"Tin worm is knocking on the door here" It looks more like it's let itself in, made a pot of tea, opened a big box of biscuits, and sat down to watch Hubnuts from episode one.
Fiat/Lancia in the 70s/80s .... Structural paint and undersealed with pasta! The windscreen aperture flange had invisibly rotted away on my 124 coupe, the rust obscured by w/s glue and a chrome trim. One day as I pulled up at traffic lights the car stopped and the w/s didn't. It slid along the bonnet and I ran over it!! What fun.
The rust issue killed a local Lancia/Rolls Royce dealership in the early 80s, a friend bought a ' T ' reg Beta in 1981and it came with a written warranty against rust perforation.Despite desperate attempts at plastering with Waxoyl everywhere, it dissolved before your eyes and by which time the dealer had gone bust.Another friend had a Fiat Mirafiori and liberal over use of the wiper wash, caused catastrophic corrosion to the wiper arm aperture surrounds and they fell backwards into the bulkhead area , the motor valiently trying to keep them moving as they terminally collided - I kid you not !.
@@glennpowell3444 we sued on the family cars through the80s to fairly good effect . It was disturbing that tales of companies that use to apply it......... would water it down with whites spirits (?) to lesson costs.. ouch.
All these ars you read about it in the motor magazines of the period. What they DIDNT say was that they dissolved in front of your eyes. I loved those lancia sport hatch things but I suppose they had the same fate.... I don't recall reading about the near impossibility of servicing or they likely hood of valves meeting pistons.
@@davidmg1925 Yes David, I too adored the Lancia 2000 HPE estate from around 1977 and secured a test drive with the above mentioned dealership, it was a beautiful looking car and went very well.I did nearly consider selling everything to buy one but thankfully with hindsight it was just too unachievable !.
I worked for an exhaust manufacturer around 1980 and the only thing keeping the engine upright on some models was the front down pipe of the exhaust, the subframe mountings having completely corroded away. I used to have customers getting angry with us and our “useless products” until I showed them the state of their engine bays.
@@boneshaker6819 Sorry, I read "some models" as meaning some models of Gamma as it came with a variety of engines and also the coupe body. I've had similar experiences with some Renaults and even fairly recent Mazdas.
A car that I could only dream about as a teenager; and given their rarity, similarly only dream about 40 years later. What a beautiful piece of retro automobile!
Lancia, for all their faults... and there were many... were VERY innovative, and looked amazing. Montecarlo’s look exquisite, Stratos are amazing, and the Delta (and 037) are rallying gods
What a great find! I had a Gamma Coupe which came from the Italian Embassy in London with an astonishing 19,000 miles on it. As a GT it never quite lived up to my Fulvia S3 so I sold it on.....big regret now when I see them reaching £30k but hey, if we all had a time machine we'd know better, eh?
They might be reaching £30k, but the owners will have spent far more than that on keeping them looking as though they are in reasonable condition. 'Money pit' is the phrase which comes to mind.
When these came out I thought the coupé was the best looking car I'd ever seen. Not so much the saloon but these two are certainly very interesting. All that effort that went into those strange little windows, and none into rustproofing...
More of this kind of stuff, Ian! This was really interesting. These cars are incredibly rare and we just don't get the opportunity to look around them very often at all.
I seem to remember this was the car that effectively finished Lancia in the U.K. The real issue with the corrosion as I remember was that because of the cheap recycled steel the engine mounts used to rot and come adrift without warning when driving. It was all over the national and motoring press at the time. So sad really because they were super comfortable to ride in and a good looking car, I remember failing one on its first MOT because it was rotten.
In the early '80s I lived opposite a 17 year old girl who not only learned to drive on a Gamma but used it as her daily transport (i think it was her parents car that was passed down) - she drove it for years but in our car-packed street (Central London) her "touch" parking method had us on the edge of our seats!
Always loved the look of these. As a school boy, I used to deliver papers to a house with one on the driveway. It was metallic gold with a dark brown interior and looked absolutely fabulous. I would often stop for a few moments just to look at it and dream of driving a Gamma one day. Sadly that's never happened, and I don't think I've even seen another one since, but the dream is still very much alive. Pitty they were water soluble, but I will find one. One day.
This is a marvellous video I genuinely learned something here , never knew they had a flat four engine, how marvellous it would be to see the white one running and a drive of it . Great stuff cheers
My next door neighbour back in the v-reg 80s had one as a daily, it was so cool, in the garage he kept his beloved Marcos Mantula. I was about 10yrs at the time. My direct opposite had an etype, the guy on the other side of us had an s3 xj6. From what I remember my dad's boring new Granada 2.3L was worth more at that time than all these older cars. Mental. I want to go back in a time machine. Bring my dad back to life and wake him up from what he missed. The most interesting car he bought was a Renault 30tx. Back in 82, it could shift and had leather and electric windows. I think he kept it for 6 months then...... another Granada.
I remember when i was abot 8 or 9 our local Fiat dealer suddenly had two of them in his used cars lot. One silver with blue interior and the other was painted in gold-metallic like the one in the video...i´ve had never seen a Gamma before and instantly loved it. Unfortunately i´ve never seen one in the flesh since, only the Internet provides me with informations about this gorgeous car.
The father of one of my friends had a Lancia Beta, and proudly showing it off around 1981, After only a few months, he lifted the boot lid - which fell off in a shower of rust. One of my uncles had an Alfa Sud in the mid 70s. He left it out one night in the rain and got up to see a pile of corrosion between the four tyres still standing upright. Italian cars at their best.
