I find it better to add a gain plugin on the first insert and turn that down rather than the fader, that way the signal going into any plugins after that is lower
Lol, recently at a live festi, I was clipping the channels on a X32 compact. Long ways off from clipping the amps, but damn, driving it harder was a pleasure. 3piece stoner grunge band. Full scale 🤟
Sarah Carters gain staging video was pretty good. calibrate a vu meter to -14db in the. master, mix drums to-7db add bass so you reach-5db, then add the other elements
This a good trick for mixer who still ride a bike training wheels. Learning to gain stage is probably better. Start with a good balance of your mix using clipgain. Don’t worry if something is not hitting -18dbfs or 0 on your vu. If you make your loudest elements(voice,snare,bass and kick) together just a bit louder than 0 vu, you will never be in trouble.
@@superrrnova1986That’s just what happens when people try to sound smarter than they are by finding the most complicated way they can to say something simple. Literally everything he said just translates to: Gainstage -> make sure your loudest tracks aren’t clipping. I bet bro went to some expensive music school and now he needs to make sure everybody knows.
@@nuh-uhbro765 Yes, just use jargon language, and tell yourself that you're smart. Who cares if the audience knows what you're talking about. If you've impressed them, then it's mission accomplished.
@@Mi-Go Good to know! I try to do that but for some reason it's really hard for me not to hit that red :D So then I just end up throwing a limiter on everything anyway because I'm not bothered to manually continue levelling it out. And then also ear fatigue is a thing :/
Uh, this was an old hack that someone else posted here on TH-cam about 6 years ago and got a lot of slack because it causes latency, changes the tone of the mix, and necessitates rebalancing the mix when you take it off. The correct solution was to insert clip gain plugins on all the tracks and depending on the plugin, you can use one knob to lower them all simultaneously. I can't believe this guy's tips sometimes. I honestly have nothing against him but some of the videos he uploads are either missing information, or just made up stuff from older videos produced years ago and revived by him.
@@PumpkinSeed17 Clip gain on every plugin are linear functions. Essentially ZERO latency. You can add 1000 of them and there is no perceptual CPU load. This is already such old news. I hope everyone understands this. The limiter is a non linear function...well, a good one at least. They react differently to difference signal inputs. What most people styding this should do is take a class on actual audio engineering and quit listening to shorts on how to become one. I learned a lot studying all this formally. I suggest everyone do it too.
@@matrixate Cool man, thanks for the insightful reply! I actually did some formal recording engineering training in 2004, but this wasn't covered. I wish I had the time to do more formal training, but I'll keep learning every chance I get. Cheers!
@@jessejukuri5202Most DAWs have clip gain on the master bus already. Just know, if you do adjust clip gain on the MB, the limiter will react differently if you use clip gain to lower ALL the tracks as opposed to just lowering the gain on INDIVIDUAL tracks. There's also another technical reason why to avoid that but that is a topic in signal processing which I'm not about to give a lesson on. So, the answer is yes and no...but mostly, "it depends." Look, I'm just following the recipes from master chefs and the recipes work. From there, you can make your own recipes. In this this industry, if it sounds good...then whatever you did worked. Just consider all the tips and remember the basics you've learned along the way. I do encourage everyone to actually study some audio engineering basics from a real textbook.
I like to use a gain utility at the front of each track to bring the volume of everything down at a fixed amount. So instead of working louder and getting quieter, I like to just start by working quieter. It’s served me very well!
@@milomaurermusic I utilize my utility for gain automation as well. I also sometimes use izotope visual mixer, so if I’m using that I relay on each channel. So I’ll use it as my utility.
For me yes and it’s also because there’s a lot of things in logic you can pull up on an empty channel strip that are gain staged completely different from say, the loop library. Some stuff in the legacy section of logic I’ve grabbed would have a synth that’s running with 5dB gain reduction into a limiter, having the sound basically already far more intense than the rest of the song in the session might be! Definitely better to tackle these issues with gain rather than pulling a fader right away
@taitimoproductions4801 you can use the the volume meter on your strip to adjust level. After recording between plugins make sure you have consistent level with the -18 to -12 range and then adjust your faders.
One man said that the perfect level for your kick is - 8dB. Thus, when you set the volume to this level and continue mixing, you Will get at least 4dB headroom for further mastering (or even more). And this trick really works. Also, recently saw video where mentioned another mixing secret: 1) you set volume for Kick, for example at 0db, then you add Bass, and the total amount of such mix must give you +3dB on VU. Then you'll get perfect volume balance and will also have enough headroom for you mix. Also, mixing (in mono!) with Pink Noise on a background is also a great way to get well balanced mix
You watching too many Tutorials 😂 we're all been there. In Music there is only 1 Rule: If it sounds good, it is good. Or in dance music: if you feel the need to dance to it, it is good
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you can just put a -6dB gain plugin first on the master buss. Modern DAWs won't clip.
That’s really not true. You can get away with that in a modern DAW however it’s not ideal at all as everything is still hitting the master hot.
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@@dannykirsch What do you mean by saying that? Can get away with it, but still would hit the master hot? The master is virtual - there is nothing 'to hit' per se. Plugins on the master - sure, that's why I said gain it down before any plugins. I do somewhat agree on it not being ideal (but not because of sound quality or clipping) - I do prefer having proper levels without the need of gaining everything down at the master bus. Also, chances are, individual tracks are feeding plugins too hot, which is a completely different topic.
