REMEBER: don't go harassing the store. I've got a couple people claiming that people are calling up the store to harass them. I dont know how true this is, and I think it goes without saying, but don't be a dickhead. This ban list is fascinating and funny, but I don't know why anyone would want to give the people that work there any hassle over it.
Saying that it's "fascinating and funny" when the tone you have the entire time is that they're stupid idiots devoid of reason doesn't sound very compelling, nor does the introductory "not trying to shit on any individual" when you very clearly are. The people who call up the store are pretty much you but without a youtube channel they can use to talk behind peoples' backs. You're definitely an instigator. You could take the "fascinating" angle by talking with the store and ask how they set their rules. If the players there have involvement in it, how strict they are about it, if they're open to someone using Tamiyo's ult if it happens organically and not as a doubling season combo. But that's not what you do because it doesn't create as much engagement as anger farming. This is the content you make and the inevitable and entirely foreseeable consequence of it. Have some integrity.
@@siri7005 He isn't giving them some special treatments. Most of his videos have a negative tone. The point of the video is that when you alter a format so far, you create something else. And it is the opinion of the average person in magic that this is, not in fact magic. It's a power trip. If people have fun playing inside the power trip, then great! We aren't there, we are on the internet. Don't harass the store. Don't even harass the creator or people who perpetuate this version of magic. But hopefully they at least acknowledge that different people have different opinions and can be more open minded in the future. It's fascinating and funny. We are laughing at you, mr. or mrs. "bans momir vig".
@@protoman0027 None of that tells me anything I don't already know; I know exactly what tone the channel tends to have. I am just pointing out how disingenuous his comments are. And just to be clear, it's not "in fact not magic", it is in opinion. Mocking people behind their back also doesn't make you any better. It's things you teach children at age, what, 6? Making fun of people behind their back is wrong.
@@protoman0027 There is just no need to name the store or the location for any of this content piece - even if you want to do a negative tone about this and think it's a power trip or whatever....nothing was gained by naming the store or acting as if it was surprising that anyone online would harass them over this, if you called out the store specifically
Calling out a local card shop for implementing a set of custom commander rules in this manner is a strange premise for a video and could potentially harm a small business. Perhaps a more generic video discussing how some shops have custom rule sets for commander would have been a better approach than targeting a specific shop. My question to you is why would you post this video in the first place knowing full well that shop was going to get harassed? And to claim you didn’t know this would be the outcome of the video cannot be the case, you should know better.
my play groups only house rule is that when youre casting gamble, if you discard the card you searched for, you have to tell the table, so that we can get a good laugh in at your expense
@@rickchamp1725 like geen with less lands, white with no life link, blue with no quick spells, black with not murder spells and red with out burn spell. Now that is a handicap for everyone.
For real, its not that hard to read a table and play a fair match, I even once bought a precon to play out of box because I got in a pod with decently new players playing lightly upgraded precons. It was fun because I didn't know my full decklist and just went with the flow of the cards I had and was about to swing the game heavily in my favor but the store closed. All that to say, draconian rules kill fun, while talking to the table and getting a read on what will be fun to play in the pod you have is what really creates a good game.
What’s hilarious is that mimeoplasm is in a precon. So how if you’re a new player and you buy that precon from thunder junction were they to know that it’s banned in that store😭
At first I was like "Okay three formats for people who like different things in commander is okay and fine. Then "Some of the rules like no infinites makes sense. I don't really agree but sure." Then the errates and the banlist are insane. Like imagine you want to try this local game store for the first time and they throw this huge list of rules and bans so none of your decks you love to use are legal.
I dont have a deck without these 172 Cards and I dont know anyone with deck without this cards. So would love a see a match with this bans ... just for curious reasons.
The ban list must have been created by someone who has suffered from these cards and has terrible trouble losing, but our kitchen table rules also include prohibiting excessive land destruction and infinite combos. Apart from that, we follow the official ban list.
lmoa, why didn't they just Doubling Season if they hate superfriends so much? edit: wait they really did lmao. But they let Kaldheim Vorinclex be for some reason.
I was going to say maybe someone snuck telepath unbound backwards into their deck and cascaded into it once, but then remembered that Cascade is banned -_-
Not sure if it's that. It might be someone who is longing for the good old days of Commander, where you would just sit around the table shooting the shit, not really paying attention to the game for rounds on end, and then just boardwipe when things got out of hand. But the game has moved on from that, no matter how many cards you ban. Games don't go into the double digit rounds any more, and if you don't play interaction, you deserve to be stomped out by a voltron commander early or watch the extra-turn finish play out. One of my all time-decks that I have basically had from day one and kept upgrading since is a mono-red combo deck. Since the start, it has aquired very solid ramp, several ways of graveyard recursion, the card-draw is improved and become much more consistent, and the average CMC, which already started fairly low, went down even further. Trying to keep up with this development via a banlist is just pointless. Adapt or get out, the past is in the past.
To their credit, I think an "unaltered precon format" is a great idea. I also played with a group that banned Blightsteel Colossus because I kept stealing it with Bribery. Fantastic stuff.
WOW, that was so immature of them. Banning the card you've been using in bad faith just because you got a taste of your own medicine when someone used it against you. Pretty much "how to never grow up 101"
More context needed. Are they cheating out the Colossus? How fast can it usually come out. The ban is almost 100% dependent on other power level expectations involved. Bribery is a messed up card, but in a formal full of messed up cards.
@@GollyGoshSensation Somewhat here you and power-level dependent. If my ten drop actually comes out on turn 8-10 usually and you make it show up turn 4-5, yeah, that's a feels bad. But otherwise I do hear ya.
Combine Elesh Norn and living plane. Lands return and are killed due to state based effects. The infinite combo relies on the rule regarding lands coming back. The land destruction rule gets exiled by the no combo rule.
Nah, you created an infinite loop out of elesh norn and your opponents lands. So, elesh norn and your opponents lands get exiled. This would be a problem, but the rule stating that lands get returned specify that it has to be from an effect that an opponent controls. Since the infinite loop rule is not an effect controlled by anyone, they remain exiled.
Three things I find especially hilarious about all of this: 1.) Teferi being banned and erata'd, that's peak comedy right there. 2.) The fact that there are multiple cards on their ban list that are on the official EDH ban list. 3.) There are multiple cards that they banned that are clearly cards they felt were too powerful due to some kind of combo, but then you'll notice a lot of their combo pieces are also banned for some reason. Like they banned Anje which I stupidly thought was because one guy got Worldgorgered, and then later on in the 172 card ban list we see they also banned Worldgorger. But then you also remember that infinite combos are already inherently banned and I just can't man, shit's too funny.
@@anthonydelfino6171 yes chain veil teferi never used -10, -1 and +1 means you draw your deck and get infinite mana... and cvt fell out of competitive meta 5+ years ago, not that it was any significant portion of the meta.
@@anthonydelfino6171 yup. i think someone went through cedh metagame breakdown from ~10 years ago and blanket banned most of the top commanders without thinking too much.
@darthcinnabon don't forget the other rules that only let a commander deal damage based on its printed value, thus really negating any modifiers on it.
That actually sounds more interesting than this lmao. Like imagine doing that format for a 5 years of weekly games and seeing how different the meta was? With non salt-lords, obviously. But it would kinda be a fun creative experiment if everyone was down.
@@jadegrace1312 But there are so insanely many magic cards, as long as people didn't just set out to break it, I think that's fine. I mean, if every time every player bans a legendary creature, it's not going to take too long before you can't play commander any more. The concept is really cool, and places where it's going to get ridiculous fast you could just modify it. Instead of each player picking a ban, each player puts in a vote for a ban, and each week the top 5-20 cards in that shop are added to the ban list. And maybe have events around it to separate it from "casual" games. You've got to keep the regular scene pretty simple. Would hate for people to buy their first commander deck, and then no one will play with them because 10 of its cards have been banned.
@@Dnallohes soooo you are saying that you would need additional rules to make people not try to break your fragile rules system? and ultimately... why? why fix something that works perfectly fine as it is?
As someone who always has a hard time finishing building a deck, I can't imagine coming into the store to play a game, having one of my favorite mildly powerful commander banned as a result, and ever coming back again.
Glad you covered this place. They're about 20 minutes from me. I went once pre-covid to but some singles and I picked them and then they started re pricing them as the owner took them out, which I told them I didn't want them anymore at that price, and I got belittled for it. So dumb lmao
Yeah, ive been there as well. Im about 2 and a half hours away from it but ive been when i was out that way about a year ago. It really feels like angry pissbaby energy and the guys playing in there really didnt seem like they wanted to be there lol
I find it notable that through all of the blanket mechanic bans and what seems to be some spite ones, fast mana is not part of it. Someone clearly doesn't want their expensive Mana Crypts and Ancient Tombs that they have in every deck to go to waste. The planeswalker erratas also point towards somebody having a field day with superfriends. Also, they haven't lost to Moonshaker Cavalry yet, so someone get on that. Craterhoof At Home is still a finisher.
Yeah, it's really weird, other than Thassa's Oracle they didn't include any of the cards I'd think of if I were making a supplemental banlist for Commander. Dockside Extortionist, Lion's Eye Diamond, Gilded Lotus, Mana Vault, the Beta dual lands, all the free interaction cards like Force of Will and Fierce Guardianship, all just fine at this store apparently. But don't come to this store with a Taigam; that's just a bridge too far! I also find it hilarious that they banned Rule of Law but not Arcane Laboratory.
@@billvolk4236 So I wasn't the only one thinking that? Like, who the hell does a custom ban list but does not ban Mana Crypt? The only reason that thing is not banned is because it fills WotC's pockets!
This game store is in my local community. I have played there. I know the owner. This list exists purely because the owner gets salty when those cards are played against him and he can't pub stomp folks. Also, the sheer amount of spite play in the room is appalling.
I’m curious how fast I can get Nekuzar Wheels banned with Sheoldred and Bowmaster. Deck doesn’t go infinite, but getting wheeled twice behind counter spells/stax pieces sure does feel like it with how much damage it does.
This is so hilarious to watch. I live pretty close to this store and was thinking about trying to play there. Had no idea they had such an oddball rules list. Hard pass.
