There is nothing positive happening in the UK, it’s all doom and gloom. I had to laugh the other day when I passed a Kia dealership and they were advertising one of their cars at over £800 a month, what planet are they on?
I've never seen such insanity as these major motor manufacturers axing their most popular products and replacing them with something significantly worse and with higher prices. Historians will be studying this for centuries after everyone comes to their senses.
"Significantly worse"? Please provide at least one example of where a current ev (itself) is actually "significantly worse" than an equivalent ICE vehicle.
Do you think the makers are doing this by choice? They're in the business of making cars, and also the financing end of that as well. That means if left to their own devices they would make cars people want to buy in large numbers.
@@jbm0866 yes, manufacturers could have lobbied harder against the regulations and they could even withdraw completely where markets aren't viable. Instead they dived in with both feet trying to push cars nobody wants and that's entirely their decision.
Its funny Communist europe has mandates and capitalist China has free market competition with great cheap EVs and PHEVs. European brands are almost dead in China. Peugeot Citroen Renault Fiat skoda Suzuki Mitsubishi are DEAD. Ford volkswagen Cadillac Lincoln Chevrolet are next. Btw fiesta was not sold in China, even poor people are not buying such a small poor cars, mondeo is actually lowest you can get in China, of course with 2.0 turbo petrol and automatic transmission as standard, for around 16k USD.
U wouldn't blame them it is our politicians with this push for electric cars. Ford is loosing money from everywhere trying to go electric so they need to cut as much as possible.
Nobody in the UK will even consider ordering a new car whether ICE or EV until we know the outcome of the budget in late October. Whether its pay for mile, fuel duty rises or other extra taxation to achieve net zero. Not a good time to work in Motor trade or supporting industries as confidence must be rock bottom. Totally depressing times we now live in?
I hope the government don't introduce vehicle excise duty in the budget as planned for next spring , removing incentives too early was bad enough , 'car tax' for electric vehicles will decimate struggling sales , instead they should limit the rip-off prices at most public charges which is discouraging potential sales.
Reading between the lines. PPM road pricing is being considered due to a "potential" loss of fuel duty tax revenues. .. At the moment there are still plenty of ice cars bringing in healthy tax receipts.. .. If at some point, EV sales overtake ICE car sales, and the ice cars become a minority on the road, then ppm would be introduced.. .. So we're looking at possibly 10 years, (Inc building the ppm infrastructure, if it's not already built.) .. There's no justification for ppm charging as of now. .. If it is introduced now then ppm charging is being introduced for other reasons then lowering tax receipts.
I am an avid VW buyer, my first hands on was an R32. Various Golfs and a Passat later, I drive a Golf R estate currently. The issue I have with the ID range is they are just pig ugly. The range does not inspire any enthusiasm.
@@AlexBarrettOWI - if I went for an EV, I’d buy an ID3. I test drive one. Felt high quality. But heavy in corners, and effortlessly fast. That got boring. It made fast acceleration mundane. For the price of the ID3, I bought a 2nd hand Supra. That is engaging to drive, turns heads. ID3 is just an electric golf cart. The Supra a machine of purpose - fun!
Range, you will never drive 285 miles without having stopped for several breaks, and during these breaks, you can charge the car. I know very well that it requires that charging stations are set up, but they are almost in place.
Just realised I’m on the road to Cuba. Got my 6 year old car(which used to change every 4 years) booked in for a big refresh to last another 6 year rather than buy new. Don’t you just love where ideology takes you.
You think they don't have a plan to stop us doing that? They'll do it through MOT criteria impossible to meet. Cuba is less autocratic then the UK now.
I own 2 cars, a 20 year old mazda MX5 and a 16 year old Mercedes E Class diesel, both cars are working wonderfully well, with the range they were bought with. I was also an early EV adoptee, I liked it so much that i gave it to the wife. It is now 8 1/2 years old, done a bit over 40 k miles and the battery capacity and range has degraded by 42%. We will never buy another EV ever again, even with the government trying to twist our arms up our backs to do so.
The ZEV penalties on manufacturers in this country is simply going to keep pushing prices up, currently every ICE powered vehicle a manufacturer sells over the current 22% electric threshold this year costs them £15k, it goes up to £18k next year with a threshold of 28% of sales required to be electric. The only way manufacturers selling cars in the UK are going to meet these kind of targets is reducing and rationing ICE sales, new EV sales are dropping outside of fleet sales as they are simply too expensive for many people and plenty of people will never be able to access a home charging point. Where do you plug in if you live in a terrace house with no off street parking or a block of flats? Europe has started to put the brakes on this madness of EV evangelism we need low or zero emissions regulations not EV only or we are heading for a disaster. Let's not forget this EV push includes sales of vans which many small and medium companies rely on to run their business. A large Iveco sized panel van EV is £100k, how many companies can afford that kind of outlay once new ICE vans are almost impossible to find for sale at a dealer because they have sold their yearly allocation and all that's left is EV's for the year? You could take a look at the problems the Emergency services are having switching to EV's and around having access to suitable charging. I believe the lead times for EV fire engines are around 4-5 years from order date to delivery. Ambulances are based on van chassis which are part of the ZEV quote rules and how many electric medical systems do you think are onboard drawing power when the vehicle is stationary? The same with powering pumps and systems on fire engines. I am not anti EV but this current ZEV push is not based on the reality of living in the real world today
Infrastructure is currently an issue exactly as you describe for EV in those situations. Until either local councils start allowing sensible solutions that people have come up with to be executed without barriers otherwise the Gov will have to step in to remove obstacles to alleviate this. I know of landlords that object to allowing suitable 13amp chargers being used to charge cars. Businesses get discounts and tax perks on vehicles as they are classed as work tools, and in real terms run these till they become uneconomically viable, some proper financial planning would make the transition more painless that you describe, and your scenario is currently 11 years away, even in year 10 an ICE can be ordered ( unless current govt switch back to 2030) Your logic for emergency vehicle charging is flawed, look closely at ambulance , fire stations and police stations, these all have space for charge points inside the garages, thier issue is going to be with ensuring the local substation can cope with the load to charge , it may need additional infrastructure to cope ( the national grid is not the issue here). The turnaround of building these vehicles (Fire and ambulance) should not change, as these are coachwork built on chassis supplied, ( just like busses) both fire and ambulance have refresh plans for their vehicles. With respect to your point about power, before this becomes an issue current vehicles will be running long after 2035, with the rapid developments in battery technology even in the last 3 years, there is another 11 years at least for on board batteries to cover the specifications required for the emergency service. A lot of reaction are based on now and short sightedness to get reactions to these topics, a little thought and even minimal research will see it is not the massive problem that is being portrayed. ICE will be around for well over 50 more years, (I hope) its final demise whenever that is, will be down to the oil companies draining the wallets of the drivers ( unfortunately this is a historical fact). Thank you for an interesting conversation , 👍
@@stephencollins5706 Emergency services are being told to switch now by government with virtually no funding, they are currently getting around 1% of the required budget to switch to EV's if I recall correctly when talking to the emergency services lead on this. The charging issues are here now, many ambulances are based out of Fire Stations to cut response times but they have nowhere near the capacity to cope with fast charging large EV's. Conversation with the emergency services lead on this would say the national grid is a massive issue if pure EV is the goal, the grid generation needs to increase by 30% to cope with a like for like switch from ICE to EV and that fails to take into account government policy to replace gas for domestic heating with heat pumps which once again require electric power and more generation. Gas boilers are due to be completely phased out by 2035 and new build housing will no longer be allowed to fit gas boilers from 2025, three months from now. Oil boilers will be banned from sale for new and existing properties from January 2026. Boiler manufacturers have already told government that plans to introduce a green levy of £120 per boiler from earlier this year will simply be added to the price of buying a new boiler which resulted in the planned levy being moved back 12 months to April 2025. All of this is adding to pressure on the national grid which is facing a shortfall at peak demand by 2028 of 7.5gw, more than 3 times the maximum output of the delayed Hinckley point C plant.
@@stephencollins5706 Doing some quick totting up, putting in the infrastructure to support mass EV adoption in the UK is simply not workable. It would require well in excess of 10x as many equivalents of the current UK petrol stations. Government must know this, so clearly there is some other plan, perhaps to drastically reduce private car ownership. I can see why they might want to do that but if we don't make huge improvements to public transport to compensate PDQ, the country will be crippled.
The simple fact is that most politicians of any party have no experience of running an industry. They come up with their ideas without any knowledge of the effect their decisions will have on the market and the main manufacturers within that industry. They simply allow them selves to be led by the various pressure groups. Politicians are too used to dipping their hands into the taxpayers pockets , (which they think is an endless pot of money) and have no idea about profit and loss or having to balance the books. I think you’re quite right when you say there has to be a middle way where those that want EVs can have them, (and they have their place within the transport market) for city centre transport etc, while the market for ICE vehicles is still maintained whilst there is a need/desire for them.
Where do you get the idea politicians are 'running an industry'. They are making legislation to force manufacturers to make cleaner cars so that the common air we breathe is cleaner and we become less reliant on a source of fuel that we have no control over the price of. EV's don't just 'have a place in the market', they are an inevitable trend of internal combustion to electric motive power that is going on in the world. Sure, some people still like to use camera film, play vinyl records and keep an old Nokia phone....but none of those things pollute the air as you use them and THAT is why governments are legislating against fuel burning vehicles.
You're confusing policy setting (the job of politics) with policy implementation. Rather than wasting time, money and effort on shaping, blunting and delaying the policy setting they should have focused on profitably implementing the set policies. An industry restructuring is inevitable.
This is what pisses me off about the Tesla haters: If had stood on my driveway, with my friends, and said; My new car has 500HP, O-60 in 3.6s but does 110mpg and is silent. It doesn’t need services and has more interior space than the X5 it replaced …. They would all be agast. Impressed beyond belief… But when I say it’s a Tesla, they all sneer and get very grumpy! Petulant child-like. “Elon should shut his bloody mouth” “That thing will catch fire” “Doesn’t he support Trump?” “Car parks can’t stand the weight” “It depreciates fast” “Takes hours to charge” “You’ll need new batteries in two years and they cost £30K” “You can’t cross Europe in it” Utter imbeciles…
@@andrewwaller5913how do you know? I have a Polestar and its probably the best built vehicle Ive had. Much better built than the Mercedes C220d, VW Passat and the BMW320d that I had previously. All from new. So tell me, how do you know?
They just had leases for $299 mo for 30 months (for the 2 model) with 4k down or very similar. Crazy cheap for a 60k car. Obviously not selling. I weighed it in my mind but closest dealer is 3 hours away so I passed. Not going the orphan route with no local warranty service.
Great topic Pete, and I can see why it’s a controversial one. As I’ve said before I live here in the States and from what I’m seeing in my little corner of Tennessee is the dealerships are stacked with pickups and SUV’s and they are just not moving off the lot as they once did. I talked to my neighbor who works for a local Chrysler Dodge Jeep Ram dealership and he is now selling in a week what he use to sell in two days. There are almost no economical vehicles here anymore aside from the Hyundai Venue and Mitsubishi Mirage if you can find one. The new Nissan Kicks SR here will cost you $30k. I drove by my local Ford dealership and they had one Maverick that was already sold and a lot full of F150’s, Expedition, and Explorers. You brought up the Fiesta and I owned a 2014 Fiesta SE and it was a great car and I miss that car terribly. I truly feel that Ford along with Chevrolet has kind of shot themselves in the foot doing away with their small cars in favor of large trucks and SUV’s. The other vehicle that I have noticed that is selling quickly here is pre owned Tesla’s. You can pick up a Model 3 with 30,000 miles on it for around 20,000-25,000 dollars directly from Tesla. While with the exception of Mercedes Benz a pre owned vehicle at a dealership especially a certified pre owned one is almost as expensive as a new car, and after you figure in the higher interest rates if you’re financing the payment comes out the same as if you purchased the new car. I know I’ve rambled on here, but I have a lot on this topic that I want to discuss. I don’t really care about what type of propulsion the vehicle that I own has. All I care about is having a safe (#1 priority) economical car to get me from point A to point B and back. I have absolutely no use for a $100,000 pickup or a $70,000 SUV. I know that there are some that do but I’m not one of them. To me it’s foolish to overspend on a car and miss out on taking quality time with my family on vacation and eating healthy.
The reason why large trucks and SUV's aren't selling like they used to is two-fold. First is the fact EPA overstepping their bounds has created a situation where makers can no longer produce tried and true V8 engines, and most buyers don't want a full size truck/SUV with a V6 or even 4cyl turbo in some cases. The next reason is economics related...nobody can afford the $45k+ for such a thing equipped like they want, and there's also the fear a Kamala Harris presidency will mean gas prices once again rising to pre-election year levels and beyond.
I think the bottom dollar is that all new car prices are getting out of reach to most people. Coupled with poor EV infrastructure and expensive charger installation at home. I’m in a decent paid job but with the ever increasing inflation rates, Cars above £20k are out of reach. Bring back car prices from 10-15 years ago and that will get sales going!
Allowing for inflation, cars today are cheaper and more reliable than they were in the 1990s. For instance, in 1990 a Ford Scorpio cost around £25000. Allowing for inflation that would be £60 000 today - which will buy you any number of similar sized (but better specced and higher performance) EVs. What we don't have is the frankly rubbish entry level cars we had to put up with until around 2000. It isn't cars getting more expensive, it's increased rents and mortgages wiping out people's purchasing power.
@@EbenBransomeI've had company cars for years ..in 2004 -2009 we had to pick cars like the avensis they all had to be under 20k since COVID and Brexit they have gone through the roof
I attempted to buy a new petrol Audi, my local dealer informed me there was no chance. One of my pals informed me it is all part of the Zero EV numbers game which the SMT have fudged to reach there targets. The SMT have been quiet vocal that people cant get enough EV's, as they reached their UK target this year for EV sales. Only achieved by deflecting vehicle sales. I have been convinced for some time that we are going to lose a big player from the auto industry. A couple of Ford dealerships in my area no longer sell new cars. And service and repairs is a very hit and miss affair by these former main agents .
When half the population have no option of charging at home, the government has no business banning sales of non electric cars. Second hand petrol cars will become very expensive soon after this ban becomes complete.
@@peterthompson9318 That's just being facetious, and i'm sure you know it. There is a genuine challenge for people who want an EV and can't charge at home. It is surmountable, with the installation of affordable charging at supermarkets, workplace and shopping centre car parks etc., but there is no proper action to make that happen at the necessary scale. Doesn't even have to be fast chargers - 50kW at supermarkets and 10-20kW in other places would be enough.
Just sold my Nissan Qashqai diesel for 27% of the price I paid for it 10 years ago. Was reliable and cheap to run over 40,000 miles. Just bought a Renault Megane Etech, 7 months old, 4000 miles, 46% below RRP with the options added 😮
You make a good point about the lack of an affordable electric ford fiesta. These legacy auto companies should be asking the question about how to sell affordable electric cars at a profit. Battery costs are dropping. Tony Seba predicts $10000 USD EVs by 2030. So any new EV bought now will probably depreciate lots. The legacy auto makers could start looking at how Tesla and BWD are selling EVs at a profit.
I am an EV owner (Polestar) with a home charger and free charging at work. I only do more than 200 miles in a day, around three times a year, so they work great for me. However, the solution doesn't work for 50% of the population who can't charge at home. If the government worked on a solution (e.g. rolled out a charging network and charged 25p kw - the take up would be massive and profitable). The current network is so expensive and unreliable (outside of Tesla). As others have said - ford stopping the fiesta and focus and selling cars people want. £25k is now their entry level car and £43k for an EV. Some people want a city car, not an SUV.
@@timaustin2000 - OK, looking around, I did lowball it (different numbers show 65%-75%). But even if we take your number, a solution that doesn't work for 30% of people isn't really a solution. I believe that selling something to the public has to be easier / cheaper that the existing option. EVs are currently neither of these (if you factor in TCO for people who cannot charge at home). I think we have three outcomes 20 years from now that in someways overlap: 1)90% of EVs on the road will be 800V, and petrol forecourts will have to be like the grid-serve hubs but cheaper than Tesla-priced-people won't mind waiting 15 minutes if it is £25 for a fill-up rather than £70. 2)Pushback on EV adoption continues from consumers to legacy auto. One or two get sold/go bankrupt, and the EU is forced to reevaluate its 2035 targets.2035 is changed to Hybrid and 2050 is the new EV target 3)And linked to the above two, China slowly replaces the European car market as legacy fails
@@cp4512 - yes. I purchased it 18 months old for £37k (£58k new). A year on I figure it's worth £20k-£25k. I am now very aware of the what it's like to experience the sunken cost fallacy. Trouble is, when I look around I can't see something I would prefer in that budget. Only real blessing is that compared to my previous car (M140i) and the others I looked at (Stinger / M340i / C43) that I save around £3k per year in fuel due to the free electric at work at relatively high mileage done.
China was a huge market for luxury brands like BMW, Audi, Mercedes and VW. Unfortunately they are now buying their cars manufactured in their own country. Cheaper to buy, they make better EV's than the legacy car makers with technology 5 to 10 years ahead. China saw this coming ahead of anyone else and planed for it early. They even make 90% of all ev batteries. Once they start building factories in Europe to bypass the tariffs imposed things will get even worse.
