...actually this would be the one time where such a sponsorship would actually work usually the NordVPN sponsorships go like "to avoid hackers, let all your traffic go through this random third party that's totally trustworthy, honest!" forgetting that stuff like TLS/SSL and HTTPS exist EDIT: to summarize NordVPN advertise themselves usually through misinformation, but sockpuppeting would actually be a valid use of their product... wait... that's not a good thing...
I'd make a "the real msscribe were the friends we made along the way" joke, but then i thought about it more, and odds are that the friends we made along the way WERE msscribe
The fact that someone did an extensive false flag campaign in order to infiltrate a Harry Potter fanfic moderators circle is so goddamn funny to me. Maybe the CIA should start recruiting fanfic writers for their cyberwarfare division 🤣
Sadly, I really wasn't suprised about that. Hardcore FF nuts, especially for the Harry Potter and Naruto Franchises can be disturbingly obsessive. There are groups which are just barely below KPop Stans in terms of insanity. I modded one such forum to help out an ex and gave up about two weeks in. Keep in mind I have been modding politics forums for years before that, but the insanity of those two weeks made me stop modding altogether
@@Nucksen yikes, that's......yeeeeeeeeah, I was a Star Trek fan well before I set foot in Livejournal but the Enterprise ship war is a baby preschool slap fight compared to every other fandom I've been apart of since. I can't wait for the Voltron installments (in the plural, because you can't stop at just one and honestly two would only be scratching the surface)
@@Nucksen This is true. I remember being a hardcore fan, and I just cringe remembering the stuff I wrote. Ugh. I "woke up" from it, though, and it's pretty interesting to go onto wattpad or FFnet and read what people write. Sometimes, I find one that actually is pretty thoughtful, and that's cool.
It should be noted that by the time this story starts Cassandra Clare had already been outed as a plagiarist and kicked out of ffn. This is one of the reasons Ficition Alley was founded
That's what was accused back on the day. She was Clare's beta reader, and is a copyright lawyer, and during the plagiarism debacle it was suggested that Heidi had contributed one of the plagiarized sections to clare. I'm not sure if I remember accusations about her own writing. Was on ffn at the time, though in the Buffy section, but word got around.
this channel should make a video exposing cassandra clare bs. i dont know if they already did but i was expecting some of it on this video but it was more about Msscribe. to be frank if they put all cc story on it, the video would pass the 2h mark and nobody have time for that
Ms. Scribe's daughter, if the daycare post is to be believed, would be older than me. She'd be nearly 20 or something by now, an older teen. *she is old enough to have internet*. She is old enough to find out this whole scandal.
The thing that makes this whole story for me is the disconnect between effort and reward. This person ran multiple sockpuppet accounts, and dedicated countless hours constructing an elaborate web of lies... to become a mod of a fanfiction forum. Professionals have put less effort into their jobs than this woman did into her drama.
I get what you're trying to say, but you mean IP. ISP is who you're buying internet access from. ISBN, which you appear to have conflated there somehow, is an ID number for published books.
@@KariIzumi1, thats for the automated ads on the front and in the middle of the video. For sponsor spots as a part of the video you need to be contacted by those companies. Sponsor spots aren't an official thing, they're done outside of youtube's official mechanisms.
If YOU want to dupe an entire fandom, you will need knowledge about psychology, writing and clandestine operations. All of which you can learn about RIGHT NOW on Skillshare...
My favorite part of this whole thing is that Cassandra Clare got on her high horse about teen pregnancy and how fucking weird it is to write a fanfic about it and then proceeded to write an incest fic longer than a master's thesis that she would later name her best-selling YA urban fantasy series after.
@@darkwitnesslxx I meant she named her YA urban fantasy series Mortal Instruments, which is the same name as her incest fic. I think now it's better known as Shadowhunters.
@@Brootnoot Really? I've never actually read a word of shadowhunters and don't really give a shit about harry potter so I'm only familiar with her stuff through booktube/drama sites. I know about the incest fake-out in the first book, but didn't think there was any further incest besides the Clary/Sebastian thing were he was clearly the villian. Are there passages from the OG The Mortal Insturments in the series? What about plot-points? I believe you, I'm just curious now.
@@wormdoodles I was too young to have read the original Fanfiction, but the incest plot stretches beyond the first book I think. They genuinely believe theyre siblings for a while and still wanna bang - that's Ron/Ginny stuff i think from the original Mortal Instruments. I genuinely believe she wanted it to be actual incest with the way it's written (Jace talks about how he tried to look at her like an older brother, to protect her as a brother should, but he couldn't , and I went 🤢🤮 and repressed that shit bc I genuinely believe it was from her real incest fic) But the looks of the characters are all from the Draco Trilogy, same as many of the dynamics. I'm gonna see if my friend read the OG fics to see if there's stuff she might remember Reading them i can recognising who is meant to be who, but the whole
See, I literally never once considered that the first time I read the books. They’re best friends, of course they’d get along really well and have fun with each other. That’s what a best friend is for
@@jgamer2228 Shipping Remus/Sirius is the same mood as shipping Frodo/Sam in the LotR fandom. I mean, people are free to ship whatever they want, but I don't understand why people be trippin over themselves to invalidate healthy male friendships
what's crazy to me is that msscribe had at least one child, and a day job at a school, yet had time to run all of this mess?? "one minute sweetie, mommy's busy making fake accounts that are supposed to bully her for liking different harry potter ships"
@@iwakeupandboomimarat "Miss Heidi, we really need that DNA evidence from your client, five people are dead--" "God ONE MINUTE your honour I'm cyberbullying smh 🙄"
@@damienthonk1506 yeah but why are we letting her get away with. it? it's so funny because I've seen so many people talk about Cassandra Clare and they always mention her incest fetish like it's the funniest shit on the planet. and not a really gross thing.
@@dumbbitch2048 Well, like the video said, people quite literally worshipped Cassandra Clare like a goddess (and often still do.) When you reach that kind of audience, especially before the days of movements like cancel culture and Twitter, it's a lot easier for someone to pass of a weird fetish of theirs as just a "quirk."
Tbh, I don't really care what weird incest fetish she has. I just wish that she kept it the fuck out of her YA. If she felt the need to write about it, she should have just written and published some smutty incest-driven adult romance novel. At least whoever the hell wrote Fifty Shades of Grey published her glorified fanfiction as erotica and not dressed it up for the YA market.
Wait what... If anything this should be an inspiring tail about the potential intelligence if humanity. Misscribe can be seen as the progenitor of current internet culture. One of the first to Able to see the Grand scale effects that forums and communities could have on the world atlarge.The effects she caused are now perfectly reflected and institutionalized in are society. A true Forward thinker. If anything, This should make you feel smaller than you ever have before.
"Sporkify can't be a Fiction Alley mod because I asked the Fiction Alley mods if they knew who he was and no one did" is the funniest rebuttal to the Msscribe evidence but it's like ten times as funny coming from the person who's supposed to be a real life lawyer.
ye she kinda has a streak of avoiding and ignoring hard evidence and straightup sweeping actual breaks of the intelectual property laws (which she is a lawyer for) under the rug for her fandom besties when cassandra clare was squashed like a bug on ffn for plagiarizing countless existing works she was straightup like yall guys are stupid theres nothing wrong with copypasting large swaths of other peoples work in yours)))) its all fiiine))) kinda scary considering shes a lawyer for that kinda stuff, i pity her clients, shes clearly unfit to do the job
@@sethamederat5841 god takes from us betty white, and leaves us here with the harriette porber fanfic lawyer who is a genuine oxygen thief. we are an accursed people with no hope for a better tomorrow. woe betide us for what we have wrought. ms scrunt? alive. my grandma? not alive. unjust.
Me, a 13-year-old logging onto Fictionalley in 2004: “What a lovely day. Let me check to see if my favorite fics have updated, and then maybe I’ll stop by the HMS Pumpkin Pie and leave a comment with lots of exclamation points.” In the background: ~All this shit~
Haha. I was in college when the Johnlock stuff was happening. I only watched Sherlock because of this girl I liked but I thought this show sucks and they’ll never have the balls to put John and Sherlock in a gay relationship. I had no idea of the the conflict in forums that put World War I to shame was going on over what I thought was pretty obvious. Fandoms are crazy yo. I feel bad for them.
@@jamiekamihachi3135 I was also in college. I had been a big fan for the first two seasons, but lost interest during season three. It was years before I came across a reference to the Apple Tree Yard conspiracy online, and stared in astonishment at the complete dumpster fire I'd avoided.
Problematic Loser I quit after book 4 came out when I was in high school and they started the Jace is vulnerable to demon possession and is going to hurt Clary (also oh god. Cassandra Clare. Clary. Wtf). Did it get any better?
I remember seeing a post on Tumblr that said CC was problematic and I was like, yeah the Clary/Jace thing was pretty weird. This? I did not expect all this.
@@noisykrickett7758 In my opinion, the first 3 were a good enough read, the 4th book was passable but the clear sign that this should've ended on the 3rd, I couldnt get through the 5th, and the 6th (I looked up the plot) was laughable and I'm kinda glad I didn't read it
I sincerely hope that Angua is now working as an investigative journalist somewhere. The fact that she spent years quietly following and gathering evidence on these idiots even though no one believed her is god damn inspiring!
In retrospective, it's actually kinda funny MsScribe didn't do anything revolutionary nor unique. She was just a sock puppeteer. What actually saved her was the fact that the internet was incredibly young, gullible and innocent at the time. Everyone had the "You think someone would do that? Go into the internet and tell lies?" mentality. It took one person preparing a thermonuclear clapping so bad that she couldn't defend against it and everyone actually believed it for once. Like, even when it came to arguments, her arguments were all flawed and incredibly flimsy. It takes a person with an IQ above room temperature to figure it out
Think a lot of it was how tight-knit the community was: back then forums in general and especially in the nishe of HP fanfics, the communities were just way smaller and in a sense more dedicated as the internet as a whole wasn't as all consuming as it is now. You see that throghout the video with the extreme amount of tribalism between forums, where for many users what site they went to was a fundamental part of their online persona. So the idea that somebody would cynically exploit the goodwill of "their own" in such a manner (what makes MsScribe unique is that she ran the ruse from the day she made her account with her "fangirls"), was I think somewhat understandably completely alien to users.
so what i'm hearing is that a bunch of *adults* decided to beef like 13 year old girls over *shipping* and managed to create some WW3 level web of lies about *fanfiction*. and now one of them is a published author. i swear man fandom never ceases to amaze me
A published author with not only 27 books under her belt but also a shitty movie based off her books and an alright tv show that lasted three fucking seasons
Yep... And it's all repeating on places like Twitter with the Supernatural fandom now. I was around for this shit the first time, so 2nd time is not an improvement. Whole video's worth of comments and content got me havin' some sort of double-relatability moment. The shipping comes in, then people lose their minds; 3 eps to go, and Dean is DEFINITELY not going to be confirmed canonically Bi-sex or with either of his partners (re:bestfriend/brothers) romantically... I await the inevitable implosion (of the SPN fandom).
“Apologise for this” “Ok we apologise, but we also don’t think this was us.” “Fuck you we dont accept your apology.” God everyone in this story makes me mad
The pig and mud analogy was flawed too! The accuser is the one who has to provide sufficient evidence of the crime. Like it’s pretty obvious if I was rolling around with pigs or just got splashed while passing by; the amount of mud should prove me innocent!
I also rolled my eyes SOOOO hard at how Ebony described Gryffindor Tower as a “corporation” when this a relatively private Harry Potter fanfiction hosting website.
Also, her initial sentence was wrong too. It wasn't actually proven that she was part of the "corporation" in this analogy. They DENOUNCED her. Which goes to show they didn't associate with her or her views. But I guess that wasn't enough either??? There was no winning that interaction tbh
She also said something along the lines of "when a corpotation's worker does X, the corporation has to apologize on their behalf" - except they weren't a corporation, and it wasn't one of their workers. They were just a fanfiction site with no real power, and this was a random user who logged on maybe once before being kicked out. This was 100% not their responsibility, not their pigs and not their mud.
I'm still flabbergasted that Cassandra Clare railed against material she found morally rephrensible, while she and her friends proudly owned that they wrote stuff that could also be considered immoral.
Fifty Shades of Grey started off as HP fanfiction, it's a powerful fandom with incredibly low standards of writing. It doesn't take much to impress them but once you do you're set.
