I have been working as a coach for many years and noticed for myself and my clients that if you skip a workout for a week or two, your strength immediately drops! If a person has squeezed a 100 kg barbell 10 times, then after resting he does 6-8 times! Long rest may not harm muscle growth, but it relaxes the nervous system, and the body cannot make the necessary efforts, which leads to reduced results!
@ I did it multiple times. Once rested 9 days, did 2 more reps, then 10 days, did 2 more reps and then when I rested 12 I actually did 3+ reps on multiple exercises. I have no reason to lie
Even if I could do that (and forty years have proved I can't)@@PureFred , I wouldn't because progress would be so slow. The faster I can recover and grow, the faster my progress is. One or two reps progress every 25 hours is way better than adding 3 reps in 12 days. Since growth has to be stimulated first, once growth has occurred waiting longer defies any logic since there is no reason for further growth to occur until further growth has been stimulated.
I have gone over 12 consecutive weeks with no lack in progress due to Mike's routine. Best results and progress I've tracked or seen in my weight history
Thank You, John, for giving such a detailed answer to the question that I asked in your last video of Mike's leg workout. I greatly appreciate you and your concern for the modern bodybuilder.
I’ve trained the HDHIT style for 18+months Previously training 5times/week, 6 exercises, 3 sets of 10. Now it’s once every 72hours, 4-6 sets per workout. As a natural, knowing how to and wanting to train to failure, this method has been a revelation. Just look around the gym this evening: people are either performing 3 texts of 10 or are juicing…
When i started with this program.. like MM said don't be gym rat .. have training every 72hrs.. what to do 2 day.. so much off.. can't wait to go to the gym... after some time.. oh it's gym time already... now.. i workout 1 time per week and I am growing and weight or reps go up each time. And I see a progress . Im so happy and when u really know hot to do 1 set to failure u are really tired. Only thing i regret that i didn't find Joe Little earlier. Damn. 💪
It’s a shame Mike is gone. I don’t know why I’m getting so many videos about this Dr. Mike guy with the shaved head who is everything Mike Mentzer is against. I would have loved to see debates between the two.
Well they have come a long way since mentzer. New tech and trials have shown that volume does stimulate growth as well. My 3 biggest take away from Mentzer are 1) intensity equally stimulation for growth. 2) ample rest is needed to allow the growth to happen. 3 ) carbs hold more water allowing the muscle to swell and fuel the work out.
Such an informative video! I really like it. Thank you for your work! One thing I’m still unsure about is whether standing bicep curls with a straight bar (or dumbbells) are truly the best exercise. In the lower and upper parts of the movement, not all muscle fibers seem to be recruited effectively. The most challenging phase occurs when the arm is parallel to the floor, as this is where the tension is highest due to gravity. Before and after this point, the resistance decreases significantly during both the concentric and eccentric phases. Mike always emphasized achieving maximum contraction. Standing curls, however, don’t fully provide this. To compensate, lifters may could lean their upper body backward or forward while performing the exercise, which might compromise form. Alternatively, you could focus on other exercises designed to maximize contraction and eccentric stretch. For instance, Mike suggested a superset of bicep curls followed by close-grip, palms-up pulldowns in one of his books. This combination might ensure optimal stimulation for muscle growth.
This is pretty enlightening, John, thank you! Mike's chest routine has a pre-exhaust superset for the chest with incline press followed after flyes. Considering that there's no benefit in fiber recruitment to doing two different exercises, would it be pointless to perform these two exercises outside of a SuperSet? Ie: resting a minute before performing the other.
Good question. I suspect outside of a superset there would be no reason to. I think it also speaks to the sufficiency of only doing the one exercise (dips) in the Consolidated Program as well.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE I get and agree with the principle. Why given the argument, would he prescribe incline over flat press if generally people can push more weight with flat or even decline press.
Apart from weight, another factor of intensity is distance. That is, the range through which you move the resistance. I believe Mike preferred the incline press owing to it having a greater range of motion (somewhere between a military press and a bench press) than the flat bench press. Mike sought to work each muscle group over its fullest range of motion. Either exercise (he recommended flat bench presses for those who didn't have access to an incline press) will work the entire pectoral complex, however, owing to noncontiguous innervation.
The video makes sense, but I still have one question. If it's true that you can't specifically target the upper chest with exercises, why does the upper chest feel rock solid when adducting the humerus toward the sternum at a high angle, yet feels soft when doing the same motion at a low angle? For example, during dips, the lower chest feels very firm, but during an incline press, the lower chest doesn't seem to activate as much or get particularly hard. It seems logical that the whole pec muscle would activate uniformly, but the pec fibers run in different directions. If all the fibers contracted equally, wouldn’t some of their functions cancel each other out? For instance, the lower pec fibers might counteract the upper chest fibers that are involved in shoulder flexion. I'd really like to hear your thoughts on this!
Thanks for your post. I think the differential you indicated goes away when you are contracting hard, as against resistance. If you do that same experiment, but flex your pec as hard as you can with your hand above your head and then moving it down to your hip, you won’t feel much difference in the hardness of the pectoral muscle overall, nor is one area of it harder than another. The various heads can be uniquely activated without resistance, doing day-to-day tasks with just the weight of the arm. However, when resistance is involved, more fibres are recruited. Perhaps more significantly, in a study involving electromyography by Barnett et al, published in the Journal of Strength & Conditioning Research in November 1995,. The researchers concluded that: “the clavicular head of the pectoralis major was no more active during the incline bench press than during the horizontal one.”
@ Thank you for the detailed answer! I appreciate it greatly. It makes more sense now. However, would this not apply to other muscles with multiple heads such as the deltoids? One can clearly bias the heads of the deltoid. But what you are saying makes sense as I also have studied muscle physiology. However when it comes to the deltoids, one can significantly bias a specific head of the deltoids and I cannot seem to understand why this principle does not apply to the chest but to the delts.
Noncontiguous innervation doesn’t apply to each and every muscle group. Rather, it applies to muscle groups that perform a general function. The deltoids consist of three heads, each of which performs a different function. You could not activate the posterior deltoid by doing seated rows, for example. This is why Mike recommended lateral raises for the lateral head of the deltoid; bent over raises for the posterior head of the deltoid, while the anterior deltoid was worked in the exercises listed for the chest workout. I don’t have exhaustive knowledge on innervation, but noncontiguous innervation does apply to the abdominals, the pectorals, as well as the quadriceps, hamstrings and biceps and triceps, I believe (I may be wrong about some of these muscle groups).