Last time I was involved in Lancia, Gavin was the big collector. Well done sir. I used to work on these, and problem mainly was the left cambelt that would jump off at speed, when turning left. There was a turbo version built by Bell Garage, that made for a very fast Coupe. They also cured the cambelt problem. We experimented with the timing on this engine. Ran it with much more advance. Went rather well!
The coupe is gorgeous but all the rivals had 6 cylinders. The standard of steel used in Italian cars in the 80s was criminal. I would have liked to hear that engine run, It's a sweet sounding motor: a neighbour has the coupe when I was a kid and always was impressed with it.
Hi mr. Hubnut, thank you for the review. My uncle has a 1981 Lancia Gamma Coupé mk2 (in way better conditions) with electronic injection, and he can confirm a lot of what you've said, expecially in terms of the experimental design: at some point, Fiat decided that investing in Lancia was way to expensive, so they came out with the worst possible solution, to make a car which wasn't completely approved, relating on the "opinions" of all the customers. Unsorprisingly, things never went that good, because this decision can sound like a sort of betrayal to all the enthusiasts. Luckily, the Thema has been way more appreciated, especially in Italy. Moving to the engine, I can tell you for sure that, due to the low number of cylinders, when it idles it shakes the car a little bit, especially because it's mounted longitudinally... But my uncle usually says that it has a lot of torque and you don't have to use the gear lever that much.
Boxer engine shouldn't shake like a vertical in line. They're usually very smooth. Rubber engine mountings would be dead by now if not replaced. That's what was wrong with an 81 Mercedes I had, the difference was amazing. It was a V8 so you really felt it rocking.
@@whackiey Yes, this is true... I was mainly referring to the fact that is not the smoothest engine at low revs... By the way my uncle was still restoring it back then, so probably the bushes were gone...
I drove a gamma berlina for 8 years and over 200.000km until it, too, succumbed to the tin worm. A most wonderful car to drive with great character. It had a tough life but really only left me stranded once, with a broken camshaft, but at the end of its life I had 14 headgaskets hanging from a nail in my garage. You get handy at exchanging those. Up to this day it was the car that I did the fastest long distance trip in, covering exactly 400km in 2 hours 5 minutes.
I would like to see what else is in this field (not the tent), as there looks like there's some interesting metal there (which may or may not be 'crusty')! Who else is with me?
I'm in my early 40s and I cannot recall ever seeing one of these on the road. The was a burgandy Beta berlina that lived around the corner from where I grew up but again very rare.
I was only reading about the Berlinas in a late-70s Motor magazine yesterday evening, never realised there was a Berlina version til then, and now your vid turns up, good stuff. Amazed any survive at all
I remember detailing cars and trying to clean a nine months old ´78 Beta. When a floor panel dropped to the ground I called it quits. Just imagine: bought brand new and rusted to bits in the same year! The mind still boggles after 42 years.
Hi Ian, the only Gamma I've driven was a Berlina. It drives like a much more modern, smaller car than it is and the engine note is amazing. You should go and see Andy Collins in Wiltshire. As well as being the King of the Beta Berlina, he has/had a Gamma Berlina that sat mothballed with 96 miles on it from new until he managed to recently buy it and put it back on the road. Amazing cars.
Superb Video On The Lancia Gamma Ian. I've Always Loved How Informative You Are With A Cars History. That's Worth Its Wait In Gold. I Remember Visiting A Lancia Showroom In Chester Circa 1983 - 84 And Seeing My Favourite Gamma Of All In The Showroom.! A Very Shiny Black Gamma Coupe. I Think A Series 2. What A Gorgeous Shape. Pinninfarina Created A Shapely Masterpiece.! And Beautifull Beige Leather.! What A Shame The Gamma Never Fulfilled Its Full Sales Potential.!
Great to see the Gamma Berlina in a video. My father had a Beta 2000 Berlina in 1978 and then bought a new Gamma Coupe in 1980....and yes the inevitable happened with the PAS/Timing belt so an Alfa GTV6 followed and no more Lancias. I know of an Alfa 6 that maybe available for a review...if interested in can ask the question
When two or more lancias are gathered together they shall perform synchronous corrosion! That is a very lovely and high spec model for the date. I imagine that the flat four configuration gives a very compact package with a lovely low centre of gravity and low front overhang. Nice handling too I imagine.
I recall a _Daily Express_ story in the 1970s ... a frustrated Lancia owner took one back to the dealer (who'd ignored rust and reliability complaints) and parked it outside. He left a big sign propped against the screen inside saying the car and dealer were both hopeless, locked the car and departed. Of course, most cars failed the MOT through rust long before the mechanicals wore out in those days. I had many UK and continental models that rotted. When anti-corrosion technology and warranties came along-oh, what a difference!
That was an absolutely superb video, and there wasn't even any driving, strangely! What a pair of great cars, it really is a waste to see such interesting vehicles rot into oblivion. The 1st gen interior is superb!
Just for a second I thought the first words were going to be," here's the latest addition to the HubNut fleet". At which point I would've been forced to go for a walk in the traffic.............
It is such an amazing car! At the time of its production Lancias were famous for its fantastic engineering and still quite impressive nowadays! I'd be so happy to own one of these wonderful pieces of automobile aristocracy!
Leaves Courtesy Light Of Termination running... Poor old battery! I did see a Gamma in the mid-1970's and it was already quite rusty, at less than 2 years old. Just like a Moskvitch of the same age. Thanks Ian.
