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MTG already has a Yu-Gi-Oh type of card rarity system. The different frames/full art cards are akin to what Yu-Gi-Oh does with its different rarities (just different foiling). The major difference is that WoTC doesn't intentionally short print cards, it just creates shitty mythics to make you gamble more for the better mythics.
At least Yu-Gi-Oh's rarity treatments are mostly just different foilings. They reprint incredibly in-demand cards at lower rarities all the time to protect collectible value of higher rarity versions while still giving their players GAME PIECES
Exactly. While it takes a while to get reprints sometimes, if a card is in high demand or essentially required for the meta, it will get reprinted. Examples being how ash blossom was somewhere between $70-$120, but now it’s at about $5-$7 for the common version. And the old/high rarity ones are still holding value. Imagine if magic masters sets did reprints like yugioh mega tins did. Those tend to have a slightly higher price than normal, but the reprints are good at all slots, not just the highest rarity.
That's the part that weirded me out when it came to that decade old article. When I first started playing I assumed foiled cards WERE their own category of rarity. I put much more value in my common rarity foiled Negate from Ixalan block than I do 4 color Omnath cause I think it's gorgeous. Ultimate, and Ghost rarity in Yugioh is Konami essentially admitting that a card is popular enough to get a blinged out reprint while secret rare is the closest to konami having a mythic rare on release in their set.
@@TheBosc to be fair though, they reprinted it to make it more accessible, rather than to make the deck playable. By the time they banned it, it had been limited for years, and sky strikers, while slowly dying for a while, maintained importance in the meta game.
I loved when they said "Mythics won't be broken nonsense. They'll be flavor wins." Then we got Baneslayer, Batterskull, and Wurmcoil Engine. I was like "Oh ok, I assumed they were lying."
I prefer the mythic rarirty distribution to the these format shifting cards than if they had all been common rarity. It's not like rare cards hadn't been broken until that point.
I remember when "Mythic" was introduced, the owner of one of the LGS's in town said it was highlighting the rares they already limit the print on. He explained that there has always been Rares printed less than others, and this was just transparency on that fact.
This is almost accurate, but not entirely accurate. The cards are printed in sheets of 11x11 (or 11x10 for some older sets). Large sets would have each rare appear once on the sheet, giving 121 or 110 rares in the set. In Alara and Zendikar, they have 15 cards appear once, and 53 cards appear twice. A card that appears once is called "R1", one that appears twice is "R2". The actual change was going from _every_ card being R1 and calling it "rare" to changing "rare" to R2 and giving R1 the new name, "mythic". They made most rares less rare than they used to be. A fetchland from Onslaught was a "rare", printed at R1, meaning each pack gives you a 1/110 chance of cracking a Polluted Delta. In Zendikar, fetches were "rare", printed at R2, giving you a 2/121 chance of cracking a Scalding Tarn.
@@helmutthat8331 probably. altrough where I was it was just a shitty chain casino with the little machines. but some people came asking for the horses.
Just wanted to say that most of the yugioh variations aren't really rarities and they are different art styles to cards. You had the same card printed at different rarities in the same set.
Different arts, however they do still affect rarities. Plus, the list shown has several rarities that are pretty much discontinued, like ghost rares, but also misses some, like short print rates or holofoil rares.
So you can open up the same card in rare and ghost rare for example? And the difference is just in the foiling? That sounds actually like a good model cause if you want bling you can get the bling and if you want the cheaper option you can get that.
@@drake11011 yes they are similar to the godzilla/showcase. Some cards in the same set have multiple rarities(called foiling in yugioh)easier to get the basic one obviously. Secret rare is usually the promo decks(mtg duel decks).
I actually liked the 3-rarity system, the rarity is the less important part of a card, the rest of the card is what makes it good or bad, mythic rarity was a deicision made thinking about money, not the health of the game.
@@fernandobanda5734 For limited purposes rare and mythic are literally the same since they use the same slot in the booster pack. Also I should add that I agree with PL and any rare card can be a mythic and vice-versa and nobody would care.
@@fernandobanda5734 even among commons some cards appear more often than others. Not everything about mythic rarity is bad but the game was better without it.
Rarities only exist for profit reasons in the first place. If it weren't for the need to push sales, cards would simply be printed to meet demand and ALL cards could be designed to be useful rather than 70% just being trash to fill packs.
'ALL cards could be designed to be useful ' Sounds like a slippery slope down the rabbit hole of powercreep. Just look at War of the Spark uncommon planeswalkers, and try to imagine if every uncommon attempted to be competitive. Yikes.
@@lincolncarvalho8739 you mean i would actually BE HAPPY to buy packs? Also, if the problem is "power creep", then it just goes to show you how poorly designed TCGs truly are. And how the true reality is that there ARENT 256+ cards in a set, theres actually more like 50 ( if we're lucky).
@@lincolncarvalho8739 This response makes absolutely no sense to me? I'm talking about intentionally making bad cards. If design space becomes an issue, WotC can just save the cardboard and not print the useless cards. I'm not even talking about every card being competitive.
In yugioh, at least they bother to put different styles of foiling on their various rarities. The idea of cards being extra rare just because they have a differently colored stamp feels so weird.
@@drakeconsumerofsoulsandche4303 So, for a good few years, yugioh had 4 rarities: Common, Rare (with a foil name), Super Rare (With foil artwork), Ultra Rare (With golden name and foil artwork), and Secret rare (With foil name and foil artwork with weird lines on it.) Yugioh also had Ghost rare, which was more like Invocations: They were less than 1 per box, and were always just higher rarity versions of cards that already existed. Recently, yugioh has switched to having common, super, ultra, and secret, with Starlight rare being the "Invocation" type cards. Each set has 4 cards (one from each other rarity) reprinted with the special starlight foiling. So throughout its history, yugioh has definitely had way more rarities, but a lot of them have only appeared in supplemental products. Golden foil cards only appear in collecters edition products, where every card is printed in gold foil, things like that.
@@drakeconsumerofsoulsandche4303 I would say rarity in yugioh is very easy to understand. It’s always been a 4-5 rarity focused game. The thing that makes it complicated is that YGO’s “expeditions” change foil styling and that’s why we have more rarities than magic. Otherwise, it’s just like magic Common,rare,super, Ultra, and Secret
@@drakeconsumerofsoulsandche4303 It sounds a bit like instead of "Masterpieces," YGO would have had "expedition rare," invocation rare," and "invention rare," with each one being the same level of rarity, but from a different set. Also, although we still call them rare or Mythic, we now have full-arts, foils, full-art foils, and alternate arts, each with a specific rarity within a set, which can change depending on whether you're opening a set booster, draft booster, or collector's booster.
As much as I agree with everything said, I think you missed a real positive of recent "rarity" design in the discussion; alternative art versions of desirable cards being in normal packs. It feels great to open an alternative art, fancy version of a rare card (the comic style triomes for example), as it's rare and special to you, but ultimately not game changing. More of this and less SL:TWD please.
I was so pissed when they added mythics to this game. They also continue to piss me off when they move cards that performed well up to mythic (looking at you Tarmogoyf).
TLDR: they actually just renamed rare to mythic rare, and created a new rarity called '"rare" There is a minor misconception here. Mythic rares occur at the same rate in packs as rares did prior to their introduction. You would have the same chance to open a Dark Confidant in Ravnica: City of Guilds as you would a Prince of Thralls in Shards of Alara. This is because they both appear 1 time on each rare sheet. With the introduction of mythic rares, they started printing each rare twice on the sheet, in addition to the mythic rares. (modern larger set rare sheets are 121 cards, 2*53 rares + 15 mythics)
Vince's point about unpopular decisions at WotC not doing all that much to dent popularity long-term and even short-term is interesting, makes me wonder just how much 'frog boiling' has been going on and how bad things would have to get to actually kill Magic.
Killing it as an IP to invest into by moneyed grifter types, you mean? Probably the same stuff that happened with other collectors' items in the 1990s, with various bubbles involving sports cards and comics. With WotC's recent focus on FOMO by way of Secret Lairs, based on Patriot Act's investigation into Supreme and the endgame suggested in that analysis (Supreme being pumped and flipped itself), that might be closer than one would assume ( slate.com/culture/2010/03/the-great-baseball-card-bubble.html www.denofgeek.com/movies/how-marvel-went-from-bankruptcy-to-billions/ th-cam.com/video/RKl_Y3EA7Sc/w-d-xo.html ). Did you mean killing it as a hobby, though? I think there's enough fan activity that Magic will go on whether or not WotC is along for the ride. I recall two of White Wolf Publishing's card games had fan sets released after the company abandoned the properties and I doubt those games ever had as large a fan base as Magic has ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vampire:_The_Eternal_Struggle en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rage_(collectible_card_game) ). One might reasonably worry about the quality of fan material but it's not like the current FIRE mandate has been particularly on point in its recent results.
The reality is that the people who go on mtg forums and watch mtg videos and leave comments on said videos are only a tiny fraction of the magic community. It's less that we're all getting used to this bs and more that most people just don't know the kind of bs going on in the first place. Which is kinda how a lot of the world's problems work. But I'd argue the silver lining here is people are getting more involved with social media, which gets the population better informed, and maybe there will be a time in the future where some online outrage makes a noticeable dent in wotc's profits.
I'm just a sample size of one, but basically, Wizard's decisions have pushed me to find cheaper ways to play Magic. First it was playing casual Commander and then it was playing Arena. I've given up on Standard outside of Arena. I can't stand the multiple bannings. At least in Arena, you get easily compensated for the cards that were banned. And I would sooner proxy Secret Lair Walking Dead cards rather than buy them.
@@JuanFelipeCalle I should disclose I haven't bought cards in nearly 15 years. At the time I noticed there was a rather ineffectual translation editorial review marring a product that had the pretense to be as expensive as it was. That and living out in the sticks without a regular playgroup didn't make Magic out to be the soundest of investments. However I can say I've played more Magic using free third party digital platforms than I ever did with paper. One could say those did more to keep me enfranchised than WotC ever did. Vince will probably object to my mentioning them directly so Google is your (slightly magic) friend, etc.
@@lostmarble540 Unfortunately social media these days perpetuates plenty of fake outrage, hyperbolic cancel culture, and all kinds of other noise - and corporations such as Hasbro are more than happy to pander to such "woke" causes because it distracts from real problems.
One of the things I like about Yu-Gi-Oh’s rarity system is that they reprint cards at lower rarities all the time. A competitive staple, Ash Blossom & Joyous Spring was reprinted at super rare from secret rare not too long ago, and that seriously ranked the price, but the secret rare version is still super expensive because some people might want that specific foiling.
This is a great way to explain people's fury over the Walking Dead secret lair - we all know that this is just the introduction of what is essentially a new super hyper butterscotch rarity that will inevitably be used to print chase super hyper butterscotch mythics.
I make decks aimed around 1st turn kills. Cobra costs two, and even if u get it out first turn before putting a land down, and then put a land down and get a bonus 1 mana, spending 2 on it doesn't work.... even if it only cost 1 to cast it wouldn't be any good for me, I almost might as well draw 6 cards.
Every single thing I said about Mythic Rarity at the time of its introduction has inevitably come to pass. They were *never* intended to be a good thing for players.
Counterpoint: they made most "staples" in the rare slot twice as easy to get, they didn't make the rarest cards more rare. Previously, all rares would generally appear once on the rare sheet, new rares appear twice. The new "mythic" is what the pre-Alara "rares" already were.
@Norman Bergmaier Don't worry, I know that now, but Unsummon isn't mythic, and a Cloud Spirit with flash wouldn't be either. Put the two together, and it's not immediately apparent why this is mythic. Murderous Rider is similar, and it actually destroys the creature.
Yeah, I always envisioned Fae of Wishes as the Mythic blue adventure instead of Borrower. If you compare the two to the other rare adventures in other colors (Bonecrusher Giant, Murderous Rider, Lovestruck Beast and Giant Killer) Borrower feels a lot more in line with those. But then again it was probably done for Limited since Borrower is a lot more powerful there than Fae
Thryx torrential gear hulk anf brazen borrow are the only creatures in my buddys kickass blue red pioneer deck. He only plays cards on your turn and uses things like ionize
it's a really good card, but I would have seen it more as a rare, as I feel it is pretty much the blue equivalent of Bonecrusher Giant (rare). Probably for the blue mythic creature in Eldraine I would have choses Fae of Wishes, as the effect of picking something from your sideboard feel more special than bouncing an opponent's permanent (without taking anything away from that ability - the Borrower is still an autoinclude in all my blue decks on Arena).