Lets not forget the Chinese Government prop up their motor trade, to the point somewhere like 25 - 40% of there wages come from the Chinese Government, hence why their electric cars are so cheap.
@@whatthe6532 BYD may be a winner if EVs manage to stay alive, but it's value will probably drop a fair amount once it is generally accepted that EV mandates are going to get killed, EV subsidies will go away, charging infrastructure will remain sub-par, EV insurance will always be far more costly than for ICE vehicles, and EVs only serve a niche market.
No car manufacturer will succeed when people are forced down the EV route, build cars that appeal to customers. I.e range, price , practicality and longevity. The success would follow.
This is a really brief summary of how the car market was structured in the former USSR: "Cars were scarce and considered a luxury, with long waiting lists for those hoping to own one. Production was centralised, focusing on utilitarian models designed for basic functionality rather than comfort or style. The elite had privileged access to more luxurious and advanced cars, often reserved for high-ranking officials, setting them apart from the average citizen. Only a few state-controlled manufacturers existed, producing vehicles that met the needs of the population. Owning a car was a status symbol." Perhaps the future will reflect the past?
@@Wolfman57 more and more are! Some are those are people that said they would never buy an EV! Once they try one most never wanna go back to Dino juice!
People do want to buy them (especially now lots of models have a range of over 350 miles), just not at the current prices, althought the prices for 2nd hand 3 year old ones has become better.
There are many issues here but fundamentally Ford, VW, Volvo and many of the Stellantis Group manufacturers are making the wrong class of EV cars. They’ve mainly gone for the high end vehicles without any real focus on what actually sells, small - medium sized good quality affordable cars. What were Volvo thinking offering a family saloon with a 0-60 time of 4.5secs, a saloon without instruments or back seat space ! That is symbolic of what they’ve all done wrong, and now they’ve to rely on protectionism to save their lack of vision.
It's called greed. I don't know why people moan about Chinese cars being to cheap, then go and complain about cars getting very expensive. Buy Chinese cars, and the other manufacturers will get in line
@@jomo2483The problem is the legacy auto just don’t know how to do it. Maybe the merger of VW and Rivian might save the day but such different organisational cultures will be hard to integrate.
@@harry130747 Correct, 'twas ever thus. Manufacturers started out with higher end larger vehicles because they can charge more for them. It is completely understandable. They were afraid to commit to the scale of production that would make a small car economic to produce ... because you have to make several times the number of small cars than large cars to make the same profit. It's high risk for them, especially with various governments blowing hot and cold and changing dates at the drop of a hat. They need to be given the confidence that their product will sell when they've built them.
Hi Pete, Good video. Sadly the current situation was entirely predictable and has arisen because for the first time Governments around the world have tried to force a massive change rather than encourage a change. There is nothing really wrong with EV as vehicles, in fact I believe many young people would prefer them as they fit into their lifestyle better, but they are currently just are not a viable option for most ordinary people at this stage. They are too expensive for that demographic, in the UK 40% I believe will never be able to charge at home, public charging infrastructure is abysmal and too expensive, without public charging the range is inadequate for anything except short commutes. Imaging how well this could have gone if Governments had managed it differently. Provided subsidised infrastructure development BEFORE limiting ICE car sales, provided subsidies to purchase EVs to encourage the purchase of EVs as the infrastructure was rolled out, i.e a well thought out and managed plan to move us to EVs over time. Because they believed the Governments around the world were serious they thought they could move to EV production and the public would buy them even though they were way overpriced for the average person. All of the car companies did this EXCEPT 1 - Toyota. They and they alone saw the flaw in this madness and hedged their bets. They were pilloried for it but they stuck to their guns and have been proved right. Moral of the story, never trust Governments to do the right, sensible thing.
Having watched your recent submission regarding Manufacturers failing, we went to Marchall Honda in Hull, saw the car we wanted, a black ENY1 with white interior, we will buy that. "No, you can't have that" said the salesman it belongs to Honda and they won't sell it. Apparently he has watched customers leave the showroom, disgruntled and confused as to why can't we buy the car they saw. I rang customer service at Honda UK, a lovely lady informed me she would try to get the vehicle released, next day an E:Mail informed me it's not for sale. How long can Honda carry on in this way? They have the vehicles parked in dealerships around UK but refuse to sell them. If they need to get their percentage rates of E.V's vs. ICE vehicles, why do they carry on this ridiculous practice of losing customers? Could you shed any light on this, bearing in mind all the dealerships have a demo vehicle which one could order against. It is as if they don't need you the customer.
This is why manufactures are driving customers away, they put a Concept in the showroom, nowhere does it say this , get a massive +ve reaction , want one, told its not for sale so they walk away disgruntled as you point out . Now here is the kicker for them, they come back to market with the concept now a reality and there aren't the numbers of customers because they have found something else in the mean time.
I have an EV, I would consider myself a car guy, I have had 3 Porsche 911's. The car industry is built on passion and history. That passion is what propels car buying, manufacturers market the dream. Fast forward to EV's, they don't come with that same history and are more akin to white goods. White goods are a purchase born out of necessity, it is not an emotional purchase. And the market is price driven. Low cost car manufacturing has a history of producing dull but capable cars sold on price. A good example is the rise of Japanese cars in the 80's and 90's in particular in the UK and the USA. We are at a similar inflection point but one turbocharged by the introduction of EV's. Just my thoughts. - And will I buy an EV when my lease runs out? not a chance, dreadful depreciation, woeful, range, and a charging infrastructure that is unfit for purpose. I will buy a petrol car that stimulates my inner car person and keep it for 7 or 8 years
I agree with Martin. At age 67 I’ve just bought MY21 Giulia QV as my “do it and enjoy it while I still can” purchase. I’ve long been a motoring enthusiast here in Oz. I’ve typically kept my daily driver for 4-7 years. I really struggle to know what I’ll do next (Probably slightly used German M, RS, AMG type ICE) As my yearly mileage traveled decreases, EV “could” perhaps be next. However I think the motoring public at large will now more than ever buy on price (which means cheaper Chinese EV’s). . . Unfortunately!
Dull but capable cars could be made very much better with a small to medium investment. EV's struggle to have a bigger battery, would weigh considerably more and ultimately still be a posh dodgem..
There was no option available to Ford to electrify the Fiesta apparently. The platform is too old. I was stunned too to hear it!!! My first 5 cars were Fiestas. They have now dropped the pure ICE Puma ST too. Manufacturers are starting to panic over the 'fines' that are going to be levied for not hitting (pure) EV targets. I suspect this will be a moving target given nobody bar pure EV makers are anywhere near hitting the (20%) sales targets.
A deliberate decision of ford was to stop ALL small cars already a few years ago. Its just typical American "big is profitable" dream, thus just forget it.
Something that many pro EV channels have been talking about for the last 3 years. Certain Legacy Auto manufacturers are just NOT making vehicles that make people walk into their showrooms. Ford not having an Electric Fiesta/Focus means that people are just NOT interested in £60,000 SUVs. Volvo are looking far better than Ford, as they have various model sizes. VW are trying to sell their EVs at Audi prices. Vauxhall, Renault and Peugeot have some interesting models.
Vauxhall / Opel has become even crappier than before now as part of the french unicar . Have you ever owned a Renault then you would not get one again. Same for Peugeot. At least here where you can drive a car without paying road toll every now and then. 3 minutes and I am on the highway with unlimited speed. But you can not drive a Peugeot or Renault or Vauxhall as fast as all the VW Skoda Seat models on the market. They are too weak, jump around in strong high speed curves and the steering is to comfy without direct contact.
Manufacturers got obsessed with chasing massive heavy things with "petrol equivalent" 70+kWh batteries and putting in a load of premium features no-one actually cares about so they could justify their 40-60K price tag. The most interesting new EV coming on the market is the Dacia Spring _precisely_ because it's competitively priced. In terms of paying for infrastructure, the most compelling policy that's come up so far is a yearly charge for all vehicles based on mileage and weight. It's already all on the MOT and could be done monthly based on an estimate for the year ahead. If the government want to convince people to buy smaller electric cars, it's a simple way to disincentivise both massive EVs and massive ICE vehicles and it's fair across the board.
The underlying problem is government policy (in most key markets, not just UK) driven by a mixture of ideology and unrealistic eco/net zero timescales and targets. The car manufacturers have had to respond to this, especially in UK on pain of a £15k fine per ICE sale if the government mandated, incrementally increasing percentage of EV sales are not met, despite ever fewer EV customers. The principal issue with EVs is that real world ranges have currently hit a brick wall, and charging is time-consuming. Unless or until battery technology advances to provide a realistic range of 500+ miles, EV sales are unlikely to recover. STEM-ignorant politicians continue to promote (and legislate) EVs as the single solution, when H2 and synthetic fuels must surely be part of a sensible mix. You have of course made all these points before. However, I fear that you're right about the potential failure of a major car manufacturer, and when that happens, all the ancilliary and component manufacturers and a legion of related service industries will likely follow. Quite how the economy is meant to grow given this economic self harm eludes me.
500 mile ranges are not required. AVG UK daily mileage is 20 , get a grip. You can't have a sentence with STEM ignorant and then promote hydrogen or synthetic fuels I'm afraid. You seem unaware of the physics of hydrogen that makes it an entirely unsuitable fuel for cars. You'd need 2-6x the amount of renewable electricity to power cars via hydrogen or synthetic fuels for example. Sorry for being rude, but wow.
Let’s face it, the overwhelming majority of journeys are closer to 20miles than 50, people don’t need 500 mile range, a lot of ICEs can’t do that and never have. EVs have been pushed by governments because they allow them to claim no emissions without having to actually do anything themselves.
On the flip side, governments tried the automaker favourable cash incentives approach and the traditional automakers basically ignored it; so if the carrot didn't work then the stick comes next by way of a soft launch graduated ZEV mandate. Net Zero isn't an option as it's a binding target based on real world needs, that is unless you feel that your ability to buy a petrol based car in 2030 justifies sinking the Island nations round the world as well as parts of UK's east coast under the sea.
I follow ev development pretty closely and all I can say is, we're far from hitting a brick wall in terms of charging or range. Only the last 4 years have seen a meteoric drop in battery prices and steady rise in capacity due to the vast amounts of money being poured into r&d.
@@Lewis_Standing Couldn't have said it better myself. EVs have their problems but those are peanuts compared to problems with synthetic fuels and hydrogen.
I think the manufacturers will say to the UK that if your government stays on track for 2030 with EV only then they will just say we won’t build right hand drive cars for you. UK government need to include hybrid in the mandate like the EU does. As you say there needs to be a choice of propulsion which isn’t just battery. Hybrid and PHEV work well and have reduced emissions. Doing what they are trying to do in such a small space of time is going to kill some manufacturers. Sad times ahead and can be avoided.
Clearly you do not understand that hybrids are mostly a con, particularly the so called self charging ones. Surveys of usage patterns have found that they are mostly used in ICE mode.
If people used hybrids as you should I would agree for a stop gap but most will just use them as ICE cars. Hybrids have loads more that can wrong as well hey are worst combo for maintenance.
Very true. This dash for an absolutely zero emission vehicle, and prejudice against the low and zero-at-time PHEV, means older ICE cars will be used for longer as their owners refuse to buy new. I feel the point of the mandates is not just to clean the air; it’s to make cars expensive enough to make them luxury items only. Ordinary people can’t have a car this way. That’s the point. That’s the only rationale that makes sense of the mandates. They might as well just add a massive tax to ICE cars. Oh, wait, they already did -£15k on a new ICE car beyond the official target.
They are playing a game of chicken. If they pull out of one of the most lucrative markets in europe they will find it very hard, and expensive, to ever get back in, their overall market share will shrink and they will lose some economies of scale.
It's quite simple. Car companies have completely lost their ability to connect their customers and products emotionally for years. They focused on profit over passion, allowed customers to dictate design and now we have bland boxes on wheels, just all suvs. Look at how excited people were over the design of the Renault 5, why? Because it's not another SUV it's fun, quirky and a sign that at least one European manufacturer still has enough passion to stir up some emotion. VW, Mercedes and BMW have relied on sales in Asia to prop up their finances, not any more, while their home customers were left neglected with second rate products at sky high prices. Polestar are actually owned by Volvo who are majority owned by Geely. Geely manufacture their own cars as well as the Mercedes smart car, in china. Even the Honda eny1 is made in China. I hope Renault does well, they're committed to manufacturing everything as far as possible in France and where it's not, they will source from the wider EU. Not a single commitment like this was brought forward by any other company. Always been a ford fan until now, with that I'll leave on a simple...Vive la France.
Brilliant comment!! Renault have taken the 'design flair' by the horns and given it some French Va Vs Voooom! Every bit of my Renault Mégane EV is supplied, designed and built in France (even the wiring loom). No reliance on China! It has a Cockrell etched onto the windscreen to let you know the authenticity. The LG battery for EV's are also built in France, but from 2025 onwards, they will have their own French battery factory........a real model for other car manufacturers who rely on China and other countries.
Agree .. one thing I love about Tesla is they bring excitement! Love it or hate it, vehicles like Cybertruck are revolutionary and inspire many buyers.
Great topic. We'll done Peds. There are so many issues affecting the industry. I'm really concerned about the UK stance on the £15K fine for every car built outside of the 22% threshold this year. This has had a huge impact on née car prices. Manufacturers are going to pay the bil. They are just raising the cost of the cars. Whilst that seems like a cop-out, it leaves a huge shortfall when residuals fall so dramatically. New car buyers are just not buying the cars. This results in thousands of bew cars sitting around waiting to be bought. It's a disaster.
I just bought a Teska Model Y long range dual motor in the US. After tax rebates I paid a bit over 40,000$, Why would I even look at a long range dual motor Polestar 3 at 80,000$? In general I don't understand why I would care if Ford, VW or Toyota goes bust. If they can't cope with change they will be the new Nokia. Other car companies, with better cheaper products, will replace them.
As a businessman and a car-nut, I agree. You said it several times, "just not sustainable" 1. Neither the goverment(s) nor the car manufacturers are in charge of the future. That will only ever be decided by the consummer. 2. If you add 20-30% to the price of a car you cannot expect sales not to be affected. 3. The choice of "good" cars is massive. If you make even slightly less attractive models (Ford) sales will soon disappear. 4. Cars are now built to such high standards, you can keep them for much longer if you choose. My 7 year old german car is virtually factory fresh, still smart, rot-free, and completely fault-free in every way. 5. Full electric is fine if you park on your drive. But I have friends in London who can't even park in the same street, is this problem going to be fixed by 2030? It doesn't look like it. 6. One possible solution to private car pollution is public transport. But this will mean a massive investment and there is not much sign of that so far. And crucially it will involve fewer cars being purchased.
Yes, if you cripple the car industry and make driving unaffordable for the majority of people you invest proportionally in public transport. Doing the former without the latter will slowly bring the country to a standstill.
The problem is that net zero ideals have superseded common sense. The fact that only 1 in 11 EV buyers are private buyers says it all. But no, government knows best.
Rubbish. There are hardly any private buyers now because people are leasing, PCP etc so they can have a £50,000 car on the drive instead of buying outright something within their means.
They’re not ideals, they’re legal commitments made by signatories to the Paris agreement. EVs were meant to be the “cheat” to being to able to reduce emissions for “free” from the governments perspective. Without the pandemic and war in Ukraine it might have worked, but at this stage now both of those things have happened, the original timeframes are simply unrealistic.
The SMMT sales states show private purchase (loan/cash sales etc.) has crashed, this was associated initially with the credit crunch and latterly the expectation that interest rates will drop meaning private purchasers are deferring spend. However, within the private sales segment SMMT have also commented that Battery EV sales have either not droped as much as other fuel types (particularly Diesel and Petrol) or as in the last month's figures increased over the previous year (albeit by a small amount). The market segment that is showing growth is Fleet sales covering company car purchases where Benefit in Kind figures favour battery based EVs and contract based purchases (PCPs etc.) that also favour EVs as manufacturers are incentivising their sales via lower rates and discounts.
Pay for mile will killthe average motorist, also cause job issue's. Myhusband has to travel 80 miles a day to work and no public transport option, a leased ev is the only current option which makes any sense although i belive ev's are not the golden child but will bring about major problems for all in the future.
If you did have a public transport option it might still not be workable. As a regular commuter into London (which is probably one of the better train services) I will say the railways are in a terrible state. They would need a huge amount of work and investment just to get them fit for purpose. If can ownership becomes more expensive or difficult public transport will not be able to cope. People will not be able to get to work or will not be able to take / fulfil jobs.
You nailed it Pedro when you said that the future needs to be market driven not government driven. The way forward is through hybrid electric not BEV. Current BEV tech is wrong and is at best a working prototype. These vehicles require a comprehensive national charging infrastructure to work and even then, that's not enough. So what is the right BEV tech ? It's a battery that weighs less than 5Kg, is smaller than a shoebox, costs less than $100 and that can be removed from the car and brought into the home/office/services and can be fully charged in under 5 minutes. What we have now is the equivalent of the Rabbit phones. 3G and 4G became pervasive overnight as it was just way better... and the next generation of BEV will make what we have now look very dumb. Until then hybrid electric is the best solution. It's what the market wants too and the market is rarely wrong.
