A Major Suspension Upgrade, But... We Found Another Issue
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ค. 2024
- This was a lot of work but the improvement in ride quality is AMAZING! Make sure to contact Archive Garage for you 1st gen suspension needs, Accutune for amazing custom tuned shocks, and Ruff Stuff Specialties for many other parts including crossover steering and tie rods.
The Ruff Stuff Specialties cross over steering was really good but if you do order it make sure you have a welder and a grinder. They send a blank tube and the tie rod ends because there are so many variations of axles so you have to customize it a little.
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It takes a humility to admit mistakes, but with your help I have realized a mistake I made. Many of you have made me aware that cutting and adding the S curve to the drag link is not a good idea. I have done some research and I agree and thank you for your input. I will be addressing that in the next OG crew cab video where we fix the steering issue. This is why I love this community.
Just needs a track bar parallel to your crossover steering bar so you have proper axle side to side control. Leaf springs are not designed to take side forces.
Brian, tell me more about this. All the reading I've done does not indicate the need for a panhard bar, especially with only 3" lift springs.
@@decentgarage well the only thing holding against your steering forces is the rubber bushings in your leaf springs and your shackles neither of which is fully rigid. Look at an early 2000 super duty ford they had leaf springs and cross over steering. They also have a track bar. They didn’t add that expense because they wanted to make it nice it was because it’s the only way to make it consistently drive decent for long term. Another issue might be that your frame is not really designed for side forces in that direction so there is more deflection there as well than there should be. You need bracing from a flange to a cross member.
This gentleman is totally correct period and i've been doing this for fifty years...
When you do crossover you probably want to add a steering box brace behind the frame to keep the frame from cracking due to all of the stress put on it from the box.
Bingo, that's one of the issues I'm going to address.
The GroPro footage underneath the truck was cool to see the suspension doing it’s thing.
Just wait, I have footage like that of the stock setup, this setup and Charlie's 3 link setup that I will compare!
Can’t wait to see the comparison Tim
Right on
Good to see other first gen guys getting after it and making their trucks better than new!
One step at a time
As far as removing nuts that are stuck in sockets, my method is pretty similar to yours. Thread the nut back on the stud and wiggle it off. If that doesn't work, pinch it in a vise and knock it out with a hammer and punch💪 Hint: A little profanity goes a long way in those situations😁
Shes looking pretty oily and greasy on the under side after the last road trip!
Haha i love how you do everything in your driveway of your nice suburban subdivision. How much hassle does the HOA give you? Ive got the same kinda setup here in grand junction CO! Its a Nice neighborhood and I’m always out in the driveway grinding, welding and working on something lol. The old people don’t much bother i try and not be out late grinding and banging on something, or having to start up the cummins to late if i don’t have to and they leave me alone.
With that king pin dana 60 you can do some knarly cool High steer cross over steering with DOM seamless and heim joints. I noticed you used tie rod ends, get rid of those and there wont be so much play in the steering! If you want to upgrade bullet/nuke proof it get some nice rebuildable hiem joints! Ballistic fabrication! Check them out they have the double sheer high steer arms and trunion caps all built in, and the ballistic fabric ballistic hiem joints.
Ahh i wish inwas there helping you with this project kinda stuff, this is like my forte area of specialty! Ya od get rid of the sway bar! You don’t need it. I didn’t run one on my first gen cummins, or on my ‘98 chevy half ton converted one ton f/r that was lifted 15”. I did run a track bar, but not a sway bar.
I would get a little more of a droped 2wd pitman arm, the less angle on the drag link the less bump steer youll have. Your not super lifted real high which is good.
Id recomend getting rid of the tie rod ends on the drag link. Hiem joint ends will be more solid!
A new PSC steering box! Your old box is prolly more than likely wasted and not helping all the play.
Id get some kinda track bar setup. Like i said your not lifted real huge and high but a track bar is gunna help keep the axle centered under the truck, and will prevent bump steer and death wobble.
