Since I’ve been watching this channel, I’ve bought the Campfire Andromeda, Sony WH1000M5, Sony WR1000M4, RME ADI-2 Dac FS, Cambridge Audio CXN V2 and CXA81, Monitor Audio Gold 100s, Chord Qutest, Fyne Audio F1-5. Now it’s the SVS Micro 3000. John, you are costing me a fortune! 😜
I forgot the Beyerdynamic DT-1990 pro, Grado RS1x, the Lake People G111mk2 headphone amp, the Cambridge Audio Solo Phono preamp and the Sony Hi-Res ripping turntable.
6:30 ...re: filming glossy surfaces: Keep a mic stand (with boom mic attachment) and a piece of 1x1m black cloth from a fabric store. You can bend the boom mic stand 90 degrees so it has an arm sticking out, and tape the black cloth to it. Then you just move the mic stand around to block the reflection you're dealing with. Total cost: $30-40 Industry standard 1x1m black flag negative fill: $150-300
Remember that dialing in the bass is done for the listening position. As you move about the room, you will notice room modes with more and less bass. Multiple subwoofers can help. Bass is by far the hardest thing to manage in a setup. The 45 day SVS trial period was not long enough for me and I sent the two subs I purchased back because I wasn’t able to integrate them to my satisfaction during that period and I was concerned that I might never be able to do it. SVS paid for the return shipping and gave me a full refund. Best customer service ever. Great app as well.
@@johnsmith1474 You apparently dont know, room modes are a giant issue in small rooms and there's plenty of research on multi subwoofer setups and how to overcome issues with placement etc...
@@johnsmith1474 PROPERLY blended subwoofers into an existing system isn't a trivial matter. It's likely the single most daunting process an audio enthusiast can undertake. Yes, there's best practices, rules of thumb, etc etc... however PROPERLY blended sub/mains system can take a great deal of effort. I would think 45 days is plenty to determine to keep them for further optimization over time. That said, every room/loudspeaker interface is different, and everyone's level of proficiency is different... we're all at various places along our audio journey. Me, I'm in my sixth decade in all things audio... professionally and as an enthusiast. I'm still experiencing new things, new challenges, acoustic interactions balancing immersiveness and three dimensionality, with image clarity. My current obsession is bass texture... proper tactility and textural details without excessive energy is the goal. Again, I'm still encountering challenges I wasn't aware of... still discovering new avenues to explore greater optimization. Audio, done right, is one helluva thing.
@@FOH3663 intergrating my SVS SB 3000 (not the micro one) was the easy part..try getting a pair of Tannoy XT8F to sound sweet in an undersized room..the sub took a week or so...the Tannoys have taken 3+ years :)
@@davidryan5482perhaps your ears haven’t tuned themselves to the sound. Perhaps your system is sufficiently providing the sound you sought after. Otherwise try different EQ and sub placement. Finding where the bass is and is not are part of the process. From my understanding though a well implemented sub is one that you don’t notice. It fills the gap as if it was never there to begin with.
Great review JD ( your old mate, Richard from Melbourne here). I bought this same Sub about 3 months ago after mulling over the KEF and also the Rel T5/x. The app definitely swayed me as well as the price. It has fit into my system wonderfully and given my PMCs the deeper oomph they need. I love it. As far as tweaking my setup goes, I think I’m done. But also, great review and I just love how your reviews are more of an exploration and conversation built around the subject matter, rather than just a dry review. Love ya work! Rich.
I got the SVS micro because I have the prime wireless pro speakers and figured SVS would have tested the sub with their own gear. Placed it next to one of the speaker stands, fiddled with the app for an hour or two as I listened to music, and found a happy place. So yes, as you note,: A rank amateur can use the sub app to get a subjectively very good sound in an unintimidating way. The other thing is you can save a group of user settings so that you could have a setting for jazz, a setting for rock, a setting for dub etc.. Or save a few general settings and see how they sit with you over time.
I’m a pretty new HiFi dummy and when I started I purchased a SVS Micro to go with KEF ls50 W2, spent a week or so with it and couldn’t get it integrated well or sound good to me at all so it was returned. Tried a KC62 and it immediately fell into place for me and loved the sound. As much as I really didn’t want to spend the cash for the KEF, it was easy for me keep. A smarter person than I may have gotten the Micro to integrate well but since I couldn’t, the KEF was an easy choice to settle (splurge)on. The beauty of the KEF cabinet was also a plus.
How are you using Kc62 with your Metas ? Are you high passing the speakers or just using the low pass filter ? What about the location? I have Metas incoming and currently have Martin Logan sub but very curious about the integration of Kc62 with the Metas.
John, I have recently gone from 1 sub, to 2, to 4 subs in my 5m by 4m room. All SVS SB1000 pros. Only $500 US each. Same great software and features as the Micro3000. I can adjust and synch them all from my listening seat in moments. Each time I’ve added subs it has reduced peaks and troughs (great for solo and partner listening) and and also increased headroom. Beautifully integrates with my KEF LS50 Wireless II. Would love for you to explore using multiple subs. Love your reviews! You are the best at what you do!
Nice to see the Lyngdorf in the system. I have the MP-60-2.1 and once I ran the Room Perfect the bass response was the best I've ever heard in terms of deep, punchy bass. It really was a set it and forget it experience.
Darko, a well-done presentation. A word about bass that is "tighter' than another sub--- that is most often the result of the amplifier having a higher "Damping Factor". This is much less critical for mids & highs, but for bass it is a major factor. The diff between 800 or 1,000 watts in a home is really nothing, but DF is readily apparent. As the speaker cone returns to neutral (and beyond) after it's initial excursion, it generates a current back into the amp. When an amp has a high Damping Factor, this back & forth is mitigated.
I added the 3000 Micro in white to my system that has Parasound amp and pre, with the Node and Elac Reference speakers. I also use with VPI phono and in 3.1 surround when watching movies. I think it's fantastic in all three applications.
Thank you for this (brilliant) review! Most people do not live in acoustic-perfect rooms, and do not have perfect matching speaker/amp combinations; equalizers will do the trick! Very nice to see new build-in EQ solutions.
