Generally, schools of kenjutsu that regularly spar do so under the "killing blow" is what stops the engagement, whilst kendo works on the "point" system, so in terms of competitive sparring kendo wins, but if it were a real duel between swordsmen? most likely kenjutsu wins, kenjutsu goes for the killing blow, kendo goes for the point.
It is strange to me that you think that that the kendo criteria for a valid strike (yuko datotsu) do not constitute a killing (or at least finishing) blow. If anything I would think the kendoka disadvantaged by the habit of ignoring indecisive attacks.
The point is the killing blow. Like the other friend said the weakness of the kendo "teaching style" would be theoratically that it ignores non decisive wounding hits and is focused on just the blows that will end the fight.
Hey, you’re doing a lot for cross cultural weapon arts and I really love your work, may I make a suggestion for following videos: Use colored sashes (traditionally red vs blue) to denote fighters of different schools [Edit: different *styles* of weapon arts, even if they are trained by the same school of combat.], especially when they are using very similar kit. (equipment) It was hard with jump cuts in video and how similar each fighter’s gear was to each other, to follow which fighter was the Kendo fighter, and which was the Kenjutsu fighter.
@@weaponism my apologies, perhaps instead of different schools, a sash representing each different *style* on display, even if they are from the same school. Edit: and I know you are relying on translating tools and a media team. Sash is not the same thing as belt, in martial arts context. It’s [sash] is an ornament that does not say anything about a fighter’s skill. Just a way to tell fighters apart (difference).
The taller dark blue Kendoka use Kendo, shorter black Kendoka use Kenjutsu. A red & blue armband can work too. I dont know maybe its uploader's subtle way to test viewer's ability to see which one is which?
Your idea is a tested and proven method, most martial arts do that. For the moment you can try to identify them by looking at the back of their heads. One is white while the other is red.
@@leokim1458 Thank you, that is exactly why I suggested it. Weapon MMA has no real standards yet, but red vs blue is a good, and proven standard, that will carry through to what @Weaponism is doing with their work.
Both practicioners have such precise body movement. Even in slow-motion the cuts, deflects and the ways their bodies follow look astonishingly perfect. One of my favourite videos so far from you!
Love the comments about what Kendo and Kenjutsu are from people whose deepest experience in the arts stems from playing a few video games. The two arts are joined at the hip and complements of each other not competitors.
I like how both of them are aware enough to realise when they got hit first and then stop their own attack instead of "seeking revenge" by throwing an afterblow. Good Sportsmanship, great sparring partners! 👍
Except that's what would happen in a real fight? What's the point of scoring a killing blow if you yourself will die afterwards to the Nachschlag? The opponent won't magically stop their attack and it won't disappear into the ether. This is one of the major problems in modern weapon arts.
@@kodain Lmao. Since no one runs around with a katana trying to kill you, I think following the rules of the sport is good. And kendo isn't a 'modern martial art' it's been around since the 1919s if not even before then. I'm just dating it back when it apparently became an actual sport. And sportsmanship is something a lot of Americans lack. I've been doing kendo for two years now and I've seen more Americans try to go for the revenge strike so many times it's hard to keep track. This is a sport. Respect it and its rules. Also the traditions behind it. If you wanna play 'real combat' then do it in your head. Whenever I see someone go for the revenge strike it kinda pisses me off cause they know the rules, and it's clear they're just being a poor sport.
@@MindBloopler Kendo is a watered down simulation of someone attacking you with a sword, trying to kill you. Anything 20th century is gendai: It's a modern combat sport. Yes, those are the rules for kendo, but they're not doing pure kendo here. As for history and tradition, kendo stems from gekiken, which in turn was a safer way to spar but still maintaining more elements of kenjutsu. Gekiken lastly then stems from kenjutsu, and in kenjutsu you will have to watch for an afterblow. If you want to practise a sport, go for it, but if you want to actually practise combat arts, then not including an afterblow is dumb.
@@kodain kendo is about the point system. One tap not room enough for an after blow. since that tap means you lost the round. So its not stupid for there not to be a after blow. Kendo is about skill and precision, so that you can perfect your attacks not for you to brawl without style. If it had an after blow like you think it should, no one would give a fuck about trying to avoid an attack which would defeat the whole purpose of blocking, evading, or deflecting and countering. Kendo is good as it is. Since once again it is a sport. If you want to practice an art where you must go for the vitals of a human, then go for kenjutsu. The objective of Kenjutsu is to learn how to kill or harm an opponent using a sword, whereas Kendo is used more for personal development and discipline. As you can clearly see the difference between the two. I'm taking kenjutsu next but I need the discipline first before I try it.
@@MindBloopler "brawl without style." Any real fight will be messy. This isn't the movies. It's a very Japanese thing to do things with elegance, but for combat that goes out the window immediately. Again, if that's how kendo wants to do it, go ahead. This video wasn't pure kendo, however. I fail to see why you would ignore defence if an afterblow was a possibility. If anything, it's what will get you to cover yourself after a strike. HEMA does this all the time, and it works splendidly. That being said, fighting without armour has been described as suicide by several masters throughout the years, because aiuchi is very common. In HEMA, which also uses a point system, aiuchi doesn't count, and for any hit to count, you need to protect yourself from the afterblow. There is zero meaning in you getting in a hit if they kill you the second after. If you want to try kenjutsu, just go with kenjutsu. There's no need for you to do kendo first. Discipline will come with any art.
Awesome! I love it! Make another video like this in an open location, like a park etc. It would be great if every Kendo school also practiced Kenjutsu.
I wouldn’t say “kendo is weak” kendo is just an over simplified and “sportified” version of Kenjitsu they’re just used for different events. Kenjutsu is a battlefield martial art.. kendo is for the Olympics.. they should be considered equals in different realms of thought.. but if you boil them down to practicality, kenjutsu is the better way of defending yourself with a sword, because it doesn’t rely on “points scored” it relies on putting the opponent in a body bag so you get to go home safely and in one piece
I think their calling Kendo "weak" is more of a translation issue than anything else. In Korean, from what I can see (I don't speak Korean, so take it with a grain of salt), strong and weak are synonymous with good and bad, respectively. And the context they're trying to put it in is combative ability, near as I can tell.
@@Nuru3754 The community is very split on this. I don't think that any martial arts sport has been happy with the changes made to join the Olympics. -Judo had leg grabs and ground grappling removed to distinguish it from wrestling, and a time limit introduced for better television. -TKD had punches removed to distinguish it from boxing. -Karate had knock outs removed, the recent gold medalist won by being knocked out. Kendo has many asthetic scoring criteria related to edge alignment, strength of the strike, and awareness of the opponent which would need to be codified for Olympic style rule legislation.
In terms of techniques, kenjutsu surely got an upper hand cause they have combo sets and off Kendo rules match moves. But in terms of speed, Kendo can be quite menacing since their eyes and body were trained on the prize (points). However Kenjutsu still got an upper hand since the tenacity of Kendo to gain points makes them ditch their defence in order to attack. Kenjutsu prioritise deflection and parry before striking. Both are good arts, but one is martial/combat arts while the other is sparring/competitive sport arts.
I prefer the kenjutsu techniques in the last video where there was more grappling and slicing at close range which I think is closer to battlefield sword dueling.
