Another movie and another which I watch a few times on a day :). Dave helped me (online) set up my suspension in Suzuki GSX 1400 which is not a popular bike in his country. From this time I'm a huge fan. Watching this movies give us a a lot of important informations that many of riders didn't know... Someone like him is gold person for motorcyclists - every time great job. Greets from Poland for you guys !
Been learning as much as possible. The crummy part about being in Canada is we never get to meet greate people like you. Going to try to adjust my 2009 zx14 this weekend. it is way to stiff.
Coming from ZX12R (200/50 rear) and tire pressures 36/40 on warm day with new tires. You offered the same pressure to front and rear 40/40 for the ZX14R. This to me sounds alien. Am I missing something? My first instinct would be 37/41 on the ZX14 that has little more weight maybe. I'm booted with Metzeler M9 RR 200/55 rear that is 30 mm taller tire to stock 190/50. Also the wheelbase is reduced by 8mm having 1 tooth bigger rear sprocket (Gen 1 stock 41, Gen 2 stock 42) making this Gen 1 bike 28mm shorter wheelbase than Gen 2 (118 links chain) wheelbase with 2 links shorter chain (116 links chain Gen 1 stock chain). 116 links just has enough adjustment for 42 tooth rear sprocket. The 200/55 rear also lifts the rear by 15mm to compensate the shorter wheelbase and all these changes the caster fair bit for more nibble steering. Bike has Wilbers 641 shock with +-5mm height adjustment and progressive front springs with both valves upgraded. Rider weight 90kg.
Depends on the carcass and if it is soft or hard as that is critical to suggestions, as is use and rider skill level. Reduced wheelbase means more agility and less weight on the rear wheel. Larger rear tyre reduces weight on the rear and more weight on the front. In theory, sag needs to be in the 40-50mm range and compression set softer to transfer the balance of the bike rearward or reduce shock height by 4mm and leave settings the same.
@@catalystreactionsbw Different tires have different construction. For example ZX9R I had I loved Pirelli Dragon. Got my new ZX12R back at the day and it seemed I couldn't find a comfortable zone with these tires. Maybe it was the different tire size. After trying few different tire brands I ended with Metzelers that seemed to suit the best for this bike. After that I have only used Metzeler tires. But to be brutally totally honest I have never touched the suspension. 2000 model and it still has the showroom settings and has been sitting last 7 years in the garage waiting for total rebuild. After 22 years I still have the ZX12R. +40k and maybe 60% of the original brakes still left on it. ZX9R 60k and it still had half the pads left. Gives you some idea of my riding style. Yet I keep up with CBR's and R1's alike on twisties with big fat ZX12R. And having a light rear you can put down so much more power on the apex compared to others and keep the front down. Lot of engine braking and I use the rear brake fair bit to load the front. So much actually that I wear 3-4 sets of pads and few discs and have plenty still left on the front. And yes this is something how I learned to ride. My first real bike was FZ750 -84 and that bike had deadly brakes. Emergency situation you pulled hard ... nothing ... you pulled little more ... nothing ... and finally the last tiny bit and they locked up and I lost the bike twice. So I got paranoid about brakes even that all the later model bikes I had had fantastic feel to them. I learned to ride without brakes and I can't say how many times someone has told me how annoyed they are following and never seeing a brake light. Sure I know how to use brakes but I always try to minimize the use. Back to suspension. Reason I'm too scared to touch the suspension and don't really have the confidence just in case I stuff up something and can't get it back to where it was. Yes reduced wheelbase makes the steering little faster and lighter maybe. Rear I usually have liked light because it seems to keep the front more planted and acceleration it reduces wheelies. I don't know if it is right or wrong thinking that if I lose traction from the rear little easier and that is maybe easier to correct than losing the front. I have to say I don't ride on track so I never take it to the limit ... not often anyway and getting too old for it also. Tire pressure often for me goes up when the tire gets older. Commuting often wears a flat area on the middle and adding little more pressure seems to aid the roll a bit bringing back little more shape to the tire. Yes I have that 5mm to play on the shock if the 15mm lift with the tire is too much but I need to decide this first because the adjustment is fixed and to change the adjustment you need to undo the shock from one end to change the length. Watching some of your tutorials from different bikes I got the picture that rear is bit less sag compared to the front. 30-35mm rear and 35-40mm front. From your advice I get the mental picture of dropping the rear by 4mm and looking for a sag of 35-40mm. Front would be 45mm that is middle of your recommendation. Not sure why you have more sag than your recommended values in average. My guess is you took the progressive front springs in to a count and upgraded suspension in general. Thanks Dave for the advice. Setup has always been my Achilles' heel. I kind of know what sag is and have some kind of idea and feel about it but I get lost in compression and other adjustments that I just can't get my head around. Lot of variables and all are linked and connected in some way even that in general I'm pretty good in physics knowing all the values change if you change one angle for example. Please if I missed something or misunderstood let me know. Thanks Dave.
