HOUSE OF THE DRAGON 2x04 REVIEW | Game of Thrones | HBO MAX | The Geek Buddies
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ค. 2024
- SPOILER REVIEW FOR HOUSE OF THE DRAGON SEASON 2 EPISODE 4!
HOUSE OF THE DRAGON Season 2 Episode 4 titled "The Red Dragon and the Gold" features as Rhaenyra makes sure there is no other way to end this conflict but war, dragons flew, and the dance begun.
There is so much to discuss here and John Rocha, Michael Vogel and Shannon McClung give you their spoiler filled thoughts on it all including easter eggs and Game of Thrones references!
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Chapters:
0:00 Intro and Overall Thoughts on House of the Dragon S2 Ep 4
6:37 Aegon's Storyline and Scenes in HOTD S2 Ep4
21:30 Alicent's Storyline and Scenes in HOTD S2 Ep4
32:14 Daemon At Harenhal and The Meaning of his Visions
42:21 Rhaenyra Sending Rhaenys, Talking to Jace About a Song of Ice and Fire
49:48 The Battle at Rook's Rest, Aegon, Rhaenys, Criston Cole and Vhagar
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#houseofthedragon #gameofthrones #review
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Agree with Vogel, not Rocha. Alicent is clearly looking through the books because she's trying to find information about the Song of Ice and Fire - remember she was looking for Viserys' books in Aegon's bedroom. She's shook by what she found out at the end of last episode and she's trying to find information to confirm because she doesn't want to be wrong.
So she's looking for reasons to defend her decision and her belief about the situation WHICH IS WHAT I SAID ON THE REVIEW, but you don't agree with me??? WTH?! Finding some random bit of history to prove that she wasn't wrong is exactly the same thing as trying to find some bit of history to defend herself in case she was wrong. BOTH actions are self serving. lol
@@JohnRochaSays I think the difference is that you implied that Alicent has basically been aware of what she was doing all along and that she should basically fall on her sword and admit she was wrong, try to end the war, and that her looking for information was an attempt to find historical precedent to justify her actions. Whereas Vogel was basically was saying she had basically just given up and I think she's just vainly looking for something because she's just desperate to believe that somehow she wasn't wrong for starting a war that she has no power to stop or do anything anymore.
@@JohnRochaSaysI think most people thought she was looking for information about the story Rhaeny was talking about to confirm that she was wrong 🤔🤔
@@calvinkaichen Oh I didn’t imply it. I flat out said it. She convinced herself that what Viserys said was about putting Aegon on the throne. People will sometimes hear what they WANT to hear. Happens all the time.
@@ClarkwBrunson You speak for most people now?? Oh ok. 😂
I love how y'all can navigate potentially heated conversations. You always try to identify what you have in common and then go from there. ❤️
I agree entirely with Vogel's take on things. Alicent truly believed that her husband meant for their son Aegon to be on the throne, but once presented with a conflict she is searching for her husband's books to gain greater clarity of the Song Of Ice And Fire. She isn't looking for public support of her claim because no one is openingly doubting her in their inner circle. Also Aegon didn't go running to his mother. He ran to his own chamber and was surprised to find his mother there. Rewatch the scene.
Look, crying to his Mommy in his room or her room is irrelevant. He was still crying to his Mommy. That's the truth of the scene. Where it occurs is minor details, but hold on to that if you need to. And you might be right about Alicent or I might be right about her. The show hasn't told us yet.
I’ve been waiting all day for this review. I need a hug from my buddies; THE. GEEK. BUDDIES!
Same
I agree with Vogel's read on Alicent's position.
"Why is he being forced to sit on that throne? Because Alicent misheard...."
No, John. The wheels were already being put in motion by Otto & the Small Council to usurp the throne, irrespective of her support. The misunderstanding of Viserys' final words only served to bring her into the fray. Without Alicent, you think the plan to crown Aegon wouldn't have happened? I wish a female/Queen Dowager had such sway over the power-wielding men of that world.
Every week i interpret the episode exactly like Vogel and exactly not like Rocha. I think she's looking for books to look up the Song of Ice and Fire. And her bluntness is because she's just so exasperated with everything. She knows she messed up now, but she knows there's no stopping this war AND that her son is incompetent and she's just exhausted by it all. And I think she very clearly was hoping Aegon would rise to the occasion. Before Aegon's coronation, she tries to encourage him when he says Viserys never believed in him, ensuring him it is what Viserys wanted, and she lovingly calls him an "imbecile" when he asks if she loves him. Then in this episode she even says she hoped he would listen and learn from the people more experienced than him. At this point she wants him to stay out of it, but she initially wanted him to learn how to be king. (Also he didn't go running to her. She was in his chambers already looking for Viserys's books)
@@Sff303 Exactly! And from a story standpoint there is a huge difference with him returning to his own chamber vs if he went to his mother’s chambers.