I’m prepared to concede that you might be right and I might be wrong. I’ll have to experiment. In my mind if you’re hitting the master bus above zero db then it means you haven’t gain staged your mix properly. If I go into any plug-in I always use auto gain or else I gain stage the output manually so that the eq, compressor etc etc isn’t making the volume louder. I assume you do that? Also on every channel in logic before I go into any plug-in I ensure I’m hitting around -12db (everyone says -18db is ideal but I find that too low). I do this by turning down the gain in any audio tracks and if it’s a virtual instrument I turn down the volume output. Do you do this too? If after doing all this I’m going into the master bus hot then I might for example put a -6db gain at the end of every channel or at the end of every bus but if you’re saying that putting a -6 gain reduction on the master itself (before any master plugins) then that would be far less hassle but are you sure that the sound quality would be identical and not compromised at all?
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@@dannykirsch Yes. I do not remember who did a more elaborate explanation of that on TH-cam, but here's Dan Worrall mentioning that at around 2 minutes: th-cam.com/video/V76L4PRSPFE/w-d-xo.html And, well, from my own experience, yeah, feeding tons of level from individual tracks and compensating at the master bus is the same as turning down all tracks individually. Although I definitely prefer avoiding it, just because it looks nicer and looks more intuitive (how the tracks levels sum). And as Dan said, makes you look more pro haha. Cheers Danny, hope your day's great.
Wow interesting stuff having just watched Dan’s video. Thanks for sending. I work in 24 bit/48 hz and don’t bother dithering so I guess I too could simply reduce the master fader with a gain plug-in at the very top if required. Thank you for enlightening me. You’re going to save me a lot of time to be honest and also Dan’s right that bringing down all the channels uniformly can affect the mix somewhat. Have a great day too 🙌
Yeah, tips like this are a godsend. Always want room for dynamics in the master, but when I'm mixing I always want a feel for how it'll sound when it's ~loud~.
Right, or even better, just start with lower mixers. If you keep overloading channels, you just keep starting way too loud. Learn to mix, instead of applying questionable "tricks".
Just mix without insert on master. If RMS is averaging slightly over in red bring fader down and bounce. If there are random peaks deal with then at tracks level. That's the way I work since floating point.
Here's a trick if this happens. Choose all your tracks in the mixer (omit the master bus). Right click on any channel name at the bottom and choose 'Create New VCA'. This assigns a VCA fader to all the selected tracks. You'll find it (VCA 1) at the far right in the mixer. Pull it down till you're not clipping. Similar idea to large format console VCA groups. Useful for grouping instruments in mixing too. You can right click the VCA name in the mixer and choose 'Create Track' to put it in the Arrange page and automate it as well. Obviously proper gain staging from the start is the best option. :)
Even transparent limiters introduce color/saturation. You'll have headroom after you take it off but it's not gonna sound right, even if you raise your monitor levels. It's best to reference an unmixed track with -6db of headroom, raise your monitors so you can hear everything and just go from there and just keep an eye out on the fader once in a while. Like our forefathers did. lol...
I just turn the volume way way up on my monitors before I start mixing, and then mix as normal. When the mixing is done I turn the volume on the monitors to where they would be normally, and boom, a mixed track with a whole bunch of headroom 🤷
What you are saying makes a whole lot more sense than mixing through a limiter and then taking it off to send to mastering. This short makes no sense to me. Why would you mix through a limiter, unless you are going for that limited sound and then if you are you probably won’t want to take that off of the master because that’s the sound you wanted on your mix… 😅
Is it that hard to fix the gain on the tracks? This is like setting your clock ahead 15 mins so you’re not late but in your mind, you know the clock is 15 mins ahead. 😂
When i first started making music, i used to slap a basic Ozone mastering preset on. It was definitely not right, but it definitely stopped me pushing it too hard. I didn't realise that until now -i think this might be a good tip cheers
I use normalize region gain. -18 for everything but drums and vocals. -12 for drums and vocals. Not only does it usually give me a good amount of headroom, but it honestly sets up the mix nicely to not have to move faders TOOOO much. But that's just from the way I produce/record. Idk if that'll work for everyone
At the start of every mix I group all the tracks and drop them 9db in level and clip gain down the really hot tracks. Never had a clipping issue since I started doing this, and the gain is easy to get back in the master stage
Whoa my brother!!! I do the same exact thing...except instead of 9db off at the start, I go ahead and just do 10 haha. But same concept. And yup, I too have never had an issue once I started doing this (unless I'm just trying some stupid stuff for the sake of it possibly).
I work with limiter since day one (3years) bc I always heard mastering song my whole life like everybody. Don’t be afraid of limiter and clipper if u can hear it (with disto and clip) you can know if your too far/hard or not.
This is a great trick! I actually use a utility on the master to do the opposite. I do -6db and leave that on permanently. That way i have "extra" headroom.
I usually put a utility that has a default setting of -6 dB on each channel. This also gives me functionality over M/S processing and converting to mono if needed.
always thought this was common knowledge but the past few producers i’ve worked with have let multiple channels clip from simply not placing a limiter 😭 thanks for informing people!