A difference with yugioh rarities is that they're all different types of foiling so feel more rewarding to pull and more distinctive, in magic a mythic is just a common with a different colour set logo and much rarer
As a collector of Legendary cards the introduction of Mythic rares was the point at which I began to lose interest in MTG. I managed to collect every Legendary up until that point but decided that I would collect no more and gave up playing not long after.
Here's another WotC screws you fact: Timespiral Timeshifted cards were free in booster packs, the List cards are 1 in 4 packs of a pack that cost more.
In Yu-Gi-Oh, a lot of the time a card's rarity is more cosmetic and less about playability (Unless it's its first printing). For example, a super good card will often be printed at Secret Rare (Or Ultra). This makes them harder to get, thus driving set value. Depending on the cards playability (And price), it will then likely be used for reprint equity for future non-core sets (Each time seeing an equal or lesser "blinged out" version). In some some cases this came be over a matter of years, other times they can tank a cards price in a matter of months (Especially if it's not very competitive). The inverse is also true for lower rarity cards (Often you'll see cards that are readily available at like $1, see a highly sought after rarity boost in the double or even sometimes triple digits). Yu-gi-oh's biggest problem has always been powercreep (As it's a non-rotating format, and needs to drive future set sales). However, at least they make the majority of their cards readily available eventually. MTG on the other hand needs to take it's foot off the powerlevels, or it needs to start making older cards more readily available.
Great video, I love hearing about the history of gameplay and design. I am a very serious player, but I have only been playing since 2016. So, I missed out on certain events and knowledge that I would only know from videos like this, or from having played at that time.
@Cody Hess the prices are respectable, they make sure to give other printings a lower rarity in order to keep value in the OG printing (unless it's an all around staple)
Tbh yugioh rarity feels alot more like they belong in 4 categories Common/Rare Super Rare and Ultra Rare Secret Rare Ultimate, Prismatic and Ghost Rare So in yugioh it ends up feeling more like 4 different rarities.
Wasn't there also a talking point about how the Mythics were going to be a way to ensure draft bombs were less likely to show up in draft and warp the draft format? A planeswalker like Jace, Memory Adept, that can mill 10 cards for zero loyalty and close out a draft game in 2-3 turns shouldn't show up as a rare. We saw in Fate Reforged how Citadel Siege had the same effect at rare and how the draft format was warped around that card. The problem then became that the Mythic Slot stopped being about draft bombs somewhere down the line and became more about constructed bombs, which lead us to our current problem.
Dream Trawler is a more recent example as a limited bomb that was printed at rare. Having it at rare was good for Standard where the card saw some moderately heavy play for a while, but whenever I hear someone talk about Theros Beyond Death limited they almost always seem to bring up how dumb of a card Dream Trawler is at rare. I'm not exactly sure how you balance the two needs perfectly. Both limited and constructed players have strong arguments as to why Trawler should be Rare/Mythic. I guess one thing you can do is make sure constructed staples and limited bombs are two mutually exclusive categories that never overlap, but that seems rather difficult from a design standpoint.
I know this is from like two years ago, but for some reason TH-cam is dragging it back into my feed - but I'd like to offer another perspective: The new rarity introduced to the game wasn't "mythic" - that's been there from the start - the _new_ rarity was "rare". Or in more technical terms, what we call "mythic" today is "R1", while "rare" is "R2" - before Alara, "rare" was what we called "R1". What are "R1" and "R2"? The number of times a card is printed on the rare sheet. Since the beginning of the game, a sheet of cards (with rare exception) has been 11x11 (or 10x11), meaning each card on it has a 1/121 chance of showing up in a booster pack. Before Alara, there was only 1 of each Rare (hence R1) on the sheet, which meant each set had 121 unique rares in total - In and since Alara, sets have had like 15 R1 mythics and 53 R2 "rares" (this appears to be slightly different after Ikoria, actually, with a spread of 20-60 or so - but the point stands). So what was the change in Alara? They went from an _all R1_ system to a mostly R2 system with some R1's. Lotus Cobra in the original Zendikar set was about as rare as a Lion's Eye Diamond from Mirage, both were printed at R1 (though Mirage used an 11x10 sheet apparently). Looking more at some of the numbers for rares in sets though, I think they started doing this a little earlier, but just didn't market it - like Darksteel only has 55 rares, so I suspect it was an 11x10 sheet and they were all R2. Mirrodin though had 88 rares, which means... 12 extra slots on the sheet? Or were there actually 12 R2 cards on the sheet? In short though, the complaints about the change to "mythic" rarity are ultimately misguided - they didn't make _some_ rares more rare, they made most rares _less_ rare. Like, fetch lands in Zendikar are rares, making them R2. You have a 2/121 chance of pulling a Scalding Tarn. Fetches from Onslaught however, despite having a "rare" set symbol, were printed at R1 (on the smaller sheet) giving you a 1/110 chance of opening a Polluted Delta. The "addition" of "mythic" made fetchlands less rare than they would have been otherwise, and than they already were from Onslaught.
Despite you saying you are a failed teacher I'd say you've taught me much more than any teacher in the us could have taught me. In terms of magic. I think
I dropped out of the game at Lorwyn. Mythics have prevented me from coming back. As soon as I read there was a new top rarity I knew I was done buying packs.
@James Black I was already getting tired of dealing with the secondary market and chase rares. That is one of the big things that burned me out. Once I realized the gambling aspect of opening packs was being pushed higher I knew all the good cards would be mythic and everything would be more expensive. They have kept some of the good cards at rare, but I have been following the game the last 2 or 3 years and I can see that all the power and money is in mythic. I always liked opening packs and getting stuff I wanted, secondary market value as a bonus to get what I was really after. Now that is far less likely.
05:42 what makes Magic the best TCG in the world is that it didn't went with the standards of the industry... It defined them, it was the king of all of them and outside of Japan, still is.
The difference between rarity in yugioh and mtg is that in ygo, rarity actually means that cards have different versions of foiling, so it actually makes more o an impact on how the cards actually look and feel, while in mtg the only difference is the colour of a small icon and the secondary market price. They also change rarities a lot, so that popular cards can be obtained in different foil versions if players prefer different ones. Mind you, yugioh has been doing this since the beginning when mtg is only doing this now in commander legends. Also, wotc knows about this, since Pokémon tcg, which is also made by wotc follows a similar pattern as yugioh does.
I don't play anymore but I was playing competitively at the time and I was instantly skeptical about the addition of Mythic Rare. The highest rarity not having the most playable cards sounded too unlikely and it didn't take long for my fears to be confirmed. Almost every planeswalker being Mythic for a time was probably the biggest sign for me that the damage had already been done. First planeswalker with 4 abilities? Mythic. It was a real shame when it happened and the poor excuse for its inclusion didn't help matters either.
I use cleansing Wildlife in my boros commander deck since it is nice land replacement. It's only a common but it helps alot. It can replace annoying lands such as Tomb of yawgmoth, Dark depths, Gaea's cradle, Cabael coffers, and even Ancient tomb! Since it's not destroying lands permanently, so your opponent will not want to shove a baloth into your face. You can use it on yourself to replace one of your lands if you did not get Correct mana fixing. Mitch told me to do this which I'm thankful for.
Nicely put Vince. I was there for all of this shit. The game used to be loved by the people who made it. I can't imagine trying to make cards with a gun to your head is fun. Try to think about that daily stress that the design team must be under. When I was younger I always wanted to be a mtg designer. I wouldn't wish that on anyone now.
Fun fact: Mtggoldfish actually wrote an article around 2013 or 2014 about whether Mythic Rares followed their promises of not just being a checklist of competitive cards. Planeswalkers got a free pass but they looked over every other mythic rare and evaluated if it was a checklist for power. Some cards like Gristlebrand were acceptable mythics but this was when Voice of Resurgence came out. That definitely didn’t “go thud” compared to older mythics
What a trip down memory lane. I actually played heavily and in tournaments all the way up until 2008 when a combination of changes to the game caused me to stop playing competitively and then subsequently sell my collection a few years later. A. They began printing mythic rares. Above and beyond all the good points you have laid out, its warped every single format in terms of price. in 2007, an expensive standard deck would have been $200. A budget standard deck would have been less than $50. Standard decks skyrocketed to nearly a thousand dollars within the next few years and unsurprisingly have continued to climb exponentially. B. The printing of planes walkers. As someone that played magic from 1999 to 2007 and loved every minute of it (well other than affinity ravager warping standard for a season and sitting through the hottest trash ever printed (Kamigawa block), I vehemently believe that planes walkers are extremely poorly designed. Those first planes walkers could come down and they immediately generated value via a lessor ability and if they went unanswered would ultimate a few turns later and effectively end the game. I played magic in a time where a UW control player would need to actually cast a creature like Exalted Angel or Eternal Dragon to turn it side ways to end the game. The printed PW's like Jace that could come down (often following a board wipe) and then completely take over a game. Worst case scenario, you play it and get to brainstorm or fate seal before it leaves play. So in contrary to creature design where 80% of the time the creature needs haste or ETB trigger to generate value the turn it comes into play, every planes walker generates value immediately and is a must answer. Worse yet, unlike a creature with haste, the opposing player had the chance to kill it before it can attack, a player casting a planes walker maintains priority following it entering play and can put one of its loyalty abilities on the stack pretty much unabated. Add to this, there was extremely limited removal for planes walkers as very few removal spells up until then purely targeted permanents. Vindicate comes to mind, and that had long since been out of standard and soon to rotate from extended. In fact magic in the years leading up to the printing of planes walkers had moved away from printed permanent based destruction. So a must answer card that generates value the turn it comes down, wins the game if it goes unanswered, and with startlingly few tools printed to deal with it immediately. C. They changed it to where combat damage no longer used the stack. At the time, this was a massive change and see how the game has come forward this actually ended up being a pretty positive change as combat damage is still relatively complex but without the somewhat counter intuitive stack interactions added to the mix. I still watch people play on TH-cam because it is fun to watch, but the idea of spending money on cardboard, albeit substandard cardboard at this point, just isn't something I am interested in doing again. Occasionally I will play paper magic with friends, -Commander with lots of proxies. WOTC get's jack shit this way. The local game store sells sleeves, dice, and some basic lands. Ehh. I miss old magic. It was such a great game. New magic is entertaining, but the economics make zero sense to me as a player.
Shards of Alara was the end of the "big prerelease events" as well. Wizards made it possible for any shop to hold prerelease events and that there wouldn't be a singular event in each state. While this was nicer for the more casual player to hop on down to play a prerelease event and not have to drive 3-5 hours to play a two day event, it made Prerelease in itself a lot less special. I miss those big events where you had 12-20 Sealed Deck tournaments, seemingly endless drafts, and a Main Event plus all the trading/buying between players as people got their playsets of cards they wanted on that special weekend. I remember talking about the new "Mythic rarity" and all of my friends were in agreement that chase cards/Standard staples were likely to be in that slot. Guess we were right.
It strikes me that most (M) creatures should be legendary. Frankly, given legendary is a restriction, it might even help to make things like Doom Whisperer less obviously rate-breaking.
I think your analysis is pretty spot on. When they switched to mythic rares I was just coming back from playing Yu-Gi-Oh and was glad that there wasn't 50 different rarities. Honestly I would prefer that mythic rarity didn't exist because outside of draft it doesn't affect anything positively. All it serves is a barrier to playing standard because you need a playset of the new chase mythic.
Honestly, I wouldn't even say it affects draft in any positive way. It's typically used as an excuse to push a card's power level beyond what it should be and say "By making it mythic it won't show up to ruin draft often", when in reality it'd be far better to actually balance them to make sure they don't ruin limited when they do show up.
if you need a play set of a certain mythic you get 1-2 in 6 box making you buy 12 -24 box to get a play set. And since they make certain mythics every tournament player wants a play set of it means it increases their sales.
I miss Gatherer comments, it was my favorite social network, used to spend more time there than in Facebook and can't help but feel that disabling comments was a way to low down the players' voices.
WotC has made new rarity’s like yugioh when they made collector boosters with showcase frames and box toppers by making variances of the same cards in a product that is made for standard.
Another controversy that was fueled by internal mythic "politics" was the Emmara Tandris/Voice of Resurgence switcheroo. Publically, the justification was that the Elemental ability was "too strong for rare" and that they "couldn't have printed it at Mythic without printing a Planewalker at Rare." Many considered this reasoning inauthentic, and argued that the card was printed at mythic based on it's alleged performance in FFL in order to make it into a Chase card. Down the line, Planewalkers were printed all the way down to Uncommon, and by the time Double Masters was released, power creep had all but made VOR inconsequential enough to be safe to print at Rare. To this day, I'm angry that I don't have an Emmara Tandris EDH deck.
