To me, stick fighting styles seem best for a lightsaber because of the shape is basically the same, and it has no handguard so using a style that relies on one is just gonna get your hands cut off.
But on the other hand, sticks need to put quite a bit of force behind their strikes to do any real damage. They would be using bigger and stronger swings than what's necessary with a light saber.
@@SirContowould they really need more force? When I spar in kali/Arnis/silat, all I need to do is hand hunt and my opponent might lose their grip on their baston. You don't need to do a killing blow every time, you just need to disable/disarm your opponent. With a bladed weapon, all you need to do is get a few decent slashes in. Bleeding out takes care of the rest. With a lightsaber, all you have to do is get small fast strikes in because you don't need any force. I feel like the speed and accuracy training of kali/Arnis/silat would serve you very well with a lightsaber or two.
@@SirContoI don’t wanna be that guy but in the films they do swing full cuts around and at least in the prequels you can explain the fancy twirls as keeping it in momentum. Canonically, lightsabers were always meant to feel heavy wether due to angular momentum faux-physics logic, Kyber crystals being “alive”directing a current of energy mumbo-jumbo or George Lucas’ adamant insistence on it. Still true up to recently with The Mandalorian and how the Darksaber is portrayed. The bigger thing I think that no style can address in regards to lightsaber combat is the fact that they stick together and don’t slide when they bind. It would be like fencing with two sticks made of magnets or tape.
I agree with fencing, generally. Since a slight touch with a lightsaber can be fatal, defense and spacing becomes even more important for survival. In fact, in what used to be the lore of SW, the definite style made for duelling was akin to fencing. With this weapon one needs to be extremely cautious: if you lose precise control and your saber makes contact with your own body, it would mean death. For this reason, I wouldn't risk wielding two sabers at once. Finally, while difficult to wield, I think the staff might be advantageous when facing multiple opponents, as well as perhaps a factor of intimidation.
I think a style that might work really well with a lightsaber would be Jigen-ryū style of kenjutsu. They fight from "the dragonfly stance" (which is similar to hasso no kamae in kendo katas). Their traditional training regimen was to hit a tree with a stick, 3000 times in the morning and then another 8000 times in the afternoon. And doing that daily for years. They have something of a motto: "Believe in your first strike, the second strike loses". In combat, they try to win with their first strike, which they can do really fast and with an insane amount of force. And although they tried to get a direct hit with it, there are accounts of people trying to block Jigen-ryū only to have their own blade knocked back into their own faces, or for Jigen-ryū's attack to break through their blocks by force. With a lightsaber, Jigen-ryu's fast first strike approach would possibly work really well. And if it manages to knock someone's lightsaber back at them, that'd be even more effective than with real swords. And while with regular swords, breaking through people's block by force usually still results in a greatly weakened blow that might not kill, if we're talking lightsabers it most likely would.
@@koraegi they use different arts for different people. For example, Dooku uses historic fancing as his syle as he is a master dualist and cross guard stance characters use HEMA (especially the greatsword techniques). But kenjutsu, battojutsu and iaijutsu are the main inspirations
Shad from Shadiversity argued some years ago the same thing you guys got to, that fencing would probably be the most typical style, keep your distance and just poke holes on the other person, no need tot ry and cut them in half if just the tip works, definitely if these existed they would *NOT* look like the movies!
I've always gone with a take similar to Sellsword Arts. You'd use it like a flashlight or a VR controller and just waggle your wrist frantically. No need to generate force from the elbow or shoulder.
Rapier and dagger style for sure would be what i go with. Thrusting for the hand and parrying any afterblows with the 'dagger' lightsaber in the off hand
I love your exploration of different weapons and what style of fighting is best. Light sabers kendo. Unless your using two light sabers put together, then fight like it is a Bo staff.
Sadly, I think the explanation in the video is correct that the double bladed saber is basically a worse Bo staff since it has so much less flexibility in how it's used. If there were gloves that somehow let you adjust your grip on the saber portion then it would become the best weapon, but limitations are limitations.
I think the FMA style is the perfect choice for lightsabers because it allows users to hold them with either one or two hands, and it provides training without the need for edged weapons.
Very fun video! ^^ You should have counted when double-bladed lightsaber guy hit himself with the back blade... To me it seemed like this weapon was more dangerous to its wielder than to his opponent. ^^"
The Double-Lightsaber wasn't as bad as i thought it would be. Good work from the Fighter. In general it is a movie weapon, that no fighter would invent, as it has no advantages over a normal sword and greatly endangers the wielder.
It's basically a staff weapon, and staff weapons do tend to perform favorably over swords, but because of range and versatility. If you take away the range, it's basically two swords attached at the pommel, in which case two swords are just a better option overall.
It would be better if users fought by turning the lower portion on and off, which is rarely done in Star Wars media. Only really done in an Old Republic trailer. That also can't really be done with sparring versions.
@ClokworkGremlin two swords are way more powerful. You can move them independently, and you avoid the greatest drawback of this weapon. One blade is pointed at the opponent and one at the wielder. You have to constantly restrict your movement or hurt yourself. This weapon is a massive handicap. It looks like a staff, but offers no advantage of one while posing massive drawbacks. That's why I said it is a movie weapon. It looks cool, but nothing else.
@@ClokworkGremlin The reason that staves have such an advantage over swords is that you can adjust their reach in a very dynamic way, like thrusting with the very back of the staff or doing any number of other tricks. As they said, the double bladed staff is very static in grip so you lose too much versatility to really call it a staff weapon. If there ended up being a way to grip the lightsaber portion to create the more fluid styles of the staff, then it would probably become the best version of the lightsaber.
One expanded universe explanation was that it was meant more for battlefield scenarios and fighting multiple opponents at once- make of that what you will. Keep in mind, as they say in the beginning, lightsabers aren't like swords, because even a light touch can be enough to end the fight.
The guy with the traditional one sword style was doing surprisingly well. A lot of head hits. But the fencing was getting some solid strikes in. Interesting take. Since just being touched would cause a huge amount of damage vs just a cut. Really change how to approach the fight.
Two handed style have speed adventage, which have more force to control the blade. One hand style have reach adventage, which can extence more body part to attack. If the blade itself if same, I think both style have a fair change.
