Hello you beauties. Access all episodes 10 hours earlier than TH-cam by Subscribing on Spotify - spoti.fi/2LSimPn or Apple Podcasts - apple.co/2MNqIgw. Here’s the timestamps: 00:00 Intro 00:17 Stephen’s Motivations for Studying Population Collapse 05:04 Whatever Happened to the Population ‘Bomb?’ 11:06 The Deeply Concerning Birth Rate of Western Nations 19:18 Do Women Want to Have Children? 36:07 Do Men Want to Have Children? 44:08 Are Finances Getting in the Way? 56:06 Is it our Moral Imperative to Have Children? 1:02:02 Why Industrialisation Correlates with Declining Birth Rates 1:09:22 Impact of Declining Birth Rates on the Economy 1:17:00 How Nations Can Improve Birth Rates 1:23:19 Where to Find Stephen
Women also make smarter decisions later age when choosing a partner that knows how to raise a family. Specialy when their educated, with a financial stability. We also now live longer and have more time. Other variables like dating apps, social media, international dating are kind of solving some of the problem. 80% modern day people found their partner online.
@@michaelmonaghan6599 our Chris needs to settle down and then make babies. I believe that is the best way forward if you have listened to his previous podcasts 😁
There is forced birth in AMERICA. How are the numbers looking on that? It wasn't a coincidence SUPREME COURT, passed a ban on abortion. The US is already working for more Boots on the ground. Unfortunately they will not be with willing or able women or men, who can create lots of single mothers.
I have a friend that I’ve known since middle school. He had his kid at 22. At the time, we all thought he was crazy. We were the same age, and while we were busy partying, he was changing diapers. I certainly thought he was missing out. But fast forward. At 41, his kid is in college. He is healthy and full of energy. I told my friend, “You’re done.” What I meant was that the daily and weekly routines of school drop off, after school activities, were all behind him. That is the freedom that society never taught us, that if you could have kids sooner, you get more years with them, that more of that time is in your youth and better health. Whatever “freedom” you have in your early 20s as a single person pales in comparison to the kind of “freedom” you have when you’re in your mid-40s, when your kids are grown and you still have good health.
@@kc6810 it all depends on your way of thinking. If you believe children are a burden then obviously you would be "saddled" with taking care of your kids and grandkids. If you view children as creations you're proud of, something to mold and raise with your values and make them good people, good brothers, sisters, fathers, mothers, sons and daughters, then it's a gift to be able to spend time with your grandchildren doing stuff they like and teaching them things as well as learning from them. I'm not praising or condemning either lifestyle, I'm just trying to explain to you that there might be another side to the equation that could seem almost foolish in your eyes and a few others.
Just knowing someone you love is present really gives a morral boost even in the lowest point of your life. Sad that a lot of people do not consider this when they decide to not have a family because they feel a spouse and children are burdonsome (especially talking to the ladies here). Okay, some family members can be unsupportive, but if you are good you will at least have someone. So many old people just kill themselves or are abused because they have no one else to fight for or stand up for them. This is something people only realize when it is too late. Single old people will be abused by the system, sadly 😥. No matter how much money you saved up for retirement.
I first became a mother at 20, postponed education and career to my 30 when I really knew what I wanted to do and my kids were in school. I’ve never regretted it.
That's the ideal way to do it. And as a result of motherhood, you were probably far more mature by the time you reached 30 than a single, childless person would be at that age and, as such, better equiped to pursue your education and career with discipline and the drive of having something bigger than yourself to work for.
@@kc6810 my mum retrained as a teacher when I was in primary school. I remember her taking us with her to the University library on weekends, we'd be there all day. This was early 2000s though, so much cheaper back then
My wife had all three of her kids by the time she was 28. My daughter has three children by the time she is 29. You need lots of energy with little kids. Don’t wait for the right time. There is no right time. Life is happening now. Being a fit grandpa in his 50s is a true joy…
Going to college for a degree that’s pointless while continuing to live within a single parent home and dating countless others seems to be todays youth . You cant live at home and stay under your parent’s insurance until 25+ and expect life to be normal .
I had my youngest child at 25. As I see it you have the whole of your life to study, you only have about ten years to have healthy babies. I raised my daughters to understand this. And I agree, it's great to be a young grandparent.
When you can't afford a home and when 2 parents have to work at least 40 hours a week (often more) and when health care is so expensive why is it a mystery that responsible people think it's not responsible to have children.
exactly... here in my country, houses are so expensive that even with a good, slightly above average job by both partners, a house loan would be 30yrs💀 I'm not gonna pay off a loan until my retirement!!
Reasons I can think of which haven't been mentioned here: 1. Men are afraid because of the legal problems associated with being fathers. 2. People want to control their lives instead of having a belief system which involves selflessness and family values. 3. People are online rather than irl with each other. 4. Fertility in men is dropping fast. 5. Family trauma/disassociation 6. Uncertainty about the future/checking out/disassociation 7. Lack of "grown ups" among 20 somethings. 8. Very insufficient sex ed 9. College Ed valued over starting a family 10. Lack of traditional practices/events in communities, like dances, which set people up to want to engage and to be able to interact in a healthy mating game
I used to watch old shows with my mom and they were based in the 60 and back. Thry used to have "socials" and dances where people dressed their best and got together in a wholesome way and now we have nothing but clubs and bars. Now I might have gone to a social with my introverted self but you'll never see me in a bar or club.....and never on a dating app which means I don't meet anyone...except co-workers
Most prominent is rotten values. It used to be number kids that counted as status. Nowadays it is posts social media featuring exotic counties and looking rich.
For the first reason, I suggest people have marriage contracts overpowering no fault divorce, and placing the relationship out of family court and into contract law.
We talked about this in the 90's. I remember a teacher telling me that companies want to hire new grads not older people. I was laid off from ATCO Electric after 15 years of service. I tried to get my job back when rehiring started and was just past from one person to another until I stopped. All the new hires are in their 20's and new grads. Our society has made getting a good job and school a priority in our younger child bearing years. I think we found a flaw.
It should be 1) basic education, 2) family and if you can fit in some more education and work while the kids grow for the first ~7 years, 3) career. This idea that you spend your 20's grinding in college and starting the foundations of your career or you'll forever be a career reject is insane.
@@wombatillo It is the reality. I did a degree after I had children. Nobody wants to employ a 40 year old beginner. Employers want experience as well as training.
I'll be 35 this year, I'm childless, and going through what I assume will be a break up with a man I was hoping to make babies with. This podcast hit really close to home. Here's hoping I get another opportunity before it's too late
My wife is a nurse, and as part of her education, she became very much aware of the fertility window, and the increasing risks of motherhood at later ages. She was 23 when we married, and from the beginning, was insistent that we have children before she turned 30, which we did. Thank goodness I listened to her. We are now in our 50s, in great health, with much more time and money to travel the world and enjoy life than when we were in our childless early / mid-20s.
You’re almost a boomer you don’t understand the issues you’re children will face in this life and especially their children if they are even going to have them.
As a girl child of the 60’s I made a personal decision to not contribute to the population “problem” (by abstaining). It seemed innocuous enough, just not being one of the parents. I spent my life caring for my elders and serving severely disabled folk. Now at 64, I realize I listened to propaganda. I probably would be a better person if I’d experienced parenting, even though I’m really not psychologically suited to the task. Sorry, everyone.
Shes not saying that. Hers was a noble life of service, but because of the negative messaging she received when she was young she didn't want kids. She could have done all of those things and still had children.
Something to contemplate: The next couple generations of kids who it will fall on to support the aging population might feel highly resentful of the responsibility. They'll likely be supportive of their parents and grandparents, but that is it. But because the elderly will make up the majority voting bloc they will likely vote for politicians and policies that heavily favor them at the expense of the new generations. I can see a huge rift in society because of this.
I agree. All of these childless people are going to demand that other people's kids take care of them, in the form of oppressive taxation. The people complaining that it's too expensive to have kids now, haven't seen anything yet.
This was a great talk BUT you guys really dropped the ball in my opinion by not pointing out how social media has destroyed in-person interactions and how social media has diminished the social skills humans rely on to reproduce.
I don't think it's social media per se, but the decimation of third spaces like churches and bars and movie theaters. Now you might ask why those places where ppl hang out and meet new ppl. Today ppl meet online but as great as those places are, they are isolating. A girlfriend won't drop into your couch.
@@morganseppy5180 I can't agree more. I live in Australia and our average birthrate is 1.63 I think. I used to live in a regional city. Everything was so regulated. Activities that welcomed children were unwelcoming to adults. Whilst adult activities didn't allow children. Since moving, things have gone back to what it used to be. Pubs are back to providing toys and playgrounds so both parents and children are welcome. And we have community activities for things like New Year Eve. Face painting and petting zoos for little ones, carnival rides for older kids, and live music and beer and cider for parents and older teens. Something as simple as helping an eighty year old with her grocery bags, might mean an introduction to her twenty year old granddaughter. Who knows? The big thing I've found is that people are still having 2-6 kids. Completely different to cities.
I'm 43 and my partner is 33. We had our first child on December 22. I purposely waited as I wanted to be financially stable and able to be at home more once I had children. Now we've had one I wish I had had a child much earlier. Logically, waiting made sense and I am more stable than in my late 20s or early 30s but I now feel like I've missed out by holding off for so long and perhaps what's worst is that I'll be 53 when my daughter is 10, 63 when she is 20 and so on. I already feel myself slowing down and will only slow down more over the years... In simple terms, if I had had my Daughter 10 years earlier she will have gotten to be a part of my life and me hers for 10 more years than she will now. It's an opportunity cost I didn't consider and didn't appreciate. From an evolutionary perspective, we are biologically designed to have children earlier in our lives than I have. It's not just to do with things like menopause but also our hormones, brain chemistry and a million other things. This is also a social, and cultural issue. Less women have children and those that are, do so later than in the past. Talking about the reasons for that and whether it's a good or bad thing is a minefield but from a Male perspective, the fewer fathers we have the worse off the whole world is. Nothing will teach a young man about responsibility quicker or more effectively than having a child. It provides purpose and meaning to your life something which many men don't seem to have in today's society, leading to higher rates of depression in men, higher suicide rates and many other issues.
In the past, men were not regarded as full adults until they father a child. Look at the sort of people running the world today. Most of them are childless. Having kids often changes people's mindset for the better.
@@taras3702 I have to agree. I was 30 when we had my son. Looking back on my mentality, I was technically an adult, but I was not a man until a few years after my son was born.
@@mrfarenheit9159 me and my "Partner" are not married so the term "Wife" doesn't apply and "Girl Friend" also doesn't really fit the bill, having been with my other half for 6 years and having a child together it doesn't really convay the depth of our relationship. I'm completely open to some other term if you can think of one that fits the bill better?
This is a significant issue that governments just refuse to acknowledge and deal with. My late wife and I knew from wider reading that having children young is so sensible, when you are older after child-rearing, you are young enough to travel and enjoy life. We married at 20 and 21, had three children,before we were 30, but wanted five (health stopped this plan) and were then grandparents in our early 50’s. Sadly she died at 51, but now I have nine beautiful grandchildren, the eldest is 15 and I am not yet 65. God is good and we are designed to reproduce young. Modern culture deceives and deludes and is slowly killing itself. This chap describes the saddest people; those who delayed family too long due to the culture of the day.
@@zumurudlilit If the breakeven TFR is 2.1 then the breakeven grandchildren rate is 4.41. Reversing the math, having 1 to 2 grandchildren is equivalent to a TFR of 1 to 1.4, i.e. the levels which are doing it for Japan, S. Korea, Italy etc.
Lol, that’s called shooting yourself in the foot. Look at some of the heavily migrated European countries. Lots of them have been taken over by Islamics and the laws have changed to meet their needs. Eventually it’s no longer the original country, but the migrants. Lol
36:1336:34 When I worked in retail, I had many 15-16 year olds talk to me about how much they loved babies. 17-30, not a peep, in fact, hated babies. I call it "the flip", usually last year of high school, or entering University, she becomes completely mesmerised by global options for everything.
I wonder if the "hate" is a subconscious self deluding defensive barrier? It's either that or psychopathy to actually "hate" babies out right. It's worse than to "hate" defenseless pets and animals by an order of magnitude. Babies are the most defenseless of the defenseless. Something has to be really really wrong in the individual's psychology to actually hate such beings. Those who say it as a defensive subconscious line actually are the ones who feel the pain of not having one in a very deep way and would care the most to a baby- tears running down their necks- if they find themselves locked with one, abandoned.
@@danyyboyechildren are a tremendous sacrifice to raise healthy and properly and it certainly isn’t for everyone! I thought I wanted kids - then I babysat for a while and realized this is drudgery and insane
Previous Grad student with a baby here... you can't IMAGINE the shock and awe - and FEAR of undergraduate women looking at my baby in the car seat when I would have him on campus. It was like "Oh God - Not one of those!! Don't look at it! Don't let it get me! Who brought that onto campus??"
In a healthy society womem should be raised to have children right away out of their teens and normalize it. It when they want to the most. If it's normalized there is no guilt wracking about having kids early. Then by time they are 40 their kids are adults THEN women can start careers. It's the right way to do it. Our society inverts everything and makes everything destructive and unhealthy on purpose.
One of the reasons I left teaching at 30 was because the pay was so poor for the south of England that I could see how I could afford a wife and kids. Now have a job earning 5x more and married with 2 kids. Financial security is a massive issue.
I struggled really hard financially for most of my life. I was basically a failure despite enormous. Then later in life I inherited a large Fortune. Life improves so much when you are financially independent and people treat you so much better it both made me happy and sad
The worrying thing, is when we see that collapsing young population means there will be fewer and fewer working age adults able to support the system. This will make it even more difficult to support a family. More women will need to be working long hours just to build a life. If women are concerned with career before family now, that can only become a larger issue as people struggle more and more to make a living. I’m not suggesting women shouldn’t be free to make choices. I simply believe the future will make the choice to become a mother even more inaccessible to women. I’m a mother. I count myself blessed to have a husband and my children. I know many other women who want the same, but the most common thing I hear is that people just can’t afford to bring a child into their life. It’s very sad.
Someone needs to tell Africans, and middle easterners. This is only a problem in the west. But the same problem around the world is getting RICH and comfortable stops people from having kids. When you're poor kids are insurance, and when you're rich they are just a nuisance. People are selfish and it's extremely hard to admit. My lady and I make a combined 95k in the USA and we're about to have our 3rd kid. We just don't live the life of luxury.
@@EveIsJustMyBlogName I think that the opposite will be the case. Population increase makes urban land enormously expensive, so housing will be more expensive. Homes with yards have disappeared. And who wants to live with a baby and a toddler in a little flat 4 storeys up?
I was 38 years old when I had my first child. My husband was 40 years old and we have been talking about this between us wishing we would’ve met earlier and started this family project earlier. We both have professional careers, my husband is still doing his PhD. This podcast really put into words and data what I have been feeling about my own situation. I keep telling ALL young people I meet to start earlier. Looking back , I would’ve done things differently but hey… at least now I know I am not the only one thinking the education, the culture , the dating , the men and women relationship narratives need to shift for the next generation. I loved the podcast, thank you so so much for your work and I will be looking forward to help others avoid the challenges we’ve had to face having children later. 👍🏼👏❤️
I always wanted the family thing as a man, but chances are becoming less like now as I'm 43, and the state of modern dating/courting as well as my individual goals. To your point though I remember being late 20's talking with another co-worker who married his wife young and had 3 or four kids by the time he and his wife were 23 or so; good Catholic Mexicans. At the time he was mid 40's and was advocating the same thing. Have em young and be able to enjoy your middle years with freedom. His only regret at the time is that his two boys, mid 20's were both still at home and the Wife wouldn't let him kick the baby-birds from the nest.
@@derekhamel2991 hey , tell me about it. The dating scene can be brutal especially the online dating experience. All I can say is use online dating like a tool, put yourself at places with people who probably share one common interest. Take classes, be a bit bolder to approach anyone you feel good energy from. Don’t give up. I started the online dating in my 30s and I was a late bloomer, not the feminine sexy type and I didn’t care much of what people thought of me… but then I wanted family and a marriage based on love and for that I had to « optimize » my strategy. I lost ton lf weight to be more appealing to men (being a fat woman decreases your mating range!) I read Harville Hendrix books , found out how I was « f**up », dated around, recognize my patterns… try to improve them, met some men , all of them were really nice people. Even when things don’t work out, we always wished each other better luck. We are all in this game together trying to reach our goals so why not encourage ourselves and help one another. You should keep going, as a man you can have a kid at 60! Look at Clint Eastwood! Hehe There is a woman/man/it for everyone. It is never too late for love. I met my husband on Happn. He was the only one I talked to on my 1 week trial of the app. I’m sure you’re a great guy. Don’t give up. Look up to women in the streets and smile to them, open doors for them. Not all women think that is toxic masculinity . 😉
At 0:19:45 Chris & Stephen completely undermine the meaning of this data. This idiotic "you live your life they way you want to" libertinism is central to this problem. I have several kids. It's bloody hard. I don't get to write & make videos like I could were I childless. I can't help but notice the TH-camrs I like - Chris, Tim Pool, malace - are childless. Again, this ideology is CENTRAL to the problem. We do need social pressure to step up & stop being narcissistic Peter pans. "this desire is innate" - what nonsense. How can you empirically investigate if a woman who says at 25 she doesn't want kids, wait till she's 50 & compare with the parallel universe where she did have kids?? You're just reinforcing the message that it's OK to avoid the responsibilities of being part of a multigenerational game where we all need to work hard.
As someone who never had a family or really any exposure to even a functional relationship throughout my childhood, I think this really set me up for failure. I wanted to be an engineer since before I even knew such a thing existed. The only thing I wanted more than that was to have a family one that. These were the two dreams I had in life. So, in spite of my extremely disadvantaged childhood, I found my way into college and put in the work. I made the Dean's List most semesters, tutored math up through multivariable calculus, had a technical paper published, tested for Mensa out of curiosity and qualified, and graduated with honors along with receiving a bachelor's in mechanical engineering. I thought I had a job lined up at Honda after graduation, but it fell through, and I went on to apply for hundreds of engineering jobs with no success. Eventually, I had no choice but to accept reality. Once I realized that neither of my goals would ever be accomplished in the slightest, I no longer had any motivation to succeed or do anything at all really. My life continues, but entirely without hope, so I'm really just existing until the end.
I got an engineering degree at age 30 thinking it would always be a guarantee of a good job. Found out it doesn’t work that way. After twelve years I left the field. Self employed now for 24 years. Also, unless you are highly skilled, once you get out you are not likely to get back in. I told my wife twenty years ago I’m just waiting to die. But I paid off the house and live debt free since 2012. It’s better now.
I dropped out of my masters program at age 23 when my husband and I had our first child. It was important to me that I be the one at home raising my children. 14 years later, I am still a stay at home mom to our 3 children. My husband has moved mountains to make sure he has been able to work and earn enough to support me and our children on his income alone. If our species wants to survive into the future we will need to put the priority back on the family and less on career success and “lifestyle freedom”.
That starts by telling 20 year old men to grow up and stop extending adolescence until 30 and then postponing family until they can afford it. Women are career focused because they know they have to support themselves and a family while their male counterparts are seeing how many notches they can cut into the bedpost.
@@Jirizo1 Yes Sir. Women are free to do what they choose. But when the mother is focused on her career and freedom, someone else is taking care of and raising her children. Usually the government run public school system and daycare providers. Since the big feminism push in the 60s and 70s, the family unit and especially children in our society have paid a great price for making women believe that taking care of your children and home is not worth their time and a useless job because it doesn’t make money. I believe family and children should come first for the mother. If we still have time and energy left after these things, then sure, pursue a career or other personal freedoms.
@@kimberlyjean2248 I'm 84 so I've seen this from the start ... The two greatest contributing factors were: 1.) the "Pill" which led to 2.) pie-in-the-sky women's lib. The answer is ... teen years end at 19 and work begins at becoming a responsible adult.
The only reason the UK’s birth rate isn’t as low as the rest of Europe is probably due to the masses of foreigners that entered the country over the last few years, who then went on to give birth here. The most popular baby names give a clue as to the demographic change.
According to the Office of National Statistics "Muhammad was the most popular boys' name in four out of nine English regions". Muslim women produce a lot of babies.
