.
Bethesda's impact on gaming is meaningful and positive.
Thanks for watching and commenting!
I like the way you describe these things and i bought this dlc and have enjoyed it, I am playing with a considerable amount of mods presently, on ng+6 and just hit Level 171 a short time ago.
That's great to hear (about the mods too). I really enjoy this point in NG+ (about mid way to 10) and am only a few levels behind you at this point. Thanks for watching!
I really appreciate your take on it. We are all free to choose how we want to play this game and that is a great thing. I enjoyed both Tracker missions and my preference is to use achievement friendly stuff for now. Other's are going to town on all the stuff and having fun, as they should. There's too much trolling around this game and it's unfair. If $7 is too much, I feel bad for some of these people when their doordash shows up.
Thanks! I have a short update scheduled for the morning with highlights from the Todd Howard interview Sunday (Mr. Matty Plays if you want to watch the whole thing).
He discusses the Tracker's Alliance DLC controversy. I think they fully intended to charge for some of the core content and he says they added the quest late as something they thought would be received well. They were "going the extra mile" for us. I do think they were surprised at the reaction, but I also think the cost part was always in the plan.
Spot on with doordash.
Excelente analysis. I agree with you.
Interesting , Thank You. A reminder if you want achevements No creation club. There may be a way on the Pc. We must also Remember it is a game , We choose
True, as I read it there are only a few 'achievement friendly' mods (Bethesda only). That might be a work-in progress one.
1400 hours !!!! & i felt weird for playing it for 1500 hours.😮💨
Don't worry at all. There are subscribers here that are well beyond that. I remind myself, it's always good to go outside and see the real sun though. :)
@@kineer So True,
I'm one of those random outliers who didn't need stats to understand that starfield was GREAT bang for buck entertainment day one,
but still, this was a fascinating watch/listen & (adjusted for inflation of course) confirms what i already knew! 😂
Glad to hear it!
How much drama can I buy for $7? sounds like a good Jeopardy category.
It is all optional. Mod or not mod, pay or not pay, do you still want achievements or is just having fun in a single player game more important in the long run.
Thanks for this video.
I do think some people 'borrow concerns/fears' from the live-service or multiplayer games and carry them into single player. Ultimately, in a single player how you play is and should be 100% up to you. The devs give you a sandbox, framework, environment and if you can have fun with it, you are winning.
Oh damn i just got to the chart. Mind, blown....
DO NOT GET The Enforcer. Causes an no audio bug and the weapons only comes as base damage level. And there is 4 guns which need to be found in the world. By the time youd find them you will definitely have leveled past where they will be useful. Basically a wall decoration
Was that one also causing sound problems?
@kineer yes the audi bug can be fixed by going into creations disabling all re start, re enable. Some other mods were doing the same thing. But even with audio solved i found the guns for them be doing 27 damage. Not going to be much help a level 103. The paid mods seem to have the most problems.
I read that other (non-gun) related mods had the same issue. Always a bit of 'fog of war' at the start of new features. Unclear what's really causing it, who/what fixes it. Glad you have a solution for that part.
@kineer best way to figure it out is to remove all and re install one at a time. G Usually if there is a problem its shows at right away but i usually try to run each mod through whatever features it changes. Also you have mods conflictling where individually are fine but both change the same file or something. Its alot for some people to get their head around.
All I have is the Vulture creation club mod. And have lost some sound (engine and ship sounds in space).
I wanna start this with i like that you actually reviewed the Vulture semi fairly as opposed to most other people who only judged price alone. you are the only one I have found who discussed that it does have multiple endings so I am adding you to my subsribe. In your diagram you forgot to cross reference the increase in game sells obivian sold like 4.7 million copies in the first year netting a sale of 283 million dollars and netting a profit of about 160 million dollars while fallout 4 sold like 12 million copies netting 720 million dollars at a profit of about 570 million dollars. and this does not factor in continued sells DLC merch or anything else this is just first year sales. Now the biggest games today are selling many times more then this even selling hundreds of millions of copies but bethesda has been suffering a quality drop in the years since they have started trying to cash in on the paid mods. The trackers alliance was in the base game and felt like it was cut out we theorized at launch they cut out bounty hunting to nickel and dime us later. The vulture kinda confirs this theory. I am not opposed to DLC or paid mods in principle but bethesda has always priced their mods significantly above what I perceive as a fair price for this DLC I would think 2 maybe 3 dollars tops would be fair. you are also averaging it flawed you are adding it to the overall instead of calculating what it adds this is a 1 mission per playthrough addition to a 300 hour game it adds about 30 min to the game. which values it at .1 percent increase to game length a 70 dollar game you are paying 10% of the price to add 0.1% to the game.