@@lillianoftheveil I already have it built and if tergrid goes I can promise 3-5 other cards get banned with it... Dictate of erebos, painful quandary, grave pact, krrik, archfiend of depravity, geths grimoire, dark deal, smoke stack, desolation, oppression.... Take your pick for what they keep me from playing.... I'll switch out the commander for game two after a couple gets banned, they will be in for a grindier game because they took my main win con so now it's just grind and slow beats
These lists are always funny because they're full of casual commander pet peeves, but not ALL of them. You could sleeve a theft deck up that would skate right under all these rules, they hit some of stax but missed Tangle Wire and most of the hatebears like Drannith Magistrate or any of the Torpor Orb effects, Smothering Tithe somehow has dodged it so far, and so on. Sisyphus must run this store, because they will never be done writing this list.
This really does ooze of Power trip vibes. Feels like a situation where whoever makes the banlist/rules adds new rules/errata/bans whenever they lose to something. That's the only way Teferi gets both an errata (after it fucks over the person in power once) and is banned (second time it fucks them over). Same with the cascade sliver, which was probably banned first, then cascade was deleted and the cascade sliver (now a vanilla creature) is just never taken of the list because maintaining a ban list of 170+ cards is probably to much work for someone with little to no game design experience.
I can just imagine the saltiest player on earth getting up from the table after losing a game, running over to the computer, and updating this ridiculous ban list with whatever cards they just lost to 🤣
3:30 A commander's max combat damage per combat phase cannot exceed the commander's printed attack value, so... "I hit you with my Adeline, Resplendent Cathar". "That's 4 combat damage, but how much of it is commander?" "Star."
@@Blomstermark * determines base power snd toughness, and as such the number it represents changes as the game state changes. If you have only Adeline, * is 1, if you have a small army * is 21 The rule, indirectly, buffs legends like Chromium the Mutable, who can take a small p/t debuf, voltron a bunch of equipment, and still deal 7 commander damage there
One of my LGSs had a rule where if someone lost with a Wandering Towershell in exile, they had to pin the card up on the wall "Because it wandered away and never found its way back"
@@MythicMythos9 I believe so. That card is a meme (and at the same time one of he best flavor wins in the entire game) because it's supposed to be a turtle so slow it's only ever gonna hit you after a turn. I believe the joke is likely that, if by the time the turtle arrives the game is already finished, it is never gonna find its way back home again.
Oh, lord these are embarrassing. Even if I were personally this salty about all these different things, the idea of telling everyone "yes, I think magic is BETTER like this" fills me with profound shame.
I knew a guy that had like a 1000 word rulelist on playing EDH with him online, stuff like "add 20 life to any effects requiring a certain lifetotal (Soul Ascendant for example)" This wasn't made to nerf the game, he intentionally played broken cards and infinite combos, just nerf decks that he didn't like. Had the gall to wonder why I stopped playing when he was at the table, lol
This is absolutely insane, and i would really love to build a Liesa lifegain deck or an avacyn deck with 40 boardwipes and win every single game that I play in that store until they kick me out just to prove those rules are mental
thats probably what these guys are playing. and why those cards are banned im betting this is a "we make the rules so we do this so we always win not because its fair. "
Something that the groups I play in tend to do is just disclose if a gross combo or insta win is in the deck. Even when there’s a disparity in power level, it’s a lot nicer to go into the game knowing what we’re dealing with. Just a “btw I have (time sieve (Tivit), Thassa’s oracle, sanguine bond, etc.) in here.” People are generally happier with the outcome when they know that that’s a possibility and aren’t blindsided. Also, why is Oona banned, she’s in multiple precons. Very silly.
If you have a power 4 deck with a 2 cards infinite that wins the game, the other people will attack you as if you had a power 10 deck. And even if the other 3 players are also playing a power 4 deck, you're not winning the 1v3
@@laytonjr6601 the groups I play in try to be a bit more cautious of that, so I understand that it may not work for everyone. In my experience, we usually chat a bit about what we’re going into to figure out what strategies best complement each other and will create an interesting game with cool interactions and that no one person steamrolls or gets steamrolled. Also, we try to communicate throughout the game to make sure that it stays fun because it sucks to get ganged up on when you’re not an in game threat.
The *bespoke* rules: you can't go infinite! Also the bespoke rules: *bans everything that goes infinite and bans the cards that are only a problem when you can go infinite in the first place*
Yeah, it's so obviously put together by someone with almost no clue what they're doing. I doubt they even playtested these rules ahead of time before implementing them.
@@underscore_5450 honestly I think the real story is that they started making bans and rules over the years and never cared to recheck the banlist based on their own logic
"A combo is infinite if an event is repeated more than 5 times" Me: so the rule change is a player has to stop the infinite after 5 loops? LGS: all cards in the infinite are EXILED after A SINGLE LOOP I would build a deck that creates infinites to force this rule to exile all my opponent's permanents
After re-watching this, it's even more hilarious as PK is going though the ban list and hits a random commander and I know exactly who played the deck that got it put on the list 🤣🤣🤣
For a few weeks they added a rule saying players couldn't draw more than 1 extra card per turn and it was so poorly received they had to remove it because said owner didn't like people drawing cards in his pods. 🤣🤣🤣
What the fuck. What's next? A cap on how much damage you can deal each turn? A cap on how many spells or effects you're allowed to resolve? A token creature limit that forces you to start saccing them after you have more than 5? Jesus christ
I saw this list on Reddit a couple of weeks ago and it has been altered multiple times. It was my “go to LGS” i would skip all this nonsense level at all and either stick with pre cons or “no restrictions” rather than brewing something only to find out that some rule has changed again.
When simply asking people to use their better judgement to create a good play experience just isn't enough, the next option should obviously be to have their deck take the EDH Michigan state bar exam
Let's be perfectly fair, card games aren't known for players trying to create an enjoyable experience. At my LGS they occasionally have community expanding events they don't charge for tournaments, sell old commander decks to new players for a discounted rates and the purpose is to get kids interested in the game. In my pod, there was a kid (10 or so) so the store owner comes over and tells us "hey he's new, go easy on him". A 50ish year old man with gray hair proceeded to Kaalia + MoC the kid on turn 2.
I remember reading a LFG that someone shared from reddit where the DM was looking for a group... and banned all forms of darkvision. Down to subclasses and classes that have ways of getting darkvision, heavily limiting the species you can use, replacing dark vision with skill proficiencies, and making you unable to throw torches or objects with the "Light" spell on it. Light and torches can be used but they must stay on your person. Arcane Archer got banned because it has the ability to make ranged light.
I don't necessarily like my players all having dark vision, but if they want to get clever and cast light on an arrow or something, in all for it. Restrictions are supposed to breed creativity, not stifle it.
I couldn't help but notice that despite having a triple digit banlist, landfall and enchantress, two infamously powerful archetypes at casual level, got *almost* zero bans at all. Kess, Dissident Mage is too much for casual players but apparently Tatyova is 100% A-OKAY
The stereotypical aggressively casual commander player loves long games of solitaire, so this type of strategy is acceptable. High powered decks aren't the problem, any player winning the game is.
My lgs temporarily had a ban list made by one of the locals, which repealed after the first tournament, when the guy who made it screamed at a minor for playing Birgi and called for their disqualification because “ he meant to put it on the ban list”
This is the fault of LGS' not instituting age pools, putting a 12 year old against some mid thirties dude who'se been playing since he was twelve is asking for trouble. Sure there are plenty of kids who are fantastic at the game, and in casual it should be fine since it's casual but tournies need to be separated by age, because if I took my niece to a tournie because she was interested in trying it out, I'm not just dropping her off, I would either be playing or just hanging around the shop and if someone started screaming in her face, they'd find out very quickly what their own ass tastes like.
@@StevenTLawsonI have a 4 year old who wants to play mtg. Way to young haha but say in 5 years or so he wants to go with me to our KGS one night, I'd bring him. Now if he got screamed at by some 30 year old, well that guy has angry daddy bear to deal with. Plus 3 of my brothers play mtg. So maybe 3 angry uncles as well.
please please please build lavinia omen pool. i saw this banlist a few days ago and realized that none of the lock pieces are banned, as are many of the stax pieces. i bet you could personally get a few more cards added to this banlist
is the reason because the people who are the ones who always win play decks that these cards would hamper or kill them. i just want to know because i think its childish that they are basically doing the little kid solution of saying i have an unbreakable shield when someone attacks them in a game of make believe
As soon as I saw that rule about the split second return all lands to play beyond the first complete with the caveat for land creatures, I thought "Hey, I can cheese this with my Ashaya list, it would be invulnerable to boardwipes", only to then see about a third of my list on the banlist lol.
@@TheWaffleRadio I have a Yorion deck that's not as oppressive as it could be, but the best part about Yorion, is he gets to a state where all his game actions are triggering once per player's turn. So it skirts a lot of these rules and can quickly exile boards and lands. And the best part, my deck has 0 banned cards from this absurd list, so its ready to go XD
@@TheWaffleRadiothe solution is lavinia omen pool. it isn't infinite. it doesn't combo. it's mostly unbanned. and it absolutely stomps on any possible deck within this meta.
My old LGS had "house rule nights" where they would make building restrictions for decks. If you chose to play by those rules, you got extra prizing, but you could play with normal rules for regular prizing too.
I’ve heard of similar things at LGSes outside of EDH as well, and it seems pretty fun. You can play to win for the normal top prize or go for broke and get a little extra for your troubles.
This is, in fact, what the LGS actually does on Commander nights. They separate into tables and then declare certain tables casual or competitive. Any of the casual tables can choose to use the ban list, but don't have to; there's still rule 0 discussion. It breaks my heart a little to see all these comments shitting on the Wharf and saying that no one should ever buy things from there because my experience with the place has been super positive and they have a massive collection of cards, I've basically been able to buy any card I ever need at any time from there.
If an LGS has its own Commander Banlist, there is little reason to go there past buying cards IMO Edit: HOL' UP, THEY DIDN'T BAN THE KARN+MYCOSYNTH HARD LOCK?!