Ebony Thomas taught high school. Msscribe was involved with Delaware schools. Heidi was a lawyer. That hits me hard. These people were professionals and in their spare time they did....this. I love it.
Thinking about it more, I would be weirded out to be a teenager whose teacher wrote (and defended with vitriol) fiction about characters my age having sex and incest sex with one another. Creepy.
honestly id get if these were tweens/teens arguing, hell even 19 or 20 year olds with nothing else to do. but these were adults. with full time jobs. and CHILDREN. and they were fighting over fanfic archives and incest fic
Same. I may be into certain books and shows as an adult, but I'm not "create an inner circle of underage fanfiction porn writers and watch the world burn" into them. Although now I fear there may be some shadowy internet cabal worshipping the crappy fanfiction I wrote as a teenager around this time.
Honestly watching a thirtysomething woman from the mid-aughts Talented Mr. Ripley herself to the summit of the Harry Potter slashfic world through the power of And Everybody Clapped and bigoted sockpuppets has legitimately inspired me to use the meager skills at my own disposal in pursuit of my dreams
@@theoneandonlymichaelmccormick I'll agree with the second one, but her work speaks for itself. It's not garbage, but it is not the great work of art it is treated as.
Michael O'Connor Yeah, the truth is that the Harry Potter franchise isn’t some transcendent work. It struck a cord with audiences, (many of them children and people with children), and Rowling was just barely good enough a writer to express that story somewhat compellingly. Whatever she wrote isn’t remotely good enough to make her deserve the benefit of the doubt, or make the work capable of being discussed without her authorship as context. Granted, that goes with any piece of art.
It's so weird to imagine that MsScribe is probabaly in her 50s now. Some lady who is almost old enough to be someone's grandparent was at some point the center of legendary fandom cringe. It makes me think about all of the people who are stirring Internet scandals now and realize that these people are going to be middle aged one day.
@@Laeiryn in that series, the protagonist does kiss her brother twice unknowingly (technically only once because one of them turned out to not be her brother), so I can believe that.
i physically couldn't name any published stories off a fanfiction of mine(my fanfictions don't have names because they're just daydreams and AUs for roleplays) but i'm DEFINITELY going to name the story of a shapeshifter (with the ability of changing his whole appareance) messing with others after Msscribe holy shit.
Coming back to this, one of the things that makes me really sad is the realization that Ms. Scribe had to grab some poor Rando’s (admittedly rather unflattering, I’m sure she’s a lovely gal but no one looks good in that particular setup) photos off the internet to lend credence/cannon fodder for the Pottersginny sock puppet account, and now I feel really bad for whoever those pictures actually belonged to??? She probably never even knew that her likeness was being used to voice hateful opinions she may very well not have actually had (at least, I hope she didn’t), as well as having her likeness actively mocked by strangers on the internet who had nothing to do with her actual life??? The pictures aren’t great, but no one looks good in old glamour shots really, and whoever she is I hope she never suffered any weird residual harm or drama from the use of her photo in this way. :(
Sadly it wasn't till the 90s that interracial marriage passed the 50% public acceptance mark, so it really is a coin flip whether said lady would agree or not
One day idle curiosity got better of me and I found Msscribe's real name and then-current job... Let's just say she probably had access to pro-level image editing tools and unwatermarked stock photo collections her whole career. Which opens a weird possibility that whoever was in those photos, _actually was a legit model,_ doing some kind of "stock average white woman" shoot plus some unflattering photoshop...
@@user-jx1ez1uk6q I didn't dig deep or anything, and the internet being what it is, I don't want to accidentally dogpile someone who just happens to have the same name (not common but not that unusual either) and lives in Delaware.
I think Heidi knew the moment she read Anguas's lengthy email, that Angua was not only on to something, but spot on right. And her strategy was , to stick her head into the sand and ignore everything, since no one at the time would believe Angua. Heidi knew that, and probably hoped it would just go away. As a person and especially as a lawyer, that was a more than disappointing display of character.
Playing devils advocate: Heidi was in a vastly different position from Angua with regards to the what MsScribe was to her. To her it wasn’t some stranger, it was a woman she spent a lot of time online with and even met and hung out with irl. Facing that some person you know manipulated you into liking her and keeping the act up even when interacting with you to your face is a pretty shit thing to experience.
@@zawrator4457 It might be a mixture of both. Personally though, I think Heidi, like the rest of the Inner Circle, probably just saw herself as so above it all and was so sure of herself that she didn't even feel the need to look at the evidence, probably just seeing it as annoying spam.
As someone who joined fandom in later years and is therefore mostly oblivious to the details of a lot of this stuff, I'd watch that. Make an episode about the LiveJournal purge and the rise of Ao3
I struggle not to imagine Angua, who is probably now a woman in her 40’s+, as a hard boiled detective, working through the nights in a black and white jazz fueled city to uncover the truth about what’s really going on in the community of completely grown adult fans surrounding a book written for British Children.
If that’s what you’re into then the HIVLiving video that followed this one - or as I like to think of it “Hamilton fandom Chinatown” - must be a real delight
Thomas Carrion Read "Feet of Clay" by Terry Pratchett It's third in a series, after "Guards, Guards!" And "Men At Arms", but FoC has Angua doing the most detective work. She's introduced in MaA, but that has less focus on her because she's a rookie.
Was the exposé officially confirmed to be written by Angua? According the FandomLore wiki, many users suspected that another fellow fanfic writer called Carlanime wrote the exposé, with help other ppl in the fandom. Angua is still around on Livejournal apparently, not quite as active obviously, but she does post every few couple of months or so.
The thing that's so interesting about how they hated Gryffindor Tower is that like, GT couldn't have done any more to not be present in the Fiction Alley group/ Msscribe's lives. They had a totally different website, were not really part of Harry Potter for Grown Ups, didn't want to be part of Nimbus 2000 etc. Unlike now where because of there being fewer sites you might come across pairings you don't like it seems to have been so easy then to simply not interact with this group. And yet msscribe still decided they were her arch nemesis and needed to be destroyed...
From my experience, the internet was often viewed by adults as THEIR space with kids intruding by coming from their "kiddie sites" and ruining it for them. I was 13 when the internet came out and was told often to "go back to my kiddie sites if I didn't like it" on a lot of forums by adults.
@@DiscoTimelordASD"Snot nosed minors should not be in my nsfw strip club adult space REEEEEEE" and then the space in question is a fandom of something targeted towards minors.
@@yoshitheorbit1118A fandom is collection of spaces, not one giant space that is intended only for its target demographic. Kids should not wander into the spaces the adults in the fandom have carved out for themselves.
@@Troublethecatmaybe the adults should be actively working to make sure the children who the piece of media is targeting don't wander into their spaces. exactly like how gt had password locks on their nsfw fic
I swear the interactions people have inside internet subcultures could be studied by political scientists and game theorists for decades to come. The level of cultural nuance these groups develop, the issues of identity and tribalism they breed, is nowhere so well document as it is in these enclaves.
This is so true. This is the first time I here of this Ms.Scribe drama, but as a teenager I used to be in a fanfic community for the Hunger Games Trilogy (I know). Given the nature of the books, there wasn't a lot of sexy stuff going on in the fanfics, if any at all. But in the community, specifically in our group of around 70 members at its peak, there was still a lot of unnecessary drama going on. Like, a lot. In many ways similar to what was described in the video. I thought that was due to the fact that we were all angsty immature teenagers... Who would've thought "Grown Ups" could be even pettier than we were.
The Pottersginny thing is especially hilarious months later after the My Immortal video by Sarah Z where she did a deep dive and discovered there is in fact a huge harry potter bible crossover fandom, many devout christians who love harry potter (and often write about him being converted), and that there's just bible fanfiction in general
I mean at least the first book is on the Vatican's list of reccomended fiction. While the Vatican is as far away from American evangelists as Christianity can get, there's plenty of messages in Harry Potter that align with Christian believes and it's not unlikely that a devout Christian would gravitate towards those aspects, even if they had a problem with the portrayal of witchcraft. And fixing the one aspect you don't agree with of something you otherwise enjoy is like half of fanfiction, so it's not as absurd as it seems.
Honestly all these "Keep this in mind later" feels like a point and click adventure game where you add stuff to your inventory that will only become relevant once you've forgotten where you got it from.
@@FizzleCosmos I wonder if it would be better or worse for enjoyment of those games to write down every sentence that causes a "blank will remember this" prompt
everything about this felt like an ace attorney game where whenever some random little info is mentioned the game goes "(insert bullshit item) added to the court record" and you're there just sighing to yourself.
She's still a lawyer with an active twitter profile under her real name. Apparently, she focuses on IP and copyright law with a focus on fandom issues, which, yeah, tracks.
@@crissy4445 none of us humans are going to heaven since there's a million aliens cooler than us. If you get the joke 10 points to whatever HP house your in ;)
if you know Msscribe's full name it's easy to find her public social media profile. she recently posted a lengthy callout article accusing someone she knows irl (and that person's group of white mom friends) of racist micro-aggressions against her, complete with text message screenshots that the accused claims have been doctored. the post has 157 comments and 18 shares. people never change. i'm sure her kids are well aware that their mom is a psycho.
Judessa Anna Gonzales Pottersginny was one of Msscribe’s confirmed sock puppet accounts, yes. I’ve seen photographs of MsScribe and I don’t believe that she’s lying about being biracial. I know plenty of very pale and white passing mixed people. Compared to many actual race faking drama llamas, MsScribe was relatively subtle about it and didn’t bring it up constantly, as opposed to her hatred of Harry/Ginny lol.
@@dramatictrauma331 Yes, I'm mixed & totally white passing, & it's pretty common. Even among celebs you see women who are 50/50 mixed can look like Rashida Jones. I believe Msscribe is mixed but tbh it's unlikely that she's experiencing microaggressions from the other moms who prob think she's white
i gotta say as an 18 year-old who has been on the internet long enough to see Steven Universe and FNAF make their debuts its very bizarre to see that fandom drama to this intensity has been around since i was in the fucking womb
May I humbly suggest you cover the debacle of the tumblr fanfic author who pretended to be a pair of HIV positive POC lesbians in order to write their hamiliton fanfic
Honestly, one of the saddest things about this is that every time she trolled, she mashed together genuine issues in fandom (predators, pedophilia, the normalization of abuse, etc) with obviously horrible sentiments (homophobia, racism, etc), and that meant that you couldn't even say 'hey maybe they have a point about the CP' without siding with a homophobic racist. Predators in fandom spaces is SUCH a big issue, ESPECIALLY in the Harry Potter community (I swear, every single one of my friends and I were preyed on by a HP fan smh), and I hate that people intentionally lump it together with actually bad things to make it seem ridiculous.
But that's the thing, in the early 2000's, those really WEREN'T actual concerns. When she was posing as this religious fundamentalist, she wasn't saying "Hey, we're writing bad stuff and we know it, but we don't care": instead, she was parroting the way these people would talk at the time, using things that could be potential concerns as excuses to push forward a bigoted agenda. When people said "paedophiles" they didn't mean ACTUAL paedophiles, but LGBT+ people, you know, the whole "'Won't somebody please think of the children!" thing. So of course, people automatically ignored such claims BECAUSE they were ridiculous, and not concerned with children *at all*. You couldn't bring up valid points because it wasn't the right place/moment to bring them. On top of that, we're talking about the early 2000s, where only one or two films were out (so the bulk of the fandom came from the books) and actual kids wouldn't have access to these sites anyway as they weren't widespread or easy to find (so again, the predator thing was a non-concern, at least, NOT like it is right now, as people acknowledged that fandom spaces at the time were adult spaces and minors would not disclose their real ages if they were somehow accessing them). As valid as your concerns may be, you can't extrapolate the state of todays internet/fandom to past fandom, because both were completely different places with different dynamics.
@@LynnHermione Writing detailed fics focused around themes like pedophilia, abuse, and rape while not posing them as bad things and instead romanticizing them is normalizing them, my dude. Lolita vs a RPF of actual child actors type beat. Same reason everyone hated 10 Reasons Why or whatever it was.
@@Siocpa yeah, I'm totally looking at it from a new internet POV. I hadn't even considered early 2000s culture and ideals :^/ disheartening but also wow we've come a ways.
@@Siocpa I was in past Fandom - pedophilia and grooming were an actual issue and quite frankly, writing porn about minors is reprehensible regardless. We were there, but at the time the Fandom zeitgeist just didn’t care about such things. Morality and self-awareness was unimportant.