@@BiblicalBasics no, almost every first son is given this name. So it is misleading. The group that have the most children are Polish women, from what i heard.
@@BiblicalBasics Indeed, men know their rights as fathers, providers, protectors and women knows her position. Hence why you find peace and harmony in majority Muslim families.
@@thebeast09876 65% of muslims marry their first cousins. In England this equates to 1/3 pakistanis bearing children with genetic disabilities. The religion has some benefits but massive drawbacks.
@@maniswil2 65% impossible, but I do agree there are a % who marry their first cousins and have these problems mainly in boys. Ultimately Islam keeps families and communities together in peace and harmony, you will see the spirit of brotherhood when breaking fast together.
It’s been a fair amount of time since I’ve spent so much time shouting “exactly” & “I’ve been saying this for years” at an interview/discussion/podcast. Thank you & brilliant job! Nice one.
The issue is, we've created a society that's not necessarily children friendly. The way we live and the way things are doesn't encourage ppl to want to have kids. There are so many issues that need to be tackled before people will again feel like having kids is worth it. It's complex. People's values have also changed overtime..due to many reasons. It's not going to be easy to shift this..just like it took years for this to come about, it will take years for things to shift again but not unless something radical happens within the society we have created.
Exactly ! sometimes Not having kids can be a great act of love for unborn children. It’s not enough telling people how having children is usually part of our dreams, or how we might change of mind later in life etc., if you get reality check you realize that having children without money, education, family support etc., it’s the prefect recipe for unhappy children and frustrated adults. At then end, those kids would be our kids, and who wants to see their kids to suffer in this horrible world? As conscious human beings I think many young people have came to the realizations that if you are going to contribute to bring more human to be eaten by the system, you rather don’t have them.
I adopted my first at 32, had biological twins at 36, and one more at 44. Praise God! I definitely tell my children to have theirs early! It was an uphill battle for me.
I had - due to health reasons - my first child at 42 and twins with 45. I wouldn't have done so by choice, but I see many advantages as well. I know much more and I need less in this period of my life. I would have been a worse mother earlier.
I am a 38 year old American male with four children. My wife wanted five. We are planning on eventually taking care of her mother who is just turning 60. We will never have a empty home. You sacrifice for those you love.
Tragic. My sons are 20 and 24 and i am looking forward to empty house. Btw my ex-husband's grandma lived alone till her death at 97 and firmly refused to live with her daughter or son. It was her space and she intended on keeping it this way. Even when she broke her leg and died soon - she didn't allowed her daughter to stay overnight. She was allowed to come in in the morning, prepare breakfast, then a nurse in midday and her son in the evening.
This episode put a tear in my eyes, next year my wife and I are planning to have our first child and you just remove all hesitation from me. Thank you ❤
it si the best thing on the world, it is incredibly hard, but it is worth it. when i was younger i was saying i don't want children because i was traveling the world, having fun, now i have 2 kids and i want two more. my wife is 30 and i hope we can get at least one more. it just makes you a real men, and a grownup
As someone living in Germany and working in the medical field I can only confirm that the whole "old peoples' homes" branch is a rising financial milk cow, while the care truly provided is suboptimal
Talking about Germany, the doctors are so dismissive. It is like they need your money but dont want to see you in their office and the world thinks Europe and America have the best medical care.Example, my son had intestinal bleeding and the doctor just wrote for a cream and no further investigations. never took history,no general examination of the child. when we asked questions, they acted as if we were questioning their intelligence and looked agitated and act busy. THAT IS TOTAL NEGLIGENCE RIGHT THERE
That's why I would rather be the old man in a cabin untill I die then think of having a younger generation take care of me. Most can't take care of themselves. Many are still living at there parents home.
A WHO report says: Rates of a6use of older people are high in institutions such as nursing homes and long-term care facilities, with _2 in 3 staff reporting that they have committed abuse in the past year._ Imagine that. You'll get medicated and handled roughly, or even abandoned.
I laughed (bleakly) at how "this is the best time in history to live on Earth!" turned so swiftly into "of all the nightmares we could live in, this is the most luxurious"!
my life was fabulous up through age 65 years …… i have the best partner i could dream of …….. from year 49 and beyond i have been useless except for party-time ……. ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤ Let’s all go to Sugar rock Candy Mountain
It really feel like the end of the world roof top party right now. Nothing makes sense, economy, government, foreign policy, national debt, feminism, LGBTUKHFBUFVEQ, Wokism.... On the other hand market meltup, hosuing FOMO, packed mall and bars. However this ends, it wouldn't be pretty, but at least right now the drinks are still flowing
So you prefer living in the 1940s? Or maybe earlier where the mortality rate everywhere around the world was like the Congo or worse? It is still the best time to be alive for 99.7% of people on earth. It is easy to make the mistake of assuming doom and gloom from these podcasts. They’re important but putting too much weight on them is insane.
@@LogicSpeaks The 1940s were the most catastrophic decade in human history, so not a good comparator. In general, though, anything before the internet would be an improvement; anything before the nuclear bomb has an obvious advantage; anything before 1914, when the intellectual and artistic culture of my civilization was still at its peak, would be excellent, and anything before the despoilation of the land and systematic degradation of the poor by industrialization would probably be best. I know war, disease and poverty were great evils then, as now, and if magically transported back in time I would not cope; but if I were born into it I would have the same chance as anyone. Besides, the Victorians could claim with just as much justice as we can to have mitigated those problems - as could the Georgians and the Stuarts, for that matter. They were making progress almost throughout. The twentieth century, on the other hand, was a devastating backwards step for humanity. Renaissance intellectuals were constantly going on about how the times they lived in were the best ever; if you don't find them wholly convincing, I don't have to find you wholly convincing! Mortality is an especially bad metric because most of that is infant mortality - sad, but well within the normal range of human experience.
I’m 39 and have been with my husband for twelve years. We both have good jobs but have chosen not to have children. The main reason I would attribute it to is that we couldn’t buy our first home until we were in our mid thirties, and although I thought I would have a family I didn’t envisage having one in a rented apartment. Now, we’re happy just as we are and are planning financially for the probability that we will never receive a state pension or social care.
Have a little faith act on it you wimp have 2 kids back to back little scarred sky is falling not women enough to have kids , I had 2 nothing to it best decision ever EVER
I feel like I’ve completely lucked into having had a wife and three kids. We had our first child at 25/23 through sheer recklessness. Just a feeling of ‘It’d be cool to have a baby’ and , man, did we suffer for that economically! There’s then a 10 year gap as we recovered financially and then another 6 from there. But at 46, I feel like one of the luckiest guys I know. There’s never going to be a ‘right’ time - just do it!!
@@shanepatrick641 You don’t need lots of money to get a girlfriend - that’s a myth promulgated by ‘influencers’ trying to con you. Shave, keep your hair tidy, wear clean, ironed clothes that fit you properly, be friendly and polite. Learn how to pay a compliment without coming across as creepy - don’t say “you’re a total babe”, say “nice earrings”. When you get a GF, just be nice and not too heavy. Don’t be possessive or jealous. Make an effort to get on well with her family and friends. And when you’re a year in, take it up a notch - ask her to live with you, for example. That’s all probably bullshit - but it’s the best I’ve got! Good luck, Shane!!
@@martynmcclure7121 Thank you Martyn! Ha ha 😄 I appreciate the advice 😊 My longest relationship was six months, but we lived too far apart. Broke my heart, best relationship I ever had, I'll struggle for a while but I'll take your advice on board. (Screenshotted your comment if you don't mind)
There is an important point here regarding how much we need to be sensitive to the hurts and difficulties experienced by others. Life is a challenge, there are many challenges. It isn't what the challenges are, it is how we negotiate them. As a young exhausted widow, with 2 children, working in mental health, I listen to family concerns, marriage concerns, and happy family stories all day. I think it is really important that we come to appreciate others joy, rather than expecting others to be sensitive to our hurts. I am happy to be sensitive to the needs of others, however I have noticed that I feel I am not allowed to be outwardly proud or joyful about, for example, having had children without medical interventions. Apparently this is hurtful to those mothers who are obliged to take pain meds, or other procedures. Having had beautiful, natural births is a huge point of pride and joy for me. I want to be happy for people's joys, including my own. I don't want to oblige others to tend to my broken heart, that is my responsibility. We need a balance here.
Just talk to men, instead of trying to communicate with judgemental progressive females. Everything in life is easier and better if you isolate yourselves from those types.
@@kc6810being breast fed actually does matter for the immune system. So much so that here if babies are in the hospital they will ask the mother if she is able to bring in her own milk that they will then feed that through the feeding tube. They actually keep said milk in the freezer. Of course if it's impossible it is sad and fortunately we do have alternatives for those people.
I was a dad at 29, purely by accident. Now I'm 42 and not dating, a lot of this resonated with me. So glad I've got my daughter as I'm unlikely to have managed to do so otherwise.
Most eldest children that I know of were accidental. Their parents always thought that they would have children "sometime" but only because everybody else does.
My god, your brain works so fast that you can properly rephrase a question on the spot. Never lose that edge. What ever you're doing now in life, keep doing it. I don't know who you are, I followed a rabbit hole that started with WhatIfAlt and a conversation I was having with a coworker and I shared this because you appeared in my recommended feed after watching just 2, (yes TWO!) population conversations. 100% follow and notifications. Thank you so much for your quick minded conversation, which I thoroughly enjoyed on every conceivable level. I tend to prefer more acedemic and statistical discussions, but this just hit home for me, because a coworker mentioned the subject and I blurted out some nonsense that actually enlightened the conversational topic at that moment before we were rudely interrupted. Rest assured, I shared this with her for my own selfish reason, in order to continue our deepest of intellectual discussions. Thank you for this. Thank you sir.
34:30 So true. Women are shamed in society for having children in their late teens/early 20s, when that's suppose to be the most fertile time period for them. Also, it's not viable to have children at that age in today's societal structure, where younger ppl are forced to pursue college/uni degrees and get into debt, and not be able to support kids or even think about having them.
Mothers spend their time in the service of others for the greater good. What if we offered them something similar to the GI Bill? Young women looking to start a family would benefit men as well.
@@tomasrocha6139 Not true. Female fertility decreases after age 19. Peak is between 17 and 19. However, how many 17 to 19 year-old are capable of raising childen well in society as it is today? We have the same biology as we did millenia ago but civilization is not the same. Child rearing should not be left to children and that is what most 17-19 year-olds are.
Interesting how even in the absence or high mortality, natural selection finds a way. There's a massive evolutionary chokepoint happening right now because a lot of people aren't reproducing which means the people who ARE reproducing within their own populations will have a huge impact on the future of human traits.
I don't feel the human race is in danger. But throughout, I was thinking how the large number of young adults taking vows of celibacy and failing to have children, contributed to the fall of Rome.
Also on the future of culture. The values of large family parents will be the values of tomorrow's society. Unless the public schools have their way. Edit: For better or worse, the future will be VERY religious.
Having children comes with an insane responsitiblity. I have highest repect for anyone who does no just get pregnant because they want a child, but build up a stable nest first. Finding a partner you can rely on, having a secure job or at least a secure career level, have a home where you mustn't be afraid to be thrown out, have enough money to take care of the child and to get through unplanned problems like health issues etc. There are so many children living in bad conditions. Poverty. Exhausted parents who can't care for them properly. Single moms and dads who cannot afford the support they need. And now there come some rich old guys who worry about their pensions and their share values and try to talk girls into young motherhood. We don't give birth to children for economy nor pensions nor soldiers nor working slaves. If you want more children improve the conditions for families. People want to have children, but not at the cost of them living a miserable life.
I left a 8 year relationship in 2020 with a person who never wanted to get married or have kids but we got a large house together. I remember feeling like it was a tomb. I didn't want to grow old and die alone with him. I was raised to believe having children young or getting married young would ruin my life. But now I kinda want a family. But it feels so weird to say. Most of the women I know who are my age (late 20's early 30's) with babies are raising them alone. I don't want that. I want my kid to have a father and grandparents and stuff! I personally don't have a family and it's dangerous and lonely. Any emergency I'm in I have to network my friends together to help me. That's not acceptable for raising a child. It's barely reasonable for an adult! Plus, I'm ridiculously poor.
I have a female friend who just had a child, alone, at 32, so she fits in with what you have noticed. As for me, I'm a guy in my 50's who was never particularly in a hurry to have kids, but figured I'd eventually 'meet the right girl' and nature would take its course, and that simply didn't happen. Now it feels ridiculous to still hold out hope that I might find someone to have kids with... does not seem likely at all.
@@impactfoto your 32 yo friend is the worst thing possible. The problem isn't declining numbers of children being born the problem is the disintegration of FAMILY FORMATION. I'll bet your friend will be the first to demand special treatment and taxpayer support because ... "I'm a single mom". Draining the life out of working MEN (& women) to support her choice. She's EXACTLY one of the primary causes of how we got into this situation. Single women shouldn't be allowed sperm donations or taxpayer support nor should "rainbow" people be allowed to adopt.
If you have friends who are single moms, AND you're poor, the chances are high you'll be the same. Don't do it. Kids need a solid father IN the house. It's a 2 person job.
Became a dad at 17, 2nd kid at 21. Would not recommend, but I took my responsibility seriously working hard jobs to provide for them. I’m in my 40s and just now starting the career I wanted while my kids were young. I was hardly ever home with a 70 hr week during most of their childhood. I’m not an antinatalist, just remember that no one asked to be here. (Before you attack me, I love my kids with the very depths of my being and glad they are here).
Sounds like it wasn't the best way to go about it, but you did your best with the way things went. And you should be commended for taking responsibility.
Had 4 children early hard work and yes some times felt I wasn’t “there” all the time so so busy working odd hrs etc … we are now married 45 years ( still happy ) and have eight grand children … all close…. you ve done a great job enjoy the rest of your journey with your family 🕊
I hear you I think its pretty common, me the wife married at W,21 me,22 first kid about year later. I worked a shit for job for 31 years. I had plans of starting my own business and then surprise kid #1 show's up ,so I stayed were I was, I carried the benefits ,and than you start to build longevity, pay raises, PTO , it made it harder drop everything and start something new in the middle of raising a family, and wasn't just me and wife I had to think about more. The only thing was my kids seen me coming home from work night after night dragging my ass through the door, never really complained in front of them ,but they knew. I think that reflected on them.- That said we had some good fun with kids over the years and me and the wife wouldn't change that for anything.
I'll give my mom this: she told me that if I hadn't had kids by thirty to forget it. It's a do or die thing. Know what you want and know what you end up getting. Of course, it's also important to realize that having a child is not (or should not be!) a single person venture. It's not like going to the local car dealership and buying a mini van. There is someone else involved.
Yep and men are not stepping up to the plate so here we go again it’s all women’s fault damn if you do damn if you don’t. Everyone bags on Single moms especially if you have more than one child so yeah I’d like Christian’s and men to tell me again how it’s all women’s fault we get pregnant
My mom had me at 37 and had my brother at 40. My sister had her first child at 31 and second at 33. Many of my female cousins had their children after 35. One of my family friends just had her child at 39, and her mother had her at 40. It’s the same story with many women I know in my life, and all of their children are perfectly healthy. They waited until they were married. It’s not over at 30. Yes, chances to have children or have healthy children are not as favorable later on, but I know too many women having kids past 30 to believe chances are so abysmal. They ALL say that they don’t regret waiting, but most of the women I know that had kids in their 20s say they wished they’d waited. All that to say, I don’t believe it’s due or die at 30. Don’t give up just yet!
I know this is an old video, and I NEVER comment on anything but I gotta say something here. Maybe someone like me will se this comment and feel better or some "expert" who can do something about it will realize whats going on. I am very disappointed about how finances as the problem are glazed right over. Your expert is telling me that my membership to the tennis club took priority over my want to have kids. I spent my younger years working 10-12 hour days in blue collar jobs and could barely afford to support myself. I am talking about something as simple as a flat tire could leave me homeless. No money to fix flat tire>no car miss work >miss work lose job>lose job cant pay rent, ect. It took 20 years until I was stable enough to even think about being able to support a child. Believe me, I lived poor, cheap cars, cheap rent cheap food cheap clothes. This expert is saying I made bad choices on how I spent my money. I DIDN'T HAVE CHOICES. I also didn't hear anything about the compounding effects of all the reasons you bring up. So there I was, a blue collar worker making pretty good money finally at 35+ years old. that's when the collage bias kicked in ect. The only women that were available were, dare I say; badly damaged single mothers, drug addicts, forever party girls and a whole host of women that would have most likely ended up in disaster having a child with. I am 6'4 and no superstar but I'm certainly not ugly. I was not too picky about a mate but by that age, it seemed that all the "good" ones were taken and all that was left was a group of women who were looking for wealthy move stars or so flawed to the point that having a stable relationship with them was impossible not to mention having kids. I am now 50+ and I have a wonderful woman who is too old to have children. MY HEART BREAKS, when I see a picture of a little boy with a baseball bat resting on his shoulder on my bosses desk or in other places. DON'T UNDERESTIMATE THE PLIGHT OF YOUNG MEN. YOUNG MEN MATTER. And if I am not mistaken they are 50% of what it takes to make children. You start this talk by exploring women, women this and women that. And once you get to the fact of men being a provider, which is the bottom line what women are looking for, you guys literally just skip right over it like its not even a real issue. Tennis club member. YOU INSULT ME AND AN ENTIRE GENERATION OF EXPLOITED WORKERS! This message will most likely be like a piss in the ocean, making no difference. Nobody cares about young men anymore. A village that doesn't give its young men a place in it will burn it down just to feel its warmth. I am too old to be burning shit down. But now sit and talk with you experts and try to figure out why this whole society is going to shit. No offense, I love you bro. Keep up the fight.
💔 as a cohort female, I HEAR YOU loud and clear. And I lived this pain also as a woman. I have no children because of financial restrictions. When I listen to elites talk about the declining birth rates, I become irate. It's like they are only worried about cheap domestic labor and future consumers 😢 They have little understanding of the life circumstances we had been GIVEN!! May God bless us both ❤💙
I spent decades at min wage in NC, it's pitiful. What I earned for 40yrs at work is a joke beyond humor. It was 2.85/hr when I began. It's just now at $7.25. Can anyone live on that....
I hear you. But it is possible. We made massive financial sacrifices are raising 4 young men. I understand the plight of younger men and I advocate for them. I hope my boys will also find a good wife's and have children for a hopeful future. The problem is still undoing the lies told to young women about their fertility.
Good comment, OP. It is amusing that a woman has replied here a few days ago saying that it is possible with sacrifices. She must have glossed over the part where the cost of a flat tyre was between you and the risk of total destitution. I hope you are on firmer ground now. Best of luck.
When I was a teenager in the late 60s my father made an observation to me (more than once) that made more and more sense as I got older. He said, if a man stays single into his 30s he will likely not get married (long term) because he will be so set in his ways that only the perfect woman will do - and there ain't so such thing as the perfect woman. I would guess that, perhaps in a slightly different way that similarly applies to women. You need to be young enough grow together and develop similar interests together.
Nah. I would be ok to marry a woman in her 20s because she hasn't been set in her ways, and if she doesn't have mileage and baggage. I wouldn't marry a woman my age.
@@edheldude Yeah same, relationships tend to get stressful and require constant work on both sides. It would be worth it if it was the right woman. I would prefer a woman not raised in western society and does not obsess over social media and is more family oriented. I am 33 but people think I'm in my early 20's. I avoid hook up culture. Not interested in STD's and sleeping with random women I don't care for that have been with who knows how many men. I chase health, self improvement, and living a life worth living
Yep, when young you have still tolerance and haven't yet defined who you are. When you too old you're already set in your way of living and don't have enough patience to tolerate someone else
This topic is really interesting to me because my mom had me, her 1st child, at 40. Thankfully no congenital issues from me being that late haha. My parents wanted a 2nd child and tried for one, but it just didn't happen, so they adopted my sister from India. That adoption was an expensive, long process that a lot of would-be parents aren't able (or willing) to complete. There's another world where that fell through too and I remained an only child. I imagine if my parents had waited just a bit longer, my mother might've been forced join the growing amount of women who'll never have kids. Heavy stuff.