It's not only you who has 130Hz bump. It's almost everybody because of the typical room dimension (8'- 9' ceiling, 12-14' width). Yes, you need to invert RIR. Also, it would make lots of sense to have 2 subs and cross at 150... 200Hz because the main's mid-woofers produce a lot of IMD/ non-LTI distortions when they attempt to play f < 2*f0 > 70dBC.
Thank you - this is such a thoughtful consideration of the real factors when integrating a sub. It was tricky enough with my studio set up, but my downstairs listening room has vintage hifi bordering on antique in a relatively small and difficult room. Quirky set up, low tech, few controls, cramped space options, challenging environment. Helpful controls within the sub can be make or break in these real world situations! It's not about sonic specs alone...
Unfortunately my wife took one look at the SVS, and removed it from the candidate list immediately. Guess we're buying the KC62 regardless of cost. They could work on their designs for a better W.A.F., and I hope they do as they seem to be of great quality.
My kc62 came in the mail yesterday finally after having my metas for over a year drooling over the thought of more bass. Set it up directly in between my speakers, started off by putting the settings exactly how they are on this video and barely had to play around with it. If you have ls 50s just get a subwoofer for it. Definitely the most fun upgrade to my system
A real shame the SVS doesn't have high/speaker level inputs. Effectively rules it out for all of us integrated amp users without sub/preamp outputs. I use BK electronic subs. No DSP bells and whistles but all have speaker level inputs. REL are pretty good in that regard, too.
Not with the Micro 3000, but their slightly larger SB 1000 pro has both speaker level inputs and the app for EQ. Could be an option for those looking for a sub with both of those features
@@RennieAsh i called SVS and they suggested something like that. not sure how well it works in practice but i guess i could try and return the thing if it don't work.
superb video! I was looking into REL subs, which I enjoy their performance but the SVS won me over because I have 2 sets of speakers (listening and DJing) and not having to reach to the back everytime to adjust the settings is a gamechanger for people who have different pairs of speakers in a room...a very special case for sure.
Wow ... thank you very much for this video! I'm using the Powernode with the KEF LS 50 Meta and think of adding a sub for a while. First, I was afraid till very close to the end of the video. Then, you summed it up perfectly, gave me a perfect advise and you've taken my fears away. Thanks! And hopefully, everyone had happy holidays and will have a good start into the new year!
I highly recommend the Arendal 1961 1s. It's a larger but less expensive closed sub with a 12" speaker. It has dsp as well which you can control on the sub without an app though. I also really like the matte finish. It's only 900€ with free shipping and a 5 year warranty.
My KEF KC62 was amazingly easy to set-up and simply disappears---leaving a wonderfully deep & "location-less" bass sound. FYI: The KC62 is matched with a pair of KEF LS50 Metas. At a total investment of less than $3,000 USD, this combination may be the best cost-vs-performance high-end loud speaker system currently available. Highly recommended...
Running two KC62,s setup as stereo pair and couldn’t be happier with the sound and ease of setup and integration with my LS 50 wireless two’s. Using a Lumin T2 streamer as my source and have increased detail and soundstage with this addition. Lumin app is very good. Saving now for a amp and Focal Sopra 2’s.
The hard part for me in speaker and sub selection is two fold: 1) speakers/sub that my wife can hear but not look at and 2) things my young kids won't mess about with. Next home will have a dedicated listening room and the SVS 3000 micro is on my list of potential upgrades when the move happens.
Good conversation. The trick being how does it sound at the listening position when done I guess. The SVS approach is convenient but once dialed in not a thing likely to be used again.
You know that you are a Darko Audio fan when, as he introduces a video, you notice changes in his listening room. New kit other than what is being featured, new accessories, new plants, etc. Always a pleasure John. When I launch TH-cam my first thought is “I hope there is a new Darko Audio feature to watch”
I assume you're being funny, been looking more at the Samsung frame TV's. Thinking that, in the future, all TV's will have a separate box for all the power, inputs, and outputs.
Great Job John , The Kef is a huge plus for people who own Vintage Integrated amps and recievers that do not have rca preouts ! Hi-level input love it !
Such a great informative video. Every TH-camr should learn how to incorporate ads as you did. Didn't bother me at all. I currently have a 8" Kef Cube that just doesn't have the punch I need. Looking at the svs 3000 micro.
Hey John, I've put together the Bluesound with 2 SVS 3000 Micro and 2 Dali Rubicon 2. I have to say the 2.2 set up is quite amazing. Totally blows away a 2.1 set up. However I am still missing some output between 100-300Hz. I fear I may have to go to Lyndorf to resolve this issue. Keep up the good work!
This is almost the same setup i got back in May, the SVS 3000 micro, sonus faber lumina 2 but with a Audiolab 6000A play, and you are so right about the SVS app, its so easy to dail in when you can sit in your chair and adjust with your phone
I have an SVS 3000 Micro and I deal with the DSP delay by connecting it directly to my DAC's RCA output instead of my integrated amp line level or sub-woofer output (or a pre-amp output for those who have separates). My DAC has both an balanced XLR output (connected to my integrated amp) and also an RCA output (which I have connected directly to the 3000 Micro) that both work simultaneously (I use an iFi DAC Signature V2, and not sure if all DAC's output both at the same time). This in theory compensates to some degree for the DSP delay of the 3000 Micro, although I don't know exactly how much delay I am bypassing from my integrated amp. However, it does sound much better to me this way, so I suspect it is compensating for the DSP delay of the 3000 Micro because there is some delay in the integrated amp that I am bypassing. Obviously, this means that I cannot synch the volume level of the sub with the volume level of the integrated amp's volume control, but that is rarely a problem for me because I usually listen at the same volume level (or very close to it) for all music. Also, the SVS app on my iPad (available on other platforms also) can easily and quickly adjust the subwoofer volume level, and since I stream all my music with the Tidal app, I usually have my iPad in my hands or right next to me all the time anyway.