You'll never convince me that the rest of the inner circle, including Cassie Claire, weren't in on this the entire time. They covered their own asses when it fell apart.
@Genny Baratta I just vividly flashed back to the “maniacally laughing Ed from Cowboy Bebop” gif they used in response to their own accidentally-not-anonymous anon hate and got to savor this MVP moment of internet history like it was the first time again, so thank you for that
@@Champiness I'm sorry I am not familiar with how tumblr works nor do I think I understand its interface. Would you mind telling me what is going on in that link you shared? I am not trying to troll you or anything, I legitimately am confused and want to understand what's in it.
It carried over to the actual Mortal Instruments series, though the incest there turns out not to be incest. But keep in mind that only gets revealed in the second book. Before that, the romance between the two leads who at the time thought they're actually siblings are still weirdly sexual. Even putting it in context of they're actually not related at all, it's still weird.
@@Tamaki742 There are probably genetic things that make people who are closely related unlikely to be attracted to each other even if they don't know they're related at all, but it does happen. What really doesn't happen is children who grow up identifying as siblings becoming attracted to each other. Retconning them to not actually be related doesn't fix the ick factor at all.
@@adde9506 Yeah at the end of the first book, it's more of the case where they were told that they have the same father. So they never grew up together and it's the same case with people who only found out later that they're first or second cousins in the relationship. But come on, if I found out my hypothetical boyfriend is actually one of my parent's son from the previous marriage, pretty sure mutual understanding breakup is almost instant. It just still feels weird that this is Clare's idea of a tension in relationship, like characters now knowing that they're apparently siblings still want to kiss each other, then conveniently it turns out they're not.
@@Tamaki742 I suppose in real life it would come down to how significant your relationship was and if children were a concern. In a book, there's really no excuse for it unless a commentary on incest is the point. If she was really using it as a form of romantic tension, it's still wacked out. And probably says something really uncomfortable about her real life. I guess that's sad, but I'd have more sympathy if she'd written that book instead of plagiarizing. Or maybe she's stoked about it and I'm still glad I didn't read her book. BTW, lifting chunks of her own fanfiction to write her own book isn't plagiarism, it's just lazy. She plagiarized someone else.
Just to be clear (though I’m not defending her bullshit like damn Cass get it together): TMI was based on the earlier Draco fic (can’t remember the name sorry) NOT the incest fic by the same name as TMI. She’s still like sus as hell tho and as much as I enjoyed TMI and TID (haven’t read the third set) it’s absolutely whack that Cass was writing incest fic before that.
Also probably a good guess to say your purchased the Harry Potter fanfiction, because she literally used the name and plot from her fanfiction days. She was El James before El James
I know. I have her Mortal Instruments series and 2 books from a different series and I can't even look at them without thinking of this video. I only ever read the first Mortal Instruments book but I don't think I'll be revisiting those for a long time :/
@@darkwitnesslxx I'm going to have to track down that fic, because while I can see how the romantic plotline could have been recycled, the rest of the story and world building wouldn't fit into HP without serious remodeling. And if you're changing vast swaths of your story from fanfic to publishing, then you're not really deserving of being put in the same area as 50 shades, which was legitimately a twilight fanfic with the serial numbers filed off.
Fucking hell, imagine being Delaware and your claims to fame are being the first state, and being ground zero of an epic tale of batshit fandom warfare that defined the old HP Livejournal shipping trench warfare of the early 00s.
I have to applaud that patience Angua must have had for not only compiling that mountain of evidence and organizing this whole conspiracy into a coherent timeline like she was taking down Jeffery Epstein BUT ALSO not getting discouraged when she was ignored over and over again and waiting for the perfect moment to drive her sword into the heart of the dragon. She was either running on a firm dedication to justice or the purest spite ever forged in a human soul.
I think Angua had a few things going for her: she wasn't involved in any of the websites or cliques, so she was just an outsider and able to see that everyone was acting stupid. Then when no one listened to her she got spiteful and kept compiling evidence lol.
What I find bizarre is how Msscribe made all those 'witty retorts' about Pottersginny's supposed weight to try and gain the favour of Cassandra Claire, who is not a small woman by any means. And that it at least partially worked!
i hate to say it but, sometimes, bigger people are happy to jump on making fun of other fat people (usually those they perceive to be bigger than them) as a way to placate their own insecurities. at least they aren’t “that big” or at least they “are realistic about their bodies”, etc etc. i know this because i’m a bigger person and i used to do these things i saw others do it as well.
@@shakeybakey5849Unfortunately this is my aunt since she got her gastric bypass and lost weight. She keeps making nasty comments about fat people like she didn't use to be fatter than them.
@@khfan4life365 rowling used werewolfs in the series as a metaphor for hiv/aids, at a time when a lot of people still thought it was something that mainly/only affected gay/bi men so
Macaroons the sequel From what I remember, that’s highly misunderstood. JK Rowling never directly said she intended for Remus to be an AIDS allegory. She rather said it was an allegory for diseases with a stigma, particularly blood ones, and gave AIDS as an example of one. And this was something she revealed 15 years after the events of this video. I’m guessing she wrote it as a vague metaphor for health conditions with a stigma and mentioned AIDS as the example because she noticed fans had already started to make that connection.
@@iwakeupandboomimarat I hate the werewolves being metaphors for aids since it makes the situation of Greyback biting a young Lupin and then transfering the "werewolf sickness" basically a metaphor for child rape which is soooo fucked.
Minerva: *repeatedly hints at Msscribe being a puppeteer* me, born in 2000 with no recollection of this era of the internet: wow this story is so enthralling. where could any of these intricate details possibly go next Minerva: Msscribe was a puppeteer me: *surprised pikachu*
That was the whole point of AO3, actually! They made it in response to strike through and other fandom drama as a safe space for writers where it would be harder to hang up on writers for posting things you don't like. It was really based on the ship and let ship school of thought! 😃
"After all this, it's hard to see how things could get worse for Gryffindor Tower. *sting* A few days later, things got worse for Gryffindor Tower." I ALMOST DIED
in light of your statement on tumblr about no longer continuing this series, i just wanted to pop in and say how much we all appreciate the work that went into these episodes. they're always fun to go back and re-watch and i hope that you find joy in whatever content you choose to continue producing on this channel.
@@LA-be8fu yeah i think she had to take down the hivliving post bc of extreme misinformation (dont know what specifically was wrong) and probably just didnt want to deal with that again
Honestly I think Angua9 is more impressive than Msscribe considering how much time and effort she put into uncovering the truth. She'd probably make a good Forensic Accountant
And the thing is, that is not the only thing that Angua was doing. She was also parsimoniously examining literally all the batshittery that came from the Harry/Hermione community post-OotP.
@@TheKnoxvicious i think angua was frustrated by everyone's stupidity too much and some of her own friends got pulled into the drama and she just wanted to defend them.
I mean think about it, it was written a year before her popularity fell apart, she knew what triggered people, she knew how to cause drama. Coincidence?
double plot twist: J.K. Rowling, Msscribe and the author of My Immortal are all the same person. She only wrote Harry Potter in order to inspire the world's most infamous fandom drama.
Please please do one of these on hivliving, the Hamilton high school AU girl who lied about being a Chinese-Pakistani trafficking survivor with HIV and it turned out to be an 18 year old white girl from the USA. I am aware he’s done an episode on this now, I’ve watched it and it’s really good but you don’t need to tell me about it
this really goes to show not much has changed. i assumed tumblr drama about "anti shippers" vs "pro shippers" and canceling groups/blogs with callout posts was something new but it really has been going on for over a decade with just some slight changes huh
I would go as far as to say decades. Shipping predates the internet. Before there was fanfiction sites there were magazines for Fanfiction. Star Trek was one of the biggest for slash shipping.
@@TheSlipperyNUwUdle Literally. I fell down a rabbit hole of 70s and 80s Star Trek shipping drama recently and people were having almost the exact same arguments that they have nowadays, just through letter.
I was a part of this fandom when the msscribe drama went down. It's wild to me that this is still being discussed today - the internet truly never forgets. I was friends with Dionne (msscribe's real name), Cassie, Aja, and other "Big Name Fans," and I remember the "PottersGinny" drama well. You hit the nail on the head perfectly: we were all having too much fun to notice how fishy the story was. PottersGinny's "real life photo" should have been a dead giveaway on its own. One thing I can elaborate on is msscribe herself; I met her at Nimbus and she was funny and charismatic. She was known more for her big personality than she was her writing (which I never read). She took advantage of a fandom division that already existed between the "canon compliance" fans and the "lets write about Draco and Harry's unresolved sexual tension" fans, and fanned the flames expertly, making herself one of the primary victims as well as Cassie's white knight. I wasn't close enough to msscribe to feel truly betrayed by her actions, but others definitely were. To say nothing of the poor folks at GT who got vilified thanks to her lies.
I too came to the HP fandom as an adult, 21, pregnant with my first child, my younger sister recommended HP as I couldn't focus on the usual books I love to read. Of course I fell in love and of course I came to the series during the "long wait" between Goblet and Order. So I went online, Mugglenet. Mugglenet is a gateway drug that leads you to the fics elsewhere. I am no nutty Christian, no moral aggrandizing twit, but finding the incest, adult on child fics almost killed the fandom for me, in any other form of literature children having non-consenting sex with adults in authority or incest would be frowned upon even a kink....Couldn't believe my eyes, returned to relative safety of Mugglenet as fast as my fingers could take me.
@@MichieHoward I think there should definitely be spaces for people who don't want to read certain kinds of fic (whether they object on religious principals or simply don't want to be triggered by certain content); I think there should also be spaces for those who want to explore darker and more taboo themes (AO3 serves this purpose well, and allows for very clear content warnings). For me, it's always been about the quality of writing that has directed my interest, more than the topics or themes.
To be fair, the HP Livejournal shipping wars were like, the apex of Wild West early 00s internet trench warfare. msscribe is also a pretty useful case-in-point in how enough charisma and manipulation can make even the biggest pile of BS seem believable, a case I direct people to often when they wonder why con artists can be so successful despite what, in retrospect, seems like obvious BS.
@@k.morningstar7983 Honestly exactly. I'm not mixed race so I won't speak for anyone but it really doesnt have anything insulting about it. "You're a Zebra!!" "Um... cool?"
@@iamaunicorn1232 i am a mixed person and yeah i used to get “penguin” and “oreo” a lot. it gets annoying, but they’re definitely not slurs lmaoo. i agree, def not even worth slapping them back down haha
And some of them were teachers. Imagine finding out that your child's teacher spends a large part of their spare time writing smut about children their age.
@@aisforanimate4703 Quadruple plot twist: Peter Pettigrew and Voldemort were the real inspiration for 50 Shades of Grey. Only Voldemort was Ana, and Pettigrew was Christian, and Dumbledore used to watch. Voldemort feared Dumbledore so much cause he was scared he'd reveal his secret to the world.
I would kill for us to still have the fandom wild west available. I wanna see sock puppets. I wanna sneak my way into a heirarchy of superfans. I wanna watch it all collapse. I was truly born in the wrong generation (the generation of people these books were the target audience for)
Oh this definitely still does happen! You just have to be in the right fandoms/websites to see it unfold. Tumblr still has that shit going on to this day. Now, instead of the drama being in book fandoms, it all takes place in show/music fandoms now.
like Elixstrations said, I assure you that if you just go to the latest most popular board for the most popular cartoon show among teens and early 20-somethings you will have the EXACT same experience, point blank period! the only thing that has changed is the aesthetic around it all and the speed at which fandoms switch out.
Whenever I feel down, whenever I'm worried I'm not living up to my potential, whenever I think I'm not as good as I could be, I rewatch this vid and tell myself, "At least I'm not the kind of person that sends themselves fake racist hate mail to promote my Harry Potter fan-fics"
The fact that Cassandra Clare, one of the widest selling YA authors of our time, was in fandom wars over fanfiction as full grown woman will never fail to give me whiplash.
the pettiness of Ebony is almost more shocking; a woman who works in the professional world, demanding an apology on the level of a corporation like Starbucks from a fucking fan fiction forum, for a supposed member they can't even prove was active.
@@k.morningstar7983 When I read that thing she wrote demanding an apology I was like girl it's a fucking children's book series and you're here writing the Declaration of independence or something
try it coming from the other direction, as someone actually in the fandom at the time and knowing that she stole (coughcough repurposed) most of the wittiest lines in her most popular fic from other sources. then to see her get published and become so popular after that and all of the other drama she'd been involved in.