In a fight where the weapon has barely any mass and can be swung extremely fast and erratic, the two handed style would be far superior, since it could use one blade to control, bind or deflect the single blade of the opponent, while performing quick, erratic strikes at any body part (or the opposing saber's hilt) within reach with the other. Or just create a whirling blur of blades in front of the user, extremely hard to break through. Or they could be used like fencing foils, rapidly changing leading hand and stance. The only advantage of the single blade would be the increased strength the wielder could put into a bind.
Agree that fencing is probably best. Just brushing it against their hand can cut off their thumb. The focus would probably be on tiny hits to the hand and making sure you don't get hit in return.
Fencing = Makashi lightsaber style (Form II) Kendo = Djem So lightsaber style (Form V) Spear = double-bladed lightsaber, which can be used in many forms.
1. Lightsaber can cut in all directions, not like normal sword with one edge or two edges, so the swings can be in all directions 2. Perhaps the standard Kendo stance is most suitable but can swing horizontal left-right and right-left, up-down and down-up in X, even Z or N, or O shape directions. I mean imagine cutting while swinging the flat side of normal sword. 3. Meaning lightsaber real duel will have a lot of tapping each other lightsabers and then going for thrust or swing in awkward ways. 4. Big swings will be a disadvantage for dueling
Always, one of the lightsabers in the Dual-wielded technique in the Star Wars universe has a shorter beam, to make quick attacks and be easier to control. 2:47 really cool
There were actually different lightsaber fighting styles invented for the Star Wars movies and lore- the first style is the basics, the second is about fencing and duelling, the third is all about defence, the fourth is more acrobatic, the fifth has two variations (one for deflecting blasters / lasers) but both are about counterattacking, the sixth is general purpose and incorporates other weapons and abilities, and the seventh also has two variants but is all about aggression.
Would love to see you guys test this out with different hilts! There's the claymore style hilt with the crossguard we see in the sequel trilogy, the curved hilt style we see count dooku use in ep2-3, and there are actual more proper staffs with the blade part at the end, not sure if there's one made to use for sparring purposes like this though.
what a lot of lightsaber fencing videos never take in concideration, it s technically the blade of a lightsaber has no weight nor mass. for nerds like me Exar Kun double light saber seems the harder to handle. Edit : there are light pikes, so maybe it would be a better option than a double light saber.
Exactly: dual wielding always has advantages but here yov must have great confidence in your abilities because the risks of losing control are even higher
actually thats not exactly true lorewise. mark hamill specyficly disscusses this subject in some interviews as he had multiply arguments with george lucas about using one hand style. goerge didnt allow him that saying, that lightsabers are actually heavy in use and require a lot of force skill from the user. Mark hamill was also specificly traning kendo b4 shooting fighting scenses. its the prequles that changed the concept for visual benefits
if you mean the saber staff then yeah, it's the worst lightsaber for dueling against a single opponent. saber staff has a giant weakness in the hilt that a plain old single saber user can always aim for
@@fenrisbutcher7343 shad from shadiversity and a stunt choreographer mentioned that actually for a weightless blade one handed fencing would make more sens, in the two official Star Wars games on Oculus Quest, I often use the lightsaber as a fencing sword. Funny enough Count Doku used his light saber as a fencing sword with a pseudo pistol grip (like in sport fencing).
In lore, count dooku uses a fencing/rapier form and considered to be the best duelist. However it could be weaker against blaster shots. most jedi faced enemies with blasters not another lightsaber
It would be interesting to see yoy guys look at and attempt to fight using the in universe lightsaber forms, although that would probably be a lot of work to organize 😅
I’d say Sabre fencing style is probably the easiest to learn and utilize over kendo. I think Asian styles overall like kali, wushu, and krabi krabong are best with single edge swords and not lightsabers
Someone desperately needs to go to cloud city and steel some of their handrails to make a guard for these sabers. That said, Staff all the way. Except put just one blade on the end of a long shaft like a glaive. It would rule the universe.
yeah, it's all just a mental thing. it's terrifying to see but actually the easiest to fight against in a 1 vs 1 scenario compared to just a plain old single saber or 2 sabers.
Sadly, there are no "real" fighting styles in the forms--but the good news is that their descriptions were largely inspired by real-world martial arts swordsmanship!
it's probably best to have something similar to a polearm, considering the range advantage, as long as you have the space. For actual techniques tho.. no clue.. I'm watching these videos cause they are kinda cool, but I have no actual knowledge:')
While a light, thrust-centered style would probably win the day, to call it "fencing" greatly overlooks the reliance on rules in place of personal safety. No one would fight with a light saber as though it were an Olympic saber; that all-in attack is just too dangerous. The complete lack of hand protection and the way actual light sabers would bounce or bind would certainly make it different than anything we have seen. It's hard to say whether one or two hands on the sword would be best. Two certainly looked safest in this test. A lot would depend on specifics of "blade" weight, balance point, and recoil from another saber. Oh, and diameter of the "blade" would matter a lot. If it were as fine as a foil, fine movements and avoiding parries while attacking would be key. If it were as thick as current dueling lightsabers, then a two-handed kendo approach would probably be best.
@@mishmashmedleyNo I mean his spins looking cool and his other moves. Thats it. Hes not the better one. This is because I say the Red one has better aim :)
@@francosalinas4459 You can use a bo staff both to bludgeon with the ends or to jab like a spear with the tip and according reach. You can quickly change grip and reach with it. Can't do that with such a weapon you can only touch on a relatively short center handle. Also a bo staff has a certain innate flexibility while this does not.
keep in mind that the weight/handling of a Foi or an Epée in fencing is completely different from this lightsaber weapon. a short Sabre might have a similar feel, but still... I'm pretty sure fencing would not be the appropriate technique for this kind of swordfighting.
Fencing for sure. Hands will be the primary targets for lightsabers. Any style that requires more strength than a flick of the wrist would be a waste of energy and easily exploitable. Even against Beskar armor, fencing would allow for better assaults on the gaps.
If single saber vs single saber, I think kenjutsu wins over kendo, fencing, Kali, and HEMA. Because of single handed and double handed techniques both in attack and defense.
It's hard to test, because the blade should be weightless. (I know Star Wars canon disagrees, but that's dumb lol) A weightless blade would be like a flashlight. A VR controller. You don't need to generate force, just wiggle your wrist and spam 100 cuts in a second. Like early VR games xD Even the European fencing shown here couldn't break the habit of generating force. It's hard to imagine the mechanics of blocking and leverage with weightless blades. It seems like a two-handed grip would still help with leverage...right...? But would that be necessary or effective against VR waggling?
