@@KeritechElectronics We just finished setting up a new electronics bench, and I have watched far too many EEVBlog videos and read far too many forum posts in preparation for choosing the equipment we'll be putting in. My Dad and I both have our own home workbenches, and they're a hodgepodge of different tools and equipment (his much older than mine-he still has some tape degaussers!), but neither of us has a bench we would call 'efficient'. Trying to make a bench we can both use for our projects and keep it nicely organized! We'll post a video on it soon. Thanks to Dave and to everyone in this community, it's been immensely helpful!
I think the update speed on screen is likely due to rendering issues, likely due to those measurements being taken simultaneously. I guess it's still doing the 120k wfps behind the scenes. Hope you get well soon, Dave. Thanks for the video. Was looking forward to this one! 12-bit scopes everywhere now flooding the market. Amazing time to be alive. :)
@@Jmpguitars Thats the laggy UI when you interact with the scope, which could be fixed. Unlikely the performance of rendering the waveform will get much better.
I ordered the 800 series XD tree days ago and will be on my hands next week i can't wait to see your review on YT about this unit. Thanks for the video, mate!
That zynq zcu2cg used even has displayport 1.2a hard IP in the processor system. Just needs a couple voltage level translators and an lvds line driver for the aux channel. Even at an order quantity of just 1, that only costs about $7 including a DP connector. Mini DP would be even cheaper. Super low per-unit cost, but that's not accounting for the engineering costs to route some DP signals through the board to a connector.
At 5:05 you compare the logic ports, but they're different for a reason. The 2000 series has internal hardware for that, and only connects externally to a probe. The 1000 series uses entirely external mixed signal hardware. At 11:32 you assume logic is also done on the internal chip, but it is not, it's built in to the SLA1016.
Hi Dave. I'd like to see a more detailed look at this scope. There is no need to do a highly detailed review, just play around with it, show some important features, and tell us what you think. Show the benefits of a 12 bit scope. I would like to see (and I think other would too) a side by side visual comparison between a 12 bit scope and an 8 bit scope, with the same screen size and screen resolution, and the same waveforms so I could see the benefits of 12 bits. Most people have probably not seen one.
Ordered the same model about a month ago in Europe. Will let you know if it passes the microphonics test as soon as it arrives! Great video Dave, would love a more in depth review when you are feeling better again. *edit* Hi Dave, indeed there are barely any microphonics on the new SDS1000X. However, this is with the 50 Ohm termination enabled! In your video. the SDS2000 is set to 1M and the SDS1000 to 50 Ohm. As expected, 1M on the SDS1000 also results in microphonics being transfered through the front end. ;)
Interested to see if the price differential between 800X and 1000X is justified by any performance benefits and what the larger screen on the 1000X does for those of us whose eye sight is not as it was when we were young guns. I don't see it so far (pun intended) but hopefully Dave will show us.
I hope to buy an oscilloscope with a frequency generator within the next two years, and I am genuinely grateful for the depth and breadth of your coverage. My current target is the Rigol DHO914S, and your channel (and forum) introduced me to the company.
Just beware inbuilt AWG's don't offer much in the way of amplitude or complex waveforms and even in HiZ mode will struggle to reach threshold levels of some devices.
Be aware that this scope does not have a built-in AWG. Even if you add the AWG option, it relies on _external_ hardware to actually generate the signal.
@@tautech8196 My reply seems to have disappeared. All I need is a sine wave generated at a specific frequency, and I cannot remember the required amplitude at the moment.
Dave -- one topic of great interest is the extent to which 12-bit res results in a smoother waveform appearance on the screen. So that in an economical digital scope we can finally get wave forms that avoid the misleading and distracting jaggies. So that would be nice to show in your review: Nice smooth sines, and also lines that are just slightly off horizontal that always look ugly, like a square wave with a slightly saggy top line, or bottom line.
You do sound pretty confused...stop demanding what YOU wanna see, and maybe be a tad grateful for what he is delivering to you free of any expense. Dave is making great content for you and I, and he even mentions that he ain't feeling well, so maybe have that in mind before asking for things. Let's hope he gets well, and perhaps then he can do all these things you want him to do..
@@jakobh.4422 Er what? 20:57 Dave says: "let me know if you want to do a full review or if you wanted me to test specific things I can do do that quickly and whack it up on the uh second Channel". Your imagination must really be turned up to 11 to read my reply to Dave as a "demand". Sheesh!
@@EEVblog Yes, thumbs up on #601 and #610 which are indeed related; solid and valuable discussion about the capture and rendering of noise. But I'm talking about the coarseness of the ADC capturing the signal in steps, and the coarseness of the display rendering slopes with steps. (ie: not about "electrical noise" though obviously quantization is a form of noise in its own right). This should improve with higher res ADC (4096 instead of 256 steps), and higher res screens (though this SDS1204X HD still has the 1024x600 screen same as SDS2104X Plus etc). Even with unimpressive 1024x600, traces could be smoother with judicious anti-aliasing, I think. This of course won't negate your points about noise -- but will allow the "aberrations" we see on the screen to be more certainly about legit noise, and not about the shortcomings of sampling and rendering. I'm hoping. A nuance is the way that low-amplitude electrical noise interacts with the quantization steps of the ADC: A finer res ADC does, by itself, improve one aspect of noise: Any signal voltage nominally at an exact ADC step threshold will permit any tiny amplitude of noise to produce one whole bit change at the ADC output (0.4% FS for 8-bit ADC), whereas that same signal nominally midway between ADC step thresholds would need a noise amplitude of over half a step (0.2% FS) to affect the digitized value. When the ADC is 12-bit, at least those amounts change to 0.024%FS (size of steps, sometimes unwanted) and 0.012%FS (worst case required to register), which should be a good improvement in hiding the noise that's not significant, and displaying more proportionately the noise that is worth seeing. As long as the limited res of the screen doesn't water down the effect.