My first car was a Fiat 127. I would love to know that the stories about cheap Russian steel really are true but I am pretty certain they are. Some of the body panels on the Fiat were as rust-free as the day it came out of the factory and others just crumbled to dust before your eyes. I think the materials, and particularly the shoddy Russian steel really were the problem, and not designed-in rust traps, as with so many British cars of the period. The drivers' door on my Fiat was as clean and rust-free as the day it left the factory but the passenger door was absolutely rotten and I replaced it with a better one from the scrapyard. The engine eventually died and I sold it for £10. A few months later I saw it back on the road. All the rust had been cut out and new metal welded in, it had new flared wheel arches and alloy wheels, and sat a bit lower to the ground. It was clearly still a work-in-progress as all the repaired metal was still in grey primer. I don't know what the new engine was, probably only a tuned 1300 as the engine bay is not that big. I would love to know if that car is still on the road thirty years later.
I had a Fiat Strada, which i had professionally undersealed when I bought it at 3 years old. Thankfully it had no significant corrosion in the time i owned it, beside a 'scab' on the tailgate. It did, however, suffer from front cross-member shearing. Fiat rebuilt the front end at no cost to me after their engineer had inspected it. The dealer said it would be down to poor quality Russian steel that Fiat had used, but "please don't tell anyone"!
I could. On my Lancia HPE, every time I went over a bump there was a noise like rain, as scales of rust fell off the roof onto the headlining. Every few weeks I'd have to pull down the headliner and hoover out the accumulated rust. Also, the TOPS of the doors went rusty too. How bad does a car have to be when things like the roof and the TOP of the doors go rusty?
Back in the eighties I used to get my van serviced by a garage that had a Beta as a courtesy car. It was only three years old and had terminal rust like that Gamma. Good fun to drive though.
That Russian steel was also used on the Alfa Sud, and was made from recycled Russian ships from the baltic and was contaminated with salt hence the savage rust. Someone told me that 30 years ago when I was a car mad teenager.
@@superseven220 The whole of the European car industry suffered from this Russian recycled high carbon steel problem. It nearly scuppered VW with the Golf having really bad rust between 1976 and 1978. As you saw with the Gamma the steel would rust in layers right through the metal and if you hit it with a hammer it would just collapse in flakes. I had a 1977 VW Sirocco and it rusted through everywhere just like the rusty Gamma. An add on to this, Russia also supplied huge reels of steel wire for the then new, wire braced radial tyres. The wire was transported on open backed trucks and much of it got a flash coat of rust. When it was used for the tyres it carried on rusting and then unbonded itself to the rubber internally. I had a set of Goodyear G800S on my Dolomite and when I asked my tyre guy why the side walls were all cracking he told me the story. Tyre companies were keeping quiet about it but he advised me to go to the official local Good year depot and make some noise but don't tell them I sent you. They took into account of the wear I'd had out of them and gave me 4 new ones with me paying for one. As they had sussed the problem by then my new ones stayed fine.
Adam Floyd Fun to have a go in though. I got mine at 9 years old when I was 22 and had it for four years. Went through both my brothers after that and after my youngest brother sold it it was last seen banger racing in Aberdeen.
Really enjoyed this video Ian. Your oz/nz stuff was all great but its lovely to have vids of your reviews back in the UK. The only thing that im missing now is a new collection caper.. Take care
The wiper button on the dash is to set the low/high speed. The blanking plugs in the doors are to fit the manual override handle in case the window motor failed.
I have referred to my copy of 'La Lancia' for a reminder of the Gamma origins.The Berlina's body shape was drawn along the lines of the BMC aerodynamic prototype from 1967. In the early 70's, Fiat was working closely with Citroen, pending a full takeover of the suffering French company. So initially, the Gamma was meant to be equipped with CX hydro-pneumatic rear suspension, as well as components of the CX floorpan. Prototypes had been built and tested with CX suspension, before de Gaulle intervened and the Fiat-Citroen deal fell through in 1972. I did recall a write-up of the Megagamma in Car magazine - a 1979 exercise by Giugiaro. I did sit in a Berlina, for sale in a used car dealers, back in the 80's. I was only curious, but remembered the dashboard layout. The Coupe was a lovely creature to look at, so I enquired after one in the early 90's - it was a long way away from me (Private seller), so I thought it prudent to get an AA inspection, to best advise if this was a good buy. I received the report in due course and absorbed the contents: lots of corrosion; engine issues (incl. possible head gasket failure); AA inspector did not consider it realistic to attempt a road test! Before I had a chance to contact the vendor, he contacted me, to chase me up, as his wife wanted the car off their drive. I had to tell him I wouldn't be pursuing further interest, but as a good will gesture, to help him to sell the car, sent him the AA report. Cars I have been attracted to are not always sensible, so test drove a NSU Ro-80 but didn't buy as engine was 'shot'; lost out on a Fiat 124 coupe (but reckon it was about to develop galloping tinworm); was put off a Lancia Fulvia coupe by garage that serviced it, because they warned of corrosion issues; did buy a Mazda RX-7 2nd gen and enjoyed driving it, but it was in poor condition so didn't last long. Had five Fiats in succession before my first Saab, with further 3 Saabs to date.
OMG! I thought my 1976 Alfetta 1.8 Sedan was bad (in Australia - no salt on the roads) - rust holes around the windscreen and the back window were the worst places. It was back in the days of the old saying - When you buy an Alfa, you pay for the motor, gearbox and suspension, the rest is chucked in for free. The carpet fit inside was dreadful and each door made a different sound when it was shut. But, I loved that car. It drove and handled beautifully, once the gearbox oil warmed up, which never happened in winter....
love the little details, like the way the boot opened, and servo assisted light adjustment. Lancia made fantastic looking cars, just such a shame about the tin worm.
Back in the summer of '78 I went down St Pancras by train, somewhere near Elstree we passed an airfield with hundreds of unregistered Lancia's parked up. The field was flooded with the cars standing sill deep in water, we wonder why the engines/floors fellout!
