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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 พ.ย. 2017
- The new Siglent SDS1104X-E $499 4CH oscilloscope is a new contender for Rigol's DS1054Z dominance. What's it like inside?
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Amazingly detailed and in-depth review! Thank you for your time!
Just updated mine to the 6.1.35r2 firmware - finally finally fixed the Auto SetUp bug that has been plaguing me since day one (scope would brick if you used it - even power off didn't work).. I also no longer see the double trace with the PE effect Dave was showing.
Good to know
Thanks, Dave. I have been looking forward to the release of this scope, even though I just got a DS1054Z. I really enjoy your teardowns.
I love your tear down , and compare the performance of different devices
Thanks for the review! I watched the whole thing! Helps a lot
I like the new EEVBlog ident you designed. Really distinctive and cool to watch.
I can almost see it: "Monday morning a dozen of Siglent engineers banging their screwdrivers of the BNC's"! Priceless!
come on... they should !
Hhh
Whac-a-scope
4:42 watches shakeproof washer roll away as Dave takes off the cover... I hope you found it again...
I must go, my people need me.
+EEVblog -- did you manage to find it?
lol.... I was thinking the same when I first saw it.
lmao good catch, 2 years later, I don't think he found it
It's back at 4:50, I think.
Started watching at 1:20am in bed - totally absorbing, watched the whole thing! :)
Please do a low cost 4 channel oscilloscope shootout!!!
This is a low cost 4 ch scope
@@TheMechatronicEngineer He means a comparison between all the 4 channel oscilloscopes available
Thanks for doing this. As a huge critic, that's my biggest compliment. I'm sick of reviews on products that cost so much that only a tiny portion of viewers will ever see them, especially people who work in the field at real companies. Once in a while it's fun to see that stuff. But, even though you claim no sponsorship because of your otherwise excellent rules, you take free gear. You can't lie about that. So, well let's see, play with a free $10K toy or a $500 tool people can actually use? No surprises, Dave plays with the cool stuff. Fair enough, I would too. But it's nice to see you ballance things out.
The "NAND JTAG" jumper likely sets the boot source for the Zynq. One way boots off the local NAND flash, the other waits for programming over JTAG.
I'd imagine it's probably got a pull up/down to default to booting from the NAND when not strapped.
great to see yet another one, is getting hard to choose one of this and I'm up to it...
That extra cap in the front end is the 3.9/4pf 500v probe compensation cap.
Yep. Lack of which forced me to purchase a RIgol DS1054Z instead of the Siglent 1202X-E just last week. Happily, I wanted just long enough to get the new low price. So I'm happy, but would have loved this one for $170 more as well.
Es usted un genio. Increible Presentación y análisis.!
so fresh!
soon I'll be able to afford a decent 5 years old "budget scope" :D
I'm a med student and i spend most of the day watching your videos. i'm addicted.
I can only dream of having one, crappy oscilloscope and when i watch your videos (especially mailbag...) my jealousy gland swell and turns hyperactive.
love your videos... keep up the good work.
thank you.
He did a few videos on how to find a $50 oscilloscope on eBay
Hi Dave, I'm really interested in seeing a comparison between the different low end scopes. I have a really old and low res USB scope (from Parallax Inc.) but I'm seriously thinking of getting one of these four channel low end scopes.
Keep up the good work!
My partner just bought me one of these. I am so happy I linked him this instead of the Hantek toy I was looking at.
Pushing toward the 1/2 mil subscriber mark. :-)
Only took 8 1/2 years, practically an overnight success!
EEVblog Too funny. I'm slowly moving up as well...
@EEVblog Can you tell us the model of the USB adapter? Looks like a TL-WN725N, which you can get for $9 on Newegg in the US.
Well the basic decode is included yes, but both the AWG and the MSO hardware extras require software unlocks as well, so those are worthwhile hacks of course.