If laser blade has zero weight, I think it's nonsense to use it 2 handed, I would say that some rapier-like fencing style would be the most logical for the real lightsaber. Something like Count Dooku was using, minus nonsense spinning around. 🙂 One touch with lightsaber can be deadly, so you want the best reach and the most slim body siluete when you stay towards your opponent, one handed rapier fencing style is the best I believe. Or some asian alternatives, they also had one handed swords I guess. Problem with testing it with replica lightsabers is that you can't simulate zero weight blade and perfect point of balance as real lightsaber would have.
If its a real lightsaber, Style wouldn't matter, as the "blades" would never stop each other. Distance would be king. Blocking could be completely neglected. you'd just lose the limbs.
if those were "real" lightsabers, they would be plasma blades which repel each other for some reason and cannot pass through one another. Because physics are different in a galaxy far, far away i guess?
Since a single touch could incapacitate a foe, I'd say fencing. Just a touch even in a non-vital area, is going to cause intense pain and severely injure. A "tap" on the head would be enough to kill. A tap on the shoulder would incapacitate them. The fastest first hit wins. I'd also say the light saber-spear which has a longer reach.
A long spear shaft would have to be made of Beskar, Phrik, or some other lightsaber-resistant material. Otherwise, if the opponent manages to get their blade past yours, they can destroy your weapon instantly.
@@DarkwarriorJ Yes in this case two is probably better than one. But a fencing style with two would work as well. You can even see in this video how the one that had two used one sword to thrust and the other would swing.
@@MCSPARTAN501 Something to consider too is that we are talking about supernatural force users who can fight well beyond a normal fighter’s ability. Logic doesn’t work well with this. If logic was used, then they would also have energy/beskar shields as well.
It's interesting to me that noone in Canon uses their lightsabre like a rapier. In theory momentum isn't a factor, you could just sway the weapon back and forth in front of you.
dooku actually does kinda use his saber like a rapier. at least that's what form II was supposed to be. also, there is a style that takes it to the extreme and involves turning on and turning off the saber constantly to slip past the opponent's saber and stab them using less movement compared to leaving the saber on the whole time
Best for what? In Star Wars the Jedi also have their own forms meant for specific purposes; Form I - Shii-cho - A balanced form, no strengths, but no particular weaknesses. Form II - Makashi - A form that resolved around lightsaber duels, very similar to Fencing Form III - Soresu - Defensive and economical, meant to protect you, great against blasters Form IV - Ataru - Acrobatic. Explosive. Mirrors crouching tiger aspect of those martial arts Form V - Shien/Djem So - Control. Flowing. this one emphasizes using your enemy's strength to your advantage, similar to Akido and similar arts Form VI - Niman - Shii-cho's evolution, or a unification of the previous styles. Balanced Form VII - Juyo/Vaapad - Unpredictable. Ferocious. I don't know of a style that fits this perfectly. There is a focus on the mindset here though, so it might be close enough Bushido. So, really. If it's against other Lightsaber users, I'd say Makashi, Djem So, or Juyo would compete for that place; Fencing or Akido
To add to this, Form I is the basic form with all the fundamentals. It is also focused on disarming opponents. Visually, it looks like kendo to me. Form II is the form based on fencing and is said to be the best for lightsaber duels but poorly designed against blasters. This is best represented by Count Dooku. His actor, Christopher Lee, was a real-life fencer. Form III is purely defensive and designed to strike only when an opening presents itself. Obi-Wan Kenobi is a master of this form, and his opening stances often look like he's using a _jian._ But his style as an old man, especially in the rematch with Darth Maul in _Star Wars: Rebels,_ is based on real kendo. In principle, this form is based on being water. Form IV is like the lightsaber form of Long Fist, part of Shaolin martial arts. It is very acrobatic, energetic, and uses kicks. It is used by Yoda because of his height disadvantage. Form II users call it impractical, but Form IV makes some sense if you have superhuman reflexes and agility and are facing many enemies, some with guns. Firebending in Avatar is also based on Long Fist, so there are parallels. Form V is a form emphasizing creating openings for counter-attacks, intended to balance offense and defense better than Form III and IV. It is often described as using wide swings and powerful, heavy attacks, but I don't think this makes much sense since a duelist should avoid telegraphing their moves, and lightsabers have no weight and don't need heavy swings to injure. Visually, Form V is best represented by the choreography in Episode V between Luke and Darth Vader in Cloud City, which borrows some techniques from Historical European Martial Arts (HEMA). So, Form V can said to be the HEMA form. Form VI is supposed to be the "jack-of-all-trades", "master of none" form. There's no good detail or representation of it. It is said that many Jedi died in battle using this form because it is made for diplomats who need minimal combat training and not warriors. Form VII has two variations, Juyo and Vaapad. This is the "berserker" form, designed to overwhelm opponents with frenzied, unpredictable, rapid attacks and sheer power. Visual representation of Juyo is not very consistent even though most Sith (dark siders) use it. The best example is probably Darth Sidious (Emperor Palpatine)'s style, which uses a lot of weird movements and sudden "staccato" stabs and cuts. Vaapad was invented by Mace Windu as a powerful form that skirts the edge of the dark side. Using it requires getting into the mindset of relishing, enjoying the thrill of battle, like a Saiyan in DBZ I guess. This is the most superhuman form because it involves techniques like swinging the lightsaber so fast, it creates a "shield" around the user. Juyo vs. Vaapad appears in Episode III in the duel between Darth Sidious and Mace Windu, but the choreography is poor due to the actors' physical limitations and doesn't accurately show their principles and techniques. In general, choreography of lightsaber techniques is inconsistent and often doesn't make much sense, but the above info is how we can approximate them to real-world martial arts.
That's due to the forms being made as descriptors and not true-to-life, as the Force empowers much of the Jedi or Sith's ability as a baseline. They do draw heavy inspiration from real-world martial arts, however. For our real-world lightsaber fighting, it really comes down to calling your hits and judging if they were shallow or true. Using whatever set of techniques you choose will make it easier or harder, but anything can be viable if it is stable and practiced.