That's really profound. What a beautiful thing they did by adoption, that's not an easy process. My 3rd is adopted, we're hoping to adopt another next year :)
While she was single in the 1970s my wife went to Bolivia to visit a friend. She was offered babies by their mothers if she would simply take them to the US. At the time the Bolivian government would issue a birth certificate stating that the child was yours and born in Bolivia all for under $100. Infants weren't required to have a passport to enter the US and flew for free. But today things are simpler. Just go to the border and you can purchase a baby for less than roundtrip airfare to Bolivia.
Fascinating conversation. Demographers have been speaking to the dangers of global population decline for years, but got no press whatsoever, so I'm glad to see this here. One point I take issue with is the equating of "poor" people having large families many years ago to the idea that they still can now. The idea that families aren't willing to do without creature comforts in order to have children may be valid in some respects, but strikes me as short-sighted. Many years ago, when families were largely self-sustaining, many children were encouraged because they became much needed free labor on family farms. During industrialization, children were sent to work in factories at early ages in orderto help support the family financially. It served a purpose. We live in a time now where children are in school full-time until the age 18...and then many go on to additional schooling to gain opportunities at better paying careers, while still depending predominantly on their parents for financial support. For roughly two decades, parents support their children completely in a world where wages have been mostly stagnant since the late '70's while the cost of living has risen exponentially. Today's poor families struggle to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table, period. There are few creature comforts to give up, even if they want to. Every child brought into that equation stresses the family unit even more. And we now know there is a direct relation between financial stress in a family and the occurrence of different types of abuse. In the US, a father of two or more can work full-time at a skilled job and still qualify for food assistance because his income is under the poverty threshhold. Something about that just isn't right. There are plenty of married couples who don't mind living a simple life, driving beaters for cars, rarely eating out, buying new clothes or taking vacations. But even these couples struggle to justify bringing children into the world, knowing that they won't be able to provide for them in a way that can give them a hand up in the world. They aren't wrong for that choice. It's a complex issue with no easy answers. 😕
15 to 20 years ago, leftist would spin the conversation of demographic decline in the fall of working age population into a race guard game where they would tell minorities that you were talking about the fact that they would be more minorities in the future than white people and that’s what you are afraid of. They literally wasted 20 years, which is to say a whole generation of workers with their lies and propaganda to shut people up their whole. The world is too populated argument was there to but their arguments for birth control and abortion the whole time they knew this was bullshit from the very beginning. Don’t describe your good motives to other people , they were liars from the beginning and they just wanted to deceive you in order to get what they wanted which was a low population planet which they saw is better for the environment. Most of them were middle class and well off anyway, and it will hurt them a hell of a lot less than it’s going to hurt the poor .
I accidentally got pregnant at 20 and had my daughter at 21. The biological dad didn’t stick around but I married a 24 year old man who was ready to have a family. We had a son together, he worked and I stayed at home with the kids. Now our kids are in their late teens. I’m 40 and just about to graduate with my bachelors degree. We’re very happy and are glad we made the decisions we made. I can’t tell you how many people used to tell me I did things all wrong and should’ve gone to school first and got a job. I’m glad I did things in the order I did, even if I didn’t plan it that way.
I am so glad to hear this is one of your pet obsessions, I’ve been learning about this for about 6 months now and I feel like we are already passed the point of no return, we just don’t realise it because the true impact hasn’t landed yet.
@@nonfictionone there’s no “some” continents growing exponentially. A few countries are around a fertility rate of 5 . That’s high, but not as high as you might think, especially considering infant mortality rates in these countries are much higher than western countries. Even if a few stay above replacement of 2.1, considering we live in a global economy, these countries at 5 will still suffer.
@@nonfictionone the world works on a balance of trade network’s between countries, when certain countries can’t keep up their end of the bargain the whole system falls behind…
The "cost of living" is a real thing. The 50s-60s people maybe didn't have iphones, but they owned houses in safe neighborhoods with good schools at minimum wage. They also had a less competitive job market and job security. Before that, people had meaningful local communities. Those were destroyed.
My main reasons are: 1. The cost of childcare. 2. My husband works insane hours for the nypd (he has no say regarding his schedule and overtime) because of that my life would be one of a married single mother. If I could afford to be a stay at home mom, I might still consider it but that’s not the case. 3. How humans are treating the planet.
I'm 36 and a mother to a beautiful daughter, it's the most fulfilling thing I will ever do. Raising children right is hard but it's the most joyful and rewarding thing you'll ever do. This sounds like a daft inspirational quote but it's true. Your horizons expand considerably when you become a parent.
Amazing. It is a very interesting and difficult topic. I see many "old" women having children at 40+ and suffer the lack of energy and the frustration that comes with It. My sister, for example. I even notice It myself when I play with my niece. This is something some people, men and women, do not take into account, specially if you don't have your parent's help.
This is so much B.S. We've become selfish, narcecists. My wife and I are both 80 years old now, but we were young once. We got married at 19 while we were still in the military. Our dream was simole, to stay together forever, start a family and have a bunch of beautiful, healthy, childern. We did't dream of millions of dollars or Corvettes. I guess it's ok to do so, but for most of us, our best parenting years are early on and they don't last long . We had six, two boys and 4 girls, all educated and doing well. We somehow managed it. Credit to my wife, wisest person I know. Now we're hoppeing to make a dignified exit when our time arrives, without becoming a burden to them or anyone else.
This is exactly right. I'm 38 and about to have our 3rd child. I know people making 200k a year that say it's too expensive, but can spend 500$ a night drinking. People have become incredibly selfish and society endlessly caters to it. The old Mark Twain adage is the lead here about people being convinced they've been lied to. It's truly heartbreaking. Even worse is the ones that are so miserable and selfish they sabotage relationships of others or chase them into getting abortions.
Agree, I find it hard to sympathize to these hypergamic women, because I've been there, going on dates with ladies and they drop you like a rock when you don't drive a nice enough car, have a nice enough house, when you're not a CEO or movie star. You consider yourself too important to be bothered with anyone, so we'll leave you and your 7 cats to ponder how someday Mr Right will come along.
I’m a veteran myself and I’m expecting my first any day now. My wife and I both want what you seem to have. I’m the youngest of 7 and she’s the 5th of 6 so a large family is not foreign to us. God Bless thanks for your service!
The cost of living is so insane there were times I was losing weight so bad because I was broke. I can’t imagine what I would’ve done with kids. I was young and so worn out from life and I was just taking care of myself. It’s crazy to see friends I had with kids making it. Often said, what am I doing wrong.
I was 23 when I had my eldest and the shame that came smashing down on me from most women in our extended friend circle was unbelievable. The one that still rings in my ears was "But you're still a baby! You're just a baby, how can you be considering having a child!!??" From my husband's boss' girlfriend. Lucky for me. I have always had my own mind and always know I wanted a lot of kids. My husband and I now have 5 beautiful children and it was of course the right decision, but that shocked face and the just point blank infantilization of me, a 23 year old WOMAN was just so weird. I can't imagine most other young women holding up under a deluge like that and deciding to start a family anyway. In fact, out of my 22 cousins and every friend I grew up with only one cousin, which is a kindergarten teacher, and one friend, a conservative Vietnamese immigrant, have children. That's it. And all of us are in our late 20s to early 40s now.
I think in the UK renting is not secure enough to start a family. My landlords have sold the property and served me notice on a few occasions. I've basically been on the verge of homelessness at this point. I have a good job but that doesn't guarantee you anything these days. My child has had to move school 4 times because of this.
researchers consistently fail to address the magnitude of this issue. People ultimately need love and validation. When a man doesn't matter to a woman, when she doesn't gaze at him with a loving smile, tell him she wants him/needs him, that he matters to her. A lot of guys have never had that. This will cause disillusionment/isolation/soul sadness and mental health issues in men. No amount of material things, por* will be able to replace that. The problem in the west is 2 fold. Incels can't get a woman and the ones that do get one, end up in divorce/breaking up or being cheated on and losing more than the lady. So they swear off relationships and end up lonely all the same. (Mgtow) Both have the effect of creating lonely, angry, atomised ppl and broken society with plummeting birth rates. And can spell the end of that society. What are we seeing in the west now? Falling sperm counts, falling testosterone levels, births, marriage, anomie and a rapidly ageing society, with catastrophic debt levels. White ppl used to have close family bonds but now they no longer keep ties with family and send old ppl to homes. Jobs for life are a thing of the past, from where they used to form friends. White ppl lost their matchmaking culture and used to marry form within their own tried and tested social circle. With all that now gone, internet dating and cold approaching/PUA random women that u know nothing about is the way. Which can be dehumanising and toxic. Peace
@Cord Fortina The male to female sex ratios in the UK is 1.05 male to every 1 female. That's in the age category of 15 to 44. Now there are approximately 27 million ppl in that age category. So that means that there are approximately 675,000 EXCESS males in the UK in that age category of 15-44. Not even SINGLE men but EXCESS men. What will its effects be? With figures like this is it any wounder that females report feeling harassed in society and feeling unsafe. From the sad random/stranger murder of sabrina Nessa, aslingh Murphy, Sarah everhard. To drinks spiking, to ME TOO To Rise in London record teenage murders to rise in riots to political extreme movements. The EXPLOSION OF ONLY FANS. Could this be related? The standing British army is approximately 83,000 And we have approximately 675,000 EXCESS MEN. That could mean that 5% of men in this category could possibly never find a long-term monogamous relationship. 🤔
@@kamrudkd you fail to understand London's record teenage murders are mainly because of the rise of single mother household's, most criminals in fact were raised by single mothers. It has nothing to do with there being excess men. "females report feeling harassed in society and feeling unsafe"' - true, but men are still way more likely to be victims of violent crime. Also an excess of 675,000 really isn't much really considering men are more likely to be gay and have disabilities than women are.
@mimimi queweq no your facts are wrong. Men repot being gay less than women. In the younger cohort of millennials and gen z are more women that identify as lgbtq. This means that there are fewer heterosexual women in that cohort. There are now published figures on it, one even from the UK 2021 census. Just look it up
One of the things to consider is that a lot of people are priced out of owning their own home where they can start a family. There has to be a psychological challenge of starting a family without having a roof over your head that is yours.
He basically mentions something like this in his documentary "Birthgap". The decline in births in most of these countries coincided with big economic or social shocks. Essentially, more and more people said 'what's the point in bringing a child into a world/society like this?'. One of the most peculiar and interesting things about the post war era, in my opinion, is that we got told often that we'd never had it so good ('society is safer, more prosperous etc etc') and yet much of that period coincided with an increase in childlessness (an indication people are pessimistic about the future).
@@forzanerazzurri2339 The childlessness trend started in many countries before these over-consumption trends really took hold. The "stop spending on cars, iPhone, take aways" is a canned, overused response to this problem. I'd wager even that the increase in over-consumption might be at the effect rather than the cause of increasing childlessness. In that people whose societies go through those economic and social upheavals choose over-consumption because they've decided to forego childrearing. As in, 'if I'm not going to have the particular and deeper fulfillment that comes from childrearing -because who in their right mind wants to bring children into this society - then I might as well have hedonic fulfillment'.
@@argh2945 that's a really good point, over-consumption may indeed just be a symptom. Even the Philippines, a relatively poor country with a strong conservative family orientation, anti-abortion laws and 90% Catholic already has a fertility rate of 1.9 in 2022 well below the fertility rate from 2.7 in 2017. No matter how conservatives, the right or the likes of Jordan Peterson try to downplay it, the economic incentives to have smaller families is just too strong in this globalised industrial capitalist economy.
@@rodjayoma7085 Yes, the same reasons keep being used over and again (such as loss of traditional values/religion or over-consumption or lack of state support for families etc) but this childlessness trend has taken hold in both liberal and socially conservative countries, in developed and developing countries, in ones with high levels of state support for child care (Scandinavian ones for example) and ones with low levels of state support for child care (Japan for example).
Society has evolved into a requirement that in order to build a home together and pay bills most people on lower incomes (who historically had the most children) need to both work..Just to survive. Putting off having children through necessity not choice. One wage used to be enough..now it's two wages. Falling birthrate is a direct casualty of this brave new world. It's not going to change because everything is monetised for profit maximisation and incomes are too low for many to contemplate starting a family.
I was married, had 2 children. But have not seen my children in twenty years. When the wife divorces and then alienates the father out of the children life, you can't do a thing about it. Change the custody laws to 50 50 if you want a better society. Women get full custody 90% of the time.
5 years elementary, 3 years middle, 4 years high school could be done in half that time. I still remember sitting in classrooms looking out the window wondering when my life was going to start. I'm 45 and never married and or had children.
I'm in the exact same situation. Mid 40's, never married, no children. I have a high paying job, a lot of stuff, lots of investments, I want for nothing. But I question what am I doing. What's my purpose? To have all this to have a great retirement at 60? A family to share everything with is what I need.
I have 7 kids. Some tough stretches financially. No fancy house, vehicles or holidays. But every day facebook reminds me (thru pictures) i have a lot of fond memories. I just have 15 year old twin boys left and the caboose. My 10 year old girl. Went by so fast it seemed. I have no regrets.
if i can barely pay rent with 4 roomates, than how am i going to provide for a family? this whole conversation revolves around how sad it is that women don't get to have kids... completely ignores that men are a part of this, let alone that men have their own wants, desires and needs... men in my generation are entirely disposable and replaceable
Get out of the big cities. Life is very cheaper outside of those large urban centres. There's a big price to pay for all that convenience and living where it's "hip".
they always ignore the men's side, many men are not having families either. In my experience women treat men like expandable ATM's, i'd rather just stay single and enjoy life the way i want to.
A Japanese widower was being interviewed about the living conditions in their society said that loneliness and isolation were bad because in their society they are not allowed to socialize or speak to those not on the same level of the hierarchy they have achieved. So this man will die alone and someone will eventually find his body due to the stink. How sad is this?
The dissolution of extended family members living and working together has made life lonelier and more difficult. Independence and nuclear families has a cost. @@jmanakajosh9354
There are many factors that contribute to a low birth rate. I will mention some that come to mind. 1. Divorce laws. Ask any professional male about marriage these days. Like me, many, if not most, are children of divorced parents. I saw exactly how much financial damage it caused my father. That was 2 generations ago. These days, divorce is the norm and the amount confiscated assets from men far larger. Few men are reckless enough to trust a modern woman with half his wealth and half his future earnings. Divorce laws provide a massive financial incentive for women to game marriage. 2. Post-agricultural economy. Outside of agricultural societies, children are a pure deadweight from an economic perspective. Post-agricultural societies do not have large farmhouses that can fit over 5 children. Other than on farms, children have no economic value. 3. Mobility, population density, and ubiquitous communication. It is difficult to settle down with a person, especially for women, since their pool of potential partners could be in the thousands or tens of thousands of men. There is always the illusion (often the reality) of someone better out there. 4. There are many work options for women. This relates to education as well as work. Women's most fertile years are spent in school. Once they graduate, there are no serious social pressures to settle down. There is a school to work to retirement pipeline that, in a heavily consumerist society, makes children a financial and consumption burden in many ways. 5. Loss of community child rearing. One reason for the explosion of rebellious women in the 1960's was the simple fact that no one likes being stranded alone to raise children in the suburbs. Let's face the reality that being a suburban mother is stifling experience. I say this as a conservative. I admit that the life of a stay at home mom in the suburbs is not appealing. In previous times, people lived in groups of a hundred or more and communally raised children. Women used to be in proximity of potential aunts, grandmothers, and in-laws to help watch children and to provide social interaction with adults. In our mobile age, we live hundreds of miles from parents and siblings. Raising children has become a solitary activity for the suburban mom. What is my conclusion? As long as we expect the living standards of a post-agricultural society, there is literally nothing the government could or should do to somehow mandate that people have children with the exception of completely eliminating current divorce laws. Keeping the state out of marriage would provide the only possible incentive for highly educated and financially secure men to return to the alter without the virtual guarantee of confiscation of their wealth. In the short run, and with more recent developments such as dating apps, substantial civilizational and economic decay, expect the birth rate to continue to decline for all working people. In all the above discussion, I did omit one obvious, consistent exception. Government subsidized single motherhood will always be a source of fertility - but only among the dependent classes. That is itself catastrophic since, by definition, dependent people contribute nothing to the economy while their children usually help destabilize it in the future. Expect urban centers all over the welfare state world to become so dysfunctional as to become unviable - leading to mass starvation in the coming decades. It is truly silly to make a case that marriage and children make sense for employed people in contemporary economic, legal, and social circumstances. I wish it were not so but I am too rooted in reality to think otherwise.
Your first point just sounds like some MGTOW nonsense. Marriage rates have only really declined for lower class men. The idea that men with means are rejecting marriage in droves to protect their assets is not at all reflected in the data of who actually gets marred. Marriage has pretty much become exclusive to higher class people particularly higher class men. For women education level and class status are less correlated with a likelihood of ever marrying though there is still a correlation. The most likely people to marry in the US are college or more educated men and women and this cohort also has the lowest divorce rates. Married women have more children than unmarried women so it can be assumed that increasing the marriage rate particularly for young women would increase fertility rate problem is young women don’t seem keen on marrying down. Young women are generally not interested in marrying men with lower education or earnings than themselves they tend to go for their equal or higher. So if men are not graduating and if they are dropping out of the workforce women especially young women are not going to be interested in marrying them and the marriage rate will continue to fall along with the birth rate.
1:19:42 "There is gonna be fewer and fewer people companies to hire" - if that would be the case then the real wages should be going higher. And the throuth is that wage growth is lower than inflation =real wage growth is negative. This is one of the example when the economy is shouting at you that there is abundance of workers / people in the world. I could continue with the housing market, but I think you get my point.
At 46:50 they're making the same mistake too. My great grandparents had a dosen children, then their kids COLLECTIVELY had less than a dozen. My great grandparents had a farm, my grandparents had gas stations. Loosing agriculture changes the economics of having children.
@@susanarojo3906 That doesn't mean the the quality of life is going down. I see that as like an only child who inherit the family tree's wealth... wealth / GDP could stagnate while GDP per capita could go up.
I would say its because the standard of living is plummeting and has been for a while. We peaked out and plateaud for a couple of decades and then slowly at first and then increasingly things started to get worse and people see that trend and realise theres a long way to fall
My friend is one of three sisters, none of whom have children and are all almost 40, their parents so wanted grandkids. It's worst for my friend because ever since she was little she's wanted to be a mother more than anything, but cancer put a stop to that. Such a shame.
I’m surprised there wasn’t more discussion about the state of the economy, cost of living crisis, housing market bubble etc affecting this topic. Having children is very expensive, most young people can barely even imagine affording a house, nevermind affording a house plus children. It surely is a major driver of this.
Yet somehow people during and after hellish war times in way worse conditions with completely uncertain future were able to have more children than we do. Really sounds like we are searching for reasons not to have kids
But I swear poorer nations have a lot more kids and their position financially, relative to western nations is much worse. I think the financial crisis is just a convenient excuse.
The west has below replacement level fertility for 4 decades now. Ppl aren't having kids. There are more old white ppl than children. More white ppl die then are born in most countries. About a third of the population is over 65. Marriage and family formation is at all time lows. Children out of wedlock all time highs. Now more black kids go to university then whites as a proportion. White boys from poor backgrounds do the WORST in schools. More young white ppl identifies as LGBTQ+/trans now. (It's legal in the west, so I'm comfortable with that). But they statistically have fewer children. There is huge national debts/gdp. They have been fighting wars in muslim countries iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria and quiet wars in African muslim countries. (What did they achieve? Why did they truly go to all these wars? Who will truly benefit?.....ohh you, your children and grandchildren (if you had any) will pay for these wars from YOUR tax money)). So with all this going on, in 20 short years time who will look after the old in the west? Where will the young ppl be, to work and pay taxes to support the NHS, adult social care, pensions etc....there will be MORE old white pensioners then young white ppl that work and pay TAXES. Where will the new consumers, borrowers and economy stimulatetors come from............ If not from the immigrants and the children of the ethnic ppl and Muslims? Is ALL this muslim ppl fault. What do you think?
40 or 45 years ago a family with just the father working could support a family, buy a house, a nice car, etc... That's a rarity now. Who has the time as well as the money.