Thank you for the video on a very important topic, Mr. John Little. Allow me ask you a question on the topic: If the goal of training is to recruit and fatigue as many fibers as possible, would the same mentality of using only a few exercises to stimulate as much muscle hypertrophy and strength as possible apply to compound and isolation exercises? For example: if you perform 1 set to failure of a Chest Press and Shoulder Press, you will have recruited and fatigued all the muscle fibers in the pectorails, deltoids (mostly anterior and medial deltoids), and triceps, so there is no need to perform a triceps extension or isolation/single joint exercises for the deltoids (such as lateral raises)? If you train to failure with a significant load, suing compound exercises (Chest PRes, Bench Press, Chin ups/Pulldowns, Rows, Leg Press, Deadlifts/SLDL), is there any need or reason, to add isolation/single joint exercises such as Biceps Curls, Triceps Extensions, Lateral Raises, Leg Extensions? Thank you very much Greetings from a Brazilian fan!
Thanks very much for your post. You raise a good point. In reality there probably does not exist a need for the supplemental exercises. There was a study performed recently to see if adding supplemental arm exercises to a basic routine consisting of seated rows, bench presses, squats, etc. would result in developing bigger arms. At the end of the study, the researchers were surprised to discover that there was no difference between the group that just did the basic exercises and the group that did the basic exercise exercises plus additional arm exercise exercises. Arm growth was the same.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE Thank you for replying to my commmetn. I saw a similar study by Dr. Paulo Gentil(Brazilain Scientis who worked with Dr.Fisher and Dr.Steele) on the topic. It makes sense for the biceps, triceps and shoulders. I am skeptical about hamsting develpement, since the Leg Press or Squat doesnt addrees the main function of the hamstring. (I usually peform a Knee flextion execise ) Thank you again.!
It’s true that a compound leg movement would not necessarily work the hamstrings directly. However, the hamstrings have two heads, just like the biceps of the upper arm, and also are noncontiguosly innervated; meaning, that when you perform a hamstring exercise, both heads of the hamstring are engaged. The hamstrings do receive some stimulation from compound leg exercises, but I suspect it is antagonistic.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE Thanks for the explanation. I'm sure that if someone did only leg presses or squats for the lower body, he or she would increase the strength and size of the Their Hamstring, but it's hard to believe that this tehy would maximize it's size and strength without always stressing the muscle in it's primary function.
You bring up an important topic; that is, “maximizing” the size of a muscle group. It is generally a phrase that is used as conjecture, as nobody knows what the potential size of a muscle group will be ahead of time. As Mike said, it is the expression of a possibility that can be assessed accurately only in retrospect. Given the huge role that genetics play in developing above normal levels of muscle size, I strongly suspect that if your hamstrings are not bigger after performing a year or two worth of compound leg exercises, then you may not have the genetic potential to develop large hamstrings. The idea of maximizing muscle size implies that if you just have the right exercise or combination of exercises, whatever muscle group you wish will develop to a preconceived size that fits with a preconceived vision. Unfortunately, genetics simply doesn’t work that way. If you look at photographs of Mike when he was 15, almost every muscle group is fully developed. His legs in particular were huge. I have a client in my gym who is 63 years old and has an 18 1/2 inch calf. He’s had it all his life and has never done a calf exercise in his life. It’s the incredible fibre density within someone’s muscles that Indicates their size potential. Mike even said his father had bigger calves than he did and all he did was mow the lawn. When this type of genetic endowment is married with resistance training, even indirect stimulation is sufficient to develop muscle size that is mind-boggling. Whether it is “maximum” would seem to me a never-ending and unanswerable quest, as there is always something else you might have done that might’ve squeezed out just a little bit more growth. Or so we think.
Great video John so much information and logic and yes there will be scepticism as always but it shines a light on the massive waste of time in gyms. I have one question with Mike's recommendations on the chest super set is there a reason related to this video that Mike recommends incline press . I use a nautilus chest machine press that operates straight away from the body is this acceptable.
Very good job and topic . Thank you john for speaking out all these things we wanted to also but we couldnt methodically share them with the people the people also are so brainwashed in the old traditions and myths that sometimes they are offensive in the different point of view . I want to request you to do a small video speaking about the pace tempo of the reps and the range of motion . I am telling this cause i have a question as a gymnastic trainer we used to say that when the weight becomes high inevitably you loose some of the exersice form. So if i go to heavy load with the protocols reps isnt it impossible to keep the 4-2-4 (possitive-isometric-negative) pace any more ? I have to make it quicker can you give us more info on this topic?
Hi, this is very interesting content. However, I got a bit confused with a statement in 9:06 about irrelevance of hand spacing. I found in one of Mike's book that "A closer hand spacing causes the pecs to stretch and work over a greater range of motion". That sentence would imply that hand space is actually something? Have I mixed some principles or misunderstood?
Generally, the point was that changing to a close-grip on a curl versus a normal grip is a trivial consideration compared to the load your muscles are contracting against. What Mike was referring to was a hand spacing in the incline press; a closer hand spacing with your elbows flared out provides a great range of motion for the pectoral muscles, whereas a close-grip or wide-grip in the barbell curl doesn't alter the range of motion of the curl.
@ Thank you, would it then make sense to say that: whenever your hand spacing or angle you choose during some exercises (i.e. sitting position on leg press) has positive influence on range of motion, it's considered as meaningful for end results?
It's an interesting topic. The correct answer lies somewhere in the middle. A muscle group like the deltoids could never be fully developed with only one exercise, because the fibers are designed to pull the humerus in so many different directions to accomodate all of the mobility we have at the joint.
There are three separate muscles that comprise the shoulder, so the same principle applies. You don’t, for example, need two different types of lateral raises in order to maximall stimulate the lateral head of the deltoid. Ditto for the anterior portion and the posterior portion.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE But this is where the lines become a bit blurred. When exactly do we distinguish one segment of a muscle from another? For example the clavicular head of the pecs can be distinguished from the sternal head of the pecs, despite their similarities. It's all somewhat arbitrary. You could even differentiate the thoracic-origin lat fibers from the lumbar-origin lat fibers from the iliac-origin lat fibers. Where does the distinction end?