Todd Howard stated over the weekend that Starfield had 14M players. Not much different than earlier titles. We have to assume a portion of their revenue is cut from Xbox subscriptions as well, but I don't believe they price DLC based on revenue that way.
Financially well-managed companies rarely count up their profits on past sales and then discount future projects because they "had a little extra left over from last time." Don't get me wrong, they can make investment decisions, but it seem unlikely they'd do that when pricing DLC.
All of that, especially now in a publicly traded company will be handled relatively uniformly. Projects and future investments will likely be judged on their compartmentalized cost to finance, expected revenues and profits. Pricing will follow that plan and products will be priced to the market to fit within historical approaches and compared to the current competitive landscape. I also reject arguments that a cost-up approach is employed. I see that from others, typically when people like to claim that voice actors justify higher mod prices. Strangely consistent mantra in the mod market, but unlikely to have a significant impact outside of anecdotal justifications to people that aren't likely to really get into the pricing mechanism. Cost up is also easy to understand. It's just not a strategy I've seen any software companies use. Value, value, value.
You lost me when you mentioned how you feel about it and speculation about content someone theorized was cut. The game was offered for sale and we bought it as it the day we traded cash for a download. There weren't any IOUs issued for missing pieces. No offense intended, but what you described sounded like confirmation bias as well. You theorized it was A, then you saw B which fit the story you already had, so you connect them up. Maybe not that at all.
Also, not to be dismissive, but I am trying to avoid imaginary future events, past grievances, and focus on the value offered in June and any coupled price.
I also don't follow the final approach. I can't really tell why you think $2-3 is fair, why it's a 300 hour game, or why you think the Tracker's Alliance adds 30 minutes to the game. None of those fit any model I have and they aren't empirically accepted data for the game.
If we want to take minimal values, HLTB puts Starfield at 23.5 hours and there are 1.75 hours of just quests in the DLC (or 7.4%). So that gives us a value of 7.4% of $70 or closer to $5.42 in 2024 dollars. If I were pricing something like this, I might start with the number as a ballpark and then start layering in what the weapons, armor, attire could be valued at as well. Again, we're moving right past $7 easily for Tracker's Alliance feature as a whole. I still look at it an can see someone say, let's just put the core TA content in the drop and package the rest as an optional DLC. "All our costs are covered and it's a reasonable value."
It's all interesting discussion but no one outside of Bethesda can do much more than look for comparable properties and offerings.
Todd Howard stated in the Matty interview they used pricing approaches that they had used in the past with other games. I don't have a reason to disbelieve that on the surface and since the pricing is completely in line with multiple properties over almost two decades, the issue is closed for me personally.
I also don't start from a position that he's lying in public. Believe it or not, but if at some point BGS or Microsoft Games has an impact on stock price and it's tied to someone in his position making false public statements, there are real consequences. Hard to believe he'd be doing that over something like this.
Interesting stuff though. Thanks for watching and commenting.
I might be getting to the end of this discussion across the board, but am happy to have that be with a subscriber. Some people have been wandering in with some crazy stuff in their heads. Not you and I enjoyed it. :)
@@kineer Thank you for your detailed and thoughtful reply. I appreciate the discussion and your perspective on Bethesda's pricing strategy. You're right; financial decisions for game pricing and DLC are complex and often driven by more than just simple content length.
However, I believe there's a significant difference between the pricing of Bethesda's DLCs and their paid mods. While their DLCs are generally fair-priced and add substantial content to the games, paid mods often feel overpriced for the content they provide. When we look at value from a player's perspective, especially in games with such extensive playtimes like Skyrim or Fallout 4, adding a single quest or a few items as paid mods can seem minor compared to the base game's content.
To provide more context, Starfield, for example, takes approximately 146 hours to complete all main and side missions according to HowLongToBeat. I personally have nearly 300 hours in Starfield, completing all the quests in a playthrough, primarily played at launch. In comparison, Skyrim, with its extensive questlines and content, can take up to 300 hours for a completionist run. When a paid mod adds only 30 minutes of content for $7, the value proposition feels skewed, especially when compared to the base game priced at $70. This pricing model equates to paying 10% of the base game's cost for an addition that constitutes only about 0.2% of the total playtime.