I think the more fun game is to try to find a commander deck that can still win under these insane restrictions. The most playable deck I thought of is Nekuzar Wheels with Sheoldred and Orcish Bowmaster. It’s technically not infinite and it technically abides by all the rules and regulations in place. I’m surprised Narset, Parter of Veils wasn’t banned or erata’d either, you can still hand rip with Narset + wheel combo in the grixis wheel pile lol.
@@firespirit8026 I agree to a point. Thinks like Thassa's Oracle always come off as a "feel bad" kind of loss. That list just feels like a who's who list of cards that someone lost to and got mad. FWIW my banned decks at the place: Oona, Selvala, Grand Arbiter.
@@firespirit8026the second you sit down to play Nekusar would be banned, by the sound of this shop's mentality. It honestly begs the question, What fucking decks are these people playing to abide by all these rules/bans?
I would love to rock into that store and run a Jodah the Unifier deck in this "No Cascade" format. It's not really cascade! The word is nowhere on the card and it is mechanically different.
This is amazing. Sounds like a format for me. I hate losing to my brothers decks, just because he is better att building and playing then i am. Its not fair. Also i am all ombord for just baning all playnswalkers. Thous are just way to powerful
I read the title and immediately knew he was talking about the gamers wharf. They are a store by me. Commander nights requires you to play at the "rapture" level before you play at anything else. Believe me, we make fun of them
I wish I lived in michigan because I would love to bring a deck of only swamps and shadowborn apostle and then just loudly complain how OP everyone else's deck was and how someone should reign this crazy format in
I have to ask, is is meant to be the "raptor" level, and nobody has managed to make the owner realize that, because at least that would fit, name-wise, with the theme?
I’m guessing it was less a problem with one player but 2+ as typically if you have 2 poison counter /proliferate decks, the other 2 players are a non factor unless they brought their CEDH deck to the game.
Removing ultimates is actually very interesting. Planeswalkers are already the permanent easiest to kill, but if you were playing a planeswalker and everyone at the table knew it couldn't ult, they might not attack it, so there's a chance it could make the planeswalker *more* playable.
I only play planeswalkers that care about using their first or second abilities, since I know I can't plan on ever getting the ultimate. But even then with my playgroup knowing full well I only care about getting three soldiers our of Elspeth, Sun's Champion, they're always afraid I might do something different this time and ultimate her.
Yeah tbh ulting a planeswalker (without some sort of counters shenanigans like doubling or proliferate) never happens in my playgroup unless there's some sort of stalemate, and in that case we appreciate it ending the game. Usually we just play em for utility/card advantage (Karn is nice in the 99 for red/white decks) or the ones with static abilities.
@@QobpMy friend runs Jace, memory adept in his scarab god deck and every time he plays it, he tells everyone to leave it alone so he can ultimate it so everyone draws 20 cards. The problem with this though is that his deck is so much better than everyone (it’s practically a cedh deck) and runs quite a bit of counterspells, and every time he’s successfully ults he got an omniscience. Because of this every member of our playgroup who have seen him ult jace have always tried their damnest to stop him
The problem I have with removing planeswalkers ults is that the fact that letting them tick up risks a massive board swing is what makes their gameplay engaging. "Hey, Ted's been sitting there upping Elspeth for three turns, someone ought to stop him". If there's no risk of an ultimate, their threat goes under the radar so you just get _another_ excuse for Commander players to just sit and generate value with no opposition and gum the game up for hours longer than it should because Commander players think threat management means "if it won't win the game, just ignore it". Planeswalkers NEED that ticking time bomb of "you need to interact with me or it will go poorly for you".
I was expecting the house rules to be stuff like “commander a and commander b can be partnered with each other for a deck” but this was just depressing
Pretty sure that “no extra turns” rule could be abused by bouncing and recasting Emrakul, the Promised End over and over, as after the first time your opponent is unable to get a turn after you take theirs.
If you're in Michigan and looking for a great LGS, the broken sword is a wonderful place. The owner is laid back, knowledgeable, and very cool. They have collectibles, vintage gaming, vinyls, etc. You name it. Gotta recommend it for my fellow Michiganders.
Our local game store also has 3 different pods for commander. Pre-Cons (minimally altered), mid-tier decks (so no ancient tomb, mana crypt, force of will, other really high value cards, not heavily focused on combos), and then sky's the limit pod. It's really just based on honor code. But certainly no silly "you get an emblem that says you can't take any more extra turns" or any of these other insane changes.
what?! oona queen of fae? i have a hard time getting that out without it getting immediately targeted 😂, i think this shop just looked at popular cards and decided to ban them since a lot of these cards seems that way right?
Commander damage is stupid anyways. It was some dumb rule fans created back in the day, that has stuck around since even though it Doesn't match with the rest of the rules imagine the gathering just creates an extra rule to remember for a specific format. Also it ruins ruin's life gain as a useful mechanic.
You are correct. Commander damage is a garbage rule, and it's sad to see people mindlessly defend it just because they saw that 1 time out of 2137 games someone got lucky and defeated an all-in infinite lifegain because that infinite lifegain had zero blockers, zero ghostly prison effects, zero removal.
I mean all of EDH is stupid if you think about it. They made a format where you make a deck built around one of five dragons and duke it out. There were no other “commanders” you could choose from. They figured it would be funny to have an alternative win condition if you could get three attacks in with your dragon. Then the format became more well known and well that became a mainstay of the format as an alt win. Also saying life gain isn’t a useful mechanic because a niche lose condition, is wild. Life gain still triggers effects and keeps you out of dying to anything else that isn’t the commander swinging for its 21st damage.
I feel like this has to be a constantly growing ban list. Like they play every week, and after the game the rules get updated with the winning commander and win-con added to the banlist, or a new rule added to 'fix' the winning strategy...ie. someone won with poison? Now it takes 20.
@@MichSportshave you been there? Anyone get in any arguments about it there? Gotta admit I'm pretty hot under the collar about it and I've never even been to Michigan.
@chuckwagon3718 yes I've been there many times. Usually I would just play in a curated pod for cedh. The people who go there and play in those games seem to love the ban list for the most part.
There was a "Casual Commander League" that I went to here in Michigan for a while. Here were the following rules: -No Infinite Combos -No Extra Turns -No Extra Combat -No Infect -No "You win the game" cards -Couldn't win the game before turn 5 There was a couple others, but it was wild. Turns out Lifegain was absolutely busted, I built Kenrith as an Esper Lifegain Commander because I knew I was going to be able to have turns to set up and develop a board state, as well as gain life so that I could end up using Aetherflux Reservoir to blow people up. Lmao. Being as the main way to kill people was going to be through Combat Damage or Commander damage, you just built a control package to keep the commanders in check, and you were good. With enough life, combat damage didn't matter. After a while it got pretty boring for me cause like, EDH was always something I played with my friends for fun, and this very quickly made it become not fun. :(
That is my lgs. Edit: precons/ casual is a 5$ entry with a pack a person prize winner gets 3 (most recent standard set), and Cedh is 7$ with 20 store cred for winner. People do try to win and an average game is 60-90 min.
I’m betting it only started with a few bans but that warped the game in the favour of a certain strategy thus needing them to ban more cards and so on and so on… eg. commander damage is nerfed so lifegain is really good, so of course they had to band Test of Endurance.
As someone who lives in the city where this store is at, I can't even begin to tell you how hard I was laughing as soon as I heard you were going after this. This banlist is the running meme in our commander community, and I'm so happy it's getting shit on worldwide. XD
As someone who lives in a close by city known for a week long flower fest, we’ve been laughing about that ban list for months. I can’t believe a well know creator from across the pond covered it
As a player here and often playing in this wharf casual play, I will say it’s not as terrible as it seems. Not too mention, it’s heavily influenced by the core meta group who doesn’t seem to feel that they should run interaction or removal. So it’s kind of meant to be like an intro to magic that allows for newer players to get to do the things. It definitely needs some attention and edits as the owner doesn’t even know what’s banned anymore, you’re not too far off with his personal vendetta against certain cards/combos, and there’s some redundancy that could be fixed by simplifying the rules and reducing the banned list. All in all he is doing it for the players and has regular, precon, and cedh play running alongside wharf casual. So at least the LGS in question is attempting to address their meta while still offering the every day spell slinger pods to play and compete in. However, the owner doesn’t want to put the effort in to correcting/editing what’s there and won’t let his manager touch anything without his approval as he doesn’t believe that anyone can override his lifetime of experience and understanding of the game and the business. I think it also drives sales of cards that make their way into decks design for these house rules as the owner is also driven by money more than any other aspect of the business.
The only thing we changed in our playgroup is that our mulligan is still partial paris, because it leads to less shuffling. Some of us have bad fine motor skills and it takes a long time for them to shuffle, less additional shuffles for them is good. It also helps us actually start with the right amount of lands in hand without having to struggle all game.
We pretty much just ignore mulligan rules at my table. It's basically just "find a playable 7 cards with as many mulls as is required, just don't be a dick about it and mull for something perfect" Have no interest in someone just not getting to play magic because RNG decided to dick them down to like a 2-3 card hand.
@@braddorcas9363I've heard of that rule before when I played at FNMs while on vacation. I mostly didn't bother with it and I did just fine because I built mine around being reliable under "one free mulligan". It was neat seeing Anthem Tribal, my most mid-tier fun(ny) deck in my collection, go absolutely nuts for once. Though in my defense one guy brought Yuriko but didn't seem to understand Yuriko's CEDH reputation, and so I did what had to be done. Just in case.