Yugioh is complicated Vince, Konami has actually cut down on rarities over the years. They removed ghost rares and ultimate rares from main sets years ago, and now they removed regular “silver” rares from main sets, but introduced and ultra fancy “Starlight Rare” also known as Prismatic Secret Rare but the difference is that Starlights are extra fancy prints of cards that have “regular” Secret, Ultra or Super rares in the same set. AND for your reference, in Japan (the OCG) cards do come in even more rarities inside the same main set BUT you can always get the cheaper, most common rarity for the same card. For example, you could get a Mythic Oko or a borderless Oko and either of those in foil, so your baseline rarity is Mythic but in japanese yugioh you can get a chase card in Super as its baseline rarity (which is like 10 or more per box, adjusting for pack quantity) or get it in Secret or Ultimate or Prismatic, which are much rare but who cares, the super is 5 bux or less, same with the base Ultra that also comes in Holographic, Prismatic, Ultimate AND Secret. Also Yugioh has an expected reprint rate of 6 to 18 months, literally every and any chase card will get reprinted on that time frame and prices usually plummet in half at the very least but usually $70 chase secrets from last year today cost $2 after one or two reprints and yes, they will even reprint cards twice in a single year. So you ONLY pay the premium full price for playing the best deck of the latest set for the first 6 months, and last year decks are still playable sometimes going for much much less, and how yugioh doesn’t rotate (outside of the massive, regular banlist) there’s almost always a cheaper budget option for the best and strongest staples so you never quite need to pay the $100 for the lightning storm when you can get a $20 evenly matched or a $1 raigeki, depending on what your deck needs.
Also rarities are 100% aesthetic and actual pull rates are not fixed among products. Main sets today only have commons, super, ultra and secret rares as baseline rarities, which comes up pretty close to common, uncommon, rare and mythic but other boxes will only have super and secret rares, and on those boxes it’s more like a box with 5 commons and 1 rare for the spread of rarities. other boxes will only have regular “silver” rares and ultras, while some _only have ultras_, some products will have instead of 5 commons and 1 foil (super, ultra or secret) will have packs with 3 commons, 1 super, 1 ultra AND 1 secret, and that’s why the rarities in yugioh are mostly foiling mean nothing unless you know what kind of product it came from. by example, reprint sets will upgrade the rarity of say commons and silver rares just to give you a foil print of a really cheap card and prices will be pennies still regardless if its a super rare or a common. and there’s also a bunch of promotional rarities that don’t matter at all like gold rares, platinum rare, starfoil and shit that only come out in specific products every once in a while. For us yugioh players rarity is just a thing of availability and cosmetic preference, $100 secret rares from two years ago will come as assured commons in a preconstructed product and sell for $6, while still holding $60+ for that original much shinier print, but we will also get a super or ultra print in a reprint set that costs $9 or such for everyone that still wants a shiny but less shinier print. I personally like to have all my decks in foil, but that doesn’t mean it’s max rarity and overpriced, there’s a bunch of extremely garbage cards that cost literally 5 cents or so and were only printed as secret rares on whichever off set product and that’s fine. on the other hand my commander deck is thousands with the most cheap prints possible, and foiling it would make it cost like 10 times more???
In ygo resently, there was a very interesting case of this. Duel Devastator (Product shortname DUDE, lol). It was a product filled with stamples for players, it was great. 30$ MSRP, great value, a lot of Staples, but every card in it was ensured, there was no gamble. The only little gamble In it was getting 1 of the four field centers, but nobody cares about that. Thing is, the product didn't sell all that well. It's great for new ans budget players, but most players have some if not most of the useful cards inside. At least that's what I think, but many sellers and market men in the business say that there was no gamble, and that made it way less exciting to rip open. The gamble sells cardboard.
Dear PK, Goyf was a Mythic before Mythic rares existed. In Future Sight, the future shifted cards appeared at a different rarity. You would mostly get commons and sometimes uncommons and, very close to the rate of Mythics, about 1 in 8 packs got a future shifted rare. That block was more than nostalgia, it was also a testing ground for mythic rares and distribution. Time Spiral, and Planar Chaos did this as well with the time shifted/plane shifted rares showing up at a rate similar to mytics today.
As someone who played before mythics and took a break from shadowmoor till khans mythics piss me off. We already had an effective 6 rares due to foils. Adding 2 rarities(mythic and mythic foil) was just a bad idea in my eyes.
Mark is totally right though. I stopped playing around Portal and only came back to the game when I I found out that they had introduced a new rarity. Didn't have anything to do with Arena making the game more accessible or all the advertising around War of the Spark. Those were all meh, it was that oh so fancy Mythic rarity that really drew me in.
Omg, I just made comments on Secret Lair videos a week ago bringing up mythic rarity history. I basically said people need to put this in perspective. Cool to finally see a content creator taking perspective instead of solely hopping on the secret lair hype train as the one thing killing magic...
What they don't point out with Yugioh with all these rarities, is that things like ghost rare and ultimate rare are just higher rarity versions of cards within the same set they're printed in (until ulti and ghost "discontinuing"). And the easiest straight forward example is the current showcase boarders. Jace TMS (WWK) is your secret rare, in the same set you could pull the double masters full art being the ultimate rare and then, still in the same set you could pull the mythic edition as the Ghost rare. All 3 rarities of the card contained within the same set, a pull rate percentile apart (do your research for the exact rarity average, it has changed over the years), doesn't seem so over the top does it? One can argue this actually increases your chances of pulling the card within "that slot" of your pack. YuGiOh is also a Japanese card game in conception and nature. The Japanese like lots of rarities that just go one step over each other. If you just look at games like Vanguard, Duel Masters, Modern era Pokémon, you can see this is apparent. YuGiOh as well has a different design ethic between OCG (Asian territories) and TCG (Non Asian territories). In OCG, format staples and cards for deck archetypes are largely lower rarity so that they're accessible to everyone (this is more easily discernible in the more modern sets, DUEA up is an easy benchmark), then release products that have two purposes, reprint and rarity bump. Where as in the TCG for the most part things are high rarity from the get go for archetypes and staples are almost guaranteed to be in the Secret rare slot (currently the "highest" rarity) in main and supplemental booster sets.
It doesn't fit the narrative, for one. Yugioh bad, Magic good, laugh at people that play a different game and aren't completely beholden to WotC. Second, it's easy to be ignorant and just say things after 5 minutes of research. Which is Konami's fault for making this confusing for a pure layman.
I am what some may call an relativly OG player as I played during the early days of Magic. I quit after 8th edition came out and the redesign of the cards plus massive rule changes happened. I didn't buy new cards or anything. Last year I got back into magic because of the commander format. There was so many new things I had to learn, like no mana burn, new end of combat phase, planeswalkers, equipment, artifacts don't have summoning sickness, new abilities, mythics, and much more. I remember back in the day magic was simple and combo decks were far rarer, now that seems to be all there is. Back in the day buying and selling cards individually wasn't common, while trading was. Now people just sell and buy cards and trading is rare. People that didn't play tournament didn't care about ban lists and which set you used. Now with all these modes, and by the way standard is standard as you can't use any card ever outside ban list, people don't like it if you don't adhere to the rules and ban list. Casual just feels like tournament lite. I just made a deck I thought was cool outta cards I had and played. 40 to 60 card decks and 4 of any given card, simple.
Limited also makes the situation more complicated. A lot of draft players would have much preferred Dream Trawler be a mythic (in Theros Beyond Death) since that card is so game warping in that format, but then that would hurt constructed players where the card saw some moderately heavy play as a control finisher in Standard (at least for a while, IDK if it does anymore). How do you navigate situations like this where a card is going to be a reasonable staple in constructed but absolutely bonkers and unfun in limited where there is less flexibility to answer bombs?
I remember back in Zendikar days Jund was the best deck around and Maelstrom pulse (which wasn't even a mythic) was a $35 card. Everyone complained it was unsustainable and standard decks were starting to cost too much money feels like it was an eternity ago.
To be fair about the Yugioh rarities, at the time, Ultimate and Ghost rares were upgraded rarities of certain cards in the set. Basically they’re for collectors or people who want to bling out their deck. Main sets only had common, rare, super, and ultra as the standard rarities. Secret rare was dropped and then brought back, and I think it was back in sets in 2008. Nowadays, rare has been dropped from main sets and ghost and ultimate rare are relegated to tournament packs and side sets. Main sets have starlight rare as a collector tier rarity and it’s just an upgraded rarity. Just thought I’d mention it to clear that up.
One of the guys at my LGS qualified for a PTQ back when Shadows over Innistrad released, and the PTQ was SOI sealed. We did a small sealed event at our LGS to help him practice but it didn't do him any good as his sealed pool at the PTQ was garbage. He said 7 of the 8 people at the top 8 were carried there by opening an Archangel Avacyn in their pool. And three of them also had the oomph of Sigarda, Heron's grace powering their deck as well. Yaaay for pushed mythics.......not.
TCG's are not considered gambling in most countries due to a loophole. To make a product considered as a gamble it needs to involve a chance to win either A: Money or B: luxury items as prices (thinks for example cars) with the chance to get nothing out of your purchase. Cards, in of themselves, aren worth anything, and collector market prices do not affect this. It's the same legal loophole that stuff like lootboxes and the like also used, and which is also part of Japans gambling scene, because places like Pachinko parlor have found a way around the ban of gambling in the country by using the same loophole for example.
Oh man speaking of rarities screwing with limited, my first ever GP was Aether Revolt sealed and I remember I lost to a borderline constructed abzan counters deck with three on-color mythics in it (Ajani, the green Gearhulk and the black gearhulk) as well as two snakes and a ballista... I really wanted to call a judge on him to have him verify his pool, but since it was my first large event I didn’t have the confidence to do so.
When they announced Mythics, hot on the heels of Planeswalkers, I actually quit the game for some time. The last pre-release I attended was Eventide. I stayed away up until Kaladesh, when I discovered Tolarian Community College videos, thought the flavor of the plane seemed neat and Energy was an interesting resource management addition, and jumped back in, went to a pre-release, having completely forgotten what had lead to me burning out and quitting. I really regret falling back into this game now, given how much worse WotC continues to treat its players (I don't enjoy or play EDH, so there has been no relief this year). I don't see it ever getting better for us customers.
One thing I'll say about those yugioh rarities, is that some (starfoil and mosaic) are basically Commons for special sets, and stuff like starlight, ghost and ultimate rates are designed to be collectibles. No cards are made with a plan to just be an ulti
Gotta say my least favorite rarity gotta be Secret Rare, a few years ago they printed some exclusive cards there and now I just avoid the rarity in its entirety
Going off of Yu'Gi-Oh's rarities, MtG has a rather ridiculous amount then. The standard Common/Uncommon/Rare/Mythic (plus Basic Land, but that was already being discounted) Standard foil (theoretically making that four/five more rarities) From the Vault Foil Etched Foil Gold Etched Foil (Secret Lair: MSCHF) Silverscreen Foil (Innistrad: Double Feature) Neon Ink Foil (Kamigawa: Neon Dynasty) Gilded Foil (Streets of New Capenna) Textured Foil (Double Masters) Galaxy Foil (Unfinity) Surge Foil (Warhammer 40k) Double-rainbow Foil (Brothers' War Serialized artifacts) Step-and-compleat Foil (Phyrexia: All Will Be One) Oil Slick Raised Foil (Phyrexia: All Will Be One) This is discounting Borderless, Extended Art, Textless, Masterpiece, Invention, Invocation, Mystical Archive, Showcase, Planeshifted, and/or Futureshifted as not being their own rarity You know it's bad when you have to dive in a wiki to find all this lol
Getting back into Magic after a decade away, really enjoying your videos. You have a wonderfully irreverent style that makes even your product promotions entertaining to watch. Great stuff, pleade keep it up 👍
funny actually how they got "draft bombs that dont affect constructed" perfectly right with conspiracy. theres mythic rare conspiracy cards (in the draft-matters slot) that do nothing in constructed- shame they couldnt do that elsewhere
I think the initial outrage wasn't as big as it should have been because Alara was pretty careful with mythics overall. If the change to mythic happened with Zendikar ppl would have been a lot more pissed about it. I remember disliking it, my reason was "what's the fucking point?" but not caring all too much back then. I still was a child after all and was just playing casually with my friends. The realization came later when they reprinted the OG planeswalkers the first time - now at mythic. I pulled Ajani from a Lorwyn booster at rare, this was the only planeswalker I had for a very long time outside of the ones that came in duel decks (which were great). This is also a reason why my friends and I loved War of the Spark so much because it once again had planeswalkers at rarities below mythic for the first time since Lorwyn so we actually got to play with them which was exciting. Regardless of how messed up Mirrodin block was, putting cards like Skullclamp and Aether Vial at uncommon as cards that potentially would see a lot of play was really nice. Or think about cards like Force of Will, Ancient Tomb or Demonic Tutor, those cards also are uncommons because they are cards that you should have access to in order to build strong decks. Nowadays decks are usually filled with rares and mythics and decks cost a shitton of money...