@@Sff303 I think saying she “lovingly” called him an imbecile is a reach… sadly part of the reason this conflict is happening is due to the lack of love the Greens show to each other and their extended family. Alicent is complicit in that because it was she that turned her children against Rhaenyra and her family. Viserys also allowed this and didn’t act when he was healthy enough to make a difference. When Aegon was devastated and crying over the murder of his son and she saw him instead of going to him and hugging him she turned around and walked away. She’s exasperated with Aegon beside it eats at her what he is… he never cared to study and learn, he doesn’t really care about so the boring things of ruling… and she’s beyond frustrated and also feels powerless now.
No one was getting saved, Alicent can’t stop this war. She never could stop it, her “misunderstanding” of Viserys words doesn’t matter because the council was going to userp the throne with or without her help. The story she told about Viserys gave them a good story cover to do what they were going to do anyway. Viserys inaction is what led to this, he buried his head in the sand and just hoped his family would get along without doing anything to make it happen. When he finally tried to bring them together it was too late.
I know this is ancient history but I can’t help holding Rhaenyra accountable for fleeing King’s Landing and assuming the transfer of power would go smoothly in her absence. She’s seemed so taken aback by it, you’d think she & Daemon would’ve had a sturdy plan in place for when this power grab inevitably happened. Preferably staying in KL, taking part in the council, raising her children in the castle, keeping loyal allies in places of power. She really set herself up for what’s come.
Great episode. 🎉🎉🎉
RIP my favourite character 😢
The Queen that never was. 🎉
Glad to see this gang back together again. Love all of your breakdowns from acolyte to the boys and of course, HOTD
“It’s not a lie, if you believe it. -George Costanza”-Alicent Hightower.
Deep cut. 😂
I am in mourning and Rhaenys will forever be that chick. Saw the death coming though as from the first ep as they really made sure to show how important she is to Rhaenyra. I think she wanted out before having to experience anymore loss especially the possibility of her granddaughters deaths.
Agree with Vogel that Allicent has given up cause she’s been largely pushed out and even if she’s wrong she can’t do anything to stop this war. Aegon is slightly tragic he was never meant to rule and largely seemed to feel he had no purpose until he became king only to find out he’s still not wanted beyond being a face of the administration.
Gotta say McClung is off on Joffrey the most prep he had to be king was Cersei telling him that when he’s king he can do whatever he wants and say whatever and it will be taken as truth. Robert wasn’t even around him much per his own words after the boar incident.
Allicent was not the only one that put Aegon into power. Otto and the council had the plan ready already, with or without her
He didn't run to his mom, lol.. he ran to his room, and his mom was there looking for his father's books lol
John"s Alicent takes are a crack up 😂 Worth the click every week!
It's unrealistic, John, what you propose for Alycent. She cannot give herself to death like this. There are two things, I think, that she could do: 1. (which is also unrealistic) she would have to actually defect, leave King's Landing in secret, show up in Dragonstone and say: "Rhaenyra, I f-ed up! I will support your claim now, against my kids." She can not do that. Or 2. she could try some sort of exile, leave Westeros, and do correspondence trying to dissuade King Aegon her son to renounce and also maybe try to negociate with Rhaenyra some sort of amnesty for the kid-King. This would, I think, be the diplomatic step, and the option of "ok, let me try to do a right thing (and clear my conscience)..."
However, Alycent is not strong in the flesh, as we have been seeing, to even think about this. And, well, who among all of us is like that??...
Another thing, that none of you guys caught: I think that her looking for the history books may also have something to do with she be trying to find out about Aegon the Conqueror and what the hell is what Rhaenyra said, the Song of Ice and Fire, which, of course, we know (she doesn't), she will never find in books.
Aemond was definitely ready to stab Aegon before Cole showed up. He attacked him on purpose and embarrassed him by speaking High Valarian.
That might have been his original intent, but he was sheathing his sword was Cole came across him, and he wasn't near Aemon's body, but he really didnt GAF about Aemon's welfare either.
I kinda thought he was getting ready to perform a coup de grace on the dragon.
@@C-Bee They made it look that way with the camera angle, and that might have been his original intention, but he was sheathing his sword even before he got to them and picked up the blade.
Mike is Right about alicent …not casual dismissal of people, ship left the harbor, if she ran up to the council and screamed i made a mistake yadda yadda , …she’s locked up immediately…she got no power, aegon is king crowned and anointed before the seven 😱
God forbid she do something to at least TRY to stop it, right? We should all just give up if we feel we can't stop a useless war that will kill thousands.