Tum Tum That wasn’t what Rowling said at all, that’s just the misconception because some news article interviewing her wanted clout and used that as a headliner. In reality what she said was that she regretted putting Ron and Hermione together, that’s it. She had potentially also wanted to have Fred as Hermione’s love interest, and you can even see the seeds she tried to plant in the books. But she was wishy washy about it and ended up going with Ron. Which is fine, they are my otp. What gets on my nerves is Harry x Ginny since there was no actual interest on Harry’s part until the sixth book, which is the same book he dates her. That’s too quick, no buildup, no chemistry at all. He had more chemistry with Luna! And then there’s the fact that Ginny is a Weasley, the very family Harry feels an extreme attachment to. It’s feels like Harry would do anything to be a Weasley, and if that means dating a Weasley then he would do it. But Ron is a different story! Ron himself is Harry’s savior, he’s the person Harry is most himself with, the person who can bring all extreme emotions out of Harry, the person he “most missed”. Ron isn’t just a Weasley to Harry, but Ginny was just a Weasley for five whole books. In book five, when Hermione tells Ron that Ginny is no longer interested in Harry (which is a lie) , Harry says “ so THATS why she talks now!” And no one gets that it means Harry has absolutely no communication, no chemistry with her before.
what I think is the best little detail is the fact those women who were more than happy to defend women's rights say (rightfully so) that they had right to sexual liberation were also more than happy to attack someone on their appearance, like, the lack of self-awareness is staggering
Isn’t it so wild that Cassandra named one of the villains in her books Imogen? It’s not a common name in the US, is it? I totally wouldn’t be surprised if this weird fandom drama was the inspiration
Wouldn't shock me. A lot of people have said her published books borrow quite a bit from her fanfics (not quite Filing Off the Serial Numbers, but you can see it from there) so I wouldn't be surprised if fandom drama also had bled over into her work.
Damn. If only Ms.Scribe had NordVPN
LMFAO
shh 🤫 ur gonna summon them............ the sponsors.................
I was literally here thinking this and plotting how I would do it better before realising I'm not unhinged enough to bother.
...actually this would be the one time where such a sponsorship would actually work
usually the NordVPN sponsorships go like "to avoid hackers, let all your traffic go through this random third party that's totally trustworthy, honest!" forgetting that stuff like TLS/SSL and HTTPS exist
EDIT: to summarize NordVPN advertise themselves usually through misinformation, but sockpuppeting would actually be a valid use of their product... wait... that's not a good thing...
This post is sponsored by RAID SHADOWLEGENDS
these people were A D U L T S
Adult, technically. Mature, maybe not quite so much. :)
WITH CHILDREN!!!
Adoltz
Not really much different than fandoms today, eh?
Many adults are just long children.
I'd make a "the real msscribe were the friends we made along the way" joke, but then i thought about it more, and odds are that the friends we made along the way WERE msscribe
Msscribe could be in this very room, it could be you, it could be me
@@Ludwig_Perpenhente now that i think about ive never seen msscribe and i in the same room
lmfao underrated comment, msscribe
@@Ludwig_Perpenhente it could even be-
Brilliant
Jeff the:
[ ] Killer
[ X ] Wife Guy
Quick someone write Jeff the Wife Guy slash
The true horror
Ah yes, the two genders
funny thing is Jeff the Wife Guy caused far more terror and destruction than the creepypasta character could ever hope to even if indirectly
Far more terrifying than the Killer
Every time I hear “Ebony” talking about Harry Potter. I get My Immortal flashbacks
Really? Every time I hear "ebony" I get a little hard.
Ah, sweet Enoby
"This is When Posting Goes Wrong," he stayted triumphfantley
pretty sure you mean enoby
THIS!!
The fact that someone did an extensive false flag campaign in order to infiltrate a Harry Potter fanfic moderators circle is so goddamn funny to me. Maybe the CIA should start recruiting fanfic writers for their cyberwarfare division 🤣
Sadly, I really wasn't suprised about that. Hardcore FF nuts, especially for the Harry Potter and Naruto Franchises can be disturbingly obsessive. There are groups which are just barely below KPop Stans in terms of insanity. I modded one such forum to help out an ex and gave up about two weeks in. Keep in mind I have been modding politics forums for years before that, but the insanity of those two weeks made me stop modding altogether
@@Nucksen yikes, that's......yeeeeeeeeah, I was a Star Trek fan well before I set foot in Livejournal but the Enterprise ship war is a baby preschool slap fight compared to every other fandom I've been apart of since.
I can't wait for the Voltron installments (in the plural, because you can't stop at just one and honestly two would only be scratching the surface)
@@Nucksen Could you share some stories?
@@Nucksen This is true. I remember being a hardcore fan, and I just cringe remembering the stuff I wrote. Ugh. I "woke up" from it, though, and it's pretty interesting to go onto wattpad or FFnet and read what people write.
Sometimes, I find one that actually is pretty thoughtful, and that's cool.
what makes you think they haven't already recruited some? 🤔
It should be noted that by the time this story starts Cassandra Clare had already been outed as a plagiarist and kicked out of ffn. This is one of the reasons Ficition Alley was founded
Heidi too, though she'll sue you for saying it.
@@darkwitnesslxx she also plagiarized?
That's what was accused back on the day. She was Clare's beta reader, and is a copyright lawyer, and during the plagiarism debacle it was suggested that Heidi had contributed one of the plagiarized sections to clare. I'm not sure if I remember accusations about her own writing. Was on ffn at the time, though in the Buffy section, but word got around.
@@darkwitnesslxx I see, thank you
this channel should make a video exposing cassandra clare bs.
i dont know if they already did but i was expecting some of it on this video but it was more about Msscribe. to be frank if they put all cc story on it, the video would pass the 2h mark and nobody have time for that
Ms. Scribe's daughter, if the daycare post is to be believed, would be older than me. She'd be nearly 20 or something by now, an older teen. *she is old enough to have internet*. She is old enough to find out this whole scandal.
Low-key feel for her and the secondhand embarrassment she must be feeling. Cannot IMAGINE
Imagine finding out your mom hung out with people who wrote insect smut of characters who were 13-14 at the time of writing the fanfics
I have an image of a 20 yearold finding this video and confronting her mom and then never talking to her again
If she exists, she would be thankful her mother went under an alias
I mean, she would have to know miss scribe is her mom, so unless she tells her daughter I doubt the girl will ever know
The thing that makes this whole story for me is the disconnect between effort and reward. This person ran multiple sockpuppet accounts, and dedicated countless hours constructing an elaborate web of lies... to become a mod of a fanfiction forum. Professionals have put less effort into their jobs than this woman did into her drama.
To some people, successfully manipulating others is it's own reward.
She successfully manipulated her way into getting close to people she idolized. In fandom terms that's a pretty big win.
Sounds like a cult
fandom is kinda like a cult in many ways
@@boyerism boi, if that isn't the understatement of the century
If only she had been using a service that could hide her IP address
.
.
.
.
Todays video is sponsored by NordVPN
God, if only I had enough subs to get these things sponsored, that would have been PERFECT
I get what you're trying to say, but you mean IP. ISP is who you're buying internet access from. ISBN, which you appear to have conflated there somehow, is an ID number for published books.
@@EldenaDoubleca5t don't you need at least 1000 for monetization through TH-cam?
@@KariIzumi1, thats for the automated ads on the front and in the middle of the video. For sponsor spots as a part of the video you need to be contacted by those companies. Sponsor spots aren't an official thing, they're done outside of youtube's official mechanisms.
If YOU want to dupe an entire fandom, you will need knowledge about psychology, writing and clandestine operations.
All of which you can learn about RIGHT NOW on Skillshare...
My favorite part of this whole thing is that Cassandra Clare got on her high horse about teen pregnancy and how fucking weird it is to write a fanfic about it and then proceeded to write an incest fic longer than a master's thesis that she would later name her best-selling YA urban fantasy series after.
Named after? That's what she wrote, its the same Ron/Ginny incest fic mentioned in this video renamed..
@@darkwitnesslxx I meant she named her YA urban fantasy series Mortal Instruments, which is the same name as her incest fic. I think now it's better known as Shadowhunters.
@@wormdoodles oh it's still the same fic. It's just mixed with her Draco trilogy I believe... Same incest fic tho
@@Brootnoot Really? I've never actually read a word of shadowhunters and don't really give a shit about harry potter so I'm only familiar with her stuff through booktube/drama sites. I know about the incest fake-out in the first book, but didn't think there was any further incest besides the Clary/Sebastian thing were he was clearly the villian. Are there passages from the OG The Mortal Insturments in the series? What about plot-points? I believe you, I'm just curious now.
@@wormdoodles I was too young to have read the original Fanfiction, but the incest plot stretches beyond the first book I think. They genuinely believe theyre siblings for a while and still wanna bang - that's Ron/Ginny stuff i think from the original Mortal Instruments. I genuinely believe she wanted it to be actual incest with the way it's written (Jace talks about how he tried to look at her like an older brother, to protect her as a brother should, but he couldn't , and I went 🤢🤮 and repressed that shit bc I genuinely believe it was from her real incest fic)
But the looks of the characters are all from the Draco Trilogy, same as many of the dynamics.
I'm gonna see if my friend read the OG fics to see if there's stuff she might remember
Reading them i can recognising who is meant to be who, but the whole
The fact that Remus/Sirius was considered canon compliant in the early 2000's, F.
Our expectations for Rowling's romantic writing was waaaaay too high.
See, I literally never once considered that the first time I read the books. They’re best friends, of course they’d get along really well and have fun with each other. That’s what a best friend is for
@@jgamer2228 Shipping Remus/Sirius is the same mood as shipping Frodo/Sam in the LotR fandom. I mean, people are free to ship whatever they want, but I don't understand why people be trippin over themselves to invalidate healthy male friendships
@@tha1whonox THANK YOU
Yeah, though I do admire their accuracy in the other ones.
"Wait... it's all msscribe?"
"Always has been."
You deserve an award for briefly explaining this very complex narrative in such a simple way
Beat me to it. Well done.
"After all this time?"
"Always"
No it was Toby
It’s all Toby!!
"The goddess was showing her first signs of mortality" is a BALLER line
To believe that it’s not a quote from classical literature but from a video about early Harry Potter fandom drama
@@gennybaratta2460 Amazing
what's crazy to me is that msscribe had at least one child, and a day job at a school, yet had time to run all of this mess??
"one minute sweetie, mommy's busy making fake accounts that are supposed to bully her for liking different harry potter ships"
and heidi was a LAWYER???
@@iwakeupandboomimarat good to know that my case is in the right hands 😃
@@iwakeupandboomimarat "Miss Heidi, we really need that DNA evidence from your client, five people are dead--"
"God ONE MINUTE your honour I'm cyberbullying smh 🙄"
are people just supposed to stop having hobbies once they have kids and jobs? most adults have both
@@soakupthenoise ah yes, making a dozen sockpuppets to start drama in the harry potter fandom, a (checks notes) hobby
so... is really no one going to talk about Cassandra Clare's obsession with incest? no one? like no one's even going to ask what's up with that?
It's a gross fetish. There, question answered.
@@damienthonk1506 yeah but why are we letting her get away with. it? it's so funny because I've seen so many people talk about Cassandra Clare and they always mention her incest fetish like it's the funniest shit on the planet. and not a really gross thing.
@@dumbbitch2048 Well, like the video said, people quite literally worshipped Cassandra Clare like a goddess (and often still do.) When you reach that kind of audience, especially before the days of movements like cancel culture and Twitter, it's a lot easier for someone to pass of a weird fetish of theirs as just a "quirk."
Tbh, I don't really care what weird incest fetish she has. I just wish that she kept it the fuck out of her YA. If she felt the need to write about it, she should have just written and published some smutty incest-driven adult romance novel. At least whoever the hell wrote Fifty Shades of Grey published her glorified fanfiction as erotica and not dressed it up for the YA market.
@@wormdoodles preach! This single handedly made me almost put down the mortal instruments series
I'm only 10 minutes in and this is already more complex than most European wars of the 18th century.
thank god im not the only one who was semi-confused.
It was also far more entertaining, too.