It is noted that most Ko-Ryu Bujutsu do engage exclusively in Kata it should be noted that there are also Ko-Ryu that do engage in Sparring. It should also be noted that back in the day during the Muromachi Period there was lots of Pressure Testing this was known as Shobu and/or Shiai. There where also practices called Musha Shugyo(Warriors Journey) and Taryu Jiai(Competition's that Lacked Restriction's). Bujutsu and Budo Should complement each other Bujutsu's practical Skill and Application and Budo's Pressure Testing and Competitivenes.
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I love this channel, thanks for the purchase link too
Thanks for another really good session 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 I think people should experience all matters of training styles but if I had to pick out of these 2 I'm going to choose Kenjutsu
think of kendo as little more than high percentage move spam: a kendoka with excellent footwork can defeat 90% of swordsmen on Earth with the "men" cut to the head. kenjutsu teaches one to actually fight with a sword, so more ground is covered on the many ways a fight can develop (including grappling, kicking, elbowing, shouldering) vs high percentage move spam. this deeper understanding won't necessarily translate when demonstrating techniques with toy swords. it will certainly translate with live blades in combat.
That under the chin strike had to be really disrespectful in actual combat, imagine that. Any of these strikes are deadly! I especially like when they parry an incoming attack after they already slashed their opponent. We can only imagine what mortal combat was like.
These fights are insane , I love this channel , I would like to see ether Chinese jian vs katana or scimitar vs anything !! Also would like to see shuriken !!!
There are a high amount of double kills. More than what I had thought. My sword skill is limited to kali and what is taught in the Bujinkan. You guys are far more sophisticated in sword. Keep up the good work!
In kendo double kills are thrown out, and the point system favors attack over defense so there are no real consequences to getting hit unless that hit is unanswered. Kali looks very effective, although I have never understood why your sparring looks so different from your flow exercises. Could you explain it?
@@Ianmar1 Flow drills are like kata/forms and energy drills (similar to chi sao in Wing Chun). It's a tool box builder to help build coordination and timing. Sparring is different from school to school. When I was Inosanto Lacoste and Doce Pares in the USA, armor was worn. DBMA in NYC and when it was offered in the Atlantic City area (NJ) sparring was unarmored save headgear and gloves. Throwing, ground grappling, knees and elbows were permitted. It is sparring so measures of safety are taken. I currently live in Japan and I train with the Pekiti Tirsia group in Tokyo and Yokohama. Sparring is unarmored but done is degrees building up from each other and limiting things to build a specific skill set. This is based on my experiences. I hope this helps.
The thing about kendo and kenjutsu is the idea into it. In kendo, you only have 4 parts of the body to score a point. So you have the head, the wrists, the stomach and the neck (only in a straight attack). When we talk about kenjutsu we are talking about how to survive and kill with a katana. So we can cut any part of the body, you can have multiples types of defenses, parries and movements. In kendo, if someone tries to hit you in the head but it ends up hitting your shoulder, the match continues. The same scenario in kenjutsu means your are dead because your shoulder is cut open. Kendokas practice only these four attacks and they get reeeaaally fast and precise, but you can also get that in kenjutsu and still have all of the multiples ways to deal with all the other things that can happen in a real life and death situation. I've practiced both and I love both. But I will always put my money in kenjutsu.
The point is, the skilled Kendoka's Men Strike is hard to defend from the standpoint of Kenjutsu users who have not learned kendo. On the other hand, attacks by Kenjutsu users are surprisingly easy to defend from the standpoint of Kendoka. (Of course, I think Kenjutsu has an edge on attacks from very close range.) The Kenjutsu user in the last video was also the one who trained Kendo. Today, most of the Kenjutsu Dojo, which has been proven to be productive, is also working with Kendo. From the beginning, kendo is not just a sport, but a form similar to MMA, which combines excellent Kenjutsu techniques that have been proven to be practical in the past. Who would you bet on if you sparred with a person who trained only traditional martial arts like Chinese martial arts? So I'm betting on Kendo when both of them have trained their own martial arts. (Think of Kendoka players who are beyond human categories, such as Eiga Naoki and Miyazaki Masahiro.)
@@Vergil06 I disagree. I practiced kenjutsu over six years and have had this same time of practice on using kenjutsu against other styles of sword, spear, axe and shield fighting. If you only use kendo moves, you will lose. It is easy to defend when there is only for angles of attack you have to be aware of.
@@MinadoCoelhoI'm sorry, but I've also trained Kendo and Kenjutsu for more than 10 years. Every time there's a debate about Kendo's practicality, everyone uses beginners as examples of videos. Kenjutsu, who has not trained Kendo, will easily collapse if more than 5 Dan of experienced Kendoka experts come. It seems that there are so many people living in fantasy only in martial arts using weapons. Like people who used to fantasize that if you train Wing Chun hard, you can beat MMA fighters. Just because there are no rules, get rid of the prejudice that you are always strong. (I wrote it through a translator. Please understand that the context may not be smooth..)
excelente video como siempre, hasta tienen la Frostmure, practico Kendo y quisiera comprar la espada que usan acá, pero el link de compra no hacen envíos a Colombia
Oye, una cosa, yo también soy de colombia, y quisiera practicar algo, estoy entre el Kendo y el kenjutsu pero las dos de ven muy bien, ¿Tu porque empezaste a practicar Kendo y como te a ido?
@@larrycapija2844 práctico Kendo y karate Kyokushin Kai, la mayor diferencia entre Kendo y kenjutsu sería que el Kendo es más "deportivo" ya que no es válido cortar al hombro o a las piernas, en cambio en el kenjutsu es más completo Algo similar a Taekwondo deportivo o MMA en uno no verás derribos, llaves o sumisión Ya depende de la escuela que encuentres en tu región, Ahora, tampoco es tan difícil el entrenar Kendo en un dojo y luego hacer kenjutsu por tu cuenta
Puede hacer la compra en una empresa que hace compras por internet. Ellos le habilitan un P.O. Box en Miami, USA en donde recibe el producto y de ahí lo envían a su país.
@@larrycapija2844 En que ciudad te encuentras? si deseas empezar kendo en colombia podria ayudar a vincularte con un dojo. Cualquier cosa me avisas, un saludo!
I love both disciplines What I hate are morons who say shit like "traditional martial arts are bullshit and don't work in a real fight" Like bro he's got a f**king SWORD!
Kendo seems like the safty Version designed for competion ! In my eyes that makes it not better or worse, just different! Altough just for estatic reason alone i would prefer Kenjutsu as Kendo seems to have more in common with fanceing than with the art it is derrived from which is kenjutsu ! I would say the sportsman choses kendo and artist Kenjutsu!
i think that in a fight between kendo and kenjutsu trainees the defense aspect is far more important than the offense and that's because kendo doesn't really have defence the trainees are not taught blocking because pushing forward and delivering blows is the only important thing (you can see kendoka in the video using only one kind of parry that isn't purely defensive either because it has to include a blow right after) and i think this is the most important difference between the two even more so than kendo (being a sport) focuses on points and limits the areas where you're allowed to hit
This is incorrect. Kendo is mostly defence (im new to kendo, but I get trained by few of the best kendokas in my country). There are parries and beats and other type of blocks and evasion, but the sport kendo is extremely fast pace and its hard to pick up on.