I had a pretty simple setup on my on ton mobster truck, the i bolt top plate had a braket mount for the panhard/ track bar. Then a simple mount on the inner frame somewhere. You want it to ideally be the same angle as your drag link. Or as close as possible.
-but yeah 100% percent of all that play in the steering is going to be those cheap auto parts store tie rod ends you used on the drag link. Those things wouldnt last a few thousand likes and they’ll be thrashed. Heims! Delsphere telfon rebuildable hiem joints! I wish i could show you all the stiff I’ve built over the years and show you. I wish i was there to help! Haha like i said stuff like this is my forte!
Yep, I've got some oil leaks I need to address for sure. She's caked
I always wanna clean and paint anything I work on but that caked on oil layer will protect the underside of an old vehicle. Sounds stupid and maybe it is, but that's what i've noticed . There's some old dailys that should be rust buckets underneath but the oil leaks have coated everything and saved it.
@@joshuam122 amen to that!
Waiting to install my Sky's crossover kit until I see your next video lol I Have already installed shackle box and the Archive Rear shackles!!! Steering box is loosened!
Do it! I can almost grunted that you wont run into what was causing me issues. Mine is fixed and feels great.
I needed this video VERRYYYY badly!!! I literally have all of these upgrades laid out in my shop floor to install over the next coming week Thanks again!!!
Wait till my next video where I show what I did wrong here and what im missing
I'm working on getting this setup from Archive Garage along with their kit for Chevy springs in the rear for my 93 W250. Great video, and stoked to hear it makes a big difference. Keep the videos coming, we love them. Interested to see your steering fix.
Wow! Perfect timing. Need an driver side upper control arm and ball joints and bushings!! Whew! I have 2WD though... 🤷♂🤷♂🤷♂
Those beautiful boots are not Decent Garage approved CROCKS!!! 😂 Nice work though man! Always love the content!
If you look close I was wearing my Crocs for a lot of it 😁
Yeah i made the mistake of commenting that before the crocks came on. My bad!
Damn you stole my comment😂😂 I was thinking Tim finally wised up to proper work footwear😏😉
@@nly467 lol I do wear boots quite a bit more now especially when welding and grinding. Ruined too many socks 🤣
@@decentgarage 🤣🤣💪🏻
Looks Awesome! Can't wait to get mine on the road.
Yeah keep me posted on how you like it. I'm impressed
Awesome work on both the front end upgrade to the OG Crew Cab and making the video! Look forward to seeing what's going on with the play in the steering, I'm betting either an issue with caster setting due to the new spring configuration or a worn out steering gearbox.
The best back ground on TH-cam. Great video.
just curious why you dont do the 3 link setup like that other build you are doing?
I wanted to give this a try for budget reason and also to keep a variety within my content.
Hey Tim, does your truck have 3.55 or 4.10 rear end? In your videos it sounds like it is howling along pretty good. Not that I'm complaining, the more Cummins sound in the videos, the better👍👍👍 please keep it coming!
3.55 driving will holding a gimbal and shifting a manual trans is not easy 🤣
@@decentgarage LOL no complaints from me!
Leafs in the front 😢sweet truck and set up tho good video as well
"I'm actually pretty SHOCKed how nice it rides for a leaf-sprung truck" - haha.😅
Haha
🤦♂️🤣
Many years ago I believe I was the first to use ORD's parts on my '93 ClubCab, their draglink comes pre-bent for crossmember clearance. If you didn't sleeve yours when you cut and bent it, it's a weak point, it may be okay, but I wouldn't trust it off road at all. The frame needs to be boxed behind the steering box too. Use heavy wall tubing to go from the new plate to the original frame for the bolts so they don't collapse when you tighten the box. Nice truck, wish mine was a crew.
You think with it being 1/4" DOM tubing it's a weak point?
@@decentgarage Did you sleeve it?
@@Rubiflake what do you mean by sleeve it?
ive got a metal rod i use to get the stuck nuts out. Its actually the same rod i use for door pins. Man i love that rod.