What a shame they made them out of old biscuit tins . I'm old enough to remember Lancias often popping up in the local paper "Cars £500 or Less" ... Me: "Wow , I want it !" Dad: "AVOID !!!" 😂👍
That is absolutely gorgeous. We never had those in Australia. Somewhat reminiscent of my much loved Renault 20 TS - one of the very last Aussie-made Renaults.
Papa had a 1981 HPE from new, as a company car(!) He nearly went for the Trevi, which had the most crazy dashboard or the Gamma Coupé. He should have gone for the Coupé especially as it reminded him of the Ferrari 400i which is what he really wanted. The HPE didn't rust in the 3 years he had it but it did break a lot.
INCREDIBLY INSIGHTFUL even for me as an Italian! Sadly these were a bit before my time and only knew about the Lancia Delta... Also well done to have found out about what "Quarzo" means... Many watches of the time that were sold in Italy had that written in...
The usual modification is to fit a pump at the front, driven off the main crank pulley. This was quite well documented by the late '80s. Alternatively, slacken off the PAS drive belts so that they slip and squeal rather than putting excess load on the cam belt.
I’d forgotten all about these, my friends mum had one in the 80’s didn’t have a clue what it was but it was a similar colour to the terminal version, I agree that interior was way ahead of other manufacturers of the time.
Something original, sleek and unique. Beautiful design work, inside and out, shame about the rust and reliability issues. Sounds like the renovation and preservation of these must be very challenging, but very worth the effort.
Those lancias are lovely even the rotten one could be saved if enough was spent . I allways think its not the quality of the steel to blame its the factory paint systems that fail these cars the quality of the anti corrosion and paint processes were not great to say the least . The quality and amount of the rust proofing and paint left a lot to be desired . All 70s cars rotted badly brttish were eaually bad and they didnt use russian steel . So i fear its mainly down to quality of prep and paint quality that failed these cars . And many others in the 70s . One thing i must say is rust seems to be a modern problem too as i see many 2000s cars with rot affecting them . Thanks to our salt spray and granular spreading in the winter . Owners sometimes never kept the cars cleaned this adds to the rot problem anything thats not looked after will rot . Quicker than other cherished vehichles . Anyway i hope u are well and ur new family too . Pls take care stay safe . Ian from ian .
Rust depends also on how you maintain the car and storage it. I own two sedan a 2 liter and a 2.5 liter with injection. The 2 liter looks exactly like the golden Gamma in this video. It was abounded and now of course it has a lot of rust...I am gonna use it as spare parts for the 2.5 liter.
Such a shame its being used for parts , my mk5 cortina had tin worm , every time i tried to get rid of the rust it came back!!! Great content. STAY SAFE.....☕☕☕☕☕☕☕☕🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧 keeping vactan ready for action!!!!!
My friend's mum had one of these in the early 80s. Dark green Berlina with a beige interior on a V reg. It was the first car I had been in that had electric windows and I was obsessed with them. I think the engine died catastrophically (probably the thing with the power steering pump at a guess). I really don't remember the styling being that odd and it being such a big car with that huge rear overhang.
I have owned both a coupe and a saloon. The saloon was black and immaculate. A lovely car which I enjoyed very much. No major problems. I sold it to another Lancia guy who still owns it and it appears at Lancia meetings. The coupe was gold and again was a good car. Rust did start to cause problems but nothing that couldn’t be dealt with. In many ways I wish I had held onto the saloon. I bought a beta too, right at the doomed end of the beta. That rusted everywhere and was a nightmare.
The early ones had problems keeping the cam belt on, which was somewhat disastrous. I believe a mod was worked out that made it more reliable but by then the damage was done. One of the more eccentric motoring journalists George Bishop bought one I think. He was a bit of a prototype hub nut in some ways. I'm not sure George's Gamma ever went, but he used to sit in it and enjoy it anyway.
I remember reading somewhere (possibly in the Lancia Motor Club magazine) that the Gamma was originally being designed in cooperation with Citroen and would have shared (at least) the suspension with the Cx. The all round strut suspesion came about as they had to develop a new suspension in a harry. I can't even begin to imagine the epic unreliability of a hydro-pneumatic Gamma, but I know I'd just have to have one as classical Lancia meets weird period Citroen is a sort of dream for me. And imagine a GS Pallas with a 1.6 Fulvia V4 fitted, instead of the misbegotten "Birotor"...
We had a Volvo 343 DL at a T reg, and it rusted like that, by the mid 80's the doors had a fist sized hole in it and bubbling everywhere, though the engine ran well...
Very nice. Thank you for this video. This interior looks amazing. Unfortunately it was not running. Ich would like to see a roadtest of it. A shame what has happened to Lancia actually.
I remember these when new. In 1983 or 1984 the Lancia dealer in Shrewsbury had several of the coupes for sale. They struggled to sell them even at nearly 50% discount brand new. Seem to remember they were asking around £5-6k. I was very tempted - but I'd just bought my first new car - a vw polo at £4500!
Read somewhere or other that the Pininfarina 'shape' of the Gamma Berlina was first worked out for a BMC 1800 show car - the 'Aerodynamica'. That would have been an interesting production model.
That Lancia is uncannily like a Citroen CX in so many ways, particularly the early series1’s predilection to rust. The shape is remarkably similar and I’d give anything to have that interior in my 1980 CX Athena, it’s in incredible condition and almost looks more French than the Citroen’s. Shame about the engine self destructing when going round corners, it could have been interesting trying to adapt that flat four into the CX’s engine bay. What’s even more interesting is the number plate, my CX is registered WMY 50Y, only 37 numbers after that series 2 you showed first. Yes I know that’s for 82/3 and I’ve already said mine is a 1980 model but there’s a reason for that. It was purchased from new in Germany by a member of the British civil service whilst working over there but was ordered in full UK spec. as he new he would be coming back home , which he duly did in 82. That is when the car received its “Y” reg. He owned it for the next 35 years before I became its second owner.