Important trick if you want to pull down your whole mix without touching the master fader or pulling down all your faders at once, both options would destroy the volume relationship between your single channels in your mix: *JUST USE VCA FADERS/CHANNELS* Just route every new track you open while working to a VCA (each channel on a single VCA, not the whole mix to one!) and you're good to go, if this option is available in your DAW i'd recommend to use it anyways bc it works the exact way like analoge consoles are working 🤓
Wise words Mr Streaky! Really enjoy your videos. This is a little trick I’ve employed for decades… I noticed your dialogue sounds distorted / clipped on this video though, ironically!
I put a trimmer at -9db on the mix bus and everything that’s going through it is a lot more subtle and quiet. Then I crank up my interface a bit. That’s how I work on all my productions
Turn your tracks down -10 to -18 db from the start with a gain effect. Then use a soft clipper or limiter each auxiliary group and maybe even one of the final mix bus
Here's my tip: Don't try to make your recording the loudest. Go for quality (that means dynamics and enough headroom, AKA not going up to the yellow mark on every track), and on the master track output. In this regard, go for quality, not quantity (of volume.) and you won't have to worry about this problem of overdriving outputs. The volume wars exaserbates this problem.
i keep all volumes at 50% on my playback devices and use professional songs as a volume reference. i noticed a good mix/master can be turned all the way up with no distortion
[Mix at a low volume] [Take it to a Walmart/Or equivalent] [Try it on different stereos/speakers/little radio/boombox] [Grab some snacks] [Go home] [Fix the mix]
Just send your tracks to a submix bus before it hits your stereo out. You can not only back off the fader at the end, you can adjust how hard the mix is going to hit your 2BUS inserts.
Assuming you don’t use any compression on the master bus because if you do and you take it off the mix will collapse. Better to pull the master fader up 6 db ❤
This db trick works very well because you don’t push your monitor interface too much (less volume hiss)
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I’m a bit confused… is Cubase the only DAW that has a gain knob for every channel? If your mix is a little hot, just set the gain on the master channel at -6dB or -12dB or whatever. Actually even without a dedicated gain knob, you can use any plugin with a trim in it to do the trick. The internal resolution is 64bits. You could put a 60dB pad if you wanted, it wouldn’t do much harm :)
Can't the ME just pull down the gain by 6dB? So long as the file stays digital (no DA/AD clipping) and the DAW is using relatively modern FP maths there is masses of headroom above the red.
Yes, you're right: this is a complete myth, and I don't understand why someone with Streaky's level of experience is propagating it. There's some wisdom to the advice in terms of amateurs keeping things well under 0dB so that the professional will never receive a mix with messed up peaks, and there's some old processing equipment/software where the circuitry behaviour/rounding-error maths can get a bit dodgy close to 0dB, but it doesn't matter if it's peaking at -6dB or -0.0000000000001dB: the ME can simply turn the mix down to give them whatever amount of headroom they need.
@@joechapman8208 Hey Joe - I did an experiment with this a while back - may even have put up a video about it - so long as the DAW is using modern maths and the track is maintained as digital data, not converted to an analaogue signal then it really doesn't matter if it's + 100 dB - FP has massive range. Boost 30dB into the red, drop the fader 30dB and you get a bit perfect replica of the original. This vid is 10 - 20 years out of date - and a limiter is a lousy way to do it anyway because it's buggering the dynamics if the signal is hot - a simple trim would be a better option - if it was in any way needed. I hate to think how many folks have abandoned a perfectly good mix because they were told that they were too hot and didn't know that they couldn't just turn it down at the end. Heck, I've even had a mastering engineer (yeah, right) tell me that a mix was unmasterable because the peaks were too close to 0 and didn't leave enough room for him to work. What can you do?!? 🤷♂
@@AndiPickerthat mastering engineer probably just wanted to make your mix louder not better. You sending him a mix that’s already loud means that he can’t fool you into thinking he did something by turning your mix up. 😅
@@jimmyweaver5843 It's possible, I think the mythology of the ME that started back in the day when having Bob Ludwig on your sleeve notes was more important than who recorded and mixed it led to a lot of people looking at how much MEs got paid and fancying a slice of that - and for every Bob Katz there's a dozen someones with an Ultramaximiser and a Mix Master eq preset who doesn't have a clue about the bit of the job that qualifies for the "Engineer" title.
Man i didnt saw that but because I used to put a limiter in -1 , since I tried your trick its getting weird, I always try to be under -6 with my tracks and when I take your limiter with +6 it takes de master into -3 instead of 0. So the room its not about 6 it looks its 3.... why!? thanks
If everything is being pushed by the limiter you wont be able to understand what is going on behind it. When you take the limiter off the relationship between the sounds wont be as you intended them when the limiter was on. Use a pad or a simple gain plugin for a better result. Dont rush to hear a polished mix. Take your time to learn about gain reduction on an individual channel basis, whether it be compression, limiting, saturation or even some forms of distortion. If you can reduce the peaks of each signal as you progress through your production, you will get to the end and have something which is managable and has the intention you began with.
What's the truth about there being no such thing as clipping at 32bit Float, you can just bring the volume down at the and and it make no difference at all? But, gain staging is important because any analogue styled plugins take input volumr into account when emulating distotand saturation..
If you export at 32, anybody that opens the file on 32 is able to clip gain it down to wherever they want it be to even if it’s clipping. Hope that made sense.
@@MOSMASTERING if you say you can bring down the master fader: no, I tried it but worked very poorly. If you mean lowering the individual tracks: yeah you can do it, but to me it’s better to put a gain plugin on the master bus - and obviously pay more attention to the levels in the next mix!
