Is this a better version of Slapchop?!?!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 พ.ค. 2023
- www.youtube.com/@rollemifyoug...
in this video we take a look at the slapchop drybrushing method but in reverse! See if this is something that you think you can add to your miniature painting arsenal!!!
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imo the traditional "slap chop" giant here is much more realistic and believable looking. The difference in tones and smooth transitions between those tones across the skin and cloth makes it look way more natural to my eye.
I agree. I think a lot of it has to do with it having a flat look to it prior to paint and the white one having a satin paint and a gloss wash. When I revisit this it will certainly be done with flat colors and see what difference it makes.
For drybrushing, you need way less paint on your brush. I think your results would be different when comparing the two methods.
I zenithal in grey before I drybrush. I find it leads to smoother transitions.
Its fine if stark contrast is your intention though.
That’s my process too. Black primer. Zenithal in off white like wraithbone to establish mid tones and finish with pure white dry brush (brushing in top to down direction).
Yeah, that was my first reaction to, seemed like he was gray painting, not dry brushing with gray
I did something like this, since slapchop looks not great when used with yellow (I play Bad Moon Orks in 40k). For an AMAZING yellow, hit the mini with a solid white, and then use a very watered down red wash to get some pink into the recesses. This gives a nice rich orange in the shadowed areas instead of the hideous sort of greenish tint that you get from the gray showing through otherwise.
That’s really interesting I may have to give this a try! I was just talking to a friend (an iron hands player) yesterday on some of the difficulties of painting yellow. I told him I’d heard of people using pink to undercoat.
I've seen a bunch of people use magenta inks sprayed from underneath as a zenithal shadow undercoat and for both orks and some space marine chapters and it looked good with both green and yellow
I like the brighter color you get with the reverse. Maybe it is not grimdark realism, but vibrancy has a place in my fantasies, anyhow.
Nice vid. I've used this technique (oil chop or wash chop) a lot and one step to perform is that you can use some white spirits and clean up the excess wash by making a smooth sponge moist then brushing it over the model to make the raised edges even brighter. You can also try different colors of wash to match the major colors of the models, like using pink under yellow. This method also works really well if you want to air brush on contrast for super smoothness.
This reverse method has 2 major problems
1. Pooling
2. Missed spots- slapchop is ideal because missed spots will still be black, so it won't draw the eye.
I've been in the hobby for 40 years and have been using both methods the whole time. And I have found the white and black works well for small figures like halflings and dwarfs, also a brown will not have that cartoon look to it and tends to give a more natural look. But I like what you did keep going.🙏😇🇺🇸
Really interesting thank you. Yeah, like we mention in the video, I’ve slapchopped a couple hundred minis at this point but this was the first time I’ve tried the “chopslap” there’s certainly some room for other idea and methods to try. Thank you for the nice words of encouragement!
I do my Nurgle daemons in a beige base coat and then the heavy dry brush step in orgyn camo. I then tint with seraphim sepia. Been doing this style of painting for like 20 years though. The only thing slap chop did different was use contrast paints. I find it really crazy that so many people were not aware of this style of painting until the past year. I mean maybe they're just newer hobbyists? I remember seeing guys doing Undead armies back in the 80's using this method though... that's where I learned it from.
I wonder if pannel lining/pin striping will come back and someone will call it "shake weight!" or something :D ha ha ha ha.
A preferred method ive adopted is a mix of both. Prime dark gray, drybrush white, then wash black.
We’re going to be testing a few more methods here soon and this is pretty much one of them. I’m excited to see how it looks!
this is what Dana Howl does…zenithals then applies nuln oil to deep areas (doesnt splash enitire model)
Been doing that as one of my main styles for many years. Often with Payne's Gray, Burnt Umber, or a combination of the two for the dark wash over the white primer, varying by how warm or cold the main colors will be.
The slap chop figure looks better in so many ways. The color is richer, and the shading and shadows are more distinct, and look much nicer IMO.