Would have liked to see you driving with no sway bar first before the upgrades. Just getting rid of the sway bar will make a huge difference in ride quality (I find)
I’m sure between that the new leafs/shocks it was a huge improvement. Love your vids just planning to do the NWF crossover steering on my rig.
Agreed. Has I known I would need to remove the sway bar I would have don't that for sure.
It's that pitman arm, it's messing with the geometry. I have a Chassis Engineering book here in Spanish Fork if you want to barrow it.
Great content again! Did you use lift springs or are they stock GM? Is the axle moved forward at all? I need springs that are flat with weight of truck on them, not frowning like my sagged out stockers. Not wanting lift with a cabover camper on the truck. Can't wait for what you come up with to install a sway bar. Is there a trac bar coming soon?
These spring are from archive garage. They add about 3 inches of lift
Great video, but the drag link is a little sketchy. It's likely to start cracking around the pie-cut welds. You should consider bending or buying a bent drag-link. I've used Off-road Design on both of mine and they are phenomenal.
Yep, I'll be making revisions to the drag link next video 👍
Hey Tim could you tell me what shock setup you are running on your truck? I’ve done Bikstein 7100 on my last W250 but I might try something different on the one I’m currently building.
Is the sway bar set up OEM or is that aftermarket on those front U bolt brackets?
That's a factory option sway bar 👍
Great video! Would you consider having used a 2” drop pitman arm and keeping the drag link relatively straight? I know it accomplishes the same thing but maybe there are benefits to each. IMO welded DOM tubing is rock solid, I wouldn’t worry too much about that….
Yeah I may end up sources a 2" drop arm and going back to a straight drag link.
That’s what I did I put the archive stuff on and had a drop pitman on and from the looks of it I think it’s safe with no bend. Haven’t tested it like you tho because the chassis is for a sweptline I’m building
@@peterbotz266which drop pitman arm did you use?
Tbh I had it lying around from a previous truck. I uploaded a short on my profile which has the archive stuff and a view of the dragline going through the crossmember. I can measure length and drop if you need some dimensions
Have you ever tried to remove the amber lenses from the headlight bezels on an 81-85 year grill? I have new aftermarket parking light amber lenses but not really sure how to go about removing the old ones without damaging the housing.
I have never tried to remove them as all of mine have the 92-93 grill.
I just throw the socket on the ground, and it comes out every time 😂
What’s the issue with the wheel play? Got the same issue on mine and it’s be nice to fix it as soon as I get my hands on it
I finally got it figured out. Video should be out this week sometime.
That cross over steering kit needs too much shade tree engineering to work. Especially for what it all costs . Not the first time I seen this set up needing heating, cutting & bending for it to work. This isn’t safe to do, isn’t there a better engineered kit available?
It really comes down to budget. If you have welding and fabrication skills the ruff stuff kit is perfect. If that's not your thing then check out off-road design or northwest fab 👍
Edit: I'll actually be addressing the pitman arm and drag link in the next video.
Hola amigo cómo estás saludos acá de Austin Texas Freddy nice video saludos y bendiciones see you next video
I didn't see you use any here, but what kind of rust converter do you recommend, something that I can get at the local auto parts store, please (Auto Zone, Advance, O'Reilly's, etc.). Thanks for your feedback.
I've got a few videos on some options. I like chassis saver a lot. I also like corroseal to convert the rust and then top coat with rustoleum enamel.
@@decentgarage Thanks man, I have to touch up some surface rust on parts of my Jeep's frame. I'll try to cover as much as I can without dismantling too much; just moving stuff around and make a quick project out of it.
@@abnpthfdr2934 go watch my jeep restoration series. Kind of a restoration on a budget and it turned out great
@@decentgarage All over it, Brother. I had to go back several videos to watch it from the start, but once I got caught up, I watched the last few as you posted them. Awesome series!!!🤙
Didn’t hear you mention anything about a steering brace when installing the steering gear from 4WD to the 2WD bolts. The frame flex that the steering box gives when turning will crack and break your frame in that spot. The late 80’s 2WD ramchargers had factory ones put in because of the earlier ones having that issue. The plate they put in place for the 4x4 that you took off, I’ve had mine break twice already from the flexing of the steering gear. Like I said, don’t know if you put one in but I don’t remember seeing it in the video or being mentioned.