Bringing the styles down to a Force-less world, Makashi probably becomes more effective, since it keeps all its advantages and isn't diminished by the absence of special powers (like Ataru or Niman would)
The bo/spear one looked good to me. You could attack with both ends and had more angles. In the literature it says thats why double bladed lightsabers were so dangerous
It makes sense with the sort of Hollywood/video game logic, where fighters all stay in-range the whole battle and the winner is the one with the fanciest angles. That's a habit I had to train myself to break. Manipulating distance is a major part of dueling or small-scale skirmishes. Being able to flip a double-sided weapon (like a staff) is a sort of 'surprise move,' similar to the one-handed 'release thrust' at 2:43. This can help marginally, but it's more situational than 'normal moves.' A single-bladed weapon should be able to hit all the same angles with decent timing.
@@Densoro True but theres also the psyche advantage. Think back to when darth maul first appeared in starwars episode 1. If you felt an oh shit moment when the 2nd blade appears thats what Im referring to and its useful in combat even if for a moment
the saber staff is the weakest weapon for dueling a single opponent. it has a giant glaring weakness in the hilt so the staff wielder will always have to keep their hands on the move or out of range of the opponent's saber to stand a chance.
The only advantage a double-bladed sword-staff thingy might have is, when facing two opponents simultaneously and rapidly jabbing at them in an alternating fashion to keep them at bay. But even then it'd be more likely to hurt yourself with it while swinging and twirling it around wildly, since it limits your arm movement range and forces you to move and pivot with your whole body constantly. And the one thing you don't want to do in a real sword fight is doing pirouettes and turning your back to the enemy. Also a single well placed strike at the center of the hilt or the mostly unprotected hands there and it's over. Better to have a single blade your hand and body can always be kept as far behindd as possible while always have the pointy end point towards the enemy.
For your *next* video, why not test the different fighting styles of *Soulcalibur* ? There's a *lot* there to test even if you've *technically* tested some of them already like Siegfried (Berserk sword), and Zasalamel (scythe). In fact, *because* you've technically tested a couple already, it honestly seems like a *natural* next test.
I wonder if just "touch" would be an accurate depiction of energy weapons. I'd think you'd still have glancing blows where full contact isn't made (and being able to literally split a person in two with connecting hit). If it is just touch, whatever moves fastest wins.
But a lightsaber is a saber at all and must be handled like one, I mean Fencing is useful but a lightsaber is not a foil. I think kenjutsu (not kendo) would be right.
Where is the point of balance on a real lightsaber? It would balance closer to the hand, at a minimum, and probably nearer the center of the weapon. They probably made the first lightsabers more topheavy to accommodate people who trained with swords. In addition to being very fast and killing with a touch, the lightsaber would do devastating damage if it fell through your body. A jedi would want to make sure to end their opponent so that the opponent's lightsaber would fall safely.
Excellent demonstration of the Saberstaff, even if you did dismiss it at the end because it wasn't _exactly_ like a spear. A lot of people simply dismiss this weapon as impractical on sight, but as someone who's actually used it I find it to actually be quite versatile, although it does demand a more active approach to defense. What you did seem to miss in your analysis that was very apparent in the footage was that the saberstaff was able to attack very quickly compared to a single blade, using single motions for attacks that otherwise would have required multiple motions with a single blade. I would honestly say give it some more practice, and don't think of it as any existing weapon. The saberstaff is its own thing, it's not a spear, it's not a sword, and it's not a bo staff. Its closest equivalent would be european polearms, but even then it's not a direct comparison.
remember this is why only jedi really use lightsabers because unlike us normal plebs they have two benefits all stemming from the force that we completely lack. a significantly upped luck state and plot armor (aka the force will pull strings to make sure they live)
2:47 the double strike to the head with the double bladed saber was epic!
To me, stick fighting styles seem best for a lightsaber because of the shape is basically the same, and it has no handguard so using a style that relies on one is just gonna get your hands cut off.
But on the other hand, sticks need to put quite a bit of force behind their strikes to do any real damage. They would be using bigger and stronger swings than what's necessary with a light saber.
@@SirContowould they really need more force? When I spar in kali/Arnis/silat, all I need to do is hand hunt and my opponent might lose their grip on their baston. You don't need to do a killing blow every time, you just need to disable/disarm your opponent. With a bladed weapon, all you need to do is get a few decent slashes in. Bleeding out takes care of the rest. With a lightsaber, all you have to do is get small fast strikes in because you don't need any force.
I feel like the speed and accuracy training of kali/Arnis/silat would serve you very well with a lightsaber or two.
@@SirContoI don’t wanna be that guy but in the films they do swing full cuts around and at least in the prequels you can explain the fancy twirls as keeping it in momentum.
Canonically, lightsabers were always meant to feel heavy wether due to angular momentum faux-physics logic, Kyber crystals being “alive”directing a current of energy mumbo-jumbo or George Lucas’ adamant insistence on it. Still true up to recently with The Mandalorian and how the Darksaber is portrayed.
The bigger thing I think that no style can address in regards to lightsaber combat is the fact that they stick together and don’t slide when they bind. It would be like fencing with two sticks made of magnets or tape.
I agree with fencing, generally. Since a slight touch with a lightsaber can be fatal, defense and spacing becomes even more important for survival. In fact, in what used to be the lore of SW, the definite style made for duelling was akin to fencing.
With this weapon one needs to be extremely cautious: if you lose precise control and your saber makes contact with your own body, it would mean death. For this reason, I wouldn't risk wielding two sabers at once.
Finally, while difficult to wield, I think the staff might be advantageous when facing multiple opponents, as well as perhaps a factor of intimidation.
Perhaps Muay Thai twin sword fighting??
Form 2 Makashi is basically fencing already
@@legendarydigitize2523 ah, right, that's the style's name
The double blade is more effective if they held it like a German long sword. Much better than the kayak grip
I think a style that might work really well with a lightsaber would be Jigen-ryū style of kenjutsu.
They fight from "the dragonfly stance" (which is similar to hasso no kamae in kendo katas). Their traditional training regimen was to hit a tree with a stick, 3000 times in the morning and then another 8000 times in the afternoon. And doing that daily for years.
They have something of a motto: "Believe in your first strike, the second strike loses".
In combat, they try to win with their first strike, which they can do really fast and with an insane amount of force. And although they tried to get a direct hit with it, there are accounts of people trying to block Jigen-ryū only to have their own blade knocked back into their own faces, or for Jigen-ryū's attack to break through their blocks by force.
With a lightsaber, Jigen-ryu's fast first strike approach would possibly work really well. And if it manages to knock someone's lightsaber back at them, that'd be even more effective than with real swords.