Thanks for this great review and get well soon! I bought a Rigol DHO 924S because I need a small Formfactor, cheap and good performing scope. I thought I'll regret that I bought such an expensive "Low-Level" Scope, but compared with the 1204X HD I'm really glad that I bought the Rigol. The missing HDMI is unacceptable, the fixed Sample-Memory / Sample-Rate ratio is awful as well. I think they're asking too much money for this Product. Don't get me wrong: It's a wonderful scope, but compared to other Manufactures, not that remarkable.
MORNSUN is 金升阳 in Chinese. It focus on power supply. The famous one is the small isolated power module, such as 5V to 5V. I use them sometimes in my company.
SDS2000X HD is the better instrument all day long in every respect. Smart fan, fixed mem option, 500 MHz design, better probes, better system clock, internal AWG, professional grade LA/MSO probe as an option. They are also on promotion until June 30 2024 offering a heavily discounted option bundle with a new purchase.
Yeah, I have an older (still nice) Siglent, and the web view of the scope is pretty nice, would be fine for most class purposes. In that regard way better than the conceptually similar Rigol feature. Also useful for conveniently capturing scope images to drop into documentation.
@@EEVblog One feature that can make Rigol name their price. Imagine somebody would made a screen-less scope, perfect input amplifiers and sampling whilst allowing you to bring your own 4k monitor and your favourite mouse to drive it. Would turn Bob into an new type of uncle!
@@LawpickingLocksmithR&S has got you covered :D screenless scopes are more intended for production testing ofc, and using the web interface on the computer that you're doing the work on is more comfortable anyways
if you were removing a feature to make use more intuitive for beginners i would hope that the functionality would be available somewhere in some other menu to the benefit of advanced users. if that is the reasoning.
According to the datasheets, both have the same (low) display resolution. However, to me the 2000 looks way nicer (font rendering with anti-aliasing perhaps?). I guess the dual-duty CPU in the 1000 limits the display output. That would also explain the visibly slower updates (even though apparently more wfs are captured).
would love a full review. Especially the UI responsiveness. I am about to place an order... 1000 x HD ? 3000x HD? something else ? Thanks for the teardown!
19:29 the older one must have a more powerful math processor, so it can update quicker even when showing all the measurements on the screen. If you turn off measurement view, likely it gets faster.
Revising my earlier incorrect comment: Apparently this "SBUS" is not simply individual digital wires for the MSO feature. Evidently for this scope there's an outboard module (SLA1016 ) that provides the interface to 16 digital connections, and concentrates that into this SBUS connection. As a high-data-rate signal, I guess it has the same sort of electrical requirements as HDMI, hence Siglent's reuse of that type of connector and cables. (Not unlike serial ports that use RJ45 or RJ11 connectors, or foot pedals that use "phone" jacks.)
@@norbert.kiszka Also a low cost well behaved response connector, that is specified to handle nearly 1GHz clock rates, and which has multiple suppliers as well, with near identical products. Good number of insert cycles as well, cheaper than making your own.
Yes. Mine had so many bubbles that i was forced to remove it from beginning. Anyway a bench scope shouldn't need a screen protector. Glossy screen are worst to watch than a mate screen as this scope have.
Webserver via a PC works really well and allows for full remote control. Every possible operation can be done via a mouse just as it can when its directly connected to the scope.
@@tautech8196 I totally forgot this… You are right. Thus option works…But still, a dumbo screen can be find in the dumpster, and has no boot time, etc… Is just more convenient.
Not too shabby for a digital oh-silly-scope! I'd check it out and tell friends about it. Good thing they fixed the microphonics. You got a pixellated pentode on your tee - where did you get it? Gets the vacuum tube witch seal of approval.
If I received this device in the mail, it would be going right back to the factory. Those air bubbles under the front faceplate are totally unacceptable for a new, full price unit. The first thing running through my mind is that this is a refurb that had an unskilled tech replace the LCD screen... nope. just no.
Perhaps you can answer a question for me. I bought a new Siglent scope a while back, model SDS1052DL+. I work on vintage audio gear, and have used analog scopes all my life. Why is it that this digital scope cannot do something as simple as display the eye pattern from a CD player? Even just watching the audio output of an amplifier is a channel, as there is a lot of problems syncing and also there seems to be quite a bit of latency. Am I doing something wrong, or did I buy a pile of crap?
@@ScottGrammerif you're going with a marine-based metaphor, I'd certainly say the 40-year-old scope would be a supremely better anchor! But seriously, despite several digital scopes, i do loves me my Tek 465!
@@Graham_Wideman Simply put, the old analog scope does exactly what I need. I just have to clean the switches once in a while. The new one is wholly incapable of displaying an eye pattern from a CD player, and it can barely display the waveform from two audio channels at once. And despite being "low end," it cost $300, and for that I expect competency up to at least 5 or 10 MHz, which is all it takes to display an eye pattern. Since it's supposedly a 50MHz scope, I assumed (wrongly) that it could do that. It appears that the problem is that the scope I bought has no intensity grading and not enough memory for the display. Oh, well. Live and learn. Anybody need a $300 digital boat anchor?
@@ScottGrammer Right. A digital scope is not a faithful replica of an analog scope, emulating a CRT, it's a different instrument with its own separate features. The main benefit to a digital scope is that it has digital storage and does not require a repeated waveform to capture and display a signal. Consequently, it does not have the built in shortcoming of an analog scope of a CRT with some short amount of persistence and no erasure mechanism. That shortcoming is an accidental benefit for the eye diagram display. But on digital scopes it is only replicated as a special feature, typically on scopes that also have intensity grading, as you noted. Your surprise at not getting this "basic capability" on a digital scope would be like a digital scope user being shocked that their newly acquired analog CRT scope lacks the "basic" capability of showing the signal before the trigger (on non-repeating waveforms). So unfortunately this scope was a poor choice for this particular task. That said, I rather doubt that it has trouble displaying two channels of audio, though the low end scopes may not have the prettiest displays due to limited screen resolution. But in general this particular scope at $300 does not seem like a good deal compared to applying that amount of money to any of several modestly more expensive scopes that are much better. I have had a lot of good use out of my Rigol DS1054Z, currently at $350 or so, and according to EEVBlog posts can do the eye diagram (I haven't tried it). In the $750 to $2000 range I prefer the Siglent line for some particular features, notably the web UI.
