Great point. She was definitely played as a slimy person. Reminds me of the type of women, that would abuse her spouse, and then call the cops claiming that he hit her.
I like the fact that she seem to be a competent commander from a strategic standpoint. If her offense was allowed to continue when she had the Cardassians on the backfoot then she never would have been in a position to throw her boss under the bus in the first place. Usually when we see admirals with personalities like hers they turn out to be completely incompetent but seems that she is knows how to survive politics and is a competent commander. It doesn't change the fact that she's ruthless and completely unlikable but interesting as soon as I saw her appear I immediately suspected she was going to muck everything up but was surprised to say the least, very refreshing.
@@nunya3163 Don't see how her being a woman has anything to do with it, but ok...... I mean literally Glyn Madrid did the same thing and im sure you wouldn't use the same analogy. Makes me questions where your politics lie with statements like this.
@@n543576 Politics have nothing to do with it. I have seen abusive women start fights with their spouses, only to turn and call the cops, playing the victim. It is an apt comparison, as this was her idea, and she then ran and played the victim, blaming the politicians for it.
As if Nechayev and Jellico weren't my favourite Starfleet officers enough already, this comes up! Great work. That's a frankly terrifying double-act of a Starfleet officer pairing, for the next video: may whatever god the Cardassians believe in have mercy on their souls. What terribly "inconvenient" timing for a blood plague to lead to the resolution process being derailed... Section 31 or Obsidian Order? Place your bets.
I'd say Obsidian Order, this doesn't seem like Section 31's style since it hurts the Federation more than it does the Cardassians, where as we know the Obsidian Order are callous in a way that make Vogons blush
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Knowing what we do about the Federation, even if these were internment camps, they would hardly have been Gulags. They would have been well planned out, clean, with no expenses spared, maybe even designed with a secondary purpose of showing these Cardassian civilians the kind of quality of life they could have expected as Federation citizens. Combined with how advanced Federation medical science is, the outbreak of a virulent disease seems almost absurd. It just seems impossible to me for such an outbreak to occur unless there was some shady characters involved and I am certain that this same thought had to have occured to some one in Starfleet or even the regular Cardassian military
I think Nechayev is a great Admiral, she may not be liked among captains but she gets the job done, there can be no denying that, and she is indeed a true starfleet officer and when she has to give out orders, they come from her superiors too whether she likes them or not and passes those orders to those under her command or jurisdiction. I do think that an Ambassador class is more fitting for her rank instead of the standard excelsior class as well when she is admiral
While there were Starfleet officers like the Commodore and Captain Jellico who treated the Cardassians as a serious threat and were decisive enough to achieve victories against them, the rest of the Federation was still in the Golden Age mindset that war was a thing of the past and that any problem could be solved with enough diplomacy. As a result, they held back deploying their most advanced ships of the time like the Galaxy-class from decisively defeating an enemy with a 30 year technological disadvantage, needlessly prolonged a conflict they could have won at any time in favor of a faux peace, ended up pushing the Cardassians into the Dominion and were almost destroyed in the subsequent war because they learned almost too late that while force without justice is tyranny, justice without force is toothless.
@@bayarsejar5831 The fact the military faction literally invaded Cardassia because of a Dominion infiltrator is conveniently forgotten when people what to bad mouth the Golden Age.
I know how frustrating interspecies tensions can be. In my last game of Stellaris, one multispecies world was wracked by civilian species fighting each other, resulting in several bombings and two massacres. Only by raising living standards and a much bigger military presence could I suppress it, but it still took decades to quell. I doubt Starfleet had that long.
indeed. nor are they able to devote the resources necessary to the region to improve conditions: federation attitudes to frontier colonists have always been characterized by a aloof attitude. if you live on earth or Andoria all this seems a million miles away from you. and Starfleet has its hands tied here by basically pretending its not at war.
I still can't understand how an outdated squadron of Cardassian ships were able to destroy a Nebula class ship Sisko and Dukat were on during the Dominion War.
Cardassia ships probably got some serious upgrades from their Dominion counterparts. While still not a match for the Federation ships 1:1 they could at least take them down if they had the edge in numbers.
Another excellent production. You take what has been established in the shows and draw both logical and creative conclusions. I am really enjoying your work!
