new models and consistent scale has me most excited. I've been watching through your series and Epic Armageddon looks like a really fun game, with a well supported ruleset and community lists, being able to play that with modern minis is an exciting prospect to me and my friends
The orders system sounds like a direct copy of the system used in 2nd edition epic (though I haven't been able to find my old rulebook to check). My memory is that it was a lot of fun, and I think the element of second-guessing your opponent, etc, is a good one.
Agreed, simultaneous order are fun from other games I’ve played with them in it. It’s nice for GW to be trying some of these different styles of turn structure.
I played Epic back in the day - original Titanicus, Space Marine 1 and 2 and still play the best version of epic so far: Epic Armageddon. (I skipped Epic 3rd). I also play and love the current Titanicus. I'm stoked for LI - one of the things I always hated about epic was that the infantry were 6mm and the titans and most vehicles were 3mm (done for cost reasons). In LI everything is 8mm and it looks amazing. If the rules are sh*t we'll just use the new minis to play Armageddon Horus Heresy :D
I’ll be sticking with Epic Armageddon personally - it’s a great game and still has an active scene in the UK with 10 or so tournaments each year. We’ll add Epic Armageddon lists for 30k marines, Solar Auxilia, etc to use the new models for the current game too. Legion Commander is based heavily on 2nd edition epic from what we know and 2nd was okayish when I played it as a teenager decades ago but it’s way worse a game than Armageddon. Vastly more armies available to use in Armageddon than LC too. Plenty of us in the UK use the plastic 8mm Titanicus titans and knights for Epic Armageddon currently - they’re a bit bigger scaled but still fine to use.
I have agree with you that Armageddon has too much going for it to switch. It’ll be great to see lists matching all the new stuff and I’m personally happy to play with and against anything in 8mm. That’s said, my old epic 40K warlord looks so bizarre next to a new warlord.
I’ve had every Epic scale set from the original Adeptus Titanicus to the current AT game and everything in between. I think Epic 40,000 was the best rule set and presentation. I especially liked the 3d hit markers. From what I’ve seen thus far, Legions Imperialis will borrow heavily from Space Marine in terms of rules. It’s a shame it will be Horus Heresy only - but so we’re the early versions of the game. I’m sure the community will pick up the slack.
1st Editions of Adeptus Titanicus and Space Marine were both set in the Horus Heresy. GW developed the HH background specifically for those two games many years before Forgeworld started doing 28mm models/rules for it. At the time, the games had Eldar, Orks, Squats and Daemony-Chaos as well. Excluding these elements from HH is a retcon - I think invented because FW didn't want to make models/rules for those races. I'm happy to get the rulebook and give it a go, but I still have piles of original epic models and now a 3D printer to produce whatever is needed at 6mm scale, so won't be investing in a whole new range of models. That said, given a choice I would probably want to continue with Epic Armageddon if I have the opportunity to play either game.
Sounds very similar to me, invested in the 6mm system. Happy to give a go to but am sure my love for Epic Armageddon will still win out quiet easily. Great to hear you have the 3D printer going
Eldar, Orks, etc, were only added to the 1st edition a bit later. They weren't part of the original release. It's not a retcon to exclude them, but it is disappointing for potential players. Reduced cost for GW, reduced value for players - a bit of a lose-lose situation.
LI game has seemed to have ripped an awful lot out of first epic (space marine) with similar orders and CAF for melee combat. You have to declare orders for everything at the start of the turn so this game won't have the tactical flexibility of Epic Armageddon where you can pivot your force to react say to a thunderhawk assualt or teleport attack. Rules look pretty dumbed down. Also saw scale comparisons with predators and there is no way both scales can exist in the same force, the only things that might be compatible are the titans and air units. I think GW dropped the ball here as many enduring epic players would have at least bought into the game for some miniatures. Most epic players I know have adopted the attitude of "thanks but no thanks". I played Space Marine/Titan legions in its day (when it was in the triumvirate with Warhammer Fantasy and 40k) and enjoyed it but it is inferior in pretty much every way to Epic Armageddon. Keep up the good work with your videos.
Thanks for the feedback and yes the scale change is annoying. I don’t think anyone could say there isn’t the underlying purpose of trying to make people rebuy everything. However, 3D printers will mean a lot of people won’t…… be interested to see how many accessories they want you to buy to play the game other than just miniatures.