I use an Adi2Pro, which has 2 dac chips in it, and allows dual 5 band parametric EQing, separately for my powered sub (Kreisel dxd800) and my speakers (krell kav400xi + jbl 4311). Though one needs to be ok with putting in a fair bit of time to tweak to taste. It's a bonus if you enjoy the process, a I do. It has been a game changer for me and I love the sheer tweakability of the setup.
Hey John, thanks for introducing me Jamaican Dub Music. I had never heard of this genre before but had heard some snippets on "Death in Paradise" but could never find it on Spotify.
Kef has significantly less output in the 20-40hz region, so the 11hz spec listing is sort of silly. Not sure why they would have the DSP keep the infrasonic levels higher even at max output but let the audible region dip. I suppose having 11hz on paper(lower than massive dual 18" subwoofers listed spec) was a priority.
Mike here. I think this was great. Your second best video yet. Love how you meshed the SVS review and comparison with a bigger hifi question around room eq / future fi - which feels like it has its own story arc.
Great review. One thing to mention about -3dB specs is that it doesn't mean much if it doesn't have an associated volume with it. The 11hz is likely at a lower volume than what SVS rates theirs at (85dB). However both subs would have even higher -3dB points when playing at 90 or higher volumes. Both subs are accurate so they would be playing the same "speed" to reproduce the frequencies. The SVS likely digs deeper in real world usage volumes and the lower frequencies with longer waveforms sound naturally "slower", giving the impression that the KEF is "tighter".
@@DarkoAudio Either way, fantastic video. I love that you went into details of how you set them up (and why you did certain things) which gives that context that's necessary...and the confidence that your subjective assessments are based on actual expert knowledge and experience haha. So when you say you like or don't like something, it means more and we can still decide for ourselves.
Funny you have now reviewed 2 of my main equipment in quick succession. First the Klipsch The Five's and now the SVS 3000 Micro. I've had 5ye klipsch for 18 months and the SVS for 6 months. Love them both
Hi John, from my pro audio and hi end experience you’ll find more musicality by not trying to perfectly flatten the response. Leave one and a half dB to 2 dB variance
Perfect summary of the SVS 3000 Micro. I have a pair of them in white- I went with these after owning dual Martin Logan subs. A great music and film sub. And I cannot underscore enough how important the app is. It makes the trial and error of dialing in a sub so simple. A lot of folks never dial in a sub (though if you have a sense of where to place and not place a sub and set the crossover, you can get most of the way there) correctly so live with compromised performance the entire time.
Have you looked at the graph SVS supplies on their site for the 3000 micro? It's -3db point is nowhere near 23hz. Actually the numbers SVS says and what they show in the measurement don't add up.
At first I thought to myself, why is John just now reviewing the SVS? Most of the “reviewers” have done their thing and had their say. But I should have known better. John is a REAL reviewer and a true music lover. I have yet to add a sub to my system and have gone back and forth in my head between the SVS, KEF, and REL (T5/7X). In my mind, the SVS has the most compelling feature set, most notably the ability to adjust settings from the listening position. And leave it to Darko to call that feature out and really delve into its advantages. Beyond setup, I could also see myself adjusting the sub based on the type of music I’m listening to. For jazz, folk/Americana/singer songwriter stuff, I’d want it to be quite neutral and unobtrusive. But, you know, when you want to rock out or listen to some hip hop, you want a little extra bass sauce added to the mix. The ability to make that change without having to fiddle with the back of the sub which may not be in the most convenient location is a real plus. So while it sounds like the SVS maybe not be *quite* on par musically with the KEF or likely the REL, the use case as described here probably pushes me over the top for the SVS - and will save me some money to boot. Thank you John for always doing such a thorough job and calling out the truly useful findings from your experience.
As a follow up would be nice to see a REL solution as they come from a slightly different angle on subwoofer integration which personally if found very easy to dial in.
Just got the Micro 3000 paired with Gallo Strada speakers and Bluesound Powernode. Quite happy with the 3000. It does have its limits. Unsurprisingly, it could not handle the cannons in the 1812 overture, but it did a very nice otherwise to the kind of music I listen to, mostly classical and female vocals.
Hi John, I now you've looked at the room correction of the NAD devices using Dirac. I'm curious to know if a miniDSP device would work, but it looks way more complex than just using the NAD. I think some of us would appreciate a video on this if it takes your fancy
Another great video, yes a rabbit hole. But one anyone who has an interest in this must be willing to blissfully fall down. Loved hearing your thoughts on these and have convinced me that because I have a mini dsp between the pre - power amps. That the kc62 is the best choice for my setup and circumstances. As with the REW and Dirac options available via the DDrc24 I can (hopefully) achieve the level of output as seen on the SVS, with the Kc62. Perfect
Ive never heard of the late bass delay factor. I'm familiar with this concept from PC monitors but it hadn't occurred to me to consider the bass as its much less obvious than front speakers that are out of lip sync.
Outstanding review/comparison of these 2 premium micro-subwoofers; I am a big believer of "Don't Fix what Ain't Broke" & my listening revolves around 3 speakers, all stand-mounts: 1) Linn Kan Mk.1 circa 1980s; 2) KEF Q10/HTS2001 9.1 CH. circa 1990s-2000s; & 3) JBL S38II 5.1 CH. circa 2001. The Achilles Heel of all my systems has been the subwoofer, specifically their amplifiers & their performance in general. This Video has nailed my aspirations towards resolving this dilemma in the very dimensions I envision for my future media room. Mahalo, John🤩😘👍
Y'know, I picked up a Velodyne spl8bg2 powdered subwoofer at an insanely low price and it is from 2003. Small subs have been around for a while. My new baby will do 28hz in room easily. This sub was also sold as something called the minivee. Excellent bass can come in small packages.
I have a couple of older small subs too. They seem to do better in my tiny room; less boom, less muddy rumble sound. And with decent drivers you can still get a semblance of 20Hz. Room is a bit small to use mega subs for effortlessness
Same but it seems like the incongruity is the software/app which this video made a fairly convincing case for the cost premium even if things were equal soundwise. I would guess the SVS has the edge still, but I'm interested in the rel as well. A wee bit ugly tho.