Using average playtime statistics can be misleading since many players might rush through the game to reach higher-level New Game+ content, skipping side missions that provide substantial value and depth. According to Steam user reviews, many players have expressed frustration with the perceived lack of content in some paid mods compared to their cost, further emphasizing the need for fair pricing.
Moreover, it seems Bethesda might be comparing their pricing to free-to-play game cosmetics rather than focusing on the added value to the game. In free-to-play games, players often spend money on cosmetics and minor content additions, which is a different context compared to a full-priced game like Starfield. In such a game, players expect that paid additions will provide substantial value and enhance the gameplay experience proportionately.
I also understand your point about confirmation bias, and you're right; it's crucial to separate speculation from evidence. However, the perception that content is being cut to be sold later can create distrust among the community, which is something Bethesda and other companies should be mindful of. Transparency in development and pricing strategies can help mitigate these concerns.
As for Todd Howard's statements and the company's pricing approach, I don't doubt the complexities involved. Still, from a consumer's standpoint, it would be beneficial for companies to offer more transparency about how they price additional content. It would help build trust and perhaps even justify the costs better.
You mentioned that the pricing approach is uniform regardless of Game Pass, and that's an important point. The consistent pricing model for games both on and off Game Pass underscores that these decisions are made independently of subscription services, focusing instead on perceived value and market standards.
Thanks again for the engaging discussion. It's always valuable to have these conversations and hear different perspectives. Looking forward to more insightful content from you!
First I have to say how much appreciate the spacing and paragraphs! I may have to circle back to this just because of the level of detail, but in general will just add it's good for people to see different perspectives. You know never know if what you say or how you view something will resonate with others so sharing it is a good idea. Hope you have a great week.
❤Excellent reference❤
Glad you noticed and said something!
As someone that enjoyed Creation Club I can say the Ancient Mariner set is indeed overpriced when compared to CC content in same pricepoint ballpark.
When I thought the Ancient Mariner set was merely cosmetic items and a 2x2 hab, I thought the 1000 credits was high.
Once I saw the storage box, it seemed clearer what was being sold and I picked it up. I've not found a comparable item in Skyrim or Fallout 4 mods/DLC, but haven't looked much. Todd Howard said they sold this type of content before.
I dont think Plays means Downloads. I believe Downloads is a seperate number that creators have access to.
Plays I think is the number of times a user has loaded the game with the mod loaded
That would be fascinating. Then the count could be higher if active players bought a Creation vs. less frequent players.
I know the first time I went into the store, I grabbed all free Bethesda Creations immediately. I didn't come back to the others until later. Unfortunately the term "plays" is almost unsearchable given its more common use. :/
@@kineerlike searching for music by the british 70's rock band Free.
The answer is it is a value IF you value it. I feel these prices are a COMPLETE RIP OFF! IF it is worth it to you go for it. I for one will be sticking with only grabbing freebies when they become available.
This is a viable approach as well. You like, you buy. No like, no buy.
They need to add ability to review or at least thums up/down in creation club.
They could also generate some good will in the community woth sone sort of help/tutorial on using the mods load order ect. I do t have problems, but i have a background in troubleshooting and used mods in previous titles but I imagine there are children going crazy with mods and bricking the game. They shouldn't rely on the community and oeople looking for solutions once they encounter issues.
Good ideas. That storefront seems to be pretty basic and reminds me Bethesda is primarily developing installable software and not web apps.
I'm ok with basic for now because I'm hoping no one from the Microsoft mother-ship steps in to "help" them and pulls them into any of their corporate structure.
Then every post will start with "Hello my name is Bob and I'm a certified Starfield customer support assistant. Have you rebooted your console?"
Ok, ok, I'm joking. Well maybe not.
Thanks for watching and commenting! :)
Not sure why you would include the free part in the calculations. You can do the calculations for the whole, but then you must subtract everything the free portion added, since people will get that anyway and play it without the second mission. You are basically assuming that everyone will buy The Vulture, which just isn't true. For example if I hadn't been given the 1,000 credits for the Premium edition I would not have got it. As things are now, I wish I hadn't gotten it. Because what is ADDED in mission two, is just not worth $7 IMO.
I don't assume everyone would pay, but I do assume everyone received the value from the Tracker's Alliance feature and Hannibal mission.
The controversy, if we can ignore the projection elements, then became one of value for content.
You are free to take a more pure financial transaction view, that is "There was no value unless I was required to pay for it."
At that point you could also step into the question closer and ask if a 45 minute mission (that couldn't exist in isolation without the broader feature set you've now excluded) has enough value for the specific financial transaction.