@EEVblog It looks like the GDS-1104B also double captured on the 2nd tap at 16:52
You seem to have the ear of some of the manufactures, I have a Owon sds7102s with the battery. Crappy scope but I needed the portability of the battery pack. Now I could a hand held but they lack the features. See if you can bend the ear just a little and get some "good" scopes with battery pack
During one of the 'two-shots', the second shot seemed to go from absolute left to absolute right.
So I think we are seeing oneshots that lasted two frames without them being properly rescaled to fit a single frame.
Would love to see the hookup and config/prep that produces what we see @12:39
please Dave , do a comparison update on these 4 ch low and mid range DSOs that have serial decoding.
Looks like a handy bit of kit dave, Rubycon capacitors Hmmmmm yum :)
Great video Dave! I love your tear-downs of test and measurement gear. I always look forward to your new videos. How do I do Patreon for you?
Thanks, just go to my Patreon page:
www.patreon.com/eevblog
Looking forward to the review of the thing! Shootout time!
6:55 Assuming they're not fakes (a la Rulycon or Rukycon), it's somewhat comforting to see Rubycons in there, even though they're not a full complement.
I tried this with the SDS 1202X-E.. Same thing, but only if I use a metal object to hit the connector. When there are two waveforms, and you move the position knob, it removes the extra waveform and leaves only one on the screen. So i'd say it's a bug.
did it get fixed in an update or something ?
Tactical dot.
Waiting for the shootout :D
This might be the modt anticipated video you'd do this year :D
Awesome, Dave! I have the Rigol 1054z but I haven't hacked it yet. I moved soon after I got it so I've been too busy with other things.
Something I'm thinking about: at the start of booting there's "ECC disabled" and then "bad CRC"... I'm curious which one is the cause and which is the effect. Without really knowing more and diving into it I can't tell. With software it's entirely possible for the effect to be shown before the cause, it just depends on how those parts were written.
So there is a very easy hack to enable 200Mhz, and the other options as well. (eevblog forums explain it well,) The reason for the 3 memory chips is fairly simple -- the two 128MByte on the right are dedicated sample memory -- connected to the fpga side of things. One chip for each pair of channels. (Keeping them on seperate channels so that the bandwidth is sufficient.) The third on the left is a 256MByte chip for the 2 ARM CPUs. Runs linux, and the scope app on top. Aside from the lack of 50Ohm input impedance option, this is a very decent entry level scope.
Thanks, that was exactly what I was searching for.
Appears it ARMs itself every 15 seconds, and that refreshes the screen. Bizarre.
Zynq-7000 series FPGAs use separate memory for the Processing System (2xCortex A9) and the Logic System. They can get away with a single RAM chip for the processor.
btw. that wifi dongle costs 8$ if you buy it from amazon :D
That was a quick video!
12:41 They seem to have some issues there. That segfault might not be critical, but I would rather want them to fix that.
69 dollhairs for a USB WIFI dongle? Really? $3 from ebay...
looks like the TL-WN725 ...14 bucks on amazon
Yeah what the hell’s the deal with that !!?
Nothing strange, that is the usual what you get when you buy extra things from the manufacturer.
If you want to try, buy from ebay, Amazon or Bang good. If you want to know it works, pay extra for that.
I am using just that to comment .... it is just a RTL8188, Dave shoud see if aftermarket wifi things work with it
I’m more concerned about all the different USB dongles, and only 3 ports available on the device
Yay, just in ti,e for Christmas:)
JUST, bought a Ds1054z...
Why?:c
*12:37* It's a Linux!
Hi Dave, can you do a comparison between the Siglent SDS1104X-E & Rigol 1054z for beginners?, seeing that they are good entry level scopes.
Rigol needs to add wifi dongle support, neat feature.
I see it mentions 1GSa/s in dual channel and 500MSa/s in Quad so it means that it has two ADC's one for each group of two channels ? This will be a big difference compared to Rigol that has 250MSa/s in Quad channel mode.