@ Good points. I think you have to trace the innervation of the muscle complex. Pec Minor and Pec Major tend to work together in contraction owing to noncontiguous innervation. Certain back muscles also come into play apart from the lats when you train the lats. I haven’t done an in-depth dive into the innervation of the various muscle groups, but I suspect the answer lies there.
Sir it's been 4 months i go to the gym and i train 3 times a week mon wednesday and Friday. Monday- shoulder, chest and triceps Wednesday- Back and biceps Friday- legs Plus i follow the exercises of Dorian yates and I am completely natural. So can I get a good physique
I've got a question: should i train the day i am supppsed to be back in the gym, if before that thay, while resting, i didn't eat enough and/or didn't drink enough water? Or should i add rest day(s)?
You always want to be on your 100% condition, in my opinion, to maximize the stimulus. If you're not feeling completely recovered you can take another day.
@@GreenKnight1294I agree, but eat at maintenance. If not you'll gain fat. The reason I say this is because some people think rest days let you eat anything.
Why would we have several heads of muscle, such as the clavicular and sternal portions of the pecs, if one exercise does the same job? Optimal intensity can only be achieved by drawing the origin towards the insertion of a particular muscle group. A military press will not efficiently work the sternal portion of the pecs for example.
We have several heads of a muscle so that maximum muscle fiber recruitment (read: maximum energy output) isn't the go-to for your body when you pick up a pencil. All of the heads tend to come into play depending upon the load that needs to overcome. To answer your points in turn: 1.) Different muscles have different heads (biceps =2, triceps = 3, quadriceps = 4, etc.) In the case of the chest, there is 1. Sternal and clavicular doesn’t refer to heads in this instance but rather to origin and insertion points of a muscle group. An exercise such as the flye or bench press involves the gross muscle owing to noncontiguous innervation. 2.) Intensity refers to one’s percentage of possible momentary effort. It is “optimal” according to how close you take an exercise to the point of momentary muscular failure. This requires load and (obviously) effort on an exercise. Minus sufficient load, you can draw the origin towards the insertion of a muscle group with an extremely light load and the intensity will not be “optimal.” You can also fully engage a muscle group by an isometric contraction where there is no movement at all and generate optimal intensity. Again, in the example of the bench press, if the upper arm is away from the torso at the start but moves toward the midline during the contraction, that is sufficient to engage the pectoral muscle (pec minor and major). 3.) The pecs are involved in the military press owing to noncontiguous innervation. If you are merely lifting your hands in the air, however, not many fibres are required or recruited. If, however, you are performing heavy military presses, your pectorals are strongly engaged in the exercise. The very fact that the pecs are involved at all in the military press speaks to the fact of noncontiguous innervation.
Isometric contractions emanate growth from a specific region of the muscle@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE, not the entire length which necessitates a full range of motion. You can start with an hypothesis and develop a theory, but that doesn't ensure that that theory is complete.
@@Starbreaker2012 While some studies show isometric exercise results in position-specific strength increases, many don’t and show a moderate to strong correlation between isometric and dynamic performance. MedX research showed this response varied between individuals, with most people having a position-specific response (strength increased within about 15 degrees of the position trained isometrically) while others had a general response (strength increased over the full range of motion of the exercise regardless of the position trained isometrically). If what you are suggesting is a law of physiology, then there would be no exceptions to it and everyone tested would only be stronger at the position the isometric contraction was performed at. It has been suggested that position-specific strength increases on tests reported in some studies have more to do with neural adaptations (motor learning or skill in performing a given movement) than general improvements in muscular strength.
This is one were I think Mike was just to early to see science develop. We know from EMG feedback that different movements activate the different fibers of large muscle groups differently. Particularly when those muscle groups have various origins. The Pec Major has a clavicular, sternal, and abdominal head. That is 3 movements to emphasize each head of what appears to be one muscle. There is a reason why Mike's program has Incline Bench, Chest flies, and Dips. It hits each head of the Pec.
@@TheScamr It’s true that different movements activate different heads of a muscle, but this is way more pronounced when little or no resistance is employed during the movement. As soon as a meaningful resistance is imposed on the muscle, all of the heads come into play as indicated in the video as a result of how the pectoral muscle (for example) is noncontiguously innervated. Electromyography was cited in several studies in the video, which support the conclusion that it is not possible to isolate a border or ridge of a muscle that is noncontiguously innovated.
@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE Mike himself talks about the difference in doing a palms up pull down, a bi-articuclate movement leading to full length and even contractions versus preacher or standing curls, which you feel the strain more in the muscle belly.
@@TheScamr That's also true, which also speaks to the fact that supplemental isolation work for the biceps was neither necessary nor desirable. He felt the pulldown stressed the biceps more uniformly from both ends - but this was said primarily to quell fears from certain quarters about whether or not the consolidation routine would stress muscle groups such as the biceps, given that there was no "direct" biceps exercises (such as curls of various stripes) performed. His point being that the biceps receive better than adequate stimulation from the close-grip pulldowns - both heads of the biceps are activated during the exercise.
John do you think only doing one horizontal push (like dips) would be enough to maximize medial delt development like is programmed in the consolidation program? I know the anterior delts will be hit well enough but not sure about the side delts.
It could be too much overlap. Hard to say. I should think that the lateral head of the deltoid would be activated to some degree at least in three of the four exercises in the consolidated program (deadlifts, pulldowns and dips).
Hi John, I train very hard and my muscles will get exhausted so much, that I can’t go to another exercise and reach failure in my bigger muscles. Any help on this?
John, If I want to lose fat and I'm in a calorie deficit, should I add cardio? If so, should I do cardio daily or how many days a week? I'm doing the consolidation routine and I'm planning to do low intensity jogging (as Mentzer prescribed). I've seen it working on me but how many days per week would you suggest with the consolidated program?
@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE Yes Sir, I know that but (I'm sorry for not explaining my question further.) my question was how many days should I do cardio in a week if I want to lose fat? Should I even do cardio at all if I'm performing the consolidation program? I know the way of cardio for fat loss, that is low intensity.