@@fryderykchopin3974 I'm sorry but no my claim that kendo doesn't have defence might've been a little bit overboard but it's nowhere close to what you're saying first of all being new to kendo can mean you started training anywhere from a week to a year ago but i'm going to assume that you are training in a bogu so you're a few months in at minimum now just because kirikaeshi has blocks doesn't mean they are used in combat blocking is obviously good for exercising but when it comes to fighting it just doesn't exist I am no kendo master yet but my club has best kendokas in my country and well good luck seeing them block an attack while they're fighting the fact that you technically can block and you won't be disqualified for it doesn't mean you should let alone that kendo is "all about defense" in my club we're simply not taught to block because blocking leaves you very open especially your kote and even if you manage to block one attack a competent opponent will simply attack you a second time this time hitting you on your kote or do or he will faint an attack and go for men anyways as soon as you'll try to come back to kamae what i've been told by my sensei is that there is no defence in kendo everything you're doing is aggressive now there is parrying but it's not anything essential like you're saying and i really do not want to be rude but what you're saying sounds like you're training a completely different sport
@@thenine895 I mean, I really bepends on the school right. My dojo does do alot of blocking and parrying. that is the way I am being thought. The way my dojo does it seems to work seeing my teacher has won a medal in the recent eu championship. Edit: I take no offence btw. I love learning different perspectives.
Kenjutsu is the art that Samurai used. Kenjutsu uses stances, parrying, killer slashes and blows. While kendo is more of a game. Kendo tries to aim for more of hitting for points while kenjutsu aims for blows that end a person. So It’s basically another art of the sword
From my perception, Kendo is Sport, Kenjutsu is Martial Art. But in real fight with real sword, Kenjutsu will have more ways to win because war is dirty & Kenjutsu fights dirty. The taller dark blue Kendoka use Kendo, the shorter black Kendoka use Kenjutsu.
@@Ianmar1 I do noticed that, but one doesnt need to be a practitioner to emulate a movements. Even animals can emulate humans, emulation is a step in learning. They never claimed to be a Kenjutsu practitioner but I cant say that they have absolute zero knowledge about Kenjutsu.
Find a dojo that has both, or find two dojo with each. Most legitimate koryu only take on high ranked kendoka and iaidoka as students so cross training should not be a problem for either discipline. The dojo where I train kendo only accepts koryu students at 2dan iaido since the focus of the dojo leaders is koryu iaido (iaijutsu); I don't train iaido, so I don't train koryu but the community is very wholesome. Finding a legitimate koryu dojo near you may be difficult depending on where you live, however there is plenty of kenjutsu embedded in kendo and iaido kata if you are willing to study those deeply.
See the subtitle at 0:27, they are both using the kenjutsu encoded in kendo kata, neither have any other kenjutsu experience. Thus your estimation is right: heavily influenced by Itto Ryu, but not Itto Ryu.
This is exactly what a new art should be! Someone please create an art related to what HEMA does only with Samurai Kenjutsu. The traditional kata based art school styles are boring compared to this. SOMEONE START A SCHOOL WHERE YOU TRAIN REALISTIC MEDIEVAL JAPAN KENJUTSU!
You know what I mean, no need to complicate. Someone else can be inspired by this and create a free art that embraces every aspect of kenjutsu, and let's you spar with ancient weapons :) Imagine the possibilities, wakizashi and spear handling as well! Kendo is restricted, and that is just a fact.
@@eccer What you just described: sword vs spear is called ishu-jiai, it is a lot of fun! Edit: ishu-jiai includes kendo, naginata (glaive), jukendo (bayonet), and tankendo (wakizashi), although naginataka are rare enough and the other two are very rare.
That'd be great since japanese swordsmanship has mostly been sportified through kendo. At least koryu schools and iaido clubs exist though. Imagine the UFC but with medieval weapons lmao. There's buhurt but it's not really the same.
Kendo and kenjutsu are different because they are meant to be two sides of one coin. Kenjutsu is the art of using the sword, kendo is the art of mental discipline with the sword. That is why kendo always seems too rigid, too traditional like a ritual that must follow a set path. You should know both of you want to be an amazing swordsman. One disciplines your mind, the other disciplines the body.
Truly analysing:kendo mostly us straight and stab attacks......where kenjutsu uses more slash and blocks....kendo weekness is side slash,where for kenjutsu its stab...
검도가 진검술에 비해 약하다... 뭐 이견이 있겠지만 상대방을 먼저 가격 하기만 하면 득점하는 룰은 실제상황과는 괴리가 있습니다. 적이 칼을 맞으면서도 칼을 휘둘러 나를 상하게 할 수 있기 때문에 적에게 칼을 넣으면서도 상대방 칼을 가로막거나 걷어내거나 쳐내거나 피하거나 해야합니다. 죽도와 호구를 쓰는 현대 검도는 그것을 많이 간과하죠. 고류 검도에는 그런게 철저히 고려되어 있구요.
Why do proponents of historical fencing always assume that sport fencers don't know the difference between an opening where they might be able to make a clean attack and close down the counterattack and an opening in which they can certainly make a clean attack and close down the counterattack? Why do they always assume that sport fencers would use the same tactics if lives are at stake?
It's wrong question. The question should be ,,is typical kenjutsu practice weak compared to typical kendo practice?". And the answer is yes. Yes, because kata alone won't teach anybody combat. Combat is learned through far more rigorous, demanding and humbling exercises than some memory-based sequences; which kendo also has - as you've stated. Thank you all, best regards :P Love your content!
@@Veepee92 for sure, but this doesn't change the fact that the only reaction type that kata teaches is simple reaction, and does not teach 6 other reaction types that combat consist of: reaction with choice, differential, switching reaction, to a moving object, intuitive and to pre-stimulus.
@@Veepee92 what exactly contains this ,,chunk"? Which reaction types kata covers apart from simple reaction? Sure, kata may cover, except simple reaction, distance menagement, operational memory, and sport-specific ,,cardio". But I've never seen any kata covering six other reaction types different than simple reaction. And these are necessary in combat. And so in sharp weapon duel between kenjutsu ,,only-kata-no-spar" guy and regular kendoka, second one would kill the first one 8 times out of 10. It's like difference between karate kata champion and a kickboxer. Let me put this straight: while performing kata, do you make decisions and choices? I've never seen nor did one which featured choices during exercise. And so, if exercise does not feature decision-making, then it does not teach reactions with choice, differential, switching or intuitive - at all! - and reactions to a moving object and pre-stimulus are also debatable there.
80% of kendo players experience tendon and ligament damage from improper movement. kendo also does not allow for variation in style or training other than one "exception". Kendo is a game made out of corpse of gekiken, which was not a martial art but a sport for martial practitioners to test their styles against eachother.
Disagree with you. As a Japanese kenshi (4dan kendo, 3dan Tankendo). All you said about kendo is the opposite. I train at police dojo and we do takedowns. There are many cross trainings with other sword schols, and even with Jukendo. So your statement is false. Second thing, about the injuries it is is true taht they occure, but that's because over training. 1000 suburi before the training is a bit a lot, don't you think? Hayasuburi with one hand carying shinai or sometime bokuto is very hard. If you had trained kendo, you should know that. Shame on you for speaking nonsense. 嘘はだめです。
Totally incorrect information, and your percentages should come with sources. This type of post is always counter-productive to real discussions, as it’s obviously rooted in non-experiential judgement.
Was this all from sparring? Or was some/all of it choreo? Some of the exchanges looked a bit stilted, but I could see that being due to the kendo background or something.
Both guys here only do kendo. I believe the point of the video is to emphasize that all kendo students are required to learn a style of kenjutsu by way of kendo kata.