Carl Pickering I could be wrong but I believe that a flat 6 was originally intended to be fitted into the DS but, as you said, Citroen ran out of cash so had to make do with the pre-war 4 cylinder originally seen in the Traction Avant. The CX was originally intended to receive a 3 rotor Wankel engine which Citroen were jointly developing with NSU and which emerged in 2 rotor form in the Ro80. We all know what happened there, so yet again Citroen were completely cash strapped after the Wankel development costs and were forced into the arms of Peugeot whilst having to employ the later development of the DS engine. Bad decisions? Over reaching faith in their technical and engineering skills? Probably, but that was the Citroen which existed in the 50’s & 60’s and the automotive world will probably never again see a company so focused on seeking solutions to problems which other manufacturers didn’t even recognise as such. There are many other pieces of design on the CX which illustrate Citroens’ forward thinking but it’s all come to naught now. I really believe that the CX was the very zenith of Citroens’ achievements combining all the technology developed in the DS, GS and the magnificent SM but without the latter cars high cost. This soapbox seems to be getting higher by the minute so I’d better climb down before I need some oxygen.
@@malcolmherbert5127 maybe it was the DS? They certainly had form with air-cooled boxers after the 2cv. It would have suited either car. Can you imagine what a money pit a rotary CX would make? Terrifying to imagine...
Carl Pickering I think that was the problem Citroen perceived. They looked into that pit and couldn’t see the bottom. They did build 2 Wankel engined cars, 1 I think was based the Ami 6 but with a fastback roofline and the other was a GS called the birotor. They ended up having to buy back all but a few to avoid the inevitable un-ending warranty claims.
I just finished reading Matteo Licata's anthology on the entire gestation of the Gamma! Apparently the Berlina was meant to be a translation of the Pininfarina BMC 1800 Aerodynamica concept almost verbatim until Lancia management got involved and wanted a lower load-sill and more 'prominent' front. Still, it's remarkable what Lancia accomplished under such constrained circumstances and very unfortunate that the car never got more popular even after Series II solved most of the critical issues. The double rear window arrangement seems like a ridiculous compromise just to include a separate boot. Oh, the '70s stigma of the infamous hatchback!
"Tin worm is knocking on the door here" It looks more like it's let itself in, made a pot of tea, opened a big box of biscuits, and sat down to watch Hubnuts from episode one.
That comment just made my lunch break 😂👍
I was going to say, not so much knocked on the door than kicking it off its hinges!
One tin worm to the other = "You were only supposed to blow the bloody doors off!"
@@richardhemingway6084 Heh! :-)
ROFL :D Fantastic comment! Tin worm sure knows how to live the dream!
Fiat/Lancia in the 70s/80s .... Structural paint and undersealed with pasta! The windscreen aperture flange had invisibly rotted away on my 124 coupe, the rust obscured by w/s glue and a chrome trim. One day as I pulled up at traffic lights the car stopped and the w/s didn't. It slid along the bonnet and I ran over it!! What fun.
The rust issue killed a local Lancia/Rolls Royce dealership in the early 80s, a friend bought a ' T ' reg Beta in 1981and it came with a written warranty against rust perforation.Despite desperate attempts at plastering with Waxoyl everywhere, it dissolved before your eyes and by which time the dealer had gone bust.Another friend had a Fiat Mirafiori and liberal over use of the wiper wash, caused catastrophic corrosion to the wiper arm aperture surrounds and they fell backwards into the bulkhead area , the motor valiently trying to keep them moving as they terminally collided - I kid you not !.
@@glennpowell3444 we sued on the family cars through the80s to fairly good effect . It was disturbing that tales of companies that use to apply it......... would water it down with whites spirits (?) to lesson costs.. ouch.
All these ars you read about it in the motor magazines of the period.
What they DIDNT say was that they dissolved in front of your eyes.
I loved those lancia sport hatch things but I suppose they had the same fate....
I don't recall reading about the near impossibility of servicing or they likely hood of valves meeting pistons.
@@davidmg1925 Yes David, I too adored the Lancia 2000 HPE estate from around 1977 and secured a test drive with the above mentioned dealership, it was a beautiful looking car and went very well.I did nearly consider selling everything to buy one but thankfully with hindsight it was just too unachievable !.
@@davidmg1925 mixing with white spirits is fine in cooler weather. Especially when spraying into box sections. I think.
@@mikechurch1407 It even tells you to on the can!
I worked for an exhaust manufacturer around 1980 and the only thing keeping the engine upright on some models was the front down pipe of the exhaust, the subframe mountings having completely corroded away. I used to have customers getting angry with us and our “useless products” until I showed them the state of their engine bays.
The Gamma is a flat-four. It doesn't have a front down pipe.
Mike Peddie
That’s why I said some models.
@@boneshaker6819 Sorry, I read "some models" as meaning some models of Gamma as it came with a variety of engines and also the coupe body. I've had similar experiences with some Renaults and even fairly recent Mazdas.
A car that I could only dream about as a teenager; and given their rarity, similarly only dream about 40 years later. What a beautiful piece of retro automobile!
Never expected to see a video about actual surviving Gammas. Thanks young man. 👍
I've owned both a Gamma Coupe and a Berlina. Great cars to drive. Never had any problems with them, but they were not for everyone.
Lancia, for all their faults... and there were many... were VERY innovative, and looked amazing.
Montecarlo’s look exquisite, Stratos are amazing, and the Delta (and 037) are rallying gods
Zagato Beta, Touring GTL...
That blue interior...omg would want to have that car just for that color.