Bingo! Stay tuned for part two 😉
Thanks for everything Tim! By the way after cross over steering I tried using the dodge connection brace that connects to the radiator cross member but I still got a crack behind the steering box. I welded the crack and used jungle Jim’s boxing kit and then used a dodge 2nd gen steering brace cross member to add another cross member at the steering gear box. The frame on 2nd gens is slightly wider but it worked perfect for the bolts on the brace to be in between the jungle Jim plate and the frame. And for your steering play at the end maybe the power steering hydraulics need to be bled more? Thanks again for the vids yeeew!!
My plan is to use the dodge connect box but fabricate a brace that uses the sway bar mounts and connect it to the dodge connection brace.
@@decentgarage I boxed the frame for my first crossover conversion and I believe it's the best solution. I used the Dodge Connection 2wd brace on my second conversion. Both trucks had virtually no play in the steering.
Great Video Tim, you should have gone with a Kelderman Air Suspension, then you would have really done something Tim.
To be honest, all the reviews I've seen of the kelderman setups are fairly average. I would put money on this setup riding better. I actually have a kelderman rear single bag setup in the garage that I keep not putting in because I don't think it's worth it.
@@decentgarage You should have done the install as a review and then you would have been able given your opinion.
@@franklogan494 I'll use it on something in the future. But Ive heard of too many people install them and be pretty underwhelmed with the results.
@@decentgarage Sounds good Tim, keep making the great video's, you have come a long way and you should be very proud of yourself, you have great content and you are very honest.
Thanks Frank. That means a lot!
Nuts stuck in a socket can be frustrating, laying the socket on a hard surface and hitting the sides of the socket will jolt the nut out lots of the time
How far is it from the hole for the stock spring to the hole for the 52" spring on the hanger?
I'd have to look but it might be slightly over and inch but less than two inches.
I did the 52" springs infront and chevy 63" springs from archive my truck rides like a Cadillac but on 37" tires love the vids truck is bad a#&
63 inch rears with Fox shocks is next. I can't wait.
if you tap the side of the socket with a hammer it will fall out.
I'll give this a try! 👍
What wheels are you running? I’m looking for something similar
They are pro comps 16x10 -25 offset
@@decentgarage Thanks
I don't know about your kits. There was a lot of things not mentioned in the instructions. You should not have to put that bend in your drag link to fit your truck. When you tested the front end on that bump, your drag link hit your cross member. I would not install those items on my truck. Sorry!
It all depends on what pitman arm you run. If you have a drop arm you will not have to put the bend in it. But with this 2wd pitman arm is absolutely needs the bend and I can confirm that it does not hit the crossmember.
Yeah that bend you fabbed scares me. I think shocks and springs would give the same result
@@johnflood6656 just curious what scares you about it? It's 1/4" DOM tubing. If you look at far from stock or northwest fab kits they also have a bend.
@@decentgarage I think my concern is the depth of the weld. For strength I think it may be safer to heat and bend to insure overall integrity. There is so much potential force on drag links and fat tires if that cut weld fails you're dead
@@decentgarage Go back and watch your "Test speed Bump" you can see it hit the cross member. You need a drop pitman arm bad, you'll need to get a new drag links well.
Badass 🐏🐏🐏
👍🏻
❤️🔥🇺🇸
Hi Tim!!!!!!!! If the steering was fine before the changes, then most likely the steering gear box shaft is not centered. A change in length or adjustment of the drag link would then be necessary to eliminate the unwanted movement.
I run Sky's offroad cross over steering on my truck, they are local to me and ive ran their kits on many of my trucks. I have almost no play in my steering but I also have a new bluetop box as well.
Did you add a steering box brace?
@@decentgarage Yeah, I used farfromstock's cross over steering brace. I know some have their opinions with farfromstock but their brace actually bolted up really nice and was good quality.
you need a gas axe