I was someone who left when Alara arrived, albeit for different reasons. Having recently come back for some casual Arena games (and shaken my head at some of the cards printed while I was away) I think the most egregious example of "shouldn't be mythic" recently was Brazen Borrowers... nothing splashy, just loads of value so it is a required card.
The change from the long established precedent of 15 mythics per set to 20 in ZNR is a big deal for card (in)accessibility. I'm kinda surprised people aren't more upset about that.
You're wrong though. 5 of the mythics appear in their own slot, so they don't affect the other 15. In fact, mythics now appear 1 in every 7.4 boosters instead of 1 every 8 boosters.
@@fernandobanda5734 Congrats, you got bamboozled by Hasbro marketing. An 8% increase in Mythic frequency doesn't compensate for a 33% increase in the number of mythics. You would need a mythic in every 6 packs to keep the frequency of each individual mythic the same as before.
@@fernandobanda5734 lol you got bamboozled hard. It doesn't matter if you create a new "slot" or whatever, you can't fit 20 mythics into 16 mythics' worth of space without making them less frequent.
Not only are there mythics, we had "ultra-mythics" "masterpiece" cards with Zendikar expeditions, Amonkhet invocations (that also looked like dogshit), Kaladesh inventions etc. I think every set they are now pushing extra rare variants of regular cards or reprints of old cards that look like ass and not even like a magic card at all. It's not just full arts, that would actually be fine by me, if it's not a textless cryptic command, but tons of weird stuff that honestly hinder immediate, fast readability and therefore playability of the cards. They already have enough stupid design decisions that are a headache to read like aftermath from Amonkhet and now sagas. Aftermath was just a mess that could have been just been in the textbox like flashback, but instead we got tiny and crowded pictures of text, half of which is sideways. And sagas are like vertical phone videos and newspaper columns thrown together. It's like magic frame designers not only never went to design or art school, but they also have no natural sense of the topic at all and snorted a bunch of whatever before they came up with this stuff. So when they reprint really sought after cards, or print their new busted cards, they either reprint them at this mythic or ultra mythic rarity, or as part of the box topper or other promo stuff, or in collector boosters or in over priced horizon or masters sets etc. etc. Because help us god if magic becomes actually more affordable again, how is wizards going to make even more money? People used be able to collect all the cards in the set, by just buying a box and trading, but now there are so many weird products like commander sets and masters and horizons and collector boosters and promos and secret lairs(which fuck over the LGS because they can only be bought directly from wizards)... I get the appeal in variety, but wizards just has lost the fucking plot. about 5 years ago.
From an availability standpoint there are no rarities in MTG, just costs. If you play at more than the fun level you'll just buy the singles from on of the many outlets available worldwide. From a play perspective, the rarity system only really effects draft and sealed.
So it is to my knowledge only, but I was under the impression that mythic rares always existed even if they weren't differently labeled. I think they misjudged the damage that mythic rarity did, because thats roughly when i remember going from cracking packs and trading to buying and selling cards for absolute value reference. I always thought constructed should exist generally above the commons level. Uncommons should be staples that can float between decks easily, but remain useful and playable. Sprite Dragon, Veil, and many new Doom Blade variants worked out this way. I think the game needs a lot more of these to remain accessible. While Delver is a common and the bane of eternal formats, it is also genuinely a good thing that one of the more impactful (non-land) cards in the game is a 1-mana common (but also blue. Because you know, Blue doesnt get much else). Rares should be half a step stronger but narrow in some way. Cobra is a stronger card than a mana dork, but conditional on land drops suiting your curve in a meaningful way. Yeah it's a bit undercut by the fact that you want to be doing that anyway. But still. Mythics used to be the kind of card that needed your deck to have helper cards for them to be meaningful. Mirror mad phantasm has some really interesting potential, but you arent just jamming it into every pile.
As someone who got into Magic after briefly dabbling with Yu-Gi-Oh while in school I found it really refreshing that Magic did not have that gaudy, superlative-laden myriad of rarities. So I really liked the three rarities. I can live with mythic though I wasn't excited when they introduced it. Better then the maze of special treatments now - extremely confusing and creating another system of rarities through the backdoor.
Correct me if I'm wrong but rares were never printed at the same rate as each other. There were always cards that would show up on a sheet less than other rares and the change to the naming scheme and color markings were just to help make the consumer aware of the general rarity of a card (to boost the gambling aspect cause cracking packs is all about getting that sweet come up).
Ah, Baneslayer. If nothing else back in the day (around Zendikar standard, maybe also Worldwake/RoE) it was a pretty good sideboard card against monored aggro. They typically didn't have many/any spells that could efficiently deal with it, couldn't attack into it, and meant that you'd probably win a race due to the 10 point swings every time it attack. But yeah, things have power crept so much in the past decade that it just can't do that anymore. It's not even that red can deal with it well, but rather that aggro decks are even faster that you can't rely on a 5 mana sideboard card to stabilize you anymore.
can you do a video about the size of sets starting to grow again? When they cut from over 300 card sets to 249ish card large sets and two small sets, it was to trim the chaff from standard. Now we get four large standard sets a year and they are getting BIG... plus there are the reprint sets with Double Masters as the signpost for wizards moving to high variance non standard sets with a LOT of rares and mythics...
The one explanation i heard that i thought made sense was "as you go up the rarity scale cards will get more complicated, mythic is just a way to make it so super complicated rares arent constantly opened" which I can buy seeing that the last 3 blocks were time spiral, lorwyn and shadowmoor (3 of the most complex blocks imo)
good and interesting piece. from earlier on (Legends) I would make sure I had a complete play set of every card in every set. I would buy sufficient boxes to do this. I would end up with so many commons that I would throw them away, so I shifted to buying complete sets instead. This proved cheaper. When Mythics came out, the cost of doing this doubled and even tripled over time. It became cost prohibitive and I quit buying sets with mythics, and eventual got out of the game except for buying preconstructed decks. Mythics drove me from the game. I have only recently jumped back in, but mostly playing arena which in one year costs less than half of a complete play set including mythics used to cost for one set. On a different topic, but the same, the design and creative and production process is handled in one part of the business. The part of the business that focuses on sales would be the marketing department. It is not like this is a "on high" department relative to the production of the game, it is in fact a peer. It is a business and it is their job to earn profits. I agree with your points. Acting to get short term gains may create long term vulnerabilities for the brand. Like you, I could go on and on about these issues. I can only hope that they understand the delicate balances in the process.
Just to clarify for PleasentKenobi and those who do not know yugioh, the way that rarities work in yugioh is different from the way they work in magic, in magic, when we talk about an isolated product like zendikar rising for example, a card will only exist in one rarity in that product (if the card is rare, it is only rare, you will not open a mythical version of a card that is rare inside a booster of the same product for example), in yugioh it is different, from common to ultra rare the cards are unique , but when we talk about ghost rare, ultimate rare, etc. They are just alternative versions of cards of the same product, so an ultimate rare card for example, it is not a card that exists only in this rarity, you can gain it as an ultra rare in the same product, the best comparison is that these other rarities are like the special treatments that started with the masterpieces, and there also rarities that apears only in special products (and they have the same role to be only alternate treatments of cards that you can gain in different rarities, but exceptions exist), the same way that the new foil tratement that will be introduced in commander legends will probably be a exclusive thing to that product for example, also, im brazilian, so my english is not the best
I'm done with standard. Decided today, been deciding for a few months. I can't afford to drop usd on cardboard in my chosen colours and then find they weren't designed to be tier1 and therefore I can't get anywhere with them. I hate playing meta decks, and those are all pre-constructed nowadays. Screw magic, I'm done.
Sorry but if you're first choosing colors instead of evaluating the cards, I don't know how you expect to combat tier 1 decks. I agree that some current stuff is very powerful, but even in a healthy meta there's going to be a few good decks. You can choose not to play those but you'll be at a disadvantage.
I never really cared for the introduction of Mythic. What I did like was the purple Special rarity for Time Shifted cards. Personally I wish the expeditions were that Special rarity cause really they were shifting cards from the past into the set in question. No need for a special symbol, as it would then just be part of the set. And I realize they did the other set symbol because they didn't want people to think it was part of the set and thus legal in standard but I just feel it would have been nice to have the purple Special rarity mean it is a card shifted into the present from the past. I also feel that reprint sets should just always watermark the cards with their original printing like they did with Masters 25, so maybe I shouldn't be in charge of card graphic design. But I mean how cool would it be to have Chronicles printed in black boarder with the set symbols as a watermark and the glob set symbol of Chronicles between the art and textbox.
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MTG already has a Yu-Gi-Oh type of card rarity system. The different frames/full art cards are akin to what Yu-Gi-Oh does with its different rarities (just different foiling). The major difference is that WoTC doesn't intentionally short print cards, it just creates shitty mythics to make you gamble more for the better mythics.
@The Real Nihilus clearly yargle
so like... battle royale is one of my favorite cult movies of all time
Speaking of gambling its like play arena. But at least you when yall get a mythic. In real life though don't waste your time . Lol
This is an outrage! I demand a recount!
Something smells fishy.
I gave you a mythic click, since I only click on approximately 1 of every 8 thumbs up icons
Thank you!
“They will not be a list of each set’s most powerful tournament-level cards”
This is the lie.
@@mtgmeansmagic4758 well not all of the most powerfull cards.
Just most of them^^
@@drake11011 i mean lately a lot of rares have drastically outperformed the mythics in non standard formats
At least Yu-Gi-Oh's rarity treatments are mostly just different foilings. They reprint incredibly in-demand cards at lower rarities all the time to protect collectible value of higher rarity versions while still giving their players GAME PIECES
Exactly. While it takes a while to get reprints sometimes, if a card is in high demand or essentially required for the meta, it will get reprinted. Examples being how ash blossom was somewhere between $70-$120, but now it’s at about $5-$7 for the common version. And the old/high rarity ones are still holding value. Imagine if magic masters sets did reprints like yugioh mega tins did. Those tend to have a slightly higher price than normal, but the reprints are good at all slots, not just the highest rarity.
having engage reprinted almost two years after release then banning it after their big reprints is a cock
That's the part that weirded me out when it came to that decade old article. When I first started playing I assumed foiled cards WERE their own category of rarity. I put much more value in my common rarity foiled Negate from Ixalan block than I do 4 color Omnath cause I think it's gorgeous. Ultimate, and Ghost rarity in Yugioh is Konami essentially admitting that a card is popular enough to get a blinged out reprint while secret rare is the closest to konami having a mythic rare on release in their set.
“They will not be a list of each set’s most powerful tournament-level cards”
This is the lie.
@@TheBosc to be fair though, they reprinted it to make it more accessible, rather than to make the deck playable. By the time they banned it, it had been limited for years, and sky strikers, while slowly dying for a while, maintained importance in the meta game.
I loved when they said "Mythics won't be broken nonsense. They'll be flavor wins." Then we got Baneslayer, Batterskull, and Wurmcoil Engine.
I was like "Oh ok, I assumed they were lying."
Wurmcoil engine isn’t broken. It’s just very good. Especially because it go in basically every deck ever
Now with Sheoldred and Liliana of the Veil
I prefer the mythic rarirty distribution to the these format shifting cards than if they had all been common rarity. It's not like rare cards hadn't been broken until that point.
I remember when "Mythic" was introduced, the owner of one of the LGS's in town said it was highlighting the rares they already limit the print on. He explained that there has always been Rares printed less than others, and this was just transparency on that fact.
This happens with uncommons too. KCI for example
Rares did use to be less common even if you go by the numbers they showed.