Wait, so what happens if someone's playing a commander with power and toughness **/** like Old Stickfingers? How much commander damage would it be allowed to deal in one swing? You know whoever made this list is a genius
I’m late, and I imagine they’d fight this ruling, but asterisks are always calculated at all times of the game. So if you need to check its current or original stat, you have to calculate what * equals. So I’d say if old stickfingers is a 5/5 from his own ability, that’s 5 commander damage because that * is -always- going to read as 5 in that boardstate. …they’ll probably say it’s 0 tho
It seems you didn't understand the first rule you read. It stated that a Command can only deal up to their printed value as commander damage while anything else they do is treated as combat damage. Getting 50k life doesn't stop me from killing you with 21 commander damage, all that does is slow down decks who as you said Voltron some bs to OHK you. It makes commander damage kills more difficult than cheesing a combo, it becomes something you work for. Limiting players to only being able to take 1 extra turn per game will massively improve everything, I'm not here to watch you masturbate for 10 minutes, I came to play the game you taking 15 extra turns, at that point I'd scoop because you're literally wasting time. At that point just say, "I win, next game" if you are able to infinitely loop extra turns The Annihilator should have just been, if the creature is able to deal combat damage to a player then it's annihilator triggers, rather than "I swing, sac your shit before you do anything else." Annihilator becomes a reward for getting your big card through rather than a way to board wipe your opponent
Okay. The only houserule I typically ask for is that less-than-legal-but-still-thematic commanders be allowed. So for example, Genju of the Realm being used as the the commander of a Lands deck (even though the commander rule demands a creature or specific planeswalkers) Or as another example, using Grimlock, Dinobot Leader as a commander for Dinosaur-Vehicle deck (whom is normally not legal on account of being silver bordered)
I think if you wanted to try out a local format that was like "UU" in Pokemon, where you ban a bunch of the best cards and see what shakes out of the resulting format, that could potentially be really fun if you figured out a good list. Adding a whole bunch of rules on top of that to try and neuter anything that could be remotely considered a negative play experience is insanity.
We have a house rule at my store where you put the cards you mulligan on a side pile each time rather than bottom and shuffle. You then bottom and shuffle once at the end. It generally just serves to make the mulligan process faster and less of a pain with such large decks.
we do the same thing and usually limit it to up to 10 cards unless you are looking for a land... i run 40 Fing lands and still get land screwed. i shuffle like crazy and they still clump
one of the stores i play at they do a vegas mulligan. draw 3 hands pick one and shuffle the rest, if those are crap then you draw the next 7 and you keep that. cuts down mulligan time so much and gives better chances of a great game honestly
I really hate the idea of this ban list because it really discourages fun and cool deckbuilding, and pushes players to only win through a combat strategy. While yes the goal of Magic is to reduce your opponent’s life total to 0 there can also be more than one way to achieve that. Even at my store I’ve had players say well you didn’t really win you just did a combo with artifacts. Like MF my commander is Breya did you think I was gonna cast Ghalta and hit you with creatures. It seems like a lot of players want to play fun creature decks that are slower but do big smash things. And there’s no problem with that. But I don’t want to do that. If you think my deck is too good then I encourage you to pick up an Urza, possibly a Demonic tutor, how about getting a cyc rift or a mana drain. Or better yet just proxy all of those and build a fun combo deck but don’t try and shit on me for playing magic the way I find most fun.
They banned so much, but not my xenagos deck, essentially nothing changed. It can compete at higher power tables, not cedh but god it would kill everyone in this format
Why ban first sliver when you already have erratta eliminating cascade. Is a generic 7/7 for WUBRG too pushed? Also there were several cards on that extended ban list that are already banned.
Only thing I agree with is banning cradle. And it’s only because I’m fine with it being allowed, but remove academy from the ban list instead. Banning the single best land in the game is dumb but fine. Allowing the second best land that’s 99% as good as the best, is just inconsistency at its best.
I find it very disgraceful how you promote the idea that we should not harass the store or the employees, but give us all of the avenues to find and contact them? That part shouldn't even matter. Very asinine behavior.
Tbh there's a bunch of things here that I'd shrug at, like having a custom banlist (the list itself is insane, but still) or making poison go to 20, or letting players not take more than one extra turn. But adding highly complicated rules patches (like their attempt to formalize "can't remove more than one land per turn") that then need more extra patches ("unless their controller animated them and they died in combat") upon patches ("except if they were forced to fight") to what's supposed to be their casual format? I'm not sure they understand the word "casual".
The wording makes it so that, by their own rules, if you reanimate all your lands and sacrifice them to an altar style effect with a way to replay them from your graveyard, you can generate near infinite landfall triggers and altar effects.
REMEBER: don't go harassing the store. I've got a couple people claiming that people are calling up the store to harass them.
I dont know how true this is, and I think it goes without saying, but don't be a dickhead.
This ban list is fascinating and funny, but I don't know why anyone would want to give the people that work there any hassle over it.
Saying that it's "fascinating and funny" when the tone you have the entire time is that they're stupid idiots devoid of reason doesn't sound very compelling, nor does the introductory "not trying to shit on any individual" when you very clearly are. The people who call up the store are pretty much you but without a youtube channel they can use to talk behind peoples' backs. You're definitely an instigator.
You could take the "fascinating" angle by talking with the store and ask how they set their rules. If the players there have involvement in it, how strict they are about it, if they're open to someone using Tamiyo's ult if it happens organically and not as a doubling season combo. But that's not what you do because it doesn't create as much engagement as anger farming. This is the content you make and the inevitable and entirely foreseeable consequence of it. Have some integrity.
@@siri7005 He isn't giving them some special treatments. Most of his videos have a negative tone. The point of the video is that when you alter a format so far, you create something else. And it is the opinion of the average person in magic that this is, not in fact magic. It's a power trip. If people have fun playing inside the power trip, then great! We aren't there, we are on the internet. Don't harass the store. Don't even harass the creator or people who perpetuate this version of magic. But hopefully they at least acknowledge that different people have different opinions and can be more open minded in the future. It's fascinating and funny. We are laughing at you, mr. or mrs. "bans momir vig".
@@protoman0027 None of that tells me anything I don't already know; I know exactly what tone the channel tends to have. I am just pointing out how disingenuous his comments are.
And just to be clear, it's not "in fact not magic", it is in opinion. Mocking people behind their back also doesn't make you any better. It's things you teach children at age, what, 6? Making fun of people behind their back is wrong.
@@protoman0027 There is just no need to name the store or the location for any of this content piece - even if you want to do a negative tone about this and think it's a power trip or whatever....nothing was gained by naming the store or acting as if it was surprising that anyone online would harass them over this, if you called out the store specifically
Calling out a local card shop for implementing a set of custom commander rules in this manner is a strange premise for a video and could potentially harm a small business. Perhaps a more generic video discussing how some shops have custom rule sets for commander would have been a better approach than targeting a specific shop. My question to you is why would you post this video in the first place knowing full well that shop was going to get harassed? And to claim you didn’t know this would be the outcome of the video cannot be the case, you should know better.
my play groups only house rule is that when youre casting gamble, if you discard the card you searched for, you have to tell the table, so that we can get a good laugh in at your expense
That's almost an unwritten rule. However there have been times where I gambled while down to just a couple of cards trying to use it like an entomb.
@@dizzyblizzy2806and whenever you do that you either discard the reanimation spell or any other spell you actually want to play. It’s the gamble curse
Yes I was going to say in my deck that runs gamble I don’t care if the card I tutored for hits the bin . I play out my graveyard anyway
Oh no! My Life from the Loam! Anyways...
what if im a reanimator deck and want that to be discarded or just dont care in general
To a very grand scale, this is the way that I feel when people want to control how and what others play. Hiding frustration under “fun” is a problem.
Blue players.
its people wanting others to play with handicaps to even powerlevels
@@rickchamp1725 like geen with less lands, white with no life link, blue with no quick spells, black with not murder spells and red with out burn spell. Now that is a handicap for everyone.
For real, its not that hard to read a table and play a fair match, I even once bought a precon to play out of box because I got in a pod with decently new players playing lightly upgraded precons. It was fun because I didn't know my full decklist and just went with the flow of the cards I had and was about to swing the game heavily in my favor but the store closed. All that to say, draconian rules kill fun, while talking to the table and getting a read on what will be fun to play in the pod you have is what really creates a good game.
"reading the car-"
the warf: "Nope, go read the sign!"
My Yuriko about to destroy the Wharf and get on the banlist.
“The storm count cannot proceed past 1” my brother in Heliod all spells count towards the storm count. It’s Rule 702.40a
That's their point; it's a house rule where that doesn't happen.
The most bonkers thing here is my Rakdos lord of riots deck is completely legal, but my jank Niv Mizzet super friends is banned to hell
Never give a men the power to ban each commander he lost a game against. Because he will do it.
What’s hilarious is that mimeoplasm is in a precon. So how if you’re a new player and you buy that precon from thunder junction were they to know that it’s banned in that store😭
At first I was like "Okay three formats for people who like different things in commander is okay and fine.
Then "Some of the rules like no infinites makes sense. I don't really agree but sure."
Then the errates and the banlist are insane. Like imagine you want to try this local game store for the first time and they throw this huge list of rules and bans so none of your decks you love to use are legal.
Every Commander deck I've ever built has been banned. And I've built hundreds of Commander decks.
I dont have a deck without these 172 Cards and I dont know anyone with deck without this cards. So would love a see a match with this bans ... just for curious reasons.
The ban list must have been created by someone who has suffered from these cards and has terrible trouble losing, but our kitchen table rules also include prohibiting excessive land destruction and infinite combos. Apart from that, we follow the official ban list.
House rules are fine, if your table agrees on them. A LGS making up house rules is very weird.
finna ninjutsu in a Phage at this game store
Just wild. Purely ridiculous.
lmoa, why didn't they just Doubling Season if they hate superfriends so much? edit: wait they really did lmao. But they let Kaldheim Vorinclex be for some reason.
9:33 why it's already hard enough to do auras
My favorite is them banning Jace, Vryn's Prodigy and the back half separately as if someone has sneakily put Jace, Telepath Unbound into play
I was going to say maybe someone snuck telepath unbound backwards into their deck and cascaded into it once, but then remembered that Cascade is banned -_-
or nerfing storm and still banning minds dilation
yeah that struck me as odd, like do they have a rule that you can cast either side for the mana cost of the front face or some weird junk.
Aree you actually suggesting that Cheatyface may be nest on the banlist?
@@WolfiplsI think you’re thinking of mind’s desire which is not banned (but does basically nothing because of the storm nerf…)
These rules were written entirely by the one local bloke who has never won a game of Commander in their life, and you can’t convince me otherwise.
And they STILL haven't won
@@DFlamebrainJust a few more bans and they'll get one!