What a great find! I had a Gamma Coupe which came from the Italian Embassy in London with an astonishing 19,000 miles on it. As a GT it never quite lived up to my Fulvia S3 so I sold it on.....big regret now when I see them reaching £30k but hey, if we all had a time machine we'd know better, eh?
They might be reaching £30k, but the owners will have spent far more than that on keeping them looking as though they are in reasonable condition. 'Money pit' is the phrase which comes to mind.
When these came out I thought the coupé was the best looking car I'd ever seen. Not so much the saloon but these two are certainly very interesting. All that effort that went into those strange little windows, and none into rustproofing...
I see the Triumph Herald is holding up the struggle on behalf of UK rust.
Allthough it had a separate chassis.
Didnt they sag ?!
@@MrAvant123 maybee. I do have a herald chassis on my kit car, which was built in 82. I think the chassis is 72 and is surprisingly solid.
@@mikechurch1407 the chassis is capable of rusting too. .
@@Locost59 indeed it is. But that wasn't my point.
At around 13 mins onward the view through the second lower rear window over Ian’s shoulder is excellent. What a fab idea!
More of this kind of stuff, Ian! This was really interesting. These cars are incredibly rare and we just don't get the opportunity to look around them very often at all.
I seem to remember this was the car that effectively finished Lancia in the U.K. The real issue with the corrosion as I remember was that because of the cheap recycled steel the engine mounts used to rot and come adrift without warning when driving. It was all over the national and motoring press at the time. So sad really because they were super comfortable to ride in and a good looking car, I remember failing one on its first MOT because it was rotten.
I thought it was the Beta that killed Lancia in the UK. Not enough Gammas were sold to matter, the Beta was popular and had the same rust problems.
In the early '80s I lived opposite a 17 year old girl who not only learned to drive on a Gamma but used it as her daily transport (i think it was her parents car that was passed down) - she drove it for years but in our car-packed street (Central London) her "touch" parking method had us on the edge of our seats!
Always loved the look of these. As a school boy, I used to deliver papers to a house with one on the driveway. It was metallic gold with a dark brown interior and looked absolutely fabulous. I would often stop for a few moments just to look at it and dream of driving a Gamma one day. Sadly that's never happened, and I don't think I've even seen another one since, but the dream is still very much alive. Pitty they were water soluble, but I will find one. One day.
This is a marvellous video I genuinely learned something here , never knew they had a flat four engine, how marvellous it would be to see the white one running and a drive of it . Great stuff cheers
I love Lancia as a brand so much character and stlye I would love a Zagato Beta but finding one is the fun part.
My next door neighbour back in the v-reg 80s had one as a daily, it was so cool, in the garage he kept his beloved Marcos Mantula. I was about 10yrs at the time. My direct opposite had an etype, the guy on the other side of us had an s3 xj6. From what I remember my dad's boring new Granada 2.3L was worth more at that time than all these older cars. Mental. I want to go back in a time machine. Bring my dad back to life and wake him up from what he missed. The most interesting car he bought was a Renault 30tx. Back in 82, it could shift and had leather and electric windows. I think he kept it for 6 months then...... another Granada.
I think with absolute style in many things, clothes, cars etc, you cannot beat the Italians.
That gear shift is a thing of beauty!
I remember when i was abot 8 or 9 our local Fiat dealer suddenly had two of them in his used cars lot. One silver with blue interior and the other was painted in gold-metallic like the one in the video...i´ve had never seen a Gamma before and instantly loved it. Unfortunately i´ve never seen one in the flesh since, only the Internet provides me with informations about this gorgeous car.
The father of one of my friends had a Lancia Beta, and proudly showing it off around 1981, After only a few months, he lifted the boot lid - which fell off in a shower of rust.
One of my uncles had an Alfa Sud in the mid 70s. He left it out one night in the rain and got up to see a pile of corrosion between the four tyres still standing upright.
Italian cars at their best.
Last time I was involved in Lancia, Gavin was the big collector. Well done sir.
I used to work on these, and problem mainly was the left cambelt that would jump off at speed, when turning left.
There was a turbo version built by Bell Garage, that made for a very fast Coupe. They also cured the cambelt problem.
We experimented with the timing on this engine. Ran it with much more advance. Went rather well!
The coupe is gorgeous but all the rivals had 6 cylinders. The standard of steel used in Italian cars in the 80s was criminal. I would have liked to hear that engine run, It's a sweet sounding motor: a neighbour has the coupe when I was a kid and always was impressed with it.
Hi mr. Hubnut, thank you for the review. My uncle has a 1981 Lancia Gamma Coupé mk2 (in way better conditions) with electronic injection, and he can confirm a lot of what you've said, expecially in terms of the experimental design: at some point, Fiat decided that investing in Lancia was way to expensive, so they came out with the worst possible solution, to make a car which wasn't completely approved, relating on the "opinions" of all the customers. Unsorprisingly, things never went that good, because this decision can sound like a sort of betrayal to all the enthusiasts. Luckily, the Thema has been way more appreciated, especially in Italy.
Moving to the engine, I can tell you for sure that, due to the low number of cylinders, when it idles it shakes the car a little bit, especially because it's mounted longitudinally... But my uncle usually says that it has a lot of torque and you don't have to use the gear lever that much.
Boxer engine shouldn't shake like a vertical in line. They're usually very smooth. Rubber engine mountings would be dead by now if not replaced. That's what was wrong with an 81 Mercedes I had, the difference was amazing. It was a V8 so you really felt it rocking.
@@whackiey Yes, this is true... I was mainly referring to the fact that is not the smoothest engine at low revs... By the way my uncle was still restoring it back then, so probably the bushes were gone...