*Cough* fatal push *Cough*
This is almost accurate, but not entirely accurate. The cards are printed in sheets of 11x11 (or 11x10 for some older sets). Large sets would have each rare appear once on the sheet, giving 121 or 110 rares in the set. In Alara and Zendikar, they have 15 cards appear once, and 53 cards appear twice. A card that appears once is called "R1", one that appears twice is "R2". The actual change was going from _every_ card being R1 and calling it "rare" to changing "rare" to R2 and giving R1 the new name, "mythic".
They made most rares less rare than they used to be. A fetchland from Onslaught was a "rare", printed at R1, meaning each pack gives you a 1/110 chance of cracking a Polluted Delta. In Zendikar, fetches were "rare", printed at R2, giving you a 2/121 chance of cracking a Scalding Tarn.
At long last.
Oh shit whaddup you got a tick!
as someone that worked in a casino London soho let me tell you. gambling should be abolished to the worst of hells
Doesn't Horse Racing have a much bigger presence in the UK gambling scene? It is barely a thing in the US anymore.
@@helmutthat8331 probably. altrough where I was it was just a shitty chain casino with the little machines. but some people came asking for the horses.
A tought that snooker should be abolished in britain.
Just wanted to say that most of the yugioh variations aren't really rarities and they are different art styles to cards. You had the same card printed at different rarities in the same set.
Also amazing content like usual mate
Thank you, i was curious about that!
Different arts, however they do still affect rarities. Plus, the list shown has several rarities that are pretty much discontinued, like ghost rares, but also misses some, like short print rates or holofoil rares.
So you can open up the same card in rare and ghost rare for example?
And the difference is just in the foiling? That sounds actually like a good model cause if you want bling you can get the bling and if you want the cheaper option you can get that.
@@drake11011 yes they are similar to the godzilla/showcase. Some cards in the same set have multiple rarities(called foiling in yugioh)easier to get the basic one obviously. Secret rare is usually the promo decks(mtg duel decks).
For some reason this video gave me a mental image of a gray 60 year old Vince saying, "I'm only 21"
I actually liked the 3-rarity system, the rarity is the less important part of a card, the rest of the card is what makes it good or bad, mythic rarity was a deicision made thinking about money, not the health of the game.
If rarity already mattered for Limited and to not spread against more casual environments, mythic rares absolutely help the game.
@@fernandobanda5734 For limited purposes rare and mythic are literally the same since they use the same slot in the booster pack. Also I should add that I agree with PL and any rare card can be a mythic and vice-versa and nobody would care.
@@pyro2708 Individual mythics have half the likeliness to appear of individual rares. It does matter.
@@fernandobanda5734 meh drafting worked just fine back in the day play my ornithopter equip that shit with a bonesplitter =profits
@@fernandobanda5734 even among commons some cards appear more often than others. Not everything about mythic rarity is bad but the game was better without it.
Rarities only exist for profit reasons in the first place. If it weren't for the need to push sales, cards would simply be printed to meet demand and ALL cards could be designed to be useful rather than 70% just being trash to fill packs.
bUt WhAt AbOuT tHe DrAfT fOrMaT
@@Tirvops cube (well the good ones) shows you dont need jank in the format
'ALL cards could be designed to be useful ' Sounds like a slippery slope down the rabbit hole of powercreep. Just look at War of the Spark uncommon planeswalkers, and try to imagine if every uncommon attempted to be competitive. Yikes.
@@lincolncarvalho8739 you mean i would actually BE HAPPY to buy packs? Also, if the problem is "power creep", then it just goes to show you how poorly designed TCGs truly are. And how the true reality is that there ARENT 256+ cards in a set, theres actually more like 50 ( if we're lucky).
@@lincolncarvalho8739 This response makes absolutely no sense to me? I'm talking about intentionally making bad cards. If design space becomes an issue, WotC can just save the cardboard and not print the useless cards. I'm not even talking about every card being competitive.
In yugioh, at least they bother to put different styles of foiling on their various rarities. The idea of cards being extra rare just because they have a differently colored stamp feels so weird.
Doesnt YGO have a ton more rarities?
@@drakeconsumerofsoulsandche4303 So, for a good few years, yugioh had 4 rarities: Common, Rare (with a foil name), Super Rare (With foil artwork), Ultra Rare (With golden name and foil artwork), and Secret rare (With foil name and foil artwork with weird lines on it.)
Yugioh also had Ghost rare, which was more like Invocations: They were less than 1 per box, and were always just higher rarity versions of cards that already existed.
Recently, yugioh has switched to having common, super, ultra, and secret, with Starlight rare being the "Invocation" type cards. Each set has 4 cards (one from each other rarity) reprinted with the special starlight foiling.
So throughout its history, yugioh has definitely had way more rarities, but a lot of them have only appeared in supplemental products. Golden foil cards only appear in collecters edition products, where every card is printed in gold foil, things like that.
@@chibiraptor while written concisely and clearly, my head still cant get around this many rarities ever needing to exist
@@drakeconsumerofsoulsandche4303 I would say rarity in yugioh is very easy to understand. It’s always been a 4-5 rarity focused game. The thing that makes it complicated is that YGO’s “expeditions” change foil styling and that’s why we have more rarities than magic.
Otherwise, it’s just like magic
Common,rare,super, Ultra, and Secret
@@drakeconsumerofsoulsandche4303 It sounds a bit like instead of "Masterpieces," YGO would have had "expedition rare," invocation rare," and "invention rare," with each one being the same level of rarity, but from a different set. Also, although we still call them rare or Mythic, we now have full-arts, foils, full-art foils, and alternate arts, each with a specific rarity within a set, which can change depending on whether you're opening a set booster, draft booster, or collector's booster.
As much as I agree with everything said, I think you missed a real positive of recent "rarity" design in the discussion; alternative art versions of desirable cards being in normal packs. It feels great to open an alternative art, fancy version of a rare card (the comic style triomes for example), as it's rare and special to you, but ultimately not game changing. More of this and less SL:TWD please.
I was so pissed when they added mythics to this game. They also continue to piss me off when they move cards that performed well up to mythic (looking at you Tarmogoyf).
It only helps limited. It hurts every other format.
TLDR: they actually just renamed rare to mythic rare, and created a new rarity called '"rare"
There is a minor misconception here. Mythic rares occur at the same rate in packs as rares did prior to their introduction. You would have the same chance to open a Dark Confidant in Ravnica: City of Guilds as you would a Prince of Thralls in Shards of Alara. This is because they both appear 1 time on each rare sheet. With the introduction of mythic rares, they started printing each rare twice on the sheet, in addition to the mythic rares. (modern larger set rare sheets are 121 cards, 2*53 rares + 15 mythics)
Vince's point about unpopular decisions at WotC not doing all that much to dent popularity long-term and even short-term is interesting, makes me wonder just how much 'frog boiling' has been going on and how bad things would have to get to actually kill Magic.
Killing it as an IP to invest into by moneyed grifter types, you mean?
Probably the same stuff that happened with other collectors' items in the 1990s, with various bubbles involving sports cards and comics. With WotC's recent focus on FOMO by way of Secret Lairs, based on Patriot Act's investigation into Supreme and the endgame suggested in that analysis (Supreme being pumped and flipped itself), that might be closer than one would assume ( slate.com/culture/2010/03/the-great-baseball-card-bubble.html www.denofgeek.com/movies/how-marvel-went-from-bankruptcy-to-billions/ th-cam.com/video/RKl_Y3EA7Sc/w-d-xo.html ).
Did you mean killing it as a hobby, though?
I think there's enough fan activity that Magic will go on whether or not WotC is along for the ride. I recall two of White Wolf Publishing's card games had fan sets released after the company abandoned the properties and I doubt those games ever had as large a fan base as Magic has ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vampire:_The_Eternal_Struggle en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rage_(collectible_card_game) ). One might reasonably worry about the quality of fan material but it's not like the current FIRE mandate has been particularly on point in its recent results.
The reality is that the people who go on mtg forums and watch mtg videos and leave comments on said videos are only a tiny fraction of the magic community. It's less that we're all getting used to this bs and more that most people just don't know the kind of bs going on in the first place. Which is kinda how a lot of the world's problems work. But I'd argue the silver lining here is people are getting more involved with social media, which gets the population better informed, and maybe there will be a time in the future where some online outrage makes a noticeable dent in wotc's profits.
I'm just a sample size of one, but basically, Wizard's decisions have pushed me to find cheaper ways to play Magic. First it was playing casual Commander and then it was playing Arena. I've given up on Standard outside of Arena. I can't stand the multiple bannings. At least in Arena, you get easily compensated for the cards that were banned. And I would sooner proxy Secret Lair Walking Dead cards rather than buy them.
@@JuanFelipeCalle I should disclose I haven't bought cards in nearly 15 years. At the time I noticed there was a rather ineffectual translation editorial review marring a product that had the pretense to be as expensive as it was. That and living out in the sticks without a regular playgroup didn't make Magic out to be the soundest of investments.
However I can say I've played more Magic using free third party digital platforms than I ever did with paper. One could say those did more to keep me enfranchised than WotC ever did.
Vince will probably object to my mentioning them directly so Google is your (slightly magic) friend, etc.
@@lostmarble540 Unfortunately social media these days perpetuates plenty of fake outrage, hyperbolic cancel culture, and all kinds of other noise - and corporations such as Hasbro are more than happy to pander to such "woke" causes because it distracts from real problems.
One of the things I like about Yu-Gi-Oh’s rarity system is that they reprint cards at lower rarities all the time. A competitive staple, Ash Blossom & Joyous Spring was reprinted at super rare from secret rare not too long ago, and that seriously ranked the price, but the secret rare version is still super expensive because some people might want that specific foiling.
This is a great way to explain people's fury over the Walking Dead secret lair - we all know that this is just the introduction of what is essentially a new super hyper butterscotch rarity that will inevitably be used to print chase super hyper butterscotch mythics.
I'm still playing Lotus Cobra in Sultai, it's pretty darn good.
Yeah, dunno why people just sometimes drop cards after something from their deck gets banned.
Temur ramp is pretty dang good still with it as well.
Cobra is one of the best 2 drop mana dorks in the entire game...
I make decks aimed around 1st turn kills. Cobra costs two, and even if u get it out first turn before putting a land down, and then put a land down and get a bonus 1 mana, spending 2 on it doesn't work.... even if it only cost 1 to cast it wouldn't be any good for me, I almost might as well draw 6 cards.
@@neverrip875 Unless you play fucking legacy/vintage none of what you said makes any sense outside of jank
Every single thing I said about Mythic Rarity at the time of its introduction has inevitably come to pass. They were *never* intended to be a good thing for players.
Counterpoint: they made most "staples" in the rare slot twice as easy to get, they didn't make the rarest cards more rare. Previously, all rares would generally appear once on the rare sheet, new rares appear twice. The new "mythic" is what the pre-Alara "rares" already were.
"Lands can't be mythic"
...maze's end broke that pattern
If I’m not mistaken, did Eye of Ugin come first?
@@devinwheeler4637 even more ironic as that was one set later
Mana Confluence is going to be mythic too
Cavern of souls "upgraded" to mythic...
@Jay Morales i was referring to eye of ugin in worldwake, follow a discussion
The “doesn’t go thud when it hits the table” sentiment is how I feel about Brazen Borrower being mythic. It’s hella powerful but just so boring.
It took me a while to understand why it even was mythic. It's a fusion of two vanilla things, which makes it a lot better but no less vanilla.
@Norman Bergmaier Don't worry, I know that now, but Unsummon isn't mythic, and a Cloud Spirit with flash wouldn't be either. Put the two together, and it's not immediately apparent why this is mythic. Murderous Rider is similar, and it actually destroys the creature.
Yeah, I always envisioned Fae of Wishes as the Mythic blue adventure instead of Borrower. If you compare the two to the other rare adventures in other colors (Bonecrusher Giant, Murderous Rider, Lovestruck Beast and Giant Killer) Borrower feels a lot more in line with those. But then again it was probably done for Limited since Borrower is a lot more powerful there than Fae
Thryx torrential gear hulk anf brazen borrow are the only creatures in my buddys kickass blue red pioneer deck. He only plays cards on your turn and uses things like ionize
it's a really good card, but I would have seen it more as a rare, as I feel it is pretty much the blue equivalent of Bonecrusher Giant (rare). Probably for the blue mythic creature in Eldraine I would have choses Fae of Wishes, as the effect of picking something from your sideboard feel more special than bouncing an opponent's permanent (without taking anything away from that ability - the Borrower is still an autoinclude in all my blue decks on Arena).