I have the T-Zero MkIII. It's a great little sub but REL's modus operandum is completely the opposite of the two subs here. REL prefer a high-level connection where the sub gets a full-range signal (from the speaker connections on the amp) and all the filtering happens in the sub. The reasoning being if the sub has access to exactly the same signal as the mains, it integrates better. Of course there is no way to high-pass your main speakers using this connection as you'd also be high-passing the signal to the sub. I'm currently without a proper amplifier or source and I don't really know which way to go to be honest - full DSP and room correction or keep it simple and get the best amplification I can for the money.
Also the REL is less than a third of the price of the KC62 and half the SVS. So it's not really competing in terms of power, extension or features with these two.
Ive got 2 SVS 3000 micro's in my setup. I use them with a Michi X3 amp and a pair of B&W 705 signature speakers. Sounds amazing, however, it still needs a little bit more dialling in. I need to mess with the DSP settings in the subs as I have left these alone.
I went the mimDSP route several years ago with 4 mini-subs and REW. Getting speaker locations and EQ curves optimized took months. The equipment in this demo has come along way., and the semi-automated software is genius. It's possible to do a setup with your older hardware using something like the miniDSP/Dirac box. Also my raspberry Pi streamer has a HAT card in the case that does DSP (~$90 + shipping). I record my own music on a DAW, and what goes out the mastering bus is not always "flat" (on purpose). I prefer in concert recordings of live bands, and no matter how good the FOH guy is, the sound is not going to be studio quality.
Hi Frank… I’ve got my brand-spanking-new Onkyo RZ70 Receiver arriving this weekend which has the built-in Dirac Live software, ready to drive & room-correct my 5.1.4 setup. With regards to REW vs Dirac, are they one and the same… ie if I’m using Dirac there’s no need to use REW? Or do they compliment each other in which case I should consider purchasing a MiniDSP Microphone? You seem like the expert , so I appreciate any feedback you can impart. Thanks! Nickolas
Maybe I'm over simplifying this, but wouldn't it be easiest to dial in the Sub first, using the sub app, once and for good, then use the settings within the amp app to dial in everything else, as well as making changes on the fly for specific sources?
Brilliant vid John. I watch all your videos and this one in particular was so professional and easy to follow,like all your others,but especially as i have the powernode with quad S2 bookshelfs and the svs sb 1000 pro,which uses the same app. As you say,being able to change or play with the sound from your listening position is fantastic.
Have micro sub - a Velodyne SPL R 800 My exerience is ridiculous to my teck knowledge. Yes, The sub was mic calibrated, but what I initially experienced - that I gol hearable low notes, but the most of the energy was dissipated to the door, etc. And just as a curious person I found one specific orientation of the item, that routed the punch energy to the position I desired (got the earthquake effect effectively). That was firing - to - the top at the angle, oriented to the back wall. My guess that each micro sub is very vulnerable to the specific ways of sound energy routing-dissipation in the apartment.
Since I’ve been watching this channel, I’ve bought the Campfire Andromeda, Sony WH1000M5, Sony WR1000M4, RME ADI-2 Dac FS, Cambridge Audio CXN V2 and CXA81, Monitor Audio Gold 100s, Chord Qutest, Fyne Audio F1-5. Now it’s the SVS Micro 3000. John, you are costing me a fortune! 😜
I forgot the Beyerdynamic DT-1990 pro, Grado RS1x, the Lake People G111mk2 headphone amp, the Cambridge Audio Solo Phono preamp and the Sony Hi-Res ripping turntable.
Also the Q Acoustics M20HD and the 3060s subwoofer as my desktop rig.
Also, the Fiio QTS dac/amp, the Astell & Kern AK20 and the Beyerdynamic T8ie Mkii. And the Marantz HD Dac1.
6:30 ...re: filming glossy surfaces:
Keep a mic stand (with boom mic attachment) and a piece of 1x1m black cloth from a fabric store. You can bend the boom mic stand 90 degrees so it has an arm sticking out, and tape the black cloth to it.
Then you just move the mic stand around to block the reflection you're dealing with.
Total cost: $30-40
Industry standard 1x1m black flag negative fill: $150-300
Remember that dialing in the bass is done for the listening position. As you move about the room, you will notice room modes with more and less bass. Multiple subwoofers can help. Bass is by far the hardest thing to manage in a setup. The 45 day SVS trial period was not long enough for me and I sent the two subs I purchased back because I wasn’t able to integrate them to my satisfaction during that period and I was concerned that I might never be able to do it. SVS paid for the return shipping and gave me a full refund. Best customer service ever. Great app as well.
@@johnsmith1474 You apparently dont know, room modes are a giant issue in small rooms and there's plenty of research on multi subwoofer setups and how to overcome issues with placement etc...
Have you tried any sort of room correction? Have you ended up with a different sub in the meantime?
@@johnsmith1474 uh oh... John, thanks for giving us another great example of Dunning-Krueger.
@@johnsmith1474
PROPERLY blended subwoofers into an existing system isn't a trivial matter.
It's likely the single most daunting process an audio enthusiast can undertake.
Yes, there's best practices, rules of thumb, etc etc... however PROPERLY blended sub/mains system can take a great deal of effort.
I would think 45 days is plenty to determine to keep them for further optimization over time. That said, every room/loudspeaker interface is different, and everyone's level of proficiency is different... we're all at various places along our audio journey.
Me, I'm in my sixth decade in all things audio... professionally and as an enthusiast. I'm still experiencing new things, new challenges, acoustic interactions balancing immersiveness and three dimensionality, with image clarity.
My current obsession is bass texture... proper tactility and textural details without excessive energy is the goal. Again, I'm still encountering challenges I wasn't aware of... still discovering new avenues to explore greater optimization.
Audio, done right, is one helluva thing.