I'm hoping that they'll send you one of the 3k or even 7k 12bit series some day, as I've been eying them for a cost effective upgrade at work over our win xp based teledyne lecroy from the before-times (the noise and booting times...urgh). I'd really like to know how they build these different. Saw them on their (quite large) booth on the embedded world in germany and couldn't resist and check their knobs - not the best but definitely better :P Though I have to say, it's really weird that the 3/7k still seem to use the old digital signal probes and they only changed that design on the 800 and 1k... the 7k is also the only one that has an HDMI port, probably because it's essentially build on a PC platform.
@@tautech8196 I was comparing them under the premise of recently released/reworked and being 12 bit, which the SDS6000 isn't afaik, well it also has a high res mode, but according to the manual that cuts down your effective bandwith to 0.028*Sample_Rate if you want to push the 8 bit architecture to 12 bit.
@@ignispurgatorius5297 Well all SDS6000 models in China are all10&12bit and we could well ask if they and western models share the same HW and I strongly suspect they do. On the China website all SDS6000 models, 4&8ch versions are listed as 12bit. An interesting exercise for possible hackability.
AWG seems AWOL! So far as I can tell, the AWG option (cheapish at $135) just adds the capability to control an external AWG over ethernet (like an SDG-series unit) from the scope's screen. What the heck is the point of that? Maybe the option adds a few additional waveforms you can load to the AWG? Maybe related -- the scope literature advertises that it can perform automatic transfer function to produce a Bode plot. This presumably requires the scope to ramp the external AWG hardware across the frequency range of interest, and need not even invoke a UI for the AWG on the scope screen -- I sure hope it doesn't require the AWG option just to send commands to the actual AWG. Now signal generators or AWGs built-in to scopes are often awkward to use, because you often want to twiddle with the AWG settings while watching results on the scope... and you can't do that if the AWG UI is plastered on the scope screen. So obliging the AWG to be separate from the scope is certainly a respectable position. But then advertising and selling an AWG option when the scope doesn't actually have an AWG seems a bit confusing, when other scopes with AWG options actually provide an AWG. Am I missing something?
Siglent DSO's with Bode plot capability take control of the AWG for the stimulus sweep. It's full plug and play with any Siglent AWG and no AWG licensing is required to do Bode plots.
@@tautech8196 Thanks for that comment, good to know about not needing the AWG license for bode plot. For completeness, there are other Siglent scopes (including my SDS2104X-Plus) that do have an AWG built-in. Hence the SDS1204X HD AWG option description is confusing. But as I noted, the built-in AWG is not necessarily a win.
@@Graham_Wideman AWG option for the lower cost scopes comes in 2 parts, the HW and SW licensing. The optional MSO/LA is the same. Your X Plus uses the far better SPL2016 LA probe assembly. There is a DIY thread for these in the EEVblog forum.
@@tautech8196 Thanks again for your reply. Not the main subject of this thread, but when you say "the far better SPL2016 LA probe"... far better than what?
I wonder if there will be 4 channel 200MHz 14 bit hobby oscilloscopes coming out very soon at similar prices? The power and prices are most exciting. 😎 Thank you Dave. Yes, HDMI is something I think is nice for lectures and just playing around.
@@Graham_Wideman people can save the waveforms which then allow you to really take advantage of the extra data, though i agree that if you have 12 bit its likely more than enough.
@@Graham_WidemanMost 8-bit scopes can't capture microvolt-level signals with any respectable quality because of their resolution, input offsets, and ADC noise. Some struggle with low-millivolt signals. 12-bit scopes are a significant improvement, but I believe 14 or 16-bit scopes will eventually be the reasonable limit. When you're cranking up the gain to see small signals, the screen resolution matters very little compared to your ADC resolution and noise floor.
@@asm_nop But range switching is mostly performed by adjusting the gain of the input amplifiers, not by the firmware using just a subset of the ADC range (though the latter might apply to the very finest range or two, in which case I agree with your point.)
One day (when I'm a lot better at electronics) I'll have a scope like this. But for now my little 2n1 hand held one will do. 😊 P.S. not having ports is an old trick to get you to buy bigger better (more expensive) model 😅
Meanwell _used_to be a reputable power supply vendor in my eyes. Now we are having their PSUs failing and drifting left and right in our equipment that uses many third party modules in there and very often they use meanwell and very often they fail.
its got two adc but still halves the samplerate when 2 channels are turned on? that was the reason to get the siglent x-e over a rigol back then as it had 1gs/s even with two channels turned on or does it only have 2x 2gs/s when using channel 1 + 3 or 2+4?
[Edit] I'm now not so sure what the reason is for the sample-rate limitations for this scope (SDS1204X HD). The spec sheet shows: One channel mode: 2 GSa/s, Two channel mode: 1 GSa/s, Four channel mode: 500 MSa/s. So that seems like the bottleneck is not the ADCs, but rather downstream from there. In which case, if you want to use two channels, it should not matter which two you pick. But I was not able to find that written down.
@@ninethirtyone4264 OK ADC12D1000. The chip appears to have two independent ADCs and I think the datasheet says you can run them both at full bandwidth. But it has the option to multiplex the digital output to a single LVDS channel, and that could be the constraint in this scope. But the additional halving of scope sample rate with 4 channels suggests the bottleneck is downstream in the FPGA processing.
close to $1,000 difference between this and the 2000X? That is some BS. Mean Wells are obviously another $600 and the additional known name cap the additional $400 /s
off topic and people complains about why dp isnt taking off yeah because people wants hdmi technology cant move on because one industry wants dp but another wants hdmi, and nobody can settle on one so instead we get 1 hdmi with 3 dp on graphics cards and then nobody uses the dp ever because most monitors dont have em, and we have people preaching about how good dp is and how hdmi should be obsolete, but then new products still do hdmi which other people expects them to have lol
Really cheaply made and too expensive for what you get. Waveform frame rate looks like 13fps. Instead of blowing 1500 euros on this i will save my money and get something better. This is basically a low end arm chip running linux, a cheap fpga , and two decent 12 bit ADC.