@@alessandrosummer Yeah, I meant get it right at source. Lower ALL faders and mix it again with gain staging and keep your level peak at -6db ish. Then you control the peaks with a limiter, then clipping and finally limiting. You can also lower peaks with saturation too.. and a few other non-standard methods as well. Whatever works for you. But, I think its good practice to work right as you go. Using a limiter at the end to bring it all down to where it should have been is a band-aid fix. It's good practice because if you ever work in a real analogue or hybrid studio, it's GOT to be right or you'll get genuine distortion, artifacts and clipping
@@MOSMASTERING I'd never use a limiter on the mix bus, I much prefer clipping that is way more transparent with the drum transients. I'd rather yeah mix the individual tracks and busses lower to have enough headroom. I've always worked in the box btw
just mix on an analogue console and set your gains correctly. Mix with your hands and ears, not your eyes. Record your mixdown at the correct level using the master fader.
Do channels actually clip in most DAWs? In Reaper they don't, you can be at +5 dB and it won't matter for sound quality (since it uses FP64 internally). The master channel is an exception, of course. Still, I never go above 0 on individual channels; it feels wrong.
I record RnB, Neo Soul, when mixing.. loud isnt necessarily what im aiming for, so i turn my channel faders down ( Control C.. adjust all same time) .. As usual i will try this technique for shyts and giggles....PEACE PROFESSOR STREAKY
When I was in school back in 2012 I learned to mix so nothing goes past -6 db on the reading meter. The volume Knob stays at zero. Now I have 6db wiggle room in the mastering.
Sometimes this kind of clipping can make tracks and busses sound better, then you can just record separately and add to taste. If you always follow "rules" you could miss a lot of "happy accidents".
Or, as Streaky and countless others have explained elsewhere, you could learn to gain stage properly from the start. Then, as well as your LR coming in at a manageable level, all your effects will be singing in their sweet spot, and you won’t be fooling your ears with ‘louder is better.’
Alternative: Turn every channel down and turn your interface up, easy 10 DB headroom
I by default turn any new channel down 10dB
Agree with this, no need for using extra plugins.
I find it better to add a gain plugin on the first insert and turn that down rather than the fader, that way the signal going into any plugins after that is lower
Cranking up the interface mostly causes clipping issues and it won't be as easy to work with opposed to the removable limiter, I think
@@DanteRoseI second this
if you dont redline, you won’t headline
Haa
CRANK IT UP
If it ain't clippin, it ain't hittin!!!
Lol, recently at a live festi, I was clipping the channels on a X32 compact. Long ways off from clipping the amps, but damn, driving it harder was a pleasure. 3piece stoner grunge band. Full scale 🤟
lemme know where I can find your band my guy imma check yall out
The irony of recording a video on how to stop clipping, with a clipped narration.
Nice one Streaky
Lol
🤣
Sarah Carters gain staging video was pretty good. calibrate a vu meter to -14db in the. master, mix drums to-7db add bass so you reach-5db, then add the other elements
He is a nut job. Most of the time.
This a good trick for mixer who still ride a bike training wheels. Learning to gain stage is probably better. Start with a good balance of your mix using clipgain. Don’t worry if something is not hitting -18dbfs or 0 on your vu. If you make your loudest elements(voice,snare,bass and kick) together just a bit louder than 0 vu, you will never be in trouble.
I honestly have no idea what any of that means which is a little worrying. But I will definitely look into it, cheers for the tip!!
@@superrrnova1986That’s just what happens when people try to sound smarter than they are by finding the most complicated way they can to say something simple.
Literally everything he said just translates to:
Gainstage -> make sure your loudest tracks aren’t clipping. I bet bro went to some expensive music school and now he needs to make sure everybody knows.
@@nuh-uhbro765 Yes, just use jargon language, and tell yourself that you're smart. Who cares if the audience knows what you're talking about. If you've impressed them, then it's mission accomplished.
He gave you the proper terms to do your research. how's that snobby jargon?
how about simply mixing properly from the start?
it also means that any tracks that are really clipping, will actually clip when you take the limiter off
Would the ideal thing be that they don't clip with limiter off as well?
Not if you bring down the output level below 0
In a DAW no tracks are really clipping except the outputs.
@@orangeeeeeee yes, its better to leave enough headroom on your individual tracks, I recomended-12 db
@@Mi-Go Good to know! I try to do that but for some reason it's really hard for me not to hit that red :D
So then I just end up throwing a limiter on everything anyway because I'm not bothered to manually continue levelling it out. And then also ear fatigue is a thing :/
I make sure my kick peaks at -12db by the end of the mixdown session I'm usually peaking around -6db to -3db
Uh, this was an old hack that someone else posted here on TH-cam about 6 years ago and got a lot of slack because it causes latency, changes the tone of the mix, and necessitates rebalancing the mix when you take it off. The correct solution was to insert clip gain plugins on all the tracks and depending on the plugin, you can use one knob to lower them all simultaneously. I can't believe this guy's tips sometimes. I honestly have nothing against him but some of the videos he uploads are either missing information, or just made up stuff from older videos produced years ago and revived by him.
Interesting but wouldn't you get more latency from using many plugins instead of one limiter?