@@JohnRochaSaysi think it was too late. the hightowers been planning to usurp the throne for a long time
@@JohnRochaSays i think she could’ve sure….but she’s a MOTHER and grandmother…I don’t see many people (not all and not all bad) doing this but for her i don’t see many moms forfeiting their lives or freedom (objectively in this scenario) while her offspring still “need” her….she’s no Ned Stark….very few Neds out here
@@JohnRochaSays honestly Rocha (no beef i promise)
It would absolutely be nice if she tried, might feel good for us…i don’t see a way she wouldn’t be imprisoned or outright killed or drugged permanently…also she legitimately has another young child , and moms gonna mom…eh…peace to yall 🤘🏽👍🏽🙏🏽🤷🏽♂️
The fight choreography and storytelling was very well done during the dragon fight too. As Shannon said, , Aegon showed his inexperience when ordering Sunfire to immediately shoot fire at rhaenys and her dragon meleys, with the ensuing fire and smoke giving the more experianced rhaenys cover to perform a sneak melee attack from underneath. She also knew to targer the more vulnrable wings with fire too.
You could also tell meleys had the instict to flee rather than face Vhagar but rhaenys ordered the dragon to turn around + attack, knowing it she was likely going to her death either way.
"You can earn back your honor by raising his banner and fighting in his name against The Whore of DragonStone"....Man Cole never misses an opportunity to show off his hate boner for Rhaenyra does he.....
Well done to Frankel and the crew in bringing another great antagonist of the GOT world to life.
you know the show is doing a good job when the build up to battle music has you feeling the urge to strap on some armor too.
I appreciate Rocha's take on things because it's absolutely different than how I interpret it. The scene in episode 3 was absolute confirmation (for me) that Alicent has believed the entire time in the "rightness" of her cause, and now that has been thrown into doubt and it's crashing her world down.
I also think she's forgetting (although maybe her conversations with the maester and Larys will help her remember)...the council was going to put Aegon on the thrown regardless of her or Viserys' intentions. It certainly got easier for them when she was on board with the plan, but she is the ONLY person that cared about whether Viserys changed his mind.
The lords do not, for good reasons, trust Daemon. By offering them to meet with him at Harrenhal he is offering a safe meeting, especially with the Riverlands at war. Guest right is one of the few rules in Westeros that is never broken. (until the red wedding at least). But yea it does benefit him that he is protected from an army in Harrenhal.
I’m just devastated. I knew what would happen, love how the show tweaked it by having Aegon not supposed to be involved. I loved all that led to this because it made it THAT much more impactful and sad. I felt terrible for Aegon and Sunfyre even though I don’t want Aegon to be successful. That little moment between Aegon and Sunfyre, then Rhaenys and Maelys… such bonds… Sunfyre is a teenager that unfortunately has an inexperienced dragon rider that led to both their demise… I know they’re alive but they’re forever changed now physically. Then Rhaenys and Maelys? Noooooooooooooooooooo …
As much as I dislike Alicent, the truth is it really doesn’t matter what Viserys said at this point. Even in season 1, there was a plan to usurp Rhaenyra either way. Even if she didn’t announce about the Aegon whisper thing, the Team Green would still have made moves. And for her to be noble to correct the mistake she made, it wouldn’t change a thing. She might as well still play the game.
Other pieces of Chocolate in the box is hilarious!!! Love you John!!😂😂😂😂😂
WELCOME BACK MICHAEL!🎉
Great convo, thank you!
When the first signal to Aemond and he looked up, saw that it was Rhaenys (sp?). And he told his dragon to wait. Yes their plan may have Been to get rid of one of the Black's but Aemond's plan was to destroy his bother.
"There's other pieces of chocolate in the box" lmaaaooooooo
I thought she was hitting on Alyn too though Rocha, I was like this lady definitely has a type.
“Nip-suckles” - J. Rocha
To be fair, they Otto was plotting to put Aegon on the throne to begin with, they already had a plan in motion Alicent's story was just the excuse they used to usurp, so the outcome wouldve been the same regardless of Alicent's mistake.
Bang on, no way Otto was allowing anyone other than his grandkids to take the throne.
@@theblackdouglas4772 it's like talking to the wall on this issue. every reactor acts like Otto was not there planning the usurpation since Viserys's first wife died. and they love Rhaenys so much, but forget her words twice: ''the men will burn the realm to the ground before letting a woman rule'' to Rhaenyra, and then to Alicent ''you still toil to service men.'' - the basis of Alicent’s power relies on her ability to appeal to or control the men around her. If the men in her life choose to look away, like her father or sons, she is effectively rendered powerless.