Great video. I’ll be continuing to play EpicA, AND I’ll probably get into LI. I think its a different game and a different system and GW issues aside its going to be interesting to see how it pans out. I was all set to be a naysayer given the scale change (which really irked me), but I think there will be some stuff that will migrate between the two systems well and I just want to have fun and get excited about a new small scale game (I’ve been a small scale wargamer since the 80s). So I’m pretty hyped, can’t wait to get my mitts on it, am dreading the cost (doing everything on my honey-do list to build credit!) and will continue to love and play EpicA
Nice Vid! I have only been lightly following along with the Legion Imperialis stuff... as soon as I found out that it was just HH based with no plans for Xenos I sort of lost interest... I think I was also very confused why they would be discontinuing the Aeronotica sized stuff that's in the same scale... I get it if many of those flyers didn't exist in HH, but seems like a very odd move. I did not play any Legion Titanicus (recently) but I feel like the prices of the titans in that game were off-putting... even though I heard good things about the game from those few who played. I am more interested in the game after your quick synopsis as the rules don't sound bad at all.. but my biggest real worry is the release schedule and breadth of where they take this... I just don't want to see SM Legions and Solar Auxilia vs the same but painted different for the first 2 years of the game... and yeah, GW seeming to drop the ball with HH releases is odd..
I am similar in that marine Vs marine just doesn’t hold me long enough to be invested. Scale change is annoying and agree that dropping other 8mm is weird - but a sign that Legions could just as easily be dropped in a couple of years. The rules seem more interesting than I had though though
Probably pick up some stuff then get 3d printing. When the nickle And diming begins ill be using the inevitable onepagerules version. Cant trust gw to do anything fairly and sensibly
logically it has to be September or October for it to come out, mainly as end of October we get the old world coming out and then November we ramp up for the end of the year box sets and i assume the tank and knights box sets will come out around xmas so they want the game out before then so folks can add to there wish list for the Santa goblin
I was initially very negative on this being without Xenos, and then when I saw the scale difference article the difference in scale was a lot larger than I had expected - which I guess is because the previous scale for Epic was not particularly consistent? A lot of the models look like they are a lot more than a third bigger. However, I think I'll pick up some of the models and see what they're like.
I’m in a similar mind that the scale will be interesting. Some models may be great to pick up for Epic regardless of playing Imperialis. Keen to see the infantry compared to 6mm in real life
i personally find the rules quite concerning, regular troops cosing 10/15 points a stand for space marines and individual combats, AP values on weapons all these thing seem really slow in a game of this scale. Love the models and the vibe but i dont think this game will do well competitively or as a casual game just because it seems a bit faffy from the previews. But we shall see.
It seems to me that LI is just a version of epic GW can protect it's minis and paperwork on a legal basis without the fans being able to do what they have done with both epic and warm aster, those boats have sailed and there's nothing GW can do about it except try to release a new version where all the legal bulk head doors are closed for their benefit. Not saying it's a bad thing on GW part it just is what it is and hopefully allows both communities to carry on complementing each other.
I agree that hopefully they don’t come after the communities. Realistically they are releasing it to make some cash. Yes they will be very keen to apply their protection to it.
I would love to see you cover LI. I very much enjoy Epic Armagedon on Tabletop Simulator. But it’s really hard to get into physically without a 3d printer. And I am very exited for LI. It looks tons of fun and I see a lot of DNA from Epic Armagedon
Third party metal epic proxy model providers are good option too as well as 3d printing - Vanguard Miniatures is the biggest but also there’s Chaos Temple and Onslaught Miniatures.
Third party stuff can be great. Find a friend with a 3D printer. That’s what I did 😃 I’ll keep covering things as they come out and will see my interest as to how much is covered. The barrier to entry will be lower (pending prices) for new players which is good.
![PURPEECH - นี่ฉันเองคนที่... (It's me) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/NuhHd0hOOg8/mqdefault.jpg)
new models and consistent scale has me most excited. I've been watching through your series and Epic Armageddon looks like a really fun game, with a well supported ruleset and community lists, being able to play that with modern minis is an exciting prospect to me and my friends
Honestly I like idea of secret simultaneous orders but concerned about amount of special rules.
The orders system sounds like a direct copy of the system used in 2nd edition epic (though I haven't been able to find my old rulebook to check). My memory is that it was a lot of fun, and I think the element of second-guessing your opponent, etc, is a good one.
Agreed, simultaneous order are fun from other games I’ve played with them in it. It’s nice for GW to be trying some of these different styles of turn structure.