@@PumpkinSeed17 Clip gain on every plugin are linear functions. Essentially ZERO latency. You can add 1000 of them and there is no perceptual CPU load. This is already such old news. I hope everyone understands this. The limiter is a non linear function...well, a good one at least. They react differently to difference signal inputs. What most people styding this should do is take a class on actual audio engineering and quit listening to shorts on how to become one. I learned a lot studying all this formally. I suggest everyone do it too.
@@matrixate Cool man, thanks for the insightful reply! I actually did some formal recording engineering training in 2004, but this wasn't covered. I wish I had the time to do more formal training, but I'll keep learning every chance I get. Cheers!
Ok but can't you just put the clip gain in the master channel?
@@jessejukuri5202Most DAWs have clip gain on the master bus already. Just know, if you do adjust clip gain on the MB, the limiter will react differently if you use clip gain to lower ALL the tracks as opposed to just lowering the gain on INDIVIDUAL tracks. There's also another technical reason why to avoid that but that is a topic in signal processing which I'm not about to give a lesson on. So, the answer is yes and no...but mostly, "it depends." Look, I'm just following the recipes from master chefs and the recipes work. From there, you can make your own recipes. In this this industry, if it sounds good...then whatever you did worked. Just consider all the tips and remember the basics you've learned along the way. I do encourage everyone to actually study some audio engineering basics from a real textbook.
I like to use a gain utility at the front of each track to bring the volume of everything down at a fixed amount. So instead of working louder and getting quieter, I like to just start by working quieter. It’s served me very well!
Which gain utility do you use? :)
@@avationmusic I actually just use Abletons utility plugin on each channel and drop the gain by -12db. Sometimes I will use relay by izotope too!
Like Streaky, why not do this on the master and save the trouble?
@@milomaurermusic I utilize my utility for gain automation as well. I also sometimes use izotope visual mixer, so if I’m using that I relay on each channel. So I’ll use it as my utility.
For me yes and it’s also because there’s a lot of things in logic you can pull up on an empty channel strip that are gain staged completely different from say, the loop library. Some stuff in the legacy section of logic I’ve grabbed would have a synth that’s running with 5dB gain reduction into a limiter, having the sound basically already far more intense than the rest of the song in the session might be! Definitely better to tackle these issues with gain rather than pulling a fader right away
Turn your monitors up and mix every channel around -18 DBFS and you won't clip 👍
Wha plugin do you use to know you got -18DBFS?
@taitimoproductions4801 you can use the the volume meter on your strip to adjust level. After recording between plugins make sure you have consistent level with the -18 to -12 range and then adjust your faders.
@@the95s You forgot -- they first need to know what a mixer is and how it works. 😂
@@taitimoproductions4801 VU Meters Plugins..
That
Why not to start working quieter on -6db on master channel and -3db on other channels for example? 🤔
One man said that the perfect level for your kick is - 8dB. Thus, when you set the volume to this level and continue mixing, you Will get at least 4dB headroom for further mastering (or even more). And this trick really works.
Also, recently saw video where mentioned another mixing secret: 1) you set volume for Kick, for example at 0db, then you add Bass, and the total amount of such mix must give you +3dB on VU. Then you'll get perfect volume balance and will also have enough headroom for you mix.
Also, mixing (in mono!) with Pink Noise on a background is also a great way to get well balanced mix
You watching too many Tutorials 😂 we're all been there. In Music there is only 1 Rule: If it sounds good, it is good. Or in dance music: if you feel the need to dance to it, it is good
you can just put a -6dB gain plugin first on the master buss. Modern DAWs won't clip.
That’s really not true. You can get away with that in a modern DAW however it’s not ideal at all as everything is still hitting the master hot.
@@dannykirsch What do you mean by saying that? Can get away with it, but still would hit the master hot? The master is virtual - there is nothing 'to hit' per se. Plugins on the master - sure, that's why I said gain it down before any plugins.
I do somewhat agree on it not being ideal (but not because of sound quality or clipping) - I do prefer having proper levels without the need of gaining everything down at the master bus. Also, chances are, individual tracks are feeding plugins too hot, which is a completely different topic.
I’m prepared to concede that you might be right and I might be wrong. I’ll have to experiment. In my mind if you’re hitting the master bus above zero db then it means you haven’t gain staged your mix properly. If I go into any plug-in I always use auto gain or else I gain stage the output manually so that the eq, compressor etc etc isn’t making the volume louder. I assume you do that? Also on every channel in logic before I go into any plug-in I ensure I’m hitting around -12db (everyone says -18db is ideal but I find that too low). I do this by turning down the gain in any audio tracks and if it’s a virtual instrument I turn down the volume output. Do you do this too? If after doing all this I’m going into the master bus hot then I might for example put a -6db gain at the end of every channel or at the end of every bus but if you’re saying that putting a -6 gain reduction on the master itself (before any master plugins) then that would be far less hassle but are you sure that the sound quality would be identical and not compromised at all?
@@dannykirsch Yes. I do not remember who did a more elaborate explanation of that on TH-cam, but here's Dan Worrall mentioning that at around 2 minutes: th-cam.com/video/V76L4PRSPFE/w-d-xo.html
And, well, from my own experience, yeah, feeding tons of level from individual tracks and compensating at the master bus is the same as turning down all tracks individually. Although I definitely prefer avoiding it, just because it looks nicer and looks more intuitive (how the tracks levels sum). And as Dan said, makes you look more pro haha.