☠️
!!Napoleon Bonaparte!! Wants to know your location
The HP fan community is basically about as homogeneous and orderly as the Holy Roman Empire, but with more religious opinions and incest.
If you ever feel pathetic or unworthy, just remember the _grown ass adults_ who did this and remind yourself you are not so bad.
Paul J honestly i was feeling a little down on myself and this makes me feel infinitely better
You probably don't know, but a famous song lyric goes as follows: you're not smart for someone is dumber, you're not strong for someone is weak
Just like the people on 4chan, reddit, tumblr, ect
Thank you.
Wait what... If anything this should be an inspiring tail about the potential intelligence if humanity. Misscribe can be seen as the progenitor of current internet culture. One of the first to Able to see the Grand scale effects that forums and communities could have on the world atlarge.The effects she caused are now perfectly reflected and institutionalized in are society. A true Forward thinker.
If anything, This should make you feel smaller than you ever have before.
"Sporkify can't be a Fiction Alley mod because I asked the Fiction Alley mods if they knew who he was and no one did" is the funniest rebuttal to the Msscribe evidence but it's like ten times as funny coming from the person who's supposed to be a real life lawyer.
"Your honor I asked my client and he says he's innocent, what more could you need?"
She knew what she was doing. Even if hard evidence was dropped on her lap, she’d spend hours desperately trying to spin it to debunk the evidence
ye she kinda has a streak of avoiding and ignoring hard evidence and straightup sweeping actual breaks of the intelectual property laws (which she is a lawyer for) under the rug for her fandom besties
when cassandra clare was squashed like a bug on ffn for plagiarizing countless existing works she was straightup like yall guys are stupid theres nothing wrong with copypasting large swaths of other peoples work in yours)))) its all fiiine)))
kinda scary considering shes a lawyer for that kinda stuff, i pity her clients, shes clearly unfit to do the job
@@sethamederat5841 god takes from us betty white, and leaves us here with the harriette porber fanfic lawyer who is a genuine oxygen thief.
we are an accursed people with no hope for a better tomorrow. woe betide us for what we have wrought.
ms scrunt? alive.
my grandma? not alive.
unjust.
Me, a 13-year-old logging onto Fictionalley in 2004: “What a lovely day. Let me check to see if my favorite fics have updated, and then maybe I’ll stop by the HMS Pumpkin Pie and leave a comment with lots of exclamation points.”
In the background: ~All this shit~
Definitely a moment in time
Haha. I was in college when the Johnlock stuff was happening. I only watched Sherlock because of this girl I liked but I thought this show sucks and they’ll never have the balls to put John and Sherlock in a gay relationship. I had no idea of the the conflict in forums that put World War I to shame was going on over what I thought was pretty obvious. Fandoms are crazy yo. I feel bad for them.
@@jamiekamihachi3135 I was also in college. I had been a big fan for the first two seasons, but lost interest during season three. It was years before I came across a reference to the Apple Tree Yard conspiracy online, and stared in astonishment at the complete dumpster fire I'd avoided.
if it makes you feel older, i was at most 1 year old when this shit happened and now im in college
This comment made me laugh out loud, which I needed, so thank you.
An underrated part of this story is sharing all of the ridiculous early 2000’s usernames
*s to len co ck*
@@alpacinosshoelifts *lmaoo 😂😂*
it's like a modern warfare 2 lobby but for harry potter and everyone knows what kidney stones are
better yet, *the profile pictures*
wtf is a fermatojam?!
I love that Mortal Instruments being a rework of harry potter incest fanfic is somehow not the most interesting thing in this video
I hate myself for liking that series now lmao-
Problematic Loser I quit after book 4 came out when I was in high school and they started the Jace is vulnerable to demon possession and is going to hurt Clary (also oh god. Cassandra Clare. Clary. Wtf). Did it get any better?
@@noisykrickett7758 I guess? Not really though- it was okay to my dumb freshman brain-
I remember seeing a post on Tumblr that said CC was problematic and I was like, yeah the Clary/Jace thing was pretty weird. This? I did not expect all this.
@@noisykrickett7758 In my opinion, the first 3 were a good enough read, the 4th book was passable but the clear sign that this should've ended on the 3rd, I couldnt get through the 5th, and the 6th (I looked up the plot) was laughable and I'm kinda glad I didn't read it
I sincerely hope that Angua is now working as an investigative journalist somewhere. The fact that she spent years quietly following and gathering evidence on these idiots even though no one believed her is god damn inspiring!
In retrospective, it's actually kinda funny
MsScribe didn't do anything revolutionary nor unique. She was just a sock puppeteer.
What actually saved her was the fact that the internet was incredibly young, gullible and innocent at the time.
Everyone had the "You think someone would do that? Go into the internet and tell lies?" mentality.
It took one person preparing a thermonuclear clapping so bad that she couldn't defend against it and everyone actually believed it for once.
Like, even when it came to arguments, her arguments were all flawed and incredibly flimsy.
It takes a person with an IQ above room temperature to figure it out
Think a lot of it was how tight-knit the community was: back then forums in general and especially in the nishe of HP fanfics, the communities were just way smaller and in a sense more dedicated as the internet as a whole wasn't as all consuming as it is now. You see that throghout the video with the extreme amount of tribalism between forums, where for many users what site they went to was a fundamental part of their online persona.
So the idea that somebody would cynically exploit the goodwill of "their own" in such a manner (what makes MsScribe unique is that she ran the ruse from the day she made her account with her "fangirls"), was I think somewhat understandably completely alien to users.
And that person still had to send that thermonuclear clapping and be ignored like three times before it did them any good
The Internet in the 2000s and early 2010s was basically the Wild West, for better or worse.
I'm just a few mins in, but already find it highly ironic that all this started on a site called Harry Potter for Grown Ups
I think phrasing it as "for adults" has a very specific connotation
The internet's still the internet.
Honestly, with the exception of Voltron fandom, adults have by and large been the worst assholes in any given fandom I’ve been apart of.
Nobody is more childish than adults.
Indeed...because they've had more practice at it
so what i'm hearing is that a bunch of *adults* decided to beef like 13 year old girls over *shipping* and managed to create some WW3 level web of lies about *fanfiction*. and now one of them is a published author. i swear man fandom never ceases to amaze me
i mean. afawk only one of them spun a web of lies. so silver lining and all that
A published author with not only 27 books under her belt but also a shitty movie based off her books and an alright tv show that lasted three fucking seasons
So what you're saying is that human nature never changes?
Yeah...it’s fun! :D
Yep... And it's all repeating on places like Twitter with the Supernatural fandom now. I was around for this shit the first time, so 2nd time is not an improvement. Whole video's worth of comments and content got me havin' some sort of double-relatability moment. The shipping comes in, then people lose their minds; 3 eps to go, and Dean is DEFINITELY not going to be confirmed canonically Bi-sex or with either of his partners (re:bestfriend/brothers) romantically... I await the inevitable implosion (of the SPN fandom).
“Apologise for this”
“Ok we apologise, but we also don’t think this was us.”
“Fuck you we dont accept your apology.”
God everyone in this story makes me mad
The pig and mud analogy was flawed too! The accuser is the one who has to provide sufficient evidence of the crime. Like it’s pretty obvious if I was rolling around with pigs or just got splashed while passing by; the amount of mud should prove me innocent!
I also rolled my eyes SOOOO hard at how Ebony described Gryffindor Tower as a “corporation” when this a relatively private Harry Potter fanfiction hosting website.
Also, her initial sentence was wrong too. It wasn't actually proven that she was part of the "corporation" in this analogy. They DENOUNCED her. Which goes to show they didn't associate with her or her views. But I guess that wasn't enough either??? There was no winning that interaction tbh
She also said something along the lines of "when a corpotation's worker does X, the corporation has to apologize on their behalf" - except they weren't a corporation, and it wasn't one of their workers. They were just a fanfiction site with no real power, and this was a random user who logged on maybe once before being kicked out. This was 100% not their responsibility, not their pigs and not their mud.
I'm still flabbergasted that Cassandra Clare railed against material she found morally rephrensible, while she and her friends proudly owned that they wrote stuff that could also be considered immoral.
She based an entire novel trilogy about one of the most reprehensible characters in the franchise. I'm not surprised.
@@Tareltonlives Tessa?
For some reason the people who cry loudest in shipping wars are always into _weird_ shit 💀
These people tend to be synonymous with hypocrisy.
To say nothing of her more successful series having incest plotlines
The funniest part of this whole thing is the fact that so many people thought Cassandra Clare could write
Fifty Shades of Grey started off as HP fanfiction, it's a powerful fandom with incredibly low standards of writing. It doesn't take much to impress them but once you do you're set.
@@hairypancake I thought it starter as twilight fanfiction?
@@ViviUtra It was a Twilight fanfic. I guess the point still stands that standards of writing in both fandoms is pretty low.
I knew there was a reason I could get into the books
@@ViviUtra You might be right.
Ebony Thomas taught high school. Msscribe was involved with Delaware schools. Heidi was a lawyer. That hits me hard. These people were professionals and in their spare time they did....this. I love it.
Thinking about it more, I would be weirded out to be a teenager whose teacher wrote (and defended with vitriol) fiction about characters my age having sex and incest sex with one another. Creepy.
and now she teaches at pennstate though the way she speaks is very in line with modern academia
honestly id get if these were tweens/teens arguing, hell even 19 or 20 year olds with nothing else to do. but these were adults. with full time jobs. and CHILDREN. and they were fighting over fanfic archives and incest fic
@@iwakeupandboomimarat not to mention ebony and msscribe were in charge of children at this point
And Cassandra Clare is out there just doing her....thing
"he's msscribe, she's msscribe, you're msscribe-I'M MSSCRIBE! are there any other msscribes i should know about?"
KilliganHasHope: meow
@@elevate07 i’m outta here.
@@heyitzmae 😆
"How many assholes we got on this ship anyway?"
*Msscribe and all her sock puppets are outed*
"Great, I knew it--I'm surrounded by assholes!"
My self esteem improved drastically in the last hour and five minutes.
Not even 11 mins in and I already feel way better about myself
Same. I may be into certain books and shows as an adult, but I'm not "create an inner circle of underage fanfiction porn writers and watch the world burn" into them. Although now I fear there may be some shadowy internet cabal worshipping the crappy fanfiction I wrote as a teenager around this time.
Fakan
Oh no no, the vast majority of the people involved in this were adults. Certainly most of the fanfic authors were.
@@jacade5898 0pppppppppppppppppppppppppp0
Honestly watching a thirtysomething woman from the mid-aughts Talented Mr. Ripley herself to the summit of the Harry Potter slashfic world through the power of And Everybody Clapped and bigoted sockpuppets has legitimately inspired me to use the meager skills at my own disposal in pursuit of my dreams
I thought the Harry Potter Fandom’s biggest con artist was J. K. Rowling.
No, she's a hack. Msscribe is a con artist. They're completely different.
Michael O'Connor I dunno, she conned the entire fanbase into thinking that she’s a good writer, and a good person.
@@theoneandonlymichaelmccormick I'll agree with the second one, but her work speaks for itself. It's not garbage, but it is not the great work of art it is treated as.
Michael O'Connor Yeah, the truth is that the Harry Potter franchise isn’t some transcendent work. It struck a cord with audiences, (many of them children and people with children), and Rowling was just barely good enough a writer to express that story somewhat compellingly.
Whatever she wrote isn’t remotely good enough to make her deserve the benefit of the doubt, or make the work capable of being discussed without her authorship as context.
Granted,
that goes with any piece of art.
DAMN SON
It's so weird to imagine that MsScribe is probabaly in her 50s now. Some lady who is almost old enough to be someone's grandparent was at some point the center of legendary fandom cringe. It makes me think about all of the people who are stirring Internet scandals now and realize that these people are going to be middle aged one day.
I mean that's how it works. People age.
@@SDoesNotKnow but we don’t really think about it
She looks at least 50-60 judging by her picture.
This video gives you all the keywords to find her.
This is why I love the internet, you can be the talk of the town but then nobody in the real world would care. It’s like pseudo-anarchy.
I'm still stuck on the fact that Cassandra Clare named her multimillion dollar book series after her Ron/Genny incest fic from 2004
IKR? God, if I ever get a novel published then I'm going try to name it after the A/B/O Zutara smut fic I wrote in college for $50.
She didn't "name it after" it, she just switched out some character names and published the fanfic.
@@Laeiryn really? Because I’ve read those books and now I’m trying to understand how shadowhunters fit into a Harry Potter world.