What are you on about? This makes no sense. The people for whom a BEV doesn't work can't benefit from PHEV either Since the only reason EV doesn't work for some right now is that they either have to tow very heavy trailers often or don't have access to reliable charging at or near their house /work.
Great video and one is defo going to go pop at some point. I have an EV and a petrol car, the EV was purchased at 24months old with 16k miles, has 8 year or 80k mile battery / motor warranty, the car was £1k less than a bottom of the range ICE version but we got atop of the range EV version. Costs about £3.50 to fully charge on Octopus energy and does 160miles per charge, its great around town local(ish) trips but for longer journeys I use the M4. People need to realise that its horses for courses - not everyone will be able to own an EV due to charging issues, but where they can and only for local runs its well worth it, the savings are mad right now.
Even if Volvo does not hit their own transition targets or profit targets for EVs, they're not going to disappear technologically. Geely, their parent, likely will still find tremendous value in the technology that's independently developed within the Volvo stable and shared across to other stablemate EV brands for revenues. If I have to put a bet on it, I'd say the Chinese will not allow Volvo disappear.
I’ve been struggling with the decision on what car to buy next as a retired private car buyer for at least 3 years. We have 8kw of solar panels and 2 Tesla Powerwalls so you would think it’s a ‘no brainer’ to buy an EV. Not so. As has been mentioned in other comments on here I think we are a long way off seeing the battery technology that needs to be available. Because I can’t see this happening in the next 3 years at least and of being certain age I have bought a new petrol car. As you have made clear in this and other video’s, manufacturers need to make cars people want to buy. Just on a final note, why are we all being pushed down the EV technology route? What about ICE hydrogen or synthetic fuels. I believe EV’s are only part of the solution. Great analysis Pete. Keep them coming.
Hydrogen ICE is impractical because you don't get the efficiency of fuel cells. It may well work for on site jobs like bulldozers which is why JCB is interested, but would you buy a car with a range under 200 miles? Synthetic fuels - well, look at how much synthetic oil costs compared to the ordinary mixed refinery output. Are you prepared to pay at least twice what current fuel costs? Same issues. It would cost a lot more to begin with because of the enormous investment in chemical plants needed, and you would have the same supply problems as early EVs. Synthetics are seen as a solution to the problems of motor racing, not everyday use.
@@tested211 We have a similar setup and a drive and have had an EV for 2 years. We will probably replace it when the next gen batteries come out in about 2026, because a bit more interior space would be good. But experience so far is of the never going back variety. Mind you, we travel a lot in London.
Let the market decide. Put all 3 propulsion methods on an equal footing and we the consumers will ultimately decide what we prefer. Don’t force us down ‘their’ desired path.
You just don't get it do you!? 'They' are not legislating against 'your' choice of car, they are legislating to reduce the biggest source of air pollution in our towns and cities. We don't NEED ICE any more, we have a better way of getting around...the persecution complex that ICE drivers display here is almost risible if it were not so sad.
They're on an unequal footing at the moment. ICE cars are cheaper whilst R&D costs and small production numbers keep EVs expensive and even then EV sales are trending upwards and ICE downwards. How badly do you think ICE cars would do if the footing was equal?
Reading about this today. Claims that manufacturers are ‘strangling’ supply of brand new ICE cars to meet the 22% target for new thus avoiding the £15000 fine per car. Delivery dates for new ICE Feb 2025 for instance. Therefore, figures for ICE looking to be trending downward and upward for EVs. SMMT data apparently. But you are right it would be interesting to see how things would work out if prices of all were a bit nearer. EVs naturally are currently more expensive.
@@stephenballantyne So mandating a certain percentage of sales be ev or face fines has nothing to do with it? Put equivalent tax on each (including road and fuel levies) and let them sell in a free market for whatever the makers want to set the price at and ev's would be a tiny percentage - nowhere near what they are now. The only reason ev's are trending upwards at all is because legislation is forcing them on people or at least making the costs of ice much higher than they would naturally be. EV's aren't expensive because of r&d or small production numbers either. They are much easier to r&d than ice and new ice platforms are generally released every 4-8 years. Most ev's now use shared parts with ice cars and an electric motor is hardly a stretch if you were listening in middle school. The problem ev's have is the battery cost and the knock on it has on other components because of its huge size and mass. Making a vehicle that can deal with an extra half a tonne than it would normally need to (including its crash structures/etc) is what costs money - along with putting a warranty on a single component which can cost multiple tens of thousands to replace and which also carries a high failure rate. Thats also why insurance is higher on ev's but on that level playing field that can be taken as part of the costs. On equal footings ice cars are around half the initial cost (plus the extra for the difference in finance or loss of investment if you pay it upfront), hold much more of their value, cost less to insure, don't wear tyres out anywhere near as quickly (and particulates from those are something seemingly ignored by ev lobbyists), don't do as much damage to roads, don't need half a tonne of rare Earth metals and filthy to get materials to build them, are far easier to recycle and much more likely to be, don't suddenly lose half their range if its a bit cold outside, usually have much better payloads and towing capacities, cost less to insure, don't need planning like a military exercise to go anywhere out of range, don't require massive forced breaks on any longer trip and are nowhere near as likely to give the 2nd/third owner a car scrapping bill for a part which is known to wear out after a set amount of cycles. On equal footings its not even close.
Thank you for your very interesting presentation, lucid and for the man/woman in the street, easy to understand. Please carry out more of this type of presentation.
There are some superb low mileage EVs available second hand ... I bought my EV new in 2019 and the car has been excellent and I'm keeping it long term, but if I was in the market for a replacement I would definitely go for one that's a year or two old and save a fortune!
It's even worse when you look at secondhand values. For £500 you can get a pretty usable diesel. There's a car for every price range. A £500 EV does not, and will not exist.
😂. Always love your videos, well structured and delivered. As a side note, my son has a Sterling Nova “project” on my driveway. He left it there for a couple of days… 6months ago. Kids hey!!!
Harry's is awesome and love his car and farm content but when it comes to EVs he's far to inside the industry and often gives very biased and inaccurate information and options
If governments kept their noses out of the car business we would not have seatbelts, catalytic converters, unleaded petrol, crumple zones and fuel efficient engines.
Fair play to you from an EV owner since 2019 but let me reset your thinking on this. Governments are not in the car business but they are in the business of making regulations that affect safety and health. EVs are a technology which massively reduce local air pollution as has been experienced in Oslo where 50% of all vehicles on the road are now electric. We have burned fossil fuels in engines for a long time and the results of that can be seen in illness and death, it's time to move on.
@Dan-hy5co - _"like a bus"?_ ... are you confusing the EV9 with the EV6, the 6 is a sports fastback style car about the same size as an equivalent BMW or Audi Sportback models.
Plot twist: the only reason we know about Ford's EV problem is because they published these figures. All other manufacturers are the same except for BYD and Tesla who actually make profits for each EV sold. The same thing is happening in motorcycling world where KTM is partnering with CFMOTO, a Chinese company and now CFMOTO is making almost the same, if not better quality motorcycles for a fraction of the cost.
The EU could be responsible for the wholesale dismantling of the european car industry. Hopefully the German govt will come to its senses and stop this EV madness. Jaguar will disappear in 2025, probably never to re-appear when they realise no wants an unreliable British Porsche Taycan rival at £120k.
You have mentioned the cost of manufacturing EV’s is much higher than ICE vehicle. We also need to take into account the disparate cost of any vehicle repairs and the fact that Todays Garages and Panel shops do not welcome EV’s. Add to that the chronic depreciation due to battery degradation and the cost of replacement and EV’s look most unlikely as being a viable alternative for the average Joe..Add to that the problems in cities with people in appartments or terraced housing where home charging is not possible and the course governments have tried to push everyone (for the best of reasons) is a recipe for disaster.
In North America the best selling vehicle is the F series Ford truck. People here use trucks for all sorts of reasons but a high percentage have them for towing boats or travel trailers (caravans) a few times a year distances that will exceed their battery range. I have yet to see a charging station where you can charge without unhooking your trailer (my truck and trailer are 50 ft long) and that is before considering how long the charge time will be. For me I see the market for trucks like the Lightning being commercial users who do a relatively short distance each day and are back in the works yard at night to charge, however Ford is pushing the high trim levels that commercial buyers don't want. At the same time they can't keep Mavericks on the lot, a reasonably priced compact truck (not suitable for heavy towing but a good for everyday use) that is available as a hybrid.
Traditional companies have depended too much on supplier ECUs thats now killing them in the EV market, nothing links and talks to the other ECU. the likes of Tesla have 3, maybe 4 ECUs at most, a traditional manufactures has hundreds, without vertical integration, they will always struggle. its why VW in particular has had so many software issues in their EVs and why they have bought into Rivian
I’m sure I read an interview with the head of Ford saying exactly this. Also that they also need multiple licenses for the software as every device has its own copyrighted code base.
Tesla operating margins are now just 8.6% - lower than Ford and Stellantis and barely above GM . It makes almost half it's profit from selling pollution credits. Vertical integration is a totally failed model from the early 20th century. Ford had it's own steel mills. Mercedes made their own nuts and bolts. FIAT owned, or had shares in every major Italian component manufacturer. They all decided that outsourcing and JIT works far better,
Errr no. Tesla has the same amount of ECU's in their products. The same as any other car manufacturer. VW is having software issues down to rushing the product out. Just like they did with a low NOx diesel engine... and we all know how that turned out.
Another wonderful video, I have said for years, no one needs a 2/3 second EV. A lot of manufacturers are using EV's as Halo products. When what is needed is a Model T EV, basic, affordable, with a 300 mile range. In the States Ford's Big EV and Petrol trucks are not moving, the model that is still selling well is the Hybrid Mavric. What does that tell you.
Like Ped, I have a foot in both camps with this. The thing that the modern consumer has been brainwashed with is the need for a new car. Most people’s parents came from a world where you swapped the car when it died. People now swap their cars when the PCP ends… Think how much CO2 production would be “saved” if we all kept our cars a little longer.
Great video, thank you. As you rightly pointed out, we need to transition to EV's on a "by choice" structure. Forcing manufacturers to convert and forcing the public to buy the bloody things is not the way to go. Let the Manufacturers develop their products and allow the public to select what they want. This current situation is not good for anyone.
Imagine if Ford had built a 'Fiesta' similar to the BMW i3 REX. Small (easy repairable) battery with a well packaged range extender. So many more people would be driving electric by now with no range anxiety or fear of huge repair bills. Loading up millions of cars with huge under-utilised batteries makes zero environmental or economic sense.
@@the_lost_navigator7266 - So you have to add an additional battery module weighing how many kilos per KWH? It is quite surprising how much extra weight of battery you have to add to get any useful extra range. It’s just not simple. Batteries need cooling too, and so plugging in extra modules gets technically difficult. Add the usual human ability to get it wrong, get it wet, store it badly, drop it, damage it, and you add up to impracticality very quickly. It’s a real shame as a modular approach to EVs is appealing - if you could only drop in a freshly charged battery as easily as swooping out a power tool battery it would be great. Sadly car propulsion batteries are a bit too big, a bit too heavy and if it could be done I’m sure makers somewhere would do it already.
@@sullivanrachael the car would be an EV with a small 50 to 80 mile battery. The range extender is a small simple petrol engine, not additional batteries.
The elephant in the room is government policy. If the manufacturers are prevented from selling popular products due to legislation, road pricing, the effect of lower volume fuel sales on the petrochemical industry (fuel prices for older cars), changes in VED, etc., As well as the list price, you have depreciation, the luxury tax of £410 and EV VED at £190, making it a £600 yearly tax. Jaguar relaunch aimed at £95k+ demonstrates the challenge when they were one of the first to market with the ipace, to forgo mass market EV's in favour of better cash returns. The cigarette industry is a good example today.
@JacksonFairweather Well ... We've got an older EV and a Ford Fiesta in the family ... I can tell you that it's the Fiesta that costs us way more to run and repair despite being used for 10% of the mileage of the EV! I can only speak of my own experience but EV range simply hasn't been an issue ... and unless you need to regularly drive 200 miles every day time of charging isn't an issue either. We have driven from Scotland to the south coast of England several times over the past few years and never even considered taking the ICE car ... and never had a problem. (Yes, we stopped more often but on a long journey that's turned out to be a welcome break!) Yes, there's no doubt that newer designed cars tend to have more expensive repairs (no matter whether EV or ICE).
Very enjoyable and insightful video. Consumers have choice and they are exercising it. As long as choice exist customers will exercise it. Value for money is key at any price point
I am considering a Suzuki as my next car as they are virtually unique in still offering a small, manual petrol SUV plus excellent reputation for reliability. However I am concerned they will do a Mitsubishi and pull out of the UK due to these EV rules.
The indications Suzuki have given, would appear to indicate they are looking to move their car range away from ICE to 100% EV in the not too distant future......
Suzuki is small cars and will stay like that as more than half of their sales comes from India, for sure an onhoing fast growing market!! Potentially the only Jpn manufacturer to survive this EV revolution.
Love your content PED. Not sure when you took the stats on the Polestar share price though. You quote $0.68. At the time this video went live its more than double that at $1.49 (and grown by 90% in the last 3 months)
Very interesting and insightful, Pete. It is no coincidence that the EU now have ringed the alarmbel and want Europe to invest hundreds of billions, because of the dire economic situation. It would be hilarious if it wasn’t so tragic. The EU themselves have put us in this situation and only now they are waking up.
The leaders of European, Japanese and US car manufacturers are totally to blame. They were warned. They even went so far as to fire CEOs who tried to steer their companies to a safe shore.
@@bobwallace9753 They were warned! They were warned that unless they threw 100 years of development with ICE and started to produce vehicles that very few wanted, Govt mandates would ensure that these companies would be sent broke,. So they are damned if they do, damned if they don't.
@@allomony4010 Anyone who understands the laws of physics knew that EVs would eventually replace ICEVs. For multiple reasons. I really don't think the leaders of legacy auto are stupid and don't have a grasp of basic physics. I think they just wanted to make money short term and leave the long term problem to someone else. Very few wanted, or very few could afford, expensive EVs like the early Tesla S and X. Great cars, but few budgets could stretch that far. Tesla followed with much less expensive models and their reachable market greatly expanded. The Tesla Y is the world's best selling car. Think what will happen as really good EVs selling for $30k or less become widely available. Think about what will happen as good EVs selling for $20k or less become widely available. Companies that can't supply those markets will be in a world of hurt. It's not about government subsidies and mandates, those were just pump primers like we see with many emerging technologies. It's now about economics, the amount of money out of your pocket every month for personal transportation. Essentially everyone will move to an EV because it will cost so very much less.
Perhaps true ... but the notion that we ever had a free market is a total myth! Countries have always had regulations and tariffs that affect the access to their markets ... not just for cars either. Nissan (Datsun) only started making cars in the UK because of financial incentives and issues with quotas.
A brilliant video Ped! The trouble for many of these brands is that they are part of a larger group which use the same platform to build their branded car on which then competes with cars in the same group and other group manufacturers. In VWs case they have Skoda and Seat which compete with the parent companies cars. It’s about time that the governments woke up to the fact that driving manufacturers down this route with stupid legislation is going to kill an industry and ultimately their economies off. Add in the local money grabbing schemes of local councils that want to stop cars completely then it’s a very worrying outlook for the motor industry. Bristol City Council are even planning to charge businesses £20 for every car parking space they provide for their employees!
People will not buy EV's just because the government have basically stopped manufacturers from making petrol or diesel car's they will just go & buy secondhand petrol or diesel car's? And probably half the country would have charging issues ie live in high rise building's or row's & row's of terraced houses let alone the cost of buying these EV'S & everything else that goes with the concerns of owning a EV!! 🙄 Another informative video pete nice one!!👌🏻👍🏻
I wouldn’t trust Ed Milliband to make a paper plane, let alone control the Government and EU strategy about what vehicles we are allowed to buy. He is a geology and engineering doofus.
@@timrothwell33 He is in charge of whether the UK adopts or is independent of EU net zero law and strategy. Plus he’s been networking all this for decades. I know him and his acolytes from Camden from way back.
Interesting video and you raise some valid points/arguments. Isn't one of the problems that cars are much more reliable and too expensive now compared to 5/10/15 years ago that the manufacturers can't shift them. It seems the only new sales are company cars and the 'general' public seem to be buying the ex fleet and relying on the second hand car market. Year to date new cars sales down 11% for personal buyer, up 19% for fleet buyers. For the personal buyer EV'S are just too expensive, as are ICE cars too. I'm an ADI and my last 2 EV'S for teaching in have been ex-demo or 12 month old cars, saving me around 30% on each car on list price.
I’m currently looking at changing my car it’s a Volvo XC60 diesel on a lease. The XC60 has been brilliant returning an average of just under 40mpg. We don’t need a big car now and I’ve been looking at EVs but I’m still not 100% convinced and with all the hype in the media it’s making it hard to commit. Great video as always
The number of comments and the tone of them already shows the truth of this. The Car companies have been hoisted onto spikes by Governments making up authoritarian targets in a market economy. They have then accelerated the slide down onto the spike by their greed in targeting high value customers and fleets but ignoring the majority of their customers. The answer to China is to invite them to manufacture in the target market to avoid tariffs. I think this calls for a follow up as there is so much more to discuss about this including a discussion about why private motoring is the main target for net zero, noting that the losers are ordinary people and not the industrial elite 🤔
I love how you have change your opinions on EV cars over the last 2 years. You posted a video on the cupra born EV and i commented on that video about the infrastructure etc. You was quick to put my comments down......how things have changed.