@@FOH3663 intergrating my SVS SB 3000 (not the micro one) was the easy part..try getting a pair of Tannoy XT8F to sound sweet in an undersized room..the sub took a week or so...the Tannoys have taken 3+ years :)
I got the SVS sb-1000 and it was the best HiFi component purchase I've made this far.. It was also the last purchase for my system. What a difference.
I bought the Svs 3000 micro today and I’m wondering why people rave about subs? Totally underwhelming to the point I can’t even pick a difference. 😕
@@davidryan5482perhaps your ears haven’t tuned themselves to the sound.
Perhaps your system is sufficiently providing the sound you sought after.
Otherwise try different EQ and sub placement. Finding where the bass is and is not are part of the process.
From my understanding though a well implemented sub is one that you don’t notice. It fills the gap as if it was never there to begin with.
@@davidryan5482: Get someone around to take a look. The sound should be loads better especially with a AVR.
@@davidryan5482more details on your system setup might help others
Great review JD ( your old mate, Richard from Melbourne here). I bought this same Sub about 3 months ago after mulling over the KEF and also the Rel T5/x. The app definitely swayed me as well as the price. It has fit into my system wonderfully and given my PMCs the deeper oomph they need. I love it. As far as tweaking my setup goes, I think I’m done.
But also, great review and I just love how your reviews are more of an exploration and conversation built around the subject matter, rather than just a dry review. Love ya work!
Rich.
I got the SVS micro because I have the prime wireless pro speakers and figured SVS would have tested the sub with their own gear. Placed it next to one of the speaker stands, fiddled with the app for an hour or two as I listened to music, and found a happy place.
So yes, as you note,: A rank amateur can use the sub app to get a subjectively very good sound in an unintimidating way. The other thing is you can save a group of user settings so that you could have a setting for jazz, a setting for rock, a setting for dub etc.. Or save a few general settings and see how they sit with you over time.
Reading through the comments I always learn something new or get great responses to questions. Thanks, you wonderful people ❤️
EXCELENTE TRABAJO
MUCHAS GRACIAS
UN FUERTE ABRAZO DESDE SANTIAGO DE CHILE
I’m a pretty new HiFi dummy and when I started I purchased a SVS Micro to go with KEF ls50 W2, spent a week or so with it and couldn’t get it integrated well or sound good to me at all so it was returned. Tried a KC62 and it immediately fell into place for me and loved the sound. As much as I really didn’t want to spend the cash for the KEF, it was easy for me keep. A smarter person than I may have gotten the Micro to integrate well but since I couldn’t, the KEF was an easy choice to settle (splurge)on. The beauty of the KEF cabinet was also a plus.
Lol. Same mate. The kc62 and ls50 are a perfect match. No drama required.
How are you using Kc62 with your Metas ? Are you high passing the speakers or just using the low pass filter ? What about the location? I have Metas incoming and currently have Martin Logan sub but very curious about the integration of Kc62 with the Metas.
John, I have recently gone from 1 sub, to 2, to 4 subs in my 5m by 4m room. All SVS SB1000 pros. Only $500 US each. Same great software and features as the Micro3000. I can adjust and synch them all from my listening seat in moments. Each time I’ve added subs it has reduced peaks and troughs (great for solo and partner listening) and and also increased headroom. Beautifully integrates with my KEF LS50 Wireless II. Would love for you to explore using multiple subs. Love your reviews! You are the best at what you do!
Are they connected to 4 different sub outputs, or did you use a Y-splitter?
What did you use to integrate them ? MiniDSP or other implementations?
Nice to see the Lyngdorf in the system. I have the MP-60-2.1 and once I ran the Room Perfect the bass response was the best I've ever heard in terms of deep, punchy bass. It really was a set it and forget it experience.
Darko, a well-done presentation. A word about bass that is "tighter' than another sub--- that is most often the result of the amplifier having a higher "Damping Factor". This is much less critical for mids & highs, but for bass it is a major factor. The diff between 800 or 1,000 watts in a home is really nothing, but DF is readily apparent. As the speaker cone returns to neutral (and beyond) after it's initial excursion, it generates a current back into the amp. When an amp has a high Damping Factor, this back & forth is mitigated.
I added the 3000 Micro in white to my system that has Parasound amp and pre, with the Node and Elac Reference speakers. I also use with VPI phono and in 3.1 surround when watching movies. I think it's fantastic in all three applications.
Thank you for this (brilliant) review!
Most people do not live in acoustic-perfect rooms, and do not have perfect matching speaker/amp combinations; equalizers will do the trick!
Very nice to see new build-in EQ solutions.
DSP delay can be dealt with phase adjustment on the sub. SVS usually provides that on their amps directly or on their app. No need to move the sub .
It's not only you who has 130Hz bump. It's almost everybody because of the typical room dimension (8'- 9' ceiling, 12-14' width). Yes, you need to invert RIR. Also, it would make lots of sense to have 2 subs and cross at 150... 200Hz because the main's mid-woofers produce a lot of IMD/ non-LTI distortions when they attempt to play f < 2*f0 > 70dBC.
Thanks for all your hard work and time you put into this project very helpful.
Thank you - this is such a thoughtful consideration of the real factors when integrating a sub. It was tricky enough with my studio set up, but my downstairs listening room has vintage hifi bordering on antique in a relatively small and difficult room. Quirky set up, low tech, few controls, cramped space options, challenging environment. Helpful controls within the sub can be make or break in these real world situations! It's not about sonic specs alone...
Love the SVS Micro, thank you Darko for the in deep review I learn a lot more about my sub and room eq :):):)
Great video. Just found it, just picked up a 3000. What a very very nice sub for my use. Lol I started to watch all your videos. Lol
Unfortunately my wife took one look at the SVS, and removed it from the candidate list immediately. Guess we're buying the KC62 regardless of cost. They could work on their designs for a better W.A.F., and I hope they do as they seem to be of great quality.
Try placing a pic of your wife beside a pic of both subs, and see which one you want to keep 😃
@@shughy1 😄😁
@@shughy1 😂
Get rid of the wife,problem solved!