3:50 SORRY But ALL These New Texurized plastics And That Handle SUCK EVERYTHING used to be BABY BUTT Somooth And Soft And Smooth That's THE STANDARD REASON EVERYTHING Is Rough THESE Days Is BECAUSE THEY don't want to spend money sanding SO NO ROUGH HANDLE IS A JOKE
Say what.. 20:55 Ofcourse you shall do a video on these units, and hopefully on the main channel, its your primary content ain it.... and why your getting these expensive scopes? Ain't it? - or do China just ship you item to thousands of dollars to help to you fund your kids thrue school. A half-baked video where I fully understand your sick but also validating close to nothing on this new Siglent unit.. really ain't it.. Test these scopes merits & compare them to others, your one of the few that actually can compare all of them head to head / brand to brand' as your get them like candy, and then deliver content to us your loyal subscribers & who are financing you.. that is why we are subscribed to this channel for so many years.. Its not to see a talking head "busting" solar roadways somewhere on the planet and blowing your own nose. If your main YT channel ain't for testing new interesting scope products that your clearly are asking for, since you got them in bulk, then Im curious what are EEVblog YT channel intended for?
As relevant today as it was back then. th-cam.com/video/EMPRf2K0qSM/w-d-xo.html A proper comprehensive review video is a massive undertaking in time, and I produce over two dozen different types of videos. The curse of being an eclectic channel. Those debunking videos are popular BTW, often more popular then review videos. And yeah, I'll be feeding an oscilloscope to my kids tonight. If you gave two seconds to think about what you just said, you'll realised that to do an extensive comparison review I have all the other scopes to compare it with, I can't just go sell them to feed the kids.
Nobody is going to follow advice to spend 3+ times the price of this scope that is completely unsubstantiated and quantified in units of "suck". But while we're on the subject, you know what sucks? Keysight's web interface and network software.
Not again! I just finished watching two other Siglent teardowns... I need sleep!
The world does need another 1000 unboxing videos! Sadly them idiots get far more subscribers.
For those who don't know -- Jeff has a very interesting channel of his own. Subscribed!
@@Graham_Wideman not just Jeff but his dad too (Geerling Engineering), especially if you're into high power RF stuff.
@@KeritechElectronics Agreed!
@@KeritechElectronics We just finished setting up a new electronics bench, and I have watched far too many EEVBlog videos and read far too many forum posts in preparation for choosing the equipment we'll be putting in.
My Dad and I both have our own home workbenches, and they're a hodgepodge of different tools and equipment (his much older than mine-he still has some tape degaussers!), but neither of us has a bench we would call 'efficient'. Trying to make a bench we can both use for our projects and keep it nicely organized!
We'll post a video on it soon. Thanks to Dave and to everyone in this community, it's been immensely helpful!
Thank you Dave for comparison with 2000X-HD. We still like to watch a full review!
The Logic Analyser FPGA is in the SBus LA1016 module, so that's why there is no FPGA for the LA in the scope.
I think the update speed on screen is likely due to rendering issues, likely due to those measurements being taken simultaneously. I guess it's still doing the 120k wfps behind the scenes. Hope you get well soon, Dave. Thanks for the video. Was looking forward to this one! 12-bit scopes everywhere now flooding the market. Amazing time to be alive. :)
Yes, it's slower screen waveform updating, I should have been more clear. So basically a processing throughput issue.
@@EEVblog I think that issue was mentioned on the 800X, so it's likely going to be fixed for both models in newer firmware.
@@Jmpguitars Thats the laggy UI when you interact with the scope, which could be fixed. Unlikely the performance of rendering the waveform will get much better.
I ordered the 800 series XD tree days ago and will be on my hands next week i can't wait to see your review on YT about this unit.
Thanks for the video, mate!
That zynq zcu2cg used even has displayport 1.2a hard IP in the processor system. Just needs a couple voltage level translators and an lvds line driver for the aux channel. Even at an order quantity of just 1, that only costs about $7 including a DP connector. Mini DP would be even cheaper. Super low per-unit cost, but that's not accounting for the engineering costs to route some DP signals through the board to a connector.
At 5:05 you compare the logic ports, but they're different for a reason. The 2000 series has internal hardware for that, and only connects externally to a probe. The 1000 series uses entirely external mixed signal hardware. At 11:32 you assume logic is also done on the internal chip, but it is not, it's built in to the SLA1016.
Ohhh! That's good to know!
Seems you are right. I thought the PCI express connector was also a serial interface,
@@EEVblog AFAIK all of their scopes with built-in LA use the same probe. There's a DIY version of that probe on your blog site.
Hopefully more detailed review to follow. Also interested in the SDS3000X HD as well. Many thanks for the effort.
I felt that too about that handle, at 3:45, deeply inside my guts, thank you Dave for a portion of eevporn!
Hi Dave. I'd like to see a more detailed look at this scope. There is no need to do a highly detailed review, just play around with it, show some important features, and tell us what you think. Show the benefits of a 12 bit scope.
I would like to see (and I think other would too) a side by side visual comparison between a 12 bit scope and an 8 bit scope, with the same screen size and screen resolution, and the same waveforms so I could see the benefits of 12 bits. Most people have probably not seen one.
Feel better Dave
Full review, please!
I would really like to see how responsive the web interface is.
I did a pretty deep review of the SDS814X HD a couple of months ago, in case it helps anyone.
Ordered the same model about a month ago in Europe. Will let you know if it passes the microphonics test as soon as it arrives! Great video Dave, would love a more in depth review when you are feeling better again.