Totally agree with electric Fiesta. I was shocked that they stopped production of the Fiesta and didn't have an electric Fiesta replacement. Was waiting for that logical replacement pipeline to be announced, but it was a stupid decision. Until we all go full EV, Fiesta's in the second hand market (even before they stopped production) were the No 1 selling car. To stop making them and also to not have a replacement EV Fiesta is ridiculous.
The vast majority of buyers cannot afford a new car and never will. I certainly can't, as I'm at the bottom of the price range to be honest. EVs are out of the question for so many of us simply due to absolutely no chance to charge at home. And a lot of that is due to the way we live and the way houses have been designed for the last 100 years! Any EV hybrids will be banned from new sales in 2035? 🙄 Well I don't believe any functional "national" EV charging infrastructure will be possibly in just a decade. All these "apparent" mandates are ridiculous!
The point of argument around EV's not being fit for purpose if you can't charge from home is flawed. In most cases, even if you have an EV home energy tariff, by the time you look at the cost of buying and installing your home charger plus your electricity cost, for a large proportion of drivers who do less than 6,000 miles a year and keep their cars for 2-3 years it is as cost effective to public charge at the same charging speed (7-11kWh). There is of course a price of convenience in paying more for rapid chargers. I'm fortunate that my EV is a company car for my company and it affords me to charge on a 350kWh public charger (which is not out of my normal weekly commute) for the same price as I could charge at home on a 7kWh charger. And overall it still costs about between 40-70% less to charge it than filling up the equivalent petrol car it replaced. That's specific to me and isn't universal but people really should do the research than just rely on conjecture.
Posting this here for balance, (although some sense is being talked) as a BEV owner since 2016, I’ve discovered what a massively better experience owning and running one is than the many ICE cars I’ve owned previously, dating back to 1981. The caveat is if you cannot charge at home (super cheaply) it’s not as amazingly cheap or convenient, though still no more costly than ICE. But it still means that for 60% of the UK population BEVs are an absolute no brainer! And all the surveys with actual BEV owners show that over 90% would never go back to ICE. The way media misinformation and negativity has taken hold and put people off EVs is very sad for the struggling car industry and for our ailing planet.👎🏼
It is fast ponds and slow fivers and tiff love. I clearly recall seeing the ID3 cars being marketed at £30,000 UK on the road price to match the Golf market. Then placed a retail price the up front running costs for 7 years ( Based upon £2000 charging costs over yearly). Why would you pay twice for running costs? ( I will stick with my £2,000 of diesel) The final item is what happened the UK compared to the likes of Norway to support the swap over? Decent scrappage schemes, very decent purchase grants.
All manufacturers face the same problems; poor charging infrastructure, expensive and unsuitable models for the mass market, insurance costs and the lack of being able to charge at home.
One other aspect is that charging is not that expensive, but many cars are terribly ineficient. Apart from Tesla, Porsche and maybe KIA/Hyundai the rest of the cars are the equivalent of driving a 20 year old gas guzzling car, practically half of advertised range in real life when you hit the highway.
@@filippxx Except they aren't terribly inefficient, most doing the equivalent of 140+ MPG. What they have is very small fuel tanks compared with ICE cars. If you want to know the rough range of an EV multiply the battery kwh by 4 and you won't be far away.
Another great video I’m slowly working through them👍 Ford have taken a winning formula that has stood the test of time, you take a good car most of the time then give it the Xr/St/Rs treatment. Even the bad ones like the escort turned into an Rs with huge wing was a great formula and they were big volume cars for the common man. First the Mondeo then the Fiesta and soon the Focus they frankly deserve what’s coming. I’ve had a few down the years and loved them but the Mach E and that hideous Capri which let’s face it isn’t a capri means I doubt they have long left.
In fact, if we take a 5 to 7 years horizon, I would be surprised if there wouldn't be NOT ONE but THREE big legacy car brands going into financial/business failure or bailout situation. They are simply not switching gear (pun unintended) to the EV paradigm fast enough to overcome successive quarters of financial losses.
Within the next seven years I can see more than three legacy companies going bankrupt. Some will likely be 'rebirthed' by their national governments as happened with GM and Chrysler a few years back. But unless they manage to dump all their debt and start over as dedicated EV companies I suspect they will 'enjoy' a second and final failure.
Straight forward supply and demand. Demand is slow due to economics and infrastructure. Supply is costly with set up costs so prices are high. A perfect storm.
Where was the outrage when BL finally collapsed, the Rootes Group also. These were major employers in the Midlands, not just the cars but all of the industries that supported them. The thing is, companies die, new ones are born and OK there is a social element to this, mainly those who work on the shop floor, we can't afford to see the deprivation associated when the mines and steel works of the UK collapsed without any support from the Government. The major motor manufacturers have been dragging their feet for years over the future of private transport. I can remember back in 2019 Rugby World Cup, all the adverts on TV were for ICE vehicles despite the fact that Governmental plans for banning those sales had already been announced. Even now, the prevalence is for hybrids of some description. Governments also need to be honest about the role of private transport in society. Roads are pretty much saturated, most cities and towns have a Victorian road system designed for horses and carts and new roads, urban or extra urban, have been shown not to be long term solutions, just short term palliatives, so public and active transport and designs to make 15 minute cities a reality is probably important. Energy suppliers (BP/Shell etc) need to be honest about the future too. They should be trying to effectively corner the market for charging stations and even hydrogen, although I think in reality the latter is a busted flush. Governments also need to intervene with respect to charging facilities and inducements to entice us to switch to alternatives to ICE. Better public transport, both buses and trains need to be provided. The inability to not look beyond private transport as our way of getting around will ultimately hamstring us. So yes, get myopic about the loss of a Golf, Fiesta or any other such car, change will not come quick enough and that is a major cause for concern.
I can follow and agree with much that you have written, but disagree with your view on 15 minute Cities.All of the studies that I have read about them have been very negative , particularly from the populace within the areas used during trials.It seems to generate a lot of questions on the subject of quality of life as well as the many impracticalities.
2:09 problems going on at min with Fords Daventry parts distribution Centre . On the 8th of August they were forced to close it due to asbestos contamination! Things are starting to improve but it’s put them back approx 15 years where parts supply is concerned!
Forcing manufacturers to do what the customers don't want. Who would of thought that would lead to trouble, for those a penny short, I'm being sarcastic.
No different than the smartphones so many told me years ago when cellphones were coming out that they would not own one now the majority of the people do.
People want affordable, good quality, decent range EVs. No one has forced manufacturers to produce the EVs people want. Chinese companies and Tesla are doing it on their own and now are taking over 20% of the global market.
I've looked at EV's for the last couple of years that are advertised for sale, as far too expensive new, and test driven the Zoe and MG ZS. Yesterday on a search in auto trader for the MG MG4 trophy, for which I've looked at over 12 months, and the price new has dropped a third when I searched for new as well as second hand - the second hand ones coming in more expensive. Is this because the tax is down or that the Chinese are worried about their market share?
The world has been taken for a ride with regards to EV vehicles being the sole answer to our problem, thanks to people like Elon Musk! Why is it that governments do not listen/consult with the REAL experts on such matters. Yes, EVs are certainly part of the answer, but not the whole answer to the problem. Hydrogen fueled engines and e-fuels are certainly a serious alternative. Even Musk is currently developing hydrogen powered engines! Ford of America is shutting down its EV plant because of the staggering losses made on each EV ($40,000). And VW is shutting down two major plants in Germany with the loss of 30,000 people to try and curb their losses. Unless governments do an immediate U turn / delay things until it has been properly assessed so that the right decisions can be made, the automotive industry will implode worldwide!
Peter, great video. Putting aside the whole polarised narrative of EV v ICE for a moment and environmental discussion. What I am not hearing much about is the impact that the issue you raised is having on people who currently have jobs in the industry. If we continue to see the downturn in profits and share prices plus the prospect of losing a big manufacturer (and I believe it will be more than one), what about the livelihoods of the employees? This extends beyond the manufacturers to the industries that provide components etc. Thoughts?
Polestar thinks it's premium and have priced their cars at Audi pricing... But it's not... The synthetic cloth seats are a joke.. Consumers are not buying... They just changed their CEO...
Great review of what is happening out there in the motor industry. With the government saying that 2030 is the cut off for ICE's, they haven't looked at people who live in areas that having an EV is not viable. I live in a tree lined area where our house is 150ft + from the road, there is no way that I can charge at home or in the local area.
Can UK consumers start to see big discounts on new EVs given the resale value after a few years of ownership is poor. The car manufacturers need to adjust their prices for a start. Why is an EV more expensive than an ICE equivalent? The early adopters bought EV cars due to being able to offset the corporate tax. Why are governments pushing for this technology when biofuels and synthetic fuels look like they have more potential for long-range use. No one seems to talk about the harm to the environment and communities in mining for lithium for batteries and what happens to the disposal of these materials.
Good observations, Pete! For us in the industry (I'm working for a Ford distiburtorship), these last few years have been really difficult with the EV craze and glooming prospects. My fear is that Ford has lost its way and has plunged into a vortex from which it will not be able to pull out. I can't understand all of this EV hype. It's all about development and future, but we're clearly not ready for it. A lot of things have to line up in order for EVs to become our daily drivers, and I'm not seeing these things lining up any time soon. And you're absolutely right: there needs to be a sustainable middle ground in order for the industry to survive.
@@LonelyTreeSunset - degree of transition varies round the world, North America in particular is behind the Battery EV adoption/infrastructure roll out curve, other parts of the world are much more developed (including the UK). Hybrids therefore make sense in specific markets not all markets. Vehicle manufacturers will target each market differently, which in part why Volvo has reatined 10% hybrid production for laggard markets. Those markets further along will see majority EV adoption much earlier, and some already have.
Here in South Africa in just a few short years from seen almost no Chinese vehicles on the road they seem to be taking over with five or six examples at every robot. Most of those been ICE vehicles with a few hybrid. Love the looks of the Tiggo4 Pro. I think it's great. Similar spect Volkswagon would cost double.
The core issue at hand is that this is what you get when governmental dirigisme favouring hideous "there s only one best way" approaches become a reality instead of looking at the problem and leaving its solution to the creativity and competition within the market. Let alone that what they sell as their "one best way" is extremely unlikely to even solve the issue at hand. This doesn t only hamper finding a mix of solutions that then end up addressing the problem but only helps those already being on a very one sided track- whilst other that could have helped to solve the problem are driven out of the market entirely.
You have misunderstood what the core issue it. What you call 'dirigisme' (I live in France btw so I know what it is) is not governments interfering in the car industry, the energy industry or whatever industry...it is governments, through regulators setting standards for the quality of the air we breathe. The natural environment is a commons we all have to share and ICE vehicles have been polluting the commons for over a century. Now we have a technology where we don't need to do that any more to get around the place. In the future people will think how disgusting it was for an individual to spew his waste material out of an exhaust as he drives along, in the same way that we look back today at how people used to 'slop out' their human waste into the street before governments decreed that sewers must be built. You obviously feel some kind of persecution complex that 'the government' is trying to 'force' you to drive a different type of car than you do today. Well, the picture is a much bigger one than you and your car.
@@kiae-nirodiariesencore4270 I agree with your sentiments, However the government is trying to force EV uptake via legislation/regulation BEFORE the technology is viable from a commercial standpoint. .. Yes EVs work and can get good milage, but they are not on par with ICE cars on price and or range.. .. I agree we must have cleaner transport. The best way forward would be to wait for better battery technology say 10 years, or place some very heavy subsidies on EVs NOW to make them cost neutral compared with ICE cars.. .. The best way going forward would be to allow technology to catch up, is for a push to hybrid FIRST. This would allow people to adjust to the _transition_ to electric..
@@stuartd9741 You have an incorrect interpretation of what the government is trying to do via legislation. Your OPINION is that EV technology is not ready for the mainstream yet. My EXPERIENCE over more than 5 years and 65,000 miles is that EVs are SUPERIOR to ICE in every way (driving, owning, convenience and running costs). In a battle between my EXPERIENCE and your OPINION, I win every time.😆
There is nothing positive happening in the UK, it’s all doom and gloom. I had to laugh the other day when I passed a Kia dealership and they were advertising one of their cars at over £800 a month, what planet are they on?
Probably the new electric EV9, SMH.
They make brilliant EVs, they are trying their hand in the luxury segment as there's more profit.
The EV9 will be better than any EV range rover.
Effectively £1200 a month if you factor in depreciation 😂😂😂
@Dan-hy5coSmell of bull--t.
@@mikegregory8353who cares on a lease ?
I've never seen such insanity as these major motor manufacturers axing their most popular products and replacing them with something significantly worse and with higher prices. Historians will be studying this for centuries after everyone comes to their senses.
"Significantly worse"? Please provide at least one example of where a current ev (itself) is actually "significantly worse" than an equivalent ICE vehicle.
@@balkanleopard9728 range. Then there's the purchase price and poor supportability due to unrepairable parts.
@@balkanleopard9728 Price, range weight, depreciation, ugliness. How many more do you want ? 😂
Do you think the makers are doing this by choice? They're in the business of making cars, and also the financing end of that as well. That means if left to their own devices they would make cars people want to buy in large numbers.
@@jbm0866 yes, manufacturers could have lobbied harder against the regulations and they could even withdraw completely where markets aren't viable. Instead they dived in with both feet trying to push cars nobody wants and that's entirely their decision.
By ditching the Fiesta alone, Ford deserves everything it gets! 😜
Its funny Communist europe has mandates and capitalist China has free market competition with great cheap EVs and PHEVs. European brands are almost dead in China. Peugeot Citroen Renault Fiat skoda Suzuki Mitsubishi are DEAD. Ford volkswagen Cadillac Lincoln Chevrolet are next. Btw fiesta was not sold in China, even poor people are not buying such a small poor cars, mondeo is actually lowest you can get in China, of course with 2.0 turbo petrol and automatic transmission as standard, for around 16k USD.
I read somewhere it's coming back in 2026.... As an SUV obviously so it won't be a direct replacement but it will be a FINO (fiesta in name only) 😅
and asking 40 k for a focus wagon
I had to sell mine. A 10 year old ecoboost, and too much concern over the wet belt fiasco.
U wouldn't blame them it is our politicians with this push for electric cars. Ford is loosing money from everywhere trying to go electric so they need to cut as much as possible.
Nobody in the UK will even consider ordering a new car whether ICE or EV until we know the outcome of the budget in late October. Whether its pay for mile, fuel duty rises or other extra taxation to achieve net zero. Not a good time to work in Motor trade or supporting industries as confidence must be rock bottom. Totally depressing times we now live in?
Net zero is not achievable.
I hope the government don't introduce vehicle excise duty in the budget as planned for next spring , removing incentives too early was bad enough , 'car tax' for electric vehicles will decimate struggling sales , instead they should limit the rip-off prices at most public charges which is discouraging potential sales.
@@cynicalmanc unions seem very quiet over the impending job losses. Or their disquiet is being suppressed from the media.
@@LonelyTreeSunset or desirable
Reading between the lines.
PPM road pricing is being considered due to a "potential" loss of fuel duty tax revenues.
..
At the moment there are still plenty of ice cars bringing in healthy tax receipts..
..
If at some point, EV sales overtake ICE car sales, and the ice cars become a minority on the road, then ppm would be introduced..
..
So we're looking at possibly 10 years, (Inc building the ppm infrastructure, if it's not already built.)
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There's no justification for ppm charging as of now.
..
If it is introduced now then ppm charging is being introduced for other reasons then lowering tax receipts.
I am an avid VW buyer, my first hands on was an R32. Various Golfs and a Passat later, I drive a Golf R estate currently.
The issue I have with the ID range is they are just pig ugly. The range does not inspire any enthusiasm.
@@AlexBarrettOWI - if I went for an EV, I’d buy an ID3. I test drive one. Felt high quality. But heavy in corners, and effortlessly fast. That got boring. It made fast acceleration mundane. For the price of the ID3, I bought a 2nd hand Supra. That is engaging to drive, turns heads. ID3 is just an electric golf cart. The Supra a machine of purpose - fun!
Range, you will never drive 285 miles without having stopped for several breaks, and during these breaks, you can charge the car. I know very well that it requires that charging stations are set up, but they are almost in place.
Ford, VW, JLR, etc need to call the WEF and ask for a refund
Just realised I’m on the road to Cuba. Got my 6 year old car(which used to change every 4 years) booked in for a big refresh to last another 6 year rather than buy new. Don’t you just love where ideology takes you.
You think they don't have a plan to stop us doing that?
They'll do it through MOT criteria impossible to meet.
Cuba is less autocratic then the UK now.
I own 2 cars, a 20 year old mazda MX5 and a 16 year old Mercedes E Class diesel, both cars are working wonderfully well, with the range they were bought with. I was also an early EV adoptee, I liked it so much that i gave it to the wife. It is now 8 1/2 years old, done a bit over 40 k miles and the battery capacity and range has degraded by 42%. We will never buy another EV ever again, even with the government trying to twist our arms up our backs to do so.
Trying to sell cars the majority don't want will fail spectacularly it is inevitable .