I hear alot of men saying “my wife approved, my wife decided, my wife allowed, etc”…Electronics in the household, is a man responsibility. 🤷♂️
Everytime I come here I leave with some new bad ass music. Scratch was great
My kc62 came in the mail yesterday finally after having my metas for over a year drooling over the thought of more bass. Set it up directly in between my speakers, started off by putting the settings exactly how they are on this video and barely had to play around with it. If you have ls 50s just get a subwoofer for it. Definitely the most fun upgrade to my system
Still enjoying it? Just ordered a kc62 for the wireless iis
A real shame the SVS doesn't have high/speaker level inputs. Effectively rules it out for all of us integrated amp users without sub/preamp outputs.
I use BK electronic subs. No DSP bells and whistles but all have speaker level inputs. REL are pretty good in that regard, too.
Not with the Micro 3000, but their slightly larger SB 1000 pro has both speaker level inputs and the app for EQ. Could be an option for those looking for a sub with both of those features
KEF Kube as well. 👍
You could probably get a speaker to line input converter.
@@RennieAsh i called SVS and they suggested something like that. not sure how well it works in practice but i guess i could try and return the thing if it don't work.
The kef is nice when it works. Mine has been in repair for several months now. My LS50 wireless set also broke just after warranty expired..
superb video! I was looking into REL subs, which I enjoy their performance but the SVS won me over because I have 2 sets of speakers (listening and DJing) and not having to reach to the back everytime to adjust the settings is a gamechanger for people who have different pairs of speakers in a room...a very special case for sure.
Wow ... thank you very much for this video! I'm using the Powernode with the KEF LS 50 Meta and think of adding a sub for a while. First, I was afraid till very close to the end of the video. Then, you summed it up perfectly, gave me a perfect advise and you've taken my fears away. Thanks! And hopefully, everyone had happy holidays and will have a good start into the new year!
Hi. I have the same setup. And also deciding to add a sub or not , pls share your experience when possible , cheers
Great video. Please test a REL subwoofer the next time 🙂
Finally understand sub placement and delay. Thanks!
Been waiting for a head to head between these two. Thanks for finally doing one, you DESTROYED all the other reviews of them....
😉
I highly recommend the Arendal 1961 1s. It's a larger but less expensive closed sub with a 12" speaker. It has dsp as well which you can control on the sub without an app though. I also really like the matte finish. It's only 900€ with free shipping and a 5 year warranty.
It would stomp these pretenders.
@@Roof_Pizza except that it really doesn't...
@@audible67 Lemme guess, you also think a little 6 watt tube amp can keep up with the big boys.
I like how John Darko explain things in his videos. Its an art I would say. Sub'd!
Another excellent video and speech, John. Thank you!
Bloody fantastic review, John. Am in the market for a sub, so this was bang on, as well as informative & entertaining. Thanks
My KEF KC62 was amazingly easy to set-up and simply disappears---leaving a wonderfully deep & "location-less" bass sound.
FYI: The KC62 is matched with a pair of KEF LS50 Metas. At a total investment of less than $3,000 USD, this combination may be the best cost-vs-performance high-end loud speaker system currently available. Highly recommended...
Hi John. Have your KC62 a issue with automatic turning on by low volume as a lot people mentioned about it?
Which amp are you using?
@@piotrmajda5089 Thus far, I have not noticed that issue.
Running two KC62,s setup as stereo pair and couldn’t be happier with the sound and ease of setup and integration with my LS 50 wireless two’s. Using a Lumin T2 streamer as my source and have increased detail and soundstage with this addition. Lumin app is very good. Saving now for a amp and Focal Sopra 2’s.
The hard part for me in speaker and sub selection is two fold: 1) speakers/sub that my wife can hear but not look at and 2) things my young kids won't mess about with.
Next home will have a dedicated listening room and the SVS 3000 micro is on my list of potential upgrades when the move happens.
Same struggles
It's a year after this video aired and I have just bought the SVS SB-1000 Pro and this video was so helpful, thanks John.
Good conversation. The trick being how does it sound at the listening position when done I guess. The SVS approach is convenient but once dialed in not a thing likely to be used again.
Actually I tweak mine constantly because sources vary drastically
You know that you are a Darko Audio fan when, as he introduces a video, you notice changes in his listening room. New kit other than what is being featured, new accessories, new plants, etc.
Always a pleasure John. When I launch TH-cam my first thought is “I hope there is a new Darko Audio feature to watch”
That painting displayed behind you is SO beautiful. The colors are just.. Mm! Chefs kiss
I assume you're being funny, been looking more at the Samsung frame TV's. Thinking that, in the future, all TV's will have a separate box for all the power, inputs, and outputs.
I think that this was one of your best videos ever...very educational.
Great Job John , The Kef is a huge plus for people who own Vintage Integrated amps and recievers that do not have rca preouts ! Hi-level input love it !
Not dry at all. Loved this video and when you wander
Great episode. One thing I have found useful is to place the sub in near field. It was suggested by Steve Guttenberg in an episode.
Such a great informative video. Every TH-camr should learn how to incorporate ads as you did. Didn't bother me at all. I currently have a 8" Kef Cube that just doesn't have the punch I need. Looking at the svs 3000 micro.
Hey John, I've put together the Bluesound with 2 SVS 3000 Micro and 2 Dali Rubicon 2. I have to say the 2.2 set up is quite amazing. Totally blows away a 2.1 set up. However I am still missing some output between 100-300Hz. I fear I may have to go to Lyndorf to resolve this issue. Keep up the good work!
Love your videos John. Thanks for the awesome advice.