You will only know by following your progress chart. If you find that doing cardio every day (even low intensity) results in your workout numbers stagnating or regressing, then cut it back to four days a week. If this doesn't see an increase in your numbers, then cut it back to two or three days a week. You have to go by your own numbers in your training journal. Anything else (including suggestions by me) is merely guesswork without data.
This doesnt make sense, basics physics , cranes , bridges , structure, have braking points and stress fractures. Incline Bench presses , stress the upper chest , decline Bench press , stresses the lower pecs.. have I misunderstood the video?
Perhaps. The main points of the video: 1. Muscles can get bigger but not change their inherent shape. 2. Owing to noncontiguous innervation, you cannot isolate a border or ridge of the pectoral or abdominal muscles. 3. Putting a muscle in a position where it’s joint/s is/are exposed to shear forces won’t change its shape and is inherently dangerous. Cranes and bridges aren’t innervated, but the example of the hinge on the fence speaks to physics and shear forces.
Arnold was a volume trainer and made fast progress and won 7 MR Olympia titles. Mike Mentzer initially trained with volume then switched to hit training with Arthur Jones. He won no Olympia titles. Both used peds. Being the best bodybuilder in the world means you need size and shape in abundance and this is where volume training comes in. Look at Arnolds pre contest training. Even more exercises from as many different angles as possible to bring out all the shape from a muscle. Both systems work. I do not believe one size fits all and this has been played out by professional bodybuilders who are all mainly volume trainers. The only noticeable exception is Dorian Yates.
The exception disproves the "rule." Shape is genetically inherited and, for reasons indicated in the video, not something that can be altered to any appreciable degree through training, apart from enlarging upon whatever muscle shape you are born with. Mr. Olympia titles, when commercial interests are at play (as they most certainly were when Arnold was competing - indeed, in one contest, the 1971 Mr. Olympia, Joe Weider disqualified three of the four competitors from competing and Arnold won because he was the only competitor in the competition).
I train More toward HIT style than volume training. But this is too much of a theorethical approach to using different angles. Practice and experience have decisively shown it to have it's merites. Not to mention modern scientific insights.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE There are certain studies that indicate strongly that the activity of the different heads of a muscle does change , depending on the part of the movement and the angle. Probably why muscles have multiple heads in the first place.
Thanks for your post. In most of these studies, that only seems to apply if there is no weight, or very, very light weight involved for the muscle group to contract against. Once the load or resistance imposed on the muscle is significant (as in the research of A.A. Travill, who performed electromyography on the triceps), all heads of the muscle come into play. While it’s possible (in some instances) to place more emphasis on a particular head of a muscle, this is not something desirable, particularly when there exist exercises that will activate all heads of a muscle. Rather, it speaks to an inefficient way to train a particular muscle group (as indicated in the video). In the case of biceps, when you bend the elbow, both heads work together to flex the biceps. As a result, it is impossible to completely isolate either the short or long head . Every curl variation that you perform will activate both heads since they both share the same insertion point. With respect to the triceps (another multi-headed muscle group), research by A.A. Travill, indicates that the three heads of the triceps contribute different degrees of work depending upon the level of resistance imposed on the muscle. During the course of normal activities the medial head of the triceps does practically all the work, with the lateral head aiding a little and the long head doing virtually no work. But that all changes as soon as resistance is imposed upon the muscle. As soon as a meaningful amount of resistance is involved, the lateral and long heads of the triceps become much more heavily recruited, with the medial head still heavily involved. So, again as indicated in the video, the load employed in your exercises will engage all heads of a muscle if those heads share the same point of insertion. The genetic factor comes into play here as well. Let’s assume that you can isolate a particular head and you wish to develop that to the exclusion of the others. That doesn’t change the inherent shape of the muscle, or the shape of the various heads of the muscle, but rather over develops one head to the exclusion of the others. Again, this is not something desirable for somebody who seeks full muscular development. But if the muscle is fully developed; that is, all the heads are fully developed, the muscle will still have its inherent shape. Meaning, you cannot change that inherent shape irrespective of the angle that you train the muscle again, you can either fully develop all involved heads, or, in the example, one head is developed while the remaining heads are under developed.
You are strawmanning. Different exercises are not used to "shape the muscle". Rather the purpose is to target a particular group more than another. So for example train the upper chest more than the middle or lower chest or outer bicep more than the inner bicep with particular exercises.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE I feel like a fool for commenting because I saw the whole video after that point and you explained your point well enough. Still think there is a case for nuanced exercise selection to try and improve lagging parts but yeah its only something advanced bodybuilders would be concerned about not beginers or intermediates like myself.
Can you explain why certain exercises cause extreme Dom's in certain area's of the muscle with certain exercises John? Example hack squat lower quad Dom,wide grip dips,outer chest Dom. French press outer TRI close bench inner TRI.
I love this channel. Best shape of my life thanks to high intensity training. Awesome information.
It works. I can take 10/12/14 days off and make progress on the next workout ! I have proved it to myself .
I have been working as a coach for many years and noticed for myself and my clients that if you skip a workout for a week or two, your strength immediately drops! If a person has squeezed a 100 kg barbell 10 times, then after resting he does 6-8 times! Long rest may not harm muscle growth, but it relaxes the nervous system, and the body cannot make the necessary efforts, which leads to reduced results!
@ I did it multiple times. Once rested 9 days, did 2 more reps, then 10 days, did 2 more reps and then when I rested 12 I actually did 3+ reps on multiple exercises. I have no reason to lie
Even if I could do that (and forty years have proved I can't)@@PureFred , I wouldn't because progress would be so slow. The faster I can recover and grow, the faster my progress is. One or two reps progress every 25 hours is way better than adding 3 reps in 12 days.
Since growth has to be stimulated first, once growth has occurred waiting longer defies any logic since there is no reason for further growth to occur until further growth has been stimulated.
I have gone over 12 consecutive weeks with no lack in progress due to Mike's routine. Best results and progress I've tracked or seen in my weight history
Excellent information. This as well as over training is why 90% of people in any gym look the same because they simply follow the masses.