I have to say how happy I was to find this video. Your set-up and painting desk looks exactly like mine. It was nice to see some else using the speed paints which I love. You have a very similar painting style.
Glad it was helpful! Yeah my painting desk is constantly a work in progress. I basically live in a tiny home so when it’s not painting time the desk is a catch all for stuff. Lol. Thank you for checking out the vid!
Interesting comparison! I grew up painting over a white prime using black lining, so this brought back memories. I just found your channel and have subscribed.
-John
Awesome! Glad to hear it thank you! I think I’ll be revisiting the technique again now that I’ve seen how it behaves a bit!
I've been undercoating with Wraith Bone and then shading with Army Painter Quidshade Strong Tone - pretty much the same as you have done here. So a big thumbs up from me. (then i mix my own "contrast/speed paints" using Vallejo Airbrush Flow Improver and Army Painter Quickshade Wash Mixing medium, to paint 1/72 WW2 miniatures for wargaming). Not going to win any awards but is pretty fast and good for the tabletop, imo.
Ive done the light primer then strong tone then paint on some of my deathguard to get the “pallid hands” color scheme. That was certainly an influence on this concept.
@@rollemifyougottem I'll have to google deathguard “pallid hands” 🙂
It's good to keep playing and experimenting. There's no single correct way to do any of this. Honestly, this would probably get a good effect if you primed in the bright grey, do a thin black wash and then a white drybrush.
To make it warmer use dark brown wash
Like others, I’ve been priming white, washing and staining the mid-90s. The key (for me) is following the wash with a white dry brush. It makes a subtle but huge difference, gives the stain/contrast something to cling to, etc. And my wash is flat, not satin or gloss. Great video.
Thank you! So before soeedpaints/contrast did you just use really thinned paints? Any specific kind?
@@rollemifyougottemJust thinned acrylics - Polly S and such - at about the consistency of milk. Thicker for brighter colors, a little less dense for darker ones.
@@MrWestphaliaI’ve used this “milk consistency” reference before. A friend of mine used it when showing me how to air brush the first time!
if you understand the goal of that painting method you will probably find several other methods achieving the same result.
Recesses are dark, surfaces are bright.
Using a bright primer then add a dark tone does exactly that
you can do this method with colours as well. I have been learning this style of painting from Tyler Mengel for years now. For instance his Nurgle Daemon recipe which starts off as a beige basecoat, and the heavy dry brush is done in ogryn camo, then the wash is seraphim sepia. Doing black and white gives a nice effect for some colours, but if you can work out a recipe using the colours you actually want to use (rather than B/W) it looks soooo much better.
I also done some Daemons with a black, white and grey base and then used washes on top, and I found without more work you had not enough transition between the light and dark. Using colours works so much better than B/W for this style. Maybe contrast paints have made this easier though, I am only familiar with using washes for this kind of painting.
I get the people using "slap chop" are probably newer painters though, so don't know this. This method has been around since WHFB in the 80's though, and it is actually way more advanced already, you just have to know where to look. Tyler Mengel is a great place to start, he's amazing at this style of painting.
Gotcha. Sounds similar to how I do my pox walkers. I randomly spray them with bone, necrotic flesh, white, and grey. Then hit them with the paints. It makes an interesting shades that I don’t have to really work for. Thank you for watching!
@@rollemifyougottem nice.
I have been doing this since long before contrast paint. However, I was doing this when priming to easier see all the details on the model. Also this provides less smooth highlights/shadows so it works better with normal paints that you later paint with normal layering imo.
Having experimented with slapchop and the wash method, i definitely prefer the wash method and i found its much faster than having to do 2 rounds of drybrushing and the result is also smoother i think. The new citadel nuln oil works really well for this purpose because it pulls hard from flat and raised areas.
How new is the new nuln oil? I got a pot of it years ago but have really only used it to grime up some death guard.