*edit*
Hi Dave, indeed there are barely any microphonics on the new SDS1000X. However, this is with the 50 Ohm termination enabled!
In your video. the SDS2000 is set to 1M and the SDS1000 to 50 Ohm. As expected, 1M on the SDS1000 also results in microphonics being transfered through the front end. ;)
Two thumbs up -- one for this new scope, and one for Dave being so enthusiastic about it :-)
Interested to see if the price differential between 800X and 1000X is justified by any performance benefits and what the larger screen on the 1000X does for those of us whose eye sight is not as it was when we were young guns. I don't see it so far (pun intended) but hopefully Dave will show us.
7.1" vs 10.1", 50Mpoints/ch bs 100Mpoints/ch, $700 price difference. I'm not seeing it either.
full review for sure thanks Dave
I hope to buy an oscilloscope with a frequency generator within the next two years, and I am genuinely grateful for the depth and breadth of your coverage. My current target is the Rigol DHO914S, and your channel (and forum) introduced me to the company.
Just beware inbuilt AWG's don't offer much in the way of amplitude or complex waveforms and even in HiZ mode will struggle to reach threshold levels of some devices.
@@tautech8196 I only need to generate a sine wave at a given frequency, though the amplitude requirement escapes my memory at the moment.
Be aware that this scope does not have a built-in AWG. Even if you add the AWG option, it relies on _external_ hardware to actually generate the signal.
@@tautech8196 My reply seems to have disappeared. All I need is a sine wave generated at a specific frequency, and I cannot remember the required amplitude at the moment.
@@Graham_Wideman What additional hardware is required?
Dave -- one topic of great interest is the extent to which 12-bit res results in a smoother waveform appearance on the screen. So that in an economical digital scope we can finally get wave forms that avoid the misleading and distracting jaggies. So that would be nice to show in your review: Nice smooth sines, and also lines that are just slightly off horizontal that always look ugly, like a square wave with a slightly saggy top line, or bottom line.
You do sound pretty confused...stop demanding what YOU wanna see, and maybe be a tad grateful for what he is delivering to you free of any expense.
Dave is making great content for you and I, and he even mentions that he ain't feeling well, so maybe have that in mind before asking for things.
Let's hope he gets well, and perhaps then he can do all these things you want him to do..
@@jakobh.4422 Er what? 20:57 Dave says: "let me know if you want to do a full review or if you wanted me to test specific things I can do do that quickly and whack it up on the uh second Channel". Your imagination must really be turned up to 11 to read my reply to Dave as a "demand". Sheesh!
I've done a video related to that: th-cam.com/video/Znwp0pK8Tzk/w-d-xo.html
@@EEVblog Yes, thumbs up on #601 and #610 which are indeed related; solid and valuable discussion about the capture and rendering of noise. But I'm talking about the coarseness of the ADC capturing the signal in steps, and the coarseness of the display rendering slopes with steps. (ie: not about "electrical noise" though obviously quantization is a form of noise in its own right). This should improve with higher res ADC (4096 instead of 256 steps), and higher res screens (though this SDS1204X HD still has the 1024x600 screen same as SDS2104X Plus etc). Even with unimpressive 1024x600, traces could be smoother with judicious anti-aliasing, I think.
This of course won't negate your points about noise -- but will allow the "aberrations" we see on the screen to be more certainly about legit noise, and not about the shortcomings of sampling and rendering. I'm hoping.
A nuance is the way that low-amplitude electrical noise interacts with the quantization steps of the ADC: A finer res ADC does, by itself, improve one aspect of noise: Any signal voltage nominally at an exact ADC step threshold will permit any tiny amplitude of noise to produce one whole bit change at the ADC output (0.4% FS for 8-bit ADC), whereas that same signal nominally midway between ADC step thresholds would need a noise amplitude of over half a step (0.2% FS) to affect the digitized value.
When the ADC is 12-bit, at least those amounts change to 0.024%FS (size of steps, sometimes unwanted) and 0.012%FS (worst case required to register), which should be a good improvement in hiding the noise that's not significant, and displaying more proportionately the noise that is worth seeing. As long as the limited res of the screen doesn't water down the effect.
Lovely review Dave, count me in for a in-depth full review, cheers and thanks!.
Merci for this video. Interesting by a FFT demonstration.
Thanks for this great review and get well soon!
I bought a Rigol DHO 924S because I need a small Formfactor, cheap and good performing scope.
I thought I'll regret that I bought such an expensive "Low-Level" Scope, but compared with the 1204X HD I'm really glad that I bought the Rigol.
The missing HDMI is unacceptable, the fixed Sample-Memory / Sample-Rate ratio is awful as well.
I think they're asking too much money for this Product.
Don't get me wrong: It's a wonderful scope, but compared to other Manufactures, not that remarkable.
MORNSUN is 金升阳 in Chinese. It focus on power supply. The famous one is the small isolated power module, such as 5V to 5V. I use them sometimes in my company.
Really looking forward to a fulle review, on the verge of buying one.
A full review and comparison with the 2000 version would be amazing and extremely useful!
SDS2000X HD is the better instrument all day long in every respect. Smart fan, fixed mem option, 500 MHz design, better probes, better system clock, internal AWG, professional grade LA/MSO probe as an option. They are also on promotion until June 30 2024 offering a heavily discounted option bundle with a new purchase.
Love the pentode T-shirt!🙂
Same :)
It seems to be missing the most important feature...the Siglent Rust!
Like the Tek I have has ?
No HDMI this is more than a missed chance. Imagine teaching at a school and nobody has a chance to properly see what was going on.
You could still use the wb interface, but yeah, existing HDMI projectors etc
Yeah, I have an older (still nice) Siglent, and the web view of the scope is pretty nice, would be fine for most class purposes. In that regard way better than the conceptually similar Rigol feature. Also useful for conveniently capturing scope images to drop into documentation.