I find them inseparable really and could say, "Not sure how you can't include the first part in your value assessment."
I'll give you a very different analogy. Imagine a pizza restaurant that sells a medium pizza for $15 normally and drinks for $2.50 each. For two people to share a pizza and have drinks, they would expect to pay $20 (before tax/tip).
The restaurant decides to offer a special on a weekday night for dine-in customers. They will give away a medium free pizza, but charge $5 per drink. You and a friend could come into the restaurant and eat the pizza and then leave without ordering drinks.
You've received a $15 value for nothing. You could also pay $10 for two drinks, enjoy the drinks and the pizza (a $20 value on any other day) and leave.
You would have received $20 in value for $10 in payment.
You could also come in, accept the free pizza and then argue with the staff that drinks should only be $2.50 each.
Most people would almost intuitively recognize they were getting a $20 meal for $10. The only way I can imagine someone wouldn't is if:
1. They assumed the pizza suddenly had zero value because they weren't charged.
2. (or) they claimed they were due a pizza from a previous unsatisfied transaction.
Some would project into the future and worry that next week the price of drinks would go up to $5 for everyone all the time.
I hope that was helpful. It was somewhat amusing for me to describe.
The net effect is that value is for everything I received. The payment was one element.
Thanks for watching and commenting!
For me, being a Premium Edition owner, the Tracker's Alliance content was basically a free purchase with the $10 credit Bethesda gave us. It at least can be free, technically speaking. It was never announced as a benefit for purchasing the PE when it launched, not as far as I'm aware so I'm glad they thew us a little bone bc im not too sure if I'd buy this.
I also wonder how much of that $2.7 million was paid for out of the consumer's pocket and not from the $10 credit?
Yes, hard to tell. One of the nice things about buying a 'premium' edition is that you are identifiable and can receive 'rewards added later.'
I don't recall any discussion of 'creation credits' when I first purchased, but also acknowledge I could have glossed over it since the store was a future event.
Very interesting, thx for adding tongue discussion. I am still on the fence with how they basically gatekept a mission with „pay per view“ no matter the cost, but you had some well researched arguments against that way of thinking. I think it’s important that the discussion is there at all, it shows Bethesda that we are passionate about their game and want them to succeed, but also that we won’t simply take horse armour as a standard going forward
After the Todd Howard interview, I'm starting to see a double-edged sword issue.
Bethesda has a plausible reason to not give away content for free IF they are truly trying to establish a "content has real value" mindset that supports the mod creator community.
If I am cynical, I can assume this is simple greed on their part (or on their MSFT overlords). :)
If I take them at their word, they will support mod creators and I am 100% on board with that.
We'll see, eh?
th-cam.com/video/e9PdmhDji5o/w-d-xo.html
Thanks!
Thank you very much Henry! Always appreciate your comments and encouragement.
I've always been a firm believer that something is worth whatever you're willing to pay for it. When it comes to cost per hour, I definitely got my money's worth with Skyrim and Fallout 4. Especially Fallout 4. I bought all the DLC's and I would spend HOURS rebuilding my settlements. Wasteland workshop was my favorite by far. Some of these people will complain about anything. You could give them the game and all the DLC stuff for free, and they'd still gripe.
Single-player downloadable games are a treasure if they have good core game loops. Zero marginal cost per play is winning from the start.
Man that ingame filter looks soo bad
I've heard some compliments on the lighting in the HQ. Is that it?
As usual, your examination of the issue at hand, i.e., the manner in which pay-for mods were introduced in Starfield, brings to light some things I had not considered. When I saw Bethesda charging $7 for the second half of a 2 part quest, I was incensed because I viewed it as micro-transaction adjacent, and a way for them to test the waters in an if/then scenario. Also, I have a preconceived bias that says a DLC is an expansion, not just downloadable content. That is, a $7 expansion is way cheap, but an hour long, second part quest locked behind a paywall is something to be angry about. It is not the intrinsic cost of the item that is the problem, just the way it was approached.
It's not surprising in the broader gaming industry to have "trust issues." :) I'm with you on that. Without going into my own rant, there are live service games out there that deserve to be ... well, let's just leave it at that. It's a difficult thing to do well without truly ending up operating like low-rent a casino. Some of them aren't even trying.
Just scheduled my comments on the latest Todd Howard interview where he addresses the Tracker's Alliance DLC issue. You can hear his reaction in his own words and decide if he's being genuine or not. I'm cautiously optimistic going forward.