The secret simultaneous orders mean its going to be a pass for me. Epic Armegeddon was a great rule set they should have kept it.
Secret orders means lots of downtime at the begining of each turn, i think.
I played Epic back in the day - original Titanicus, Space Marine 1 and 2 and still play the best version of epic so far: Epic Armageddon. (I skipped Epic 3rd). I also play and love the current Titanicus.
I'm stoked for LI - one of the things I always hated about epic was that the infantry were 6mm and the titans and most vehicles were 3mm (done for cost reasons).
In LI everything is 8mm and it looks amazing. If the rules are sh*t we'll just use the new minis to play Armageddon Horus Heresy :D
I’ll be sticking with Epic Armageddon personally - it’s a great game and still has an active scene in the UK with 10 or so tournaments each year. We’ll add Epic Armageddon lists for 30k marines, Solar Auxilia, etc to use the new models for the current game too. Legion Commander is based heavily on 2nd edition epic from what we know and 2nd was okayish when I played it as a teenager decades ago but it’s way worse a game than Armageddon. Vastly more armies available to use in Armageddon than LC too. Plenty of us in the UK use the plastic 8mm Titanicus titans and knights for Epic Armageddon currently - they’re a bit bigger scaled but still fine to use.
I have agree with you that Armageddon has too much going for it to switch. It’ll be great to see lists matching all the new stuff and I’m personally happy to play with and against anything in 8mm.
That’s said, my old epic 40K warlord looks so bizarre next to a new warlord.
I’ve had every Epic scale set from the original Adeptus Titanicus to the current AT game and everything in between. I think Epic 40,000 was the best rule set and presentation. I especially liked the 3d hit markers. From what I’ve seen thus far, Legions Imperialis will borrow heavily from Space Marine in terms of rules. It’s a shame it will be Horus Heresy only - but so we’re the early versions of the game. I’m sure the community will pick up the slack.
NetEA all the way baby. Im upscaling my prints for NetEA because i like em a bit bigger, but zero interest in getting my pocket picked by GW.
1st Editions of Adeptus Titanicus and Space Marine were both set in the Horus Heresy. GW developed the HH background specifically for those two games many years before Forgeworld started doing 28mm models/rules for it.
At the time, the games had Eldar, Orks, Squats and Daemony-Chaos as well. Excluding these elements from HH is a retcon - I think invented because FW didn't want to make models/rules for those races.
I'm happy to get the rulebook and give it a go, but I still have piles of original epic models and now a 3D printer to produce whatever is needed at 6mm scale, so won't be investing in a whole new range of models. That said, given a choice I would probably want to continue with Epic Armageddon if I have the opportunity to play either game.
Sounds very similar to me, invested in the 6mm system. Happy to give a go to but am sure my love for Epic Armageddon will still win out quiet easily. Great to hear you have the 3D printer going
Eldar, Orks, etc, were only added to the 1st edition a bit later. They weren't part of the original release. It's not a retcon to exclude them, but it is disappointing for potential players. Reduced cost for GW, reduced value for players - a bit of a lose-lose situation.
LI game has seemed to have ripped an awful lot out of first epic (space marine) with similar orders and CAF for melee combat. You have to declare orders for everything at the start of the turn so this game won't have the tactical flexibility of Epic Armageddon where you can pivot your force to react say to a thunderhawk assualt or teleport attack. Rules look pretty dumbed down.
Also saw scale comparisons with predators and there is no way both scales can exist in the same force, the only things that might be compatible are the titans and air units. I think GW dropped the ball here as many enduring epic players would have at least bought into the game for some miniatures. Most epic players I know have adopted the attitude of "thanks but no thanks".
I played Space Marine/Titan legions in its day (when it was in the triumvirate with Warhammer Fantasy and 40k) and enjoyed it but it is inferior in pretty much every way to Epic Armageddon.
Keep up the good work with your videos.
Thanks for the feedback and yes the scale change is annoying. I don’t think anyone could say there isn’t the underlying purpose of trying to make people rebuy everything. However, 3D printers will mean a lot of people won’t…… be interested to see how many accessories they want you to buy to play the game other than just miniatures.