The older i get and the more distance i get to my Trekkie self (who saw Picard and his crew with rose-tinted spectacles (I hope that's the right expression)), the more i tend to think that it would have been great if Jellico would have actually stayed as Captain of the Enterprise. He did a great jopb in straighten things out. The Crew, especially Riker, Laforge and Troi needed some serious kick in the ass at that point in time. I think Jellico would have been a good change in pace for the series and would have given TNG a bit more down to earth feel.
This was great. My only issue. The ground engagement map. The color choices made the map difficult to follow. At a glance, I couldn't make out star fleets positions.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 True, but it was a full on War at this point. The Federation, up until the Dominion War really didn't know how to FIGHT one, much less win it. The Cardassian Border Wars show that the military power it was in the 23rd Century was gone and the more pacifistic side of Starfleet was still firmly in control.
The Federation really does seem incompetent when it comes to war, "Oh we don't want to escalate the conflict so we don't want to attack their territories directly." And yes I know the similarities to the Vietnam War this is suppose to have but Starfleet leaders would be able to look at how that conflict ended and know that the only way to win the war would be to cripple Cardassia's military capacity and force a surrender, which they have the technological advantage to do. The Klingons and Romulans would've ended the war in a few years and the Cardassian Union would be a vassal state of either empire since they actually know how to wage a war.
The Federation is not a military organisation it's more a trade Federation reliance on the fact that everyone behaves and follow the rules the Borg then the Dominion changed all of that in the 25th century the Federation was the strongest military alliance in the Galaxy so they did learn there lessons 😉
The main difference between this conflict and the Vietnam conflict was that the Cardassians were losing a ton of resources and no big political power was supporting them
Star fleet should have sent in an overwhelming force of ships and just glassed every cardasian outpost and ship they encountered. You do not fight a war to obtain peace, you will open yourself up for defeat every time. You fight a war to achieve victory and then demand peace from your broken enemy.
The Federation grows by diplomacy, not by conquest. Particularly harsh methods of war-making, especially when not facing a true existential threat, prevent the Federation from growing and keeping up with its rivals.
How, in the hell, does this ONE MAN with limited resources and time.... create stories and battle graphics infinitely more interesting and captivating than what is produced by a MAJOR TELEVISION STUDIO!!? I mean, come the hell on CBS!!? Pay this man $150,000 a year and give him a decent budget for a Frontline-Type series of episodes, narrated by VenomGeek. Do you guys have any f*^{£\+^! idea how many of us trekies would pay for that?! How many hours and how much effort we would dedicate to spreading the word (a la Expanse)?! Just a silly waste at this point....
I think Nakamura was a fine officer in Peace Time, but like a lot of Starfleet officers of his generation, he had joined the service to be an explorer. He was probably excellent as an explorer, but had neither skills nor mindset to command a military operation. It would probably be more accurate to think in terms of Nachayev being unusually aggressive and militaristic for a Starfleet officer of her time.
Captain Burgoyne.. interesting. Would that be the Hermat, Burgoyne 170 or 171? Or a Human descendant of "Gentleman" John Burgoyne? If the latter.. READ HIS PLAYS! No, seriously, if you're the sort that can put yourself in the past, read the plays of John Burgoyne. They're both interesting and humorous.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 As an American, I chiefly knew him as a British General in the American Revolution, until my interest in history led me to find out more about him. Side note - I love your works. They're compelling, and you have the voice for them. Awesome stuff, for the love of God, please keep it up.
Well, i believe that starfleet could end it diffrently. Simply blowing up entire Cardassian fleet. Then announce to their goverment, that every cardassian spacecraft will be destroyed. They would no longer be any threat to federation, and you win the war without killing a single civilian. Everyone live their happy life on the planet. However their are mad at federation, they cant do anything about that. Either their surrender, or in 50 years their empire cease to exist because of lack of interstellar communications and transportation. I don't understand why space wars are treated as land conflicts.
Hey Venom? What song is that, that you use as your end credits? You haven't given the info for that one anywhere. I've veen looking for it in the descriptions of many of your vids and am coming up empty. Which song is that at the end? 😯
@@venomgeekmedia9886 I wrote that mostly as a joke. But boy does the existence of Section 31 bring up the possibility of a ton of cans of worms. Also, I like how you can so convincingly make the Cardassians look like the good guys in all of this when you show what's going on on their side of this conflict.