A difference with yugioh rarities is that they're all different types of foiling so feel more rewarding to pull and more distinctive, in magic a mythic is just a common with a different colour set logo and much rarer
Holy shit PK i 21??? I thought i he was In hes late 20s or early 30s???
This seems to be a running joke on the channel... but you never know, I've had a beard since I was 17 and no one could correctly guess my age.
Yeah he is 21
He's been saying he's 21 for literal years. It's a running gag.
@@jemolk8945 why would you lie to these good people? He's 21.
@@Gooman130 Obviously, he has been 21 for the past 3 years. He keeps reminding us.
As a collector of Legendary cards the introduction of Mythic rares was the point at which I began to lose interest in MTG. I managed to collect every Legendary up until that point but decided that I would collect no more and gave up playing not long after.
Here's another WotC screws you fact:
Timespiral Timeshifted cards were free in booster packs, the List cards are 1 in 4 packs of a pack that cost more.
They did add a new rarity, expeditions my dude. They are just secret rares
They are the equivalent to pre-2016 YGO Ultimate/Ghost Rares, or PTCG secret rare items.
In Yu-Gi-Oh, a lot of the time a card's rarity is more cosmetic and less about playability (Unless it's its first printing).
For example, a super good card will often be printed at Secret Rare (Or Ultra). This makes them harder to get, thus driving set value. Depending on the cards playability (And price), it will then likely be used for reprint equity for future non-core sets (Each time seeing an equal or lesser "blinged out" version). In some some cases this came be over a matter of years, other times they can tank a cards price in a matter of months (Especially if it's not very competitive). The inverse is also true for lower rarity cards (Often you'll see cards that are readily available at like $1, see a highly sought after rarity boost in the double or even sometimes triple digits).
Yu-gi-oh's biggest problem has always been powercreep (As it's a non-rotating format, and needs to drive future set sales). However, at least they make the majority of their cards readily available eventually. MTG on the other hand needs to take it's foot off the powerlevels, or it needs to start making older cards more readily available.
Great video, I love hearing about the history of gameplay and design. I am a very serious player, but I have only been playing since 2016. So, I missed out on certain events and knowledge that I would only know from videos like this, or from having played at that time.
Really glad you enjoyed it!
@@PleasantKenobi Hell yeah you're awesome man, ever since I first saw you on Dies to Removal I've been a fan. Keep it up!
@James Black HE HAS A TH-cam CHANNEL!?
“They will not be a list of each set’s most powerful tournament-level cards”
This is the lie.
Yu-Gi-Oh doesn't use all the rarities in every set (they also make cards more accessible faster).
And they semi-recently removed one of the rarities from standard booster sets to make accessibility easier to new, returning, and current players.
Man. Dont.
@Cody Hess and because of this don't have to deal with $100 fetchlands to make their decks payable
@Cody Hess the prices are respectable, they make sure to give other printings a lower rarity in order to keep value in the OG printing (unless it's an all around staple)
They also constantly reprint the same card at multiple rarities
Tbh yugioh rarity feels alot more like they belong in 4 categories
Common/Rare
Super Rare and Ultra Rare
Secret Rare
Ultimate, Prismatic and Ghost Rare
So in yugioh it ends up feeling more like 4 different rarities.
Wasn't there also a talking point about how the Mythics were going to be a way to ensure draft bombs were less likely to show up in draft and warp the draft format? A planeswalker like Jace, Memory Adept, that can mill 10 cards for zero loyalty and close out a draft game in 2-3 turns shouldn't show up as a rare. We saw in Fate Reforged how Citadel Siege had the same effect at rare and how the draft format was warped around that card.
The problem then became that the Mythic Slot stopped being about draft bombs somewhere down the line and became more about constructed bombs, which lead us to our current problem.
Dream Trawler is a more recent example as a limited bomb that was printed at rare. Having it at rare was good for Standard where the card saw some moderately heavy play for a while, but whenever I hear someone talk about Theros Beyond Death limited they almost always seem to bring up how dumb of a card Dream Trawler is at rare. I'm not exactly sure how you balance the two needs perfectly. Both limited and constructed players have strong arguments as to why Trawler should be Rare/Mythic. I guess one thing you can do is make sure constructed staples and limited bombs are two mutually exclusive categories that never overlap, but that seems rather difficult from a design standpoint.
I know this is from like two years ago, but for some reason TH-cam is dragging it back into my feed - but I'd like to offer another perspective:
The new rarity introduced to the game wasn't "mythic" - that's been there from the start - the _new_ rarity was "rare". Or in more technical terms, what we call "mythic" today is "R1", while "rare" is "R2" - before Alara, "rare" was what we called "R1". What are "R1" and "R2"? The number of times a card is printed on the rare sheet. Since the beginning of the game, a sheet of cards (with rare exception) has been 11x11 (or 10x11), meaning each card on it has a 1/121 chance of showing up in a booster pack. Before Alara, there was only 1 of each Rare (hence R1) on the sheet, which meant each set had 121 unique rares in total - In and since Alara, sets have had like 15 R1 mythics and 53 R2 "rares" (this appears to be slightly different after Ikoria, actually, with a spread of 20-60 or so - but the point stands).
So what was the change in Alara? They went from an _all R1_ system to a mostly R2 system with some R1's. Lotus Cobra in the original Zendikar set was about as rare as a Lion's Eye Diamond from Mirage, both were printed at R1 (though Mirage used an 11x10 sheet apparently). Looking more at some of the numbers for rares in sets though, I think they started doing this a little earlier, but just didn't market it - like Darksteel only has 55 rares, so I suspect it was an 11x10 sheet and they were all R2. Mirrodin though had 88 rares, which means... 12 extra slots on the sheet? Or were there actually 12 R2 cards on the sheet?
In short though, the complaints about the change to "mythic" rarity are ultimately misguided - they didn't make _some_ rares more rare, they made most rares _less_ rare. Like, fetch lands in Zendikar are rares, making them R2. You have a 2/121 chance of pulling a Scalding Tarn. Fetches from Onslaught however, despite having a "rare" set symbol, were printed at R1 (on the smaller sheet) giving you a 1/110 chance of opening a Polluted Delta. The "addition" of "mythic" made fetchlands less rare than they would have been otherwise, and than they already were from Onslaught.
Despite you saying you are a failed teacher I'd say you've taught me much more than any teacher in the us could have taught me.
In terms of magic.
I think
I dropped out of the game at Lorwyn. Mythics have prevented me from coming back. As soon as I read there was a new top rarity I knew I was done buying packs.
@James Black I was already getting tired of dealing with the secondary market and chase rares. That is one of the big things that burned me out. Once I realized the gambling aspect of opening packs was being pushed higher I knew all the good cards would be mythic and everything would be more expensive. They have kept some of the good cards at rare, but I have been following the game the last 2 or 3 years and I can see that all the power and money is in mythic. I always liked opening packs and getting stuff I wanted, secondary market value as a bonus to get what I was really after. Now that is far less likely.
05:42 what makes Magic the best TCG in the world is that it didn't went with the standards of the industry... It defined them, it was the king of all of them and outside of Japan, still is.
It's pretty damn popular in japan too.
The difference between rarity in yugioh and mtg is that in ygo, rarity actually means that cards have different versions of foiling, so it actually makes more o an impact on how the cards actually look and feel, while in mtg the only difference is the colour of a small icon and the secondary market price. They also change rarities a lot, so that popular cards can be obtained in different foil versions if players prefer different ones. Mind you, yugioh has been doing this since the beginning when mtg is only doing this now in commander legends. Also, wotc knows about this, since Pokémon tcg, which is also made by wotc follows a similar pattern as yugioh does.
I don't play anymore but I was playing competitively at the time and I was instantly skeptical about the addition of Mythic Rare. The highest rarity not having the most playable cards sounded too unlikely and it didn't take long for my fears to be confirmed. Almost every planeswalker being Mythic for a time was probably the biggest sign for me that the damage had already been done. First planeswalker with 4 abilities? Mythic.
It was a real shame when it happened and the poor excuse for its inclusion didn't help matters either.
I use cleansing Wildlife in my boros commander deck since it is nice land replacement. It's only a common but it helps alot. It can replace annoying lands such as Tomb of yawgmoth, Dark depths, Gaea's cradle, Cabael coffers, and even Ancient tomb! Since it's not destroying lands permanently, so your opponent will not want to shove a baloth into your face. You can use it on yourself to replace one of your lands if you did not get Correct mana fixing. Mitch told me to do this which I'm thankful for.
Nicely put Vince. I was there for all of this shit. The game used to be loved by the people who made it. I can't imagine trying to make cards with a gun to your head is fun. Try to think about that daily stress that the design team must be under. When I was younger I always wanted to be a mtg designer. I wouldn't wish that on anyone now.
PK: "Could you imagine if WOTC added another rarity slot into the game?"
Masterpieces and random box toppers: "Are we a joke to you?"
Fun fact: Mtggoldfish actually wrote an article around 2013 or 2014 about whether Mythic Rares followed their promises of not just being a checklist of competitive cards. Planeswalkers got a free pass but they looked over every other mythic rare and evaluated if it was a checklist for power. Some cards like Gristlebrand were acceptable mythics but this was when Voice of Resurgence came out. That definitely didn’t “go thud” compared to older mythics
What a trip down memory lane. I actually played heavily and in tournaments all the way up until 2008 when a combination of changes to the game caused me to stop playing competitively and then subsequently sell my collection a few years later.
A. They began printing mythic rares. Above and beyond all the good points you have laid out, its warped every single format in terms of price. in 2007, an expensive standard deck would have been $200. A budget standard deck would have been less than $50. Standard decks skyrocketed to nearly a thousand dollars within the next few years and unsurprisingly have continued to climb exponentially.
B. The printing of planes walkers. As someone that played magic from 1999 to 2007 and loved every minute of it (well other than affinity ravager warping standard for a season and sitting through the hottest trash ever printed (Kamigawa block), I vehemently believe that planes walkers are extremely poorly designed. Those first planes walkers could come down and they immediately generated value via a lessor ability and if they went unanswered would ultimate a few turns later and effectively end the game. I played magic in a time where a UW control player would need to actually cast a creature like Exalted Angel or Eternal Dragon to turn it side ways to end the game. The printed PW's like Jace that could come down (often following a board wipe) and then completely take over a game. Worst case scenario, you play it and get to brainstorm or fate seal before it leaves play. So in contrary to creature design where 80% of the time the creature needs haste or ETB trigger to generate value the turn it comes into play, every planes walker generates value immediately and is a must answer. Worse yet, unlike a creature with haste, the opposing player had the chance to kill it before it can attack, a player casting a planes walker maintains priority following it entering play and can put one of its loyalty abilities on the stack pretty much unabated. Add to this, there was extremely limited removal for planes walkers as very few removal spells up until then purely targeted permanents. Vindicate comes to mind, and that had long since been out of standard and soon to rotate from extended. In fact magic in the years leading up to the printing of planes walkers had moved away from printed permanent based destruction. So a must answer card that generates value the turn it comes down, wins the game if it goes unanswered, and with startlingly few tools printed to deal with it immediately.
C. They changed it to where combat damage no longer used the stack. At the time, this was a massive change and see how the game has come forward this actually ended up being a pretty positive change as combat damage is still relatively complex but without the somewhat counter intuitive stack interactions added to the mix.
I still watch people play on TH-cam because it is fun to watch, but the idea of spending money on cardboard, albeit substandard cardboard at this point, just isn't something I am interested in doing again. Occasionally I will play paper magic with friends, -Commander with lots of proxies. WOTC get's jack shit this way. The local game store sells sleeves, dice, and some basic lands.
Ehh. I miss old magic. It was such a great game. New magic is entertaining, but the economics make zero sense to me as a player.
Shards of Alara was the end of the "big prerelease events" as well. Wizards made it possible for any shop to hold prerelease events and that there wouldn't be a singular event in each state. While this was nicer for the more casual player to hop on down to play a prerelease event and not have to drive 3-5 hours to play a two day event, it made Prerelease in itself a lot less special. I miss those big events where you had 12-20 Sealed Deck tournaments, seemingly endless drafts, and a Main Event plus all the trading/buying between players as people got their playsets of cards they wanted on that special weekend. I remember talking about the new "Mythic rarity" and all of my friends were in agreement that chase cards/Standard staples were likely to be in that slot. Guess we were right.
It strikes me that most (M) creatures should be legendary. Frankly, given legendary is a restriction, it might even help to make things like Doom Whisperer less obviously rate-breaking.