Great video. I’ll be continuing to play EpicA, AND I’ll probably get into LI. I think its a different game and a different system and GW issues aside its going to be interesting to see how it pans out. I was all set to be a naysayer given the scale change (which really irked me), but I think there will be some stuff that will migrate between the two systems well and I just want to have fun and get excited about a new small scale game (I’ve been a small scale wargamer since the 80s). So I’m pretty hyped, can’t wait to get my mitts on it, am dreading the cost (doing everything on my honey-do list to build credit!) and will continue to love and play EpicA
Nice Vid! I have only been lightly following along with the Legion Imperialis stuff... as soon as I found out that it was just HH based with no plans for Xenos I sort of lost interest... I think I was also very confused why they would be discontinuing the Aeronotica sized stuff that's in the same scale... I get it if many of those flyers didn't exist in HH, but seems like a very odd move.
I did not play any Legion Titanicus (recently) but I feel like the prices of the titans in that game were off-putting... even though I heard good things about the game from those few who played.
I am more interested in the game after your quick synopsis as the rules don't sound bad at all.. but my biggest real worry is the release schedule and breadth of where they take this... I just don't want to see SM Legions and Solar Auxilia vs the same but painted different for the first 2 years of the game... and yeah, GW seeming to drop the ball with HH releases is odd..
I am similar in that marine Vs marine just doesn’t hold me long enough to be invested. Scale change is annoying and agree that dropping other 8mm is weird - but a sign that Legions could just as easily be dropped in a couple of years. The rules seem more interesting than I had though though
Probably pick up some stuff then get 3d printing. When the nickle
And diming begins ill be using the inevitable onepagerules version. Cant trust gw to do anything fairly and sensibly
Try netEA. Theres a HH version too.
Wow so many uploads!
I know, big change. Could even be another one tomorrow if all goes well…..
logically it has to be September or October for it to come out, mainly as end of October we get the old world coming out and then November we ramp up for the end of the year box sets and i assume the tank and knights box sets will come out around xmas so they want the game out before then so folks can add to there wish list for the Santa goblin
Only just responding now to your message and I’m realising it’s getting later in the month of October. Very interested what happens
@@2manygames978 28th of October is my guess
I was initially very negative on this being without Xenos, and then when I saw the scale difference article the difference in scale was a lot larger than I had expected - which I guess is because the previous scale for Epic was not particularly consistent? A lot of the models look like they are a lot more than a third bigger.
However, I think I'll pick up some of the models and see what they're like.
I’m in a similar mind that the scale will be interesting. Some models may be great to pick up for Epic regardless of playing Imperialis. Keen to see the infantry compared to 6mm in real life
Oh man, really hard to hear this over the noise of my car on the road😅 any way you can crank your volume? Cause Im maxed out
I wish. I’m a total amateur my friend. My audio does suck so apologies. Maybe it’ll get better if I get some better gear…..🤷♂️
i personally find the rules quite concerning, regular troops cosing 10/15 points a stand for space marines and individual combats, AP values on weapons all these thing seem really slow in a game of this scale. Love the models and the vibe but i dont think this game will do well competitively or as a casual game just because it seems a bit faffy from the previews.
But we shall see.
You could be right on all fronts. There is potential to slow down depending on size of games and diversity in weapons/rules
It seems to me that LI is just a version of epic GW can protect it's minis and paperwork on a legal basis without the fans being able to do what they have done with both epic and warm aster, those boats have sailed and there's nothing GW can do about it except try to release a new version where all the legal bulk head doors are closed for their benefit. Not saying it's a bad thing on GW part it just is what it is and hopefully allows both communities to carry on complementing each other.
I agree that hopefully they don’t come after the communities. Realistically they are releasing it to make some cash. Yes they will be very keen to apply their protection to it.
I would love to see you cover LI. I very much enjoy Epic Armagedon on Tabletop Simulator. But it’s really hard to get into physically without a 3d printer.
And I am very exited for LI. It looks tons of fun and I see a lot of DNA from Epic Armagedon
Third party metal epic proxy model providers are good option too as well as 3d printing - Vanguard Miniatures is the biggest but also there’s Chaos Temple and Onslaught Miniatures.
Third party stuff can be great. Find a friend with a 3D printer. That’s what I did 😃 I’ll keep covering things as they come out and will see my interest as to how much is covered.
The barrier to entry will be lower (pending prices) for new players which is good.
I'm worried with the lack of blast markers
It feels weird without any
Nah.. Epic Armageddon is great.. Models are great.. Xenos etc.. I don´t feel much for that new stuff.. New scale too? nah..
Haha love it, EA for life 💪🏻
@@2manygames978 Yeah.. :)