@@paulboyce8537 As the tyre ages you add air - perfect response :) Also note with age the contact patch gets bigger so you get more heat. I love to ride on the road with engine braking via downshifting for the feeling of flow but I am at the back of the pack on the road - a long way back. You are correct regarding the increase in sag with progressive springs but monitoring travel used is the critical data point for forks and rear shock so start there to see if you are bottoming out or the setting is actually too stiff. The only factor here that could help you is getting the chassis balanced with rebound.
@@catalystreactionsbw Thanks for your help Dave. I'll start from here and see how I go. Well on road in a group ride I'm often just behind the leader or I stop and wait till the "Tail End Charlie" gets to the turnoff and catch up to the leader again. That I think is good fun as long as you do it safely. But it also depends how I feel on the bike that day. Sometimes all seem to click together and sometimes I'm off or the bike just is missing something. Then I'm at the back also. Sad thing is that today there are coppers everywhere and riding is not as free as it used to be.
That added a little height to the rear of the bike, so you moved the balance point slightly forward - hence the change in geometry that made a positive difference.
55 dramatically changes the balance. I have a 55 profile on the back and a protruding front on the shelves by 1.5 mm - trial and error method. Everything ok on Pirelli Angel but when I changed to Michelin Pilot Road 4 for damn I can not find myself, very strange in a corner, understeer turns into oversteer, I do not like Kawasaki with these tires.
Engineer Trucker I found the 14R in particular to be quite tyre sensitive, I ran Metzler M5’s for the most part because they had a pretty stiff carcass for a heavy bike with a heavy rider and were pretty good as an all around tyre for longevity versus stick ability in more spirited riding. On my first gen ZX14 I had heavier racetech fork springs appropriate valving and ohlins oil along with a Ohlins shock etc etc, I had been given a set of Bridgestone (soft carcass) ex race rubber to try (it was supposed to be for doing a track day) and Dave had recently tweeked the settings on the bike and holly hell, sublime doesn’t even begin to describe the way that bike rode and unfortunately spoiled me for all other tyres 😂
Hi Dave, I just picked up a 2018 zx14r with ohlins. I'm 200lb with gear on. I believe the stock suspension is for 150lbs no gear. Any idea on setup for me? I mostly ride highway and a little but of twistys but not much. Cheers from Australia!
Put a cable tie on the front fork tube right side and a tiny bit of grease on the shock shaft. Assess how much travel you use on your roads at your speeds. That gives you direction for preload if you need more or less. Then you can set compression at 50% of the total range and ride again. That will optimize travel.
Another movie and another which I watch a few times on a day :). Dave helped me (online) set up my suspension in Suzuki GSX 1400 which is not a popular bike in his country. From this time I'm a huge fan. Watching this movies give us a a lot of important informations that many of riders didn't know... Someone like him is gold person for motorcyclists - every time great job. Greets from Poland for you guys !