@@Laeiryn in that series, the protagonist does kiss her brother twice unknowingly (technically only once because one of them turned out to not be her brother), so I can believe that.
i physically couldn't name any published stories off a fanfiction of mine(my fanfictions don't have names because they're just daydreams and AUs for roleplays) but i'm DEFINITELY going to name the story of a shapeshifter (with the ability of changing his whole appareance) messing with others after Msscribe holy shit.
i think "internet archeology of very niche fandom drama" might be my favorite genre of video essay
underrated comment holy shit
Same!
Same, I wish there were more vids like these
@@PopChanx *Sarah Z has entered the chat*
@@superlolgal555 I've watched all of her videos at this point (more than once... otl)
Maybe the real Msscribe were the friends we made along the way
All of whom were also sockpuppets
AH FUCK she was them too?
I hate that I audibly laughed at this
Coming back to this, one of the things that makes me really sad is the realization that Ms. Scribe had to grab some poor Rando’s (admittedly rather unflattering, I’m sure she’s a lovely gal but no one looks good in that particular setup) photos off the internet to lend credence/cannon fodder for the Pottersginny sock puppet account, and now I feel really bad for whoever those pictures actually belonged to???
She probably never even knew that her likeness was being used to voice hateful opinions she may very well not have actually had (at least, I hope she didn’t), as well as having her likeness actively mocked by strangers on the internet who had nothing to do with her actual life??? The pictures aren’t great, but no one looks good in old glamour shots really, and whoever she is I hope she never suffered any weird residual harm or drama from the use of her photo in this way. :(
I just hope no one ever found the real person.
Sadly it wasn't till the 90s that interracial marriage passed the 50% public acceptance mark, so it really is a coin flip whether said lady would agree or not
One day idle curiosity got better of me and I found Msscribe's real name and then-current job... Let's just say she probably had access to pro-level image editing tools and unwatermarked stock photo collections her whole career. Which opens a weird possibility that whoever was in those photos, _actually was a legit model,_ doing some kind of "stock average white woman" shoot plus some unflattering photoshop...
@@nebufabuWhat is her job anyway??
@@user-jx1ez1uk6q I didn't dig deep or anything, and the internet being what it is, I don't want to accidentally dogpile someone who just happens to have the same name (not common but not that unusual either) and lives in Delaware.
I think Heidi knew the moment she read Anguas's lengthy email, that Angua was not only on to something, but spot on right.
And her strategy was , to stick her head into the sand and ignore everything, since no one at the time would believe Angua. Heidi knew that, and probably hoped it would just go away.
As a person and especially as a lawyer, that was a more than disappointing display of character.
Playing devils advocate: Heidi was in a vastly different position from Angua with regards to the what MsScribe was to her. To her it wasn’t some stranger, it was a woman she spent a lot of time online with and even met and hung out with irl.
Facing that some person you know manipulated you into liking her and keeping the act up even when interacting with you to your face is a pretty shit thing to experience.
I think you're both right.
yeah from Heidi’s later fandom activities, she’s 1000% a shady bitch
@@zawrator4457 It might be a mixture of both. Personally though, I think Heidi, like the rest of the Inner Circle, probably just saw herself as so above it all and was so sure of herself that she didn't even feel the need to look at the evidence, probably just seeing it as annoying spam.
What I wouldn’t do for a documentary style TV series on all the early 2000’s fandom bullshit
I wanna see one of like peek golden fanfiction.net days before the flagging apocalypse lol
i wanna see cassandra clare have to talk to people about fanfic
As someone who joined fandom in later years and is therefore mostly oblivious to the details of a lot of this stuff, I'd watch that. Make an episode about the LiveJournal purge and the rise of Ao3
Ken Burns' The Ship War. I'd watch the hell out of that.
@@Malkmusianful I want to see her talk about her blatant plagiarism!
I struggle not to imagine Angua, who is probably now a woman in her 40’s+, as a hard boiled detective, working through the nights in a black and white jazz fueled city to uncover the truth about what’s really going on in the community of completely grown adult fans surrounding a book written for British Children.
And also she's a werewolf. Just in addition.
If that’s what you’re into then the HIVLiving video that followed this one - or as I like to think of it “Hamilton fandom Chinatown” - must be a real delight
Thomas Carrion
Read "Feet of Clay" by Terry Pratchett
It's third in a series, after "Guards, Guards!" And "Men At Arms", but FoC has Angua doing the most detective work. She's introduced in MaA, but that has less focus on her because she's a rookie.
She even has her own dark and shady past that connects to the case!
Was the exposé officially confirmed to be written by Angua? According the FandomLore wiki, many users suspected that another fellow fanfic writer called Carlanime wrote the exposé, with help other ppl in the fandom.
Angua is still around on Livejournal apparently, not quite as active obviously, but she does post every few couple of months or so.
biggest plottwist: MsScribe wrote My Immortal
Insane
@@turtleanton6539 yeah. I'm not saying it ACTUALLY happened, but would be crazy right?
Holy shit, why didn't we think of this
The thing that's so interesting about how they hated Gryffindor Tower is that like, GT couldn't have done any more to not be present in the Fiction Alley group/ Msscribe's lives. They had a totally different website, were not really part of Harry Potter for Grown Ups, didn't want to be part of Nimbus 2000 etc.
Unlike now where because of there being fewer sites you might come across pairings you don't like it seems to have been so easy then to simply not interact with this group.
And yet msscribe still decided they were her arch nemesis and needed to be destroyed...
That's what I was thinking. They could not have bothered them LESS but simply existing was sin enough.
From my experience, the internet was often viewed by adults as THEIR space with kids intruding by coming from their "kiddie sites" and ruining it for them.
I was 13 when the internet came out and was told often to "go back to my kiddie sites if I didn't like it" on a lot of forums by adults.
@@DiscoTimelordASD"Snot nosed minors should not be in my nsfw strip club adult space REEEEEEE" and then the space in question is a fandom of something targeted towards minors.
@@yoshitheorbit1118A fandom is collection of spaces, not one giant space that is intended only for its target demographic. Kids should not wander into the spaces the adults in the fandom have carved out for themselves.
@@Troublethecatmaybe the adults should be actively working to make sure the children who the piece of media is targeting don't wander into their spaces. exactly like how gt had password locks on their nsfw fic
I swear the interactions people have inside internet subcultures could be studied by political scientists and game theorists for decades to come. The level of cultural nuance these groups develop, the issues of identity and tribalism they breed, is nowhere so well document as it is in these enclaves.
This is so true. This is the first time I here of this Ms.Scribe drama, but as a teenager I used to be in a fanfic community for the Hunger Games Trilogy (I know). Given the nature of the books, there wasn't a lot of sexy stuff going on in the fanfics, if any at all. But in the community, specifically in our group of around 70 members at its peak, there was still a lot of unnecessary drama going on. Like, a lot. In many ways similar to what was described in the video. I thought that was due to the fact that we were all angsty immature teenagers... Who would've thought "Grown Ups" could be even pettier than we were.
I used to be part of a 'style archetypes' (sigh, long story) community. I had to leave because of how toxic it was becoming. The drama, ugh.
they are
Honestly it’s fascinating, I would kill for more coverage of old documented internet drama and history
The way the communnity of spacebattles kills any writing with creative ideas (fanfictio or not) is incredible
The real plot twist is that _you_ are Ms. Scribe.
Maybe the real Msscribe was the friends we made along the way.
Everyone is msscribe cake
Ava Catherine god damn it I was about the comment this 😂
I mean I wasn’t even born yet but I’ll take it
Hagrid was actually MsScribe but it wasn’t relevant to Harry’s story.
I imagine it WAS hard to find someone close to Msscribe to turn on her seeing as half of the people close to her apparently WERE her.
The Pottersginny thing is especially hilarious months later after the My Immortal video by Sarah Z where she did a deep dive and discovered there is in fact a huge harry potter bible crossover fandom, many devout christians who love harry potter (and often write about him being converted), and that there's just bible fanfiction in general
Weren't the devout Christians who love HP just one guy with 20-something alts? Also, the conversions were in Percy Jackson fic
@@Justice237 so does that mean they're all killiganhashope/Pottersginny and therefore MsScribe the entire time?
I mean at least the first book is on the Vatican's list of reccomended fiction. While the Vatican is as far away from American evangelists as Christianity can get, there's plenty of messages in Harry Potter that align with Christian believes and it's not unlikely that a devout Christian would gravitate towards those aspects, even if they had a problem with the portrayal of witchcraft. And fixing the one aspect you don't agree with of something you otherwise enjoy is like half of fanfiction, so it's not as absurd as it seems.
@@Ludwig_Perpenhente MsScribe is Toby???
@@Vizivirag I don't know! Maybe YOU'RE MsScribe
"The shadow of Jeff the wife guy looms large over everything" I'm cryin
Honestly all these "Keep this in mind later" feels like a point and click adventure game where you add stuff to your inventory that will only become relevant once you've forgotten where you got it from.
It's almost like a telltale game where after something major happens, it goes "[character] will remember this.".
@@FizzleCosmos I wonder if it would be better or worse for enjoyment of those games to write down every sentence that causes a "blank will remember this" prompt
Angua will remember this.
everything about this felt like an ace attorney game where whenever some random little info is mentioned the game goes "(insert bullshit item) added to the court record" and you're there just sighing to yourself.
I keep thinking "It's a surprise tool to help us later."
“You think msscribe is fandom scruples?”
“Yes, and I’m tired of pretending she’s not”
The way Heidi was so dismissive of the first attempts at factually exposing msscribe makes me wonder about her position as a lawyer. lol
She's still a lawyer with an active twitter profile under her real name. Apparently, she focuses on IP and copyright law with a focus on fandom issues, which, yeah, tracks.
@@Vohalika I wonder if she was involved with any of the alpha and omega lawsuit stuff with that one het-omegaverse author
@@lunagale1573 No, she wasn’t. (We’re mutuals on twitter. Which is weird since I always found her behavior reprehensible back in the day lol.)
@@scoutz0rs Are you okay with it now?
A lawyer being shitty? You don't say
“Giving plus-size models a bad name”
I feel like this entire story gives everyone a bad name.
This is why aliens won’t speak to us
@@crissy4445 none of us humans are going to heaven since there's a million aliens cooler than us. If you get the joke 10 points to whatever HP house your in ;)
I think they do that well enough on their own lmao
Msscribe gives scribes a bad name
Everyone but the wifeguys! Undefeated!
I think the wildest part of this is that like all these people had kids. Imagine being Msscribe’s kid and your mom is part of fandom legend
if you know Msscribe's full name it's easy to find her public social media profile. she recently posted a lengthy callout article accusing someone she knows irl (and that person's group of white mom friends) of racist micro-aggressions against her, complete with text message screenshots that the accused claims have been doctored. the post has 157 comments and 18 shares. people never change. i'm sure her kids are well aware that their mom is a psycho.
Judessa Anna Gonzales
Pottersginny was one of Msscribe’s confirmed sock puppet accounts, yes.
I’ve seen photographs of MsScribe and I don’t believe that she’s lying about being biracial. I know plenty of very pale and white passing mixed people.
Compared to many actual race faking drama llamas, MsScribe was relatively subtle about it and didn’t bring it up constantly, as opposed to her hatred of Harry/Ginny lol.
@@dramatictrauma331 Yes, I'm mixed & totally white passing, & it's pretty common. Even among celebs you see women who are 50/50 mixed can look like Rashida Jones. I believe Msscribe is mixed but tbh it's unlikely that she's experiencing microaggressions from the other moms who prob think she's white
Fun fact: I’m friends with one of Heidi’s kids, so this video was extremely weird to watch. She’s very nice in person!
@@scarlet8078 Logic the rapper an example too, he looks passing and state his biracialness every chance he gets.
i gotta say as an 18 year-old who has been on the internet long enough to see Steven Universe and FNAF make their debuts its very bizarre to see that fandom drama to this intensity has been around since i was in the fucking womb
The best part is, compared to modern internet drama, this is actually pretty mild. It's just the sheer absurdity of it pushing it up there as Legends
Still kind of funny that fermatojam called smut writers anti-american. Harry Potter is a British story xD
I waited so long for this comment lol thank you
I also came here to say this but wanted to make sure no one else had already done so.