@@rollemifyougottem GW changed the recipe for their shades a year or two ago, at the same time as they released the second round of contrast paints.
Interesting, so probably since I’ve obtained mine. Do you know what the difference is between the old and the new?
@@rollemifyougottem Supposedly they have less of an overall tint and pool more in recesses to give more of a shade effect. I haven't tried them myself though.
Thanks again for your continued content and tutorials; Wondering if you may be continuing to use the "black wash" over "white primer" method? Any tricks/hints to keep the "black wash" in the recesses and not stain the surface? I think the new Nuln Oil may be good for this approach or the Pro Acryl Black Wash with a bit of Medium added in. Your thoughts are welcomed.
Thank you for appreciating the content! We’re trying to grind over here! lol.
In regard to not staining the surfaces, unfortunately we’ve been slammed with other things and haven’t revisited this technique much but it is on the list. I would think that perhaps after the black is applied, come back with the brush cleaned and kind of mop up anything that would be good n the high points.
Maybe it’s time to revisit this video again with some options. 🤔
I figured this ChopSlap technique out a while ago, and find it vastly easier than doing the multiple dry-brush passes of the SlapChop technique. Plus, applying washes onto smaller models feels a lot easier to me. And, from my experience, the results are basically identical.
Yeah, I feel the vast differences between the two where that satin and gloss paints were used to undercoat the chap slap mini. Had I gone flat paints, I think the final result would have been even closer to eachother. Thanks for checking out the video!
I just put the white on wet after the black then color and wash.
Nice video!
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it!
Almost as good as when Dana Howl did it three years ago in her "How to Underpaint Miniatures: A Beginner's Guide to Sketch Style"
Zing!
Here is what to call it - Slopchop :P
Chap slop
The reverse is honestly perfect for lighter color schemes.
This is definitely a concept we plan to tweak and revisit! Too many projects on the plate at the moment but soon!
Thank you for checking out the vid!
I tried reverse slap chop with nuln oil. Does good job
Did this video inspire that or is it something you’ve tried before?
I think if you did the black wash, and then did a dry-brush of white (especially on the upper body), it'd be even better. Just a thought :)
Yeah we talk about that at one point and how it could be something we can try in the future, but for this video we explicitly wanted to try white prime black wash period. Thank you for the view and I love the name btw. It’s clever. Lol
Next test: Try both on the same model! 😁
You could also make your ink thicker to cover the white, and then take a sponge to wipe of anything you want white
After the black wash was applied I’d considered doing a white dry brush over the top but I wanted to see how the technique came out without any added work to the process but it can use some practice and refining for sure!
Its called "grisaille painting" (sounds like grey scale ) in traditional painting arts. Its an old technique used since the renaissance. The coverage in the wash should work well with thinned paints speed paints as the washed surface will react with the thinned paint speed paint and 'wick' across the surface a little bit more.
Interesting thank you! Every days a school day.
I wonder if it makes any difference with a grey base primer and a white dry brush. I feel like traditional slap chop results in super dark colours with speed paint from the videos I've seen.
That’s interesting. I have been flirting with different ways to sorta skip steps in slapchoping… I’ll add that one to the list! Thank you!
Try the new technique, but over grey primer and a quick edge highlight slapchop with white to move from the cartoon look. You are missing the whisps of where the original slapshot brings grey gradients. Just some food for thought.
Awesome thank you! It’s definitely on the list to revisit her soon with some other options!
Slap chop looks way better tbh. Nice work and love the experimentation 🎉 Where slapchop really shows how good it is, is in the hair. That guys beard looks like you put lots of effort in… 😅
That is certainly the goal! Looking like lots of effort without the effort!! Thank you!
Have you tried Army Painter Dark Tone? I see in other replies you mention Strong Tone, but I thought that was more a really dark brown shade, not black?