This is almost the same setup i got back in May, the SVS 3000 micro, sonus faber lumina 2 but with a Audiolab 6000A play, and you are so right about the SVS app, its so easy to dail in when you can sit in your chair and adjust with your phone
I have an SVS 3000 Micro and I deal with the DSP delay by connecting it directly to my DAC's RCA output instead of my integrated amp line level or sub-woofer output (or a pre-amp output for those who have separates). My DAC has both an balanced XLR output (connected to my integrated amp) and also an RCA output (which I have connected directly to the 3000 Micro) that both work simultaneously (I use an iFi DAC Signature V2, and not sure if all DAC's output both at the same time). This in theory compensates to some degree for the DSP delay of the 3000 Micro, although I don't know exactly how much delay I am bypassing from my integrated amp. However, it does sound much better to me this way, so I suspect it is compensating for the DSP delay of the 3000 Micro because there is some delay in the integrated amp that I am bypassing. Obviously, this means that I cannot synch the volume level of the sub with the volume level of the integrated amp's volume control, but that is rarely a problem for me because I usually listen at the same volume level (or very close to it) for all music. Also, the SVS app on my iPad (available on other platforms also) can easily and quickly adjust the subwoofer volume level, and since I stream all my music with the Tidal app, I usually have my iPad in my hands or right next to me all the time anyway.
I use an Adi2Pro, which has 2 dac chips in it, and allows dual 5 band parametric EQing, separately for my powered sub (Kreisel dxd800) and my speakers (krell kav400xi + jbl 4311). Though one needs to be ok with putting in a fair bit of time to tweak to taste. It's a bonus if you enjoy the process, a I do. It has been a game changer for me and I love the sheer tweakability of the setup.
Hey John, thanks for introducing me Jamaican Dub Music. I had never heard of this genre before but had heard some snippets on "Death in Paradise" but could never find it on Spotify.
Kef has significantly less output in the 20-40hz region, so the 11hz spec listing is sort of silly. Not sure why they would have the DSP keep the infrasonic levels higher even at max output but let the audible region dip. I suppose having 11hz on paper(lower than massive dual 18" subwoofers listed spec) was a priority.
Mike here. I think this was great. Your second best video yet. Love how you meshed the SVS review and comparison with a bigger hifi question around room eq / future fi - which feels like it has its own story arc.
Great review. One thing to mention about -3dB specs is that it doesn't mean much if it doesn't have an associated volume with it. The 11hz is likely at a lower volume than what SVS rates theirs at (85dB). However both subs would have even higher -3dB points when playing at 90 or higher volumes. Both subs are accurate so they would be playing the same "speed" to reproduce the frequencies. The SVS likely digs deeper in real world usage volumes and the lower frequencies with longer waveforms sound naturally "slower", giving the impression that the KEF is "tighter".
Agree completely re. -3dB specs being incomplete. And my comment on the same was axed from the final edit.
@@DarkoAudio Either way, fantastic video. I love that you went into details of how you set them up (and why you did certain things) which gives that context that's necessary...and the confidence that your subjective assessments are based on actual expert knowledge and experience haha. So when you say you like or don't like something, it means more and we can still decide for ourselves.
i have the svs micro 3000...it's great and packs alot of bass
Wow. thanks for this solid piece of review / discurse on the topics! Well done.
This is a terrific review.
Funny you have now reviewed 2 of my main equipment in quick succession. First the Klipsch The Five's and now the SVS 3000 Micro. I've had 5ye klipsch for 18 months and the SVS for 6 months. Love them both
A video that I was hoping someone would do, thanks Mate!
Looking forward to watching this (as a Lyngdorf TDAi-1120 owner with an SVS Micro 3000 and Revel M16s).
Hi John, from my pro audio and hi end experience you’ll find more musicality by not trying to perfectly flatten the response. Leave one and a half dB to 2 dB variance
“Automagically” - sweet 😁🎉
Perfect summary of the SVS 3000 Micro. I have a pair of them in white- I went with these after owning dual Martin Logan subs. A great music and film sub. And I cannot underscore enough how important the app is. It makes the trial and error of dialing in a sub so simple. A lot of folks never dial in a sub (though if you have a sense of where to place and not place a sub and set the crossover, you can get most of the way there) correctly so live with compromised performance the entire time.
Subwoofers aside, I'm loving the Rega turntable.
Great video, very insightful. Keep it coming.
Have you looked at the graph SVS supplies on their site for the 3000 micro? It's -3db point is nowhere near 23hz. Actually the numbers SVS says and what they show in the measurement don't add up.
Absolutely fantastic review, great information and personality! I’m entertained and informed 👍
One of your best videos John! 👊🏻
Can't wait for you to review dual subs !
I’d love to hear your take on REL and their proprietary high-level connection. Any chance you can get one in for review?
I have a REL T9x. Don't understand the hype at all. High-Level doesn't make an enormous difference and means you can't high pass your speakers.
At first I thought to myself, why is John just now reviewing the SVS? Most of the “reviewers” have done their thing and had their say. But I should have known better. John is a REAL reviewer and a true music lover. I have yet to add a sub to my system and have gone back and forth in my head between the SVS, KEF, and REL (T5/7X). In my mind, the SVS has the most compelling feature set, most notably the ability to adjust settings from the listening position. And leave it to Darko to call that feature out and really delve into its advantages.
Beyond setup, I could also see myself adjusting the sub based on the type of music I’m listening to. For jazz, folk/Americana/singer songwriter stuff, I’d want it to be quite neutral and unobtrusive. But, you know, when you want to rock out or listen to some hip hop, you want a little extra bass sauce added to the mix. The ability to make that change without having to fiddle with the back of the sub which may not be in the most convenient location is a real plus.
So while it sounds like the SVS maybe not be *quite* on par musically with the KEF or likely the REL, the use case as described here probably pushes me over the top for the SVS - and will save me some money to boot. Thank you John for always doing such a thorough job and calling out the truly useful findings from your experience.
black , high gloss, grand piano finish equals elegance ......white sub , is showy and will clash with most wood flooring
Thanks John! So well done. Interesting and thorough.
Great video. Also excited to learn more about the wireless pro speakers!
As a follow up would be nice to see a REL solution as they come from a slightly different angle on subwoofer integration which personally if found very easy to dial in.
One of my favorite episodes. That was awesome, man.
Great honest review. Plans on reviewing the new KEF LSX IIs?
Thanks for this exhaustive, detailed review just like the subw (on my list) being reviewed ;).