I think your analysis is pretty spot on. When they switched to mythic rares I was just coming back from playing Yu-Gi-Oh and was glad that there wasn't 50 different rarities. Honestly I would prefer that mythic rarity didn't exist because outside of draft it doesn't affect anything positively. All it serves is a barrier to playing standard because you need a playset of the new chase mythic.
Honestly, I wouldn't even say it affects draft in any positive way. It's typically used as an excuse to push a card's power level beyond what it should be and say "By making it mythic it won't show up to ruin draft often", when in reality it'd be far better to actually balance them to make sure they don't ruin limited when they do show up.
Oh jeez I remember having so many discussions with friends on whether we were ok with mythics being added.
Yep!
if you need a play set of a certain mythic you get 1-2 in 6 box making you buy 12 -24 box to get a play set. And since they make certain mythics every tournament player wants a play set of it means it increases their sales.
So what you're saying is that they should add a new hyper rarity called "fetch" rares.
I miss Gatherer comments, it was my favorite social network, used to spend more time there than in Facebook and can't help but feel that disabling comments was a way to low down the players' voices.
WotC has made new rarity’s like yugioh when they made collector boosters with showcase frames and box toppers by making variances of the same cards in a product that is made for standard.
Except that they made it as shameless cash grab aimed at whales, gamblers and compulsive buyers
Another controversy that was fueled by internal mythic "politics" was the Emmara Tandris/Voice of Resurgence switcheroo.
Publically, the justification was that the Elemental ability was "too strong for rare" and that they "couldn't have printed it at Mythic without printing a Planewalker at Rare." Many considered this reasoning inauthentic, and argued that the card was printed at mythic based on it's alleged performance in FFL in order to make it into a Chase card.
Down the line, Planewalkers were printed all the way down to Uncommon, and by the time Double Masters was released, power creep had all but made VOR inconsequential enough to be safe to print at Rare.
To this day, I'm angry that I don't have an Emmara Tandris EDH deck.
Yugioh is complicated Vince, Konami has actually cut down on rarities over the years. They removed ghost rares and ultimate rares from main sets years ago, and now they removed regular “silver” rares from main sets, but introduced and ultra fancy “Starlight Rare” also known as Prismatic Secret Rare but the difference is that Starlights are extra fancy prints of cards that have “regular” Secret, Ultra or Super rares in the same set. AND for your reference, in Japan (the OCG) cards do come in even more rarities inside the same main set BUT you can always get the cheaper, most common rarity for the same card.
For example, you could get a Mythic Oko or a borderless Oko and either of those in foil, so your baseline rarity is Mythic but in japanese yugioh you can get a chase card in Super as its baseline rarity (which is like 10 or more per box, adjusting for pack quantity) or get it in Secret or Ultimate or Prismatic, which are much rare but who cares, the super is 5 bux or less, same with the base Ultra that also comes in Holographic, Prismatic, Ultimate AND Secret.
Also Yugioh has an expected reprint rate of 6 to 18 months, literally every and any chase card will get reprinted on that time frame and prices usually plummet in half at the very least but usually $70 chase secrets from last year today cost $2 after one or two reprints and yes, they will even reprint cards twice in a single year. So you ONLY pay the premium full price for playing the best deck of the latest set for the first 6 months, and last year decks are still playable sometimes going for much much less, and how yugioh doesn’t rotate (outside of the massive, regular banlist) there’s almost always a cheaper budget option for the best and strongest staples so you never quite need to pay the $100 for the lightning storm when you can get a $20 evenly matched or a $1 raigeki, depending on what your deck needs.
Also rarities are 100% aesthetic and actual pull rates are not fixed among products. Main sets today only have commons, super, ultra and secret rares as baseline rarities, which comes up pretty close to common, uncommon, rare and mythic but other boxes will only have super and secret rares, and on those boxes it’s more like a box with 5 commons and 1 rare for the spread of rarities. other boxes will only have regular “silver” rares and ultras, while some _only have ultras_, some products will have instead of 5 commons and 1 foil (super, ultra or secret) will have packs with 3 commons, 1 super, 1 ultra AND 1 secret, and that’s why the rarities in yugioh are mostly foiling mean nothing unless you know what kind of product it came from.
by example, reprint sets will upgrade the rarity of say commons and silver rares just to give you a foil print of a really cheap card and prices will be pennies still regardless if its a super rare or a common. and there’s also a bunch of promotional rarities that don’t matter at all like gold rares, platinum rare, starfoil and shit that only come out in specific products every once in a while.
For us yugioh players rarity is just a thing of availability and cosmetic preference, $100 secret rares from two years ago will come as assured commons in a preconstructed product and sell for $6, while still holding $60+ for that original much shinier print, but we will also get a super or ultra print in a reprint set that costs $9 or such for everyone that still wants a shiny but less shinier print. I personally like to have all my decks in foil, but that doesn’t mean it’s max rarity and overpriced, there’s a bunch of extremely garbage cards that cost literally 5 cents or so and were only printed as secret rares on whichever off set product and that’s fine.
on the other hand my commander deck is thousands with the most cheap prints possible, and foiling it would make it cost like 10 times more???
In ygo resently, there was a very interesting case of this. Duel Devastator (Product shortname DUDE, lol). It was a product filled with stamples for players, it was great. 30$ MSRP, great value, a lot of Staples, but every card in it was ensured, there was no gamble. The only little gamble In it was getting 1 of the four field centers, but nobody cares about that.
Thing is, the product didn't sell all that well. It's great for new ans budget players, but most players have some if not most of the useful cards inside. At least that's what I think, but many sellers and market men in the business say that there was no gamble, and that made it way less exciting to rip open. The gamble sells cardboard.
Dear PK, Goyf was a Mythic before Mythic rares existed. In Future Sight, the future shifted cards appeared at a different rarity. You would mostly get commons and sometimes uncommons and, very close to the rate of Mythics, about 1 in 8 packs got a future shifted rare.
That block was more than nostalgia, it was also a testing ground for mythic rares and distribution. Time Spiral, and Planar Chaos did this as well with the time shifted/plane shifted rares showing up at a rate similar to mytics today.
As someone who played before mythics and took a break from shadowmoor till khans mythics piss me off. We already had an effective 6 rares due to foils. Adding 2 rarities(mythic and mythic foil) was just a bad idea in my eyes.
Mark is totally right though. I stopped playing around Portal and only came back to the game when I I found out that they had introduced a new rarity. Didn't have anything to do with Arena making the game more accessible or all the advertising around War of the Spark. Those were all meh, it was that oh so fancy Mythic rarity that really drew me in.
Holy crap, those Yugioh rarities are nuts!😲
Can you explain to me why orange is more rare than gold?
Omg, I just made comments on Secret Lair videos a week ago bringing up mythic rarity history. I basically said people need to put this in perspective. Cool to finally see a content creator taking perspective instead of solely hopping on the secret lair hype train as the one thing killing magic...
Remember when MaRo straight-up said the reason Imperial Recruiter was reprinted at mythic was for scarcity? Because I do.
Or when he said that good lands being printed as rare has actually nothing to do with limited but just because they sell packs.
What they don't point out with Yugioh with all these rarities, is that things like ghost rare and ultimate rare are just higher rarity versions of cards within the same set they're printed in (until ulti and ghost "discontinuing"). And the easiest straight forward example is the current showcase boarders. Jace TMS (WWK) is your secret rare, in the same set you could pull the double masters full art being the ultimate rare and then, still in the same set you could pull the mythic edition as the Ghost rare. All 3 rarities of the card contained within the same set, a pull rate percentile apart (do your research for the exact rarity average, it has changed over the years), doesn't seem so over the top does it? One can argue this actually increases your chances of pulling the card within "that slot" of your pack.
YuGiOh is also a Japanese card game in conception and nature. The Japanese like lots of rarities that just go one step over each other. If you just look at games like Vanguard, Duel Masters, Modern era Pokémon, you can see this is apparent. YuGiOh as well has a different design ethic between OCG (Asian territories) and TCG (Non Asian territories). In OCG, format staples and cards for deck archetypes are largely lower rarity so that they're accessible to everyone (this is more easily discernible in the more modern sets, DUEA up is an easy benchmark), then release products that have two purposes, reprint and rarity bump. Where as in the TCG for the most part things are high rarity from the get go for archetypes and staples are almost guaranteed to be in the Secret rare slot (currently the "highest" rarity) in main and supplemental booster sets.
It doesn't fit the narrative, for one. Yugioh bad, Magic good, laugh at people that play a different game and aren't completely beholden to WotC. Second, it's easy to be ignorant and just say things after 5 minutes of research. Which is Konami's fault for making this confusing for a pure layman.
"i DoNT gEt iT, iT bAD!"
I am what some may call an relativly OG player as I played during the early days of Magic. I quit after 8th edition came out and the redesign of the cards plus massive rule changes happened. I didn't buy new cards or anything. Last year I got back into magic because of the commander format. There was so many new things I had to learn, like no mana burn, new end of combat phase, planeswalkers, equipment, artifacts don't have summoning sickness, new abilities, mythics, and much more. I remember back in the day magic was simple and combo decks were far rarer, now that seems to be all there is. Back in the day buying and selling cards individually wasn't common, while trading was. Now people just sell and buy cards and trading is rare. People that didn't play tournament didn't care about ban lists and which set you used. Now with all these modes, and by the way standard is standard as you can't use any card ever outside ban list, people don't like it if you don't adhere to the rules and ban list. Casual just feels like tournament lite. I just made a deck I thought was cool outta cards I had and played. 40 to 60 card decks and 4 of any given card, simple.
Limited also makes the situation more complicated. A lot of draft players would have much preferred Dream Trawler be a mythic (in Theros Beyond Death) since that card is so game warping in that format, but then that would hurt constructed players where the card saw some moderately heavy play as a control finisher in Standard (at least for a while, IDK if it does anymore). How do you navigate situations like this where a card is going to be a reasonable staple in constructed but absolutely bonkers and unfun in limited where there is less flexibility to answer bombs?
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Thanks, I only remember a time with Mythical rares in Zendikar after Shards of Alara block.
I remember back in Zendikar days Jund was the best deck around and Maelstrom pulse (which wasn't even a mythic) was a $35 card. Everyone complained it was unsustainable and standard decks were starting to cost too much money feels like it was an eternity ago.
I'd say, Vince, that you might be the second best promoter of Nord VPN in the TH-cam country.
The best is Internet Historian right?
@@tehguy0 Most definitely!
To be fair about the Yugioh rarities, at the time, Ultimate and Ghost rares were upgraded rarities of certain cards in the set. Basically they’re for collectors or people who want to bling out their deck. Main sets only had common, rare, super, and ultra as the standard rarities. Secret rare was dropped and then brought back, and I think it was back in sets in 2008. Nowadays, rare has been dropped from main sets and ghost and ultimate rare are relegated to tournament packs and side sets. Main sets have starlight rare as a collector tier rarity and it’s just an upgraded rarity. Just thought I’d mention it to clear that up.
One of the guys at my LGS qualified for a PTQ back when Shadows over Innistrad released, and the PTQ was SOI sealed. We did a small sealed event at our LGS to help him practice but it didn't do him any good as his sealed pool at the PTQ was garbage. He said 7 of the 8 people at the top 8 were carried there by opening an Archangel Avacyn in their pool. And three of them also had the oomph of Sigarda, Heron's grace powering their deck as well. Yaaay for pushed mythics.......not.
TCG's are not considered gambling in most countries due to a loophole.
To make a product considered as a gamble it needs to involve a chance to win either A: Money or B: luxury items as prices (thinks for example cars) with the chance to get nothing out of your purchase. Cards, in of themselves, aren worth anything, and collector market prices do not affect this.
It's the same legal loophole that stuff like lootboxes and the like also used, and which is also part of Japans gambling scene, because places like Pachinko parlor have found a way around the ban of gambling in the country by using the same loophole for example.
Oh man speaking of rarities screwing with limited, my first ever GP was Aether Revolt sealed and I remember I lost to a borderline constructed abzan counters deck with three on-color mythics in it (Ajani, the green Gearhulk and the black gearhulk) as well as two snakes and a ballista... I really wanted to call a judge on him to have him verify his pool, but since it was my first large event I didn’t have the confidence to do so.
When they announced Mythics, hot on the heels of Planeswalkers, I actually quit the game for some time. The last pre-release I attended was Eventide. I stayed away up until Kaladesh, when I discovered Tolarian Community College videos, thought the flavor of the plane seemed neat and Energy was an interesting resource management addition, and jumped back in, went to a pre-release, having completely forgotten what had lead to me burning out and quitting. I really regret falling back into this game now, given how much worse WotC continues to treat its players (I don't enjoy or play EDH, so there has been no relief this year). I don't see it ever getting better for us customers.