@@EEVblog One feature that can make Rigol name their price. Imagine somebody would made a screen-less scope, perfect input amplifiers and sampling whilst allowing you to bring your own 4k monitor and your favourite mouse to drive it. Would turn Bob into an new type of uncle!
But it would be easily confused with the SBUS port.
@@LawpickingLocksmithR&S has got you covered :D
screenless scopes are more intended for production testing ofc, and using the web interface on the computer that you're doing the work on is more comfortable anyways
There are air bubbles in the screen lamination on your 1000X, I'd send anything back with that failure.
This are from screen protector. You can remove it. The scope screen is matte.
It's been a long time since the last teardown!
Hi Dave,
Do you have any idea when the review of the SDS800X HD is coming?
if you were removing a feature to make use more intuitive for beginners i would hope that the functionality would be available somewhere in some other menu to the benefit of advanced users. if that is the reasoning.
Bought one after yours review, thx
Can't have the vertical controls under the channels? Maybe I want my oscilloscope to be wide.
According to the datasheets, both have the same (low) display resolution. However, to me the 2000 looks way nicer (font rendering with anti-aliasing perhaps?). I guess the dual-duty CPU in the 1000 limits the display output. That would also explain the visibly slower updates (even though apparently more wfs are captured).
I always tought that Samxon capacitors were OK. But yeah, I guess the well known A-brands are a safer bet.
would love a full review. Especially the UI responsiveness. I am about to place an order... 1000 x HD ? 3000x HD? something else ?
Thanks for the teardown!
Siglent 800 vs. Rigol 800 would be nice.
19:29 the older one must have a more powerful math processor, so it can update quicker even when showing all the measurements on the screen. If you turn off measurement view, likely it gets faster.
Using an HDMI connector for a serial bus? Wow.
Cost saving.
i remember once upon a time netgear switches using hdmi connectors for 10GBe uplink lol
luckily that didnt last beyond one product generation
For a moment I was expecting common sense. But room for legacy usb at the back!
Revising my earlier incorrect comment: Apparently this "SBUS" is not simply individual digital wires for the MSO feature. Evidently for this scope there's an outboard module (SLA1016 ) that provides the interface to 16 digital connections, and concentrates that into this SBUS connection. As a high-data-rate signal, I guess it has the same sort of electrical requirements as HDMI, hence Siglent's reuse of that type of connector and cables. (Not unlike serial ports that use RJ45 or RJ11 connectors, or foot pedals that use "phone" jacks.)
@@norbert.kiszka Also a low cost well behaved response connector, that is specified to handle nearly 1GHz clock rates, and which has multiple suppliers as well, with near identical products. Good number of insert cycles as well, cheaper than making your own.
I like Siglent, but the Sbus on the HDMI connector is unsettling
well yes of course we want a full review, did you expect us not to?
Is there a second screen protector? I swear there are bubbles on the screen still after removing the factory screen protector.
Yes. Mine had so many bubbles that i was forced to remove it from beginning. Anyway a bench scope shouldn't need a screen protector. Glossy screen are worst to watch than a mate screen as this scope have.
Metal handle is nice. They should just make the whole exterior case metal.. That big ass shield encompasses the whole thing anyway.
Dave, please do a complete review like you probably had planned before getting a cold.
1500€ - costs equally to all my equipment (oscilloscope, welder stations, thermal imager, flash/eeprom programmer, microscope, lab power supply, etc)🤣
How nice, a teardown. Dave are you going to do a giveaway? The pentode t-shirt, lots of stuff
Hello Dave, how is the full review coming along?🤓
HDmI output please Siglent!
We are getting older, we need big screen to se the bloody 12bit waveforms 😂
You can take the web interface and show it as large as you like!
Webserver via a PC works really well and allows for full remote control. Every possible operation can be done via a mouse just as it can when its directly connected to the scope.
@@tautech8196 I totally forgot this…
You are right. Thus option works…But still, a dumbo screen can be find in the dumpster, and has no boot time, etc…
Is just more convenient.
Not too shabby for a digital oh-silly-scope! I'd check it out and tell friends about it. Good thing they fixed the microphonics.
You got a pixellated pentode on your tee - where did you get it? Gets the vacuum tube witch seal of approval.
Got it in the Mailbag
@@EEVblog nice! When was i? I'll look for a video because I don't recall watching this one.
seems like the packaging is not styrofoam, but polyethylene foam
Hello. How loud is the fan noise? Is it comparable to sds2000x HD?
If I received this device in the mail, it would be going right back to the factory. Those air bubbles under the front faceplate are totally unacceptable for a new, full price unit. The first thing running through my mind is that this is a refurb that had an unskilled tech replace the LCD screen... nope. just no.
Perhaps you can answer a question for me. I bought a new Siglent scope a while back, model SDS1052DL+. I work on vintage audio gear, and have used analog scopes all my life. Why is it that this digital scope cannot do something as simple as display the eye pattern from a CD player? Even just watching the audio output of an amplifier is a channel, as there is a lot of problems syncing and also there seems to be quite a bit of latency. Am I doing something wrong, or did I buy a pile of crap?
The SDS1052DL+ is a very low end scope, and hence slow.
@@EEVblog I believe I know a thrift store that's going to end up with it because I have a 40 year old analog scope that will blow it out of the water.
@@ScottGrammerif you're going with a marine-based metaphor, I'd certainly say the 40-year-old scope would be a supremely better anchor! But seriously, despite several digital scopes, i do loves me my Tek 465!
@@Graham_Wideman Simply put, the old analog scope does exactly what I need. I just have to clean the switches once in a while. The new one is wholly incapable of displaying an eye pattern from a CD player, and it can barely display the waveform from two audio channels at once. And despite being "low end," it cost $300, and for that I expect competency up to at least 5 or 10 MHz, which is all it takes to display an eye pattern. Since it's supposedly a 50MHz scope, I assumed (wrongly) that it could do that. It appears that the problem is that the scope I bought has no intensity grading and not enough memory for the display. Oh, well. Live and learn. Anybody need a $300 digital boat anchor?