Alicent was as blind to Aegon's lack of ability as Viserys was blind to his bastard grandchildren
Great review, guys.☺
Fabulous work gentlemen
Wouldn't be surprised if fan films involving Vhagar fighting Godzilla, Kong, or various superheroes start to develop after that episode last night 😅
Other pieces of chocolate in the box!!!! Looooool! ❤
It almost feels like Daemon is considering forming a third faction / raise any army of his own try to take power from both the blacks and the greens. It would explain why is asking everyone at Harrenhal to call him my grace (putting seeds in place ) , and not sending ravens, I might be off on this, but I wouldnt put past his character to consider letting the other 2 forces wipe each other out and then into buisness for himself
Dragon fights was everything. The dragons showing joy, grief & resolute. But to know Dragon blood is 🔥 hot!
Meleys has never been in battle, and neither has Rhaenys, so I’m not sure where that show dialogue came from.
The second episode is still the peak for me so far of season 2. I seen some people online saying this is up there with battle of the bastards and i wish i felt that way. I feel like the season 2 would be stronger with Miguel S back as showrunner.
Miss the more than an hour days..🙏🏽🤘🏽👏🏽
The only thing I find myself wanting more is from the Daemon storyline. Hopefully it pays off in the 2nd half.
19:30 wasn't Aegon kicking & screaming last season because he didn't want to be King
Damn alicent HAVE SINNED and she was right aegon should have done nothing like the norm...
Longer geek buddies please!
Are we even watching the same shows? First, Michael welcome back!!!
I'll start with where I am in your review. John my brother from another, what girl named Alicent or Alice or Alicia hurt you back in the day? Alicent isn't looking through Viserys books to further her claim. Shes looking for the proof of ASOFI to get further confirmation to what Rhaenyra just told her. Thats the entire point of her actions and DOUBT throughout this episode (that and the Plan B tea she just drank). Its why she asks the Maester about Viserys "changing" his mind in the 11th hour. It's the subtext of the conversation between she and club foot (who's doing his best sherlock impression by examining all of the books and the empty teacup). At the end of the conversation, she says, "in the end it won't matter b/c the significance of Viserys's intentions died with him" and Club Foot's response while holding and closing a book Alicents been studying is, "yes it did". She also tells her son that she basically ran sh1t during the final days of Viserys rule, so I don't know where you're coming up with, she's finally being assertive by going through the books. I would also add that her lack of patience and frankness with her son is only heightened by the fact that she's in extreme discomfort from drinking the tea. So, while she's never been shy about expressing her deep disappointment in her son (for firing her father, removing his books that may contain information about the prince that was promised aka ASOFI, and also being a general F up) she's also about to miscarry. And what was that thing about she didn't tell Cole about the baby? What is this, Godfather 2? Should she have told him? The night she and Ser Munchalot probably conceived that child, her grandson was killed. That same Knight that was sworn to celibacy and to protect her family. What would telling him do but only complicate things. What she needed to do was hide that empty teacup better and keep that to herself.
Now, let me get to Diet Joffrey. In Aegon's defense, his rule might've played out differently had his son not been beheaded. Otto Hightower (Dick Chaney) might still be The Hand and be there to advise the king, continuing what he started the night Viserys died. Did you forget that Otto already had things prepared and set in motion before Alicent even told him of Viserys's dying words. And this notion that she intentionally misread what Viserys said is bonkers. There is no indication that's happened. "You want it to be one way, but it's the other way", Marlo Stansfield, The Wire.
Now Shannon you're going to make me defend the indefensible. Joffrey Baratheon was an evil sociopath (AGRE 100%) but much like Aegon, they lacked the proper guidance from their fathers but for differing reasons. Robert might've been Ned Starks best bro, but he was a terrible king and an even worse father who neglected Jaime's... I mean his kids. It's the reason why Robert asked Ned to guide his son upon his passing. "Help him Ned, make him better than me".
Aegon however was loved but was never taught to be king b/c his father had already chosen his 1/2 sister Rhaenyra to rule. It's the reason Viserys never told any of Alicent's children or his brother for that matter about ASOFI. Also, Aegon was the runt? No Aemond was the one that they teased and got picked on. He was a loner. But it's the motivation he used to focus on his family's history, language, literature, battle strategy and his overall vision (😉) and hunger to rule.
Again, you want it to be one way, but it's the other way......
Aegon wouldn't be extra crispy if he didn't bother Aemond while he was cuddling with his girl
I have a love hate for this episode. I love the episode and hate the outcome 😭 💔
Rhaenyss got other chocolate in the box? Lol😅
That was her daughters dragon that killed her in the end😢
Yes it's ironically tragic. Meleys at least got some claws into Vhagar. More the better for Caraxes. 😉
Love watching you guys evry week. But can you guys not spoil things coming up. I like going in evry week not knowing what’s gonna happen. I was looking forward to see what happened with Aegon and yiu guys straight up spoiled it. Kinda not cool. But love you guys
You guys have to review Supacell. Incredible!!