Just looked again at the part where you open the scope and yes it seems there are two ADC's so it is superior to RIGOL and worth a bit of extra for this.
Yes, also if you check Siglent's website for SDS1104X-E & SDS1204X-E specifications, it says they have 2x 1GSa ADCs which makes 500Msps/ch (for each of 4 channels). Also have 2x 14Ms depth, which also makes 7Msps depth for each of the 4 channels.
www.siglent.eu/sds1104x-e.html
How are the ADCs connected? If I use two channels, do I need to use 1 & 3 to be able to sample at 1 GHz?
This is what the guide says: "
The four channel series has two 1 GSa/s ADC chips (channel 1 and 2 share one, channel 3 and 4 share another), so that each channel can achieve sample rates up to 500 MSa/and work on bandwidths of 200 MHz when all channels are enabled."
So yes in order to have two signals samples at 1Gsps you should use channels 1 and 3 or 2 and 4.
I haven't tried cause I'm still thinking whether to buy sds1104x-e or Rigol ds1054Z.
@AC D can you update once you know pls thanks!
@@acd8887 How did You buy?
Listening to Dave on 2x speed sounds like he's announcing a horse race... Except it's which electrons are gonna fall out first! XD
I happily used a Tektronix 350MHz oscillocope where I could make a single shot and get 10M samples. Then I could zoom in and out to look at the whole capture. A miniature of the whole capture could be seen so I knew where I was zoomed in. Is there a similar feature on this Siglent?
dtelder also interested in that.
Yes, so at 14Msamples you can be around 1-5ms/div and still get the full 1GS/s resolution when you zoom in. Any smaller horizontal timebase and you get history frames at the full resolution. If the resolution isn't as important as the history frames you can turn down the memory depth and get more history.
10:10 - why are some of the lines below the central chip S shaped several times? Is this to lengthen the signal path so it will not be out of sync with another path that is a bit longer?
Yes. Each path exactly the same length.
Correct, it's signal length matching. Rule of thumb is signals travel 15cm per nanosecond on a PCB, and that matters on today's high speed memory stuff.
Should I buy one of these cheaper ones (SDS1104X-E or DS1054Z) + separate fuctiongen or scope with inbuild gen and pay +300€? any suggestion what benefits these options have? or link to forum is ok if this has been there some where...
Whats with the holes in the front panel ? Slots for overlays?
CAN decoding out of the box - nice.
Rigol stuff can't do that even with all the licenses/ hackery.
At 00:06, the audiol level go down, then, theres thes voice saying "I see You", looks like that theres something wrong with the counter at this point! Somebody confirm that please...
Nevermind you answered it.
The power supply looks like it has PFC in it.
Darnit, the choice was so easy before!!
Hi Dave! I'm very interested on triggering problems on siglent, what about persistence setting?
Does anyone know if you can save all of the waveform points to a file for viewing on a pc? I tried saving the waveform but it only gives me the part that's visible on the screen. I want everything that was acquired during the trigger.
Interesting.
I bought a 1202. It is worth the money, but meh. Great scope, but wish the adjust knob wasn't used for menus. It feels like mush. Had issues with the decoder rs-232. SPI works. Get a USB logic analyzer instead of relying on scope for decode. Function generator actually works really nice, but setting frequency with adjustment knob sucks. Adjustment knob in general sucks.
@10:20, the unpopulated part is a memory provision. The Zynq FGPA fabric gets programmed from the internal ARM processors. The Zynq is a bit different in that the processors boot first and program the fabric.
how come? [Get a USB logic analyzer instead of relying on scope for decode]
@@lukasbruderlin2723 Most USB LA's have better UI and are easier to work with than the scope based stuff. I'm not limited by scope memory when recording with a USB device. Usually they are using the computer's memory. Searching for things is easier when you need to type characters and several hex values. Scope based LA is still handy when you need to see if a glitch is occurring because of a power supply issue, or maybe a stray signal tickling a reset or BoD, or you need to view analog signals and the digital data they output. Tools for jobs.