It really does matter where you hit, kendo has very limited target areas: top of the head, neck, forearms, and belly. Also, just touching is never enough, kendo has some of the strictest quality of strike criteria there is including: speed at impact (sai), edge alignment (ha-sugi), region of the shinai (monouchi), kinetic linking (kikentai no ichi), vigor (kiai), intention (kime), and awareness (zanshin).
These guys are amateur at best as a 2 time judo competitor n a 15 year sword master these guys I assume r just in hs filming out there sensi karate dojo so don't be to mean least they put in effort to document these fights regaurdless of skill a trained swords man can appreciate a weapon duel
Based on the video, the kendoka has a telegraphic pattern, too straight forward 70% of the strikes he hit the opponent is when he does non-telegraphic attacks. no defense, one hit strike, no combo. But I guess it always goes down to the wielder
This is a kendo channel, the people who run it are kendoka, their guests are from other styles. With that said, every koryu kenjutsu will strongly discourage you from attempting to study without a sensei. Go find a dojo in your area with an atmosphere that you like, and ask on koryu forums if it looks legitimate.
@@Ianmar1 i am kendoka my self and i have been doing kendo for 15 years, and i am intresting in practicing kenjutsu. In Russia i think i hardly manage to find a koryu kenjutsu dojo
@@Сергей-ф4ч3е You are not going to find many kenjutsu styles that will offer you that. I suppose that you will want one which either does kata with a fukuro shinai, or gekken. Those are not very common.
i wouldn't neccesarily call kendo weak compared to kenjutsu, rather it has the same relationship olympic fencing has to sports like HEMA obviously, olympic fencig is by no means very practical, but it still sprouts from the same branch as HEMA. kendo, like olympic fencing, has been changed over its lifetime to be more "competition" friendly and moved away from the "killing intent" its origins once had.
I am not sure. The difference in weight mostly just affects balance and forces you to improve your posture. You can do kendo-style small strikes with a heavy blade. Perhaps stopping for a follow-up is a bit harder.
Adding a heavier sword will favor the one with stronger muscle. This is not about strength, its about technique. In testing this particular subject, external factor should be eliminated, not added.
@@angryzombie8088 If you cannot wield a real sword, what's the point? A modern competitive shinai for men is about 600g, a katana is somewhere between 1000 and 1200g. That weight *will* affect the speed of the swing, how fast you can change a trajectory, and your recovery. If you cannot do it with a real sword, you're just playing around.
@@kodain omg are you seriously trying to compare a bamboo Shinai with a metal katana? Btw AR-15 weight is about 2.97kg. Anyway, I agree there will be slight difference in speed but I believe a Kendoka can handle those 1.2kg In case you didnt realize, in the video both Kendoka is using the same sword with same weight. With real sword, it will translate into a slightly slower speed with same result. Boken & Shinai is used to avoid fatal injury.
@@angryzombie8088 I fail to see why an AR-15 was brought up. If you've never trained to use a real sword, it will be very, very different. Your argument was that a real sword would favour the one with more muscle and that it was about technique. Knowing how to use a real blade *is* technique. In fact, it's what makes you become aware whether your technique is shite or not. If you don't know how to use your body, you will become tired very fast, strikes become heavier, which means harder to block, and they become harder to recover from once you do them. It also becomes much harder to do follow-up strikes or changing your trajectory. Furthermore, a metallic sword would stick or bind, although this is very hard to recreate without an edge on the weapon. Yes, it's for safety purposes, but a training weapon like that cannot be used if you truly wish to compare two sword arts.
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No. They are equally deadly and difficult to master.
hello, do you also have a link to the sheaths you bought?
Doesn’t seem to be a clear cut winner. They appear to be about the same. It’s almost like comparing Judo to Jujitsu. There’s not much difference.
@@eastoforion Second this request.
Generally, schools of kenjutsu that regularly spar do so under the "killing blow" is what stops the engagement, whilst kendo works on the "point" system, so in terms of competitive sparring kendo wins, but if it were a real duel between swordsmen? most likely kenjutsu wins, kenjutsu goes for the killing blow, kendo goes for the point.
u sir, deserve some likes
It is strange to me that you think that that the kendo criteria for a valid strike (yuko datotsu) do not constitute a killing (or at least finishing) blow. If anything I would think the kendoka disadvantaged by the habit of ignoring indecisive attacks.
The point is the killing blow. Like the other friend said the weakness of the kendo "teaching style" would be theoratically that it ignores non decisive wounding hits and is focused on just the blows that will end the fight.
Shiai and kumite mindest.
I would very much like you to link me to a school of kenjutsu that regularly spars, because I haven't found any.
Hey, you’re doing a lot for cross cultural weapon arts and I really love your work, may I make a suggestion for following videos:
Use colored sashes (traditionally red vs blue) to denote fighters of different schools [Edit: different *styles* of weapon arts, even if they are trained by the same school of combat.], especially when they are using very similar kit. (equipment)
It was hard with jump cuts in video and how similar each fighter’s gear was to each other, to follow which fighter was the Kendo fighter, and which was the Kenjutsu fighter.
both are kendoka👍
@@weaponism my apologies, perhaps instead of different schools, a sash representing each different *style* on display, even if they are from the same school.
Edit: and I know you are relying on translating tools and a media team.
Sash is not the same thing as belt, in martial arts context. It’s [sash] is an ornament that does not say anything about a fighter’s skill. Just a way to tell fighters apart (difference).
The taller dark blue Kendoka use Kendo, shorter black Kendoka use Kenjutsu. A red & blue armband can work too.
I dont know maybe its uploader's subtle way to test viewer's ability to see which one is which?
Your idea is a tested and proven method, most martial arts do that.
For the moment you can try to identify them by looking at the back of their heads.
One is white while the other is red.
@@leokim1458 Thank you, that is exactly why I suggested it.
Weapon MMA has no real standards yet, but red vs blue is a good, and proven standard, that will carry through to what @Weaponism is doing with their work.
Both practicioners have such precise body movement. Even in slow-motion the cuts, deflects and the ways their bodies follow look astonishingly perfect. One of my favourite videos so far from you!
I thought it looked a bit choreographed. One makes a cut, doesn't withdraw right away, etc.
They both train kendo. Kendo teaches 100% commitment in your strikes.
Love the comments about what Kendo and Kenjutsu are from people whose deepest experience in the arts stems from playing a few video games. The two arts are joined at the hip and complements of each other not competitors.
Best comment.
Yes if you grip it RIGHT, then you know it might be coming from hands but is it coming from WRISTS? I hope not forearms.
I like how both of them are aware enough to realise when they got hit first and then stop their own attack instead of "seeking revenge" by throwing an afterblow. Good Sportsmanship, great sparring partners! 👍
Except that's what would happen in a real fight? What's the point of scoring a killing blow if you yourself will die afterwards to the Nachschlag? The opponent won't magically stop their attack and it won't disappear into the ether. This is one of the major problems in modern weapon arts.
@@kodain Lmao. Since no one runs around with a katana trying to kill you, I think following the rules of the sport is good. And kendo isn't a 'modern martial art' it's been around since the 1919s if not even before then. I'm just dating it back when it apparently became an actual sport. And sportsmanship is something a lot of Americans lack. I've been doing kendo for two years now and I've seen more Americans try to go for the revenge strike so many times it's hard to keep track. This is a sport. Respect it and its rules. Also the traditions behind it. If you wanna play 'real combat' then do it in your head. Whenever I see someone go for the revenge strike it kinda pisses me off cause they know the rules, and it's clear they're just being a poor sport.