Cheers Danny, hope your day's great.
Wow interesting stuff having just watched Dan’s video. Thanks for sending. I work in 24 bit/48 hz and don’t bother dithering so I guess I too could simply reduce the master fader with a gain plug-in at the very top if required. Thank you for enlightening me. You’re going to save me a lot of time to be honest and also Dan’s right that bringing down all the channels uniformly can affect the mix somewhat. Have a great day too 🙌
I allways mix it right from the start, so no limiter is needed on the output when mixing. I call it the natural art of mixing a song.
Yeah, tips like this are a godsend. Always want room for dynamics in the master, but when I'm mixing I always want a feel for how it'll sound when it's ~loud~.
Why not using a gain plugin? It’ll do the same thing except it’ll not interfere with your drum transients
I was thinking the exact same thing
Right, or even better, just start with lower mixers. If you keep overloading channels, you just keep starting way too loud.
Learn to mix, instead of applying questionable "tricks".
@@Relaxicity absolutely! The mix should not be clipping at any time
Just mix without insert on master. If RMS is averaging slightly over in red bring fader down and bounce. If there are random peaks deal with then at tracks level. That's the way I work since floating point.
Here's a trick if this happens. Choose all your tracks in the mixer (omit the master bus). Right click on any channel name at the bottom and choose 'Create New VCA'. This assigns a VCA fader to all the selected tracks. You'll find it (VCA 1) at the far right in the mixer. Pull it down till you're not clipping. Similar idea to large format console VCA groups. Useful for grouping instruments in mixing too. You can right click the VCA name in the mixer and choose 'Create Track' to put it in the Arrange page and automate it as well. Obviously proper gain staging from the start is the best option. :)
Even transparent limiters introduce color/saturation. You'll have headroom after you take it off but it's not gonna sound right, even if you raise your monitor levels. It's best to reference an unmixed track with -6db of headroom, raise your monitors so you can hear everything and just go from there and just keep an eye out on the fader once in a while. Like our forefathers did. lol...
I just turn the volume way way up on my monitors before I start mixing, and then mix as normal. When the mixing is done I turn the volume on the monitors to where they would be normally, and boom, a mixed track with a whole bunch of headroom 🤷
@@squeemlives that has nothing to do with mixing. Your approach will change.
@@synthzizer3324 what about my approach doesn't make sense? I've been doing it for years and years at this point
@squeemlives nothing to do with what's going on in the box. That's monitoring not mixing
@@synthzizer3324 I don't think I've explained myself well then, it's okay!
What you are saying makes a whole lot more sense than mixing through a limiter and then taking it off to send to mastering. This short makes no sense to me. Why would you mix through a limiter, unless you are going for that limited sound and then if you are you probably won’t want to take that off of the master because that’s the sound you wanted on your mix… 😅
o onoare sa joc in capodopera asta🙏🔝
va pup❤
Is it that hard to fix the gain on the tracks? This is like setting your clock ahead 15 mins so you’re not late but in your mind, you know the clock is 15 mins ahead. 😂
When i first started making music, i used to slap a basic Ozone mastering preset on. It was definitely not right, but it definitely stopped me pushing it too hard. I didn't realise that until now -i think this might be a good tip cheers
I use normalize region gain. -18 for everything but drums and vocals. -12 for drums and vocals. Not only does it usually give me a good amount of headroom, but it honestly sets up the mix nicely to not have to move faders TOOOO much. But that's just from the way I produce/record. Idk if that'll work for everyone
At the start of every mix I group all the tracks and drop them 9db in level and clip gain down the really hot tracks. Never had a clipping issue since I started doing this, and the gain is easy to get back in the master stage
Whoa my brother!!! I do the same exact thing...except instead of 9db off at the start, I go ahead and just do 10 haha. But same concept. And yup, I too have never had an issue once I started doing this (unless I'm just trying some stupid stuff for the sake of it possibly).
Solid advice!! Going to do this on my next track that no one will ever hear!!! 😭
That is what you fix at the master out Chanel with a limiter!!! 😅
I never thought about doing that. Thanks for sharing man :D
you could just boost the master up instead, also I never want my instruments to pass over -3db save yourself the headpains
Damn this was a good idea. Save a lot of time in the long run turning tracks down individually later haha
I work with limiter since day one (3years) bc I always heard mastering song my whole life like everybody. Don’t be afraid of limiter and clipper if u can hear it (with disto and clip) you can know if your too far/hard or not.
This is a great trick! I actually use a utility on the master to do the opposite. I do -6db and leave that on permanently. That way i have "extra" headroom.
💯💯💯💯🔥
you mean you do -6dB on master bus and turn interface's volume up right?
@@supahotjelly -6db on the utility plug in
I usually put a utility that has a default setting of -6 dB on each channel. This also gives me functionality over M/S processing and converting to mono if needed.
always thought this was common knowledge but the past few producers i’ve worked with have let multiple channels clip from simply not placing a limiter 😭 thanks for informing people!
Could always just flatten the faders and start again
Important trick if you want to pull down your whole mix without touching the master fader or pulling down all your faders at once, both options would destroy the volume relationship between your single channels in your mix: *JUST USE VCA FADERS/CHANNELS*
Just route every new track you open while working to a VCA (each channel on a single VCA, not the whole mix to one!) and you're good to go, if this option is available in your DAW i'd recommend to use it anyways bc it works the exact way like analoge consoles are working 🤓
Latency to Instruments say Hi 😂😂😂
can i achieve the samething with fabfilter pro-2?