I have just recently acquired their box with like 10 different shades in it. I don’t think I’ve messed with the dark tone yet. Is that your go to?
love the idea, I'm not a big fan if the black base for most slapchop colors. the fade to black is too dark for most lighter shades. might have to try this with a color wash
Yeah it worked as a first attempt and concept but it can certainly be improved!
What I do is spray Black. Zenithal Highlight spray white. Wash black with dark Tone from Army painter. And dry brush white over as last prepare step.
Seen this on a Spikey Bits vid. Works great.
I like that too. Same but different and draws the eye more to the top of the model I’m assuming?
@@rollemifyougottem it gives you brighter colors with the speedpaints. And creates a shadow without doing much.
I would be curious to know if results would better if a purple or red wash was used. Skin recesses aren’t typically black unless going for a grim dark look. They are traditionally more of a purple and burgundy hue. It would perhaps help with the desaturated appearance in the dark and mid tones.
I w wondered this myself. I’m going to test it on some poxwalkers soon. Going to use green yellow and purple shades then apply the crusader skin over it. That video should be coming soon!
@@rollemifyougottem that’s great. Look forward to it.
@@rollemifyougottem the equivalent traditional slapchop technique would be to initially prime in dark purple or dark red. Then go in with grey or equivalent mid-tone of matching color.
Skin is always a pain with slap chop. I just paint the skin with wraithbone before dry brushing white.
Yeah. So far with speed paints and skin tones are certainly where the most is left desired.
could you just use nuln oil wash? Were you going with Apple for cost effectivness?
So yes. When we did this video we went with black so it would be exactly opposite of the composition of the SLAPCHOP model.
Since this we have tried some other colors and methods for the wash. But it’s certainly an area I’d like to explore more. Just need the right projects to call for it.
Hi Carl, I'm glad to have met you in the Miniature Hobbyist's chat. Very interesting video. I like the method with the wash. However, I don't own any type of speed paints yet. Do you think one or the other of these methods works better for thin coats of regular paints? Or should I just stick to regular base coating and working from there?
Always good to experiment. Give it a go, line up some test models and try it out.
Hi Andre! Thanks for checking out the video! So, I kind of mention it at the end on how I used to paint my Free Folk units for a song of ice and fire before speed paints were a thing.
I’d prime white or off white, then thin down traditional paints to an almost watery mix. Then paint that on and it worked really well.
Maybe a “No Speed Paints, No Problem” video should be in the works!?
@@rollemifyougottem Thanks, I'll give that another go. I tried it before but had a bit of a hassle with re-activation. That may be because I use really cheap paints though. A “No Speed Paints, No Problem” would also be greatly appreciated. I subbed and whacked the bell so I shouldn't miss anything from now on!
Awesome thank you!
I wonder if doing the reverse slapchop with a grey (or mid-tone beige) instead of black might be the possible "key"?
I was thinking this also. With the hard black “comic book” ish lines it made, going a softer wash might help with that.
@@rollemifyougottem I also feel like base coating that model with a grey instead of pure white would be beneficial. The white makes the colours at the end unnaturally vibrant imo. Making a less thin wash might also help with this, so it will stain some of the white more toward grey.
The second giant, before color and especially while the wash is still wet, looks kinda... Mike Mignola art style? I might be thinking of something else but it's definitely giving me the same vibe as some kinds of some black and white art style I've seen.
Edit: I see you actually made a similar comparison a little later on!
I’ll have to look that artist up! But yeah I had a big “am I sure I really want to do this” moment at first. Lol
My latest game changer has been not using a paper towel for dry brushing! it dries the paint our and leaves a chalky result. make a texture palette or use a old piece of terrain or a failed 3d print to remove paint until you get the coverage you want.
Check out our video that went live a few hours ago 😜 thanks for checking out the vid!
Basilicanum grey over white works well too!
There’s certainly room for further exploration with the idea!