I remember the little shake! That’s amazing!
I drove a gamma berlina for 8 years and over 200.000km until it, too, succumbed to the tin worm. A most wonderful car to drive with great character. It had a tough life but really only left me stranded once, with a broken camshaft, but at the end of its life I had 14 headgaskets hanging from a nail in my garage. You get handy at exchanging those.
Up to this day it was the car that I did the fastest long distance trip in, covering exactly 400km in 2 hours 5 minutes.
That first example could almost be described as "an aqueous solution of Lancia Gamma".
I had one of these back in the day...it literally rotted away in 2 years, even the ashtray went rusty !
Had the berlina in our family in 1980. Discovered it was cut'n'shut so it got returned but whilst we had it, wow what a car!
I would like to see what else is in this field (not the tent), as there looks like there's some interesting metal there (which may or may not be 'crusty')!
Who else is with me?
Not rust but Italian economy air conditioning 😁
Speed holes they make the car go faster LOL
I'm in my early 40s and I cannot recall ever seeing one of these on the road. The was a burgandy Beta berlina that lived around the corner from where I grew up but again very rare.
I was only reading about the Berlinas in a late-70s Motor magazine yesterday evening, never realised there was a Berlina version til then, and now your vid turns up, good stuff. Amazed any survive at all
I remember detailing cars and trying to clean a nine months old ´78 Beta. When a floor panel dropped to the ground I called it quits. Just imagine: bought brand new and rusted to bits in the same year! The mind still boggles after 42 years.
Gorgeous and extravagant styling, just so fantastic for the 1970's. Thanks for presenting that Italian marvel of engineering Ian!
Hi Ian, the only Gamma I've driven was a Berlina. It drives like a much more modern, smaller car than it is and the engine note is amazing. You should go and see Andy Collins in Wiltshire. As well as being the King of the Beta Berlina, he has/had a Gamma Berlina that sat mothballed with 96 miles on it from new until he managed to recently buy it and put it back on the road. Amazing cars.
Superb Video On The Lancia Gamma Ian. I've Always Loved How Informative You Are With A Cars History. That's Worth Its Wait In Gold. I Remember Visiting A Lancia Showroom In Chester Circa 1983 - 84 And Seeing My Favourite Gamma Of All In The Showroom.! A Very Shiny Black Gamma Coupe. I Think A Series 2. What A Gorgeous Shape. Pinninfarina Created A Shapely Masterpiece.! And Beautifull Beige Leather.! What A Shame The Gamma Never Fulfilled Its Full Sales Potential.!
What a great car with many secrets to discover. Indeed, with such cars, often the testing wasn’t enough. Cool car!
Very lovely interior of the white one. Those blue seats look exceptionally comfy. Those members of the consortium are all brave brave people!
Great to see the Gamma Berlina in a video. My father had a Beta 2000 Berlina in 1978 and then bought a new Gamma Coupe in 1980....and yes the inevitable happened with the PAS/Timing belt so an Alfa GTV6 followed and no more Lancias. I know of an Alfa 6 that maybe available for a review...if interested in can ask the question
When two or more lancias are gathered together they shall perform synchronous corrosion!
That is a very lovely and high spec model for the date. I imagine that the flat four configuration gives a very compact package with a lovely low centre of gravity and low front overhang. Nice handling too I imagine.
I recall a _Daily Express_ story in the 1970s ... a frustrated Lancia owner took one back to the dealer (who'd ignored rust and reliability complaints) and parked it outside. He left a big sign propped against the screen inside saying the car and dealer were both hopeless, locked the car and departed. Of course, most cars failed the MOT through rust long before the mechanicals wore out in those days. I had many UK and continental models that rotted. When anti-corrosion technology and warranties came along-oh, what a difference!
That was an absolutely superb video, and there wasn't even any driving, strangely! What a pair of great cars, it really is a waste to see such interesting vehicles rot into oblivion. The 1st gen interior is superb!
Looks like a surprisingly big car when parked next to that XF - they're huge!
Just for a second I thought the first words were going to be," here's the latest addition to the HubNut fleet". At which point I would've been forced to go for a walk in the traffic.............
I helped rescue that series one from its 22 year slumber in a nice dry garage, hopefully it won’t be sitting on that grass for long!
It had already moved by Sunday. Brakes getting freed off. It's hopefully on its way to a proper return to the road.
It is such an amazing car! At the time of its production Lancias were famous for its fantastic engineering and still quite impressive nowadays! I'd be so happy to own one of these wonderful pieces of automobile aristocracy!
Leaves Courtesy Light Of Termination running... Poor old battery!
I did see a Gamma in the mid-1970's and it was already quite rusty, at less than 2 years old. Just like a Moskvitch of the same age. Thanks Ian.
My first car was a Fiat 127. I would love to know that the stories about cheap Russian steel really are true but I am pretty certain they are. Some of the body panels on the Fiat were as rust-free as the day it came out of the factory and others just crumbled to dust before your eyes. I think the materials, and particularly the shoddy Russian steel really were the problem, and not designed-in rust traps, as with so many British cars of the period. The drivers' door on my Fiat was as clean and rust-free as the day it left the factory but the passenger door was absolutely rotten and I replaced it with a better one from the scrapyard.
The engine eventually died and I sold it for £10. A few months later I saw it back on the road. All the rust had been cut out and new metal welded in, it had new flared wheel arches and alloy wheels, and sat a bit lower to the ground. It was clearly still a work-in-progress as all the repaired metal was still in grey primer. I don't know what the new engine was, probably only a tuned 1300 as the engine bay is not that big. I would love to know if that car is still on the road thirty years later.