Lol
The fact that a bunch of grown adults had an internet war based on Harry Potter fanfiction is hilarious
May I humbly suggest you cover the debacle of the tumblr fanfic author who pretended to be a pair of HIV positive POC lesbians in order to write their hamiliton fanfic
holy shit i remember that
Oh my god that would be amazing
why did all the dumb shit happen when I left Tumblr in 2015
th,,,,the what????
Why would those two things ever need to be related?
Honestly, one of the saddest things about this is that every time she trolled, she mashed together genuine issues in fandom (predators, pedophilia, the normalization of abuse, etc) with obviously horrible sentiments (homophobia, racism, etc), and that meant that you couldn't even say 'hey maybe they have a point about the CP' without siding with a homophobic racist. Predators in fandom spaces is SUCH a big issue, ESPECIALLY in the Harry Potter community (I swear, every single one of my friends and I were preyed on by a HP fan smh), and I hate that people intentionally lump it together with actually bad things to make it seem ridiculous.
But that's the thing, in the early 2000's, those really WEREN'T actual concerns. When she was posing as this religious fundamentalist, she wasn't saying "Hey, we're writing bad stuff and we know it, but we don't care": instead, she was parroting the way these people would talk at the time, using things that could be potential concerns as excuses to push forward a bigoted agenda. When people said "paedophiles" they didn't mean ACTUAL paedophiles, but LGBT+ people, you know, the whole "'Won't somebody please think of the children!" thing. So of course, people automatically ignored such claims BECAUSE they were ridiculous, and not concerned with children *at all*. You couldn't bring up valid points because it wasn't the right place/moment to bring them. On top of that, we're talking about the early 2000s, where only one or two films were out (so the bulk of the fandom came from the books) and actual kids wouldn't have access to these sites anyway as they weren't widespread or easy to find (so again, the predator thing was a non-concern, at least, NOT like it is right now, as people acknowledged that fandom spaces at the time were adult spaces and minors would not disclose their real ages if they were somehow accessing them).
As valid as your concerns may be, you can't extrapolate the state of todays internet/fandom to past fandom, because both were completely different places with different dynamics.
Fiction is not reality. Writing bad things is not "notmalizing"
@@LynnHermione Writing detailed fics focused around themes like pedophilia, abuse, and rape while not posing them as bad things and instead romanticizing them is normalizing them, my dude. Lolita vs a RPF of actual child actors type beat. Same reason everyone hated 10 Reasons Why or whatever it was.
@@Siocpa yeah, I'm totally looking at it from a new internet POV. I hadn't even considered early 2000s culture and ideals :^/ disheartening but also wow we've come a ways.
@@Siocpa I was in past Fandom - pedophilia and grooming were an actual issue and quite frankly, writing porn about minors is reprehensible regardless. We were there, but at the time the Fandom zeitgeist just didn’t care about such things. Morality and self-awareness was unimportant.
You'll never convince me that the rest of the inner circle, including Cassie Claire, weren't in on this the entire time. They covered their own asses when it fell apart.
My thoughts as well. I’m sure they wanted to pretend afterwards that Msscribe duped and hurt them just as much as she had hurt the rest of the fandom.
It's hilarious how obvious some of these trolls were. "I AM RACIST AND HATE INTERRACIAL PEOPLE. OH AND I LOVE THE RIVAL FANFICTION SITE SHE HATES"
Reminds me of this one time on Tumblr someone tried to send themselves anon hate only they forgot to hit the post anonymously button lol
To be fair at the time the concept of trolling was in its infancy
@Genny Baratta I just vividly flashed back to the “maniacally laughing Ed from Cowboy Bebop” gif they used in response to their own accidentally-not-anonymous anon hate and got to savor this MVP moment of internet history like it was the first time again, so thank you for that
@@Champiness You got a link to that?
@@Champiness I'm sorry I am not familiar with how tumblr works nor do I think I understand its interface. Would you mind telling me what is going on in that link you shared? I am not trying to troll you or anything, I legitimately am confused and want to understand what's in it.
“Cassandra Claire wrote Ron/Ginny incest” SHE WHAT
It carried over to the actual Mortal Instruments series, though the incest there turns out not to be incest. But keep in mind that only gets revealed in the second book. Before that, the romance between the two leads who at the time thought they're actually siblings are still weirdly sexual. Even putting it in context of they're actually not related at all, it's still weird.
@@Tamaki742 There are probably genetic things that make people who are closely related unlikely to be attracted to each other even if they don't know they're related at all, but it does happen. What really doesn't happen is children who grow up identifying as siblings becoming attracted to each other. Retconning them to not actually be related doesn't fix the ick factor at all.
@@adde9506 Yeah at the end of the first book, it's more of the case where they were told that they have the same father. So they never grew up together and it's the same case with people who only found out later that they're first or second cousins in the relationship. But come on, if I found out my hypothetical boyfriend is actually one of my parent's son from the previous marriage, pretty sure mutual understanding breakup is almost instant. It just still feels weird that this is Clare's idea of a tension in relationship, like characters now knowing that they're apparently siblings still want to kiss each other, then conveniently it turns out they're not.
@@Tamaki742 I suppose in real life it would come down to how significant your relationship was and if children were a concern. In a book, there's really no excuse for it unless a commentary on incest is the point. If she was really using it as a form of romantic tension, it's still wacked out. And probably says something really uncomfortable about her real life. I guess that's sad, but I'd have more sympathy if she'd written that book instead of plagiarizing. Or maybe she's stoked about it and I'm still glad I didn't read her book.
BTW, lifting chunks of her own fanfiction to write her own book isn't plagiarism, it's just lazy. She plagiarized someone else.
Just to be clear (though I’m not defending her bullshit like damn Cass get it together): TMI was based on the earlier Draco fic (can’t remember the name sorry) NOT the incest fic by the same name as TMI.
She’s still like sus as hell tho and as much as I enjoyed TMI and TID (haven’t read the third set) it’s absolutely whack that Cass was writing incest fic before that.
So you’re telling me that I bought like seven books from an author who used to write incest HP smut about 14 year olds ...... bruh
Bruh indeed
I mean, you bought reworked plagiarized HP fanfiction with incest in it, but yeah.
Also probably a good guess to say your purchased the Harry Potter fanfiction, because she literally used the name and plot from her fanfiction days.
She was El James before El James
I know. I have her Mortal Instruments series and 2 books from a different series and I can't even look at them without thinking of this video. I only ever read the first Mortal Instruments book but I don't think I'll be revisiting those for a long time :/
And half the dialogue is stolen from shows like Buffy.
I wonder how Cassandra Claire and her friends reacted when Harry x Ginny became canon....
Mortal instruments is her Ginny/Ron incest fic renamed...
I lowkey forgot this all happened between the 4th and 5th books, and I just assumed they already knew Hinny was canon and just hated it
I would pay good money to see their reactions.
They must be crying harder then their little toddlers and these toddlers are doing the parents job of comforting these grown ass adults.
@@darkwitnesslxx I'm going to have to track down that fic, because while I can see how the romantic plotline could have been recycled, the rest of the story and world building wouldn't fit into HP without serious remodeling.
And if you're changing vast swaths of your story from fanfic to publishing, then you're not really deserving of being put in the same area as 50 shades, which was legitimately a twilight fanfic with the serial numbers filed off.
Literally the only thing that has EVER happened in Delaware
Fucking hell, imagine being Delaware and your claims to fame are being the first state, and being ground zero of an epic tale of batshit fandom warfare that defined the old HP Livejournal shipping trench warfare of the early 00s.
@@Thagesthoughts you can't just not include the Christians who strictly ship Harry and Ginny
ngl it took me a hot second longer than it should have to remember Delaware is a state in the US.
@@pixelsuperhero fr the way i immediately thought "what state is that town in?"
Me living in Delaware: 🤧🤧
I have to applaud that patience Angua must have had for not only compiling that mountain of evidence and organizing this whole conspiracy into a coherent timeline like she was taking down Jeffery Epstein BUT ALSO not getting discouraged when she was ignored over and over again and waiting for the perfect moment to drive her sword into the heart of the dragon. She was either running on a firm dedication to justice or the purest spite ever forged in a human soul.
She honestly sounds incredible and I am so glad people like her exist.
Gentleman Vaultboy spite I vote spite
I think Angua had a few things going for her: she wasn't involved in any of the websites or cliques, so she was just an outsider and able to see that everyone was acting stupid. Then when no one listened to her she got spiteful and kept compiling evidence lol.
What if Angua *is* Msscribe
I would done it out of spite. Spite is a powerful motivator
What I find bizarre is how Msscribe made all those 'witty retorts' about Pottersginny's supposed weight to try and gain the favour of Cassandra Claire, who is not a small woman by any means. And that it at least partially worked!
i hate to say it but, sometimes, bigger people are happy to jump on making fun of other fat people (usually those they perceive to be bigger than them) as a way to placate their own insecurities. at least they aren’t “that big” or at least they “are realistic about their bodies”, etc etc. i know this because i’m a bigger person and i used to do these things i saw others do it as well.
@@shakeybakey5849Unfortunately this is my aunt since she got her gastric bypass and lost weight. She keeps making nasty comments about fat people like she didn't use to be fatter than them.
@@shakeybakey5849hey friend !!
your input is extremely true and is most likely what the lizzo situation is this year
Huh, I just realized msscribe accused someone of pretending to have cancer when she herself faked hospital visits.
The lady doth protest too much me thinks
The fact that they thought remus/sirius was going to be canon is both hilarious and sad when you know how the franchise is now...
Seeing as Rowling wrote that Remus and Sirius “embraced like brothers”, it’s pretty clear they were never going to be canon. These people are weird.
@@khfan4life365 rowling used werewolfs in the series as a metaphor for hiv/aids, at a time when a lot of people still thought it was something that mainly/only affected gay/bi men so
@@khfan4life365 You, sir, don't know about incest litterature
Macaroons the sequel From what I remember, that’s highly misunderstood. JK Rowling never directly said she intended for Remus to be an AIDS allegory. She rather said it was an allegory for diseases with a stigma, particularly blood ones, and gave AIDS as an example of one. And this was something she revealed 15 years after the events of this video. I’m guessing she wrote it as a vague metaphor for health conditions with a stigma and mentioned AIDS as the example because she noticed fans had already started to make that connection.
@@iwakeupandboomimarat I hate the werewolves being metaphors for aids since it makes the situation of Greyback biting a young Lupin and then transfering the "werewolf sickness" basically a metaphor for child rape which is soooo fucked.
Man that “faking minority status for clout” joke really hits different after watching the newest when posting goes wrong
i thought it was that tumblr thing
It was foreshadowing all along.
CJCroen1393 always has been.
I just watched that video lmao
@@moviestargf Remember half of that is conservative and fascist trolls trying to make vaguely progressive movements look bad.
Minerva: *repeatedly hints at Msscribe being a puppeteer*
me, born in 2000 with no recollection of this era of the internet: wow this story is so enthralling. where could any of these intricate details possibly go next
Minerva: Msscribe was a puppeteer
me: *surprised pikachu*
"Wizards for Bush" is one of the funniest things I've ever heard.
Thank god for ao3, I can just post my fics and go
That was the whole point of AO3, actually! They made it in response to strike through and other fandom drama as a safe space for writers where it would be harder to hang up on writers for posting things you don't like. It was really based on the ship and let ship school of thought! 😃
plot twist: msscribe is Rachel dolezal
Not if you live in China 8D
IceQueen975 Isn’t AO3 where Chinese writers post to evade censorship? If so, then it is indeed a safe space for those people.
@@rubyy.7374 It was it's banned in China rn
"After all this, it's hard to see how things could get worse for Gryffindor Tower. *sting* A few days later, things got worse for Gryffindor Tower." I ALMOST DIED
When I tell you I choked on air-
I love how they're all like "wow this is problematic" like they're not adults writting smut about teens.
_Never_ trust anyone obsessed with moral purity, especially not in fandoms. They're all guaranteed to be weird 😭
especially when the books where they were getting older weren't even out yet.
Literally everyone was a black pot here, but picking on the kettles is how they get popular with their particular ingroup lmao.
in light of your statement on tumblr about no longer continuing this series, i just wanted to pop in and say how much we all appreciate the work that went into these episodes. they're always fun to go back and re-watch and i hope that you find joy in whatever content you choose to continue producing on this channel.
Awh man, they're not?
@@LA-be8fu yeah i think she had to take down the hivliving post bc of extreme misinformation (dont know what specifically was wrong) and probably just didnt want to deal with that again
Just ship Ginny and Hermione, problem solved!