Kyle Crane thank you for your profound answer, really nice - thanks! 👍🏼
It's Christmas 2018, how is the firmware for this today? The multi-capture bug looks like a screen erase issue when a bunch of triggers come in.
Dave are you working on a shoot out or review of this model?
Thinking about getting this scope, it looks nice. Wondering if the empy memory chip U27 has any use (possible upgrade), why is it there at all?
One on order....
7:20
Some of these caps are Rubycons (looks like it's YXG series), which is great, but the 470uF 35V at C43 looks like another Lelon. The one further back adjacent to it might also be a Lelon - it's not a Rubycon because the vent pattern isn't right.
We can only hope that Siglent put thought into which locations could survive being Lelons and it wasn't just random.
What part number is that TO-220 pkg that you were poking around at on the edge of the power supply board?
Silastic across the tops of all the rupture vents on the capacitors? Can't be good practice and may compromise a safety device.
It won't effect anything. I have covered some in JB weld and they still vent.
+rocketman221projects -- Does it take more pressure for them to vent in that case? Do they still vent upward (which helps avoid the fluid from pooling on the PCB), or does it then vent to one side, potentially damaging other components?
I don't know how much pressure was inside them. The JB weld split apart and they vented out the top like normal.
I made a video of it several years ago. One cap had JB weld over the vent and one had JB weld with a sheet metal over it.
th-cam.com/video/ZaczI5xQk5k/w-d-xo.html
Interesting! Really appreciate the info. Thanks so much =)
did you wand to join electronics class in google this is the class code a8zr54
it will be perfect if you join too!!!
I want one. I hope they fix that glitch though. If it is hackable to 200Mhz the sample rate is OK for one channel use isn't it?
Siglent SDS1104X-E or rigol 1054z? Please share your opinion!
What did you end up with?
I don't understand how tapping the ground can induce a signal (it's ground after all). I never tried that with a TDS (yet).
It’s not an electrical response, the mechanical vibration is coupled into the capacitors of the front end and generates a spurious signal.
Why not put more stable Capacitors on the input then?
18:00 Disappointed. Sometimes I hit the oscilloscope with the hammer before making measurements :))
I know I can search, but, what fun is that... what is network capability for on a 'scope?
I'd be interested also
Allows full remote control of most functions over the network
I can hardly wait for your evaluation of this scope compared to the Rigol
where would that review be found?
12:43 DRV_PRODUCT_PIKACHU :D
Is this an easter egg??
There's also a segfault not far above that
Can be this scope compared to Micsig?
y they put toothpaste on it?
beer+nut+eevblog = Good day
oh those videos seems to be getting a lot less engagement these days... weird
Because there's no engagement made from Author > Viewer, and honestly, another Sig scope video?
....
I personally enjoy the mailbag only and that's about it.
Yeah, this video seems kinda rushed.
He has basically been phoning it in for the past few years. Too bad, I miss the old videos, a lot more informative and a lot less product wanking and/or slamming. There are a lot more channels out there now that do what he used to do, so that is nice.
I think that no one cares.. This teardowns of low end scopes are kind of pointless and boring. The hardware is almost fine for all of this units, but the software is almost totally crappy. It seems this teardowns are just a kind of marketing wank: "Just look at your beatifull hardware"
But its the Software that's the key to a good Scope. If have seen and played with a few cheap scopes from Siglent and Uni-T, and their firmware were totally crap... Bugs, Strange menus, strange behaviour,...
Ben Wizards Can you recommend any others?
ouch! it seems the tagarno video capture is messed, very low pixel resolution...
My new Vegas 15 software sucks and couldn't import the Tagarno video, Had to convert first. Not sure what happened.
BTW, it's not "very low", it's still 1080 HD, but not it's usual clarity.