Just got the Micro 3000 paired with Gallo Strada speakers and Bluesound Powernode. Quite happy with the 3000. It does have its limits. Unsurprisingly, it could not handle the cannons in the 1812 overture, but it did a very nice otherwise to the kind of music I listen to, mostly classical and female vocals.
It can handle anything. The human ear can't hear anything below 20 hz anyway.
Best. to have real cannons for that special occasion.
Hi John, I now you've looked at the room correction of the NAD devices using Dirac. I'm curious to know if a miniDSP device would work, but it looks way more complex than just using the NAD. I think some of us would appreciate a video on this if it takes your fancy
The kc 62 is one of the best $1500 I have ever spent. Ever
What speakers you pair it with?
Thanks
Wow now I have all kinds of ideas . I just wish I had the time to experiment !
Another great video, yes a rabbit hole. But one anyone who has an interest in this must be willing to blissfully fall down. Loved hearing your thoughts on these and have convinced me that because I have a mini dsp between the pre - power amps. That the kc62 is the best choice for my setup and circumstances. As with the REW and Dirac options available via the DDrc24 I can (hopefully) achieve the level of output as seen on the SVS, with the Kc62. Perfect
Thanks so much. . . what a great video! Gear matching, room correction, subwoofer integration and bass management. Just what the doctor ordered 🤣
Ive never heard of the late bass delay factor. I'm familiar with this concept from PC monitors but it hadn't occurred to me to consider the bass as its much less obvious than front speakers that are out of lip sync.
Absolutely brilliant video. If I'm going to update my system in the next year or two, setup like this is probably my goal.
Outstanding review/comparison of these 2 premium micro-subwoofers; I am a big believer of "Don't Fix what Ain't Broke" & my listening revolves around 3 speakers, all stand-mounts: 1) Linn Kan Mk.1 circa 1980s; 2) KEF Q10/HTS2001 9.1 CH. circa 1990s-2000s; & 3) JBL S38II 5.1 CH. circa 2001. The Achilles Heel of all my systems has been the subwoofer, specifically their amplifiers & their performance in general. This Video has nailed my aspirations towards resolving this dilemma in the very dimensions I envision for my future media room. Mahalo, John🤩😘👍
Just out of curiosity, which subwoofer have you decided to buy?
Y'know, I picked up a Velodyne spl8bg2 powdered subwoofer at an insanely low price and it is from 2003. Small subs have been around for a while. My new baby will do 28hz in room easily. This sub was also sold as something called the minivee. Excellent bass can come in small packages.
I have a couple of older small subs too. They seem to do better in my tiny room; less boom, less muddy rumble sound. And with decent drivers you can still get a semblance of 20Hz. Room is a bit small to use mega subs for effortlessness
Another option in this category I am curious about is the REL T-Zero MKII.
I await REL too, both T-Zero and TX...
Low output power, but it's still nice sounding in a small room
Same but it seems like the incongruity is the software/app which this video made a fairly convincing case for the cost premium even if things were equal soundwise. I would guess the SVS has the edge still, but I'm interested in the rel as well. A wee bit ugly tho.
I have the T-Zero MkIII. It's a great little sub but REL's modus operandum is completely the opposite of the two subs here. REL prefer a high-level connection where the sub gets a full-range signal (from the speaker connections on the amp) and all the filtering happens in the sub. The reasoning being if the sub has access to exactly the same signal as the mains, it integrates better. Of course there is no way to high-pass your main speakers using this connection as you'd also be high-passing the signal to the sub. I'm currently without a proper amplifier or source and I don't really know which way to go to be honest - full DSP and room correction or keep it simple and get the best amplification I can for the money.
Also the REL is less than a third of the price of the KC62 and half the SVS. So it's not really competing in terms of power, extension or features with these two.
Great review
Ive got 2 SVS 3000 micro's in my setup. I use them with a Michi X3 amp and a pair of B&W 705 signature speakers. Sounds amazing, however, it still needs a little bit more dialling in. I need to mess with the DSP settings in the subs as I have left these alone.
I went the mimDSP route several years ago with 4 mini-subs and REW. Getting speaker locations and EQ curves optimized took months. The equipment in this demo has come along way., and the semi-automated software is genius. It's possible to do a setup with your older hardware using something like the miniDSP/Dirac box. Also my raspberry Pi streamer has a HAT card in the case that does DSP (~$90 + shipping). I record my own music on a DAW, and what goes out the mastering bus is not always "flat" (on purpose). I prefer in concert recordings of live bands, and no matter how good the FOH guy is, the sound is not going to be studio quality.
Hi Frank… I’ve got my brand-spanking-new Onkyo RZ70 Receiver arriving this weekend which has the built-in Dirac Live software, ready to drive & room-correct my 5.1.4 setup. With regards to REW vs Dirac, are they one and the same… ie if I’m using Dirac there’s no need to use REW? Or do they compliment each other in which case I should consider purchasing a MiniDSP Microphone? You seem like the expert , so I appreciate any feedback you can impart. Thanks! Nickolas
Absolutely great review.
Just great. Thanks
In Australia you can currently buy two 3000 micro for $200 less than one KC62.
Maybe I'm over simplifying this, but wouldn't it be easiest to dial in the Sub first, using the sub app, once and for good, then use the settings within the amp app to dial in everything else, as well as making changes on the fly for specific sources?
Brilliant vid John. I watch all your videos and this one in particular was so professional and easy to follow,like all your others,but especially as i have the powernode with quad S2 bookshelfs and the svs sb 1000 pro,which uses the same app. As you say,being able to change or play with the sound from your listening position is fantastic.
awesome in all ways!
Have micro sub - a Velodyne SPL R 800
My exerience is ridiculous to my teck knowledge.
Yes, The sub was mic calibrated, but what I initially experienced - that I gol hearable low notes, but the most of the energy was dissipated to the door, etc.
And just as a curious person I found one specific orientation of the item, that routed the punch energy to the position I desired (got the earthquake effect effectively).
That was firing - to - the top at the angle, oriented to the back wall.
My guess that each micro sub is very vulnerable to the specific ways of sound energy routing-dissipation in the apartment.