And while with regular swords, breaking through people's block by force usually still results in a greatly weakened blow that might not kill, if we're talking lightsabers it most likely would.
This description reminds me of form 5 of lightsaber combat.
@@chrisbonaparte5753 Indeed, Shien/Djem So puts emphasis on strong strikes (besides an element of countering, I think), so this sounds right for it
@@chrisbonaparte5753 Yes. It's also one of the few ways to defeat Form II, other than simply being a lot more skilled/powerful than your opponent.
Reminder that Jigen-ryu practitioners would yell with "Enkyō" _(monkey's scream)_ as they charged. Force Scream + Force Speed = First Strike?
The gasp when she realized they could combine was so cute.
Damn, being that lightsabers where inspired from Shinai (Kendo Sword) I take this as full circle: )
Ironic because fencing would be the perfect for a lightsaber instead of kenjutsu or kendo or like a saber
@@koraegi they use different arts for different people. For example, Dooku uses historic fancing as his syle as he is a master dualist and cross guard stance characters use HEMA (especially the greatsword techniques). But kenjutsu, battojutsu and iaijutsu are the main inspirations
Moral of the story, in a fight with such deadly weapons, most of the time, both combatant will end up killing each other.
*Breathes hard through mask
"Impressive...most impressive."
Shad from Shadiversity argued some years ago the same thing you guys got to, that fencing would probably be the most typical style, keep your distance and just poke holes on the other person, no need tot ry and cut them in half if just the tip works, definitely if these existed they would *NOT* look like the movies!
Heh just the tip 😉
"Just the tip..." never works when I try using it on her... ;)
I've always gone with a take similar to Sellsword Arts. You'd use it like a flashlight or a VR controller and just waggle your wrist frantically. No need to generate force from the elbow or shoulder.
So, Form II: Makashi, then?
Rapier and dagger style for sure would be what i go with. Thrusting for the hand and parrying any afterblows with the 'dagger' lightsaber in the off hand
I love your exploration of different weapons and what style of fighting is best. Light sabers kendo. Unless your using two light sabers put together, then fight like it is a Bo staff.
Sadly, I think the explanation in the video is correct that the double bladed saber is basically a worse Bo staff since it has so much less flexibility in how it's used. If there were gloves that somehow let you adjust your grip on the saber portion then it would become the best weapon, but limitations are limitations.
I think the FMA style is the perfect choice for lightsabers because it allows users to hold them with either one or two hands, and it provides training without the need for edged weapons.
use the force to control 20 lightsabers , works like floating turret XD
So basically in a light sabre fight, everyone dies? Yeah thought as much!
Or at least getting mutilated with instantly cauterized, extremely painful wounds.
@@axelhopfinger533 Yeah give me a blaster or a thermal detonator any day.
@@kcwliew Gimme a good, old fashioned shotgun or MP and see a Jedi parry THAT with his paltry little glowstick!
@@axelhopfinger533 Good point! How you supposed to parry something that spits out 12 tiny pellets... man so much for Jedi powers!
Very fun video! ^^ You should have counted when double-bladed lightsaber guy hit himself with the back blade... To me it seemed like this weapon was more dangerous to its wielder than to his opponent. ^^"
That’s where the force would have came in for real Jedi/Sith lol.
Fencing and similar styles do have an advantage here. This is why the Jedi developed Form II: Makashi.
If anything, I've learned from this that since a lightsaber only requires a light touch, many duels will end in ai uchi/double KO
The Double-Lightsaber wasn't as bad as i thought it would be. Good work from the Fighter. In general it is a movie weapon, that no fighter would invent, as it has no advantages over a normal sword and greatly endangers the wielder.
It's basically a staff weapon, and staff weapons do tend to perform favorably over swords, but because of range and versatility. If you take away the range, it's basically two swords attached at the pommel, in which case two swords are just a better option overall.
It would be better if users fought by turning the lower portion on and off, which is rarely done in Star Wars media. Only really done in an Old Republic trailer. That also can't really be done with sparring versions.
@ClokworkGremlin two swords are way more powerful. You can move them independently, and you avoid the greatest drawback of this weapon. One blade is pointed at the opponent and one at the wielder. You have to constantly restrict your movement or hurt yourself. This weapon is a massive handicap. It looks like a staff, but offers no advantage of one while posing massive drawbacks. That's why I said it is a movie weapon. It looks cool, but nothing else.
@@ClokworkGremlin The reason that staves have such an advantage over swords is that you can adjust their reach in a very dynamic way, like thrusting with the very back of the staff or doing any number of other tricks. As they said, the double bladed staff is very static in grip so you lose too much versatility to really call it a staff weapon. If there ended up being a way to grip the lightsaber portion to create the more fluid styles of the staff, then it would probably become the best version of the lightsaber.
One expanded universe explanation was that it was meant more for battlefield scenarios and fighting multiple opponents at once- make of that what you will. Keep in mind, as they say in the beginning, lightsabers aren't like swords, because even a light touch can be enough to end the fight.
The blue-saber kendoka at the end is very good.
The pure child like joy when you guys realized when you could connect them
The guy with the traditional one sword style was doing surprisingly well. A lot of head hits. But the fencing was getting some solid strikes in. Interesting take. Since just being touched would cause a huge amount of damage vs just a cut. Really change how to approach the fight.
Id love to see more of these kinda lightsaber battles in the movies
Careful and short with one hit to end things
Would make things very tense
Two handed style have speed adventage, which have more force to control the blade.
One hand style have reach adventage, which can extence more body part to attack.
If the blade itself if same, I think both style have a fair change.
In a fight where the weapon has barely any mass and can be swung extremely fast and erratic, the two handed style would be far superior, since it could use one blade to control, bind or deflect the single blade of the opponent, while performing quick, erratic strikes at any body part (or the opposing saber's hilt) within reach with the other. Or just create a whirling blur of blades in front of the user, extremely hard to break through.
Or they could be used like fencing foils, rapidly changing leading hand and stance.
The only advantage of the single blade would be the increased strength the wielder could put into a bind.
Agree that fencing is probably best. Just brushing it against their hand can cut off their thumb. The focus would probably be on tiny hits to the hand and making sure you don't get hit in return.
This is way better than movie choregraphy.
Fencing = Makashi lightsaber style (Form II)
Kendo = Djem So lightsaber style (Form V)
Spear = double-bladed lightsaber, which can be used in many forms.