Maybe women don't necessarily consider it consciously, but the idea of raising kids alone is not pleasant and modern society's attitude toward matrimony and divorce are major factors here. I realize women initiate divorce disproportionately, but it is a societal attitude in both men and women that makes so toxic. In my day (the 80's) it was just what you did, we all got married and had kids, the sad bachelor or the young spinster was the exception.
I've long thought that it is the nihilism and the fear, rather than genuine pragmatic concern, surrounding the economics of having children. I think a lot of people are simply unwilling to make even a slight reduction in their personal standard of living in order to have kids.
@@hunterbidensaidslesion1356 this is true. I even contemplated on my own perspective about this and decided I won't get a relationship let alone get married until I reach a certain level of lifestyle. Lucky for me I am a man that has a higher fertility window. Problem is, most women think foolishly they can do the same and pay the price for their life choices.
Look at him blaming people for cost of living being preposterous Look at housing costs College costs Healthcare costs Vehicle prices Food that isn't complete poison
@@Snake369 why do you presume there is only one cause ? Go read the " jaffe memo " a list of ways planned Parenthood brain stormed in 1969 to potentially get people to have less kids They had lots of ideas Also go read " NSSM 200 " and realize this has all been planned since 1973 if not earlier
All the concern about population decline is becos corps and govts are losing avenues to make money becos of reduced work horses and consumers. They tried fixing it though immigration put people are turning against this ! If people had decent working conditions and pay, everybody would love to raise children, but that would go against the govt and corporate Agenda!
I find it odd that the comments all point to delayed child bearing because of financial insecurity but a living wage that supports a stay at home mother is never really discussed.
As long as women are working it will not be the norm for a man to make enough by himself to support a family. There is a reason these trends started in the 70s and it rhymes with Weminism
A third to a half of all Europeans died during the Black Death of 1348-1350. The result was a dramatic rise in the standard of living for the survivors. There was more for everyone.
Oh yeah....things were great. But just a couple centuries later The Turks rampaged and enslaved up the Balkans all the way to the gates of Vienna. Districts in Hungary, Serbia, Wallachia were almost wiped out. In 17thC large swathes of Germany were depopulated during the 30 Year's War.
I wish I could have started having kids earlier! I got married at 25 (I'm the female). We started trying for a baby when I was 26. Didn't conceive for 11 months (I blame the IUD). Then of course, pregnancy lasts nearly a year, so when I gave birth I was 28. We've kept the kids pretty close together and have 3 now. I'm turning 33 this year, but we're hoping for another before getting off "baby island" lol
"didn't conceive for 11 months"... In the grand scheme of things, you're really going to complain about this "delay"? Many people struggle for YEARS to conceive... Count yourself lucky.
I have told my grown up kids if they want to have kids have kids, if they don’t then don’t. Both in long term relationships and have both agreed they don’t want kids. When I asked they both said why would I. Money is short, trying to save for a house, continual bad news and conflicts in the world. In addition to costs of everything going through the roof. Honestly I can’t blame them
Correction, Chris @36:15 ~ Women are the gate keepers to sex; men are the gate keepers to relationships. This is an important point because it is one of the several pillars to the culture/population problems in modern societies.
I refused to have kids because jobs pay us like slaves and my salary can’t keep up with cost of living. I refused to get married because I’m broke as is and divorce rates are at an all time high. And I couldn’t afford to give anyone half of nothing. I’ve also decided that living my life and not worrying about a job is much more fulfilling. I could work and be poor or just sit home and be poor. I choose to sit home
@@JamalW239 that was actually the plan. I’m in this world not of this world and I don’t want MY children to experience this disaster people call “life”.
@@JamalW239you cannot live on through your children, and there is no gauruntee they will even like you! Many of those "relationships" are more pain than pleasure, especially after you and their mom break badly...
When I was very young, I remember many very good intentioned people (in my family and community) telling me, ‘Don’t get a girl pregnant or it’ll ruin your future’. I was petrified to get a girl pregnant’. Then by the time I was in a position to have a decent job (after all my schooling was done) and my wife and I tried to have a baby it wasn’t working out. We then were told by medical professionals that a woman’s eggs are “old” by about 34 Y.O. ! We spent many years secretly depressed, desperate and looking for help. Every time someone asked me “if” or “why” I didn’t have a child it would almost put me in panic. It was awful. Our friends kids were growing up…we were stuck…..it sucked, A LOT. This went on for about 14 years. Finally, we found the help we needed, payed a lot of money and got very lucky. But there was no way we were going to be able to have another child due to my wife’s issues. We wanted 2 or 3 kids. But, I feel I am the luckiest guy to have my child. I wished we started a lot younger. Sorry it’s a long story despite leaving out 95% of the story
I never had planned or desired to have kids when I was young. After getting married I got my wife pregnant. That boy is now 14 years old and I do not regret it at all. We had another child as well because we wanted our older child to have someone in this life for after we pass. I do not regret that decision ever. I am glad to be able to have passed my knowledge on to the next generation.
Great stuff as always, Chris! Your channel is very underrated, but I am confident it will continue to grow in popularity because your subject matter is both interesting and important. Keep up the good work, brother! Glad to have you in Texas!
When my niece married in her early 20’s, she wondered about waiting to have children. I told her 1) there is never a “convenient” time to have children, 2) the older you are, the harder it gets. I told her she would be better off having them early, regardless of circumstance. They have two beautiful girls now and is not yet 30. :)
Child rearing is more costly to women. We sacrifice more. On top of that, society does not value moms and homemakers. It’s all about the career and the ability to make money.
A big part is the people who had that first child but where Not planning for it to happen and once it did, they got married and just kept on making a family. Today, it is more possible than ever to avoid that first "Mistake".
In a world where people live like the second and not like the first we won't exist. Mistakes are to be learnt from to not repeat. Having a child is rarely a mistake. The mistake is having sex thinking a child couldn't be the end result. People don't like to be honest with themselves and lie unfortunately. It's sad. Sometimes you have to hold a mirror to the ape in the zoo just to see what happens. They generally toss excrement to make it go away.
Children are super expensive to have when you cannot afford a home or somewhere to live as a family. The costs of a child is said to be £100000 over the time until 18. Debt is a huge albatross around the necks of young people, especially the STUDENT DEBT of tens of thousands minimum.
I live in Canada. I have 3 kids and my wife is pregnant with our 4th child. I work really hard to provide for my family. You can always find a reason not to have kids. But if you make up your mind you will find ways to provide for them and your wife.
@@larcm3bro at this point you’re a donkey on a plantation… wait until she says she’s not happy and reams you in family court. I pray for your body and soul!
@@runswithraptorsdon’t compare these two countries. UK is an absolute sh**hole compared to most of the US. Nearly £6k is a lot of money here. Outside of London specialist white-collar jobs that require 3-5 years of experience pay £30k pre-tax and that’s considered better than many of them 😂😂😂
Why is this a bad thing? We built our societies with far less people than we have now. I think the banks and the bureaucracies are worried because the higher the population, the more money they make from taxes and interest.
Horrifying what he spoke of regarding elderly abuse, however this is happening not just to those without families but many with family that don’t bother with them and have shunted them off to a care home - out of sight, out of mind. This is v prevalent here in the UK. So having children is no guarantee of love and care in your old age, most adult children too busy with work, children and their social life, and as women now out at work no one to look after the elderly relatives(it’s overwhelmingly women who do the caring of sick/young/old). Humanity is on a very dark path.
The elderly are also living past when they would have died without medical intervention, meaning a longer and more difficult care time for adult children. Also, sometimes care home are the only options. My grandfather was still strong as a bull when he had dementia. He couldn't be cared for by any female relatives--he injured my grandmother one night during an episode. No male relatives were interested in the job.
My mother was so excited to become a grandmother. It was something she always had imagined she would one day be. My brother never had children because he was never able to find a girlfriend. I got a later start at it but have successfully had 3 kids. My mom is a wonderful grandmother, and my kids have really given her a new and exciting adventure in her life... she has several friends around her age. All had children of their own (2 or more), but she is the only one with grandkids. Her friends all grieved for the grandchildren they will never have. They all expected to become grandparents, but each one had to come to terms with the reality that would not be part of their experience and all experienced depression around it. I feel so deeply for not only their children who wanted families but never made it work, and for their parents who will never get to have a sleepover baking cookies with their grandchildren.
The bottom line is mothers are punished for being mothers. Last year, I left work 4 hours early to take my daughter to the doctor. I was given a point that cost me 10 hours of bonus time. So, thats 14 hours and i lost overtime pay at the end of the week for the 4 hours. I was exhausted that day from being up since 4am. I had workrd 6 hours before taking my daughter to the doctor. After seeing the doctor, i had to go wait for a prescription. Then i had to provide dinner and do laundry because her sickness was messy. Then up at 4am again....just to find out my male coworker was promoted. I was friends with my coworker who was promoted. He bragged about not paying child support. He said, one mother just raised the kid alone but the other mother had him locked up. After being locked up, his gf would pay to have the warrant removed and that covered child support. The next month, he wouldn't pay until going to jail. He said it went on for months until he got caught cheating on his gf and left the state. His main goals in life is weed and azz. This is who my employer promoted. I quit my job after finding a new one. I told my boss that im sick of working my azz off for him to promote a man who spends him time chatting me up. While im losing time at work and stressing because I'm trying to work 60 hours a week to support my daughter, my ex-husband only pays $436 a month in child support and eat steak and drinks beer at the bar every night. When a mother isnt receiving child support and she asks for help, child support recovery immediately asks her for money. When i retire, i won't receive the same ss payments as men due to less money earned while having children. My childless men friends will have it made. But im the one who has raised 3 productive members of society who are paying taxes and i have 2 grandchildren that will be working in the future. Kids see what their mothers go through and are opting out. Just yesterday, I asked my daughter if she has plenty of birth control pills. He employer doesn't offer insurance and we are stressing over how we will be getting them in the future. She asked a coworker how she gets hers. The coworker told her she has a baby and that baby qualifies her for govt healthcare. My daughter said f no!!!! Her coworker is trapped. Our society will always put her down. She will struggle between needing help from the govt and trying to work overtime. Because when a single mother makes good money, they tax the hell out of her. Ive seen men make comments about how easy we have it as women. I don't see any of them trading places and working and raising kids alone. At Christmas time, womem at work were fighting for overtime. Men just laughed and said they dont need it. Of course not, women are having children but men are childless.
So you are already instilling in your daughter that a lasting loving marriage with children is not possible. Some fantastic guidance on how to be bitter. After all, if she were to get pregnant you immediately assume she's a single mother. You seem to hate men and focus only on competing with them. Men and women were built to compliment each other not compete with and hate each other.
I’m raising my kids, my wife has an amazing job. It’s tough but I love it. It’s interesting how most of my male friends still wouldn’t consider it. I’ve pointed out that if they have children, raising them is actually investing in them and their future. Some people see their kids as a hindrance, which makes me wonder why they had them in the first place
Im so sorry to read this 😢 society won’t offer any support for women to have kids and then blame women for not having kids anymore. That’s why I’m never having any kids. Society doesn’t give a shit about women 😢
I’m so sorry about what you have had to deal with. So awful. Are you in the US? Because USA labor laws are some of the WORST in the 1st world when it comes to supporting mothers. In most European countries women receive very generous maternity leave and healthcare benefits, I think in Sweden women basically get like two years of paid leave. So, lack of support for working moms doesn’t seem to be the crux of the declining birth rate, at least in Europe.
Find a different environment. In a church of 400, there are 4 divorced moms who are supported emotionally and physically when necessary. The rest are married couples, 90% of the women stay home and raise the family. The 20 year olds are marrying and having babies young with one income. It can still be done, just not in a big city or in a community of affluent people where the brands you buy or where you travel are judgments of your worth.
The idea that having children prevents loneliness as an older adult is luficrous. My grandparents spent most of their time alone and definitely didn't love each other as I found out later. Theu didn't survive on the love of their children. We are all individuals, and we will all one day die alone. Children do t prevent this.
He is so right about starting your career later on. I have met so many women who had unplanned pregnancies in their teens/early twenties and who had a family first. I meet these women on CPD days and it seems like they did it right to me. My Chinese neighbour also thinks it's insane that we in Europe start our careers first. She says in China it's school/college/childbearing/career.
One thing I'll say in terms of women focusing on 'career first' is that in companies where the majority of hiring decisions are made by middle-aged men, a lot of those men will have a strong preference to recruit, and promote, young women rather than men or older women - this is very obvious when you have a close look at hiring and promotion patterns. In such cases it could be beneficial for a young women to use this to 'get her foot in the door' in terms of recruitment and early stage promotions, and then to bail after a few years to have children, rather than to entirely forego the privileges which are currently afforded to young women as far as recruitment and early promotion goes.
My sister got pregnant unplanned at 20 and she kept it. She deferred university for a couple years but then she got her teacher's degree and is doing great in her career. She has two other kids now. If she had waited for things to be "perfect" before starting a family she could have no kids at this point. We have to stop thinking that children ruin our lives and career potential.
30:00 minutes of the video: "There are 50 different ways to be childless". For me, it was the other side of the coin. Single motherhood, ridiculous divorce rate is what kept me from having children. I was the product of a single mother, the poverty of welfare, the selfishness and victimhood my mother portrayed turned me off to a higher degree than I could have imagined. The cost of having children was 1st in my mind without question. In university I took classes in family science and the statistics speak for themselves and I just couldn't take the chance. Currently, the horror of divorce court for men is murderous. 2 of my cousins of commited suicide over it.
Should have come to Poland - men in Poland don't pay child support as a rule. They punish women for not putting up with their BS, bc divorced woman in Poland remains single and poor for the rest of her life.
Im 30 and going to have my first child in a month. In my diverse female group of 29-38 year olds, I am the second person having a child. All besides one, are childless but don’t want to be. It’s what you mentioned, the time is not right, the male partner is not ready/doesn’t want children, not having a partner, wanting to be financially stable first… and many people overlook, that even young and healthy individuals can struggle to get pregnant. Infertility is common, and having stressful and demanding career doesn’t help.
@@stevo728822 most of them just don’t notice that time flies when you study, work and travel. Moving for a job, having a demanding schedule that doesn’t allow time for dates, studying abroad, traveling for work, paying off debts etc. Even when the odds are in your favor and everything is perfect, you still need to prioritize family planning with your partner and set up deadlines. Many of my friends were stuck in long term relationships with wrong men. Even up to 10+ years and the man is still not ready to have children because of xyz... You break up, and then can’t find a suitable partner anymore. Or you think you have, and you waste another 2 years with a man who in the end can’t commit to children, needs more time, leaves for a younger woman etc… it feels like we have a serious culture of individualism and indecisiveness here in west… 🤷♀️
@@maris7what men are they dating? I know plenty of guys who want to have kids and are established but the women are chasing the dudes who won't settle down. It's their fault and now they reap the rewards of childlessness.
Hello you beauties. Access all episodes 10 hours earlier than TH-cam by Subscribing on Spotify - spoti.fi/2LSimPn or Apple Podcasts - apple.co/2MNqIgw. Here’s the timestamps:
00:00 Intro
00:17 Stephen’s Motivations for Studying Population Collapse
05:04 Whatever Happened to the Population ‘Bomb?’
11:06 The Deeply Concerning Birth Rate of Western Nations
19:18 Do Women Want to Have Children?
36:07 Do Men Want to Have Children?
44:08 Are Finances Getting in the Way?
56:06 Is it our Moral Imperative to Have Children?
1:02:02 Why Industrialisation Correlates with Declining Birth Rates
1:09:22 Impact of Declining Birth Rates on the Economy
1:17:00 How Nations Can Improve Birth Rates
1:23:19 Where to Find Stephen
Chris! you need to make babies!
@@michaelmonaghan6599 hahaha
Women also make smarter decisions later age when choosing a partner that knows how to raise a family. Specialy when their educated, with a financial stability. We also now live longer and have more time.
Other variables like dating apps, social media, international dating are kind of solving some of the problem. 80% modern day people found their partner online.
@@michaelmonaghan6599 our Chris needs to settle down and then make babies. I believe that is the best way forward if you have listened to his previous podcasts 😁
There is forced birth in AMERICA. How are the numbers looking on that? It wasn't a coincidence SUPREME COURT, passed a ban on abortion. The US is already working for more Boots on the ground. Unfortunately they will not be with willing or able women or men, who can create lots of single mothers.
I have a friend that I’ve known since middle school. He had his kid at 22. At the time, we all thought he was crazy. We were the same age, and while we were busy partying, he was changing diapers. I certainly thought he was missing out. But fast forward. At 41, his kid is in college. He is healthy and full of energy. I told my friend, “You’re done.” What I meant was that the daily and weekly routines of school drop off, after school activities, were all behind him. That is the freedom that society never taught us, that if you could have kids sooner, you get more years with them, that more of that time is in your youth and better health. Whatever “freedom” you have in your early 20s as a single person pales in comparison to the kind of “freedom” you have when you’re in your mid-40s, when your kids are grown and you still have good health.
Agree. I'm going to be 40 when my first child is 20 💞.
@@kc6810 According to this data, it is ending and quite soon.
@@kc6810 it all depends on your way of thinking. If you believe children are a burden then obviously you would be "saddled" with taking care of your kids and grandkids. If you view children as creations you're proud of, something to mold and raise with your values and make them good people, good brothers, sisters, fathers, mothers, sons and daughters, then it's a gift to be able to spend time with your grandchildren doing stuff they like and teaching them things as well as learning from them. I'm not praising or condemning either lifestyle, I'm just trying to explain to you that there might be another side to the equation that could seem almost foolish in your eyes and a few others.
Just knowing someone you love is present really gives a morral boost even in the lowest point of your life.
Sad that a lot of people do not consider this when they decide to not have a family because they feel a spouse and children are burdonsome (especially talking to the ladies here). Okay, some family members can be unsupportive, but if you are good you will at least have someone.
So many old people just kill themselves or are abused because they have no one else to fight for or stand up for them. This is something people only realize when it is too late.
Single old people will be abused by the system, sadly 😥. No matter how much money you saved up for retirement.
You can maintain good health deep into life if you put in the effort.
I first became a mother at 20, postponed education and career to my 30 when I really knew what I wanted to do and my kids were in school. I’ve never regretted it.
That's the ideal way to do it. And as a result of motherhood, you were probably far more mature by the time you reached 30 than a single, childless person would be at that age and, as such, better equiped to pursue your education and career with discipline and the drive of having something bigger than yourself to work for.
May be the next step should be studying families who have had children earlier and then went on to school and a career.
Not trying to attack you, just genuinely wondering, how did you afford to do that? Did your husband cover all of the expenses?
I smell no husband aka spoken like a “single mum”
@@kc6810 my mum retrained as a teacher when I was in primary school. I remember her taking us with her to the University library on weekends, we'd be there all day. This was early 2000s though, so much cheaper back then
My wife had all three of her kids by the time she was 28. My daughter has three children by the time she is 29. You need lots of energy with little kids. Don’t wait for the right time. There is no right time. Life is happening now. Being a fit grandpa in his 50s is a true joy…
Did your wife and daughter go to college? Because that's the biggest delaying factor imo
"her" kids? They're not yours?
@Opium Copium very interesting. Its also where they get marinated in malthusianism. Our educational institutions are corrupted and anti-human.
Going to college for a degree that’s pointless while continuing to live within a single parent home and dating countless others seems to be todays youth .
You cant live at home and stay under your parent’s insurance until 25+ and expect life to be normal .
I had my youngest child at 25. As I see it you have the whole of your life to study, you only have about ten years to have healthy babies. I raised my daughters to understand this. And I agree, it's great to be a young grandparent.
When you can't afford a home and when 2 parents have to work at least 40 hours a week (often more) and when health care is so expensive why is it a mystery that responsible people think it's not responsible to have children.
exactly... here in my country, houses are so expensive that even with a good, slightly above average job by both partners, a house loan would be 30yrs💀 I'm not gonna pay off a loan until my retirement!!
@@NoctLightCloud, I think we are all missing the impact AI will have on the Job market. We need to cut population.
@jpvoodoo5522 how is AI going to take care of a Senior Citizen? How is AI going to take care of you when you are a Senior?
@@jpvoodoo5522That has been said every time a new technology comes along.
Richest generation- can't afford kids. Its not money.