@@lynnB3159 or just change the law here and there to force the move. We have no power while they have...
@@FredFox-m9v what EV did you buy? My 2014 Leaf still does 70 real miles, albeit slowly (same when it was new). 71k miles on the clock.
The ZEV penalties on manufacturers in this country is simply going to keep pushing prices up, currently every ICE powered vehicle a manufacturer sells over the current 22% electric threshold this year costs them £15k, it goes up to £18k next year with a threshold of 28% of sales required to be electric. The only way manufacturers selling cars in the UK are going to meet these kind of targets is reducing and rationing ICE sales, new EV sales are dropping outside of fleet sales as they are simply too expensive for many people and plenty of people will never be able to access a home charging point. Where do you plug in if you live in a terrace house with no off street parking or a block of flats?
Europe has started to put the brakes on this madness of EV evangelism we need low or zero emissions regulations not EV only or we are heading for a disaster. Let's not forget this EV push includes sales of vans which many small and medium companies rely on to run their business. A large Iveco sized panel van EV is £100k, how many companies can afford that kind of outlay once new ICE vans are almost impossible to find for sale at a dealer because they have sold their yearly allocation and all that's left is EV's for the year?
You could take a look at the problems the Emergency services are having switching to EV's and around having access to suitable charging. I believe the lead times for EV fire engines are around 4-5 years from order date to delivery. Ambulances are based on van chassis which are part of the ZEV quote rules and how many electric medical systems do you think are onboard drawing power when the vehicle is stationary? The same with powering pumps and systems on fire engines.
I am not anti EV but this current ZEV push is not based on the reality of living in the real world today
Infrastructure is currently an issue exactly as you describe for EV in those situations. Until either local councils start allowing sensible solutions that people have come up with to be executed without barriers otherwise the Gov will have to step in to remove obstacles to alleviate this. I know of landlords that object to allowing suitable 13amp chargers being used to charge cars.
Businesses get discounts and tax perks on vehicles as they are classed as work tools, and in real terms run these till they become uneconomically viable, some proper financial planning would make the transition more painless that you describe, and your scenario is currently 11 years away, even in year 10 an ICE can be ordered ( unless current govt switch back to 2030)
Your logic for emergency vehicle charging is flawed, look closely at ambulance , fire stations and police stations, these all have space for charge points inside the garages, thier issue is going to be with ensuring the local substation can cope with the load to charge , it may need additional infrastructure to cope ( the national grid is not the issue here).
The turnaround of building these vehicles (Fire and ambulance) should not change, as these are coachwork built on chassis supplied, ( just like busses) both fire and ambulance have refresh plans for their vehicles. With respect to your point about power, before this becomes an issue current vehicles will be running long after 2035, with the rapid developments in battery technology even in the last 3 years, there is another 11 years at least for on board batteries to cover the specifications required for the emergency service.
A lot of reaction are based on now and short sightedness to get reactions to these topics, a little thought and even minimal research will see it is not the massive problem that is being portrayed.
ICE will be around for well over 50 more years, (I hope) its final demise whenever that is, will be down to the oil companies draining the wallets of the drivers ( unfortunately this is a historical fact).
Thank you for an interesting conversation , 👍
@@stephencollins5706 Emergency services are being told to switch now by government with virtually no funding, they are currently getting around 1% of the required budget to switch to EV's if I recall correctly when talking to the emergency services lead on this. The charging issues are here now, many ambulances are based out of Fire Stations to cut response times but they have nowhere near the capacity to cope with fast charging large EV's. Conversation with the emergency services lead on this would say the national grid is a massive issue if pure EV is the goal, the grid generation needs to increase by 30% to cope with a like for like switch from ICE to EV and that fails to take into account government policy to replace gas for domestic heating with heat pumps which once again require electric power and more generation.
Gas boilers are due to be completely phased out by 2035 and new build housing will no longer be allowed to fit gas boilers from 2025, three months from now. Oil boilers will be banned from sale for new and existing properties from January 2026. Boiler manufacturers have already told government that plans to introduce a green levy of £120 per boiler from earlier this year will simply be added to the price of buying a new boiler which resulted in the planned levy being moved back 12 months to April 2025. All of this is adding to pressure on the national grid which is facing a shortfall at peak demand by 2028 of 7.5gw, more than 3 times the maximum output of the delayed Hinckley point C plant.
@@stephencollins5706 Doing some quick totting up, putting in the infrastructure to support mass EV adoption in the UK is simply not workable. It would require well in excess of 10x as many equivalents of the current UK petrol stations.
Government must know this, so clearly there is some other plan, perhaps to drastically reduce private car ownership. I can see why they might want to do that but if we don't make huge improvements to public transport to compensate PDQ, the country will be crippled.
The simple fact is that most politicians of any party have no experience of running an industry. They come up with their ideas without any knowledge of the effect their decisions will have on the market and the main manufacturers within that industry. They simply allow them selves to be led by the various pressure groups. Politicians are too used to dipping their hands into the taxpayers pockets , (which they think is an endless pot of money) and have no idea about profit and loss or having to balance the books. I think you’re quite right when you say there has to be a middle way where those that want EVs can have them, (and they have their place within the transport market) for city centre transport etc, while the market for ICE vehicles is still maintained whilst there is a need/desire for them.
Where do you get the idea politicians are 'running an industry'. They are making legislation to force manufacturers to make cleaner cars so that the common air we breathe is cleaner and we become less reliant on a source of fuel that we have no control over the price of. EV's don't just 'have a place in the market', they are an inevitable trend of internal combustion to electric motive power that is going on in the world. Sure, some people still like to use camera film, play vinyl records and keep an old Nokia phone....but none of those things pollute the air as you use them and THAT is why governments are legislating against fuel burning vehicles.
You're confusing policy setting (the job of politics) with policy implementation. Rather than wasting time, money and effort on shaping, blunting and delaying the policy setting they should have focused on profitably implementing the set policies. An industry restructuring is inevitable.
@reinmansmith well said 🎯
This is what pisses me off about the Tesla haters: If had stood on my driveway, with my friends, and said; My new car has 500HP, O-60 in 3.6s but does 110mpg and is silent. It doesn’t need services and has more interior space than the X5 it replaced …. They would all be agast. Impressed beyond belief… But when I say it’s a Tesla, they all sneer and get very grumpy! Petulant child-like. “Elon should shut his bloody mouth” “That thing will catch fire” “Doesn’t he support Trump?” “Car parks can’t stand the weight” “It depreciates fast” “Takes hours to charge” “You’ll need new batteries in two years and they cost £30K” “You can’t cross Europe in it” Utter imbeciles…
Politicians are just obeying orders from their sponsors !
My friend drove a Polestar at Goodwood FoS.2023 price was £62000,18 months later £26000 with 12000 miles on the clock...
It's a Chinese Volvo. Awful shite
@@andrewwaller5913how do you know? I have a Polestar and its probably the best built vehicle Ive had. Much better built than the Mercedes C220d, VW Passat and the BMW320d that I had previously. All from new. So tell me, how do you know?
@@jblue2435 It's awful Chinese rubbish. It's nowhere near proper German quality. How many have they sold, 5 ? 🤣
They just had leases for $299 mo for 30 months (for the 2 model) with 4k down or very similar. Crazy cheap for a 60k car. Obviously not selling. I weighed it in my mind but closest dealer is 3 hours away so I passed. Not going the orphan route with no local warranty service.
@@jblue2435you'll know when you sell it. Lease? your next lease will be double
Great topic Pete, and I can see why it’s a controversial one. As I’ve said before I live here in the States and from what I’m seeing in my little corner of Tennessee is the dealerships are stacked with pickups and SUV’s and they are just not moving off the lot as they once did. I talked to my neighbor who works for a local Chrysler Dodge Jeep Ram dealership and he is now selling in a week what he use to sell in two days. There are almost no economical vehicles here anymore aside from the Hyundai Venue and Mitsubishi Mirage if you can find one. The new Nissan Kicks SR here will cost you $30k. I drove by my local Ford dealership and they had one Maverick that was already sold and a lot full of F150’s, Expedition, and Explorers. You brought up the Fiesta and I owned a 2014 Fiesta SE and it was a great car and I miss that car terribly. I truly feel that Ford along with Chevrolet has kind of shot themselves in the foot doing away with their small cars in favor of large trucks and SUV’s. The other vehicle that I have noticed that is selling quickly here is pre owned Tesla’s. You can pick up a Model 3 with 30,000 miles on it for around 20,000-25,000 dollars directly from Tesla. While with the exception of Mercedes Benz a pre owned vehicle at a dealership especially a certified pre owned one is almost as expensive as a new car, and after you figure in the higher interest rates if you’re financing the payment comes out the same as if you purchased the new car. I know I’ve rambled on here, but I have a lot on this topic that I want to discuss. I don’t really care about what type of propulsion the vehicle that I own has. All I care about is having a safe (#1 priority) economical car to get me from point A to point B and back. I have absolutely no use for a $100,000 pickup or a $70,000 SUV. I know that there are some that do but I’m not one of them. To me it’s foolish to overspend on a car and miss out on taking quality time with my family on vacation and eating healthy.
The reason why large trucks and SUV's aren't selling like they used to is two-fold. First is the fact EPA overstepping their bounds has created a situation where makers can no longer produce tried and true V8 engines, and most buyers don't want a full size truck/SUV with a V6 or even 4cyl turbo in some cases. The next reason is economics related...nobody can afford the $45k+ for such a thing equipped like they want, and there's also the fear a Kamala Harris presidency will mean gas prices once again rising to pre-election year levels and beyond.
The manufacturers are basically being forced out of business. Great video 😊
Get ready for mass unemployment.
Better still, while you are still working, vote out the foolish mandates and the politicians that impose them.
Their own fault for not having the guts to stand up for themselves. All the CEOs today are Greenies.
I think the bottom dollar is that all new car prices are getting out of reach to most people. Coupled with poor EV infrastructure and expensive charger installation at home. I’m in a decent paid job but with the ever increasing inflation rates, Cars above £20k are out of reach. Bring back car prices from 10-15 years ago and that will get sales going!
Except for cheap Chinese cars
It does feel as though "family sized" vehicles are almost double what they should actually cost.
Allowing for inflation, cars today are cheaper and more reliable than they were in the 1990s. For instance, in 1990 a Ford Scorpio cost around £25000. Allowing for inflation that would be £60 000 today - which will buy you any number of similar sized (but better specced and higher performance) EVs. What we don't have is the frankly rubbish entry level cars we had to put up with until around 2000.
It isn't cars getting more expensive, it's increased rents and mortgages wiping out people's purchasing power.
@@EbenBransomeI've had company cars for years ..in 2004 -2009 we had to pick cars like the avensis they all had to be under 20k since COVID and Brexit they have gone through the roof
I attempted to buy a new petrol Audi, my local dealer informed me there was no chance. One of my pals informed me it is all part of the Zero EV numbers game which the SMT have fudged to reach there targets. The SMT have been quiet vocal that people cant get enough EV's, as they reached their UK target this year for EV sales. Only achieved by deflecting vehicle sales.
I have been convinced for some time that we are going to lose a big player from the auto industry. A couple of Ford dealerships in my area no longer sell new cars. And service and repairs is a very hit and miss affair by these former main agents .
I trust you didn't buy an EV and either 1 bought a second hand one, 2 bought a different petrol car, or 3 kept your existing car?
Bolton Audi would have sold me one a month ago. Try there!
The fudge game SMMT are playing is that they are claiming lug in hybrid, full hybrid and EV are battery 🤣
@@stephencollins5706 they may as well include ice cars in the figure then, with the 12v battery under the bonnet 🤣
When half the population have no option of charging at home, the government has no business banning sales of non electric cars.
Second hand petrol cars will become very expensive soon after this ban becomes complete.
Do you have a petrol pump at home then?
@@peterthompson9318 charging takes longer and costs twice as much per mile as petrol when carried out at a charging station.
@@peterthompson9318 LOL your thought process is at best stupid. As you ignore the greatest factor. Guess what you ignored?
@@peterthompson9318 That's just being facetious, and i'm sure you know it. There is a genuine challenge for people who want an EV and can't charge at home. It is surmountable, with the installation of affordable charging at supermarkets, workplace and shopping centre car parks etc., but there is no proper action to make that happen at the necessary scale. Doesn't even have to be fast chargers - 50kW at supermarkets and 10-20kW in other places would be enough.
Just sold my Nissan Qashqai diesel for 27% of the price I paid for it 10 years ago. Was reliable and cheap to run over 40,000 miles. Just bought a Renault Megane Etech, 7 months old, 4000 miles, 46% below RRP with the options added 😮
You make a good point about the lack of an affordable electric ford fiesta. These legacy auto companies should be asking the question about how to sell affordable electric cars at a profit. Battery costs are dropping. Tony Seba predicts $10000 USD EVs by 2030. So any new EV bought now will probably depreciate lots. The legacy auto makers could start looking at how Tesla and BWD are selling EVs at a profit.
I am an EV owner (Polestar) with a home charger and free charging at work. I only do more than 200 miles in a day, around three times a year, so they work great for me. However, the solution doesn't work for 50% of the population who can't charge at home. If the government worked on a solution (e.g. rolled out a charging network and charged 25p kw - the take up would be massive and profitable). The current network is so expensive and unreliable (outside of Tesla).
As others have said - ford stopping the fiesta and focus and selling cars people want. £25k is now their entry level car and £43k for an EV. Some people want a city car, not an SUV.
But it's not 50%. Nowhere close to 50% of people can't charge at home. More than 70% of homes have a driveway according to the last census.
@@timaustin2000 - OK, looking around, I did lowball it (different numbers show 65%-75%). But even if we take your number, a solution that doesn't work for 30% of people isn't really a solution. I believe that selling something to the public has to be easier / cheaper that the existing option. EVs are currently neither of these (if you factor in TCO for people who cannot charge at home). I think we have three outcomes 20 years from now that in someways overlap:
1)90% of EVs on the road will be 800V, and petrol forecourts will have to be like the grid-serve hubs but cheaper than Tesla-priced-people won't mind waiting 15 minutes if it is £25 for a fill-up rather than £70.
2)Pushback on EV adoption continues from consumers to legacy auto. One or two get sold/go bankrupt, and the EU is forced to reevaluate its 2035 targets.2035 is changed to Hybrid and 2050 is the new EV target
3)And linked to the above two, China slowly replaces the European car market as legacy fails
The depreciation on your Polestar must be horrific. Unless it’s a company car…….
@@cp4512 - yes. I purchased it 18 months old for £37k (£58k new). A year on I figure it's worth £20k-£25k. I am now very aware of the what it's like to experience the sunken cost fallacy. Trouble is, when I look around I can't see something I would prefer in that budget. Only real blessing is that compared to my previous car (M140i) and the others I looked at (Stinger / M340i / C43) that I save around £3k per year in fuel due to the free electric at work at relatively high mileage done.
@@cp4512 The depreciation is still happening. It will kill the leasing companies.
China was a huge market for luxury brands like BMW, Audi, Mercedes and VW. Unfortunately they are now buying their cars manufactured in their own country. Cheaper to buy, they make better EV's than the legacy car makers with technology 5 to 10 years ahead. China saw this coming ahead of anyone else and planed for it early. They even make 90% of all ev batteries. Once they start building factories in Europe to bypass the tariffs imposed things will get even worse.
Lets not forget the Chinese Government prop up their motor trade, to the point somewhere like 25 - 40% of there wages come from the Chinese Government, hence why their electric cars are so cheap.
I'm afraid you are correct. China paid attention to Tesla and copied. Western legacy laughed at Tesla and are now failing.
Being ahead in the EV world isn't really a good thing. It just means that you will lose your investment in R&D before other people lose theirs.
And BYD make 500,000 EVs a year. And Warren Buffet invested in BYD in 2008 and has made 6xs his investment. It’s going to be winners and losers.
@@whatthe6532 BYD may be a winner if EVs manage to stay alive, but it's value will probably drop a fair amount once it is generally accepted that EV mandates are going to get killed, EV subsidies will go away, charging infrastructure will remain sub-par, EV insurance will always be far more costly than for ICE vehicles, and EVs only serve a niche market.
No car manufacturer will succeed when people are forced down the EV route, build cars that appeal to customers. I.e range, price , practicality and longevity. The success would follow.
This is a really brief summary of how the car market was structured in the former USSR:
"Cars were scarce and considered a luxury, with long waiting lists for those hoping to own one. Production was centralised, focusing on utilitarian models designed for basic functionality rather than comfort or style. The elite had privileged access to more luxurious and advanced cars, often reserved for high-ranking officials, setting them apart from the average citizen. Only a few state-controlled manufacturers existed, producing vehicles that met the needs of the population. Owning a car was a status symbol."
Perhaps the future will reflect the past?
Russia could just retro manufacture 5 litre muscle cars. Instead they are forcing electric junk on their punters too.
Pete, It all boils down to one thing,you can't sell something that nobody wants to buy !!!.
But people DO want to buy them and they are!!! I’m nearing the point of purchasing my second to replace my diesel car!!
@@jvoric the majority don't do they !!!
AS a manufacturer you need to produce the 'something' that will sell, not what sold well last century.
@@Wolfman57 more and more are! Some are those are people that said they would never buy an EV! Once they try one most never wanna go back to Dino juice!