@@ScottGrammer Right. A digital scope is not a faithful replica of an analog scope, emulating a CRT, it's a different instrument with its own separate features. The main benefit to a digital scope is that it has digital storage and does not require a repeated waveform to capture and display a signal. Consequently, it does not have the built in shortcoming of an analog scope of a CRT with some short amount of persistence and no erasure mechanism. That shortcoming is an accidental benefit for the eye diagram display. But on digital scopes it is only replicated as a special feature, typically on scopes that also have intensity grading, as you noted. Your surprise at not getting this "basic capability" on a digital scope would be like a digital scope user being shocked that their newly acquired analog CRT scope lacks the "basic" capability of showing the signal before the trigger (on non-repeating waveforms).
So unfortunately this scope was a poor choice for this particular task. That said, I rather doubt that it has trouble displaying two channels of audio, though the low end scopes may not have the prettiest displays due to limited screen resolution.
But in general this particular scope at $300 does not seem like a good deal compared to applying that amount of money to any of several modestly more expensive scopes that are much better. I have had a lot of good use out of my Rigol DS1054Z, currently at $350 or so, and according to EEVBlog posts can do the eye diagram (I haven't tried it). In the $750 to $2000 range I prefer the Siglent line for some particular features, notably the web UI.
So why don't I want to buy Rohde & Schwarz ??
I'm hoping that they'll send you one of the 3k or even 7k 12bit series some day, as I've been eying them for a cost effective upgrade at work over our win xp based teledyne lecroy from the before-times (the noise and booting times...urgh). I'd really like to know how they build these different. Saw them on their (quite large) booth on the embedded world in germany and couldn't resist and check their knobs - not the best but definitely better :P Though I have to say, it's really weird that the 3/7k still seem to use the old digital signal probes and they only changed that design on the 800 and 1k... the 7k is also the only one that has an HDMI port, probably because it's essentially build on a PC platform.
SDS6000 models provide HDMI outputs also.
@@tautech8196 I was comparing them under the premise of recently released/reworked and being 12 bit, which the SDS6000 isn't afaik, well it also has a high res mode, but according to the manual that cuts down your effective bandwith to 0.028*Sample_Rate if you want to push the 8 bit architecture to 12 bit.
@@ignispurgatorius5297 Well all SDS6000 models in China are all10&12bit and we could well ask if they and western models share the same HW and I strongly suspect they do. On the China website all SDS6000 models, 4&8ch versions are listed as 12bit. An interesting exercise for possible hackability.
AWG seems AWOL! So far as I can tell, the AWG option (cheapish at $135) just adds the capability to control an external AWG over ethernet (like an SDG-series unit) from the scope's screen. What the heck is the point of that? Maybe the option adds a few additional waveforms you can load to the AWG?
Maybe related -- the scope literature advertises that it can perform automatic transfer function to produce a Bode plot. This presumably requires the scope to ramp the external AWG hardware across the frequency range of interest, and need not even invoke a UI for the AWG on the scope screen -- I sure hope it doesn't require the AWG option just to send commands to the actual AWG.
Now signal generators or AWGs built-in to scopes are often awkward to use, because you often want to twiddle with the AWG settings while watching results on the scope... and you can't do that if the AWG UI is plastered on the scope screen. So obliging the AWG to be separate from the scope is certainly a respectable position. But then advertising and selling an AWG option when the scope doesn't actually have an AWG seems a bit confusing, when other scopes with AWG options actually provide an AWG. Am I missing something?
Siglent DSO's with Bode plot capability take control of the AWG for the stimulus sweep. It's full plug and play with any Siglent AWG and no AWG licensing is required to do Bode plots.
@@tautech8196 Thanks for that comment, good to know about not needing the AWG license for bode plot. For completeness, there are other Siglent scopes (including my SDS2104X-Plus) that do have an AWG built-in. Hence the SDS1204X HD AWG option description is confusing. But as I noted, the built-in AWG is not necessarily a win.
@@Graham_Wideman AWG option for the lower cost scopes comes in 2 parts, the HW and SW licensing. The optional MSO/LA is the same. Your X Plus uses the far better SPL2016 LA probe assembly. There is a DIY thread for these in the EEVblog forum.
@@tautech8196 Thanks again for your reply. Not the main subject of this thread, but when you say "the far better SPL2016 LA probe"... far better than what?
Why does it look so close to the Rigol DHO Series?
We need to see if it’s truly 12-bits or the ENOB is 10-bits?
Datasheet spec: ENOB *1 (typical) 8.4-bit
I wonder if there will be 4 channel 200MHz 14 bit hobby oscilloscopes coming out very soon at similar prices? The power and prices are most exciting. 😎 Thank you Dave.
Yes, HDMI is something I think is nice for lectures and just playing around.
14 bits is 16k resolution. You got a screen that is 16k pixels tall?
@@Graham_Wideman people can save the waveforms which then allow you to really take advantage of the extra data, though i agree that if you have 12 bit its likely more than enough.
@@Graham_WidemanMost 8-bit scopes can't capture microvolt-level signals with any respectable quality because of their resolution, input offsets, and ADC noise. Some struggle with low-millivolt signals. 12-bit scopes are a significant improvement, but I believe 14 or 16-bit scopes will eventually be the reasonable limit. When you're cranking up the gain to see small signals, the screen resolution matters very little compared to your ADC resolution and noise floor.
@@asm_nop But range switching is mostly performed by adjusting the gain of the input amplifiers, not by the firmware using just a subset of the ADC range (though the latter might apply to the very finest range or two, in which case I agree with your point.)
The Owon XDS3000-E series is 14 bit and in the same price range. Sample rate plummets to a mere 100MSa/s in 14 bit mode though. I wouldn't bother.
Looks like there's another layer of film to peel off
One day (when I'm a lot better at electronics) I'll have a scope like this. But for now my little 2n1 hand held one will do. 😊
P.S. not having ports is an old trick to get you to buy bigger better (more expensive) model 😅
nice
Ah hell, when did they make black ones? Mines creamy. That one is way prettier than mine.
