i think i agree with most of these except zeff. zeff back in the day may well have been as strong as luffy is now or stronger but we simply dont know. zeff nowadays may not even win against buggy because he lost his leg. current zeff should be much lower. other than that this list is actually pretty good
Good point about Zeff, and I do appreciate your concern. However, I'd like to argue a little here. You mentioned that Buggy might win against Zeff, but in my opinion, that’s unlikely. Zeff is Sanji’s master, and even with one leg, his reputation as the legendary 'Red-Leg Zeff' and his survival of the Grand Line prove just how skilled and powerful he was. Sanji learned his fighting style directly from Zeff, and at that point in the story-even up until the Water 7 Saga-Sanji hadn’t surpassed the man who taught him everything he knows. Zeff’s experience and mastery give him an advantage not just over Sanji but possibly even over Zoro and Luffy at that time. It’s also worth noting that Zeff trained Sanji after losing his leg, so even then, he wasn’t far weaker. He’s not necessarily twice as strong as Sanji, but the fact that he could kick Sanji around during training shows he’s still a level above. Of course, this is just my opinion, not a fact. But based on what we’ve seen, I feel his minimum strength should match Sanji’s, with a maximum of around twice Sanji’s level-somewhere in the range of 510-1020, with an average of about 765. Even as an older man, Zeff is still fast enough to stop bullets, like when he blocked Pearl’s attack. That kind of speed and strength shouldn’t be underestimated! And I do think Zoro's master (dojo) would be similar, Zoro does not surpass his master
@GiraffeReactionsZone you make some good points about the training for sure. However Zeff did choose to retire after the loss of his leg and openly stated that he can't fight anymore. He probably takes care of your average fodder without issue but he was taken down by Gin. Someone current Sanji simply wouldn't lose to. I do agree that Zeff in his prime must have been very strong and zeff with one leg is still a dangerous man but i genuinely think that if sanji, zoro or luffy had challenged Zeff in Baratie they would have won. Sadly there is simply no real way to prove either side of this discussion so all we can do is speculate. About Zoro's master we have even less evidence of his actual strength. Keep in mind that even his advice on rhythm was him telling zoro there are some swordsmen in the world who are able to cut nothing. He didn't showcase his own ability to do so. I think current zoro is absolutely stronger than his master though by how much remains to be seen. Zoro's master also doesn't have a reputation like Zeff does and to train someone you don't have to be stronger than that person, just more skilled. I think that's the case for Zoro's master. He taught Zoro about proper technique and swordsmanship and Zoro also did his own training outside of that as we have seen in flashbacks because he wanted to get stronger. I will add that these discussions will probably drastically change before the end of Water 7/Enies Lobby. You're about to get some really cool power scaling material!
@@DorianTheReaper That’s so true. The strength I gave him puts him at a similar level to those three. Of course, anyone could win-it would come down to who is more determined to win the fight. Since Zeff is retired, we can assume he wouldn’t have the same desire to defeat any of them. Still, I’m going to rank him slightly higher than Sanji, Zoro, and Luffy, simply out of respect for the fact that he trained Sanji, like a true master.
i think i agree with most of these except zeff. zeff back in the day may well have been as strong as luffy is now or stronger but we simply dont know. zeff nowadays may not even win against buggy because he lost his leg. current zeff should be much lower. other than that this list is actually pretty good
Good point about Zeff, and I do appreciate your concern. However, I'd like to argue a little here. You mentioned that Buggy might win against Zeff, but in my opinion, that’s unlikely. Zeff is Sanji’s master, and even with one leg, his reputation as the legendary 'Red-Leg Zeff' and his survival of the Grand Line prove just how skilled and powerful he was. Sanji learned his fighting style directly from Zeff, and at that point in the story-even up until the Water 7 Saga-Sanji hadn’t surpassed the man who taught him everything he knows.
Zeff’s experience and mastery give him an advantage not just over Sanji but possibly even over Zoro and Luffy at that time. It’s also worth noting that Zeff trained Sanji after losing his leg, so even then, he wasn’t far weaker. He’s not necessarily twice as strong as Sanji, but the fact that he could kick Sanji around during training shows he’s still a level above.
Of course, this is just my opinion, not a fact. But based on what we’ve seen, I feel his minimum strength should match Sanji’s, with a maximum of around twice Sanji’s level-somewhere in the range of 510-1020, with an average of about 765. Even as an older man, Zeff is still fast enough to stop bullets, like when he blocked Pearl’s attack. That kind of speed and strength shouldn’t be underestimated!
And I do think Zoro's master (dojo) would be similar, Zoro does not surpass his master
@GiraffeReactionsZone you make some good points about the training for sure. However Zeff did choose to retire after the loss of his leg and openly stated that he can't fight anymore. He probably takes care of your average fodder without issue but he was taken down by Gin. Someone current Sanji simply wouldn't lose to. I do agree that Zeff in his prime must have been very strong and zeff with one leg is still a dangerous man but i genuinely think that if sanji, zoro or luffy had challenged Zeff in Baratie they would have won. Sadly there is simply no real way to prove either side of this discussion so all we can do is speculate.
About Zoro's master we have even less evidence of his actual strength. Keep in mind that even his advice on rhythm was him telling zoro there are some swordsmen in the world who are able to cut nothing. He didn't showcase his own ability to do so. I think current zoro is absolutely stronger than his master though by how much remains to be seen. Zoro's master also doesn't have a reputation like Zeff does and to train someone you don't have to be stronger than that person, just more skilled. I think that's the case for Zoro's master. He taught Zoro about proper technique and swordsmanship and Zoro also did his own training outside of that as we have seen in flashbacks because he wanted to get stronger.
I will add that these discussions will probably drastically change before the end of Water 7/Enies Lobby. You're about to get some really cool power scaling material!
@@DorianTheReaper That’s so true. The strength I gave him puts him at a similar level to those three. Of course, anyone could win-it would come down to who is more determined to win the fight. Since Zeff is retired, we can assume he wouldn’t have the same desire to defeat any of them. Still, I’m going to rank him slightly higher than Sanji, Zoro, and Luffy, simply out of respect for the fact that he trained Sanji, like a true master.
@@GiraffeReactionsZone fair enough!