People do want to buy them (especially now lots of models have a range of over 350 miles), just not at the current prices, althought the prices for 2nd hand 3 year old ones has become better.
There are many issues here but fundamentally Ford, VW, Volvo and many of the Stellantis Group manufacturers are making the wrong class of EV cars. They’ve mainly gone for the high end vehicles without any real focus on what actually sells, small - medium sized good quality affordable cars.
What were Volvo thinking offering a family saloon with a 0-60 time of 4.5secs, a saloon without instruments or back seat space ! That is symbolic of what they’ve all done wrong, and now they’ve to rely on protectionism to save their lack of vision.
I ve buyed a E-niro... in second hand. A simple car with lots of space.
It's called greed. I don't know why people moan about Chinese cars being to cheap, then go and complain about cars getting very expensive.
Buy Chinese cars, and the other manufacturers will get in line
@@jomo2483The problem is the legacy auto just don’t know how to do it. Maybe the merger of VW and Rivian might save the day but such different organisational cultures will be hard to integrate.
There's very little difference between the cost of manufacturing a small car and a big one.
Obviously the big car sells for a lot more money.
@@harry130747 Correct, 'twas ever thus. Manufacturers started out with higher end larger vehicles because they can charge more for them. It is completely understandable. They were afraid to commit to the scale of production that would make a small car economic to produce ... because you have to make several times the number of small cars than large cars to make the same profit. It's high risk for them, especially with various governments blowing hot and cold and changing dates at the drop of a hat. They need to be given the confidence that their product will sell when they've built them.
Hi Pete, Good video. Sadly the current situation was entirely predictable and has arisen because for the first time Governments around the world have tried to force a massive change rather than encourage a change. There is nothing really wrong with EV as vehicles, in fact I believe many young people would prefer them as they fit into their lifestyle better, but they are currently just are not a viable option for most ordinary people at this stage. They are too expensive for that demographic, in the UK 40% I believe will never be able to charge at home, public charging infrastructure is abysmal and too expensive, without public charging the range is inadequate for anything except short commutes. Imaging how well this could have gone if Governments had managed it differently. Provided subsidised infrastructure development BEFORE limiting ICE car sales, provided subsidies to purchase EVs to encourage the purchase of EVs as the infrastructure was rolled out, i.e a well thought out and managed plan to move us to EVs over time. Because they believed the Governments around the world were serious they thought they could move to EV production and the public would buy them even though they were way overpriced for the average person. All of the car companies did this EXCEPT 1 - Toyota. They and they alone saw the flaw in this madness and hedged their bets. They were pilloried for it but they stuck to their guns and have been proved right. Moral of the story, never trust Governments to do the right, sensible thing.
@@billgreen8966 How long is a short commute?
@@SimonEllwood Easily within the safe actual range of the EV, i.e. no need to public charge.
@@billgreen8966 How long was a short commute before modern EVs came to the market?
@@SimonEllwood Sorry you have lost me, what is your point?
@@billgreen8966 How far in miles or km is a short commute?
Having watched your recent submission regarding Manufacturers failing, we went to Marchall Honda in Hull, saw the car we wanted, a black ENY1 with white interior, we will buy that. "No, you can't have that" said the salesman it belongs to Honda and they won't sell it.
Apparently he has watched customers leave the showroom, disgruntled and confused as to why can't we buy the car they saw.
I rang customer service at Honda UK, a lovely lady informed me she would try to get the vehicle released, next day an E:Mail informed me it's not for sale.
How long can Honda carry on in this way? They have the vehicles parked in dealerships around UK but refuse to sell them. If they need to get their percentage rates of E.V's vs. ICE vehicles, why do they carry on this ridiculous practice of losing customers? Could you shed any light on this, bearing in mind all the dealerships have a demo vehicle which one could order against. It is as if they don't need you the customer.
Madness 🤷♂️
This is why manufactures are driving customers away, they put a Concept in the showroom, nowhere does it say this , get a massive +ve reaction , want one, told its not for sale so they walk away disgruntled as you point out . Now here is the kicker for them, they come back to market with the concept now a reality and there aren't the numbers of customers because they have found something else in the mean time.
I assume it was a show car you saw, and if the dealer sold it, the dealer will not be able to show the Honda ENY1. SoI guess you should order it.
I have an EV, I would consider myself a car guy, I have had 3 Porsche 911's. The car industry is built on passion and history. That passion is what propels car buying, manufacturers market the dream. Fast forward to EV's, they don't come with that same history and are more akin to white goods. White goods are a purchase born out of necessity, it is not an emotional purchase. And the market is price driven. Low cost car manufacturing has a history of producing dull but capable cars sold on price. A good example is the rise of Japanese cars in the 80's and 90's in particular in the UK and the USA. We are at a similar inflection point but one turbocharged by the introduction of EV's. Just my thoughts. - And will I buy an EV when my lease runs out? not a chance, dreadful depreciation, woeful, range, and a charging infrastructure that is unfit for purpose. I will buy a petrol car that stimulates my inner car person and keep it for 7 or 8 years
I agree with Martin. At age 67 I’ve just bought MY21 Giulia QV as my “do it and enjoy it while I still can” purchase. I’ve long been a motoring enthusiast here in Oz. I’ve typically kept my daily driver for 4-7 years. I really struggle to know what I’ll do next (Probably slightly used German M, RS, AMG type ICE) As my yearly mileage traveled decreases, EV “could” perhaps be next.
However I think the motoring public at large will now more than ever buy on price (which means cheaper Chinese EV’s). . . Unfortunately!
Dull but capable cars could be made very much better with a small to medium investment. EV's struggle to have a bigger battery, would weigh considerably more and ultimately still be a posh dodgem..
I agree with you.
You will go for a ICE car. Will that be a plug in hybrid or?
Very insightful video Peter.
What Ford were thinking when they got rid of the Fiesta I do not know.
MBAs saw increased profits in next quarter, boosting their bonuses.
There was no option available to Ford to electrify the Fiesta apparently. The platform is too old. I was stunned too to hear it!!! My first 5 cars were Fiestas. They have now dropped the pure ICE Puma ST too. Manufacturers are starting to panic over the 'fines' that are going to be levied for not hitting (pure) EV targets. I suspect this will be a moving target given nobody bar pure EV makers are anywhere near hitting the (20%) sales targets.
A deliberate decision of ford was to stop ALL small cars already a few years ago. Its just typical American "big is profitable" dream, thus just forget it.
Something that many pro EV channels have been talking about for the last 3 years. Certain Legacy Auto manufacturers are just NOT making vehicles that make people walk into their showrooms. Ford not having an Electric Fiesta/Focus means that people are just NOT interested in £60,000 SUVs. Volvo are looking far better than Ford, as they have various model sizes. VW are trying to sell their EVs at Audi prices. Vauxhall, Renault and Peugeot have some interesting models.
Vw are in big trouble they ars golng to layoff 20000 people and close factorys
I wouldn't ever consider purchasing a Vauxhall or Renault and most definitely not Peugeot.
Nobody wants an EV. That is the trouble.
Vauxhall / Opel has become even crappier than before now as part of the french unicar . Have you ever owned a Renault then you would not get one again. Same for Peugeot.
At least here where you can drive a car without paying road toll every now and then. 3 minutes and I am on the highway with unlimited speed.
But you can not drive a Peugeot or Renault or Vauxhall as fast as all the VW Skoda Seat models on the market. They are too weak, jump around in strong high speed curves and the steering is to comfy without direct contact.
@@Ayeright. Your choice mate... It doesn't make you right.
Manufacturers got obsessed with chasing massive heavy things with "petrol equivalent" 70+kWh batteries and putting in a load of premium features no-one actually cares about so they could justify their 40-60K price tag. The most interesting new EV coming on the market is the Dacia Spring _precisely_ because it's competitively priced.
In terms of paying for infrastructure, the most compelling policy that's come up so far is a yearly charge for all vehicles based on mileage and weight. It's already all on the MOT and could be done monthly based on an estimate for the year ahead. If the government want to convince people to buy smaller electric cars, it's a simple way to disincentivise both massive EVs and massive ICE vehicles and it's fair across the board.
The underlying problem is government policy (in most key markets, not just UK) driven by a mixture of ideology and unrealistic eco/net zero timescales and targets. The car manufacturers have had to respond to this, especially in UK on pain of a £15k fine per ICE sale if the government mandated, incrementally increasing percentage of EV sales are not met, despite ever fewer EV customers. The principal issue with EVs is that real world ranges have currently hit a brick wall, and charging is time-consuming. Unless or until battery technology advances to provide a realistic range of 500+ miles, EV sales are unlikely to recover. STEM-ignorant politicians continue to promote (and legislate) EVs as the single solution, when H2 and synthetic fuels must surely be part of a sensible mix. You have of course made all these points before. However, I fear that you're right about the potential failure of a major car manufacturer, and when that happens, all the ancilliary and component manufacturers and a legion of related service industries will likely follow. Quite how the economy is meant to grow given this economic self harm eludes me.
500 mile ranges are not required. AVG UK daily mileage is 20 , get a grip.
You can't have a sentence with STEM ignorant and then promote hydrogen or synthetic fuels I'm afraid. You seem unaware of the physics of hydrogen that makes it an entirely unsuitable fuel for cars. You'd need 2-6x the amount of renewable electricity to power cars via hydrogen or synthetic fuels for example.
Sorry for being rude, but wow.
Let’s face it, the overwhelming majority of journeys are closer to 20miles than 50, people don’t need 500 mile range, a lot of ICEs can’t do that and never have. EVs have been pushed by governments because they allow them to claim no emissions without having to actually do anything themselves.
On the flip side, governments tried the automaker favourable cash incentives approach and the traditional automakers basically ignored it; so if the carrot didn't work then the stick comes next by way of a soft launch graduated ZEV mandate. Net Zero isn't an option as it's a binding target based on real world needs, that is unless you feel that your ability to buy a petrol based car in 2030 justifies sinking the Island nations round the world as well as parts of UK's east coast under the sea.
I follow ev development pretty closely and all I can say is, we're far from hitting a brick wall in terms of charging or range. Only the last 4 years have seen a meteoric drop in battery prices and steady rise in capacity due to the vast amounts of money being poured into r&d.
@@Lewis_Standing Couldn't have said it better myself. EVs have their problems but those are peanuts compared to problems with synthetic fuels and hydrogen.
I think the manufacturers will say to the UK that if your government stays on track for 2030 with EV only then they will just say we won’t build right hand drive cars for you. UK government need to include hybrid in the mandate like the EU does.
As you say there needs to be a choice of propulsion which isn’t just battery. Hybrid and PHEV work well and have reduced emissions. Doing what they are trying to do in such a small space of time is going to kill some manufacturers. Sad times ahead and can be avoided.
Clearly you do not understand that hybrids are mostly a con, particularly the so called self charging ones. Surveys of usage patterns have found that they are mostly used in ICE mode.
If people used hybrids as you should I would agree for a stop gap but most will just use them as ICE cars. Hybrids have loads more that can wrong as well hey are worst combo for maintenance.
Very true. This dash for an absolutely zero emission vehicle, and prejudice against the low and zero-at-time PHEV, means older ICE cars will be used for longer as their owners refuse to buy new. I feel the point of the mandates is not just to clean the air; it’s to make cars expensive enough to make them luxury items only. Ordinary people can’t have a car this way. That’s the point. That’s the only rationale that makes sense of the mandates. They might as well just add a massive tax to ICE cars. Oh, wait, they already did -£15k on a new ICE car beyond the official target.
They are playing a game of chicken. If they pull out of one of the most lucrative markets in europe they will find it very hard, and expensive, to ever get back in, their overall market share will shrink and they will lose some economies of scale.
@@johnbaker5533Agreed, I wouldn’t touch a hybrid. They’re not exactly cheap either.
It's quite simple. Car companies have completely lost their ability to connect their customers and products emotionally for years. They focused on profit over passion, allowed customers to dictate design and now we have bland boxes on wheels, just all suvs. Look at how excited people were over the design of the Renault 5, why? Because it's not another SUV it's fun, quirky and a sign that at least one European manufacturer still has enough passion to stir up some emotion.
VW, Mercedes and BMW have relied on sales in Asia to prop up their finances, not any more, while their home customers were left neglected with second rate products at sky high prices. Polestar are actually owned by Volvo who are majority owned by Geely. Geely manufacture their own cars as well as the Mercedes smart car, in china. Even the Honda eny1 is made in China.
I hope Renault does well, they're committed to manufacturing everything as far as possible in France and where it's not, they will source from the wider EU. Not a single commitment like this was brought forward by any other company. Always been a ford fan until now, with that I'll leave on a simple...Vive la France.
Brilliant comment!! Renault have taken the 'design flair' by the horns and given it some French Va Vs Voooom!
Every bit of my Renault Mégane EV is supplied, designed and built in France (even the wiring loom). No reliance on China! It has a Cockrell etched onto the windscreen to let you know the authenticity.
The LG battery for EV's are also built in France, but from 2025 onwards, they will have their own French battery factory........a real model for other car manufacturers who rely on China and other countries.
Agree .. one thing I love about Tesla is they bring excitement! Love it or hate it, vehicles like Cybertruck are revolutionary and inspire many buyers.
@@solarguy4850 can't disagree with that. They have a personality, though admittedly one I dont like.
Agreed, but to be honest it was mainly government policy and subsidies forcing them.
Great topic. We'll done Peds. There are so many issues affecting the industry. I'm really concerned about the UK stance on the £15K fine for every car built outside of the 22% threshold this year.
This has had a huge impact on née car prices.
Manufacturers are going to pay the bil. They are just raising the cost of the cars.
Whilst that seems like a cop-out, it leaves a huge shortfall when residuals fall so dramatically.
New car buyers are just not buying the cars.
This results in thousands of bew cars sitting around waiting to be bought.
It's a disaster.
Also the whole leasing structure will collapse. There's no way they can cope with the current drop in value of a 3 year old car when it's returned.
I just bought a Teska Model Y long range dual motor in the US. After tax rebates I paid a bit over 40,000$, Why would I even look at a long range dual motor Polestar 3 at 80,000$? In general I don't understand why I would care if Ford, VW or Toyota goes bust. If they can't cope with change they will be the new Nokia. Other car companies, with better cheaper products, will replace them.
Most people cannot afford $40k. Most people cannot afford even the secondhand prices of EVs. Most people can afford an old ICV.
As a businessman and a car-nut, I agree. You said it several times, "just not sustainable"
1. Neither the goverment(s) nor the car manufacturers are in charge of the future. That will only ever be decided by the consummer.
2. If you add 20-30% to the price of a car you cannot expect sales not to be affected.
3. The choice of "good" cars is massive. If you make even slightly less attractive models (Ford) sales will soon disappear.
4. Cars are now built to such high standards, you can keep them for much longer if you choose. My 7 year old german car is virtually factory fresh, still smart, rot-free, and completely fault-free in every way.
5. Full electric is fine if you park on your drive. But I have friends in London who can't even park in the same street, is this problem going to be fixed by 2030? It doesn't look like it.
6. One possible solution to private car pollution is public transport. But this will mean a massive investment and there is not much sign of that so far. And crucially it will involve fewer cars being purchased.
Yes, if you cripple the car industry and make driving unaffordable for the majority of people you invest proportionally in public transport. Doing the former without the latter will slowly bring the country to a standstill.
The problem is that net zero ideals have superseded common sense.
The fact that only 1 in 11 EV buyers are private buyers says it all. But no, government knows best.
Rubbish. There are hardly any private buyers now because people are leasing, PCP etc so they can have a £50,000 car on the drive instead of buying outright something within their means.
They’re not ideals, they’re legal commitments made by signatories to the Paris agreement. EVs were meant to be the “cheat” to being to able to reduce emissions for “free” from the governments perspective. Without the pandemic and war in Ukraine it might have worked, but at this stage now both of those things have happened, the original timeframes are simply unrealistic.
And who is going to prosecute us if we don't meet the artificial net-zero target? Nobody. End this nonsense.
@@Yorkshireasaurus it is what I have done since 2013 and until this year when I qualified for a company car
The SMMT sales states show private purchase (loan/cash sales etc.) has crashed, this was associated initially with the credit crunch and latterly the expectation that interest rates will drop meaning private purchasers are deferring spend. However, within the private sales segment SMMT have also commented that Battery EV sales have either not droped as much as other fuel types (particularly Diesel and Petrol) or as in the last month's figures increased over the previous year (albeit by a small amount).
The market segment that is showing growth is Fleet sales covering company car purchases where Benefit in Kind figures favour battery based EVs and contract based purchases (PCPs etc.) that also favour EVs as manufacturers are incentivising their sales via lower rates and discounts.
Regardless of brands going bust, it's inevitable that some brands will withdraw from the UK market.
Pay for mile will killthe average motorist, also cause job issue's. Myhusband has to travel 80 miles a day to work and no public transport option, a leased ev is the only current option which makes any sense although i belive ev's are not the golden child but will bring about major problems for all in the future.
Pay-per-lane is in the planning.
If you did have a public transport option it might still not be workable. As a regular commuter into London (which is probably one of the better train services) I will say the railways are in a terrible state. They would need a huge amount of work and investment just to get them fit for purpose. If can ownership becomes more expensive or difficult public transport will not be able to cope. People will not be able to get to work or will not be able to take / fulfil jobs.