B-but that's forbidden love!
That’s what I did.
Ginny/Hermione: you think the best way to resolve a love triangle is by ignoring the axis
@gay korean Are you challenging us to write lesbian fan fiction? Because I'll do it, don't push me to the edge, man.
@gay korean me: *who writes gay ships aswsll as lesbian ships*... You sure about that?..
Honestly I think Angua9 is more impressive than Msscribe considering how much time and effort she put into uncovering the truth. She'd probably make a good Forensic Accountant
And the thing is, that is not the only thing that Angua was doing. She was also parsimoniously examining literally all the batshittery that came from the Harry/Hermione community post-OotP.
@@stefan4159 I wonder how much therapy she needed after that?
And she kept on insisting the truth be told, which takes a lot of perseverance on her part. Well done.
In all honesty, I wish she didn't bother telling these people it was all fake. They deserved to be trolled for how idiotic and pathetic they are
@@TheKnoxvicious i think angua was frustrated by everyone's stupidity too much and some of her own friends got pulled into the drama and she just wanted to defend them.
"the shadow of jeff the wife guy looms large over all of this" is my new favorite sentence
You think a woman that relished in that much drama just faded away?
Theory: she then wrote My Immortal
I mean think about it, it was written a year before her popularity fell apart, she knew what triggered people, she knew how to cause drama. Coincidence?
She wrote Mortal insttuments
double plot twist: J.K. Rowling, Msscribe and the author of My Immortal are all the same person. She only wrote Harry Potter in order to inspire the world's most infamous fandom drama.
@@sgunky That would be the biggest goddamn twist, my god.
@@turtleanton6539 That's Crissanda Claire, and weirdly enough she's not a sock puppet.
Please please do one of these on hivliving, the Hamilton high school AU girl who lied about being a Chinese-Pakistani trafficking survivor with HIV and it turned out to be an 18 year old white girl from the USA.
I am aware he’s done an episode on this now, I’ve watched it and it’s really good but you don’t need to tell me about it
HOLY SHIT I WAS JUST THINKING ABOUT HIVLIVING THAT WAS SO FUCKED
wasnt that also the person who had a wife who was also made up?
Kelly-Alec YES! There were two people she made up and I think she had sock puppets for them also??
I’m sorry the what now?
P A R D O N?
I need more tea on this.
I love how this barely even becomes about Harry Potter towards the end
It never was about HP; all about that sweet, sweet, absolutely worthless IRL internet clout!
Minerva's "Keep this in mind for later" is the equivalent of the Micky Mouse meme of "It's a surprise tool to help us later!"
this really goes to show not much has changed. i assumed tumblr drama about "anti shippers" vs "pro shippers" and canceling groups/blogs with callout posts was something new but it really has been going on for over a decade with just some slight changes huh
I would go as far as to say decades. Shipping predates the internet. Before there was fanfiction sites there were magazines for Fanfiction. Star Trek was one of the biggest for slash shipping.
to be fair proshippers vs antishippers havent had msscribe playing 4d chess with herself
@@TheSlipperyNUwUdle Literally. I fell down a rabbit hole of 70s and 80s Star Trek shipping drama recently and people were having almost the exact same arguments that they have nowadays, just through letter.
I was a part of this fandom when the msscribe drama went down. It's wild to me that this is still being discussed today - the internet truly never forgets. I was friends with Dionne (msscribe's real name), Cassie, Aja, and other "Big Name Fans," and I remember the "PottersGinny" drama well. You hit the nail on the head perfectly: we were all having too much fun to notice how fishy the story was. PottersGinny's "real life photo" should have been a dead giveaway on its own. One thing I can elaborate on is msscribe herself; I met her at Nimbus and she was funny and charismatic. She was known more for her big personality than she was her writing (which I never read). She took advantage of a fandom division that already existed between the "canon compliance" fans and the "lets write about Draco and Harry's unresolved sexual tension" fans, and fanned the flames expertly, making herself one of the primary victims as well as Cassie's white knight. I wasn't close enough to msscribe to feel truly betrayed by her actions, but others definitely were. To say nothing of the poor folks at GT who got vilified thanks to her lies.
I too came to the HP fandom as an adult, 21, pregnant with my first child, my younger sister recommended HP as I couldn't focus on the usual books I love to read. Of course I fell in love and of course I came to the series during the "long wait" between Goblet and Order. So I went online, Mugglenet. Mugglenet is a gateway drug that leads you to the fics elsewhere.
I am no nutty Christian, no moral aggrandizing twit, but finding the incest, adult on child fics almost killed the fandom for me, in any other form of literature children having non-consenting sex with adults in authority or incest would be frowned upon even a kink....Couldn't believe my eyes, returned to relative safety of Mugglenet as fast as my fingers could take me.
@@MichieHoward I think there should definitely be spaces for people who don't want to read certain kinds of fic (whether they object on religious principals or simply don't want to be triggered by certain content); I think there should also be spaces for those who want to explore darker and more taboo themes (AO3 serves this purpose well, and allows for very clear content warnings). For me, it's always been about the quality of writing that has directed my interest, more than the topics or themes.
Omg. Where you Reena? I used to love your fic so much. *waves*
Also, I'm someone you knew but I don't want to link this account with my old livejournal account. Cringe.
To be fair, the HP Livejournal shipping wars were like, the apex of Wild West early 00s internet trench warfare. msscribe is also a pretty useful case-in-point in how enough charisma and manipulation can make even the biggest pile of BS seem believable, a case I direct people to often when they wonder why con artists can be so successful despite what, in retrospect, seems like obvious BS.
I'm now convinced that every single dislike on this video is a Msscribe sockpuppet account.
I'm disliking this comment. And totally not because I'm a sock puppet >:(
Ruining the 666 like total-
"Zebra" has to be the absolute lamest racial "slur" I've ever heard. Legitimately not worth even slapping them back down.
sounds kid of cool, being a fancy ass stripy horse
@@k.morningstar7983
Honestly exactly. I'm not mixed race so I won't speak for anyone but it really doesnt have anything insulting about it. "You're a Zebra!!" "Um... cool?"
@@iamaunicorn1232 i am a mixed person and yeah i used to get “penguin” and “oreo” a lot. it gets annoying, but they’re definitely not slurs lmaoo. i agree, def not even worth slapping them back down haha
as a biracial person they're definitely not slurs but to most are considered derogatory in most situations regarding our race
Your horse-related username gives this a really funny double meaning 💀
Reminder that the people making these socks and getting into shipping wars and writing smut about children were fully grown adults. With children.
Imagine finding this video and realizing Ms. Scribe was your mom
And some of them were teachers. Imagine finding out that your child's teacher spends a large part of their spare time writing smut about children their age.
gotta do something with your time i guess.
Plot twist: msscribe is J.K. Rowling
Her writing was too good to be her lol
Double plot twist: you were gay all along, and you had sex with dumbledore
Triple plot twist: Dumbledore was a woman the whole time and had an intense relationship with Peter Pettigrew
@@aisforanimate4703 Quadruple plot twist: Peter Pettigrew and Voldemort were the real inspiration for 50 Shades of Grey. Only Voldemort was Ana, and Pettigrew was Christian, and Dumbledore used to watch. Voldemort feared Dumbledore so much cause he was scared he'd reveal his secret to the world.
@Evilmike42 The Dallas guy??
"F in the chat for canon compliance for that one."
I'M S O R R Y I JUST CHOKED ON MY FOOD
Agreed, especially it went sunk, as per later books indicated
If only Sugar Quill was created after Book 5 came out...
I would kill for us to still have the fandom wild west available. I wanna see sock puppets. I wanna sneak my way into a heirarchy of superfans. I wanna watch it all collapse. I was truly born in the wrong generation (the generation of people these books were the target audience for)
Same, watching this video inspires me to topple internet hierarchies and bend them to my whim
This still happens all the time unfortunately. It's just insulated
Oh this definitely still does happen! You just have to be in the right fandoms/websites to see it unfold. Tumblr still has that shit going on to this day. Now, instead of the drama being in book fandoms, it all takes place in show/music fandoms now.
indeed, indeed...
like Elixstrations said, I assure you that if you just go to the latest most popular board for the most popular cartoon show among teens and early 20-somethings you will have the EXACT same experience, point blank period! the only thing that has changed is the aesthetic around it all and the speed at which fandoms switch out.
Whenever I feel down, whenever I'm worried I'm not living up to my potential, whenever I think I'm not as good as I could be, I rewatch this vid and tell myself, "At least I'm not the kind of person that sends themselves fake racist hate mail to promote my Harry Potter fan-fics"
The fact that Cassandra Clare, one of the widest selling YA authors of our time, was in fandom wars over fanfiction as full grown woman will never fail to give me whiplash.
the pettiness of Ebony is almost more shocking; a woman who works in the professional world, demanding an apology on the level of a corporation like Starbucks from a fucking fan fiction forum, for a supposed member they can't even prove was active.
The fact that someone that awful a writer got published and her awful books were BESTSELLERS will never fail to give me whiplash.
@@k.morningstar7983 When I read that thing she wrote demanding an apology I was like girl it's a fucking children's book series and you're here writing the Declaration of independence or something
try it coming from the other direction, as someone actually in the fandom at the time and knowing that she stole (coughcough repurposed) most of the wittiest lines in her most popular fic from other sources. then to see her get published and become so popular after that and all of the other drama she'd been involved in.
@@BlueCyann She has always been loathsome
I can't believe how invested I am in Harry Potter fandom drama from 2003.
It extends way past that
I was 7. I knew nothing of Harry Potter (okay I might have seen the first two movies) and yet I’m still really invested
I wasn't even born in 2003 yet I'm really emotionally invested in this.
"Harry Potter would have been put to death." Yes, that is kind of the inciting incident for the series.
This is the spiritual prequel to Sarah Z’s My Immortal author video
An HOUR?!? We eatin good today boys.
Ohhh my goooooood. This is like tiger king for fanfic readers
If the subjects of the video don't eat it all first.
Looks like meat is back on the menu boys
No one:
Cassandra Claire:
"If harry has to hook up with a Weasley, I bloody hope it's Ron."
Its called being an icon
I mean, I’m not a fan of CC... but she’s right! 😂
Tum Tum That wasn’t what Rowling said at all, that’s just the misconception because some news article interviewing her wanted clout and used that as a headliner. In reality what she said was that she regretted putting Ron and Hermione together, that’s it. She had potentially also wanted to have Fred as Hermione’s love interest, and you can even see the seeds she tried to plant in the books. But she was wishy washy about it and ended up going with Ron. Which is fine, they are my otp. What gets on my nerves is Harry x Ginny since there was no actual interest on Harry’s part until the sixth book, which is the same book he dates her. That’s too quick, no buildup, no chemistry at all. He had more chemistry with Luna! And then there’s the fact that Ginny is a Weasley, the very family Harry feels an extreme attachment to. It’s feels like Harry would do anything to be a Weasley, and if that means dating a Weasley then he would do it. But Ron is a different story! Ron himself is Harry’s savior, he’s the person Harry is most himself with, the person who can bring all extreme emotions out of Harry, the person he “most missed”. Ron isn’t just a Weasley to Harry, but Ginny was just a Weasley for five whole books. In book five, when Hermione tells Ron that Ginny is no longer interested in Harry (which is a lie) , Harry says “ so THATS why she talks now!” And no one gets that it means Harry has absolutely no communication, no chemistry with her before.
Nothing is less funny or more nonsensical than the "No one:" memes.
BlueWhaleKing 669 people disagree :/
what I think is the best little detail is the fact those women who were more than happy to defend women's rights say (rightfully so) that they had right to sexual liberation were also more than happy to attack someone on their appearance, like, the lack of self-awareness is staggering
Isn’t it so wild that Cassandra named one of the villains in her books Imogen? It’s not a common name in the US, is it? I totally wouldn’t be surprised if this weird fandom drama was the inspiration
Wouldn't shock me. A lot of people have said her published books borrow quite a bit from her fanfics (not quite Filing Off the Serial Numbers, but you can see it from there) so I wouldn't be surprised if fandom drama also had bled over into her work.
The early 2000's Harry Potter fandom was truly the Wild West of fandom history
@Evilmike42 Mugglenet right? I remember that place. Weird, weird WEIRD place...
it seriously was. I was confused about how adults will act like this as well