Not sure if it's that. It might be someone who is longing for the good old days of Commander, where you would just sit around the table shooting the shit, not really paying attention to the game for rounds on end, and then just boardwipe when things got out of hand. But the game has moved on from that, no matter how many cards you ban. Games don't go into the double digit rounds any more, and if you don't play interaction, you deserve to be stomped out by a voltron commander early or watch the extra-turn finish play out.
One of my all time-decks that I have basically had from day one and kept upgrading since is a mono-red combo deck. Since the start, it has aquired very solid ramp, several ways of graveyard recursion, the card-draw is improved and become much more consistent, and the average CMC, which already started fairly low, went down even further. Trying to keep up with this development via a banlist is just pointless. Adapt or get out, the past is in the past.
Every time this guy loses he adds new rules. He's convinced that if he just keeps doing this for years he will eventually win. One day.
Nah they've definitely won one game before, and they use it to claim they know what's best for the format and the game.
To their credit, I think an "unaltered precon format" is a great idea. I also played with a group that banned Blightsteel Colossus because I kept stealing it with Bribery. Fantastic stuff.
WOW, that was so immature of them. Banning the card you've been using in bad faith just because you got a taste of your own medicine when someone used it against you. Pretty much "how to never grow up 101"
Surprised they didn't ban theft cards instead haha
I always say never get salty about Bribery. I’m playing YOUR bullshit cards.
More context needed. Are they cheating out the Colossus? How fast can it usually come out. The ban is almost 100% dependent on other power level expectations involved. Bribery is a messed up card, but in a formal full of messed up cards.
@@GollyGoshSensation Somewhat here you and power-level dependent. If my ten drop actually comes out on turn 8-10 usually and you make it show up turn 4-5, yeah, that's a feels bad. But otherwise I do hear ya.
Combine Elesh Norn and living plane. Lands return and are killed due to state based effects. The infinite combo relies on the rule regarding lands coming back. The land destruction rule gets exiled by the no combo rule.
I know a guy who combined Cronus bell, toxrill, and urborb, tomb of yagmoth to keep opponents lands off the field
Nah, you created an infinite loop out of elesh norn and your opponents lands. So, elesh norn and your opponents lands get exiled. This would be a problem, but the rule stating that lands get returned specify that it has to be from an effect that an opponent controls. Since the infinite loop rule is not an effect controlled by anyone, they remain exiled.
I was thinking to simple by using Jolrael to animate their lands.
Three things I find especially hilarious about all of this:
1.) Teferi being banned and erata'd, that's peak comedy right there.
2.) The fact that there are multiple cards on their ban list that are on the official EDH ban list.
3.) There are multiple cards that they banned that are clearly cards they felt were too powerful due to some kind of combo, but then you'll notice a lot of their combo pieces are also banned for some reason. Like they banned Anje which I stupidly thought was because one guy got Worldgorgered, and then later on in the 172 card ban list we see they also banned Worldgorger. But then you also remember that infinite combos are already inherently banned and I just can't man, shit's too funny.
I mean they probably realized that Teferi's ultimate isn't actually his -10, it's "Untap four permanents"
@@anthonydelfino6171 yes chain veil teferi never used -10, -1 and +1 means you draw your deck and get infinite mana... and cvt fell out of competitive meta 5+ years ago, not that it was any significant portion of the meta.
@@m1gr3nA even without chain veil, his best ability is still untap four permanents. That’s my point.
@@anthonydelfino6171 yup. i think someone went through cedh metagame breakdown from ~10 years ago and blanket banned most of the top commanders without thinking too much.
banning only some of the already banned cards in your special format almost seems to imply that they don't follow the official banlist.
So cascade does nothing, and The First Sliver, who with this in place is a vanilla creature, is banned. Makes sense
It was still too good I guess. it does a lot of commander damage in this format.
@@ltmaidif you die to commander damage from a vanilla 7/7, that’s on you
@@jaythepizza7600 tbf, its a sliver. its gonna have evasion and double strike and other shit
Guess they learned about Apex Devastator the hard way.
@darthcinnabon don't forget the other rules that only let a commander deal damage based on its printed value, thus really negating any modifiers on it.
Im guessing if you win a game in this shop each of your opponents gets to ban a card from your deck.
That actually sounds more interesting than this lmao. Like imagine doing that format for a 5 years of weekly games and seeing how different the meta was? With non salt-lords, obviously. But it would kinda be a fun creative experiment if everyone was down.
@@TheWaffleRadio 5 years of weekly games would get thousands of cards banned
@@jadegrace1312every game resulting in 3 cards getting banned yeah
@@jadegrace1312 But there are so insanely many magic cards, as long as people didn't just set out to break it, I think that's fine. I mean, if every time every player bans a legendary creature, it's not going to take too long before you can't play commander any more. The concept is really cool, and places where it's going to get ridiculous fast you could just modify it. Instead of each player picking a ban, each player puts in a vote for a ban, and each week the top 5-20 cards in that shop are added to the ban list. And maybe have events around it to separate it from "casual" games. You've got to keep the regular scene pretty simple. Would hate for people to buy their first commander deck, and then no one will play with them because 10 of its cards have been banned.
@@Dnallohes soooo you are saying that you would need additional rules to make people not try to break your fragile rules system?
and ultimately... why? why fix something that works perfectly fine as it is?
As someone who always has a hard time finishing building a deck, I can't imagine coming into the store to play a game, having one of my favorite mildly powerful commander banned as a result, and ever coming back again.
This is my big question. How do they have players? Are they all just “that one guy” we all hate from tables, but they play together?
Glad you covered this place. They're about 20 minutes from me. I went once pre-covid to but some singles and I picked them and then they started re pricing them as the owner took them out, which I told them I didn't want them anymore at that price, and I got belittled for it. So dumb lmao
West Michigan gang! Thankfully I wasn't back into MtG when I went in there and only was picking up 40k models
This is precisely how I pictured the shop owner acting in my head. Scrub mentality in all aspects 😂
What did he expect your reaction to be to repricing an item you've already selected?
Yeah, ive been there as well. Im about 2 and a half hours away from it but ive been when i was out that way about a year ago. It really feels like angry pissbaby energy and the guys playing in there really didnt seem like they wanted to be there lol
I feel ashamed this is in the same state we live in. However I am weirdly compelled to visit this place and see the atrocities with my own eyes.
I find it notable that through all of the blanket mechanic bans and what seems to be some spite ones, fast mana is not part of it. Someone clearly doesn't want their expensive Mana Crypts and Ancient Tombs that they have in every deck to go to waste.
The planeswalker erratas also point towards somebody having a field day with superfriends.
Also, they haven't lost to Moonshaker Cavalry yet, so someone get on that. Craterhoof At Home is still a finisher.
Yeah, it's really weird, other than Thassa's Oracle they didn't include any of the cards I'd think of if I were making a supplemental banlist for Commander. Dockside Extortionist, Lion's Eye Diamond, Gilded Lotus, Mana Vault, the Beta dual lands, all the free interaction cards like Force of Will and Fierce Guardianship, all just fine at this store apparently. But don't come to this store with a Taigam; that's just a bridge too far! I also find it hilarious that they banned Rule of Law but not Arcane Laboratory.
@@billvolk4236 So I wasn't the only one thinking that? Like, who the hell does a custom ban list but does not ban Mana Crypt? The only reason that thing is not banned is because it fills WotC's pockets!
This game store is in my local community. I have played there. I know the owner. This list exists purely because the owner gets salty when those cards are played against him and he can't pub stomp folks. Also, the sheer amount of spite play in the room is appalling.
That sounds like an awful experience. If they ever went to a magic con then they would be in a world of hurt
I'd play on MTGO rather than go there even if it was my only option.
What decks does the owner play? I'm genuinely curious.
I’m curious how fast I can get Nekuzar Wheels banned with Sheoldred and Bowmaster. Deck doesn’t go infinite, but getting wheeled twice behind counter spells/stax pieces sure does feel like it with how much damage it does.
This.... actually makes a lot of sense.
You actually missed that anihillator got additionally changed to be "nonland permanents" so you cant force sac people's lands
I mean, that's maybe stronger? It means they can't sacrifice lands instead of blockers.
@@davidrosenberg9615 and because it's an attack trigger, they HAVE to sacrifice before any blocks can be declared
@@davidrosenberg9615 Right?! "i have to sac defenders. i wanted lands but rules say non-lands. guess i'll die" shrugs.
This is so hilarious to watch. I live pretty close to this store and was thinking about trying to play there. Had no idea they had such an oddball rules list. Hard pass.
I kinda want to go now and see how much I can expand the ban list
@@zach8143I approve this message. Prosper, Ur-Dragon, and Narset enlightened exile seem like sure wins
@@zach8143 i didnt see sheoldred the apolcalypse or tergrid! new commander time
@@lillianoftheveil I already have it built and if tergrid goes I can promise 3-5 other cards get banned with it... Dictate of erebos, painful quandary, grave pact, krrik, archfiend of depravity, geths grimoire, dark deal, smoke stack, desolation, oppression.... Take your pick for what they keep me from playing.... I'll switch out the commander for game two after a couple gets banned, they will be in for a grindier game because they took my main win con so now it's just grind and slow beats
Glinthorn malcolm is still an option
These lists are always funny because they're full of casual commander pet peeves, but not ALL of them. You could sleeve a theft deck up that would skate right under all these rules, they hit some of stax but missed Tangle Wire and most of the hatebears like Drannith Magistrate or any of the Torpor Orb effects, Smothering Tithe somehow has dodged it so far, and so on. Sisyphus must run this store, because they will never be done writing this list.
there's also like 5 or so rule of law effects and they only banned 1
I bet you an established player runs Smothering Tithe and until other folks start running it it'll stay unbanned
Same with dockside extortionist lol
Yeah, the funniest part of their ban list was that Drannith Magistrate, one of (if not the) most contentious cards in Commander... yeah that's fine.
@@Th3TreasonerThey also banned nevermore too, so they obviously dont like/ have played against effects that stop you from casting your commander
They also missed the turtle. Forget his name right now but you could definitely pilot a hard stax deck with him under these rules.