Reasons I can think of which haven't been mentioned here:
1. Men are afraid because of the legal problems associated with being fathers. 2. People want to control their lives instead of having a belief system which involves selflessness and family values.
3. People are online rather than irl with each other.
4. Fertility in men is dropping fast.
5. Family trauma/disassociation
6. Uncertainty about the future/checking out/disassociation
7. Lack of "grown ups" among 20 somethings.
8. Very insufficient sex ed
9. College Ed valued over starting a family
10. Lack of traditional practices/events in communities, like dances, which set people up to want to engage and to be able to interact in a healthy mating game
I used to watch old shows with my mom and they were based in the 60 and back. Thry used to have "socials" and dances where people dressed their best and got together in a wholesome way and now we have nothing but clubs and bars. Now I might have gone to a social with my introverted self but you'll never see me in a bar or club.....and never on a dating app which means I don't meet anyone...except co-workers
Most prominent is rotten values. It used to be number kids that counted as status. Nowadays it is posts social media featuring exotic counties and looking rich.
For the first reason, I suggest people have marriage contracts overpowering no fault divorce, and placing the relationship out of family court and into contract law.
@@Opal5674 Even in the 80s when I was young these were common.
@@coreywilder1564 If our ancestors thought like that, we wouldn't be here.
We talked about this in the 90's. I remember a teacher telling me that companies want to hire new grads not older people. I was laid off from ATCO Electric after 15 years of service. I tried to get my job back when rehiring started and was just past from one person to another until I stopped. All the new hires are in their 20's and new grads. Our society has made getting a good job and school a priority in our younger child bearing years. I think we found a flaw.
Try contracting/consulting
It should be 1) basic education, 2) family and if you can fit in some more education and work while the kids grow for the first ~7 years, 3) career. This idea that you spend your 20's grinding in college and starting the foundations of your career or you'll forever be a career reject is insane.
@@wombatillo It is the reality. I did a degree after I had children. Nobody wants to employ a 40 year old beginner. Employers want experience as well as training.
Try dealing with cocaine, there’s no age limit there
@@arcabuz I would rather be dead than be a drug dealer or a drug user.
I'll be 35 this year, I'm childless, and going through what I assume will be a break up with a man I was hoping to make babies with. This podcast hit really close to home. Here's hoping I get another opportunity before it's too late
Lower your material standards, and look for compatible values. Good luck
Why do you want kids?
@@Brochacho619 Your mom
Why did the relationship not work out?
You need to get busy.
My wife is a nurse, and as part of her education, she became very much aware of the fertility window, and the increasing risks of motherhood at later ages. She was 23 when we married, and from the beginning, was insistent that we have children before she turned 30, which we did. Thank goodness I listened to her. We are now in our 50s, in great health, with much more time and money to travel the world and enjoy life than when we were in our childless early / mid-20s.
Different times
You’re almost a boomer you don’t understand the issues you’re children will face in this life and especially their children if they are even going to have them.
Good for you, love to have a women and child in my life, tons of doomers are out here
@@kni9ghtmodern women are the issue, not worth time spent on dating them. Stay childless.
It’s not that big of a deal my guy, several of our friends are having kids in late 30s a couple in their 40s as women .
As a girl child of the 60’s I made a personal decision to not contribute to the population “problem” (by abstaining). It seemed innocuous enough, just not being one of the parents. I spent my life caring for my elders and serving severely disabled folk. Now at 64, I realize I listened to propaganda. I probably would be a better person if I’d experienced parenting, even though I’m really not psychologically suited to the task. Sorry, everyone.
No need to be sorry in my opinion.
Shes not saying that. Hers was a noble life of service, but because of the negative messaging she received when she was young she didn't want kids. She could have done all of those things and still had children.
Sorry to hear that.
@@kc6810 you're devalueing both motherhood and the helping professions with your thoughtless comment
No one is suited until they have them.
Something to contemplate: The next couple generations of kids who it will fall on to support the aging population might feel highly resentful of the responsibility. They'll likely be supportive of their parents and grandparents, but that is it. But because the elderly will make up the majority voting bloc they will likely vote for politicians and policies that heavily favor them at the expense of the new generations. I can see a huge rift in society because of this.
I agree. All of these childless people are going to demand that other people's kids take care of them, in the form of oppressive taxation. The people complaining that it's too expensive to have kids now, haven't seen anything yet.
I have heard this is reason #1 that the Japanese youth don't bother to be part of politics.
The rift is already happening
Great point
This is a reall accurate observation. We've seen this exact process happen in Japan in the last 20 years.
It's great discovering that almost everything 'society has preached to us has been wrong.
Not everything. It's only a matter of perspective
@@wyleecoyotee4252 Enough to where it puts into question everything else.
@@maniswil2 very good point
Especially feminisms lies
I live in Ireland. Global warming does not scare me.
This was a great talk BUT you guys really dropped the ball in my opinion by not pointing out how social media has destroyed in-person interactions and how social media has diminished the social skills humans rely on to reproduce.
Population decline began in 1973, long before social media.
I don't think it's social media per se, but the decimation of third spaces like churches and bars and movie theaters. Now you might ask why those places where ppl hang out and meet new ppl. Today ppl meet online but as great as those places are, they are isolating. A girlfriend won't drop into your couch.
@@morganseppy5180 I can't agree more. I live in Australia and our average birthrate is 1.63 I think. I used to live in a regional city. Everything was so regulated. Activities that welcomed children were unwelcoming to adults. Whilst adult activities didn't allow children.
Since moving, things have gone back to what it used to be. Pubs are back to providing toys and playgrounds so both parents and children are welcome. And we have community activities for things like New Year Eve. Face painting and petting zoos for little ones, carnival rides for older kids, and live music and beer and cider for parents and older teens.
Something as simple as helping an eighty year old with her grocery bags, might mean an introduction to her twenty year old granddaughter. Who knows? The big thing I've found is that people are still having 2-6 kids. Completely different to cities.
I'm 43 and my partner is 33. We had our first child on December 22. I purposely waited as I wanted to be financially stable and able to be at home more once I had children. Now we've had one I wish I had had a child much earlier. Logically, waiting made sense and I am more stable than in my late 20s or early 30s but I now feel like I've missed out by holding off for so long and perhaps what's worst is that I'll be 53 when my daughter is 10, 63 when she is 20 and so on. I already feel myself slowing down and will only slow down more over the years... In simple terms, if I had had my Daughter 10 years earlier she will have gotten to be a part of my life and me hers for 10 more years than she will now. It's an opportunity cost I didn't consider and didn't appreciate.
From an evolutionary perspective, we are biologically designed to have children earlier in our lives than I have. It's not just to do with things like menopause but also our hormones, brain chemistry and a million other things.
This is also a social, and cultural issue. Less women have children and those that are, do so later than in the past. Talking about the reasons for that and whether it's a good or bad thing is a minefield but from a Male perspective, the fewer fathers we have the worse off the whole world is. Nothing will teach a young man about responsibility quicker or more effectively than having a child. It provides purpose and meaning to your life something which many men don't seem to have in today's society, leading to higher rates of depression in men, higher suicide rates and many other issues.
In the past, men were not regarded as full adults until they father a child. Look at the sort of people running the world today. Most of them are childless. Having kids often changes people's mindset for the better.
@@taras3702 I have to agree. I was 30 when we had my son. Looking back on my mentality, I was technically an adult, but I was not a man until a few years after my son was born.
"Partner"...that kind of vocabulary is half the problem....what are you, oil men in west Texas??
@@mrfarenheit9159 me and my "Partner" are not married so the term "Wife" doesn't apply and "Girl Friend" also doesn't really fit the bill, having been with my other half for 6 years and having a child together it doesn't really convay the depth of our relationship. I'm completely open to some other term if you can think of one that fits the bill better?
Congratulations to you and yours!!!💞👍🌻
This is a significant issue that governments just refuse to acknowledge and deal with. My late wife and I knew from wider reading that having children young is so sensible, when you are older after child-rearing, you are young enough to travel and enjoy life. We married at 20 and 21, had three children,before we were 30, but wanted five (health stopped this plan) and were then grandparents in our early 50’s. Sadly she died at 51, but now I have nine beautiful grandchildren, the eldest is 15 and I am not yet 65. God is good and we are designed to reproduce young. Modern culture deceives and deludes and is slowly killing itself. This chap describes the saddest people; those who delayed family too long due to the culture of the day.
I don't see anything appealing in having nine grandchildren. One or two would be enough.
@@zumurudlilit If the breakeven TFR is 2.1 then the breakeven grandchildren rate is 4.41. Reversing the math, having 1 to 2 grandchildren is equivalent to a TFR of 1 to 1.4, i.e. the levels which are doing it for Japan, S. Korea, Italy etc.
@@zumurudlilit Bro, really. Your insecurity is showing.
I agree with you 100%! Having 9 grandchildren is outrageous, ridiculous, and totally extreme.
@@theresabromar5415It’s 3 grandchildren a child, not really groundbreaking
In Australia, business and government love the drop in the birth rate. It gives them the excuse to bring in cheaper migrant labour.
They’ve violated the social contract! All they care about is profit!!
For any one birth they bring in five immigrants
Lol, that’s called shooting yourself in the foot. Look at some of the heavily migrated European countries. Lots of them have been taken over by Islamics and the laws have changed to meet their needs. Eventually it’s no longer the original country, but the migrants. Lol
Australia: the continent built upon the backbone of convicts being sent there. Makes perfect sense.
@@princesspikachu3915 Australia wasn't built by convicts.
36:13 36:34 When I worked in retail, I had many 15-16 year olds talk to me about how much they loved babies. 17-30, not a peep, in fact, hated babies. I call it "the flip", usually last year of high school, or entering University, she becomes completely mesmerised by global options for everything.
I wonder if the "hate" is a subconscious self deluding defensive barrier?
It's either that or psychopathy to actually "hate" babies out right. It's worse than to "hate" defenseless pets and animals by an order of magnitude. Babies are the most defenseless of the defenseless. Something has to be really really wrong in the individual's psychology to actually hate such beings.
Those who say it as a defensive subconscious line actually are the ones who feel the pain of not having one in a very deep way and would care the most to a baby- tears running down their necks- if they find themselves locked with one, abandoned.
@@danyyboyechildren are a tremendous sacrifice to raise healthy and properly and it certainly isn’t for everyone! I thought I wanted kids - then I babysat for a while and realized this is drudgery and insane
Previous Grad student with a baby here... you can't IMAGINE the shock and awe - and FEAR of undergraduate women looking at my baby in the car seat when I would have him on campus. It was like "Oh God - Not one of those!! Don't look at it! Don't let it get me! Who brought that onto campus??"
In a healthy society womem should be raised to have children right away out of their teens and normalize it. It when they want to the most. If it's normalized there is no guilt wracking about having kids early. Then by time they are 40 their kids are adults THEN women can start careers. It's the right way to do it. Our society inverts everything and makes everything destructive and unhealthy on purpose.
One of the reasons I left teaching at 30 was because the pay was so poor for the south of England that I could see how I could afford a wife and kids. Now have a job earning 5x more and married with 2 kids. Financial security is a massive issue.
what is your job?
I struggled really hard financially for most of my life. I was basically a failure despite enormous. Then later in life I inherited a large Fortune. Life improves so much when you are financially independent and people treat you so much better it both made me happy and sad
The worrying thing, is when we see that collapsing young population means there will be fewer and fewer working age adults able to support the system. This will make it even more difficult to support a family. More women will need to be working long hours just to build a life. If women are concerned with career before family now, that can only become a larger issue as people struggle more and more to make a living. I’m not suggesting women shouldn’t be free to make choices. I simply believe the future will make the choice to become a mother even more inaccessible to women. I’m a mother. I count myself blessed to have a husband and my children. I know many other women who want the same, but the most common thing I hear is that people just can’t afford to bring a child into their life. It’s very sad.
Someone needs to tell Africans, and middle easterners. This is only a problem in the west. But the same problem around the world is getting RICH and comfortable stops people from having kids. When you're poor kids are insurance, and when you're rich they are just a nuisance. People are selfish and it's extremely hard to admit. My lady and I make a combined 95k in the USA and we're about to have our 3rd kid. We just don't live the life of luxury.
@@EveIsJustMyBlogName I think that the opposite will be the case. Population increase makes urban land enormously expensive, so housing will be more expensive. Homes with yards have disappeared. And who wants to live with a baby and a toddler in a little flat 4 storeys up?
I was 38 years old when I had my first child. My husband was 40 years old and we have been talking about this between us wishing we would’ve met earlier and started this family project earlier. We both have professional careers, my husband is still doing his PhD. This podcast really put into words and data what I have been feeling about my own situation. I keep telling ALL young people I meet to start earlier. Looking back , I would’ve done things differently but hey… at least now I know I am not the only one thinking the education, the culture , the dating , the men and women relationship narratives need to shift for the next generation. I loved the podcast, thank you so so much for your work and I will be looking forward to help others avoid the challenges we’ve had to face having children later. 👍🏼👏❤️
Thank you for speaking up!
Hats off for being honest, more people need to hear this.
I always wanted the family thing as a man, but chances are becoming less like now as I'm 43, and the state of modern dating/courting as well as my individual goals. To your point though I remember being late 20's talking with another co-worker who married his wife young and had 3 or four kids by the time he and his wife were 23 or so; good Catholic Mexicans. At the time he was mid 40's and was advocating the same thing. Have em young and be able to enjoy your middle years with freedom. His only regret at the time is that his two boys, mid 20's were both still at home and the Wife wouldn't let him kick the baby-birds from the nest.
Very well said, wow so simple yet poignant.
@@derekhamel2991 hey , tell me about it. The dating scene can be brutal especially the online dating experience. All I can say is use online dating like a tool, put yourself at places with people who probably share one common interest. Take classes, be a bit bolder to approach anyone you feel good energy from. Don’t give up. I started the online dating in my 30s and I was a late bloomer, not the feminine sexy type and I didn’t care much of what people thought of me… but then I wanted family and a marriage based on love and for that I had to « optimize » my strategy. I lost ton lf weight to be more appealing to men (being a fat woman decreases your mating range!) I read Harville Hendrix books , found out how I was « f**up », dated around, recognize my patterns… try to improve them, met some men , all of them were really nice people. Even when things don’t work out, we always wished each other better luck. We are all in this game together trying to reach our goals so why not encourage ourselves and help one another. You should keep going, as a man you can have a kid at 60! Look at Clint Eastwood! Hehe
There is a woman/man/it for everyone. It is never too late for love. I met my husband on Happn. He was the only one I talked to on my 1 week trial of the app.
I’m sure you’re a great guy. Don’t give up. Look up to women in the streets and smile to them, open doors for them. Not all women think that is toxic masculinity . 😉
Chris, this was one of the most powerful podcasts I've listened to and I regularly listen to some of the greats. Thank you for doing this interview.
At 0:19:45 Chris & Stephen completely undermine the meaning of this data. This idiotic "you live your life they way you want to" libertinism is central to this problem. I have several kids. It's bloody hard. I don't get to write & make videos like I could were I childless. I can't help but notice the TH-camrs I like - Chris, Tim Pool, malace - are childless. Again, this ideology is CENTRAL to the problem. We do need social pressure to step up & stop being narcissistic Peter pans. "this desire is innate" - what nonsense. How can you empirically investigate if a woman who says at 25 she doesn't want kids, wait till she's 50 & compare with the parallel universe where she did have kids?? You're just reinforcing the message that it's OK to avoid the responsibilities of being part of a multigenerational game where we all need to work hard.
As someone who never had a family or really any exposure to even a functional relationship throughout my childhood, I think this really set me up for failure.
I wanted to be an engineer since before I even knew such a thing existed. The only thing I wanted more than that was to have a family one that. These were the two dreams I had in life. So, in spite of my extremely disadvantaged childhood, I found my way into college and put in the work. I made the Dean's List most semesters, tutored math up through multivariable calculus, had a technical paper published, tested for Mensa out of curiosity and qualified, and graduated with honors along with receiving a bachelor's in mechanical engineering. I thought I had a job lined up at Honda after graduation, but it fell through, and I went on to apply for hundreds of engineering jobs with no success. Eventually, I had no choice but to accept reality.
Once I realized that neither of my goals would ever be accomplished in the slightest, I no longer had any motivation to succeed or do anything at all really. My life continues, but entirely without hope, so I'm really just existing until the end.
I got an engineering degree at age 30 thinking it would always be a guarantee of a good job.
Found out it doesn’t work that way. After twelve years I left the field. Self employed now for 24 years.
Also, unless you are highly skilled, once you get out you are not likely to get back in.
I told my wife twenty years ago I’m just waiting to die. But I paid off the house and live debt free since 2012. It’s better now.
🫂
I dropped out of my masters program at age 23 when my husband and I had our first child. It was important to me that I be the one at home raising my children. 14 years later, I am still a stay at home mom to our 3 children. My husband has moved mountains to make sure he has been able to work and earn enough to support me and our children on his income alone.
If our species wants to survive into the future we will need to put the priority back on the family and less on career success and “lifestyle freedom”.
Kudos to you and your husband. We did the same thing.
I read this as "women need to focus on raising a family and finding a provider and not education and independance."
That starts by telling 20 year old men to grow up and stop extending adolescence until 30 and then postponing family until they can afford it. Women are career focused because they know they have to support themselves and a family while their male counterparts are seeing how many notches they can cut into the bedpost.
@@Jirizo1 Yes Sir. Women are free to do what they choose. But when the mother is focused on her career and freedom, someone else is taking care of and raising her children. Usually the government run public school system and daycare providers. Since the big feminism push in the 60s and 70s, the family unit and especially children in our society have paid a great price for making women believe that taking care of your children and home is not worth their time and a useless job because it doesn’t make money.
I believe family and children should come first for the mother. If we still have time and energy left after these things, then sure, pursue a career or other personal freedoms.
@@kimberlyjean2248 I'm 84 so I've seen this from the start ... The two greatest contributing factors were: 1.) the "Pill" which led to 2.) pie-in-the-sky women's lib.
The answer is ... teen years end at 19 and work begins at becoming a responsible adult.
The only reason the UK’s birth rate isn’t as low as the rest of Europe is probably due to the masses of foreigners that entered the country over the last few years, who then went on to give birth here. The most popular baby names give a clue as to the demographic change.
According to the Office of National Statistics "Muhammad was the most popular boys' name in four out of nine English regions". Muslim women produce a lot of babies.
@@BiblicalBasics no, almost every first son is given this name. So it is misleading. The group that have the most children are Polish women, from what i heard.
@@BiblicalBasics Indeed, men know their rights as fathers, providers, protectors and women knows her position. Hence why you find peace and harmony in majority Muslim families.
@@thebeast09876 65% of muslims marry their first cousins. In England this equates to 1/3 pakistanis bearing children with genetic disabilities. The religion has some benefits but massive drawbacks.
@@maniswil2 65% impossible, but I do agree there are a % who marry their first cousins and have these problems mainly in boys. Ultimately Islam keeps families and communities together in peace and harmony, you will see the spirit of brotherhood when breaking fast together.
It’s been a fair amount of time since I’ve spent so much time shouting “exactly” & “I’ve been saying this for years” at an interview/discussion/podcast.
Thank you & brilliant job! Nice one.
The issue is, we've created a society that's not necessarily children friendly. The way we live and the way things are doesn't encourage ppl to want to have kids. There are so many issues that need to be tackled before people will again feel like having kids is worth it. It's complex. People's values have also changed overtime..due to many reasons. It's not going to be easy to shift this..just like it took years for this to come about, it will take years for things to shift again but not unless something radical happens within the society we have created.
Exactly ! sometimes Not having kids can be a great act of love for unborn children.
It’s not enough telling people how having children is usually part of our dreams, or how we might change of mind later in life etc., if you get reality check you realize that having children without money, education, family support etc., it’s the prefect recipe for unhappy children and frustrated adults. At then end, those kids would be our kids, and who wants to see their kids to suffer in this horrible world?
As conscious human beings I think many young people have came to the realizations that if you are going to contribute to bring more human to be eaten by the system, you rather don’t have them.
I adopted my first at 32, had biological twins at 36, and one more at 44. Praise God! I definitely tell my children to have theirs early! It was an uphill battle for me.