Polestar also looking to build in Korea for the P4...three models rather than one, maybe that gives them some hope to triple 2023 sales
You nailed it Pedro when you said that the future needs to be market driven not government driven. The way forward is through hybrid electric not BEV. Current BEV tech is wrong and is at best a working prototype. These vehicles require a comprehensive national charging infrastructure to work and even then, that's not enough. So what is the right BEV tech ? It's a battery that weighs less than 5Kg, is smaller than a shoebox, costs less than $100 and that can be removed from the car and brought into the home/office/services and can be fully charged in under 5 minutes. What we have now is the equivalent of the Rabbit phones. 3G and 4G became pervasive overnight as it was just way better... and the next generation of BEV will make what we have now look very dumb. Until then hybrid electric is the best solution. It's what the market wants too and the market is rarely wrong.
Nonsense!
What are you on about? This makes no sense. The people for whom a BEV doesn't work can't benefit from PHEV either
Since the only reason EV doesn't work for some right now is that they either have to tow very heavy trailers often or don't have access to reliable charging at or near their house /work.
Great video and one is defo going to go pop at some point.
I have an EV and a petrol car, the EV was purchased at 24months old with 16k miles, has 8 year or 80k mile battery / motor warranty, the car was £1k less than a bottom of the range ICE version but we got atop of the range EV version.
Costs about £3.50 to fully charge on Octopus energy and does 160miles per charge, its great around town local(ish) trips but for longer journeys I use the M4.
People need to realise that its horses for courses - not everyone will be able to own an EV due to charging issues, but where they can and only for local runs its well worth it, the savings are mad right now.
Even if Volvo does not hit their own transition targets or profit targets for EVs, they're not going to disappear technologically. Geely, their parent, likely will still find tremendous value in the technology that's independently developed within the Volvo stable and shared across to other stablemate EV brands for revenues. If I have to put a bet on it, I'd say the Chinese will not allow Volvo disappear.
I’ve been struggling with the decision on what car to buy next as a retired private car buyer for at least 3 years. We have 8kw of solar panels and 2 Tesla Powerwalls so you would think it’s a ‘no brainer’ to buy an EV. Not so. As has been mentioned in other comments on here I think we are a long way off seeing the battery technology that needs to be available. Because I can’t see this happening in the next 3 years at least and of being certain age I have bought a new petrol car. As you have made clear in this and other video’s, manufacturers need to make cars people want to buy.
Just on a final note, why are we all being pushed down the EV technology route? What about ICE hydrogen or synthetic fuels. I believe EV’s are only part of the solution. Great analysis Pete. Keep them coming.
Hydrogen ICE is impractical because you don't get the efficiency of fuel cells. It may well work for on site jobs like bulldozers which is why JCB is interested, but would you buy a car with a range under 200 miles? Synthetic fuels - well, look at how much synthetic oil costs compared to the ordinary mixed refinery output. Are you prepared to pay at least twice what current fuel costs? Same issues. It would cost a lot more to begin with because of the enormous investment in chemical plants needed, and you would have the same supply problems as early EVs. Synthetics are seen as a solution to the problems of motor racing, not everyday use.
Interesting, do you mind me asking if you have a private drive? (just that you are a "best" case for an EV on paper)
@@tested211 We have a similar setup and a drive and have had an EV for 2 years. We will probably replace it when the next gen batteries come out in about 2026, because a bit more interior space would be good. But experience so far is of the never going back variety. Mind you, we travel a lot in London.
Let the market decide. Put all 3 propulsion methods on an equal footing and we the consumers will ultimately decide what we prefer. Don’t force us down ‘their’ desired path.
You just don't get it do you!? 'They' are not legislating against 'your' choice of car, they are legislating to reduce the biggest source of air pollution in our towns and cities. We don't NEED ICE any more, we have a better way of getting around...the persecution complex that ICE drivers display here is almost risible if it were not so sad.
They're on an unequal footing at the moment. ICE cars are cheaper whilst R&D costs and small production numbers keep EVs expensive and even then EV sales are trending upwards and ICE downwards. How badly do you think ICE cars would do if the footing was equal?
Reading about this today. Claims that manufacturers are ‘strangling’ supply of brand new ICE cars to meet the 22% target for new thus avoiding the £15000 fine per car. Delivery dates for new ICE Feb 2025 for instance. Therefore, figures for ICE looking to be trending downward and upward for EVs. SMMT data apparently. But you are right it would be interesting to see how things would work out if prices of all were a bit nearer. EVs naturally are currently more expensive.
@@stephenballantyne So mandating a certain percentage of sales be ev or face fines has nothing to do with it?
Put equivalent tax on each (including road and fuel levies) and let them sell in a free market for whatever the makers want to set the price at and ev's would be a tiny percentage - nowhere near what they are now.
The only reason ev's are trending upwards at all is because legislation is forcing them on people or at least making the costs of ice much higher than they would naturally be.
EV's aren't expensive because of r&d or small production numbers either. They are much easier to r&d than ice and new ice platforms are generally released every 4-8 years. Most ev's now use shared parts with ice cars and an electric motor is hardly a stretch if you were listening in middle school. The problem ev's have is the battery cost and the knock on it has on other components because of its huge size and mass. Making a vehicle that can deal with an extra half a tonne than it would normally need to (including its crash structures/etc) is what costs money - along with putting a warranty on a single component which can cost multiple tens of thousands to replace and which also carries a high failure rate.
Thats also why insurance is higher on ev's but on that level playing field that can be taken as part of the costs.
On equal footings ice cars are around half the initial cost (plus the extra for the difference in finance or loss of investment if you pay it upfront), hold much more of their value, cost less to insure, don't wear tyres out anywhere near as quickly (and particulates from those are something seemingly ignored by ev lobbyists), don't do as much damage to roads, don't need half a tonne of rare Earth metals and filthy to get materials to build them, are far easier to recycle and much more likely to be, don't suddenly lose half their range if its a bit cold outside, usually have much better payloads and towing capacities, cost less to insure, don't need planning like a military exercise to go anywhere out of range, don't require massive forced breaks on any longer trip and are nowhere near as likely to give the 2nd/third owner a car scrapping bill for a part which is known to wear out after a set amount of cycles.
On equal footings its not even close.
@@johndawson5718 They are even listing EV's as "sold" to avoid the fine and then selling them as "ultra low mileage used" later.
Thank you for your very interesting presentation, lucid and for the man/woman in the street, easy to understand. Please carry out more of this type of presentation.
Thank you, I will 👍
Its the cost - EVs are too expensive. Renault 5 in France is at least €29K before options.
There are some superb low mileage EVs available second hand ... I bought my EV new in 2019 and the car has been excellent and I'm keeping it long term, but if I was in the market for a replacement I would definitely go for one that's a year or two old and save a fortune!
It's even worse when you look at secondhand values. For £500 you can get a pretty usable diesel. There's a car for every price range. A £500 EV does not, and will not exist.
@@SmileyEmoji42 Yes I've driven behind some of those £500 diesels ... but I would prefer not to!
That’s mental. The original Renault 5 was a great budget friendly car for young people
Yes please for part 3 looking at some other brands. Great video!
Ties up perfectly with the Harry’s Garage TH-cam channel recently. Well worth a watch.
Interesting video. He released it after my ZEV video 🤔😜
😂. Always love your videos, well structured and delivered. As a side note, my son has a Sterling Nova “project” on my driveway. He left it there for a couple of days… 6months ago. Kids hey!!!
Harry's is awesome and love his car and farm content but when it comes to EVs he's far to inside the industry and often gives very biased and inaccurate information and options
@@bwarey52so when you finish your shift at McDonald’s maybe you can point out where Harry has been wrong
It’s total lack of infrastructure and Cost per unit..
I own a Tesla but at the same time I’m fully aware that the customer needs the right to choose. Get the government’s nose out of business!
If governments kept their noses out of the car business we would not have seatbelts, catalytic converters, unleaded petrol, crumple zones and fuel efficient engines.
@@nealm1814 My thoughts exactly
Subsidies for oil and gas have been rampant for years. Incentivizing EVs and Battery plants are merely levelling the playing field.
Why did you write ‘but’ Elon would agree with you, while collecting billions in subsidies.
Fair play to you from an EV owner since 2019 but let me reset your thinking on this. Governments are not in the car business but they are in the business of making regulations that affect safety and health. EVs are a technology which massively reduce local air pollution as has been experienced in Oslo where 50% of all vehicles on the road are now electric. We have burned fossil fuels in engines for a long time and the results of that can be seen in illness and death, it's time to move on.
I changed to Kia EV6 last year best thing i done absolutely love it even though i have not got a home charger..
Great car, brilliant around our local B roads in the test drive I took.
@Dan-hy5co - _"like a bus"?_ ... are you confusing the EV9 with the EV6, the 6 is a sports fastback style car about the same size as an equivalent BMW or Audi Sportback models.
@Dan-hy5co
I actually drive a bus for a living and it's far from that...
Plot twist: the only reason we know about Ford's EV problem is because they published these figures. All other manufacturers are the same except for BYD and Tesla who actually make profits for each EV sold.
The same thing is happening in motorcycling world where KTM is partnering with CFMOTO, a Chinese company and now CFMOTO is making almost the same, if not better quality motorcycles for a fraction of the cost.
Agreed but not sure bud is making profits with EVs. They are propped up by ice sales and the Chinese government.
The EU could be responsible for the wholesale dismantling of the european car industry. Hopefully the German govt will come to its senses and stop this EV madness. Jaguar will disappear in 2025, probably never to re-appear when they realise no wants an unreliable British Porsche Taycan rival at £120k.
What’s the Geely other brand being built same line as Polestar. Thanks.
You have mentioned the cost of manufacturing EV’s is much higher than ICE vehicle. We also need to take into account the disparate cost of any vehicle repairs and the fact that Todays Garages and Panel shops do not welcome EV’s. Add to that the chronic depreciation due to battery degradation and the cost of replacement and EV’s look most unlikely as being a viable alternative for the average Joe..Add to that the problems in cities with people in appartments or terraced housing where home charging is not possible and the course governments have tried to push everyone (for the best of reasons) is a recipe for disaster.
Perhaps the reason for EV's costing more is down to the manufacturer requiring a whole new retool of the factories.
In North America the best selling vehicle is the F series Ford truck. People here use trucks for all sorts of reasons but a high percentage have them for towing boats or travel trailers (caravans) a few times a year distances that will exceed their battery range. I have yet to see a charging station where you can charge without unhooking your trailer (my truck and trailer are 50 ft long) and that is before considering how long the charge time will be. For me I see the market for trucks like the Lightning being commercial users who do a relatively short distance each day and are back in the works yard at night to charge, however Ford is pushing the high trim levels that commercial buyers don't want. At the same time they can't keep Mavericks on the lot, a reasonably priced compact truck (not suitable for heavy towing but a good for everyday use) that is available as a hybrid.
Traditional companies have depended too much on supplier ECUs thats now killing them in the EV market, nothing links and talks to the other ECU. the likes of Tesla have 3, maybe 4 ECUs at most, a traditional manufactures has hundreds, without vertical integration, they will always struggle. its why VW in particular has had so many software issues in their EVs and why they have bought into Rivian
I’m sure I read an interview with the head of Ford saying exactly this. Also that they also need multiple licenses for the software as every device has its own copyrighted code base.
Tesla operating margins are now just 8.6% - lower than Ford and Stellantis and barely above GM . It makes almost half it's profit from selling pollution credits.
Vertical integration is a totally failed model from the early 20th century. Ford had it's own steel mills. Mercedes made their own nuts and bolts. FIAT owned, or had shares in every major Italian component manufacturer. They all decided that outsourcing and JIT works far better,
Errr no. Tesla has the same amount of ECU's in their products. The same as any other car manufacturer. VW is having software issues down to rushing the product out. Just like they did with a low NOx diesel engine... and we all know how that turned out.
Another wonderful video, I have said for years, no one needs a 2/3 second EV. A lot of manufacturers are using EV's as Halo products. When what is needed is a Model T EV, basic, affordable, with a 300 mile range.
In the States Ford's Big EV and Petrol trucks are not moving, the model that is still selling well is the Hybrid Mavric. What does that tell you.
Like Ped, I have a foot in both camps with this. The thing that the modern consumer has been brainwashed with is the need for a new car. Most people’s parents came from a world where you swapped the car when it died. People now swap their cars when the PCP ends… Think how much CO2 production would be “saved” if we all kept our cars a little longer.
Great video, thank you. As you rightly pointed out, we need to transition to EV's on a "by choice" structure. Forcing manufacturers to convert and forcing the public to buy the bloody things is not the way to go. Let the Manufacturers develop their products and allow the public to select what they want. This current situation is not good for anyone.
Imagine if Ford had built a 'Fiesta' similar to the BMW i3 REX. Small (easy repairable) battery with a well packaged range extender. So many more people would be driving electric by now with no range anxiety or fear of huge repair bills.
Loading up millions of cars with huge under-utilised batteries makes zero environmental or economic sense.
@@the_lost_navigator7266 - So you have to add an additional battery module weighing how many kilos per KWH? It is quite surprising how much extra weight of battery you have to add to get any useful extra range. It’s just not simple. Batteries need cooling too, and so plugging in extra modules gets technically difficult. Add the usual human ability to get it wrong, get it wet, store it badly, drop it, damage it, and you add up to impracticality very quickly. It’s a real shame as a modular approach to EVs is appealing - if you could only drop in a freshly charged battery as easily as swooping out a power tool battery it would be great. Sadly car propulsion batteries are a bit too big, a bit too heavy and if it could be done I’m sure makers somewhere would do it already.
@@sullivanrachael the car would be an EV with a small 50 to 80 mile battery. The range extender is a small simple petrol engine, not additional batteries.
The elephant in the room is government policy. If the manufacturers are prevented from selling popular products due to legislation, road pricing, the effect of lower volume fuel sales on the petrochemical industry (fuel prices for older cars), changes in VED, etc., As well as the list price, you have depreciation, the luxury tax of £410 and EV VED at £190, making it a £600 yearly tax. Jaguar relaunch aimed at £95k+ demonstrates the challenge when they were one of the first to market with the ipace, to forgo mass market EV's in favour of better cash returns.
The cigarette industry is a good example today.
Four current problems for me: Cost of EVs, availability of charging points on the road, time to charge and current range
A simple but very true conclusion.
Great value second hand EVs nowadays. Sort the charging issue and it's a no-brainer with regards to cost.
@@MrAdopadothey doesn’t fix the range issue or cost of repairs
@JacksonFairweather Well ... We've got an older EV and a Ford Fiesta in the family ... I can tell you that it's the Fiesta that costs us way more to run and repair despite being used for 10% of the mileage of the EV! I can only speak of my own experience but EV range simply hasn't been an issue ... and unless you need to regularly drive 200 miles every day time of charging isn't an issue either. We have driven from Scotland to the south coast of England several times over the past few years and never even considered taking the ICE car ... and never had a problem. (Yes, we stopped more often but on a long journey that's turned out to be a welcome break!) Yes, there's no doubt that newer designed cars tend to have more expensive repairs (no matter whether EV or ICE).
Very enjoyable and insightful video. Consumers have choice and they are exercising it. As long as choice exist customers will exercise it. Value for money is key at any price point
I am considering a Suzuki as my next car as they are virtually unique in still offering a small, manual petrol SUV plus excellent reputation for reliability. However I am concerned they will do a Mitsubishi and pull out of the UK due to these EV rules.
The indications Suzuki have given, would appear to indicate they are looking to move their car range away from ICE to 100% EV in the not too distant future......
Suzuki is small cars and will stay like that as more than half of their sales comes from India, for sure an onhoing fast growing market!! Potentially the only Jpn manufacturer to survive this EV revolution.
Yes I believe Suzuki are going to go 100% ev
@@lumtavon1952 Also the Indian market is RHD, the same as the UK and Japan.
Love your content PED. Not sure when you took the stats on the Polestar share price though. You quote $0.68. At the time this video went live its more than double that at $1.49 (and grown by 90% in the last 3 months)
My bad 😥
Very interesting and insightful, Pete.
It is no coincidence that the EU now have ringed the alarmbel and want Europe to invest hundreds of billions, because of the dire economic situation. It would be hilarious if it wasn’t so tragic. The EU themselves have put us in this situation and only now they are waking up.
The leaders of European, Japanese and US car manufacturers are totally to blame. They were warned. They even went so far as to fire CEOs who tried to steer their companies to a safe shore.
@@bobwallace9753 They were warned! They were warned that unless they threw 100 years of development with ICE and started to produce vehicles that very few wanted, Govt mandates would ensure that these companies would be sent broke,. So they are damned if they do, damned if they don't.
@@allomony4010
Anyone who understands the laws of physics knew that EVs would eventually replace ICEVs. For multiple reasons. I really don't think the leaders of legacy auto are stupid and don't have a grasp of basic physics. I think they just wanted to make money short term and leave the long term problem to someone else.
Very few wanted, or very few could afford, expensive EVs like the early Tesla S and X. Great cars, but few budgets could stretch that far. Tesla followed with much less expensive models and their reachable market greatly expanded. The Tesla Y is the world's best selling car.
Think what will happen as really good EVs selling for $30k or less become widely available. Think about what will happen as good EVs selling for $20k or less become widely available. Companies that can't supply those markets will be in a world of hurt.