@@TimothyChapman there's always two sides to any conflict. among the cardassian Military Government. there was a strong strain of thought that if you didn't actively stand against and resist the federation. it would inevitably swallow you up like a black hole. from their perspective the federation represents many of the Vices and values that brought the Hebitian civilization to its ruin. additionally they are almost a 2nd rate power and they find themselves swimming with sharks: the Federation, the Romulans, the Klingons so they need to puff themselves up and put up a strong front. but it is only that, a front.
Nechayev is a name among Russians that is a synonym for evil, because one of the most murderous of the Communists in Russia had that name. Ironic that a character in the Star Trek franchise also bears it.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Sergey Nechayev was an ardent Communist who was active in the mid to late 19th century in Russia. He was captured, and died behind bars at the hands of the Tsar. It was his methods that Lenin and Stalin used to seize power then kill millions of my ancestors in Ukraine and Russia. So that name would not be one I would want to bear. Unlike most of the Bolsheviks, Nechayev was the son of ex-serfs and thus was an ethnic Russian who became the same sort of radical we see in the streets across the West today. The actress who had the role of Nechayev is undoubtedly Ukrainian or Russian, she is definitely a Slav.
I am very much a defender of the Golden age. I don't like TNG era Picard and I prefer DS9 as a series but I like the Golden Age Federation. At the same time Admiral Nechayev advocated wiping out the Borg and in the books is a bit of a bigot (she doesn't trust species that aren't bipedal and humanoid) so I can believe it. Also technically this was written in because of Star Trek Voyager so it's not reallly the fasult of the Golden Age.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 true enough but we rarely see that in these.... Not that it doesn't happen and I'm not criticizing the genre. I love sci fi I'm just saying
Imagine being so weak in the stomach that you don't just crush a hostile empire that you outgun 10 to 1 with your top tier units. This is why I genuinely have contempt for the federation sometimes.
The Federation was showing mercy, they could have started wiping out the Cardassians on a species wide level as soon as they became aggressive, but they chose to meet them as a peer in battle like the Klingons and Romulans before. They're demonstrating to their enemy that the Federation is a superior society with an ideal of respect even for people they kill.
The Commodore throwing her boss under the bus was an excellent bonus. Completely fits with her personality on screen.
my thoughts exactly.
Great point. She was definitely played as a slimy person. Reminds me of the type of women, that would abuse her spouse, and then call the cops claiming that he hit her.
I like the fact that she seem to be a competent commander from a strategic standpoint. If her offense was allowed to continue when she had the Cardassians on the backfoot then she never would have been in a position to throw her boss under the bus in the first place. Usually when we see admirals with personalities like hers they turn out to be completely incompetent but seems that she is knows how to survive politics and is a competent commander. It doesn't change the fact that she's ruthless and completely unlikable but interesting as soon as I saw her appear I immediately suspected she was going to muck everything up but was surprised to say the least, very refreshing.
@@nunya3163 Don't see how her being a woman has anything to do with it, but ok...... I mean literally Glyn Madrid did the same thing and im sure you wouldn't use the same analogy. Makes me questions where your politics lie with statements like this.
@@n543576 Politics have nothing to do with it. I have seen abusive women start fights with their spouses, only to turn and call the cops, playing the victim. It is an apt comparison, as this was her idea, and she then ran and played the victim, blaming the politicians for it.
As if Nechayev and Jellico weren't my favourite Starfleet officers enough already, this comes up! Great work. That's a frankly terrifying double-act of a Starfleet officer pairing, for the next video: may whatever god the Cardassians believe in have mercy on their souls.
What terribly "inconvenient" timing for a blood plague to lead to the resolution process being derailed... Section 31 or Obsidian Order? Place your bets.
I'd say Obsidian Order, this doesn't seem like Section 31's style since it hurts the Federation more than it does the Cardassians, where as we know the Obsidian Order are callous in a way that make Vogons blush
definitely Obsidian Order. Section 31 may be shady, but they don't work against the Federation.