One thing I'll say about those yugioh rarities, is that some (starfoil and mosaic) are basically Commons for special sets, and stuff like starlight, ghost and ultimate rates are designed to be collectibles. No cards are made with a plan to just be an ulti
Gotta say my least favorite rarity gotta be Secret Rare, a few years ago they printed some exclusive cards there and now I just avoid the rarity in its entirety
Going off of Yu'Gi-Oh's rarities, MtG has a rather ridiculous amount then.
The standard Common/Uncommon/Rare/Mythic (plus Basic Land, but that was already being discounted)
Standard foil (theoretically making that four/five more rarities)
From the Vault Foil
Etched Foil
Gold Etched Foil (Secret Lair: MSCHF)
Silverscreen Foil (Innistrad: Double Feature)
Neon Ink Foil (Kamigawa: Neon Dynasty)
Gilded Foil (Streets of New Capenna)
Textured Foil (Double Masters)
Galaxy Foil (Unfinity)
Surge Foil (Warhammer 40k)
Double-rainbow Foil (Brothers' War Serialized artifacts)
Step-and-compleat Foil (Phyrexia: All Will Be One)
Oil Slick Raised Foil (Phyrexia: All Will Be One)
This is discounting Borderless, Extended Art, Textless, Masterpiece, Invention, Invocation, Mystical Archive, Showcase, Planeshifted, and/or Futureshifted as not being their own rarity
You know it's bad when you have to dive in a wiki to find all this lol
Getting back into Magic after a decade away, really enjoying your videos. You have a wonderfully irreverent style that makes even your product promotions entertaining to watch. Great stuff, pleade keep it up 👍
funny actually how they got "draft bombs that dont affect constructed" perfectly right with conspiracy. theres mythic rare conspiracy cards (in the draft-matters slot) that do nothing in constructed- shame they couldnt do that elsewhere
I think the initial outrage wasn't as big as it should have been because Alara was pretty careful with mythics overall. If the change to mythic happened with Zendikar ppl would have been a lot more pissed about it.
I remember disliking it, my reason was "what's the fucking point?" but not caring all too much back then. I still was a child after all and was just playing casually with my friends. The realization came later when they reprinted the OG planeswalkers the first time - now at mythic. I pulled Ajani from a Lorwyn booster at rare, this was the only planeswalker I had for a very long time outside of the ones that came in duel decks (which were great). This is also a reason why my friends and I loved War of the Spark so much because it once again had planeswalkers at rarities below mythic for the first time since Lorwyn so we actually got to play with them which was exciting.
Regardless of how messed up Mirrodin block was, putting cards like Skullclamp and Aether Vial at uncommon as cards that potentially would see a lot of play was really nice. Or think about cards like Force of Will, Ancient Tomb or Demonic Tutor, those cards also are uncommons because they are cards that you should have access to in order to build strong decks.
Nowadays decks are usually filled with rares and mythics and decks cost a shitton of money...
I was someone who left when Alara arrived, albeit for different reasons. Having recently come back for some casual Arena games (and shaken my head at some of the cards printed while I was away) I think the most egregious example of "shouldn't be mythic" recently was Brazen Borrowers... nothing splashy, just loads of value so it is a required card.
The change from the long established precedent of 15 mythics per set to 20 in ZNR is a big deal for card (in)accessibility. I'm kinda surprised people aren't more upset about that.
5 of the Mythics are more common than rares - the cycle of the flip cards
You're wrong though. 5 of the mythics appear in their own slot, so they don't affect the other 15. In fact, mythics now appear 1 in every 7.4 boosters instead of 1 every 8 boosters.
@@fernandobanda5734
Congrats, you got bamboozled by Hasbro marketing. An 8% increase in Mythic frequency doesn't compensate for a 33% increase in the number of mythics. You would need a mythic in every 6 packs to keep the frequency of each individual mythic the same as before.
@@oliverwilson11 Thanks for not reading what I had to say at all. The 5 additional mythical are in another slot in the booster pack.
@@fernandobanda5734
lol you got bamboozled hard. It doesn't matter if you create a new "slot" or whatever, you can't fit 20 mythics into 16 mythics' worth of space without making them less frequent.
Not only are there mythics, we had "ultra-mythics" "masterpiece" cards with Zendikar expeditions, Amonkhet invocations (that also looked like dogshit), Kaladesh inventions etc.
I think every set they are now pushing extra rare variants of regular cards or reprints of old cards that look like ass and not even like a magic card at all. It's not just full arts, that would actually be fine by me, if it's not a textless cryptic command, but tons of weird stuff that honestly hinder immediate, fast readability and therefore playability of the cards. They already have enough stupid design decisions that are a headache to read like aftermath from Amonkhet and now sagas. Aftermath was just a mess that could have been just been in the textbox like flashback, but instead we got tiny and crowded pictures of text, half of which is sideways. And sagas are like vertical phone videos and newspaper columns thrown together. It's like magic frame designers not only never went to design or art school, but they also have no natural sense of the topic at all and snorted a bunch of whatever before they came up with this stuff.
So when they reprint really sought after cards, or print their new busted cards, they either reprint them at this mythic or ultra mythic rarity, or as part of the box topper or other promo stuff, or in collector boosters or in over priced horizon or masters sets etc. etc.
Because help us god if magic becomes actually more affordable again, how is wizards going to make even more money?
People used be able to collect all the cards in the set, by just buying a box and trading, but now there are so many weird products like commander sets and masters and horizons and collector boosters and promos and secret lairs(which fuck over the LGS because they can only be bought directly from wizards)... I get the appeal in variety, but wizards just has lost the fucking plot. about 5 years ago.
From an availability standpoint there are no rarities in MTG, just costs. If you play at more than the fun level you'll just buy the singles from on of the many outlets available worldwide.
From a play perspective, the rarity system only really effects draft and sealed.
So it is to my knowledge only, but I was under the impression that mythic rares always existed even if they weren't differently labeled. I think they misjudged the damage that mythic rarity did, because thats roughly when i remember going from cracking packs and trading to buying and selling cards for absolute value reference.
I always thought constructed should exist generally above the commons level.
Uncommons should be staples that can float between decks easily, but remain useful and playable. Sprite Dragon, Veil, and many new Doom Blade variants worked out this way. I think the game needs a lot more of these to remain accessible. While Delver is a common and the bane of eternal formats, it is also genuinely a good thing that one of the more impactful (non-land) cards in the game is a 1-mana common (but also blue. Because you know, Blue doesnt get much else).
Rares should be half a step stronger but narrow in some way. Cobra is a stronger card than a mana dork, but conditional on land drops suiting your curve in a meaningful way. Yeah it's a bit undercut by the fact that you want to be doing that anyway. But still.
Mythics used to be the kind of card that needed your deck to have helper cards for them to be meaningful. Mirror mad phantasm has some really interesting potential, but you arent just jamming it into every pile.
You could say "the list" in set boosters is also a new rarity
What’s that
I was so confused when I pulled a garruk wildspeaker for the first time in m10, both by what the card was and why the rare symbol was the wrong color.
There was actually a fifth rarity (sixth counting basic lands) way back when. It was between rare and mythic, and had a purple set symbol.
This latest Zendikar set upped the mythic slot to 20 from the usual 16...felt like that went under the radar.
Zendikar was 2009, scars 2010, innestrad 2011, lotus cobra released 2009
As someone who got into Magic after briefly dabbling with Yu-Gi-Oh while in school I found it really refreshing that Magic did not have that gaudy, superlative-laden myriad of rarities. So I really liked the three rarities. I can live with mythic though I wasn't excited when they introduced it. Better then the maze of special treatments now - extremely confusing and creating another system of rarities through the backdoor.
Correct me if I'm wrong but rares were never printed at the same rate as each other. There were always cards that would show up on a sheet less than other rares and the change to the naming scheme and color markings were just to help make the consumer aware of the general rarity of a card (to boost the gambling aspect cause cracking packs is all about getting that sweet come up).
I didnt find any official acknowledgement of this.
Ah, Baneslayer. If nothing else back in the day (around Zendikar standard, maybe also Worldwake/RoE) it was a pretty good sideboard card against monored aggro. They typically didn't have many/any spells that could efficiently deal with it, couldn't attack into it, and meant that you'd probably win a race due to the 10 point swings every time it attack.
But yeah, things have power crept so much in the past decade that it just can't do that anymore. It's not even that red can deal with it well, but rather that aggro decks are even faster that you can't rely on a 5 mana sideboard card to stabilize you anymore.
can you do a video about the size of sets starting to grow again? When they cut from over 300 card sets to 249ish card large sets and two small sets, it was to trim the chaff from standard. Now we get four large standard sets a year and they are getting BIG... plus there are the reprint sets with Double Masters as the signpost for wizards moving to high variance non standard sets with a LOT of rares and mythics...
The one explanation i heard that i thought made sense was "as you go up the rarity scale cards will get more complicated, mythic is just a way to make it so super complicated rares arent constantly opened" which I can buy seeing that the last 3 blocks were time spiral, lorwyn and shadowmoor (3 of the most complex blocks imo)
good and interesting piece. from earlier on (Legends) I would make sure I had a complete play set of every card in every set. I would buy sufficient boxes to do this. I would end up with so many commons that I would throw them away, so I shifted to buying complete sets instead. This proved cheaper. When Mythics came out, the cost of doing this doubled and even tripled over time. It became cost prohibitive and I quit buying sets with mythics, and eventual got out of the game except for buying preconstructed decks. Mythics drove me from the game. I have only recently jumped back in, but mostly playing arena which in one year costs less than half of a complete play set including mythics used to cost for one set. On a different topic, but the same, the design and creative and production process is handled in one part of the business. The part of the business that focuses on sales would be the marketing department. It is not like this is a "on high" department relative to the production of the game, it is in fact a peer. It is a business and it is their job to earn profits. I agree with your points. Acting to get short term gains may create long term vulnerabilities for the brand. Like you, I could go on and on about these issues. I can only hope that they understand the delicate balances in the process.
Just to clarify for PleasentKenobi and those who do not know yugioh, the way that rarities work in yugioh is different from the way they work in magic, in magic, when we talk about an isolated product like zendikar rising for example, a card will only exist in one rarity in that product (if the card is rare, it is only rare, you will not open a mythical version of a card that is rare inside a booster of the same product for example), in yugioh it is different, from common to ultra rare the cards are unique , but when we talk about ghost rare, ultimate rare, etc. They are just alternative versions of cards of the same product, so an ultimate rare card for example, it is not a card that exists only in this rarity, you can gain it as an ultra rare in the same product, the best comparison is that these other rarities are like the special treatments that started with the masterpieces, and there also rarities that apears only in special products (and they have the same role to be only alternate treatments of cards that you can gain in different rarities, but exceptions exist), the same way that the new foil tratement that will be introduced in commander legends will probably be a exclusive thing to that product
for example, also, im brazilian, so my english is not the best
Your editing style is so good man. Super funny. You might be the best ‘content creator as artist.’ Not enough creators are ripping your ideas off!
On the topic of predatory tactics: Is the gambling aspect of pack opening more or less harmful to the community than the selling of limited releases?
I'm done with standard. Decided today, been deciding for a few months. I can't afford to drop usd on cardboard in my chosen colours and then find they weren't designed to be tier1 and therefore I can't get anywhere with them. I hate playing meta decks, and those are all pre-constructed nowadays. Screw magic, I'm done.
Sorry but if you're first choosing colors instead of evaluating the cards, I don't know how you expect to combat tier 1 decks. I agree that some current stuff is very powerful, but even in a healthy meta there's going to be a few good decks. You can choose not to play those but you'll be at a disadvantage.
I never really cared for the introduction of Mythic. What I did like was the purple Special rarity for Time Shifted cards. Personally I wish the expeditions were that Special rarity cause really they were shifting cards from the past into the set in question. No need for a special symbol, as it would then just be part of the set. And I realize they did the other set symbol because they didn't want people to think it was part of the set and thus legal in standard but I just feel it would have been nice to have the purple Special rarity mean it is a card shifted into the present from the past.
I also feel that reprint sets should just always watermark the cards with their original printing like they did with Masters 25, so maybe I shouldn't be in charge of card graphic design. But I mean how cool would it be to have Chronicles printed in black boarder with the set symbols as a watermark and the glob set symbol of Chronicles between the art and textbox.