Man that ZX14 looks AWESOME. Would love to take it for a rip.
Been learning as much as possible. The crummy part about being in Canada is we never get to meet greate people like you. Going to try to adjust my 2009 zx14 this weekend. it is way to stiff.
I have traveled to Canada several times - people like yourself get a group together and I fly out once we confirm a date and numbers/budget. Thoughts?
Beautiful bike
Coming from ZX12R (200/50 rear) and tire pressures 36/40 on warm day with new tires. You offered the same pressure to front and rear 40/40 for the ZX14R. This to me sounds alien. Am I missing something? My first instinct would be 37/41 on the ZX14 that has little more weight maybe. I'm booted with Metzeler M9 RR 200/55 rear that is 30 mm taller tire to stock 190/50. Also the wheelbase is reduced by 8mm having 1 tooth bigger rear sprocket (Gen 1 stock 41, Gen 2 stock 42) making this Gen 1 bike 28mm shorter wheelbase than Gen 2 (118 links chain) wheelbase with 2 links shorter chain (116 links chain Gen 1 stock chain). 116 links just has enough adjustment for 42 tooth rear sprocket. The 200/55 rear also lifts the rear by 15mm to compensate the shorter wheelbase and all these changes the caster fair bit for more nibble steering. Bike has Wilbers 641 shock with +-5mm height adjustment and progressive front springs with both valves upgraded. Rider weight 90kg.
Depends on the carcass and if it is soft or hard as that is critical to suggestions, as is use and rider skill level. Reduced wheelbase means more agility and less weight on the rear wheel. Larger rear tyre reduces weight on the rear and more weight on the front. In theory, sag needs to be in the 40-50mm range and compression set softer to transfer the balance of the bike rearward or reduce shock height by 4mm and leave settings the same.
@@catalystreactionsbw Different tires have different construction. For example ZX9R I had I loved Pirelli Dragon. Got my new ZX12R back at the day and it seemed I couldn't find a comfortable zone with these tires. Maybe it was the different tire size. After trying few different tire brands I ended with Metzelers that seemed to suit the best for this bike. After that I have only used Metzeler tires. But to be brutally totally honest I have never touched the suspension. 2000 model and it still has the showroom settings and has been sitting last 7 years in the garage waiting for total rebuild. After 22 years I still have the ZX12R. +40k and maybe 60% of the original brakes still left on it. ZX9R 60k and it still had half the pads left. Gives you some idea of my riding style. Yet I keep up with CBR's and R1's alike on twisties with big fat ZX12R. And having a light rear you can put down so much more power on the apex compared to others and keep the front down. Lot of engine braking and I use the rear brake fair bit to load the front. So much actually that I wear 3-4 sets of pads and few discs and have plenty still left on the front. And yes this is something how I learned to ride. My first real bike was FZ750 -84 and that bike had deadly brakes. Emergency situation you pulled hard ... nothing ... you pulled little more ... nothing ... and finally the last tiny bit and they locked up and I lost the bike twice. So I got paranoid about brakes even that all the later model bikes I had had fantastic feel to them. I learned to ride without brakes and I can't say how many times someone has told me how annoyed they are following and never seeing a brake light. Sure I know how to use brakes but I always try to minimize the use. Back to suspension. Reason I'm too scared to touch the suspension and don't really have the confidence just in case I stuff up something and can't get it back to where it was. Yes reduced wheelbase makes the steering little faster and lighter maybe. Rear I usually have liked light because it seems to keep the front more planted and acceleration it reduces wheelies. I don't know if it is right or wrong thinking that if I lose traction from the rear little easier and that is maybe easier to correct than losing the front. I have to say I don't ride on track so I never take it to the limit ... not often anyway and getting too old for it also. Tire pressure often for me goes up when the tire gets older. Commuting often wears a flat area on the middle and adding little more pressure seems to aid the roll a bit bringing back little more shape to the tire. Yes I have that 5mm to play on the shock if the 15mm lift with the tire is too much but I need to decide this first because the adjustment is fixed and to change the adjustment you need to undo the shock from one end to change the length. Watching some of your tutorials from different bikes I got the picture that rear is bit less sag compared to the front. 30-35mm rear and 35-40mm front. From your advice I get the mental picture of dropping the rear by 4mm and looking for a sag of 35-40mm. Front would be 45mm that is middle of your recommendation. Not sure why you have more sag than your recommended values in average. My guess is you took the progressive front springs in to a count and upgraded suspension in general. Thanks Dave for the advice. Setup has always been my Achilles' heel. I kind of know what sag is and have some kind of idea and feel about it but I get lost in compression and other adjustments that I just can't get my head around. Lot of variables and all are linked and connected in some way even that in general I'm pretty good in physics knowing all the values change if you change one angle for example. Please if I missed something or misunderstood let me know. Thanks Dave.