Obsidian order does sound plausible. it also makes sense that Madred would have leaked it; as an intel officer he was likely cosy with the Order.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Knowing what we do about the Federation, even if these were internment camps, they would hardly have been Gulags. They would have been well planned out, clean, with no expenses spared, maybe even designed with a secondary purpose of showing these Cardassian civilians the kind of quality of life they could have expected as Federation citizens. Combined with how advanced Federation medical science is, the outbreak of a virulent disease seems almost absurd.
It just seems impossible to me for such an outbreak to occur unless there was some shady characters involved and I am certain that this same thought had to have occured to some one in Starfleet or even the regular Cardassian military
Both working together, like the starfleet admiral and the rogue klingons (and those pesky romulans) on star trek 6
I think Nechayev is a great Admiral, she may not be liked among captains but she gets the job done, there can be no denying that, and she is indeed a true starfleet officer and when she has to give out orders, they come from her superiors too whether she likes them or not and passes those orders to those under her command or jurisdiction.
I do think that an Ambassador class is more fitting for her rank instead of the standard excelsior class as well when she is admiral
definitely i don't think we see the ambassador enough in TNG.
You'd think an Admiral would prefer the more advanced amenities of the Ambassador class to the "traditional" ones of the far older Excelsior. 🤔
While there were Starfleet officers like the Commodore and Captain Jellico who treated the Cardassians as a serious threat and were decisive enough to achieve victories against them, the rest of the Federation was still in the Golden Age mindset that war was a thing of the past and that any problem could be solved with enough diplomacy.
As a result, they held back deploying their most advanced ships of the time like the Galaxy-class from decisively defeating an enemy with a 30 year technological disadvantage, needlessly prolonged a conflict they could have won at any time in favor of a faux peace, ended up pushing the Cardassians into the Dominion and were almost destroyed in the subsequent war because they learned almost too late that while force without justice is tyranny, justice without force is toothless.
What about the Klingon invasion?
@@bayarsejar5831 The fact the military faction literally invaded Cardassia because of a Dominion infiltrator is conveniently forgotten when people what to bad mouth the Golden Age.
It's a contrived mess that was written in to justify the Maquis on Voyager.
Picard- "Our alternatives are to continue firing on one another, and in such a contest, you would be at a disadvantage."
The Federation cannot afford to take its enemies so lightly
Jellico's negotiations were based on what he learned about Cardassian culture... and some Senator named Amidala.
Aggressive Negotiations... when Cowboy Diplomacy isn't enough.
I know how frustrating interspecies tensions can be. In my last game of Stellaris, one multispecies world was wracked by civilian species fighting each other, resulting in several bombings and two massacres. Only by raising living standards and a much bigger military presence could I suppress it, but it still took decades to quell. I doubt Starfleet had that long.
indeed. nor are they able to devote the resources necessary to the region to improve conditions: federation attitudes to frontier colonists have always been characterized by a aloof attitude. if you live on earth or Andoria all this seems a million miles away from you. and Starfleet has its hands tied here by basically pretending its not at war.
I still can't understand how an outdated squadron of Cardassian ships were able to destroy a Nebula class ship Sisko and Dukat were on during the Dominion War.
Cardassia ships probably got some serious upgrades from their Dominion counterparts. While still not a match for the Federation ships 1:1 they could at least take them down if they had the edge in numbers.
Love these 👍
Captain Jelico was a great captain, and should have been in command of the flagship.
Another excellent production. You take what has been established in the shows and draw both logical and creative conclusions. I am really enjoying your work!
Really looking forward to the next part of this series.
Out of the frying pan and into the fire I hope there a Dominion War later this is bravo bravo
The United federation of planets needs to take their enemies more seriously
The older i get and the more distance i get to my Trekkie self (who saw Picard and his crew with rose-tinted spectacles (I hope that's the right expression)), the more i tend to think that it would have been great if Jellico would have actually stayed as Captain of the Enterprise.
He did a great jopb in straighten things out.
The Crew, especially Riker, Laforge and Troi needed some serious kick in the ass at that point in time.
I think Jellico would have been a good change in pace for the series and would have given TNG a bit more down to earth feel.
30 or 40 years behind and gaining STARFLEET!
This was great. My only issue. The ground engagement map. The color choices made the map difficult to follow. At a glance, I couldn't make out star fleets positions.
thanks for letting me know i'll take that into account in the future.
almost starting
I am so looking forward to this.