This really does ooze of Power trip vibes. Feels like a situation where whoever makes the banlist/rules adds new rules/errata/bans whenever they lose to something. That's the only way Teferi gets both an errata (after it fucks over the person in power once) and is banned (second time it fucks them over). Same with the cascade sliver, which was probably banned first, then cascade was deleted and the cascade sliver (now a vanilla creature) is just never taken of the list because maintaining a ban list of 170+ cards is probably to much work for someone with little to no game design experience.
I can just imagine the saltiest player on earth getting up from the table after losing a game, running over to the computer, and updating this ridiculous ban list with whatever cards they just lost to 🤣
No more basic forests, islands, or plains in THIS game store!
Its even worse than that. The guy who does it rarely ever plays
When newcomers get referred to the "casual format" that is twice as rules-heavy as the default game
3:30 A commander's max combat damage per combat phase cannot exceed the commander's printed attack value, so...
"I hit you with my Adeline, Resplendent Cathar".
"That's 4 combat damage, but how much of it is commander?"
"Star."
Well then I guess we need to ban Adeline
If printet, and printet is *, then it's easy to just consider it as 0
@@Blomstermark * determines base power snd toughness, and as such the number it represents changes as the game state changes. If you have only Adeline, * is 1, if you have a small army * is 21
The rule, indirectly, buffs legends like Chromium the Mutable, who can take a small p/t debuf, voltron a bunch of equipment, and still deal 7 commander damage there
One of my LGSs had a rule where if someone lost with a Wandering Towershell in exile, they had to pin the card up on the wall "Because it wandered away and never found its way back"
i literally had to look up the card (meandering towershell btw) and i would assume that the pin is for a joke and not because its insane, correct?
@@MythicMythos9 I believe so. That card is a meme (and at the same time one of he best flavor wins in the entire game) because it's supposed to be a turtle so slow it's only ever gonna hit you after a turn. I believe the joke is likely that, if by the time the turtle arrives the game is already finished, it is never gonna find its way back home again.
@@MythicMythos9 Yeah, it was just a running joke at the game store
Oh, lord these are embarrassing. Even if I were personally this salty about all these different things, the idea of telling everyone "yes, I think magic is BETTER like this" fills me with profound shame.
I knew a guy that had like a 1000 word rulelist on playing EDH with him online, stuff like "add 20 life to any effects requiring a certain lifetotal (Soul Ascendant for example)" This wasn't made to nerf the game, he intentionally played broken cards and infinite combos, just nerf decks that he didn't like. Had the gall to wonder why I stopped playing when he was at the table, lol
This is absolutely insane, and i would really love to build a Liesa lifegain deck or an avacyn deck with 40 boardwipes and win every single game that I play in that store until they kick me out just to prove those rules are mental
thats probably what these guys are playing. and why those cards are banned im betting this is a "we make the rules so we do this so we always win not because its fair. "
Something that the groups I play in tend to do is just disclose if a gross combo or insta win is in the deck. Even when there’s a disparity in power level, it’s a lot nicer to go into the game knowing what we’re dealing with. Just a “btw I have (time sieve (Tivit), Thassa’s oracle, sanguine bond, etc.) in here.” People are generally happier with the outcome when they know that that’s a possibility and aren’t blindsided.
Also, why is Oona banned, she’s in multiple precons. Very silly.
If you have a power 4 deck with a 2 cards infinite that wins the game, the other people will attack you as if you had a power 10 deck. And even if the other 3 players are also playing a power 4 deck, you're not winning the 1v3
@@laytonjr6601 the groups I play in try to be a bit more cautious of that, so I understand that it may not work for everyone. In my experience, we usually chat a bit about what we’re going into to figure out what strategies best complement each other and will create an interesting game with cool interactions and that no one person steamrolls or gets steamrolled. Also, we try to communicate throughout the game to make sure that it stays fun because it sucks to get ganged up on when you’re not an in game threat.
The *bespoke* rules: you can't go infinite!
Also the bespoke rules: *bans everything that goes infinite and bans the cards that are only a problem when you can go infinite in the first place*
Yeah, it's so obviously put together by someone with almost no clue what they're doing. I doubt they even playtested these rules ahead of time before implementing them.
@@underscore_5450 honestly I think the real story is that they started making bans and rules over the years and never cared to recheck the banlist based on their own logic
"A combo is infinite if an event is repeated more than 5 times"
Me: so the rule change is a player has to stop the infinite after 5 loops?
LGS: all cards in the infinite are EXILED after A SINGLE LOOP
I would build a deck that creates infinites to force this rule to exile all my opponent's permanents
After re-watching this, it's even more hilarious as PK is going though the ban list and hits a random commander and I know exactly who played the deck that got it put on the list 🤣🤣🤣
So whats the typical type of deck that gets a commander slapped on the ban list?
@@mumbles2840One that wins a game lol.
For a few weeks they added a rule saying players couldn't draw more than 1 extra card per turn and it was so poorly received they had to remove it because said owner didn't like people drawing cards in his pods. 🤣🤣🤣
Why even play commander at that point. Dude might as well not play he’s got so many gosh darn rules
LMAO the entire store getting Narset’d
What the fuck. What's next? A cap on how much damage you can deal each turn? A cap on how many spells or effects you're allowed to resolve? A token creature limit that forces you to start saccing them after you have more than 5? Jesus christ
@@underscore_5450oh no saccing them that's too op they just don't exist so nothing interacts with them entering or leaving.
I saw this list on Reddit a couple of weeks ago and it has been altered multiple times. It was my “go to LGS” i would skip all this nonsense level at all and either stick with pre cons or “no restrictions” rather than brewing something only to find out that some rule has changed again.
This banlist feel like every time someone beats the store owner in a game of commander, they add it to the banlist.
Apparently it is exactly this
When simply asking people to use their better judgement to create a good play experience just isn't enough, the next option should obviously be to have their deck take the EDH Michigan state bar exam
Let's be perfectly fair, card games aren't known for players trying to create an enjoyable experience. At my LGS they occasionally have community expanding events they don't charge for tournaments, sell old commander decks to new players for a discounted rates and the purpose is to get kids interested in the game. In my pod, there was a kid (10 or so) so the store owner comes over and tells us "hey he's new, go easy on him". A 50ish year old man with gray hair proceeded to Kaalia + MoC the kid on turn 2.
This is pure madness. Haven't laughed this hard in a long time
Glad you found some comedy in it all.
@@PleasantKenobi would it not have been easier to list what`s actually legal?
I love how there's cards from the ban list in precons. Hell, Anje Falkenrath was the face of a precon.
That happened in actual commander as well. Trade secrets was in a precon
there were a good few face commanders in the ban list.
@@leverposteifantomet To be fair, Trade Secrets was justifiably banned. It should never have been printed, especially in a multiplayer format.
@@chaosredefined3834 I agree
And now recently the Zhulodok precon with his double cascade effect.
Vince: *makes this video*
Game Store: "Pleasant Kenobi is now banned"
I remember reading a LFG that someone shared from reddit where the DM was looking for a group... and banned all forms of darkvision. Down to subclasses and classes that have ways of getting darkvision, heavily limiting the species you can use, replacing dark vision with skill proficiencies, and making you unable to throw torches or objects with the "Light" spell on it. Light and torches can be used but they must stay on your person.
Arcane Archer got banned because it has the ability to make ranged light.
I don't necessarily like my players all having dark vision, but if they want to get clever and cast light on an arrow or something, in all for it.
Restrictions are supposed to breed creativity, not stifle it.
I couldn't help but notice that despite having a triple digit banlist, landfall and enchantress, two infamously powerful archetypes at casual level, got *almost* zero bans at all. Kess, Dissident Mage is too much for casual players but apparently Tatyova is 100% A-OKAY
They just haven't played against it yet 😂
Yea, just bring that up there, beat him, and the rules will be updated within the hour.
@@GreenMonkeySamno they have. I went there for a bit and one guy had a tatyova deck and would draw his deck multiple times and noone cared.
The stereotypical aggressively casual commander player loves long games of solitaire, so this type of strategy is acceptable. High powered decks aren't the problem, any player winning the game is.
My lgs temporarily had a ban list made by one of the locals, which repealed after the first tournament, when the guy who made it screamed at a minor for playing Birgi and called for their disqualification because “ he meant to put it on the ban list”
This is the fault of LGS' not instituting age pools, putting a 12 year old against some mid thirties dude who'se been playing since he was twelve is asking for trouble. Sure there are plenty of kids who are fantastic at the game, and in casual it should be fine since it's casual but tournies need to be separated by age, because if I took my niece to a tournie because she was interested in trying it out, I'm not just dropping her off, I would either be playing or just hanging around the shop and if someone started screaming in her face, they'd find out very quickly what their own ass tastes like.
@@StevenTLawsonI have a 4 year old who wants to play mtg. Way to young haha but say in 5 years or so he wants to go with me to our KGS one night, I'd bring him. Now if he got screamed at by some 30 year old, well that guy has angry daddy bear to deal with. Plus 3 of my brothers play mtg. So maybe 3 angry uncles as well.
Vince pointed out Iona was banned, but I think about three cards read beforehand were also banned.
Does it make double banned cards unbanned?
Golos and Coalition Victory are both banned before that.
yep golos, coalition victory and flash of the cards mentionned before Iona but there's also paradox engine
This is amazing. I went to the wharf for a long time and im glad someone is finally calling them out. Ama.
please please please build lavinia omen pool. i saw this banlist a few days ago and realized that none of the lock pieces are banned, as are many of the stax pieces. i bet you could personally get a few more cards added to this banlist
@@lukestangewhy just Lavinia Pool? Go big and build a cEDH Winota deck, the entire deck list minus magus of the moon is legal which is hilarious
@@anamedninja5536 i like lavinia 😅
is the reason because the people who are the ones who always win play decks that these cards would hamper or kill them. i just want to know because i think its childish that they are basically doing the little kid solution of saying i have an unbreakable shield when someone attacks them in a game of make believe
As soon as I saw that rule about the split second return all lands to play beyond the first complete with the caveat for land creatures, I thought "Hey, I can cheese this with my Ashaya list, it would be invulnerable to boardwipes", only to then see about a third of my list on the banlist lol.