I've been doing it the other way round, putting the Loudmax limiter on the master bus with the threshold set at 0 and the output at -3.5!
Wise words Mr Streaky! Really enjoy your videos. This is a little trick I’ve employed for decades… I noticed your dialogue sounds distorted / clipped on this video though, ironically!
I put a trimmer at -9db on the mix bus and everything that’s going through it is a lot more subtle and quiet. Then I crank up my interface a bit. That’s how I work on all my productions
I came across a video featuring Dave Pensado where he mentioned that not leaving room for mastering is actually okay.
Yeah but Zimmer Mixes with -80db rms headroom in total lol
Or they could leave the headroom from the start and turn up their volume knob.
I always drop
Kick to -12 and work from there
Once track is finished - il push everything into the limiter
The head room will only be there if they are not smashing in to the limiter though?
Problem with this is that it introduces recording latency due to the look ahead feature of the limiter?
I do my mixdowns just not touching the reds, then i take it down -6 to -10db and do a final listen before it goes to mastering, is that ok?
What about gain staging? Can't you turn down the output of your vsti or use a gain/utility to lower the volume at the beginning?
I always put all my mixer channels on -6 before instart producing and just put my speakers a bit louder. Is that also okey?
Turn your tracks down -10 to -18 db from the start with a gain effect. Then use a soft clipper or limiter each auxiliary group and maybe even one of the final mix bus
I turn up the master while making beats then drop it back down for exporting stems to mix in a diff daw. I usually start with my tracks -10-12db
Awesome 🎛️
Ahh I wonder why The God Particle does this right off the bat and Jaycen recommends mixing through it? 🤔 love your tips Streaky🙌🏾
I don’t think I’ve ever hit 6DB. That’s insane. Turn all your faders down bruhhh
6db is OD . Life gets loud sometimes I hit 12db kicks and 808s slamming
@@TSnippo wow. what genre do you mainly work in?
@TSnippo except you'll limit those peaks before a mix down, so it's irrelevant how loud you're peaking before
Here's my tip: Don't try to make your recording the loudest. Go for quality (that means dynamics and enough headroom, AKA not going up to the yellow mark on every track), and on the master track output. In this regard, go for quality, not quantity (of volume.) and you won't have to worry about this problem of overdriving outputs. The volume wars exaserbates this problem.
i keep all volumes at 50% on my playback devices and use professional songs as a volume reference. i noticed a good mix/master can be turned all the way up with no distortion
[Mix at a low volume]
[Take it to a Walmart/Or equivalent]
[Try it on different stereos/speakers/little radio/boombox]
[Grab some snacks]
[Go home]
[Fix the mix]
Just send your tracks to a submix bus before it hits your stereo out. You can not only back off the fader at the end, you can adjust how hard the mix is going to hit your 2BUS inserts.
Niceness, thanks bro..... I like it, it surely is going to help me a lot...
Great timing and brilliant trick. Gonna use it now 🤟
Good idea
How about Gain staging?
maybe I do something wrong but I use the master VCA to plus the 6db and do not mix into a limiter
Isn't it better to use the master channel gain in cubase than use limiter?
Assuming you don’t use any compression on the master bus because if you do and you take it off the mix will collapse. Better to pull the master fader up 6 db ❤
And what happens if i work on low dbs 😅
Then you're setting your gain correctly
what kind of mouse is that red ball 😭
This db trick works very well because you don’t push your monitor interface too much (less volume hiss)
I’m a bit confused… is Cubase the only DAW that has a gain knob for every channel? If your mix is a little hot, just set the gain on the master channel at -6dB or -12dB or whatever. Actually even without a dedicated gain knob, you can use any plugin with a trim in it to do the trick. The internal resolution is 64bits. You could put a 60dB pad if you wanted, it wouldn’t do much harm :)
Brilliant!!!
🔥
Couldn't you just set the master fader to +6db? Wouldn't that be the same thing without the need to add the limiter?
Can't the ME just pull down the gain by 6dB? So long as the file stays digital (no DA/AD clipping) and the DAW is using relatively modern FP maths there is masses of headroom above the red.
Yes, you're right: this is a complete myth, and I don't understand why someone with Streaky's level of experience is propagating it. There's some wisdom to the advice in terms of amateurs keeping things well under 0dB so that the professional will never receive a mix with messed up peaks, and there's some old processing equipment/software where the circuitry behaviour/rounding-error maths can get a bit dodgy close to 0dB, but it doesn't matter if it's peaking at -6dB or -0.0000000000001dB: the ME can simply turn the mix down to give them whatever amount of headroom they need.
@@joechapman8208 Hey Joe - I did an experiment with this a while back - may even have put up a video about it - so long as the DAW is using modern maths and the track is maintained as digital data, not converted to an analaogue signal then it really doesn't matter if it's + 100 dB - FP has massive range. Boost 30dB into the red, drop the fader 30dB and you get a bit perfect replica of the original. This vid is 10 - 20 years out of date - and a limiter is a lousy way to do it anyway because it's buggering the dynamics if the signal is hot - a simple trim would be a better option - if it was in any way needed. I hate to think how many folks have abandoned a perfectly good mix because they were told that they were too hot and didn't know that they couldn't just turn it down at the end. Heck, I've even had a mastering engineer (yeah, right) tell me that a mix was unmasterable because the peaks were too close to 0 and didn't leave enough room for him to work. What can you do?!?