@@rollemifyougottem I used it to save a drybrush I screwed up and the model looks the same as the rest luckily
good lord that apple barrel is thick af hahahah i never noticed till now
VERRRRYYYYYY!!!!!!
This looks more like a wet brush than a dry brush
way over 200. LOL
Wash Chopping across the universe..
I am about to paint some Borderlands Figures.. Think the ChopSlap or PochPals would work for that, what do you think?
Otherwise i use the SlapChop and draw the lines with a fineliner (was the plan since i saw this video)
The only ChopSlap problem i see is, that you might miss to darken some deeper parts (like Armpits, or behind the ears or somewhere else).
So I saw the other day where someone just used a sharpie marker to do the hard black lines of the borderlands/comic book sort of style and it seemed really simple. I haven’t found a project to try it on myself yet but do you think that would be applicable to what you’re looking for?
@@rollemifyougottem yeah, I saw those videos too, and I bought a Kuretake pen because of that. I think I will try different stuff. (I have to, because I paint to poop sporadically to be good at it. I only bingewatch TH-cam content HOW I may paint)
Hello, interesting video but I prefer dry brushing because it is easier to master the contrast with this method.
I think slap chop (which is a silly name tbh) doesn't look great on miniatures. Instead if you use the same principles, but instead of black gray white scale underneath you use something that will make sense with the colours you'll add later it becomes much better. For example use a scale of brown for skin, etc
I hate the name also to be honest. All I can think about is the goofy dude in the dumb vegetable cutting informercials lol
It looks like you put the dry brush on way too heavy, so you're just simply going over mass parts of the model and not getting a nice gradual balance in shades etc. So going over details with each color change.
Obviously this is your way of doing it, but i personally think a more careful approach looks way better
Are you sure that's Absolution Green? It looks closer to Plasmatic Bolt!
I am certain… I think? Lol
Traditional slapchop is far better than the wash. I thought the same as you and tried doing the black wash but you do not get the volumes in colors with the was that you get with traditional slapchop and have less control.
I would also like to state there is no right or wrong way to paint a mini. There are also always ways to improve quality, but that isn't the point of these methods.
Dana Howl calls the alternative „wash chop“. ;) tried it too… but you should definitely drybrush white again after the wash step. Not sure yet which one I prefer… traditional slap chop looks horrible on humans with a lot of visible skin…
Yeah this was something I certainly considered but for the sake of what exactly I was trying to see from the test I decided against it. I usually dry brush a traditional pony skin tone on skin when slap choping but, once again for comparing apples to apples I opted to not do that also.
If there are a lot of skin areas, try priming with brown instead of black, then drybrush with light tan, then white. Makes the transitions much less harsh.
You're not taking enough paint off your brush when you are dry brushing. Also Slop Chop for the reverse method since your using a sloppy wash. :P
I like the Slop Chop! Hahaha
Slapwash
I actually like this a lot!
I slap chop with brown instead of black and think it looks better. To many colours just look bad over the black
Very interesting, I’ll have to try to that thanks!
Why didn't you dry drush the white-primed-black-washed one, like you did the slap chop?.. you would have given it a chance then..
We talk about that a bit in the video. Yes it would have likely looked better, but it was decided against because the goal of the video was white prime, black wash period. No extra steps. When I revisit this technique sometime it will certainly be something I try.
Sloppy Chaps
CLUELESS!!!!
Like you were clueless to what an awesome technique this is or….?
Slapchop isnt a thing. Its a madeup word to describe fast dry brushing and Zen highlights. Its a made up thing,. There is no right or wrong,its not a thing .
Isn’t everything a made up thing though?
The name “slapchop” (as honestly dumb as it is) describes a process of underpainting. It can’t not be a real thing if people collectively agree that it is.
@@rollemifyougottem The kid was trying to make a silly meme. it's not a thing.
Lets stop with the silly names. These are all just Underpainting techniques.
But… but silly names are the fun part Kevin!