We need to develop a deck that is just entirely too oppressive in this absurd meta and send a pubstomping representative there to dunk on the owner
@@TheWaffleRadio I have a Yorion deck that's not as oppressive as it could be, but the best part about Yorion, is he gets to a state where all his game actions are triggering once per player's turn. So it skirts a lot of these rules and can quickly exile boards and lands. And the best part, my deck has 0 banned cards from this absurd list, so its ready to go XD
@@TheWaffleRadiothe solution is lavinia omen pool. it isn't infinite. it doesn't combo. it's mostly unbanned. and it absolutely stomps on any possible deck within this meta.
She be a crazy commander since people couldn't remove more than one of your creatures a turn.
@@thetimebinderWasn't there something about "unless they're also creatures?" I'm too lazy to rewatch it
My old LGS had "house rule nights" where they would make building restrictions for decks. If you chose to play by those rules, you got extra prizing, but you could play with normal rules for regular prizing too.
I’ve heard of similar things at LGSes outside of EDH as well, and it seems pretty fun. You can play to win for the normal top prize or go for broke and get a little extra for your troubles.
That sounds okay to me, I’d probably play
This is, in fact, what the LGS actually does on Commander nights. They separate into tables and then declare certain tables casual or competitive. Any of the casual tables can choose to use the ban list, but don't have to; there's still rule 0 discussion. It breaks my heart a little to see all these comments shitting on the Wharf and saying that no one should ever buy things from there because my experience with the place has been super positive and they have a massive collection of cards, I've basically been able to buy any card I ever need at any time from there.
@@moshimeshowu747 there seems to be 172 cards that the shop really does not want to sell any copies of
I wish more LGSs would do this. Seems fun, more times to see theme decks and jank tribal.
If an LGS has its own Commander Banlist, there is little reason to go there past buying cards IMO
Edit: HOL' UP, THEY DIDN'T BAN THE KARN+MYCOSYNTH HARD LOCK?!
Maybe the owner plays this? 😆
I heard that the owner plays Kinnan, and that’s why most of his important cards aren’t on the list
Well you're free to ban it yourself. Just go to that store and win a game with Karn, it'll be banned before you've left the chair.
i dont think sideboard exists in edh
@@aaa-zt6uo you can just tutor it from deck though right?
So you're telling me that doubling cube is banned, but dockside extortionist didn't piss them off enough to put on this list... yeah sure okay
It was fun listening to every deck I own be banned at the commander level.
My decks: Kykar, Breya, Yarock.... Uh, 4-color merfolk tribal. Was thrasios banned?
Yup, Brago, Breya, and Meren banned for me as well
I think the more fun game is to try to find a commander deck that can still win under these insane restrictions. The most playable deck I thought of is Nekuzar Wheels with Sheoldred and Orcish Bowmaster. It’s technically not infinite and it technically abides by all the rules and regulations in place. I’m surprised Narset, Parter of Veils wasn’t banned or erata’d either, you can still hand rip with Narset + wheel combo in the grixis wheel pile lol.
@@firespirit8026 I agree to a point. Thinks like Thassa's Oracle always come off as a "feel bad" kind of loss. That list just feels like a who's who list of cards that someone lost to and got mad.
FWIW my banned decks at the place: Oona, Selvala, Grand Arbiter.
@@firespirit8026the second you sit down to play Nekusar would be banned, by the sound of this shop's mentality.
It honestly begs the question, What fucking decks are these people playing to abide by all these rules/bans?
I would love to rock into that store and run a Jodah the Unifier deck in this "No Cascade" format. It's not really cascade! The word is nowhere on the card and it is mechanically different.
I thought the same thing. Lol
Thought so as well, but the thing is: My Jodah build is a super friends deck & like half my walkers had their abilities errata'd :D
Is it possible that there's an unwritten houserule that whenever the store owner loses, they can add a card from the winner's deck to the ban list?
The only way to make this format fun is to actually try to make a broken deck in it, one broken enough that you add a rule or card to the banlist
This is amazing. Sounds like a format for me. I hate losing to my brothers decks, just because he is better att building and playing then i am. Its not fair. Also i am all ombord for just baning all playnswalkers. Thous are just way to powerful
This genuinely feels like a list of “cards i lost to so you don’t get to play em” lmao
If a card/commander wins, ban it. Look now every game is different
@@ltmaid ngl sounds like a weeklong challenge to do with the homies, literally once tho
That’s exactly what it is. The owner gets salty very easily
That is insane that there's so many cards on their custom banlist but Winota isn't on there lmao
Bet you it’s the owner’s favorite pubstomper
I read the title and immediately knew he was talking about the gamers wharf. They are a store by me. Commander nights requires you to play at the "rapture" level before you play at anything else. Believe me, we make fun of them
I wish I lived in michigan because I would love to bring a deck of only swamps and shadowborn apostle and then just loudly complain how OP everyone else's deck was and how someone should reign this crazy format in
My first thought was “wow it’s the wharf” before even clicking the video and was so overjoyed when I realized it was
I was about to say, as crazy as the banlist is, at least you can play normal commaner. LOL
I have to ask, is is meant to be the "raptor" level, and nobody has managed to make the owner realize that, because at least that would fit, name-wise, with the theme?
@jamescoleman7858 I don't think you fully comprehend the amount of spelling and grammar mistakes on this page
Rhystic study is not overpowered change my mind.
7:38 If someone is able to deal 30 infect among their opponents with out Triumph of the Horde, they deserve to win.
I’m guessing it was less a problem with one player but 2+ as typically if you have 2 poison counter /proliferate decks, the other 2 players are a non factor unless they brought their CEDH deck to the game.
Removing ultimates is actually very interesting. Planeswalkers are already the permanent easiest to kill, but if you were playing a planeswalker and everyone at the table knew it couldn't ult, they might not attack it, so there's a chance it could make the planeswalker *more* playable.
I only play planeswalkers that care about using their first or second abilities, since I know I can't plan on ever getting the ultimate. But even then with my playgroup knowing full well I only care about getting three soldiers our of Elspeth, Sun's Champion, they're always afraid I might do something different this time and ultimate her.
Yeah tbh ulting a planeswalker (without some sort of counters shenanigans like doubling or proliferate) never happens in my playgroup unless there's some sort of stalemate, and in that case we appreciate it ending the game. Usually we just play em for utility/card advantage (Karn is nice in the 99 for red/white decks) or the ones with static abilities.
@@QobpMy friend runs Jace, memory adept in his scarab god deck and every time he plays it, he tells everyone to leave it alone so he can ultimate it so everyone draws 20 cards. The problem with this though is that his deck is so much better than everyone (it’s practically a cedh deck) and runs quite a bit of counterspells, and every time he’s successfully ults he got an omniscience. Because of this every member of our playgroup who have seen him ult jace have always tried their damnest to stop him
The problem I have with removing planeswalkers ults is that the fact that letting them tick up risks a massive board swing is what makes their gameplay engaging. "Hey, Ted's been sitting there upping Elspeth for three turns, someone ought to stop him". If there's no risk of an ultimate, their threat goes under the radar so you just get _another_ excuse for Commander players to just sit and generate value with no opposition and gum the game up for hours longer than it should because Commander players think threat management means "if it won't win the game, just ignore it". Planeswalkers NEED that ticking time bomb of "you need to interact with me or it will go poorly for you".
@@BrntnuggetScarab God in not a cEDH deck, ESPECIALLY if it runs Jace
I was expecting the house rules to be stuff like “commander a and commander b can be partnered with each other for a deck” but this was just depressing
I was surprised that Tergrid, God of Fright wasn't banned.
Pretty sure that “no extra turns” rule could be abused by bouncing and recasting Emrakul, the Promised End over and over, as after the first time your opponent is unable to get a turn after you take theirs.
Yeah that would be how it works. Making that emrakul infinitely more powerful.
...I think they just added another card to their ban list
My friend did exactly this at a local store here in Phoenix that had such a rule. Hilarious.
I think this would fall into their bizarre ban of “no repeated actions over 5” but still technically 5 extra turns 😂
@@prob3z403 Why? Can lands not be tapped for mana more than 5 times game?
If you're in Michigan and looking for a great LGS, the broken sword is a wonderful place. The owner is laid back, knowledgeable, and very cool. They have collectibles, vintage gaming, vinyls, etc. You name it. Gotta recommend it for my fellow Michiganders.
Boosting this, not even from Michigan and I want to get away from the game store discussed in this video.
I live in the city this store is in...the store is a meme to the local players and there are many better places to play
I am from Michigan. What area is this place in?
@@KnicKnac GR area
Our local game store also has 3 different pods for commander. Pre-Cons (minimally altered), mid-tier decks (so no ancient tomb, mana crypt, force of will, other really high value cards, not heavily focused on combos), and then sky's the limit pod. It's really just based on honor code. But certainly no silly "you get an emblem that says you can't take any more extra turns" or any of these other insane changes.
Force of will isn't even that good in commander, what.
so, just sorte by power level (kinda) neat.
My LGS is just a bunch of people who rule 0 every game, crazy how it works effectively
In tour
@@Woodside235 Well, that's literally just wrong lmfao.
what?! oona queen of fae? i have a hard time getting that out without it getting immediately targeted 😂, i think this shop just looked at popular cards and decided to ban them since a lot of these cards seems that way right?
Commander damage is stupid anyways. It was some dumb rule fans created back in the day, that has stuck around since even though it Doesn't match with the rest of the rules imagine the gathering just creates an extra rule to remember for a specific format. Also it ruins ruin's life gain as a useful mechanic.
You are correct.
Commander damage is a garbage rule, and it's sad to see people mindlessly defend it just because they saw that 1 time out of 2137 games someone got lucky and defeated an all-in infinite lifegain because that infinite lifegain had zero blockers, zero ghostly prison effects, zero removal.
I mean all of EDH is stupid if you think about it. They made a format where you make a deck built around one of five dragons and duke it out. There were no other “commanders” you could choose from.
They figured it would be funny to have an alternative win condition if you could get three attacks in with your dragon. Then the format became more well known and well that became a mainstay of the format as an alt win.