I mean, the video has been improperly resized during the process, with a pixel aspect different than a square (anamorphic). it is more noticeable on rounded silhouettes...
I also noticed this right away. The compression is very noticeable for example right at 7:50 - lots of detail lost. But hey, no biggie. We're all just too spoiled by your normally excellent content ;)
Yep, sorry, my new windows 10 machine with a new version of Handbrake wasn't compatible with my old handbrake scripts, so I had to convert manually using the GUI. I think I had Anamorphic turned on. Didn't see it on my preview window.
Aww. Just upgraded to the SDS1202X-E a few months back. Why are you doing this to me, Siglent?!
But then again, I'm happy with 200 MHz, two channels, serial decode and no more extras that could be purchased.
Since I do have a Zeroplus logic analyzer and a Tektronix arb gen, there is really nothing I am missing out on.
me too!
Well does it really needs the upgrade? Something Dave didn't really talk about
Great video, could you add subtitle to video?
Beats it with a screwdriver.
Wonders why it bugs out.
any updates on the hacks?
All options and bandwidth methods documented on EEVblog forum
Is this comparable with Rigol's DHO800/900?
on serial dump : BAD CRC, Bad Block, Segmentation Fault. Woohooo you got a faulty memory somewhere ? :)
Is it as loud/noisy as the DS1054Z?
Most of the times I've find my self using my TDS220 rather the DS1054Z.
Better buy an old used tektronix rather new DSOs.
Hi Dave, question for you, is this still a good buy for 499, or is there any other model with 4 channels and 100 Mhz? I like the 4 ch but also considering a 2 ch 200 Mhz. thanks.
Google around. There is a way to change the software to get 200MHz out of this thing.
You can hack this to 200 Mhz or 70 Mhz if you like, just by entering a serial number. You can reverse to 100 Mhz at any time.
I tried to think up why multiple waveforms were displayed when tapping the BNC. I think the signal is being displayed in different zoom scales at the same time. Failure to clear the screen before zooming out and reprinting the waveform would be my guess. Take a look at how similar the waveforms appear in the horizontal plane. I think we're looking at the same wave with different zoom levels with slightly different horizontal offset and resolution.
Still sucky firmware by the looks of it from Siglent, Rigol hands down (even for the no-hack price) - but we're waiting for the shootout Dave
Is that a HDMI port on the front just next to the USB connector? that would be sweet if you could atach a monitor to it and get a much larger picture.
It's probably not video in/out considering "Sbus" marking underneath it, but still I have no idea what it is for.
Hard to tell from the video but the jack looks a lot like a HDMI connector
Pretty sure that's where you connect the optional logic analyzer. Using existing high volume consumer connectors keeps the price down (and keeps people at buying new scopes after they fried the internals after connecting a TV to it ;) ).
We will have to wait and see. I am planing on buying one as soon as I can
the only "SBUS" i remember was from Sun Microsystems, but they surely wouldn't use such an out dated bus on a new scope!
why its so bad the quality of your microscope? bad compression?
I just bought a 1204x-e as a hobbyist. This makes me feel like I should have just bought the 1104
Yes, the 1104 is exactly the same internally as that one, and its very easily hackable to be the 1204 by a software key on the internet.
shootout!
PEBKAC used to be a term all over the MS knowledge base... They eliminated it as a politically incorrect acronym.
Hi, does anyone know what frequency reference STD this scope uses ,
Thanks Dave
Just a regular cristal.
Ok thanks
It not up to the tasks at hands.
#TapTrigger
Did they fix the bug at 16:00?
It looks like it. Firmware update 6.1.35r2 seems to have fixed mine (alone with a few other issues)
@@markrichards5630 Thanks Mark!
WHOOPS!! ALERT !! Another 4 channel scope WITHOUT INDEPENDENT CONTROLS for vertical channels. That's always a dealbreaker for the cognoscenti.
NeverTalkToCops1 why would it be an issue? Too much work to quickly press the channel button first?