@@MindBloopler Kendo is a watered down simulation of someone attacking you with a sword, trying to kill you. Anything 20th century is gendai: It's a modern combat sport. Yes, those are the rules for kendo, but they're not doing pure kendo here. As for history and tradition, kendo stems from gekiken, which in turn was a safer way to spar but still maintaining more elements of kenjutsu. Gekiken lastly then stems from kenjutsu, and in kenjutsu you will have to watch for an afterblow.
If you want to practise a sport, go for it, but if you want to actually practise combat arts, then not including an afterblow is dumb.
@@kodain kendo is about the point system. One tap not room enough for an after blow. since that tap means you lost the round. So its not stupid for there not to be a after blow. Kendo is about skill and precision, so that you can perfect your attacks not for you to brawl without style. If it had an after blow like you think it should, no one would give a fuck about trying to avoid an attack which would defeat the whole purpose of blocking, evading, or deflecting and countering. Kendo is good as it is. Since once again it is a sport. If you want to practice an art where you must go for the vitals of a human, then go for kenjutsu. The objective of Kenjutsu is to learn how to kill or harm an opponent using a sword, whereas Kendo is used more for personal development and discipline. As you can clearly see the difference between the two. I'm taking kenjutsu next but I need the discipline first before I try it.
@@MindBloopler "brawl without style." Any real fight will be messy. This isn't the movies. It's a very Japanese thing to do things with elegance, but for combat that goes out the window immediately.
Again, if that's how kendo wants to do it, go ahead. This video wasn't pure kendo, however.
I fail to see why you would ignore defence if an afterblow was a possibility. If anything, it's what will get you to cover yourself after a strike. HEMA does this all the time, and it works splendidly.
That being said, fighting without armour has been described as suicide by several masters throughout the years, because aiuchi is very common. In HEMA, which also uses a point system, aiuchi doesn't count, and for any hit to count, you need to protect yourself from the afterblow. There is zero meaning in you getting in a hit if they kill you the second after.
If you want to try kenjutsu, just go with kenjutsu. There's no need for you to do kendo first. Discipline will come with any art.
Awesome! I love it! Make another video like this in an open location, like a park etc. It would be great if every Kendo school also practiced Kenjutsu.
Neither of these kendoka has practiced kenjutsu. See the subtitle at 0:27.
I wouldn’t say “kendo is weak” kendo is just an over simplified and “sportified” version of Kenjitsu they’re just used for different events.
Kenjutsu is a battlefield martial art.. kendo is for the Olympics.. they should be considered equals in different realms of thought.. but if you boil them down to practicality, kenjutsu is the better way of defending yourself with a sword, because it doesn’t rely on “points scored” it relies on putting the opponent in a body bag so you get to go home safely and in one piece
I think their calling Kendo "weak" is more of a translation issue than anything else. In Korean, from what I can see (I don't speak Korean, so take it with a grain of salt), strong and weak are synonymous with good and bad, respectively. And the context they're trying to put it in is combative ability, near as I can tell.
Kendo isn't in the Olympics.
@@Ianmar1 it should be tho, i'd love to see it in the olympics
@@Nuru3754 The community is very split on this. I don't think that any martial arts sport has been happy with the changes made to join the Olympics.
-Judo had leg grabs and ground grappling removed to distinguish it from wrestling, and a time limit introduced for better television.
-TKD had punches removed to distinguish it from boxing.
-Karate had knock outs removed, the recent gold medalist won by being knocked out.
Kendo has many asthetic scoring criteria related to edge alignment, strength of the strike, and awareness of the opponent which would need to be codified for Olympic style rule legislation.
@@Ianmar1 ohh i actually didn't think about those things...
Thank you so much for this video. This is exactly what I was waiting for. You guys have serious skills!
Really great video I enjoyed watching this of all others I’ve seen in the most recent time, thank you very much nice sound effects.
In terms of techniques, kenjutsu surely got an upper hand cause they have combo sets and off Kendo rules match moves. But in terms of speed, Kendo can be quite menacing since their eyes and body were trained on the prize (points). However Kenjutsu still got an upper hand since the tenacity of Kendo to gain points makes them ditch their defence in order to attack. Kenjutsu prioritise deflection and parry before striking. Both are good arts, but one is martial/combat arts while the other is sparring/competitive sport arts.
If a Kendoka had to fight a real fight he wouldn't use sports rules. it would be more like this video.
One of the best sparring I’ve seen !
And by far !
your other channel looks has a lot of informative videos. It would be very good if you add subtitles
Yah! Toh! Did I miss other words?
I absolutely love this channel
Wow, that last one...
It was crazy fast! If you blink you lose.
1:40 that was some good seme! totally a 100% kendo move.
I prefer the kenjutsu techniques in the last video where there was more grappling and slicing at close range which I think is closer to battlefield sword dueling.
It is noted that most Ko-Ryu Bujutsu do engage exclusively in Kata it should be noted that there are also Ko-Ryu that do engage in Sparring.
It should also be noted that back in the day during the Muromachi Period there was lots of Pressure Testing this was known as Shobu and/or Shiai.
There where also practices called Musha Shugyo(Warriors Journey) and Taryu Jiai(Competition's that Lacked Restriction's).
Bujutsu and Budo Should complement each other Bujutsu's practical Skill and Application and Budo's Pressure Testing and Competitivenes.
I love this channel, thanks for the purchase link too
Yo these engages looks like they were choreographed for a movie. AMAZING BOUT!
Thanks for another really good session 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 I think people should experience all matters of training styles but if I had to pick out of these 2 I'm going to choose Kenjutsu
think of kendo as little more than high percentage move spam: a kendoka with excellent footwork can defeat 90% of swordsmen on Earth with the "men" cut to the head. kenjutsu teaches one to actually fight with a sword, so more ground is covered on the many ways a fight can develop (including grappling, kicking, elbowing, shouldering) vs high percentage move spam. this deeper understanding won't necessarily translate when demonstrating techniques with toy swords. it will certainly translate with live blades in combat.
I must admit, the sound effects and cartoony blood really make for a good show. Fencing matches should take note.
That under the chin strike had to be really disrespectful in actual combat, imagine that. Any of these strikes are deadly! I especially like when they parry an incoming attack after they already slashed their opponent. We can only imagine what mortal combat was like.
These fights are insane , I love this channel , I would like to see ether Chinese jian vs katana or scimitar vs anything !! Also would like to see shuriken !!!
Well done. Great vid, ty
There are a high amount of double kills. More than what I had thought. My sword skill is limited to kali and what is taught in the Bujinkan. You guys are far more sophisticated in sword. Keep up the good work!
In kendo double kills are thrown out, and the point system favors attack over defense so there are no real consequences to getting hit unless that hit is unanswered.
Kali looks very effective, although I have never understood why your sparring looks so different from your flow exercises. Could you explain it?