It's not about government subsidies and mandates, those were just pump primers like we see with many emerging technologies. It's now about economics, the amount of money out of your pocket every month for personal transportation. Essentially everyone will move to an EV because it will cost so very much less.
@@allomony4010Toyota refused to go along with it… they’re doing absolutely fine 🤷🏻♂️ record profits
Great video makes am think 🤔 I have a lovely A4 black edition sline automatic 2.0 tdi .. what to get next or just keep my car …?
When vehicle manufacturers rely on EU and US protectionism to defend their company, you know they are in trouble.
Perhaps true ... but the notion that we ever had a free market is a total myth! Countries have always had regulations and tariffs that affect the access to their markets ... not just for cars either. Nissan (Datsun) only started making cars in the UK because of financial incentives and issues with quotas.
A brilliant video Ped! The trouble for many of these brands is that they are part of a larger group which use the same platform to build their branded car on which then competes with cars in the same group and other group manufacturers. In VWs case they have Skoda and Seat which compete with the parent companies cars. It’s about time that the governments woke up to the fact that driving manufacturers down this route with stupid legislation is going to kill an industry and ultimately their economies off. Add in the local money grabbing schemes of local councils that want to stop cars completely then it’s a very worrying outlook for the motor industry. Bristol City Council are even planning to charge businesses £20 for every car parking space they provide for their employees!
People will not buy EV's just because the government have basically stopped manufacturers from making petrol or diesel car's they will just go & buy secondhand petrol or diesel car's? And probably half the country would have charging issues ie live in high rise building's or row's & row's of terraced houses let alone the cost of buying these EV'S & everything else that goes with the concerns of owning a EV!! 🙄 Another informative video pete nice one!!👌🏻👍🏻
Well said at the end and truly matched the Toyota boss words back 4 years ago
I wouldn’t trust Ed Milliband to make a paper plane, let alone control the Government and EU strategy about what vehicles we are allowed to buy. He is a geology and engineering doofus.
Why would Ed Milliband have any influence over the EU strategy?
@@timrothwell33 He is in charge of whether the UK adopts or is independent of EU net zero law and strategy. Plus he’s been networking all this for decades. I know him and his acolytes from Camden from way back.
Interesting video and you raise some valid points/arguments. Isn't one of the problems that cars are much more reliable and too expensive now compared to 5/10/15 years ago that the manufacturers can't shift them. It seems the only new sales are company cars and the 'general' public seem to be buying the ex fleet and relying on the second hand car market. Year to date new cars sales down 11% for personal buyer, up 19% for fleet buyers. For the personal buyer EV'S are just too expensive, as are ICE cars too. I'm an ADI and my last 2 EV'S for teaching in have been ex-demo or 12 month old cars, saving me around 30% on each car on list price.
Thanks Peter. I think you have an educated auto culture, a great analysis capacity and last but not least, you are well informed.
Thanks Alejandro. That means a lot coming from you 🙏🏻 I trust you are well 👍
I’m currently looking at changing my car it’s a Volvo XC60 diesel on a lease. The XC60 has been brilliant returning an average of just under 40mpg. We don’t need a big car now and I’ve been looking at EVs but I’m still not 100% convinced and with all the hype in the media it’s making it hard to commit. Great video as always
The number of comments and the tone of them already shows the truth of this. The Car companies have been hoisted onto spikes by Governments making up authoritarian targets in a market economy. They have then accelerated the slide down onto the spike by their greed in targeting high value customers and fleets but ignoring the majority of their customers. The answer to China is to invite them to manufacture in the target market to avoid tariffs. I think this calls for a follow up as there is so much more to discuss about this including a discussion about why private motoring is the main target for net zero, noting that the losers are ordinary people and not the industrial elite 🤔
That won't work. The Chinese are cheap because of their slave work force. Manufacturing elsewhere, they would be deprived of this.
I love how you have change your opinions on EV cars over the last 2 years. You posted a video on the cupra born EV and i commented on that video about the infrastructure etc. You was quick to put my comments down......how things have changed.
Totally agree with electric Fiesta. I was shocked that they stopped production of the Fiesta and didn't have an electric Fiesta replacement. Was waiting for that logical replacement pipeline to be announced, but it was a stupid decision. Until we all go full EV, Fiesta's in the second hand market (even before they stopped production) were the No 1 selling car. To stop making them and also to not have a replacement EV Fiesta is ridiculous.
VERY interesting vlog Pete. Thank you.
The vast majority of buyers cannot afford a new car and never will. I certainly can't, as I'm at the bottom of the price range to be honest.
EVs are out of the question for so many of us simply due to absolutely no chance to charge at home. And a lot of that is due to the way we live and the way houses have been designed for the last 100 years!
Any EV hybrids will be banned from new sales in 2035? 🙄 Well I don't believe any functional "national" EV charging infrastructure will be possibly in just a decade. All these "apparent" mandates are ridiculous!
Not ridiculous if you wish your grandchildren to inherit a world fit to live in. Think about that.
The point of argument around EV's not being fit for purpose if you can't charge from home is flawed. In most cases, even if you have an EV home energy tariff, by the time you look at the cost of buying and installing your home charger plus your electricity cost, for a large proportion of drivers who do less than 6,000 miles a year and keep their cars for 2-3 years it is as cost effective to public charge at the same charging speed (7-11kWh). There is of course a price of convenience in paying more for rapid chargers. I'm fortunate that my EV is a company car for my company and it affords me to charge on a 350kWh public charger (which is not out of my normal weekly commute) for the same price as I could charge at home on a 7kWh charger. And overall it still costs about between 40-70% less to charge it than filling up the equivalent petrol car it replaced. That's specific to me and isn't universal but people really should do the research than just rely on conjecture.
@rogerphelps9939 please do not go down ev,s saving the planet nonsense that is just utter rubbish
Posting this here for balance, (although some sense is being talked) as a BEV owner since 2016, I’ve discovered what a massively better experience owning and running one is than the many ICE cars I’ve owned previously, dating back to 1981. The caveat is if you cannot charge at home (super cheaply) it’s not as amazingly cheap or convenient, though still no more costly than ICE. But it still means that for 60% of the UK population BEVs are an absolute no brainer! And all the surveys with actual BEV owners show that over 90% would never go back to ICE. The way media misinformation and negativity has taken hold and put people off EVs is very sad for the struggling car industry and for our ailing planet.👎🏼
Thought provoking video Pete. Many thanks. JLR concerns me too
Not just the manufacturers going bust but all the people losing there jobs. Painful just painful
@@jamesfoote8916 unions strangely silent too.
It is fast ponds and slow fivers and tiff love. I clearly recall seeing the ID3 cars being marketed at £30,000 UK on the road price to match the Golf market.
Then placed a retail price the up front running costs for 7 years ( Based upon £2000 charging costs over yearly). Why would you pay twice for running costs? ( I will stick with my £2,000 of diesel)
The final item is what happened the UK compared to the likes of Norway to support the swap over? Decent scrappage schemes, very decent purchase grants.
All manufacturers face the same problems; poor charging infrastructure, expensive and unsuitable models for the mass market, insurance costs and the lack of being able to charge at home.
Exactly...no one either seems to be putting pressure on the exorbitant costs of charging away from home ? Actually more expensive than running an ice.
One other aspect is that charging is not that expensive, but many cars are terribly ineficient. Apart from Tesla, Porsche and maybe KIA/Hyundai the rest of the cars are the equivalent of driving a 20 year old gas guzzling car, practically half of advertised range in real life when you hit the highway.
@@filippxx Except they aren't terribly inefficient, most doing the equivalent of 140+ MPG. What they have is very small fuel tanks compared with ICE cars. If you want to know the rough range of an EV multiply the battery kwh by 4 and you won't be far away.
@@andrew9466Tesla is squeezing the others hard. Do a bit of research please.
@@filippxxThe Kia EV3 does not offer the most energy efficient wheels on its top line cars because “they don’t look that cool” 🤬
Another great video I’m slowly working through them👍
Ford have taken a winning formula that has stood the test of time, you take a good car most of the time then give it the Xr/St/Rs treatment. Even the bad ones like the escort turned into an Rs with huge wing was a great formula and they were big volume cars for the common man. First the Mondeo then the Fiesta and soon the Focus they frankly deserve what’s coming. I’ve had a few down the years and loved them but the Mach E and that hideous Capri which let’s face it isn’t a capri means I doubt they have long left.
In fact, if we take a 5 to 7 years horizon, I would be surprised if there wouldn't be NOT ONE but THREE big legacy car brands going into financial/business failure or bailout situation. They are simply not switching gear (pun unintended) to the EV paradigm fast enough to overcome successive quarters of financial losses.
Within the next seven years I can see more than three legacy companies going bankrupt. Some will likely be 'rebirthed' by their national governments as happened with GM and Chrysler a few years back. But unless they manage to dump all their debt and start over as dedicated EV companies I suspect they will 'enjoy' a second and final failure.
Straight forward supply and demand. Demand is slow due to economics and infrastructure. Supply is costly with set up costs so prices are high. A perfect storm.
Where was the outrage when BL finally collapsed, the Rootes Group also. These were major employers in the Midlands, not just the cars but all of the industries that supported them. The thing is, companies die, new ones are born and OK there is a social element to this, mainly those who work on the shop floor, we can't afford to see the deprivation associated when the mines and steel works of the UK collapsed without any support from the Government. The major motor manufacturers have been dragging their feet for years over the future of private transport. I can remember back in 2019 Rugby World Cup, all the adverts on TV were for ICE vehicles despite the fact that Governmental plans for banning those sales had already been announced. Even now, the prevalence is for hybrids of some description. Governments also need to be honest about the role of private transport in society. Roads are pretty much saturated, most cities and towns have a Victorian road system designed for horses and carts and new roads, urban or extra urban, have been shown not to be long term solutions, just short term palliatives, so public and active transport and designs to make 15 minute cities a reality is probably important. Energy suppliers (BP/Shell etc) need to be honest about the future too. They should be trying to effectively corner the market for charging stations and even hydrogen, although I think in reality the latter is a busted flush. Governments also need to intervene with respect to charging facilities and inducements to entice us to switch to alternatives to ICE. Better public transport, both buses and trains need to be provided. The inability to not look beyond private transport as our way of getting around will ultimately hamstring us. So yes, get myopic about the loss of a Golf, Fiesta or any other such car, change will not come quick enough and that is a major cause for concern.
I can follow and agree with much that you have written, but disagree with your view on 15 minute Cities.All of the studies that I have read about them have been very negative , particularly from the populace within the areas used during trials.It seems to generate a lot of questions on the subject of quality of life as well as the many impracticalities.
2:09 problems going on at min with Fords Daventry parts distribution Centre . On the 8th of August they were forced to close it due to asbestos contamination!
Things are starting to improve but it’s put them back approx 15 years where parts supply is concerned!
Forcing manufacturers to do what the customers don't want.
Who would of thought that would lead to trouble, for those a penny short, I'm being sarcastic.
No different than the smartphones so many told me years ago when cellphones were coming out that they would not own one now the majority of the people do.
@@rickhammond2473Well said. A good example of something that plenty of people said you didn’t need and was of no use.
People want affordable, good quality, decent range EVs. No one has forced manufacturers to produce the EVs people want. Chinese companies and Tesla are doing it on their own and now are taking over 20% of the global market.
@@bobwallace9753🤣🤣🐑🐑
More fool the affected manufacturers. Hopeless management.
I've looked at EV's for the last couple of years that are advertised for sale, as far too expensive new, and test driven the Zoe and MG ZS. Yesterday on a search in auto trader for the MG MG4 trophy, for which I've looked at over 12 months, and the price new has dropped a third when I searched for new as well as second hand - the second hand ones coming in more expensive. Is this because the tax is down or that the Chinese are worried about their market share?
The world has been taken for a ride with regards to EV vehicles being the sole answer to our problem, thanks to people like Elon Musk! Why is it that governments do not listen/consult with the REAL experts on such matters. Yes, EVs are certainly part of the answer, but not the whole answer to the problem. Hydrogen fueled engines and e-fuels are certainly a serious alternative. Even Musk is currently developing hydrogen powered engines! Ford of America is shutting down its EV plant because of the staggering losses made on each EV ($40,000). And VW is shutting down two major plants in Germany with the loss of 30,000 people to try and curb their losses. Unless governments do an immediate U turn / delay things until it has been properly assessed so that the right decisions can be made, the automotive industry will implode worldwide!
Peter, great video. Putting aside the whole polarised narrative of EV v ICE for a moment and environmental discussion. What I am not hearing much about is the impact that the issue you raised is having on people who currently have jobs in the industry. If we continue to see the downturn in profits and share prices plus the prospect of losing a big manufacturer (and I believe it will be more than one), what about the livelihoods of the employees? This extends beyond the manufacturers to the industries that provide components etc. Thoughts?
Polestar thinks it's premium and have priced their cars at Audi pricing... But it's not... The synthetic cloth seats are a joke.. Consumers are not buying... They just changed their CEO...
glorified milk floats that’s all they are
Great review of what is happening out there in the motor industry.
With the government saying that 2030 is the cut off for ICE's, they haven't looked at people who live in areas that having an EV is not viable.
I live in a tree lined area where our house is 150ft + from the road, there is no way that I can charge at home or in the local area.
Can UK consumers start to see big discounts on new EVs given the resale value after a few years of ownership is poor. The car manufacturers need to adjust their prices for a start. Why is an EV more expensive than an ICE equivalent? The early adopters bought EV cars due to being able to offset the corporate tax. Why are governments pushing for this technology when biofuels and synthetic fuels look like they have more potential for long-range use. No one seems to talk about the harm to the environment and communities in mining for lithium for batteries and what happens to the disposal of these materials.
Good observations, Pete!
For us in the industry (I'm working for a Ford distiburtorship), these last few years have been really difficult with the EV craze and glooming prospects.
My fear is that Ford has lost its way and has plunged into a vortex from which it will not be able to pull out.
I can't understand all of this EV hype. It's all about development and future, but we're clearly not ready for it.
A lot of things have to line up in order for EVs to become our daily drivers, and I'm not seeing these things lining up any time soon.
And you're absolutely right: there needs to be a sustainable middle ground in order for the industry to survive.
I heard that Toyota is ending EV and go for hybrids.
Bye bye Toyota.
@@richardcorns8553they have seen the light, pure EVs arrived too soon. The pace of transition is the issue. Hybrids make the most sense globally.
@@LonelyTreeSunset - degree of transition varies round the world, North America in particular is behind the Battery EV adoption/infrastructure roll out curve, other parts of the world are much more developed (including the UK). Hybrids therefore make sense in specific markets not all markets. Vehicle manufacturers will target each market differently, which in part why Volvo has reatined 10% hybrid production for laggard markets. Those markets further along will see majority EV adoption much earlier, and some already have.
Here in South Africa in just a few short years from seen almost no Chinese vehicles on the road they seem to be taking over with five or six examples at every robot. Most of those been ICE vehicles with a few hybrid. Love the looks of the Tiggo4 Pro. I think it's great. Similar spect Volkswagon would cost double.
The core issue at hand is that this is what you get when governmental dirigisme favouring hideous "there s only one best way" approaches become a reality instead of looking at the problem and leaving its solution to the creativity and competition within the market. Let alone that what they sell as their "one best way" is extremely unlikely to even solve the issue at hand. This doesn t only hamper finding a mix of solutions that then end up addressing the problem but only helps those already being on a very one sided track- whilst other that could have helped to solve the problem are driven out of the market entirely.
Well farmers wanted to stick with horses and carts, government stepped in and subsidized tractors to increase production. I'd call that a win-win
You have misunderstood what the core issue it. What you call 'dirigisme' (I live in France btw so I know what it is) is not governments interfering in the car industry, the energy industry or whatever industry...it is governments, through regulators setting standards for the quality of the air we breathe. The natural environment is a commons we all have to share and ICE vehicles have been polluting the commons for over a century. Now we have a technology where we don't need to do that any more to get around the place. In the future people will think how disgusting it was for an individual to spew his waste material out of an exhaust as he drives along, in the same way that we look back today at how people used to 'slop out' their human waste into the street before governments decreed that sewers must be built. You obviously feel some kind of persecution complex that 'the government' is trying to 'force' you to drive a different type of car than you do today. Well, the picture is a much bigger one than you and your car.
Safe and effective governance
@@kiae-nirodiariesencore4270
I agree with your sentiments,
However the government is trying to force EV uptake via legislation/regulation BEFORE the technology is viable from a commercial standpoint.
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Yes EVs work and can get good milage, but they are not on par with ICE cars on price and or range..
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I agree we must have cleaner transport.
The best way forward would be to wait for better battery technology say 10 years, or place some very heavy subsidies on EVs NOW to make them cost neutral compared with ICE cars..
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The best way going forward would be to allow technology to catch up, is for a push to hybrid FIRST. This would allow people to adjust to the _transition_ to electric..
@@stuartd9741 You have an incorrect interpretation of what the government is trying to do via legislation. Your OPINION is that EV technology is not ready for the mainstream yet. My EXPERIENCE over more than 5 years and 65,000 miles is that EVs are SUPERIOR to ICE in every way (driving, owning, convenience and running costs). In a battle between my EXPERIENCE and your OPINION, I win every time.😆