You don't even start to see over training unless they do 30+ sets a week per muscle group
@@franklincone4636not over training but just bunch of junk sets. Wasting time.
Thank You, John, for giving such a detailed answer to the question that I asked in your last video of Mike's leg workout. I greatly appreciate you and your concern for the modern bodybuilder.
I’ve trained the HDHIT style for 18+months
Previously training 5times/week, 6 exercises, 3 sets of 10. Now it’s once every 72hours, 4-6 sets per workout.
As a natural, knowing how to and wanting to train to failure, this method has been a revelation.
Just look around the gym this evening: people are either performing 3 texts of 10 or are juicing…
And has it been working?
You got that right lots of texting 💬
Have you made progress?
When i started with this program.. like MM said don't be gym rat .. have training every 72hrs.. what to do 2 day.. so much off.. can't wait to go to the gym... after some time.. oh it's gym time already... now.. i workout 1 time per week and I am growing and weight or reps go up each time. And I see a progress . Im so happy and when u really know hot to do 1 set to failure u are really tired. Only thing i regret that i didn't find Joe Little earlier. Damn. 💪
@ once a week for someone advanced is a good frequency I think.
It’s a shame Mike is gone. I don’t know why I’m getting so many videos about this Dr. Mike guy with the shaved head who is everything Mike Mentzer is against. I would have loved to see debates between the two.
Dr Mike Israetel is a misinformant and a clown
That turtle freak is badmouthing people to gain followers and in return make money.
Well they have come a long way since mentzer. New tech and trials have shown that volume does stimulate growth as well.
My 3 biggest take away from Mentzer are 1) intensity equally stimulation for growth.
2) ample rest is needed to allow the growth to happen.
3 ) carbs hold more water allowing the muscle to swell and fuel the work out.
Arthur Jones would obliterate Dr Mike in a debate.
@@ironray123 debating what ? Are they in disagreement?
This is gold! Thank you Jhon.
love it 🙌 awesome video
Such an informative video! I really like it. Thank you for your work!
One thing I’m still unsure about is whether standing bicep curls with a straight bar (or dumbbells) are truly the best exercise. In the lower and upper parts of the movement, not all muscle fibers seem to be recruited effectively. The most challenging phase occurs when the arm is parallel to the floor, as this is where the tension is highest due to gravity. Before and after this point, the resistance decreases significantly during both the concentric and eccentric phases.
Mike always emphasized achieving maximum contraction. Standing curls, however, don’t fully provide this. To compensate, lifters may could lean their upper body backward or forward while performing the exercise, which might compromise form. Alternatively, you could focus on other exercises designed to maximize contraction and eccentric stretch. For instance, Mike suggested a superset of bicep curls followed by close-grip, palms-up pulldowns in one of his books. This combination might ensure optimal stimulation for muscle growth.
Learning new things everyday. No doubt on this topic❤️😌
Crucially important general knowledge for all resistance training!
This is pretty enlightening, John, thank you!
Mike's chest routine has a pre-exhaust superset for the chest with incline press followed after flyes. Considering that there's no benefit in fiber recruitment to doing two different exercises, would it be pointless to perform these two exercises outside of a SuperSet? Ie: resting a minute before performing the other.
Good question. I suspect outside of a superset there would be no reason to. I think it also speaks to the sufficiency of only doing the one exercise (dips) in the Consolidated Program as well.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE I get and agree with the principle. Why given the argument, would he prescribe incline over flat press if generally people can push more weight with flat or even decline press.
Apart from weight, another factor of intensity is distance. That is, the range through which you move the resistance. I believe Mike preferred the incline press owing to it having a greater range of motion (somewhere between a military press and a bench press) than the flat bench press. Mike sought to work each muscle group over its fullest range of motion. Either exercise (he recommended flat bench presses for those who didn't have access to an incline press) will work the entire pectoral complex, however, owing to noncontiguous innervation.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE Sound reasoning there. Thanks for the reply.
@@yezzzsir You’re very welcome. Thanks for your post.
I'm good. Lobe Mike and read all his books and implemented training. I need more exercises.
The video makes sense, but I still have one question. If it's true that you can't specifically target the upper chest with exercises, why does the upper chest feel rock solid when adducting the humerus toward the sternum at a high angle, yet feels soft when doing the same motion at a low angle? For example, during dips, the lower chest feels very firm, but during an incline press, the lower chest doesn't seem to activate as much or get particularly hard.
It seems logical that the whole pec muscle would activate uniformly, but the pec fibers run in different directions. If all the fibers contracted equally, wouldn’t some of their functions cancel each other out? For instance, the lower pec fibers might counteract the upper chest fibers that are involved in shoulder flexion.
I'd really like to hear your thoughts on this!
Thanks for your post. I think the differential you indicated goes away when you are contracting hard, as against resistance. If you do that same experiment, but flex your pec as hard as you can with your hand above your head and then moving it down to your hip, you won’t feel much difference in the hardness of the pectoral muscle overall, nor is one area of it harder than another. The various heads can be uniquely activated without resistance, doing day-to-day tasks with just the weight of the arm. However, when resistance is involved, more fibres are recruited. Perhaps more significantly, in a study involving electromyography by Barnett et al, published in the Journal of Strength & Conditioning Research in November 1995,. The researchers concluded that: “the clavicular head of the pectoralis major was no more active during the incline bench press than during the horizontal one.”
@ Thank you for the detailed answer! I appreciate it greatly. It makes more sense now. However, would this not apply to other muscles with multiple heads such as the deltoids? One can clearly bias the heads of the deltoid. But what you are saying makes sense as I also have studied muscle physiology. However when it comes to the deltoids, one can significantly bias a specific head of the deltoids and I cannot seem to understand why this principle does not apply to the chest but to the delts.
Noncontiguous innervation doesn’t apply to each and every muscle group. Rather, it applies to muscle groups that perform a general function. The deltoids consist of three heads, each of which performs a different function. You could not activate the posterior deltoid by doing seated rows, for example. This is why Mike recommended lateral raises for the lateral head of the deltoid; bent over raises for the posterior head of the deltoid, while the anterior deltoid was worked in the exercises listed for the chest workout. I don’t have exhaustive knowledge on innervation, but noncontiguous innervation does apply to the abdominals, the pectorals, as well as the quadriceps, hamstrings and biceps and triceps, I believe (I may be wrong about some of these muscle groups).