@@Ianmar1 Flow drills are like kata/forms and energy drills (similar to chi sao in Wing Chun). It's a tool box builder to help build coordination and timing. Sparring is different from school to school. When I was Inosanto Lacoste and Doce Pares in the USA, armor was worn. DBMA in NYC and when it was offered in the Atlantic City area (NJ) sparring was unarmored save headgear and gloves. Throwing, ground grappling, knees and elbows were permitted. It is sparring so measures of safety are taken. I currently live in Japan and I train with the Pekiti Tirsia group in Tokyo and Yokohama. Sparring is unarmored but done is degrees building up from each other and limiting things to build a specific skill set. This is based on my experiences. I hope this helps.
怖い死にたい
Most kenjutsu schools today are limited to few villages,towns in japan
Great camera angles
I placed "up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, B, A, B, A and Start"
The thing about kendo and kenjutsu is the idea into it. In kendo, you only have 4 parts of the body to score a point. So you have the head, the wrists, the stomach and the neck (only in a straight attack). When we talk about kenjutsu we are talking about how to survive and kill with a katana. So we can cut any part of the body, you can have multiples types of defenses, parries and movements. In kendo, if someone tries to hit you in the head but it ends up hitting your shoulder, the match continues. The same scenario in kenjutsu means your are dead because your shoulder is cut open.
Kendokas practice only these four attacks and they get reeeaaally fast and precise, but you can also get that in kenjutsu and still have all of the multiples ways to deal with all the other things that can happen in a real life and death situation.
I've practiced both and I love both. But I will always put my money in kenjutsu.
I am totally agree whit you.
Kendo is a sport and Kenjutsu is a martial art.
The point is, the skilled Kendoka's Men Strike is hard to defend from the standpoint of Kenjutsu users who have not learned kendo.
On the other hand, attacks by Kenjutsu users are surprisingly easy to defend from the standpoint of Kendoka. (Of course, I think Kenjutsu has an edge on attacks from very close range.)
The Kenjutsu user in the last video was also the one who trained Kendo.
Today, most of the Kenjutsu Dojo, which has been proven to be productive, is also working with Kendo.
From the beginning, kendo is not just a sport, but a form similar to MMA, which combines excellent Kenjutsu techniques that have been proven to be practical in the past.
Who would you bet on if you sparred with a person who trained only traditional martial arts like Chinese martial arts?
So I'm betting on Kendo when both of them have trained their own martial arts.
(Think of Kendoka players who are beyond human categories, such as Eiga Naoki and Miyazaki Masahiro.)
@@Vergil06 I disagree. I practiced kenjutsu over six years and have had this same time of practice on using kenjutsu against other styles of sword, spear, axe and shield fighting. If you only use kendo moves, you will lose. It is easy to defend when there is only for angles of attack you have to be aware of.
@@MinadoCoelhoI'm sorry, but I've also trained Kendo and Kenjutsu for more than 10 years.
Every time there's a debate about Kendo's practicality, everyone uses beginners as examples of videos.
Kenjutsu, who has not trained Kendo, will easily collapse if more than 5 Dan of experienced Kendoka experts come.
It seems that there are so many people living in fantasy only in martial arts using weapons.
Like people who used to fantasize that if you train Wing Chun hard, you can beat MMA fighters.
Just because there are no rules, get rid of the prejudice that you are always strong.
(I wrote it through a translator. Please understand that the context may not be smooth..)
@@MinadoCoelho Oh, To be exact, Kendo trained for 9 years and Hokushin Itto ryu for 2 years.
excelente video como siempre, hasta tienen la Frostmure, practico Kendo y quisiera comprar la espada que usan acá, pero el link de compra no hacen envíos a Colombia
Oye, una cosa, yo también soy de colombia, y quisiera practicar algo, estoy entre el Kendo y el kenjutsu pero las dos de ven muy bien, ¿Tu porque empezaste a practicar Kendo y como te a ido?
@@larrycapija2844 práctico Kendo y karate Kyokushin Kai, la mayor diferencia entre Kendo y kenjutsu sería que el Kendo es más "deportivo" ya que no es válido cortar al hombro o a las piernas, en cambio en el kenjutsu es más completo
Algo similar a Taekwondo deportivo o MMA en uno no verás derribos, llaves o sumisión
Ya depende de la escuela que encuentres en tu región,
Ahora, tampoco es tan difícil el entrenar Kendo en un dojo y luego hacer kenjutsu por tu cuenta
Puede hacer la compra en una empresa que hace compras por internet. Ellos le habilitan un P.O. Box en Miami, USA en donde recibe el producto y de ahí lo envían a su país.
@@Jkayami Osu ! Hermano de kyokushin 💪👍🙇 y gracias por la información
@@larrycapija2844 En que ciudad te encuentras? si deseas empezar kendo en colombia podria ayudar a vincularte con un dojo.
Cualquier cosa me avisas, un saludo!
0:48 that block!!!!😱 Need to start learning Kenjutsu stat.
Hey! Thanks for this great video!
But can you please help to indicate who’s the one learning Kendo and who’s the one learning Kenjutsu. Thank you!
both are kendoka.
I love both disciplines
What I hate are morons who say shit like "traditional martial arts are bullshit and don't work in a real fight"
Like bro he's got a f**king SWORD!
Also you have excellent taste in music.
2:11 On the left: The art of the sneaking camera.
Which koryu of kenjutsu is using the kenshi? Greats videos!
we only used kendo kata! not koryu
Aggh 😱 the violence, the blood, the terror 😱.
Knew I was in the right place 😀👍
Ihr sagt, die gute Sache sei es, die sogar den Krieg heilige? Ich sage euch: der gute Krieg ist es, der jede Sache heiligt.
Kendo seems like the safty Version designed for competion ! In my eyes that makes it not better or worse, just different! Altough just for estatic reason alone i would prefer Kenjutsu as Kendo seems to have more in common with fanceing than with the art it is derrived from which is kenjutsu ! I would say the sportsman choses kendo and artist Kenjutsu!
Very nice! Thank you)
Simply put... yes
剣道は剣が当たるって分かっててもも有効打突にならないのが分かっていると避けようと思わないから当たってしまうんよね
Kendo here looks like kumdo, Korean variant
Is there any chance you could bring back double hook swords? I want to see them against spear. Love your channel.
i think that in a fight between kendo and kenjutsu trainees the defense aspect is far more important than the offense
and that's because kendo doesn't really have defence the trainees are not taught blocking because pushing forward and delivering blows is the only important thing (you can see kendoka in the video using only one kind of parry that isn't purely defensive either because it has to include a blow right after)
and i think this is the most important difference between the two even more so than kendo (being a sport) focuses on points and limits the areas where you're allowed to hit
This is incorrect. Kendo is mostly defence (im new to kendo, but I get trained by few of the best kendokas in my country). There are parries and beats and other type of blocks and evasion, but the sport kendo is extremely fast pace and its hard to pick up on.
@@fryderykchopin3974 I'm sorry but no
my claim that kendo doesn't have defence might've been a little bit overboard but it's nowhere close to what you're saying
first of all being new to kendo can mean you started training anywhere from a week to a year ago but i'm going to assume that you are training in a bogu so you're a few months in at minimum
now just because kirikaeshi has blocks doesn't mean they are used in combat blocking is obviously good for exercising but when it comes to fighting it just doesn't exist
I am no kendo master yet but my club has best kendokas in my country and well good luck seeing them block an attack while they're fighting
the fact that you technically can block and you won't be disqualified for it doesn't mean you should let alone that kendo is "all about defense"
in my club we're simply not taught to block because blocking leaves you very open especially your kote and even if you manage to block one attack a competent opponent will simply attack you a second time this time hitting you on your kote or do or he will faint an attack and go for men anyways as soon as you'll try to come back to kamae
what i've been told by my sensei is that there is no defence in kendo everything you're doing is aggressive
now there is parrying but it's not anything essential like you're saying
and i really do not want to be rude but what you're saying sounds like you're training a completely different sport
@@thenine895 I mean, I really bepends on the school right. My dojo does do alot of blocking and parrying. that is the way I am being thought. The way my dojo does it seems to work seeing my teacher has won a medal in the recent eu championship.