I had - due to health reasons - my first child at 42 and twins with 45. I wouldn't have done so by choice, but I see many advantages as well. I know much more and I need less in this period of my life. I would have been a worse mother earlier.
Wow 🎉
@@heikejohannajahns3257 did your children come out okay with no birth defects? Sorry I don’t know any other way to ask that.
@@kc6810 I don't mind, don't worry. Yes, they are alle healthy and fine. Now 17 and 14.
It should be a crime to have children at that age.
I am a 38 year old American male with four children. My wife wanted five.
We are planning on eventually taking care of her mother who is just turning 60. We will never have a empty home. You sacrifice for those you love.
That's very nice of you to take care of your wife's mother
Good for you! But is not a general trend in N.America, Europe or East Asia
Hope you can afford to support all those people.
Good for you! That’s Wonderful!❤
Tragic. My sons are 20 and 24 and i am looking forward to empty house. Btw my ex-husband's grandma lived alone till her death at 97 and firmly refused to live with her daughter or son. It was her space and she intended on keeping it this way. Even when she broke her leg and died soon - she didn't allowed her daughter to stay overnight. She was allowed to come in in the morning, prepare breakfast, then a nurse in midday and her son in the evening.
This episode put a tear in my eyes, next year my wife and I are planning to have our first child and you just remove all hesitation from me. Thank you ❤
@@Chris-es3wf We’re waiting 3 months actually, gynecologist appointment. So what anyway, are you a father already?
God bless
All the best❤
it si the best thing on the world, it is incredibly hard, but it is worth it. when i was younger i was saying i don't want children because i was traveling the world, having fun, now i have 2 kids and i want two more. my wife is 30 and i hope we can get at least one more. it just makes you a real men, and a grownup
@@nonnoyobisnis8705 I meant the life to work balance, and so on. as hard, not the kids, the kids are easy
it's too expensive to exist, I'd never do that to someone else.....
Imagine being born to a world invented by humans for humans but you can’t even afford to exist there. Welcome to humanity.
@@FragmentedMindZ you just a drone this world is not build for you but for "them"
If the majority of our ancestors took that approach then there wouldn’t be humans at all.
True
@@robertwhiteley-yv1sy And?
As someone living in Germany and working in the medical field I can only confirm that the whole "old peoples' homes" branch is a rising financial milk cow, while the care truly provided is suboptimal
All those young muslims will take great care of you. Lol
Talking about Germany, the doctors are so dismissive. It is like they need your money but dont want to see you in their office and the world thinks Europe and America have the best medical care.Example, my son had intestinal bleeding and the doctor just wrote for a cream and no further investigations. never took history,no general examination of the child. when we asked questions, they acted as if we were questioning their intelligence and looked agitated and act busy. THAT IS TOTAL NEGLIGENCE RIGHT THERE
That's why I would rather be the old man in a cabin untill I die then think of having a younger generation take care of me. Most can't take care of themselves. Many are still living at there parents home.
Same here in the states
A WHO report says: Rates of a6use of older people are high in institutions such as nursing homes and long-term care facilities, with _2 in 3 staff reporting that they have committed abuse in the past year._
Imagine that. You'll get medicated and handled roughly, or even abandoned.
This kind of content is what the Internet should be used for! 👌
Spot on statement
@@oneschance Yes
Yes
I laughed (bleakly) at how "this is the best time in history to live on Earth!" turned so swiftly into "of all the nightmares we could live in, this is the most luxurious"!
my life was fabulous up through age 65 years …… i have the best partner i could dream of …….. from year 49 and beyond i have been useless except for party-time ……. ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤ Let’s all go to Sugar rock Candy Mountain
It really feel like the end of the world roof top party right now. Nothing makes sense, economy, government, foreign policy, national debt, feminism, LGBTUKHFBUFVEQ, Wokism....
On the other hand market meltup, hosuing FOMO, packed mall and bars.
However this ends, it wouldn't be pretty, but at least right now the drinks are still flowing
@@sunso1991 ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️ cheers to you …..lets all go to sugar rock candy mountain
So you prefer living in the 1940s? Or maybe earlier where the mortality rate everywhere around the world was like the Congo or worse? It is still the best time to be alive for 99.7% of people on earth.
It is easy to make the mistake of assuming doom and gloom from these podcasts. They’re important but putting too much weight on them is insane.
@@LogicSpeaks The 1940s were the most catastrophic decade in human history, so not a good comparator. In general, though, anything before the internet would be an improvement; anything before the nuclear bomb has an obvious advantage; anything before 1914, when the intellectual and artistic culture of my civilization was still at its peak, would be excellent, and anything before the despoilation of the land and systematic degradation of the poor by industrialization would probably be best. I know war, disease and poverty were great evils then, as now, and if magically transported back in time I would not cope; but if I were born into it I would have the same chance as anyone. Besides, the Victorians could claim with just as much justice as we can to have mitigated those problems - as could the Georgians and the Stuarts, for that matter. They were making progress almost throughout. The twentieth century, on the other hand, was a devastating backwards step for humanity. Renaissance intellectuals were constantly going on about how the times they lived in were the best ever; if you don't find them wholly convincing, I don't have to find you wholly convincing!
Mortality is an especially bad metric because most of that is infant mortality - sad, but well within the normal range of human experience.
I’m 39 and have been with my husband for twelve years. We both have good jobs but have chosen not to have children. The main reason I would attribute it to is that we couldn’t buy our first home until we were in our mid thirties, and although I thought I would have a family I didn’t envisage having one in a rented apartment. Now, we’re happy just as we are and are planning financially for the probability that we will never receive a state pension or social care.
" Now, we’re happy"
That will change
@@alwaysright3943 all things change and no one can walk all paths.
Have a little faith act on it you wimp have 2 kids back to back little scarred sky is falling not women enough to have kids , I had 2 nothing to it best decision ever EVER
I feel like I’ve completely lucked into having had a wife and three kids. We had our first child at 25/23 through sheer recklessness. Just a feeling of ‘It’d be cool to have a baby’ and , man, did we suffer for that economically! There’s then a 10 year gap as we recovered financially and then another 6 from there. But at 46, I feel like one of the luckiest guys I know. There’s never going to be a ‘right’ time - just do it!!
Really? But what if one struggles to get a girlfriend and does not have a lot of money?
@@shanepatrick641 You don’t need lots of money to get a girlfriend - that’s a myth promulgated by ‘influencers’ trying to con you. Shave, keep your hair tidy, wear clean, ironed clothes that fit you properly, be friendly and polite. Learn how to pay a compliment without coming across as creepy - don’t say “you’re a total babe”, say “nice earrings”.
When you get a GF, just be nice and not too heavy. Don’t be possessive or jealous. Make an effort to get on well with her family and friends. And when you’re a year in, take it up a notch - ask her to live with you, for example.
That’s all probably bullshit - but it’s the best I’ve got! Good luck, Shane!!
Accidental kids are a blessing. Not a curse. Whoops! Oh, hey, you're awesome!
@@martynmcclure7121 Thank you Martyn! Ha ha 😄 I appreciate the advice 😊
My longest relationship was six months, but we lived too far apart. Broke my heart, best relationship I ever had, I'll struggle for a while but I'll take your advice on board.
(Screenshotted your comment if you don't mind)
@@martynmcclure7121 and DO NOT SIMP😊
There is an important point here regarding how much we need to be sensitive to the hurts and difficulties experienced by others. Life is a challenge, there are many challenges. It isn't what the challenges are, it is how we negotiate them. As a young exhausted widow, with 2 children, working in mental health, I listen to family concerns, marriage concerns, and happy family stories all day. I think it is really important that we come to appreciate others joy, rather than expecting others to be sensitive to our hurts. I am happy to be sensitive to the needs of others, however I have noticed that I feel I am not allowed to be outwardly proud or joyful about, for example, having had children without medical interventions. Apparently this is hurtful to those mothers who are obliged to take pain meds, or other procedures. Having had beautiful, natural births is a huge point of pride and joy for me. I want to be happy for people's joys, including my own. I don't want to oblige others to tend to my broken heart, that is my responsibility. We need a balance here.
Just talk to men, instead of trying to communicate with judgemental progressive females. Everything in life is easier and better if you isolate yourselves from those types.
@@kc6810being breast fed actually does matter for the immune system.
So much so that here if babies are in the hospital they will ask the mother if she is able to bring in her own milk that they will then feed that through the feeding tube.
They actually keep said milk in the freezer.
Of course if it's impossible it is sad and fortunately we do have alternatives for those people.
@@dodopson3211 I agree. It’s very very important for the baby if at all possible.
Well said. The last thing we need more in the west is being more "sensitive".
You’re allowed to be happy; but bragging isn’t polite. It never has been.
I was a dad at 29, purely by accident. Now I'm 42 and not dating, a lot of this resonated with me. So glad I've got my daughter as I'm unlikely to have managed to do so otherwise.
Most eldest children that I know of were accidental. Their parents always thought that they would have children "sometime" but only because everybody else does.
My god, your brain works so fast that you can properly rephrase a question on the spot. Never lose that edge. What ever you're doing now in life, keep doing it. I don't know who you are, I followed a rabbit hole that started with WhatIfAlt and a conversation I was having with a coworker and I shared this because you appeared in my recommended feed after watching just 2, (yes TWO!) population conversations.
100% follow and notifications. Thank you so much for your quick minded conversation, which I thoroughly enjoyed on every conceivable level. I tend to prefer more acedemic and statistical discussions, but this just hit home for me, because a coworker mentioned the subject and I blurted out some nonsense that actually enlightened the conversational topic at that moment before we were rudely interrupted.
Rest assured, I shared this with her for my own selfish reason, in order to continue our deepest of intellectual discussions. Thank you for this.
Thank you sir.
34:30 So true. Women are shamed in society for having children in their late teens/early 20s, when that's suppose to be the most fertile time period for them. Also, it's not viable to have children at that age in today's societal structure, where younger ppl are forced to pursue college/uni degrees and get into debt, and not be able to support kids or even think about having them.
Mothers spend their time in the service of others for the greater good. What if we offered them something similar to the GI Bill? Young women looking to start a family would benefit men as well.
It's not more fertile than the mid or late twenties or even the early thirties.
@@tomasrocha6139 No, it is. Younger the women, the better. The older they get = birth defects!
@@tomasrocha6139
It is safer on her body at least, compared to other years.
@@tomasrocha6139 Not true. Female fertility decreases after age 19. Peak is between 17 and 19. However, how many 17 to 19 year-old are capable of raising childen well in society as it is today? We have the same biology as we did millenia ago but civilization is not the same. Child rearing should not be left to children and that is what most 17-19 year-olds are.
Interesting how even in the absence or high mortality, natural selection finds a way. There's a massive evolutionary chokepoint happening right now because a lot of people aren't reproducing which means the people who ARE reproducing within their own populations will have a huge impact on the future of human traits.
Brilliant comment.👍
Yeah, Amish and Mormons will end up ruling North America.
I don't feel the human race is in danger. But throughout, I was thinking how the large number of young adults taking vows of celibacy and failing to have children, contributed to the fall of Rome.
Also on the future of culture. The values of large family parents will be the values of tomorrow's society. Unless the public schools have their way.
Edit: For better or worse, the future will be VERY religious.
@@dontcallthemliberals3316 the pendulum swing?
Having children comes with an insane responsitiblity. I have highest repect for anyone who does no just get pregnant because they want a child, but build up a stable nest first. Finding a partner you can rely on, having a secure job or at least a secure career level, have a home where you mustn't be afraid to be thrown out, have enough money to take care of the child and to get through unplanned problems like health issues etc. There are so many children living in bad conditions. Poverty. Exhausted parents who can't care for them properly. Single moms and dads who cannot afford the support they need.
And now there come some rich old guys who worry about their pensions and their share values and try to talk girls into young motherhood. We don't give birth to children for economy nor pensions nor soldiers nor working slaves. If you want more children improve the conditions for families. People want to have children, but not at the cost of them living a miserable life.
Well said.
I left a 8 year relationship in 2020 with a person who never wanted to get married or have kids but we got a large house together. I remember feeling like it was a tomb. I didn't want to grow old and die alone with him. I was raised to believe having children young or getting married young would ruin my life. But now I kinda want a family. But it feels so weird to say. Most of the women I know who are my age (late 20's early 30's) with babies are raising them alone. I don't want that. I want my kid to have a father and grandparents and stuff! I personally don't have a family and it's dangerous and lonely. Any emergency I'm in I have to network my friends together to help me. That's not acceptable for raising a child. It's barely reasonable for an adult! Plus, I'm ridiculously poor.
I have a female friend who just had a child, alone, at 32, so she fits in with what you have noticed. As for me, I'm a guy in my 50's who was never particularly in a hurry to have kids, but figured I'd eventually 'meet the right girl' and nature would take its course, and that simply didn't happen. Now it feels ridiculous to still hold out hope that I might find someone to have kids with... does not seem likely at all.
@@impactfoto your 32 yo friend is the worst thing possible.
The problem isn't declining numbers of children being born the problem is the disintegration of FAMILY FORMATION.
I'll bet your friend will be the first to demand special treatment and taxpayer support because ... "I'm a single mom". Draining the life out of working MEN (& women) to support her choice. She's EXACTLY one of the primary causes of how we got into this situation.
Single women shouldn't be allowed sperm donations or taxpayer support nor should "rainbow" people be allowed to adopt.
I am rich. I will marry you and we will make baby.
@@impactfoto50s is too old to be a new Dad. Woodworking.
If you have friends who are single moms, AND you're poor, the chances are high you'll be the same. Don't do it. Kids need a solid father IN the house. It's a 2 person job.
Became a dad at 17, 2nd kid at 21. Would not recommend, but I took my responsibility seriously working hard jobs to provide for them. I’m in my 40s and just now starting the career I wanted while my kids were young. I was hardly ever home with a 70 hr week during most of their childhood. I’m not an antinatalist, just remember that no one asked to be here. (Before you attack me, I love my kids with the very depths of my being and glad they are here).
Sounds like it wasn't the best way to go about it, but you did your best with the way things went. And you should be commended for taking responsibility.
Man you are still quite young and have two adult kids by your side.. Does that feel like having super powers?
Had 4 children early hard work and yes some times felt I wasn’t “there” all the time so so busy working odd hrs etc
… we are now married 45 years ( still happy ) and have eight grand children … all close…. you ve done a great job enjoy the rest of your journey with your family 🕊
Salute
I hear you I think its pretty common, me the wife married at W,21 me,22 first kid about year later. I worked a shit for job for 31 years. I had plans of starting my own business and then surprise kid #1 show's up ,so I stayed were I was, I carried the benefits ,and than you start to build longevity, pay raises, PTO , it made it harder drop everything and start something new in the middle of raising a family, and wasn't just me and wife I had to think about more. The only thing was my kids seen me coming home from work night after night dragging my ass through the door, never really complained in front of them ,but they knew. I think that reflected on them.- That said we had some good fun with kids over the years and me and the wife wouldn't change that for anything.
I'll give my mom this: she told me that if I hadn't had kids by thirty to forget it. It's a do or die thing. Know what you want and know what you end up getting. Of course, it's also important to realize that having a child is not (or should not be!) a single person venture. It's not like going to the local car dealership and buying a mini van. There is someone else involved.
Yep and men are not stepping up to the plate so here we go again it’s all women’s fault damn if you do damn if you don’t. Everyone bags on Single moms especially if you have more than one child so yeah I’d like Christian’s and men to tell me again how it’s all women’s fault we get pregnant
My mom had me at 37 and had my brother at 40. My sister had her first child at 31 and second at 33. Many of my female cousins had their children after 35. One of my family friends just had her child at 39, and her mother had her at 40. It’s the same story with many women I know in my life, and all of their children are perfectly healthy. They waited until they were married. It’s not over at 30. Yes, chances to have children or have healthy children are not as favorable later on, but I know too many women having kids past 30 to believe chances are so abysmal. They ALL say that they don’t regret waiting, but most of the women I know that had kids in their 20s say they wished they’d waited. All that to say, I don’t believe it’s due or die at 30. Don’t give up just yet!
Sorry but you're perpetuating bs. I'm 31. All of my peers are having kids now. Early 30s. I'm around the corner. There is absolutely a point after 30.
I had mine at 30 and 32, after being married for ten years. We weren't ready before then.
@@pinchebruha405 Whose fault is it if women get pregnant?
I know this is an old video, and I NEVER comment on anything but I gotta say something here. Maybe someone like me will se this comment and feel better or some "expert" who can do something about it will realize whats going on.
I am very disappointed about how finances as the problem are glazed right over. Your expert is telling me that my membership to the tennis club took priority over my want to have kids. I spent my younger years working 10-12 hour days in blue collar jobs and could barely afford to support myself. I am talking about something as simple as a flat tire could leave me homeless. No money to fix flat tire>no car miss work >miss work lose job>lose job cant pay rent, ect.
It took 20 years until I was stable enough to even think about being able to support a child. Believe me, I lived poor, cheap cars, cheap rent cheap food cheap clothes. This expert is saying I made bad choices on how I spent my money. I DIDN'T HAVE CHOICES.
I also didn't hear anything about the compounding effects of all the reasons you bring up. So there I was, a blue collar worker making pretty good money finally at 35+ years old. that's when the collage bias kicked in ect.
The only women that were available were, dare I say; badly damaged single mothers, drug addicts, forever party girls and a whole host of women that would have most likely ended up in disaster having a child with.
I am 6'4 and no superstar but I'm certainly not ugly. I was not too picky about a mate but by that age, it seemed that all the "good" ones were taken and all that was left was a group of women who were looking for wealthy move stars or so flawed to the point that having a stable relationship with them was impossible not to mention having kids.
I am now 50+ and I have a wonderful woman who is too old to have children. MY HEART BREAKS, when I see a picture of a little boy with a baseball bat resting on his shoulder on my bosses desk or in other places.
DON'T UNDERESTIMATE THE PLIGHT OF YOUNG MEN. YOUNG MEN MATTER. And if I am not mistaken they are 50% of what it takes to make children. You start this talk by exploring women, women this and women that. And once you get to the fact of men being a provider, which is the bottom line what women are looking for, you guys literally just skip right over it like its not even a real issue. Tennis club member. YOU INSULT ME AND AN ENTIRE GENERATION OF EXPLOITED WORKERS!
This message will most likely be like a piss in the ocean, making no difference. Nobody cares about young men anymore.
A village that doesn't give its young men a place in it will burn it down just to feel its warmth.
I am too old to be burning shit down.
But now sit and talk with you experts and try to figure out why this whole society is going to shit.
No offense, I love you bro. Keep up the fight.
Bottom line for a mirad of reasons is that this world is not a good place to be born into. Humans have made it uninhabitable.
💔 as a cohort female, I HEAR YOU loud and clear. And I lived this pain also as a woman. I have no children because of financial restrictions.
When I listen to elites talk about the declining birth rates, I become irate. It's like they are only worried about cheap domestic labor and future consumers 😢
They have little understanding of the life circumstances we had been GIVEN!!
May God bless us both ❤💙
I spent decades at min wage in NC, it's pitiful. What I earned for 40yrs at work is a joke beyond humor. It was 2.85/hr when I began. It's just now at $7.25. Can anyone live on that....
I hear you. But it is possible. We made massive financial sacrifices are raising 4 young men. I understand the plight of younger men and I advocate for them. I hope my boys will also find a good wife's and have children for a hopeful future. The problem is still undoing the lies told to young women about their fertility.
Good comment, OP. It is amusing that a woman has replied here a few days ago saying that it is possible with sacrifices. She must have glossed over the part where the cost of a flat tyre was between you and the risk of total destitution. I hope you are on firmer ground now. Best of luck.
When I was a teenager in the late 60s my father made an observation to me (more than once) that made more and more sense as I got older. He said, if a man stays single into his 30s he will likely not get married (long term) because he will be so set in his ways that only the perfect woman will do - and there ain't so such thing as the perfect woman. I would guess that, perhaps in a slightly different way that similarly applies to women. You need to be young enough grow together and develop similar interests together.
Wow. Yes, I’ve seen this with my friends who are single.
Nah. I would be ok to marry a woman in her 20s because she hasn't been set in her ways, and if she doesn't have mileage and baggage. I wouldn't marry a woman my age.
We need to stop keeping young people in college then, 4 years is too long. U really can do it in just two.