Not only amazing content, but some seriously skilled practitioners. Bravo!
This is LEGIT how old star wars fight scenes were!!!
Bring in your longsword buddies and give them Kylo Ren-style lightsabers.
1. Lightsaber can cut in all directions, not like normal sword with one edge or two edges, so the swings can be in all directions
2. Perhaps the standard Kendo stance is most suitable but can swing horizontal left-right and right-left, up-down and down-up in X, even Z or N, or O shape directions. I mean imagine cutting while swinging the flat side of normal sword.
3. Meaning lightsaber real duel will have a lot of tapping each other lightsabers and then going for thrust or swing in awkward ways.
4. Big swings will be a disadvantage for dueling
Always, one of the lightsabers in the Dual-wielded technique in the Star Wars universe has a shorter beam, to make quick attacks and be easier to control.
2:47 really cool
Fencing looked better than kendo, but as someone else commented, stick martial arts should also work well.
There were actually different lightsaber fighting styles invented for the Star Wars movies and lore- the first style is the basics, the second is about fencing and duelling, the third is all about defence, the fourth is more acrobatic, the fifth has two variations (one for deflecting blasters / lasers) but both are about counterattacking, the sixth is general purpose and incorporates other weapons and abilities, and the seventh also has two variants but is all about aggression.
If the fencing style is most effective, would this make Count Dooku's curved hilt lightsaber one of the best designed for single combat?
Probably. Since he was also one of the best duelists the Jedi ever had allegedly.
Would love to see you guys test this out with different hilts! There's the claymore style hilt with the crossguard we see in the sequel trilogy, the curved hilt style we see count dooku use in ep2-3, and there are actual more proper staffs with the blade part at the end, not sure if there's one made to use for sparring purposes like this though.
This is the most entertaining dueling I've seen in my life.
You've got a sub for life!
Imagine performing Sun Breathing techniques with lightsabers :b
MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU, ALWAYS! 🚀🚀🚀
2:48 Very nice ...
what a lot of lightsaber fencing videos never take in concideration, it s technically the blade of a lightsaber has no weight nor mass. for nerds like me Exar Kun double light saber seems the harder to handle.
Edit : there are light pikes, so maybe it would be a better option than a double light saber.
Exactly: dual wielding always has advantages but here yov must have great confidence in your abilities because the risks of losing control are even higher
actually thats not exactly true lorewise. mark hamill specyficly disscusses this subject in some interviews as he had multiply arguments with george lucas about using one hand style. goerge didnt allow him that saying, that lightsabers are actually heavy in use and require a lot of force skill from the user. Mark hamill was also specificly traning kendo b4 shooting fighting scenses. its the prequles that changed the concept for visual benefits
if you mean the saber staff then yeah, it's the worst lightsaber for dueling against a single opponent. saber staff has a giant weakness in the hilt that a plain old single saber user can always aim for
@@fenrisbutcher7343 shad from shadiversity and a stunt choreographer mentioned that actually for a weightless blade one handed fencing would make more sens, in the two official Star Wars games on Oculus Quest, I often use the lightsaber as a fencing sword. Funny enough Count Doku used his light saber as a fencing sword with a pseudo pistol grip (like in sport fencing).
@@Yopee historically spears and hast weapons were the best option for foot soldiers.
In lore, count dooku uses a fencing/rapier form and considered to be the best duelist. However it could be weaker against blaster shots. most jedi faced enemies with blasters not another lightsaber
It would be interesting to see yoy guys look at and attempt to fight using the in universe lightsaber forms, although that would probably be a lot of work to organize 😅
I’d say Sabre fencing style is probably the easiest to learn and utilize over kendo. I think Asian styles overall like kali, wushu, and krabi krabong are best with single edge swords and not lightsabers
in my opinion the best style for lightsaber is the one the wielder is best trained in
Someone desperately needs to go to cloud city and steel some of their handrails to make a guard for these sabers. That said, Staff all the way. Except put just one blade on the end of a long shaft like a glaive. It would rule the universe.
Lightsaber pike is by a canon weapon
@@MrLightningbob So sad it's woefully under utilized T.T
That was absolutely beautiful and wonderful!! Thank you!!!
The double bladed saber would be terrifying to face irl
It would be, though it's not exceptionally effective against single opponents who are prepared for it.
yeah, it's all just a mental thing. it's terrifying to see but actually the easiest to fight against in a 1 vs 1 scenario compared to just a plain old single saber or 2 sabers.
MORE PLEASE !!!!
study actual Jedi fighting styles and test them.
Ahsoka in particular
Sadly, there are no "real" fighting styles in the forms--but the good news is that their descriptions were largely inspired by real-world martial arts swordsmanship!
This makes the nerd in me so happy!
it's probably best to have something similar to a polearm, considering the range advantage, as long as you have the space. For actual techniques tho.. no clue.. I'm watching these videos cause they are kinda cool, but I have no actual knowledge:')
Shadiversity has some ways to make the saberstaff viable even against a single lightsaber or even dual wielding lightsabers
When she realizes they can attach two sabers together. 😍
While a light, thrust-centered style would probably win the day, to call it "fencing" greatly overlooks the reliance on rules in place of personal safety. No one would fight with a light saber as though it were an Olympic saber; that all-in attack is just too dangerous.
The complete lack of hand protection and the way actual light sabers would bounce or bind would certainly make it different than anything we have seen. It's hard to say whether one or two hands on the sword would be best. Two certainly looked safest in this test.
A lot would depend on specifics of "blade" weight, balance point, and recoil from another saber. Oh, and diameter of the "blade" would matter a lot. If it were as fine as a foil, fine movements and avoiding parries while attacking would be key. If it were as thick as current dueling lightsabers, then a two-handed kendo approach would probably be best.
You guys have the right idea but forgot to thrust your hands to force-push. Really adds a new dimension to lightsaber fights
Red one has the better aim and the blue one has the better style in my opinion 😊
style? you mean where all he ever does is tap people on the top of the head?
ooh yeah...that's amazing -_- 🙄
@@mishmashmedleyNo I mean his spins looking cool and his other moves. Thats it. Hes not the better one. This is because I say the Red one has better aim :)
It’s not a spear…it’s a staff.
Yeah, but no because a staff can be touched and manipulated over its entire length.