Edit: I take no offence btw. I love learning different perspectives.
But they are both kendoka in this match.
@@Ianmar1 but one is using kenjutsu instead of kendo also my point does not only apply to this specific situation
I love you videos! What camera do you use?
Tankendo please.
What a spar!!! Amazing technique
I agree, they did a nice job cutting as opposed to hitting.
so what on this video is called ¨kenjutsu¨ are thecniques from the kata´s of kendo,right?
Kenjutsu is the art that Samurai used. Kenjutsu uses stances, parrying, killer slashes and blows. While kendo is more of a game. Kendo tries to aim for more of hitting for points while kenjutsu aims for blows that end a person. So It’s basically another art of the sword
its is not a particular art that is superior to another,, its all about the skill level of the person that practices a particular art.
Nice content! But, where can i get this bokken that you use in the vídeo?
We bought it through the link in the pinned comment :)
Which is which? They're both dressed identically, so I can't tell which art is winning.
there is no kenjutsu guy. both are kendoka
The taller dark blue use Kendo, the shorter black use Kenjutsu.
@@angryzombie8088 See Weaponism's reply above.
Excellent
From my perception, Kendo is Sport, Kenjutsu is Martial Art.
But in real fight with real sword, Kenjutsu will have more ways to win because war is dirty & Kenjutsu fights dirty.
The taller dark blue Kendoka use Kendo, the shorter black Kendoka use Kenjutsu.
Neither of these kendoka has practiced kenjutsu. See the subtitle at 0:27.
@@Ianmar1 I do noticed that, but one doesnt need to be a practitioner to emulate a movements.
Even animals can emulate humans, emulation is a step in learning.
They never claimed to be a Kenjutsu practitioner but I cant say that they have absolute zero knowledge about Kenjutsu.
Is it possible to both learn Kendo and Kenjutsu at the same time? If it is, how ?
Find a dojo that has both, or find two dojo with each. Most legitimate koryu only take on high ranked kendoka and iaidoka as students so cross training should not be a problem for either discipline. The dojo where I train kendo only accepts koryu students at 2dan iaido since the focus of the dojo leaders is koryu iaido (iaijutsu); I don't train iaido, so I don't train koryu but the community is very wholesome.
Finding a legitimate koryu dojo near you may be difficult depending on where you live, however there is plenty of kenjutsu embedded in kendo and iaido kata if you are willing to study those deeply.
Kendo bonk would still split my skull.
Real fight or not.
Which style of kenjutsu was he using? I wanna say it's Itto Ryu but I feel like I'm wrong
See the subtitle at 0:27, they are both using the kenjutsu encoded in kendo kata, neither have any other kenjutsu experience. Thus your estimation is right: heavily influenced by Itto Ryu, but not Itto Ryu.
Great video. Was there any reason why the kenjutsu trained kendoka used hasso instead of jodan?
Neither of these kendoka has practiced kenjutsu. See the subtitle at 0:27.
4:03 bro got vanquished
More Kenjutsu please
This is exactly what a new art should be! Someone please create an art related to what HEMA does only with Samurai Kenjutsu. The traditional kata based art school styles are boring compared to this. SOMEONE START A SCHOOL WHERE YOU TRAIN REALISTIC MEDIEVAL JAPAN KENJUTSU!
Our host Weaponism has responded a few times that these are both kendoka using the kenjutsu encoded in kendo kata.
See the subtitle at 0:27
You know what I mean, no need to complicate. Someone else can be inspired by this and create a free art that embraces every aspect of kenjutsu, and let's you spar with ancient weapons :) Imagine the possibilities, wakizashi and spear handling as well! Kendo is restricted, and that is just a fact.
@@eccer What you just described: sword vs spear is called ishu-jiai, it is a lot of fun!
Edit: ishu-jiai includes kendo, naginata (glaive), jukendo (bayonet), and tankendo (wakizashi), although naginataka are rare enough and the other two are very rare.
That'd be great since japanese swordsmanship has mostly been sportified through kendo. At least koryu schools and iaido clubs exist though. Imagine the UFC but with medieval weapons lmao. There's buhurt but it's not really the same.
Kendo and kenjutsu are different because they are meant to be two sides of one coin. Kenjutsu is the art of using the sword, kendo is the art of mental discipline with the sword. That is why kendo always seems too rigid, too traditional like a ritual that must follow a set path. You should know both of you want to be an amazing swordsman. One disciplines your mind, the other disciplines the body.
Kendo is a sport and Kenjutsu is an actual sword fighting style used by the Samurai. Kendo techniques will get you killed in an actual sword fight.
video idea: make mihawk sword vs kendo
Truly analysing:kendo mostly us straight and stab attacks......where kenjutsu uses more slash and blocks....kendo weekness is side slash,where for kenjutsu its stab...
I feel like both practitioners were struggling to see the opponents and their own bokken due to them being black
Thanks for the request granted
Can you make a video of Kensutsu vs kalaripayatu
1:54. Elle est très forte. Une guerrière redoutable.
impressive
I am from Eastern europe I don't know wich is wich ..looks cool but who won?
In this video both train kendo. I don't know if they were keeping score.
👍
BoKen fight is always more realistic than when using the bamboo sword.
Is this sheet Kempojutsu or plain Kenjutsu ? Confused over here in Cajunland. Waiting on my Timberland.
검도가 진검술에 비해 약하다... 뭐 이견이 있겠지만 상대방을 먼저 가격 하기만 하면 득점하는 룰은 실제상황과는 괴리가 있습니다.
적이 칼을 맞으면서도 칼을 휘둘러 나를 상하게 할 수 있기 때문에 적에게 칼을 넣으면서도 상대방 칼을 가로막거나 걷어내거나 쳐내거나 피하거나 해야합니다. 죽도와 호구를 쓰는 현대 검도는 그것을 많이 간과하죠. 고류 검도에는 그런게 철저히 고려되어 있구요.
Why do proponents of historical fencing always assume that sport fencers don't know the difference between an opening where they might be able to make a clean attack and close down the counterattack and an opening in which they can certainly make a clean attack and close down the counterattack? Why do they always assume that sport fencers would use the same tactics if lives are at stake?
This is the gap of their skills I believe.
It's wrong question. The question should be ,,is typical kenjutsu practice weak compared to typical kendo practice?". And the answer is yes. Yes, because kata alone won't teach anybody combat. Combat is learned through far more rigorous, demanding and humbling exercises than some memory-based sequences; which kendo also has - as you've stated. Thank you all, best regards :P
Love your content!
Memorizing the sequence of a kata is maybe 20 % or less of actually learning it.
@@Veepee92 for sure, but this doesn't change the fact that the only reaction type that kata teaches is simple reaction, and does not teach 6 other reaction types that combat consist of: reaction with choice, differential, switching reaction, to a moving object, intuitive and to pre-stimulus.
@@Druid_Ignacy Kata training in traditional schools covers a chunk of those too.