🤷♂
@@AndiPickerthat mastering engineer probably just wanted to make your mix louder not better. You sending him a mix that’s already loud means that he can’t fool you into thinking he did something by turning your mix up. 😅
@@jimmyweaver5843 It's possible, I think the mythology of the ME that started back in the day when having Bob Ludwig on your sleeve notes was more important than who recorded and mixed it led to a lot of people looking at how much MEs got paid and fancying a slice of that - and for every Bob Katz there's a dozen someones with an Ultramaximiser and a Mix Master eq preset who doesn't have a clue about the bit of the job that qualifies for the "Engineer" title.
Thank you . For 10 years I was clipping everytime ... We need more tips
I gain staged every tracks to -6 or -10 db then adjust the fader afterwards. Is it correct?
What does the limiter do again? Jk do you have lessons or anything, ive gotten good mixes but how is a total mystery
my teacher mentioned this, it is actually very important.
What confuses me is how do these top guys on Airbit and Beatstars have such loud tracks, redlining in that zone, but have no digital distortion?
I think if you utilize proper gain structure from the first second you touch your session, you should never run into this problem.
the only correct comment here omg
Very good advice
Man i didnt saw that but because I used to put a limiter in -1 , since I tried your trick its getting weird, I always try to be under -6 with my tracks and when I take your limiter with +6 it takes de master into -3 instead of 0. So the room its not about 6 it looks its 3.... why!? thanks
My hero❤
Our hero
If everything is being pushed by the limiter you wont be able to understand what is going on behind it. When you take the limiter off the relationship between the sounds wont be as you intended them when the limiter was on. Use a pad or a simple gain plugin for a better result.
Dont rush to hear a polished mix. Take your time to learn about gain reduction on an individual channel basis, whether it be compression, limiting, saturation or even some forms of distortion. If you can reduce the peaks of each signal as you progress through your production, you will get to the end and have something which is managable and has the intention you began with.
Simply genial 😅
Thanks for this great tip.
shouldnt it be on the input..?
Do you put the limiter on your master bus or on each channel.?
What's the truth about there being no such thing as clipping at 32bit Float, you can just bring the volume down at the and and it make no difference at all?
But, gain staging is important because any analogue styled plugins take input volumr into account when emulating distotand saturation..
If you export at 32, anybody that opens the file on 32 is able to clip gain it down to wherever they want it be to even if it’s clipping. Hope that made sense.
@@MOSMASTERING if you say you can bring down the master fader: no, I tried it but worked very poorly. If you mean lowering the individual tracks: yeah you can do it, but to me it’s better to put a gain plugin on the master bus - and obviously pay more attention to the levels in the next mix!
@@alessandrosummer Yeah, I meant get it right at source. Lower ALL faders and mix it again with gain staging and keep your level peak at -6db ish. Then you control the peaks with a limiter, then clipping and finally limiting. You can also lower peaks with saturation too.. and a few other non-standard methods as well. Whatever works for you.
But, I think its good practice to work right as you go. Using a limiter at the end to bring it all down to where it should have been is a band-aid fix.
It's good practice because if you ever work in a real analogue or hybrid studio, it's GOT to be right or you'll get genuine distortion, artifacts and clipping
@@MOSMASTERING I'd never use a limiter on the mix bus, I much prefer clipping that is way more transparent with the drum transients. I'd rather yeah mix the individual tracks and busses lower to have enough headroom. I've always worked in the box btw
Thank you!
I’m sorry, what?? So clip 6DB harder past redlining? How about select all and turn them all down 6DB??
just mix on an analogue console and set your gains correctly. Mix with your hands and ears, not your eyes. Record your mixdown at the correct level using the master fader.
Ha lol! I like it! Not hating! Good work around for the inexperienced for sure and even more !
Appreciate this advice ,💯💯💯💯
Do channels actually clip in most DAWs? In Reaper they don't, you can be at +5 dB and it won't matter for sound quality (since it uses FP64 internally). The master channel is an exception, of course.
Still, I never go above 0 on individual channels; it feels wrong.
Mighty important Headroom ❤
I record RnB, Neo Soul, when mixing.. loud isnt necessarily what im aiming for, so i turn my channel faders down ( Control C.. adjust all same time) .. As usual i will try this technique for shyts and giggles....PEACE PROFESSOR STREAKY
This is as easy as putting your master fader to the max from the beginning, effectively adding 12 dB without any plugin.
When I was in school back in 2012 I learned to mix so nothing goes past -6 db on the reading meter. The volume
Knob stays at zero.
Now I have 6db wiggle room in the mastering.
it really doesn't matter if the red goes through, The -6db trick has remained in the past or in music with a lot of non-commercial dynamics
Sometimes this kind of clipping can make tracks and busses sound better, then you can just record separately and add to taste. If you always follow "rules" you could miss a lot of "happy accidents".
Or, as Streaky and countless others have explained elsewhere, you could learn to gain stage properly from the start. Then, as well as your LR coming in at a manageable level, all your effects will be singing in their sweet spot, and you won’t be fooling your ears with ‘louder is better.’
in ableton we use utility tool for this with +6 db
Holy shit thank you!