Also saying life gain isn’t a useful mechanic because a niche lose condition, is wild. Life gain still triggers effects and keeps you out of dying to anything else that isn’t the commander swinging for its 21st damage.
I feel like this has to be a constantly growing ban list. Like they play every week, and after the game the rules get updated with the winning commander and win-con added to the banlist, or a new rule added to 'fix' the winning strategy...ie. someone won with poison? Now it takes 20.
It's been pretty much like that for 2 or 3 years now
@@MichSportshave you been there? Anyone get in any arguments about it there? Gotta admit I'm pretty hot under the collar about it and I've never even been to Michigan.
@chuckwagon3718 yes I've been there many times. Usually I would just play in a curated pod for cedh. The people who go there and play in those games seem to love the ban list for the most part.
They banned all that crap but not dockside LMAO
Wait, how did I miss that? Now that is a lol moment
Shocked that Atraxa (either version) didn't make the list. Maybe the store owner just hasn't lost to it bad enough yet
Holy shit thats true! how atraxa of all cards didnt get hit on the shitDH banlist the crying baby that made this sure have an atraxa deck
@@adoo765 But notably not a superfriends / infect Atraxa deck!
They banned doubling season and the cool planeswalker ultimates anyway.
There was a "Casual Commander League" that I went to here in Michigan for a while. Here were the following rules:
-No Infinite Combos
-No Extra Turns
-No Extra Combat
-No Infect
-No "You win the game" cards
-Couldn't win the game before turn 5
There was a couple others, but it was wild. Turns out Lifegain was absolutely busted, I built Kenrith as an Esper Lifegain Commander because I knew I was going to be able to have turns to set up and develop a board state, as well as gain life so that I could end up using Aetherflux Reservoir to blow people up. Lmao.
Being as the main way to kill people was going to be through Combat Damage or Commander damage, you just built a control package to keep the commanders in check, and you were good. With enough life, combat damage didn't matter. After a while it got pretty boring for me cause like, EDH was always something I played with my friends for fun, and this very quickly made it become not fun. :(
That is my lgs.
Edit: precons/ casual is a 5$ entry with a pack a person prize winner gets 3 (most recent standard set), and Cedh is 7$ with 20 store cred for winner. People do try to win and an average game is 60-90 min.
I’m betting it only started with a few bans but that warped the game in the favour of a certain strategy thus needing them to ban more cards and so on and so on… eg. commander damage is nerfed so lifegain is really good, so of course they had to band Test of Endurance.
As someone who lives in the city where this store is at, I can't even begin to tell you how hard I was laughing as soon as I heard you were going after this. This banlist is the running meme in our commander community, and I'm so happy it's getting shit on worldwide. XD
What city is it in? I live in Michigan and kind of want to go there lol
@@bryantkapono420 Grand Rapids
@SS4519 If you're comfortable sharing it, what's the name of the shop?
Wharf is correct. The full name is The Gamer's Wharf.
As someone who lives in a close by city known for a week long flower fest, we’ve been laughing about that ban list for months. I can’t believe a well know creator from across the pond covered it
As a player here and often playing in this wharf casual play, I will say it’s not as terrible as it seems. Not too mention, it’s heavily influenced by the core meta group who doesn’t seem to feel that they should run interaction or removal. So it’s kind of meant to be like an intro to magic that allows for newer players to get to do the things. It definitely needs some attention and edits as the owner doesn’t even know what’s banned anymore, you’re not too far off with his personal vendetta against certain cards/combos, and there’s some redundancy that could be fixed by simplifying the rules and reducing the banned list. All in all he is doing it for the players and has regular, precon, and cedh play running alongside wharf casual. So at least the LGS in question is attempting to address their meta while still offering the every day spell slinger pods to play and compete in. However, the owner doesn’t want to put the effort in to correcting/editing what’s there and won’t let his manager touch anything without his approval as he doesn’t believe that anyone can override his lifetime of experience and understanding of the game and the business. I think it also drives sales of cards that make their way into decks design for these house rules as the owner is also driven by money more than any other aspect of the business.
If you wanna laugh harder, know that the owner of this LGS is the Revel in Riches/Negate guy
What does that mean.
no way. really?
The only thing we changed in our playgroup is that our mulligan is still partial paris, because it leads to less shuffling. Some of us have bad fine motor skills and it takes a long time for them to shuffle, less additional shuffles for them is good. It also helps us actually start with the right amount of lands in hand without having to struggle all game.
I think that's more than fine.
We pretty much just ignore mulligan rules at my table. It's basically just "find a playable 7 cards with as many mulls as is required, just don't be a dick about it and mull for something perfect" Have no interest in someone just not getting to play magic because RNG decided to dick them down to like a 2-3 card hand.
@@braddorcas9363I've heard of that rule before when I played at FNMs while on vacation. I mostly didn't bother with it and I did just fine because I built mine around being reliable under "one free mulligan".
It was neat seeing Anthem Tribal, my most mid-tier fun(ny) deck in my collection, go absolutely nuts for once. Though in my defense one guy brought Yuriko but didn't seem to understand Yuriko's CEDH reputation, and so I did what had to be done. Just in case.
Wait, so what happens if someone's playing a commander with power and toughness **/** like Old Stickfingers? How much commander damage would it be allowed to deal in one swing?
You know whoever made this list is a genius
I’m late, and I imagine they’d fight this ruling, but asterisks are always calculated at all times of the game. So if you need to check its current or original stat, you have to calculate what * equals.
So I’d say if old stickfingers is a 5/5 from his own ability, that’s 5 commander damage because that * is -always- going to read as 5 in that boardstate.
…they’ll probably say it’s 0 tho
It seems you didn't understand the first rule you read. It stated that a Command can only deal up to their printed value as commander damage while anything else they do is treated as combat damage. Getting 50k life doesn't stop me from killing you with 21 commander damage, all that does is slow down decks who as you said Voltron some bs to OHK you. It makes commander damage kills more difficult than cheesing a combo, it becomes something you work for.
Limiting players to only being able to take 1 extra turn per game will massively improve everything, I'm not here to watch you masturbate for 10 minutes, I came to play the game you taking 15 extra turns, at that point I'd scoop because you're literally wasting time. At that point just say, "I win, next game" if you are able to infinitely loop extra turns
The Annihilator should have just been, if the creature is able to deal combat damage to a player then it's annihilator triggers, rather than "I swing, sac your shit before you do anything else." Annihilator becomes a reward for getting your big card through rather than a way to board wipe your opponent
Okay. The only houserule I typically ask for is that less-than-legal-but-still-thematic commanders be allowed.
So for example, Genju of the Realm being used as the the commander of a Lands deck (even though the commander rule demands a creature or specific planeswalkers)
Or as another example, using Grimlock, Dinobot Leader as a commander for Dinosaur-Vehicle deck (whom is normally not legal on account of being silver bordered)
Holy hell, at a certain point you have to ask if people even like playing magic.
I think if you wanted to try out a local format that was like "UU" in Pokemon, where you ban a bunch of the best cards and see what shakes out of the resulting format, that could potentially be really fun if you figured out a good list.
Adding a whole bunch of rules on top of that to try and neuter anything that could be remotely considered a negative play experience is insanity.
Based
We have a house rule at my store where you put the cards you mulligan on a side pile each time rather than bottom and shuffle. You then bottom and shuffle once at the end. It generally just serves to make the mulligan process faster and less of a pain with such large decks.
we do the same thing and usually limit it to up to 10 cards unless you are looking for a land... i run 40 Fing lands and still get land screwed. i shuffle like crazy and they still clump
one of the stores i play at they do a vegas mulligan. draw 3 hands pick one and shuffle the rest, if those are crap then you draw the next 7 and you keep that. cuts down mulligan time so much and gives better chances of a great game honestly
I really hate the idea of this ban list because it really discourages fun and cool deckbuilding, and pushes players to only win through a combat strategy. While yes the goal of Magic is to reduce your opponent’s life total to 0 there can also be more than one way to achieve that. Even at my store I’ve had players say well you didn’t really win you just did a combo with artifacts. Like MF my commander is Breya did you think I was gonna cast Ghalta and hit you with creatures. It seems like a lot of players want to play fun creature decks that are slower but do big smash things. And there’s no problem with that. But I don’t want to do that. If you think my deck is too good then I encourage you to pick up an Urza, possibly a Demonic tutor, how about getting a cyc rift or a mana drain. Or better yet just proxy all of those and build a fun combo deck but don’t try and shit on me for playing magic the way I find most fun.
They banned so much, but not my xenagos deck, essentially nothing changed. It can compete at higher power tables, not cedh but god it would kill everyone in this format
suprised Serra Ascendant isn't on that stores ban list, guess every one of those cards is more problematic then a 6/6 flying lifelinker for 1.
I love that you can also play cedh winota with maybe 4 cards changed assuming youre playing the kiki-less build
You can play Winota with 1 card change because the only banned card is Magus of the Moon
Why ban first sliver when you already have erratta eliminating cascade. Is a generic 7/7 for WUBRG too pushed? Also there were several cards on that extended ban list that are already banned.
Only thing I agree with is banning cradle. And it’s only because I’m fine with it being allowed, but remove academy from the ban list instead.
Banning the single best land in the game is dumb but fine. Allowing the second best land that’s 99% as good as the best, is just inconsistency at its best.
I find it very disgraceful how you promote the idea that we should not harass the store or the employees, but give us all of the avenues to find and contact them? That part shouldn't even matter. Very asinine behavior.
Tbh there's a bunch of things here that I'd shrug at, like having a custom banlist (the list itself is insane, but still) or making poison go to 20, or letting players not take more than one extra turn. But adding highly complicated rules patches (like their attempt to formalize "can't remove more than one land per turn") that then need more extra patches ("unless their controller animated them and they died in combat") upon patches ("except if they were forced to fight") to what's supposed to be their casual format? I'm not sure they understand the word "casual".
The wording makes it so that, by their own rules, if you reanimate all your lands and sacrifice them to an altar style effect with a way to replay them from your graveyard, you can generate near infinite landfall triggers and altar effects.
They Alchemy'd mtg cards in real life