@@axelhopfinger533 it’s a lightsaber staff. A futuristic staff. Hence the way Darth Maul uses it, just like a Bo Staff.
@@francosalinas4459 You can use a bo staff both to bludgeon with the ends or to jab like a spear with the tip and according reach. You can quickly change grip and reach with it. Can't do that with such a weapon you can only touch on a relatively short center handle. Also a bo staff has a certain innate flexibility while this does not.
I prefer Makashi, but each to their own.
Something like rapier fencing would be the best.
Out of curiosity, is Star Wars particularly popular in Korea?
Did the wide swings help at all? It looked like it exposed you to attacks and would be a pointless (maybe reckless) amount of force.
I like this !
Nice
keep in mind that the weight/handling of a Foi or an Epée in fencing is completely different from this lightsaber weapon. a short Sabre might have a similar feel, but still...
I'm pretty sure fencing would not be the appropriate technique for this kind of swordfighting.
Awesome!
two - with and emphasis on thrusts
Fencing for sure. Hands will be the primary targets for lightsabers.
Any style that requires more strength than a flick of the wrist would be a waste of energy and easily exploitable.
Even against Beskar armor, fencing would allow for better assaults on the gaps.
If single saber vs single saber, I think kenjutsu wins over kendo, fencing, Kali, and HEMA. Because of single handed and double handed techniques both in attack and defense.
It's hard to test, because the blade should be weightless. (I know Star Wars canon disagrees, but that's dumb lol) A weightless blade would be like a flashlight. A VR controller. You don't need to generate force, just wiggle your wrist and spam 100 cuts in a second. Like early VR games xD Even the European fencing shown here couldn't break the habit of generating force.
It's hard to imagine the mechanics of blocking and leverage with weightless blades. It seems like a two-handed grip would still help with leverage...right...? But would that be necessary or effective against VR waggling?
If laser blade has zero weight, I think it's nonsense to use it 2 handed, I would say that some rapier-like fencing style would be the most logical for the real lightsaber. Something like Count Dooku was using, minus nonsense spinning around. 🙂 One touch with lightsaber can be deadly, so you want the best reach and the most slim body siluete when you stay towards your opponent, one handed rapier fencing style is the best I believe. Or some asian alternatives, they also had one handed swords I guess. Problem with testing it with replica lightsabers is that you can't simulate zero weight blade and perfect point of balance as real lightsaber would have.
If its a real lightsaber, Style wouldn't matter, as the "blades" would never stop each other. Distance would be king. Blocking could be completely neglected. you'd just lose the limbs.
if those were "real" lightsabers, they would be plasma blades which repel each other for some reason and cannot pass through one another. Because physics are different in a galaxy far, far away i guess?
Shinkendo. please do a lightsaber fight with kenjutsu.
Best style in light Sabre nunchucks 🤪
HEMA would be a really good style for it
Since a single touch could incapacitate a foe, I'd say fencing. Just a touch even in a non-vital area, is going to cause intense pain and severely injure. A "tap" on the head would be enough to kill. A tap on the shoulder would incapacitate them. The fastest first hit wins. I'd also say the light saber-spear which has a longer reach.
I'd almost agree, but the issue is defending from counterattacks. Double hits are insanely common here.
So Form 2 is your bet.
A long spear shaft would have to be made of Beskar, Phrik, or some other lightsaber-resistant material. Otherwise, if the opponent manages to get their blade past yours, they can destroy your weapon instantly.
@@DarkwarriorJ Yes in this case two is probably better than one. But a fencing style with two would work as well. You can even see in this video how the one that had two used one sword to thrust and the other would swing.
@@MCSPARTAN501 Something to consider too is that we are talking about supernatural force users who can fight well beyond a normal fighter’s ability. Logic doesn’t work well with this. If logic was used, then they would also have energy/beskar shields as well.
dual wield for sure
Great video theme :)
Have you tried throwing the lightsaber? 😂
thanks
Fun
It's interesting to me that noone in Canon uses their lightsabre like a rapier. In theory momentum isn't a factor, you could just sway the weapon back and forth in front of you.
dooku actually does kinda use his saber like a rapier. at least that's what form II was supposed to be.
also, there is a style that takes it to the extreme and involves turning on and turning off the saber constantly to slip past the opponent's saber and stab them using less movement compared to leaving the saber on the whole time
Nunchaku vs broadsword please
Best for what? In Star Wars the Jedi also have their own forms meant for specific purposes;
Form I - Shii-cho - A balanced form, no strengths, but no particular weaknesses.
Form II - Makashi - A form that resolved around lightsaber duels, very similar to Fencing
Form III - Soresu - Defensive and economical, meant to protect you, great against blasters
Form IV - Ataru - Acrobatic. Explosive. Mirrors crouching tiger aspect of those martial arts
Form V - Shien/Djem So - Control. Flowing. this one emphasizes using your enemy's strength to your advantage, similar to Akido and similar arts
Form VI - Niman - Shii-cho's evolution, or a unification of the previous styles. Balanced
Form VII - Juyo/Vaapad - Unpredictable. Ferocious. I don't know of a style that fits this perfectly. There is a focus on the mindset here though, so it might be close enough Bushido.
So, really. If it's against other Lightsaber users, I'd say Makashi, Djem So, or Juyo would compete for that place; Fencing or Akido
To add to this,
Form I is the basic form with all the fundamentals. It is also focused on disarming opponents. Visually, it looks like kendo to me.
Form II is the form based on fencing and is said to be the best for lightsaber duels but poorly designed against blasters. This is best represented by Count Dooku. His actor, Christopher Lee, was a real-life fencer.
Form III is purely defensive and designed to strike only when an opening presents itself. Obi-Wan Kenobi is a master of this form, and his opening stances often look like he's using a _jian._ But his style as an old man, especially in the rematch with Darth Maul in _Star Wars: Rebels,_ is based on real kendo. In principle, this form is based on being water.
Form IV is like the lightsaber form of Long Fist, part of Shaolin martial arts. It is very acrobatic, energetic, and uses kicks. It is used by Yoda because of his height disadvantage. Form II users call it impractical, but Form IV makes some sense if you have superhuman reflexes and agility and are facing many enemies, some with guns. Firebending in Avatar is also based on Long Fist, so there are parallels.
Form V is a form emphasizing creating openings for counter-attacks, intended to balance offense and defense better than Form III and IV. It is often described as using wide swings and powerful, heavy attacks, but I don't think this makes much sense since a duelist should avoid telegraphing their moves, and lightsabers have no weight and don't need heavy swings to injure.