@@Veepee92 what exactly contains this ,,chunk"? Which reaction types kata covers apart from simple reaction? Sure, kata may cover, except simple reaction, distance menagement, operational memory, and sport-specific ,,cardio". But I've never seen any kata covering six other reaction types different than simple reaction. And these are necessary in combat. And so in sharp weapon duel between kenjutsu ,,only-kata-no-spar" guy and regular kendoka, second one would kill the first one 8 times out of 10. It's like difference between karate kata champion and a kickboxer. Let me put this straight: while performing kata, do you make decisions and choices? I've never seen nor did one which featured choices during exercise. And so, if exercise does not feature decision-making, then it does not teach reactions with choice, differential, switching or intuitive - at all! - and reactions to a moving object and pre-stimulus are also debatable there.
80% of kendo players experience tendon and ligament damage from improper movement. kendo also does not allow for variation in style or training other than one "exception". Kendo is a game made out of corpse of gekiken, which was not a martial art but a sport for martial practitioners to test their styles against eachother.
True that. Those are some of the reasons of why i stoped doing Kendo. Some schoold do cross training tho
Disagree with you. As a Japanese kenshi (4dan kendo, 3dan Tankendo). All you said about kendo is the opposite. I train at police dojo and we do takedowns. There are many cross trainings with other sword schols, and even with Jukendo. So your statement is false. Second thing, about the injuries it is is true taht they occure, but that's because over training. 1000 suburi before the training is a bit a lot, don't you think? Hayasuburi with one hand carying shinai or sometime bokuto is very hard. If you had trained kendo, you should know that. Shame on you for speaking nonsense. 嘘はだめです。
Obviously your informations about Kendo were wrong lol
Totally incorrect information, and your percentages should come with sources. This type of post is always counter-productive to real discussions, as it’s obviously rooted in non-experiential judgement.
Was this all from sparring? Or was some/all of it choreo? Some of the exchanges looked a bit stilted, but I could see that being due to the kendo background or something.
It is not matter of Kendo vs Kenjutsu. It just depends on personal experience.
Its not matter what personal experience is. It depends on what type of gun & how much bullet they have.
This is interesting
Your video posts a question to the audiences, but they can’t even tell which is which. How can they even try to answer the question?
Both guys here only do kendo. I believe the point of the video is to emphasize that all kendo students are required to learn a style of kenjutsu by way of kendo kata.
Kenjutsu= Deadly, lethal and one-stroke one dead
Kendo: No matter where you hit, just touch the opponent to earn a point
It really does matter where you hit, kendo has very limited target areas: top of the head, neck, forearms, and belly. Also, just touching is never enough, kendo has some of the strictest quality of strike criteria there is including: speed at impact (sai), edge alignment (ha-sugi), region of the shinai (monouchi), kinetic linking (kikentai no ichi), vigor (kiai), intention (kime), and awareness (zanshin).
很喜歡這裡的對決 劍道的嘗試👍
但是刀常橫放頭部 所以腹部經常埃刀
可試著用刀柄擺側腹 刀尖擺頭部來擋刀
照你講法做兩邊都會挨刀
Well atleast you won in a real fight if both sides is chopped down realistically
These guys are amateur at best as a 2 time judo competitor n a 15 year sword master these guys I assume r just in hs filming out there sensi karate dojo so don't be to mean least they put in effort to document these fights regaurdless of skill a trained swords man can appreciate a weapon duel
Is a tazer weak compared to a machine gun? They have different purposes
Also, dynamics of shinai and bokken r different
Based on the video, the kendoka has a telegraphic pattern, too straight forward 70% of the strikes he hit the opponent is when he does non-telegraphic attacks. no defense, one hit strike, no combo.
But I guess it always goes down to the wielder
They are both kendoka
hello, can you recommend any video for kenjutsu practise? maybe some waza?
This is a kendo channel, the people who run it are kendoka, their guests are from other styles. With that said, every koryu kenjutsu will strongly discourage you from attempting to study without a sensei.
Go find a dojo in your area with an atmosphere that you like, and ask on koryu forums if it looks legitimate.
@@Ianmar1 i am kendoka my self and i have been doing kendo for 15 years, and i am intresting in practicing kenjutsu. In Russia i think i hardly manage to find a koryu kenjutsu dojo
@@Сергей-ф4ч3е I take it that you have exhausted kendo kata, do you also train iaido?
@@Ianmar1 i trainded iaido several years ago, but i stopped because i wanted to feel impact of strikes and have keiko with opponent
@@Сергей-ф4ч3е You are not going to find many kenjutsu styles that will offer you that. I suppose that you will want one which either does kata with a fukuro shinai, or gekken. Those are not very common.
i wouldn't neccesarily call kendo weak compared to kenjutsu, rather it has the same relationship olympic fencing has to sports like HEMA
obviously, olympic fencig is by no means very practical, but it still sprouts from the same branch as HEMA.
kendo, like olympic fencing, has been changed over its lifetime to be more "competition" friendly and moved away from the "killing intent" its origins once had.
Don't olympic fencers regularly sweep HEMA competitions?
@@Ianmar1 no idea, wouldn't be surprised either way.
Very nice
this kendoka he doesn't use chisai waza, his seme is not strong enough...
See the subtitle at 0:27, they are both kendoka.
The weight of a sword is a critical factor. Try to use a 1200g sword and see how the fight changes, in the better.
I am not sure.
The difference in weight mostly just affects balance and forces you to improve your posture.
You can do kendo-style small strikes with a heavy blade. Perhaps stopping for a follow-up is a bit harder.
Adding a heavier sword will favor the one with stronger muscle. This is not about strength, its about technique.
In testing this particular subject, external factor should be eliminated, not added.
@@angryzombie8088 If you cannot wield a real sword, what's the point? A modern competitive shinai for men is about 600g, a katana is somewhere between 1000 and 1200g. That weight *will* affect the speed of the swing, how fast you can change a trajectory, and your recovery. If you cannot do it with a real sword, you're just playing around.
@@kodain omg are you seriously trying to compare a bamboo Shinai with a metal katana?
Btw AR-15 weight is about 2.97kg.
Anyway, I agree there will be slight difference in speed but I believe a Kendoka can handle those 1.2kg
In case you didnt realize, in the video both Kendoka is using the same sword with same weight.
With real sword, it will translate into a slightly slower speed with same result.
Boken & Shinai is used to avoid fatal injury.
@@angryzombie8088 I fail to see why an AR-15 was brought up. If you've never trained to use a real sword, it will be very, very different. Your argument was that a real sword would favour the one with more muscle and that it was about technique. Knowing how to use a real blade *is* technique. In fact, it's what makes you become aware whether your technique is shite or not.
If you don't know how to use your body, you will become tired very fast, strikes become heavier, which means harder to block, and they become harder to recover from once you do them. It also becomes much harder to do follow-up strikes or changing your trajectory.
Furthermore, a metallic sword would stick or bind, although this is very hard to recreate without an edge on the weapon.
Yes, it's for safety purposes, but a training weapon like that cannot be used if you truly wish to compare two sword arts.
I want to see kendo vs mau rakau(taiaha) please
Do and Jutsu ... Up to you
Let's GOOO!
no its about the skill of the user
50 years later: Kendo vs nuke
what's the title of the background music?
Greatttttttttttttttttttt
Basically any art that ends with jutsu is just better in my book lol