@ Thank you! You are awesome dude :). Very informative, keep up the good work!
Thanks very much.
Thank you for the video on a very important topic, Mr. John Little.
Allow me ask you a question on the topic:
If the goal of training is to recruit and fatigue as many fibers as possible, would the same mentality of using only a few exercises to stimulate as much muscle hypertrophy and strength as possible apply to compound and isolation exercises?
For example: if you perform 1 set to failure of a Chest Press and Shoulder Press, you will have recruited and fatigued all the muscle fibers in the pectorails, deltoids (mostly anterior and medial deltoids), and triceps, so there is no need to perform a triceps extension or isolation/single joint exercises for the deltoids (such as lateral raises)? If you train to failure with a significant load, suing compound exercises (Chest PRes, Bench Press, Chin ups/Pulldowns, Rows, Leg Press, Deadlifts/SLDL), is there any need or reason, to add isolation/single joint exercises such as Biceps Curls, Triceps Extensions, Lateral Raises, Leg Extensions?
Thank you very much
Greetings from a Brazilian fan!
Thanks very much for your post. You raise a good point. In reality there probably does not exist a need for the supplemental exercises. There was a study performed recently to see if adding supplemental arm exercises to a basic routine consisting of seated rows, bench presses, squats, etc. would result in developing bigger arms. At the end of the study, the researchers were surprised to discover that there was no difference between the group that just did the basic exercises and the group that did the basic exercise exercises plus additional arm exercise exercises. Arm growth was the same.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE Thank you for replying to my commmetn. I saw a similar study by Dr. Paulo Gentil(Brazilain Scientis who worked with Dr.Fisher and Dr.Steele) on the topic.
It makes sense for the biceps, triceps and shoulders. I am skeptical about hamsting develpement, since the Leg Press or Squat doesnt addrees the main function of the hamstring. (I usually peform a Knee flextion execise )
Thank you again.!
It’s true that a compound leg movement would not necessarily work the hamstrings directly. However, the hamstrings have two heads, just like the biceps of the upper arm, and also are noncontiguosly innervated; meaning, that when you perform a hamstring exercise, both heads of the hamstring are engaged. The hamstrings do receive some stimulation from compound leg exercises, but I suspect it is antagonistic.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE Thanks for the explanation. I'm sure that if someone did only leg presses or squats for the lower body, he or she would increase the strength and size of the Their Hamstring, but it's hard to believe that this tehy would maximize it's size and strength without always stressing the muscle in it's primary function.
You bring up an important topic; that is, “maximizing” the size of a muscle group. It is generally a phrase that is used as conjecture, as nobody knows what the potential size of a muscle group will be ahead of time. As Mike said, it is the expression of a possibility that can be assessed accurately only in retrospect. Given the huge role that genetics play in developing above normal levels of muscle size, I strongly suspect that if your hamstrings are not bigger after performing a year or two worth of compound leg exercises, then you may not have the genetic potential to develop large hamstrings. The idea of maximizing muscle size implies that if you just have the right exercise or combination of exercises, whatever muscle group you wish will develop to a preconceived size that fits with a preconceived vision. Unfortunately, genetics simply doesn’t work that way. If you look at photographs of Mike when he was 15, almost every muscle group is fully developed. His legs in particular were huge. I have a client in my gym who is 63 years old and has an 18 1/2 inch calf. He’s had it all his life and has never done a calf exercise in his life. It’s the incredible fibre density within someone’s muscles that Indicates their size potential. Mike even said his father had bigger calves than he did and all he did was mow the lawn. When this type of genetic endowment is married with resistance training, even indirect stimulation is sufficient to develop muscle size that is mind-boggling. Whether it is “maximum” would seem to me a never-ending and unanswerable quest, as there is always something else you might have done that might’ve squeezed out just a little bit more growth. Or so we think.
Great video John so much information and logic and yes there will be scepticism as always but it shines a light on the massive waste of time in gyms. I have one question with Mike's recommendations on the chest super set is there a reason related to this video that Mike recommends incline press . I use a nautilus chest machine press that operates straight away from the body is this acceptable.
Thanks for the kind words. Yes, a Nautilus chest press is fine for reasons indicated in the video regarding noncontiguous innervation.
@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE Thanks John appreciate that as the nautilus press allows me to fail without a spotter and safety 👍
Amen 🙏 Mike.
Very good job and topic . Thank you john for speaking out all these things we wanted to also but we couldnt methodically share them with the people the people also are so brainwashed in the old traditions and myths that sometimes they are offensive in the different point of view .
I want to request you to do a small video speaking about the pace tempo of the reps and the range of motion . I am telling this cause i have a question as a gymnastic trainer we used to say that when the weight becomes high inevitably you loose some of the exersice form. So if i go to heavy load with the protocols reps isnt it impossible to keep the 4-2-4 (possitive-isometric-negative) pace any more ? I have to make it quicker can you give us more info on this topic?
Hi, this is very interesting content. However, I got a bit confused with a statement in
9:06 about irrelevance of hand spacing. I found in one of Mike's book that "A closer hand spacing causes the pecs to stretch and work over a greater range of motion". That sentence would imply that hand space is actually something?
Have I mixed some principles or misunderstood?
Generally, the point was that changing to a close-grip on a curl versus a normal grip is a trivial consideration compared to the load your muscles are contracting against. What Mike was referring to was a hand spacing in the incline press; a closer hand spacing with your elbows flared out provides a great range of motion for the pectoral muscles, whereas a close-grip or wide-grip in the barbell curl doesn't alter the range of motion of the curl.
@ Thank you, would it then make sense to say that: whenever your hand spacing or angle you choose during some exercises (i.e. sitting position on leg press) has positive influence on range of motion, it's considered as meaningful for end results?
Yes, providing it doesn’t bring shear forces to bear on the joint.
High intensity training truly beats the approach our Strength and conditioning 15:51 coach had us doing in college.
It's an interesting topic. The correct answer lies somewhere in the middle. A muscle group like the deltoids could never be fully developed with only one exercise, because the fibers are designed to pull the humerus in so many different directions to accomodate all of the mobility we have at the joint.