Visually, Form V is best represented by the choreography in Episode V between Luke and Darth Vader in Cloud City, which borrows some techniques from Historical European Martial Arts (HEMA). So, Form V can said to be the HEMA form.
Form VI is supposed to be the "jack-of-all-trades", "master of none" form. There's no good detail or representation of it. It is said that many Jedi died in battle using this form because it is made for diplomats who need minimal combat training and not warriors.
Form VII has two variations, Juyo and Vaapad. This is the "berserker" form, designed to overwhelm opponents with frenzied, unpredictable, rapid attacks and sheer power.
Visual representation of Juyo is not very consistent even though most Sith (dark siders) use it. The best example is probably Darth Sidious (Emperor Palpatine)'s style, which uses a lot of weird movements and sudden "staccato" stabs and cuts.
Vaapad was invented by Mace Windu as a powerful form that skirts the edge of the dark side. Using it requires getting into the mindset of relishing, enjoying the thrill of battle, like a Saiyan in DBZ I guess. This is the most superhuman form because it involves techniques like swinging the lightsaber so fast, it creates a "shield" around the user.
Juyo vs. Vaapad appears in Episode III in the duel between Darth Sidious and Mace Windu, but the choreography is poor due to the actors' physical limitations and doesn't accurately show their principles and techniques.
In general, choreography of lightsaber techniques is inconsistent and often doesn't make much sense, but the above info is how we can approximate them to real-world martial arts.
Yep!
That's due to the forms being made as descriptors and not true-to-life, as the Force empowers much of the Jedi or Sith's ability as a baseline. They do draw heavy inspiration from real-world martial arts, however.
For our real-world lightsaber fighting, it really comes down to calling your hits and judging if they were shallow or true. Using whatever set of techniques you choose will make it easier or harder, but anything can be viable if it is stable and practiced.
Bringing the styles down to a Force-less world, Makashi probably becomes more effective, since it keeps all its advantages and isn't diminished by the absence of special powers (like Ataru or Niman would)
The best style for a deadly sword with no armour protection available: Tenshin Shōden Katori Shintō-ryū or Shinkage ryū
GOD
What style is the best with the Light sword? Chinese Jian Technics. XingyiJian for example.
The bo/spear one looked good to me. You could attack with both ends and had more angles. In the literature it says thats why double bladed lightsabers were so dangerous
you'd cut your own arm off c:
It makes sense with the sort of Hollywood/video game logic, where fighters all stay in-range the whole battle and the winner is the one with the fanciest angles. That's a habit I had to train myself to break. Manipulating distance is a major part of dueling or small-scale skirmishes.
Being able to flip a double-sided weapon (like a staff) is a sort of 'surprise move,' similar to the one-handed 'release thrust' at 2:43. This can help marginally, but it's more situational than 'normal moves.'
A single-bladed weapon should be able to hit all the same angles with decent timing.
@@Densoro True but theres also the psyche advantage. Think back to when darth maul first appeared in starwars episode 1. If you felt an oh shit moment when the 2nd blade appears thats what Im referring to and its useful in combat even if for a moment
the saber staff is the weakest weapon for dueling a single opponent. it has a giant glaring weakness in the hilt so the staff wielder will always have to keep their hands on the move or out of range of the opponent's saber to stand a chance.
The only advantage a double-bladed sword-staff thingy might have is, when facing two opponents simultaneously and rapidly jabbing at them in an alternating fashion to keep them at bay. But even then it'd be more likely to hurt yourself with it while swinging and twirling it around wildly, since it limits your arm movement range and forces you to move and pivot with your whole body constantly. And the one thing you don't want to do in a real sword fight is doing pirouettes and turning your back to the enemy.
Also a single well placed strike at the center of the hilt or the mostly unprotected hands there and it's over. Better to have a single blade your hand and body can always be kept as far behindd as possible while always have the pointy end point towards the enemy.
For your *next* video, why not test the different fighting styles of *Soulcalibur* ? There's a *lot* there to test even if you've *technically* tested some of them already like Siegfried (Berserk sword), and Zasalamel (scythe).
In fact, *because* you've technically tested a couple already, it honestly seems like a *natural* next test.
I wonder if just "touch" would be an accurate depiction of energy weapons. I'd think you'd still have glancing blows where full contact isn't made (and being able to literally split a person in two with connecting hit).
If it is just touch, whatever moves fastest wins.
But a lightsaber is a saber at all and must be handled like one, I mean Fencing is useful but a lightsaber is not a foil. I think kenjutsu (not kendo) would be right.
Where is the point of balance on a real lightsaber? It would balance closer to the hand, at a minimum, and probably nearer the center of the weapon. They probably made the first lightsabers more topheavy to accommodate people who trained with swords. In addition to being very fast and killing with a touch, the lightsaber would do devastating damage if it fell through your body. A jedi would want to make sure to end their opponent so that the opponent's lightsaber would fall safely.
Just joking, but if you have lightsabers aka plasma sabers, just use plasma guns 🤣
Just realized that its almost only worth it to aim for the head because without hands the sword could still fall on your head 😂
Fencer style=makashi. Kendoka style=soresu.
The crossguard lightsabers are probably the best considering you don't swing them around like a prick.
there are seven lightsaber forms show which sword style work with these lightsaber forms.
What lightsabers are those and where can I get one?
Just give a filipino stick fighters using a lightsaber
🙂
Excellent demonstration of the Saberstaff, even if you did dismiss it at the end because it wasn't _exactly_ like a spear. A lot of people simply dismiss this weapon as impractical on sight, but as someone who's actually used it I find it to actually be quite versatile, although it does demand a more active approach to defense. What you did seem to miss in your analysis that was very apparent in the footage was that the saberstaff was able to attack very quickly compared to a single blade, using single motions for attacks that otherwise would have required multiple motions with a single blade.
I would honestly say give it some more practice, and don't think of it as any existing weapon. The saberstaff is its own thing, it's not a spear, it's not a sword, and it's not a bo staff. Its closest equivalent would be european polearms, but even then it's not a direct comparison.
remember this is why only jedi really use lightsabers because unlike us normal plebs they have two benefits all stemming from the force that we completely lack. a significantly upped luck state and plot armor (aka the force will pull strings to make sure they live)