Black spray paint is cheap and sticks good!
To signify the 12 bit range. In time the SDS2000X HD range will go to the dark scheme also.
I need this
If they didnt put the calibration sticker over a screw hole you would never need to calibrate it again.
No feature is free. It's just included
Meanwell _used_to be a reputable power supply vendor in my eyes.
Now we are having their PSUs failing and drifting left and right in our equipment that uses many third party modules in there and very often they use meanwell and very often they fail.
I have an SDS800XHD series, microphonic interference on the frontend exists.
Full Review Full Review Full Review!!!
its got two adc but still halves the samplerate when 2 channels are turned on? that was the reason to get the siglent x-e over a rigol back then as it had 1gs/s even with two channels turned on or does it only have 2x 2gs/s when using channel 1 + 3 or 2+4?
[Edit] I'm now not so sure what the reason is for the sample-rate limitations for this scope (SDS1204X HD). The spec sheet shows: One channel mode: 2 GSa/s,
Two channel mode: 1 GSa/s, Four channel mode: 500 MSa/s. So that seems like the bottleneck is not the ADCs, but rather downstream from there. In which case, if you want to use two channels, it should not matter which two you pick. But I was not able to find that written down.
There are two independent ADC's in each package. Look at the datasheet
@@ninethirtyone4264 Which datasheet are you talking about?
@@Graham_Wideman 10:34. 2 GSa/s interleaved or 1 GSa/s dual ADC, per each ADC.
@@ninethirtyone4264 OK ADC12D1000. The chip appears to have two independent ADCs and I think the datasheet says you can run them both at full bandwidth. But it has the option to multiplex the digital output to a single LVDS channel, and that could be the constraint in this scope. But the additional halving of scope sample rate with 4 channels suggests the bottleneck is downstream in the FPGA processing.
is video speed 1.00?
Ah dunno imho HDMI might be nice to have but it's one of this features that you either always need, or never.
And Siglent's web interface is nice.
For the price, it's really a shame how much they seemed to cheap out.
close to $1,000 difference between this and the 2000X? That is some BS. Mean Wells are obviously another $600 and the additional known name cap the additional $400 /s
In the USA, on. Amazon, it’s $698 4/26/2024
Wrong model
Too cheap, must be a different model.
This was the old 8 bit model -SDS1024X-E
@@Psi117 ok, the 12 bit version is not on Amazon when I searched.
18:03 The only test a oscilloscope needs
SDS1000X HD 70 μVrms noise floor where the 2000 500 μVrms 🤷🏻♂️
the duck's guts? uhhh... don't you throw away a duck's guts?
😍😍
finally
Hi from thailand
These scopes
"Haitch"???
1699$ and they can’t get the bubbles out under the screen 😭😭😭😭😭
too bad it doesn't have an HDMI out... Rigol FTW on that one
Big clunky case, could be half as thin and lighter !
off topic
and people complains about why dp isnt taking off
yeah because people wants hdmi
technology cant move on because one industry wants dp but another wants hdmi, and nobody can settle on one
so instead we get 1 hdmi with 3 dp on graphics cards and then nobody uses the dp ever because most monitors dont have em, and we have people preaching about how good dp is and how hdmi should be obsolete, but then new products still do hdmi which other people expects them to have lol
IMHO: Use DP where possible; HDMI is my second choice, or, to put in other words, DP is best, HDMI is better than nothing.🤓
Maybe it's just the screen refresh rate that's lower on the 1000.
too critic friend , paz!!!!!!!!!
Really cheaply made and too expensive for what you get. Waveform frame rate looks like 13fps. Instead of blowing 1500 euros on this i will save my money and get something better. This is basically a low end arm chip running linux, a cheap fpga , and two decent 12 bit ADC.
Anyone have an older 2 channel 8bit you would give me?
no hdmi... finito
3:50 SORRY But ALL These New Texurized plastics And That Handle SUCK EVERYTHING used to be BABY BUTT Somooth And Soft And Smooth That's THE STANDARD REASON EVERYTHING Is Rough THESE Days Is BECAUSE THEY don't want to spend money sanding SO NO ROUGH HANDLE IS A JOKE
Say what.. 20:55 Ofcourse you shall do a video on these units, and hopefully on the main channel, its your primary content ain it.... and why your getting these expensive scopes? Ain't it?
- or do China just ship you item to thousands of dollars to help to you fund your kids thrue school.
A half-baked video where I fully understand your sick but also validating close to nothing on this new Siglent unit.. really ain't it..
Test these scopes merits & compare them to others, your one of the few that actually can compare all of them head to head / brand to brand' as your get them like candy, and then deliver content to us your loyal subscribers & who are financing you.. that is why we are subscribed to this channel for so many years.. Its not to see a talking head "busting" solar roadways somewhere on the planet and blowing your own nose.
If your main YT channel ain't for testing new interesting scope products that your clearly are asking for, since you got them in bulk, then Im curious what are EEVblog YT channel intended for?
As relevant today as it was back then. th-cam.com/video/EMPRf2K0qSM/w-d-xo.html
A proper comprehensive review video is a massive undertaking in time, and I produce over two dozen different types of videos. The curse of being an eclectic channel. Those debunking videos are popular BTW, often more popular then review videos. And yeah, I'll be feeding an oscilloscope to my kids tonight. If you gave two seconds to think about what you just said, you'll realised that to do an extensive comparison review I have all the other scopes to compare it with, I can't just go sell them to feed the kids.
Websters dictionary entry for "Entitled"
哈哈哈哈
what crap layout 14:30
first
Yummy
Siglent Sucks. Get a keysight and be done with it
You Paying? If so, get a TEK and R&S while you're at it.
Nobody is going to follow advice to spend 3+ times the price of this scope that is completely unsubstantiated and quantified in units of "suck". But while we're on the subject, you know what sucks? Keysight's web interface and network software.