@@edheldude Yeah same, relationships tend to get stressful and require constant work on both sides. It would be worth it if it was the right woman. I would prefer a woman not raised in western society and does not obsess over social media and is more family oriented. I am 33 but people think I'm in my early 20's. I avoid hook up culture. Not interested in STD's and sleeping with random women I don't care for that have been with who knows how many men. I chase health, self improvement, and living a life worth living
Yep, when young you have still tolerance and haven't yet defined who you are. When you too old you're already set in your way of living and don't have enough patience to tolerate someone else
This topic is really interesting to me because my mom had me, her 1st child, at 40. Thankfully no congenital issues from me being that late haha. My parents wanted a 2nd child and tried for one, but it just didn't happen, so they adopted my sister from India. That adoption was an expensive, long process that a lot of would-be parents aren't able (or willing) to complete. There's another world where that fell through too and I remained an only child. I imagine if my parents had waited just a bit longer, my mother might've been forced join the growing amount of women who'll never have kids. Heavy stuff.
That's really profound. What a beautiful thing they did by adoption, that's not an easy process. My 3rd is adopted, we're hoping to adopt another next year :)
@@sitcomchristian6886 Hope it goes smoothly!
While she was single in the 1970s my wife went to Bolivia to visit a friend. She was offered babies by their mothers if she would simply take them to the US.
At the time the Bolivian government would issue a birth certificate stating that the child was yours and born in Bolivia all for under $100. Infants weren't required to have a passport to enter the US and flew for free. But today things are simpler. Just go to the border and you can purchase a baby for less than roundtrip airfare to Bolivia.
Fascinating conversation. Demographers have been speaking to the dangers of global population decline for years, but got no press whatsoever, so I'm glad to see this here.
One point I take issue with is the equating of "poor" people having large families many years ago to the idea that they still can now. The idea that families aren't willing to do without creature comforts in order to have children may be valid in some respects, but strikes me as short-sighted.
Many years ago, when families were largely self-sustaining, many children were encouraged because they became much needed free labor on family farms. During industrialization, children were sent to work in factories at early ages in orderto help support the family financially. It served a purpose.
We live in a time now where children are in school full-time until the age 18...and then many go on to additional schooling to gain opportunities at better paying careers, while still depending predominantly on their parents for financial support. For roughly two decades, parents support their children completely in a world where wages have been mostly stagnant since the late '70's while the cost of living has risen exponentially. Today's poor families struggle to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table, period. There are few creature comforts to give up, even if they want to. Every child brought into that equation stresses the family unit even more. And we now know there is a direct relation between financial stress in a family and the occurrence of different types of abuse.
In the US, a father of two or more can work full-time at a skilled job and still qualify for food assistance because his income is under the poverty threshhold. Something about that just isn't right.
There are plenty of married couples who don't mind living a simple life, driving beaters for cars, rarely eating out, buying new clothes or taking vacations. But even these couples struggle to justify bringing children into the world, knowing that they won't be able to provide for them in a way that can give them a hand up in the world. They aren't wrong for that choice.
It's a complex issue with no easy answers. 😕
15 to 20 years ago, leftist would spin the conversation of demographic decline in the fall of working age population into a race guard game where they would tell minorities that you were talking about the fact that they would be more minorities in the future than white people and that’s what you are afraid of. They literally wasted 20 years, which is to say a whole generation of workers with their lies and propaganda to shut people up their whole. The world is too populated argument was there to but their arguments for birth control and abortion the whole time they knew this was bullshit from the very beginning. Don’t describe your good motives to other people , they were liars from the beginning and they just wanted to deceive you in order to get what they wanted which was a low population planet which they saw is better for the environment. Most of them were middle class and well off anyway, and it will hurt them a hell of a lot less than it’s going to hurt the poor .
I have heard nothing but panic since this started. However population is still rising in most countries.
I accidentally got pregnant at 20 and had my daughter at 21. The biological dad didn’t stick around but I married a 24 year old man who was ready to have a family. We had a son together, he worked and I stayed at home with the kids. Now our kids are in their late teens. I’m 40 and just about to graduate with my bachelors degree. We’re very happy and are glad we made the decisions we made. I can’t tell you how many people used to tell me I did things all wrong and should’ve gone to school first and got a job. I’m glad I did things in the order I did, even if I didn’t plan it that way.
Tell that man every day you value him. Most guys would never go for the single mom situation. You got lucky.
@ judging from your comments, you have an issue with single moms. Not all men do. We’re lucky to have each other.
Stephen does a great job explaining problems in a polite way. It's difficult to be blunt and explain how people sabotage their own reproduction.
I am so glad to hear this is one of your pet obsessions, I’ve been learning about this for about 6 months now and I feel like we are already passed the point of no return, we just don’t realise it because the true impact hasn’t landed yet.
Blame secularism and atheism, as per La Mettrie and historical atheists: without God ppl devolve into endless short term hedonism
But who is ‘we’. Some entire continents growing exponentially.
@@nonfictionone there’s no “some” continents growing exponentially. A few countries are around a fertility rate of 5 .
That’s high, but not as high as you might think, especially considering infant mortality rates in these countries are much higher than western countries.
Even if a few stay above replacement of 2.1, considering we live in a global economy, these countries at 5 will still suffer.
@@nonfictionone the world works on a balance of trade network’s between countries, when certain countries can’t keep up their end of the bargain the whole system falls behind…
@@nonfictiononename 5
The "cost of living" is a real thing. The 50s-60s people maybe didn't have iphones, but they owned houses in safe neighborhoods with good schools at minimum wage. They also had a less competitive job market and job security. Before that, people had meaningful local communities. Those were destroyed.
And more important the future looked bright
They had to wear shades@@Jaapst
@@ericdale4641 exactly
@@ericdale4641 how is your day Eric ? You wear glasses?
My main reasons are:
1. The cost of childcare.
2. My husband works insane hours for the nypd (he has no say regarding his schedule and overtime) because of that my life would be one of a married single mother. If I could afford to be a stay at home mom, I might still consider it but that’s not the case.
3. How humans are treating the planet.
I'm 36 and a mother to a beautiful daughter, it's the most fulfilling thing I will ever do. Raising children right is hard but it's the most joyful and rewarding thing you'll ever do. This sounds like a daft inspirational quote but it's true. Your horizons expand considerably when you become a parent.
Wise words
But what if you want to be a 3x dog mom
Amazing. It is a very interesting and difficult topic. I see many "old" women having children at 40+ and suffer the lack of energy and the frustration that comes with It. My sister, for example. I even notice It myself when I play with my niece. This is something some people, men and women, do not take into account, specially if you don't have your parent's help.
⬆ ʜɪᴛ ᴍᴇ ᴜᴘ......💬❤❤.
@@Telekeellol
This is so much B.S. We've become selfish, narcecists. My wife and I are both 80 years old now, but we were young once. We got married at 19 while we were still in the military. Our dream was simole, to stay together forever, start a family and have a bunch of beautiful, healthy, childern. We did't dream of millions of dollars or Corvettes. I guess it's ok to do so, but for most of us, our best parenting years are early on and they don't last long . We had six, two boys and 4 girls, all educated and doing well. We somehow managed it. Credit to my wife, wisest person I know. Now we're hoppeing to make a dignified exit when our time arrives, without becoming a burden to them or anyone else.
This is exactly right. I'm 38 and about to have our 3rd child. I know people making 200k a year that say it's too expensive, but can spend 500$ a night drinking. People have become incredibly selfish and society endlessly caters to it. The old Mark Twain adage is the lead here about people being convinced they've been lied to. It's truly heartbreaking. Even worse is the ones that are so miserable and selfish they sabotage relationships of others or chase them into getting abortions.
🙏🤗
Agree, I find it hard to sympathize to these hypergamic women, because I've been there, going on dates with ladies and they drop you like a rock when you don't drive a nice enough car, have a nice enough house, when you're not a CEO or movie star. You consider yourself too important to be bothered with anyone, so we'll leave you and your 7 cats to ponder how someday Mr Right will come along.
@@castirondude 80%of women are chasing top1% of men. Unfortunately those men only want to F around or settle with a hot 21 year old.
I’m a veteran myself and I’m expecting my first any day now. My wife and I both want what you seem to have. I’m the youngest of 7 and she’s the 5th of 6 so a large family is not foreign to us. God Bless thanks for your service!
The cost of living is so insane there were times I was losing weight so bad because I was broke. I can’t imagine what I would’ve done with kids. I was young and so worn out from life and I was just taking care of myself. It’s crazy to see friends I had with kids making it. Often said, what am I doing wrong.
I was 23 when I had my eldest and the shame that came smashing down on me from most women in our extended friend circle was unbelievable. The one that still rings in my ears was "But you're still a baby! You're just a baby, how can you be considering having a child!!??" From my husband's boss' girlfriend.
Lucky for me. I have always had my own mind and always know I wanted a lot of kids. My husband and I now have 5 beautiful children and it was of course the right decision, but that shocked face and the just point blank infantilization of me, a 23 year old WOMAN was just so weird.
I can't imagine most other young women holding up under a deluge like that and deciding to start a family anyway. In fact, out of my 22 cousins and every friend I grew up with only one cousin, which is a kindergarten teacher, and one friend, a conservative Vietnamese immigrant, have children. That's it. And all of us are in our late 20s to early 40s now.
Even today, 23 isn't a crazy age to have a child. A bit early but nothing crazy.
I think in the UK renting is not secure enough to start a family. My landlords have sold the property and served me notice on a few occasions. I've basically been on the verge of homelessness at this point. I have a good job but that doesn't guarantee you anything these days. My child has had to move school 4 times because of this.
researchers consistently fail to address the magnitude of this issue.
People ultimately need love and validation. When a man doesn't matter to a woman, when she doesn't gaze at him with a loving smile, tell him she wants him/needs him, that he matters to her.
A lot of guys have never had that.
This will cause disillusionment/isolation/soul sadness and mental health issues in men. No amount of material things, por* will be able to replace that.
The problem in the west is 2 fold. Incels can't get a woman and the ones that do get one, end up in divorce/breaking up or being cheated on and losing more than the lady. So they swear off relationships and end up lonely all the same. (Mgtow)
Both have the effect of creating lonely, angry, atomised ppl and broken society with plummeting birth rates. And can spell the end of that society.
What are we seeing in the west now?
Falling sperm counts, falling testosterone levels, births, marriage, anomie and a rapidly ageing society, with catastrophic debt levels.
White ppl used to have close family bonds but now they no longer keep ties with family and send old ppl to homes.
Jobs for life are a thing of the past, from where they used to form friends.
White ppl lost their matchmaking culture and used to marry form within their own tried and tested social circle.
With all that now gone, internet dating and cold approaching/PUA random women that u know nothing about is the way. Which can be dehumanising and toxic.
Peace
@@kamrudkd well said.
@Cord Fortina The male to female sex ratios in the UK is 1.05 male to every 1 female.
That's in the age category of 15 to 44.
Now there are approximately 27 million ppl in that age category.
So that means that there are approximately 675,000 EXCESS males in the UK in that age category of 15-44.
Not even SINGLE men but EXCESS men.
What will its effects be?
With figures like this is it any wounder that females report feeling harassed in society and feeling unsafe.
From the sad random/stranger murder of sabrina Nessa, aslingh Murphy, Sarah everhard.
To drinks spiking, to ME TOO
To
Rise in London record teenage murders to rise in riots to political extreme movements.
The EXPLOSION OF ONLY FANS.
Could this be related?
The standing British army is approximately 83,000
And we have approximately 675,000 EXCESS MEN.
That could mean that 5% of men in this category could possibly never find a long-term monogamous relationship.
🤔
@@kamrudkd you fail to understand London's record teenage murders are mainly because of the rise of single mother household's, most criminals in fact were raised by single mothers. It has nothing to do with there being excess men. "females report feeling harassed in society and feeling unsafe"' - true, but men are still way more likely to be victims of violent crime. Also an excess of 675,000 really isn't much really considering men are more likely to be gay and have disabilities than women are.
@mimimi queweq no your facts are wrong.
Men repot being gay less than women.
In the younger cohort of millennials and gen z are more women that identify as lgbtq.
This means that there are fewer heterosexual women in that cohort.
There are now published figures on it, one even from the UK 2021 census.
Just look it up
One of the things to consider is that a lot of people are priced out of owning their own home where they can start a family. There has to be a psychological challenge of starting a family without having a roof over your head that is yours.
He basically mentions something like this in his documentary "Birthgap". The decline in births in most of these countries coincided with big economic or social shocks. Essentially, more and more people said 'what's the point in bringing a child into a world/society like this?'.
One of the most peculiar and interesting things about the post war era, in my opinion, is that we got told often that we'd never had it so good ('society is safer, more prosperous etc etc') and yet much of that period coincided with an increase in childlessness (an indication people are pessimistic about the future).
Yeah but everyone also has a new car and a new iPhone every year and eats out several times a week.
@@forzanerazzurri2339
The childlessness trend started in many countries before these over-consumption trends really took hold. The "stop spending on cars, iPhone, take aways" is a canned, overused response to this problem.
I'd wager even that the increase in over-consumption might be at the effect rather than the cause of increasing childlessness. In that people whose societies go through those economic and social upheavals choose over-consumption because they've decided to forego childrearing.
As in, 'if I'm not going to have the particular and deeper fulfillment that comes from childrearing -because who in their right mind wants to bring children into this society - then I might as well have hedonic fulfillment'.
@@argh2945 that's a really good point, over-consumption may indeed just be a symptom. Even the Philippines, a relatively poor country with a strong conservative family orientation, anti-abortion laws and 90% Catholic already has a fertility rate of 1.9 in 2022 well below the fertility rate from 2.7 in 2017. No matter how conservatives, the right or the likes of Jordan Peterson try to downplay it, the economic incentives to have smaller families is just too strong in this globalised industrial capitalist economy.
@@rodjayoma7085
Yes, the same reasons keep being used over and again (such as loss of traditional values/religion or over-consumption or lack of state support for families etc) but this childlessness trend has taken hold in both liberal and socially conservative countries, in developed and developing countries, in ones with high levels of state support for child care (Scandinavian ones for example) and ones with low levels of state support for child care (Japan for example).
Society has evolved into a requirement that in order to build a home together and pay bills most people on lower incomes (who historically had the most children) need to both work..Just to survive. Putting off having children through necessity not choice. One wage used to be enough..now it's two wages. Falling birthrate is a direct casualty of this brave new world. It's not going to change because everything is monetised for profit maximisation and incomes are too low for many to contemplate starting a family.
I was married, had 2 children. But have not seen my children in twenty years. When the wife divorces and then alienates the father out of the children life, you can't do a thing about it. Change the custody laws to 50 50 if you want a better society. Women get full custody 90% of the time.
5 years elementary, 3 years middle, 4 years high school could be done in half that time. I still remember sitting in classrooms looking out the window wondering when my life was going to start. I'm 45 and never married and or had children.
Yes I agree u think we should finish school at 16 and go to college early.
Why did you not have kids?
I think something went wrong inside me during those high school years....
I'm in the exact same situation. Mid 40's, never married, no children. I have a high paying job, a lot of stuff, lots of investments, I want for nothing. But I question what am I doing. What's my purpose? To have all this to have a great retirement at 60? A family to share everything with is what I need.
I have 7 kids. Some tough stretches financially. No fancy house, vehicles or holidays. But every day facebook reminds me (thru pictures) i have a lot of fond memories. I just have 15 year old twin boys left and the caboose. My 10 year old girl. Went by so fast it seemed. I have no regrets.
if i can barely pay rent with 4 roomates, than how am i going to provide for a family? this whole conversation revolves around how sad it is that women don't get to have kids... completely ignores that men are a part of this, let alone that men have their own wants, desires and needs... men in my generation are entirely disposable and replaceable
Get out of the big cities. Life is very cheaper outside of those large urban centres. There's a big price to pay for all that convenience and living where it's "hip".
they always ignore the men's side, many men are not having families either. In my experience women treat men like expandable ATM's, i'd rather just stay single and enjoy life the way i want to.
@@ickster23 Sure, now if only more rural areas had great job markets, so we'd have more money left in our pockets afterward.
@@skylinefever Lots of good jobs in the rural areas. Just not the "sit around pushing papers and attending meetings" type of work.
This vid is meant as scare tactics for women. Men are single bachelors but women have to be controlled 🥴
Thanks
A Japanese widower was being interviewed about the living conditions in their society said that loneliness and isolation were bad because in their society they are not allowed to socialize or speak to those not on the same level of the hierarchy they have achieved. So this man will die alone and someone will eventually find his body due to the stink. How sad is this?
It seems to be how society has aligned incentives everywhere.
The dissolution of extended family members living and working together has made life lonelier and more difficult. Independence and nuclear families has a cost. @@jmanakajosh9354
stupid comment. Loneliness is now prevelant even among 30 year olds. Especially man.
There are many factors that contribute to a low birth rate. I will mention some that come to mind. 1. Divorce laws. Ask any professional male about marriage these days. Like me, many, if not most, are children of divorced parents. I saw exactly how much financial damage it caused my father. That was 2 generations ago. These days, divorce is the norm and the amount confiscated assets from men far larger. Few men are reckless enough to trust a modern woman with half his wealth and half his future earnings. Divorce laws provide a massive financial incentive for women to game marriage. 2. Post-agricultural economy. Outside of agricultural societies, children are a pure deadweight from an economic perspective. Post-agricultural societies do not have large farmhouses that can fit over 5 children. Other than on farms, children have no economic value. 3. Mobility, population density, and ubiquitous communication. It is difficult to settle down with a person, especially for women, since their pool of potential partners could be in the thousands or tens of thousands of men. There is always the illusion (often the reality) of someone better out there. 4. There are many work options for women. This relates to education as well as work. Women's most fertile years are spent in school. Once they graduate, there are no serious social pressures to settle down. There is a school to work to retirement pipeline that, in a heavily consumerist society, makes children a financial and consumption burden in many ways. 5. Loss of community child rearing. One reason for the explosion of rebellious women in the 1960's was the simple fact that no one likes being stranded alone to raise children in the suburbs. Let's face the reality that being a suburban mother is stifling experience. I say this as a conservative. I admit that the life of a stay at home mom in the suburbs is not appealing. In previous times, people lived in groups of a hundred or more and communally raised children. Women used to be in proximity of potential aunts, grandmothers, and in-laws to help watch children and to provide social interaction with adults. In our mobile age, we live hundreds of miles from parents and siblings. Raising children has become a solitary activity for the suburban mom.
What is my conclusion? As long as we expect the living standards of a post-agricultural society, there is literally nothing the government could or should do to somehow mandate that people have children with the exception of completely eliminating current divorce laws. Keeping the state out of marriage would provide the only possible incentive for highly educated and financially secure men to return to the alter without the virtual guarantee of confiscation of their wealth.
In the short run, and with more recent developments such as dating apps, substantial civilizational and economic decay, expect the birth rate to continue to decline for all working people.
In all the above discussion, I did omit one obvious, consistent exception. Government subsidized single motherhood will always be a source of fertility - but only among the dependent classes. That is itself catastrophic since, by definition, dependent people contribute nothing to the economy while their children usually help destabilize it in the future. Expect urban centers all over the welfare state world to become so dysfunctional as to become unviable - leading to mass starvation in the coming decades.
It is truly silly to make a case that marriage and children make sense for employed people in contemporary economic, legal, and social circumstances. I wish it were not so but I am too rooted in reality to think otherwise.
⬆ ʜɪᴛ ᴍᴇ ᴜᴘ....…💬❤❤.
Jesus what a great summary and comment
Found this more insightful that the podcast
@@KC-kr8qe Indeed.
Your first point just sounds like some MGTOW nonsense. Marriage rates have only really declined for lower class men. The idea that men with means are rejecting marriage in droves to protect their assets is not at all reflected in the data of who actually gets marred. Marriage has pretty much become exclusive to higher class people particularly higher class men. For women education level and class status are less correlated with a likelihood of ever marrying though there is still a correlation. The most likely people to marry in the US are college or more educated men and women and this cohort also has the lowest divorce rates. Married women have more children than unmarried women so it can be assumed that increasing the marriage rate particularly for young women would increase fertility rate problem is young women don’t seem keen on marrying down. Young women are generally not interested in marrying men with lower education or earnings than themselves they tend to go for their equal or higher. So if men are not graduating and if they are dropping out of the workforce women especially young women are not going to be interested in marrying them and the marriage rate will continue to fall along with the birth rate.