@@paulboyce8537 As the tyre ages you add air - perfect response :) Also note with age the contact patch gets bigger so you get more heat. I love to ride on the road with engine braking via downshifting for the feeling of flow but I am at the back of the pack on the road - a long way back. You are correct regarding the increase in sag with progressive springs but monitoring travel used is the critical data point for forks and rear shock so start there to see if you are bottoming out or the setting is actually too stiff. The only factor here that could help you is getting the chassis balanced with rebound.
@@catalystreactionsbw Thanks for your help Dave. I'll start from here and see how I go. Well on road in a group ride I'm often just behind the leader or I stop and wait till the "Tail End Charlie" gets to the turnoff and catch up to the leader again. That I think is good fun as long as you do it safely. But it also depends how I feel on the bike that day. Sometimes all seem to click together and sometimes I'm off or the bike just is missing something. Then I'm at the back also. Sad thing is that today there are coppers everywhere and riding is not as free as it used to be.
Dave got my 14 and then 14R cornering beautiful, put a 55 series rear tyre on it though
That added a little height to the rear of the bike, so you moved the balance point slightly forward - hence the change in geometry that made a positive difference.
55 dramatically changes the balance. I have a 55 profile on the back and a protruding front on the shelves by 1.5 mm - trial and error method. Everything ok on Pirelli Angel but when I changed to Michelin Pilot Road 4 for damn I can not find myself, very strange in a corner, understeer turns into oversteer, I do not like Kawasaki with these tires.
Engineer Trucker I found the 14R in particular to be quite tyre sensitive, I ran Metzler M5’s for the most part because they had a pretty stiff carcass for a heavy bike with a heavy rider and were pretty good as an all around tyre for longevity versus stick ability in more spirited riding. On my first gen ZX14 I had heavier racetech fork springs appropriate valving and ohlins oil along with a Ohlins shock etc etc, I had been given a set of Bridgestone (soft carcass) ex race rubber to try (it was supposed to be for doing a track day) and Dave had recently tweeked the settings on the bike and holly hell, sublime doesn’t even begin to describe the way that bike rode and unfortunately spoiled me for all other tyres 😂
Thanks again for post Your .........."Vangelo" of suspensions....... :)
Hi Dave, I just picked up a 2018 zx14r with ohlins. I'm 200lb with gear on. I believe the stock suspension is for 150lbs no gear. Any idea on setup for me? I mostly ride highway and a little but of twistys but not much.
Cheers from Australia!
Put a cable tie on the front fork tube right side and a tiny bit of grease on the shock shaft. Assess how much travel you use on your roads at your speeds. That gives you direction for preload if you need more or less. Then you can set compression at 50% of the total range and ride again. That will optimize travel.
@@catalystreactionsbw wow thanks for replying so fast Dave. Greatly appreciated
I ride a 2015 zx14r, did you bring his rebound in 7 clicks to stock??
6 clicks from maximum
Aplomb 😂