There are three separate muscles that comprise the shoulder, so the same principle applies. You don’t, for example, need two different types of lateral raises in order to maximall stimulate the lateral head of the deltoid. Ditto for the anterior portion and the posterior portion.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE But this is where the lines become a bit blurred. When exactly do we distinguish one segment of a muscle from another? For example the clavicular head of the pecs can be distinguished from the sternal head of the pecs, despite their similarities. It's all somewhat arbitrary. You could even differentiate the thoracic-origin lat fibers from the lumbar-origin lat fibers from the iliac-origin lat fibers. Where does the distinction end?
@ Good points. I think you have to trace the innervation of the muscle complex. Pec Minor and Pec Major tend to work together in contraction owing to noncontiguous innervation. Certain back muscles also come into play apart from the lats when you train the lats. I haven’t done an in-depth dive into the innervation of the various muscle groups, but I suspect the answer lies there.
Sir it's been 4 months i go to the gym and i train 3 times a week mon wednesday and Friday. Monday- shoulder, chest and triceps
Wednesday- Back and biceps
Friday- legs
Plus i follow the exercises of Dorian yates and I am completely natural. So can I get a good physique
I've got a question: should i train the day i am supppsed to be back in the gym, if before that thay, while resting, i didn't eat enough and/or didn't drink enough water? Or should i add rest day(s)?
You always want to be on your 100% condition, in my opinion, to maximize the stimulus. If you're not feeling completely recovered you can take another day.
@@GreenKnight1294I agree, but eat at maintenance. If not you'll gain fat. The reason I say this is because some people think rest days let you eat anything.
Why would we have several heads of muscle, such as the clavicular and sternal portions of the pecs, if one exercise does the same job? Optimal intensity can only be achieved by drawing the origin towards the insertion of a particular muscle group. A military press will not efficiently work the sternal portion of the pecs for example.
We have several heads of a muscle so that maximum muscle fiber recruitment (read: maximum energy output) isn't the go-to for your body when you pick up a pencil. All of the heads tend to come into play depending upon the load that needs to overcome. To answer your points in turn:
1.) Different muscles have different heads (biceps =2, triceps = 3, quadriceps = 4, etc.) In the case of the chest, there is 1. Sternal and clavicular doesn’t refer to heads in this instance but rather to origin and insertion points of a muscle group. An exercise such as the flye or bench press involves the gross muscle owing to noncontiguous innervation.
2.) Intensity refers to one’s percentage of possible momentary effort. It is “optimal” according to how close you take an exercise to the point of momentary muscular failure. This requires load and (obviously) effort on an exercise. Minus sufficient load, you can draw the origin towards the insertion of a muscle group with an extremely light load and the intensity will not be “optimal.” You can also fully engage a muscle group by an isometric contraction where there is no movement at all and generate optimal intensity. Again, in the example of the bench press, if the upper arm is away from the torso at the start but moves toward the midline during the contraction, that is sufficient to engage the pectoral muscle (pec minor and major).
3.) The pecs are involved in the military press owing to noncontiguous innervation. If you are merely lifting your hands in the air, however, not many fibres are required or recruited. If, however, you are performing heavy military presses, your pectorals are strongly engaged in the exercise. The very fact that the pecs are involved at all in the military press speaks to the fact of noncontiguous innervation.
Big-heads are less likely to change @HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE It's necessary to turn your back on the audience to lead the orchestra.
To reiterate@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE , presumably each muscle head has a slightly different function, otherwise we wouldn't need multiple heads.
Isometric contractions emanate growth from a specific region of the muscle@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE, not the entire length which necessitates a full range of motion.
You can start with an hypothesis and develop a theory, but that doesn't ensure that that theory is complete.
@@Starbreaker2012 While some studies show isometric exercise results in position-specific strength increases, many don’t and show a moderate to strong correlation between isometric and dynamic performance. MedX research showed this response varied between individuals, with most people having a position-specific response (strength increased within about 15 degrees of the position trained isometrically) while others had a general response (strength increased over the full range of motion of the exercise regardless of the position trained isometrically). If what you are suggesting is a law of physiology, then there would be no exceptions to it and everyone tested would only be stronger at the position the isometric contraction was performed at. It has been suggested that position-specific strength increases on tests reported in some studies have more to do with neural adaptations (motor learning or skill in performing a given movement) than general improvements in muscular strength.
This is one were I think Mike was just to early to see science develop. We know from EMG feedback that different movements activate the different fibers of large muscle groups differently. Particularly when those muscle groups have various origins.
The Pec Major has a clavicular, sternal, and abdominal head. That is 3 movements to emphasize each head of what appears to be one muscle.
There is a reason why Mike's program has Incline Bench, Chest flies, and Dips. It hits each head of the Pec.
@@TheScamr It’s true that different movements activate different heads of a muscle, but this is way more pronounced when little or no resistance is employed during the movement. As soon as a meaningful resistance is imposed on the muscle, all of the heads come into play as indicated in the video as a result of how the pectoral muscle (for example) is noncontiguously innervated. Electromyography was cited in several studies in the video, which support the conclusion that it is not possible to isolate a border or ridge of a muscle that is noncontiguously innovated.
@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE Mike himself talks about the difference in doing a palms up pull down, a bi-articuclate movement leading to full length and even contractions versus preacher or standing curls, which you feel the strain more in the muscle belly.
@@TheScamr That's also true, which also speaks to the fact that supplemental isolation work for the biceps was neither necessary nor desirable. He felt the pulldown stressed the biceps more uniformly from both ends - but this was said primarily to quell fears from certain quarters about whether or not the consolidation routine would stress muscle groups such as the biceps, given that there was no "direct" biceps exercises (such as curls of various stripes) performed. His point being that the biceps receive better than adequate stimulation from the close-grip pulldowns - both heads of the biceps are activated during the exercise.
John do you think only doing one horizontal push (like dips) would be enough to maximize medial delt development like is programmed in the consolidation program? I know the anterior delts will be hit well enough but not sure about the side delts.
Asking because my chest and tricep development has progressed weekly but lateral raise progress has stalled - I’m thinking too much overlap?
It could be too much overlap. Hard to say. I should think that the lateral head of the deltoid would be activated to some degree at least in three of the four exercises in the consolidated program (deadlifts, pulldowns and dips).