1:19:42 "There is gonna be fewer and fewer people companies to hire" - if that would be the case then the real wages should be going higher. And the throuth is that wage growth is lower than inflation =real wage growth is negative. This is one of the example when the economy is shouting at you that there is abundance of workers / people in the world. I could continue with the housing market, but I think you get my point.
At 46:50 they're making the same mistake too. My great grandparents had a dosen children, then their kids COLLECTIVELY had less than a dozen. My great grandparents had a farm, my grandparents had gas stations. Loosing agriculture changes the economics of having children.
But companies won’t be able to grow as much because there will be less people to sell to.
@@susanarojo3906 That doesn't mean the the quality of life is going down. I see that as like an only child who inherit the family tree's wealth... wealth / GDP could stagnate while GDP per capita could go up.
I would say its because the standard of living is plummeting and has been for a while. We peaked out and plateaud for a couple of decades and then slowly at first and then increasingly things started to get worse and people see that trend and realise theres a long way to fall
As a parent of four, the sad thing is I have no grandchildren and may never have any grandchildren at all. I, too, have felt this grief...
My friend is one of three sisters, none of whom have children and are all almost 40, their parents so wanted grandkids. It's worst for my friend because ever since she was little she's wanted to be a mother more than anything, but cancer put a stop to that. Such a shame.
Don't be greedy. You had 4 kids.
I’m surprised there wasn’t more discussion about the state of the economy, cost of living crisis, housing market bubble etc affecting this topic. Having children is very expensive, most young people can barely even imagine affording a house, nevermind affording a house plus children. It surely is a major driver of this.
Yet somehow people during and after hellish war times in way worse conditions with completely uncertain future were able to have more children than we do.
Really sounds like we are searching for reasons not to have kids
A total collapse of the economy in the first countries to face this problem? New solutions or a totally new economic model?
Very good point.
But I swear poorer nations have a lot more kids and their position financially, relative to western nations is much worse. I think the financial crisis is just a convenient excuse.
If we really had hard conversations with our old people we could go back to multigenerational living. It sucks, but no babies ever is way, way worse.
One of the best episodes so far. Thanks Chris for doing this!
The west has below replacement level fertility for 4 decades now. Ppl aren't having kids.
There are more old white ppl than children. More white ppl die then are born in most countries. About a third of the population is over 65.
Marriage and family formation is at all time lows. Children out of wedlock all time highs. Now more black kids go to university then whites as a proportion. White boys from poor backgrounds do the WORST in schools.
More young white ppl identifies as LGBTQ+/trans now. (It's legal in the west, so I'm comfortable with that). But they statistically have fewer children.
There is huge national debts/gdp. They have been fighting wars in muslim countries iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria and quiet wars in African muslim countries. (What did they achieve? Why did they truly go to all these wars? Who will truly benefit?.....ohh you, your children and grandchildren (if you had any) will pay for these wars from YOUR tax money)).
So with all this going on, in 20 short years time who will look after the old in the west? Where will the young ppl be, to work and pay taxes to support the NHS, adult social care, pensions etc....there will be MORE old white pensioners then young white ppl that work and pay TAXES.
Where will the new consumers, borrowers and economy stimulatetors come from............
If not from the immigrants and the children of the ethnic ppl and Muslims?
Is ALL this muslim ppl fault.
What do you think?
Amazing episode.
40 or 45 years ago a family with just the father working could support a family, buy a house, a nice car, etc... That's a rarity now. Who has the time as well as the money.
Maybe women don't necessarily consider it consciously, but the idea of raising kids alone is not pleasant and modern society's attitude toward matrimony and divorce are major factors here. I realize women initiate divorce disproportionately, but it is a societal attitude in both men and women that makes so toxic. In my day (the 80's) it was just what you did, we all got married and had kids, the sad bachelor or the young spinster was the exception.
Considering that only approximately 40% of males become fathers, I suspect there were more sad bachelors than you were aware of back in the 80’s.
@@gipgap4 Maybe so, but not among my group of friends. I can think of only a handful of the guys who are not fathers.
Old Stefan Molyneux said it before he was banned. Paraphrasing, something like 'animals don't breed well in captivity' talking about this issue once
Our corporate oligarchs want future wage slaves and cannon fodder, and aren't getting any.
Huh. That's interesting.
I've long thought that it is the nihilism and the fear, rather than genuine pragmatic concern, surrounding the economics of having children. I think a lot of people are simply unwilling to make even a slight reduction in their personal standard of living in order to have kids.
civilization>barbarism
@@hunterbidensaidslesion1356 this is true. I even contemplated on my own perspective about this and decided I won't get a relationship let alone get married until I reach a certain level of lifestyle. Lucky for me I am a man that has a higher fertility window. Problem is, most women think foolishly they can do the same and pay the price for their life choices.
Look at him blaming people for cost of living being preposterous
Look at housing costs
College costs
Healthcare costs
Vehicle prices
Food that isn't complete poison
Right. Who paid him to do this research?
@@Snake369 why do you presume there is only one cause ?
Go read the " jaffe memo " a list of ways planned Parenthood brain stormed in 1969 to potentially get people to have less kids
They had lots of ideas
Also go read " NSSM 200 " and realize this has all been planned since 1973 if not earlier
All the concern about population decline is becos corps and govts are losing avenues to make money becos of reduced work horses and consumers. They tried fixing it though immigration put people are turning against this ! If people had decent working conditions and pay, everybody would love to raise children, but that would go against the govt and corporate Agenda!
I find it odd that the comments all point to delayed child bearing because of financial insecurity but a living wage that supports a stay at home mother is never really discussed.
As long as women are working it will not be the norm for a man to make enough by himself to support a family. There is a reason these trends started in the 70s and it rhymes with Weminism
A third to a half of all Europeans died during the Black Death of 1348-1350. The result was a dramatic rise in the standard of living for the survivors. There was more for everyone.
Oh yeah....things were great. But just a couple centuries later
The Turks rampaged and enslaved up the Balkans all the way to the gates of Vienna. Districts in Hungary, Serbia, Wallachia were almost wiped out.
In 17thC large swathes of Germany were depopulated during the 30 Year's War.
I wish I could have started having kids earlier! I got married at 25 (I'm the female). We started trying for a baby when I was 26. Didn't conceive for 11 months (I blame the IUD). Then of course, pregnancy lasts nearly a year, so when I gave birth I was 28. We've kept the kids pretty close together and have 3 now. I'm turning 33 this year, but we're hoping for another before getting off "baby island" lol
Very well done😊
Kinda hard to have kids when most of the population find each other far too ooglee to date. 90% of women want the top 10% of men
❤
Not everyone want to do same
"didn't conceive for 11 months"... In the grand scheme of things, you're really going to complain about this "delay"? Many people struggle for YEARS to conceive... Count yourself lucky.
I have told my grown up kids if they want to have kids have kids, if they don’t then don’t. Both in long term relationships and have both agreed they don’t want kids. When I asked they both said why would I. Money is short, trying to save for a house, continual bad news and conflicts in the world. In addition to costs of everything going through the roof. Honestly I can’t blame them
Correction, Chris @36:15 ~ Women are the gate keepers to sex; men are the gate keepers to relationships. This is an important point because it is one of the several pillars to the culture/population problems in modern societies.
I love how Stephen loves all people and shows great empathy. I also love how he believes he “lost his accent”, but sounds very Irish.
I refused to have kids because jobs pay us like slaves and my salary can’t keep up with cost of living.
I refused to get married because I’m broke as is and divorce rates are at an all time high. And I couldn’t afford to give anyone half of nothing.
I’ve also decided that living my life and not worrying about a job is much more fulfilling. I could work and be poor or just sit home and be poor. I choose to sit home
And the cost will be an unfulfilled life and your lineage stopping with you. To the victor go the spoils
@@JamalW239 that was actually the plan. I’m in this world not of this world and I don’t want MY children to experience this disaster people call “life”.
@@JamalW239 "the victor"?
Damn....
@@JamalW239you cannot live on through your children, and there is no gauruntee they will even like you! Many of those "relationships" are more pain than pleasure, especially after you and their mom break badly...
When I was very young, I remember many very good intentioned people (in my family and community) telling me, ‘Don’t get a girl pregnant or it’ll ruin your future’. I was petrified to get a girl pregnant’. Then by the time I was in a position to have a decent job (after all my schooling was done) and my wife and I tried to have a baby it wasn’t working out. We then were told by medical professionals that a woman’s eggs are “old” by about 34 Y.O. ! We spent many years secretly depressed, desperate and looking for help. Every time someone asked me “if” or “why” I didn’t have a child it would almost put me in panic. It was awful. Our friends kids were growing up…we were stuck…..it sucked, A LOT. This went on for about 14 years. Finally, we found the help we needed, payed a lot of money and got very lucky. But there was no way we were going to be able to have another child due to my wife’s issues. We wanted 2 or 3 kids. But, I feel I am the luckiest guy to have my child. I wished we started a lot younger.
Sorry it’s a long story despite leaving out 95% of the story
I never had planned or desired to have kids when I was young. After getting married I got my wife pregnant. That boy is now 14 years old and I do not regret it at all. We had another child as well because we wanted our older child to have someone in this life for after we pass. I do not regret that decision ever. I am glad to be able to have passed my knowledge on to the next generation.
Great stuff as always, Chris! Your channel is very underrated, but I am confident it will continue to grow in popularity because your subject matter is both interesting and important. Keep up the good work, brother! Glad to have you in Texas!
When my niece married in her early 20’s, she wondered about waiting to have children. I told her
1) there is never a “convenient” time to have children,
2) the older you are, the harder it gets.
I told her she would be better off having them early, regardless of circumstance.
They have two beautiful girls now and is not yet 30. :)
Child rearing is more costly to women. We sacrifice more. On top of that, society does not value moms and homemakers. It’s all about the career and the ability to make money.
That’s absolutely nonsense.
this interview is so good. Chris, the people you bring in and the way you put themes forward is just on top of everything else theres's in here
A big part is the people who had that first child but where Not planning for it to happen and once it did, they got married and just kept on making a family. Today, it is more possible than ever to avoid that first "Mistake".
In a world where people live like the second and not like the first we won't exist. Mistakes are to be learnt from to not repeat. Having a child is rarely a mistake. The mistake is having sex thinking a child couldn't be the end result. People don't like to be honest with themselves and lie unfortunately. It's sad. Sometimes you have to hold a mirror to the ape in the zoo just to see what happens. They generally toss excrement to make it go away.
Children are super expensive to have when you cannot afford a home or somewhere to live as a family. The costs of a child is said to be £100000 over the time until 18. Debt is a huge albatross around the necks of young people, especially the STUDENT DEBT of tens of thousands minimum.
I live in Canada. I have 3 kids and my wife is pregnant with our 4th child. I work really hard to provide for my family. You can always find a reason not to have kids. But if you make up your mind you will find ways to provide for them and your wife.
@@larcm3bro at this point you’re a donkey on a plantation… wait until she says she’s not happy and reams you in family court. I pray for your body and soul!
Wow thats about an extra £5600/yr. Not sure about the UK but an extra $5600/yr is pretty reasonable to raise a whole other human
If only we still had a village. Instead the nuclear family leaves each to their own.
@@runswithraptorsdon’t compare these two countries.
UK is an absolute sh**hole compared to most of the US.
Nearly £6k is a lot of money here. Outside of London specialist white-collar jobs that require 3-5 years of experience pay £30k pre-tax and that’s considered better than many of them 😂😂😂
Why is this a bad thing? We built our societies with far less people than we have now. I think the banks and the bureaucracies are worried because the higher the population, the more money they make from taxes and interest.
Horrifying what he spoke of regarding elderly abuse, however this is happening not just to those without families but many with family that don’t bother with them and have shunted them off to a care home - out of sight, out of mind. This is v prevalent here in the UK. So having children is no guarantee of love and care in your old age, most adult children too busy with work, children and their social life, and as women now out at work no one to look after the elderly relatives(it’s overwhelmingly women who do the caring of sick/young/old). Humanity is on a very dark path.
The elderly are also living past when they would have died without medical intervention, meaning a longer and more difficult care time for adult children. Also, sometimes care home are the only options. My grandfather was still strong as a bull when he had dementia. He couldn't be cared for by any female relatives--he injured my grandmother one night during an episode. No male relatives were interested in the job.
My mum's childhood friend is being abused and put in a home by her own children who have stolen everything she has from her....
@@b.biscuit6424 It happens a lot - this is something people should be aware of
My mother was so excited to become a grandmother. It was something she always had imagined she would one day be. My brother never had children because he was never able to find a girlfriend. I got a later start at it but have successfully had 3 kids. My mom is a wonderful grandmother, and my kids have really given her a new and exciting adventure in her life... she has several friends around her age. All had children of their own (2 or more), but she is the only one with grandkids. Her friends all grieved for the grandchildren they will never have. They all expected to become grandparents, but each one had to come to terms with the reality that would not be part of their experience and all experienced depression around it. I feel so deeply for not only their children who wanted families but never made it work, and for their parents who will never get to have a sleepover baking cookies with their grandchildren.
Exhibit A in why we do not put expectations on ourselves and our loved ones like that and instead appreciate life for what we do have 🙏
The bottom line is mothers are punished for being mothers.
Last year, I left work 4 hours early to take my daughter to the doctor. I was given a point that cost me 10 hours of bonus time. So, thats 14 hours and i lost overtime pay at the end of the week for the 4 hours.
I was exhausted that day from being up since 4am. I had workrd 6 hours before taking my daughter to the doctor. After seeing the doctor, i had to go wait for a prescription. Then i had to provide dinner and do laundry because her sickness was messy. Then up at 4am again....just to find out my male coworker was promoted.
I was friends with my coworker who was promoted. He bragged about not paying child support. He said, one mother just raised the kid alone but the other mother had him locked up. After being locked up, his gf would pay to have the warrant removed and that covered child support. The next month, he wouldn't pay until going to jail. He said it went on for months until he got caught cheating on his gf and left the state. His main goals in life is weed and azz. This is who my employer promoted.
I quit my job after finding a new one. I told my boss that im sick of working my azz off for him to promote a man who spends him time chatting me up.
While im losing time at work and stressing because I'm trying to work 60 hours a week to support my daughter, my ex-husband only pays $436 a month in child support and eat steak and drinks beer at the bar every night.
When a mother isnt receiving child support and she asks for help, child support recovery immediately asks her for money.
When i retire, i won't receive the same ss payments as men due to less money earned while having children. My childless men friends will have it made. But im the one who has raised 3 productive members of society who are paying taxes and i have 2 grandchildren that will be working in the future.
Kids see what their mothers go through and are opting out. Just yesterday, I asked my daughter if she has plenty of birth control pills. He employer doesn't offer insurance and we are stressing over how we will be getting them in the future. She asked a coworker how she gets hers. The coworker told her she has a baby and that baby qualifies her for govt healthcare. My daughter said f no!!!! Her coworker is trapped. Our society will always put her down. She will struggle between needing help from the govt and trying to work overtime. Because when a single mother makes good money, they tax the hell out of her.
Ive seen men make comments about how easy we have it as women. I don't see any of them trading places and working and raising kids alone. At Christmas time, womem at work were fighting for overtime. Men just laughed and said they dont need it. Of course not, women are having children but men are childless.
So you are already instilling in your daughter that a lasting loving marriage with children is not possible. Some fantastic guidance on how to be bitter.
After all, if she were to get pregnant you immediately assume she's a single mother.
You seem to hate men and focus only on competing with them. Men and women were built to compliment each other not compete with and hate each other.
I’m raising my kids, my wife has an amazing job. It’s tough but I love it. It’s interesting how most of my male friends still wouldn’t consider it. I’ve pointed out that if they have children, raising them is actually investing in them and their future. Some people see their kids as a hindrance, which makes me wonder why they had them in the first place
Im so sorry to read this 😢 society won’t offer any support for women to have kids and then blame women for not having kids anymore. That’s why I’m never having any kids. Society doesn’t give a shit about women 😢
I’m so sorry about what you have had to deal with. So awful. Are you in the US? Because USA labor laws are some of the WORST in the 1st world when it comes to supporting mothers. In most European countries women receive very generous maternity leave and healthcare benefits, I think in Sweden women basically get like two years of paid leave. So, lack of support for working moms doesn’t seem to be the crux of the declining birth rate, at least in Europe.
Find a different environment. In a church of 400, there are 4 divorced moms who are supported emotionally and physically when necessary. The rest are married couples, 90% of the women stay home and raise the family. The 20 year olds are marrying and having babies young with one income. It can still be done, just not in a big city or in a community of affluent people where the brands you buy or where you travel are judgments of your worth.
The idea that having children prevents loneliness as an older adult is luficrous. My grandparents spent most of their time alone and definitely didn't love each other as I found out later. Theu didn't survive on the love of their children. We are all individuals, and we will all one day die alone. Children do t prevent this.
When taking care of our dying mother, only myself and my sister showed up out of 7 siblings. Having kids to caretake in age is a fantasy.
He is so right about starting your career later on. I have met so many women who had unplanned pregnancies in their teens/early twenties and who had a family first. I meet these women on CPD days and it seems like they did it right to me. My Chinese neighbour also thinks it's insane that we in Europe start our careers first. She says in China it's school/college/childbearing/career.
One thing I'll say in terms of women focusing on 'career first' is that in companies where the majority of hiring decisions are made by middle-aged men, a lot of those men will have a strong preference to recruit, and promote, young women rather than men or older women - this is very obvious when you have a close look at hiring and promotion patterns.
In such cases it could be beneficial for a young women to use this to 'get her foot in the door' in terms of recruitment and early stage promotions, and then to bail after a few years to have children, rather than to entirely forego the privileges which are currently afforded to young women as far as recruitment and early promotion goes.
My sister got pregnant unplanned at 20 and she kept it. She deferred university for a couple years but then she got her teacher's degree and is doing great in her career. She has two other kids now. If she had waited for things to be "perfect" before starting a family she could have no kids at this point. We have to stop thinking that children ruin our lives and career potential.
30:00 minutes of the video: "There are 50 different ways to be childless". For me, it was the other side of the coin. Single motherhood, ridiculous divorce rate is what kept me from having children. I was the product of a single mother, the poverty of welfare, the selfishness and victimhood my mother portrayed turned me off to a higher degree than I could have imagined. The cost of having children was 1st in my mind without question. In university I took classes in family science and the statistics speak for themselves and I just couldn't take the chance. Currently, the horror of divorce court for men is murderous. 2 of my cousins of commited suicide over it.
Should have come to Poland - men in Poland don't pay child support as a rule. They punish women for not putting up with their BS, bc divorced woman in Poland remains single and poor for the rest of her life.
@@zumurudlilitomg that is insane 😢 no wonder why women don’t want to have kids anymore
Im 30 and going to have my first child in a month. In my diverse female group of 29-38 year olds, I am the second person having a child. All besides one, are childless but don’t want to be. It’s what you mentioned, the time is not right, the male partner is not ready/doesn’t want children, not having a partner, wanting to be financially stable first… and many people overlook, that even young and healthy individuals can struggle to get pregnant. Infertility is common, and having stressful and demanding career doesn’t help.
What were they doing between 19 and 29?
@@stevo728822 most of them just don’t notice that time flies when you study, work and travel. Moving for a job, having a demanding schedule that doesn’t allow time for dates, studying abroad, traveling for work, paying off debts etc. Even when the odds are in your favor and everything is perfect, you still need to prioritize family planning with your partner and set up deadlines. Many of my friends were stuck in long term relationships with wrong men. Even up to 10+ years and the man is still not ready to have children because of xyz... You break up, and then can’t find a suitable partner anymore. Or you think you have, and you waste another 2 years with a man who in the end can’t commit to children, needs more time, leaves for a younger woman etc… it feels like we have a serious culture of individualism and indecisiveness here in west… 🤷♀️
@@maris7what men are they dating? I know plenty of guys who want to have kids and are established but the women are chasing the dudes who won't settle down. It's their fault and now they reap the rewards of childlessness.
Congratulations! Excellent points.
They're unaffordable for most people.