Great documentary great video😁🖖
I totally look forward 2 the nxt video
Fantastic! I love these videos!
If Starfleet had just taken Bajor during this conflict, it'd have ended it AND stopped the paramilitary members too.
perhaps but as far as the federation is concerned Bajor falls within Sovereign cardassian Territory.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 True, but it was a full on War at this point. The Federation, up until the Dominion War really didn't know how to FIGHT one, much less win it. The Cardassian Border Wars show that the military power it was in the 23rd Century was gone and the more pacifistic side of Starfleet was still firmly in control.
That's a very tricky situation right there
The spoonheads were nothing more than a bot fly against the UFP.
Great video
The Federation really does seem incompetent when it comes to war, "Oh we don't want to escalate the conflict so we don't want to attack their territories directly." And yes I know the similarities to the Vietnam War this is suppose to have but Starfleet leaders would be able to look at how that conflict ended and know that the only way to win the war would be to cripple Cardassia's military capacity and force a surrender, which they have the technological advantage to do. The Klingons and Romulans would've ended the war in a few years and the Cardassian Union would be a vassal state of either empire since they actually know how to wage a war.
I like the comparison to Korea more than Vietnam: a limited war with intentionally limited means & goals.
The Federation is not a military organisation it's more a trade Federation reliance on the fact that everyone behaves and follow the rules the Borg then the Dominion changed all of that in the 25th century the Federation was the strongest military alliance in the Galaxy so they did learn there lessons 😉
That *was* the American strategy in Vietnam. It failed miserably.
The main difference between this conflict and the Vietnam conflict was that the Cardassians were losing a ton of resources and no big political power was supporting them
the strange thing is that decades later the Klingons are going through a civil war of their own,oh how history repeats itself.
Star fleet should have sent in an overwhelming force of ships and just glassed every cardasian outpost and ship they encountered. You do not fight a war to obtain peace, you will open yourself up for defeat every time. You fight a war to achieve victory and then demand peace from your broken enemy.
The Federation grows by diplomacy, not by conquest. Particularly harsh methods of war-making, especially when not facing a true existential threat, prevent the Federation from growing and keeping up with its rivals.
Wonderful vids
wait, an OBERTH that didn't explode just by looking at it
I call shenanigans
How, in the hell, does this ONE MAN with limited resources and time.... create stories and battle graphics infinitely more interesting and captivating than what is produced by a MAJOR TELEVISION STUDIO!!? I mean, come the hell on CBS!!? Pay this man $150,000 a year and give him a decent budget for a Frontline-Type series of episodes, narrated by VenomGeek. Do you guys have any f*^{£\+^! idea how many of us trekies would pay for that?! How many hours and how much effort we would dedicate to spreading the word (a la Expanse)?! Just a silly waste at this point....
Nakamura was spineless.
I think Nakamura was a fine officer in Peace Time, but like a lot of Starfleet officers of his generation, he had joined the service to be an explorer. He was probably excellent as an explorer, but had neither skills nor mindset to command a military operation. It would probably be more accurate to think in terms of Nachayev being unusually aggressive and militaristic for a Starfleet officer of her time.
Dam the federation needs to protect its citizens from harm.
Captain Burgoyne.. interesting. Would that be the Hermat, Burgoyne 170 or 171? Or a Human descendant of "Gentleman" John Burgoyne? If the latter.. READ HIS PLAYS! No, seriously, if you're the sort that can put yourself in the past, read the plays of John Burgoyne. They're both interesting and humorous.
thanks for the recommendation. i will definitely give them a look.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 As an American, I chiefly knew him as a British General in the American Revolution, until my interest in history led me to find out more about him.
Side note - I love your works. They're compelling, and you have the voice for them. Awesome stuff, for the love of God, please keep it up.
2:39 thats David Beckham actually!
as i suspected... or is he simply another shapeshifter like mark Aliamo?
Well, i believe that starfleet could end it diffrently. Simply blowing up entire Cardassian fleet. Then announce to their goverment, that every cardassian spacecraft will be destroyed. They would no longer be any threat to federation, and you win the war without killing a single civilian. Everyone live their happy life on the planet. However their are mad at federation, they cant do anything about that. Either their surrender, or in 50 years their empire cease to exist because of lack of interstellar communications and transportation. I don't understand why space wars are treated as land conflicts.