Hi John, I train very hard and my muscles will get exhausted so much, that I can’t go to another exercise and reach failure in my bigger muscles. Any help on this?
take rest day(s)
John, If I want to lose fat and I'm in a calorie deficit, should I add cardio? If so, should I do cardio daily or how many days a week? I'm doing the consolidation routine and I'm planning to do low intensity jogging (as Mentzer prescribed). I've seen it working on me but how many days per week would you suggest with the consolidated program?
Mike recommended performing the consolidation routine once every 7 to 9 days, depending upon your personal rate of recovery and adaptation.
@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE Yes Sir, I know that but (I'm sorry for not explaining my question further.) my question was how many days should I do cardio in a week if I want to lose fat? Should I even do cardio at all if I'm performing the consolidation program? I know the way of cardio for fat loss, that is low intensity.
You will only know by following your progress chart. If you find that doing cardio every day (even low intensity) results in your workout numbers stagnating or regressing, then cut it back to four days a week. If this doesn't see an increase in your numbers, then cut it back to two or three days a week. You have to go by your own numbers in your training journal. Anything else (including suggestions by me) is merely guesswork without data.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE Oh. Will do!
How does this apply if one is on gear?
You’ll likely recover faster and therefore will require less rest.
This doesnt make sense, basics physics , cranes , bridges , structure, have braking points and stress fractures. Incline Bench presses , stress the upper chest , decline Bench press , stresses the lower pecs.. have I misunderstood the video?
Perhaps. The main points of the video:
1. Muscles can get bigger but not change their inherent shape.
2. Owing to noncontiguous innervation, you cannot isolate a border or ridge of the pectoral or abdominal muscles.
3. Putting a muscle in a position where it’s joint/s is/are exposed to shear forces won’t change its shape and is inherently dangerous.
Cranes and bridges aren’t innervated, but the example of the hinge on the fence speaks to physics and shear forces.
Arnold was a volume trainer and made fast progress and won 7 MR Olympia titles. Mike Mentzer initially trained with volume then switched to hit training with Arthur Jones. He won no Olympia titles. Both used peds. Being the best bodybuilder in the world means you need size and shape in abundance and this is where volume training comes in. Look at Arnolds pre contest training. Even more exercises from as many different angles as possible to bring out all the shape from a muscle. Both systems work. I do not believe one size fits all and this has been played out by professional bodybuilders who are all mainly volume trainers. The only noticeable exception is Dorian Yates.
The exception disproves the "rule." Shape is genetically inherited and, for reasons indicated in the video, not something that can be altered to any appreciable degree through training, apart from enlarging upon whatever muscle shape you are born with. Mr. Olympia titles, when commercial interests are at play (as they most certainly were when Arnold was competing - indeed, in one contest, the 1971 Mr. Olympia, Joe Weider disqualified three of the four competitors from competing and Arnold won because he was the only competitor in the competition).
A vast array of exercises are unnecessary and counterproductive
I train More toward HIT style than volume training. But this is too much of a theorethical approach to using different angles. Practice and experience have decisively shown it to have it's merites. Not to mention modern scientific insights.
I don’t believe that modern scientific insights have indicated the muscles have been innervated differently over the past 20 years.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE There are certain studies that indicate strongly that the activity of the different heads of a muscle does change , depending on the part of the movement and the angle. Probably why muscles have multiple heads in the first place.
Thanks for your post. In most of these studies, that only seems to apply if there is no weight, or very, very light weight involved for the muscle group to contract against. Once the load or resistance imposed on the muscle is significant (as in the research of A.A. Travill, who performed electromyography on the triceps), all heads of the muscle come into play.
While it’s possible (in some instances) to place more emphasis on a particular head of a muscle, this is not something desirable, particularly when there exist exercises that will activate all heads of a muscle. Rather, it speaks to an inefficient way to train a particular muscle group (as indicated in the video). In the case of biceps, when you bend the elbow, both heads work together to flex the biceps. As a result, it is impossible to completely isolate either the short or long head . Every curl variation that you perform will activate both heads since they both share the same insertion point. With respect to the triceps (another multi-headed muscle group), research by A.A. Travill, indicates that the three heads of the triceps contribute different degrees of work depending upon the level of resistance imposed on the muscle. During the course of normal activities the medial head of the triceps does practically all the work, with the lateral head aiding a little and the long head doing virtually no work. But that all changes as soon as resistance is imposed upon the muscle. As soon as a meaningful amount of resistance is involved, the lateral and long heads of the triceps become much more heavily recruited, with the medial head still heavily involved. So, again as indicated in the video, the load employed in your exercises will engage all heads of a muscle if those heads share the same point of insertion. The genetic factor comes into play here as well. Let’s assume that you can isolate a particular head and you wish to develop that to the exclusion of the others. That doesn’t change the inherent shape of the muscle, or the shape of the various heads of the muscle, but rather over develops one head to the exclusion of the others. Again, this is not something desirable for somebody who seeks full muscular development. But if the muscle is fully developed; that is, all the heads are fully developed, the muscle will still have its inherent shape. Meaning, you cannot change that inherent shape irrespective of the angle that you train the muscle again, you can either fully develop all involved heads, or, in the example, one head is developed while the remaining heads are under developed.
You are strawmanning. Different exercises are not used to "shape the muscle". Rather the purpose is to target a particular group more than another. So for example train the upper chest more than the middle or lower chest or outer bicep more than the inner bicep with particular exercises.
As the video explains, you cannot separately train the upper and lower chest because of noncontiguous innervation.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE I feel like a fool for commenting because I saw the whole video after that point and you explained your point well enough. Still think there is a case for nuanced exercise selection to try and improve lagging parts but yeah its only something advanced bodybuilders would be concerned about not beginers or intermediates like myself.
No worries. Glad you found the video to be of interest.
I think John little doesn't want to respond to my comment exactly for the reason that I stated in the comment! That's rather ironic.
Can you explain why certain exercises cause extreme Dom's in certain area's of the muscle with certain exercises John? Example hack squat lower quad Dom,wide grip dips,outer chest Dom. French press outer TRI close bench inner TRI.
Plenty of dumbbells in bodybuilding training.