Could you Order these with Pt 1, 2, 3 etc?
Ds9 Battle with Klingon
Hey Venom? What song is that, that you use as your end credits? You haven't given the info for that one anywhere. I've veen looking for it in the descriptions of many of your vids and am coming up empty. Which song is that at the end? 😯
same as the beginning "Video game soldiers"
Plot twist: The whole thing was orchestrated by Section 31 to annex..., I mean, get Cardassia to willingly join the Federation.
i would argue it did the opposite. you definitely could argue that they had a hand in the dominion war though.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 I wrote that mostly as a joke. But boy does the existence of Section 31 bring up the possibility of a ton of cans of worms. Also, I like how you can so convincingly make the Cardassians look like the good guys in all of this when you show what's going on on their side of this conflict.
@@TimothyChapman there's always two sides to any conflict. among the cardassian Military Government. there was a strong strain of thought that if you didn't actively stand against and resist the federation. it would inevitably swallow you up like a black hole. from their perspective the federation represents many of the Vices and values that brought the Hebitian civilization to its ruin. additionally they are almost a 2nd rate power and they find themselves swimming with sharks: the Federation, the Romulans, the Klingons so they need to puff themselves up and put up a strong front. but it is only that, a front.
I know it's a joke too but damn section 31 is always overused.
Nechayev is a name among Russians that is a synonym for evil, because one of the most murderous of the Communists in Russia had that name. Ironic that a character in the Star Trek franchise also bears it.
didn't know that. who was the historical Nechayev? probably a fitting name from the cardassian perspective.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Sergey Nechayev was an ardent Communist who was active in the mid to late 19th century in Russia. He was captured, and died behind bars at the hands of the Tsar. It was his methods that Lenin and Stalin used to seize power then kill millions of my ancestors in Ukraine and Russia. So that name would not be one I would want to bear. Unlike most of the Bolsheviks, Nechayev was the son of ex-serfs and thus was an ethnic Russian who became the same sort of radical we see in the streets across the West today. The actress who had the role of Nechayev is undoubtedly Ukrainian or Russian, she is definitely a Slav.
I am very much a defender of the Golden age. I don't like TNG era Picard and I prefer DS9 as a series but I like the Golden Age Federation. At the same time Admiral Nechayev advocated wiping out the Borg and in the books is a bit of a bigot (she doesn't trust species that aren't bipedal and humanoid) so I can believe it. Also technically this was written in because of Star Trek Voyager so it's not reallly the fasult of the Golden Age.
11:42 I hate it when my starship gets attacked by a massive Flame Fish...
bit like the tng lightning effect. or how every BOP blows up the same way ;)
The Federation would roll them.
Sorry guys my speaking type is obviously not set up for Star Trek
For some reason the first appearance of the cardiassan in TNG remind me of Cockroaches
They, and especially their ships have always struck me as being rather more crustaceans than insectoids.
The names starfleet used for away teams needed a lil work donkey? Doesnt sound right.
I always find it funny when they say "surrounded" in a space battle.....that's not really possible in space
unless you form a sphere around the enemy.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 true enough but we rarely see that in these....
Not that it doesn't happen and I'm not criticizing the genre. I love sci fi I'm just saying
Starfleet under siege? Seriously? Starfleet never recognized Cardassia as anything more than a rabble rouser pseudo empire.
I mean burning the Kardashian home world is kind of like what the Terran empire did the did to the Klingon Homeworld Kronos with a Q
its more a figure of speech....somewhat.
This shows the inability of starfleet to really level a deceive blow to end this conflict.
Is that your real accent?
Imagine being so weak in the stomach that you don't just crush a hostile empire that you outgun 10 to 1 with your top tier units. This is why I genuinely have contempt for the federation sometimes.
The Federation was showing mercy, they could have started wiping out the Cardassians on a species wide level as soon as they became aggressive, but they chose to meet them as a peer in battle like the Klingons and Romulans before. They're demonstrating to their enemy that the Federation is a superior society with an ideal of respect even for people they kill.
2 women in charge of concentration camp projects... what's new..