When you say "As rust free as it left the factory" I'm thinking less than rust free. :)
I had a Fiat Strada, which i had professionally undersealed when I bought it at 3 years old. Thankfully it had no significant corrosion in the time i owned it, beside a 'scab' on the tailgate. It did, however, suffer from front cross-member shearing. Fiat rebuilt the front end at no cost to me after their engineer had inspected it. The dealer said it would be down to poor quality Russian steel that Fiat had used, but "please don't tell anyone"!
@@glennpowell3444 Remember the Not The Nine O'Clock news version? th-cam.com/video/FU-tuY0Z7nQ/w-d-xo.html
@@Graham_Langley that was the first thing I thought of when he mentioned the "built by robots", built by Roberts.
To be honest, it's absolutely amazing that the rust is limited to that level.
Water soluble Lancia bodywork.
That first gen gearstick reminds me of the spaceball gearstick in the first gen Volvo S60
I had one of those (S60) and I loved the spaceball gear selector. It made a lot of people think it was an automatic
Yes, on the nose. I couldn't think where I had seen one. Didn't the Civic a few evolution back have one as well?
Some say that you can hear them rusting away.
I could.
On my Lancia HPE, every time I went over a bump there was a noise like rain, as scales of rust fell off the roof onto the headlining.
Every few weeks I'd have to pull down the headliner and hoover out the accumulated rust.
Also, the TOPS of the doors went rusty too.
How bad does a car have to be when things like the roof and the TOP of the doors go rusty?
Back in the eighties I used to get my van serviced by a garage that had a Beta as a courtesy car. It was only three years old and had terminal rust like that Gamma. Good fun to drive though.
That Russian steel was also used on the Alfa Sud, and was made from recycled Russian ships from the baltic and was contaminated with salt hence the savage rust. Someone told me that 30 years ago when I was a car mad teenager.
Seems like a good theory to me. Sodium steel....
Nothing to do with the steel being stored out in the open at the factory before manufacture?
This is disputed, but back in the 70s and 80s I worked for a firm with a sheet metal shop and they insisted on no Italian steel from their suppliers.
A similar thing was said about Fiats at the time as well. They were also horrendous for rust
@@superseven220 The whole of the European car industry suffered from this Russian recycled high carbon steel problem. It nearly scuppered VW with the Golf having really bad rust between 1976 and 1978. As you saw with the Gamma the steel would rust in layers right through the metal and if you hit it with a hammer it would just collapse in flakes. I had a 1977 VW Sirocco and it rusted through everywhere just like the rusty Gamma.
An add on to this, Russia also supplied huge reels of steel wire for the then new, wire braced radial tyres. The wire was transported on open backed trucks and much of it got a flash coat of rust. When it was used for the tyres it carried on rusting and then unbonded itself to the rubber internally. I had a set of Goodyear G800S on my Dolomite and when I asked my tyre guy why the side walls were all cracking he told me the story. Tyre companies were keeping quiet about it but he advised me to go to the official local Good year depot and make some noise but don't tell them I sent you. They took into account of the wear I'd had out of them and gave me 4 new ones with me paying for one. As they had sussed the problem by then my new ones stayed fine.
I got most excited by the glimpse of a Renault 11. My first much loved car.
That was me videobombing in the Renault 11. Sadly it's not my car.
Adam Floyd Fun to have a go in though. I got mine at 9 years old when I was 22 and had it for four years. Went through both my brothers after that and after my youngest brother sold it it was last seen banger racing in Aberdeen.
@@Kenny_P_abz Everybody fell in love with that one. It's an automatic, very smooth and wafty.
Really enjoyed this video Ian. Your oz/nz stuff was all great but its lovely to have vids of your reviews back in the UK. The only thing that im missing now is a new collection caper.. Take care
The wiper button on the dash is to set the low/high speed. The blanking plugs in the doors are to fit the manual override handle in case the window motor failed.
I have referred to my copy of 'La Lancia' for a reminder of the Gamma origins.The Berlina's body shape was drawn along the lines of the BMC aerodynamic prototype from 1967. In the early 70's, Fiat was working closely with Citroen, pending a full takeover of the suffering French company. So initially, the Gamma was meant to be equipped with CX hydro-pneumatic rear suspension, as well as components of the CX floorpan. Prototypes had been built and tested with CX suspension, before de Gaulle intervened and the Fiat-Citroen deal fell through in 1972. I did recall a write-up of the Megagamma in Car magazine - a 1979 exercise by Giugiaro.
I did sit in a Berlina, for sale in a used car dealers, back in the 80's. I was only curious, but remembered the dashboard layout. The Coupe was a lovely creature to look at, so I enquired after one in the early 90's - it was a long way away from me (Private seller), so I thought it prudent to get an AA inspection, to best advise if this was a good buy. I received the report in due course and absorbed the contents: lots of corrosion; engine issues (incl. possible head gasket failure); AA inspector did not consider it realistic to attempt a road test! Before I had a chance to contact the vendor, he contacted me, to chase me up, as his wife wanted the car off their drive. I had to tell him I wouldn't be pursuing further interest, but as a good will gesture, to help him to sell the car, sent him the AA report.
Cars I have been attracted to are not always sensible, so test drove a NSU Ro-80 but didn't buy as engine was 'shot'; lost out on a Fiat 124 coupe (but reckon it was about to develop galloping tinworm); was put off a Lancia Fulvia coupe by garage that serviced it, because they warned of corrosion issues; did buy a Mazda RX-7 2nd gen and enjoyed driving it, but it was in poor condition so didn't last long. Had five Fiats in succession before my first Saab, with further 3 Saabs to date.
OMG! I thought my 1976 Alfetta 1.8 Sedan was bad (in Australia - no salt on the roads) - rust holes around the windscreen and the back window were the worst places. It was back in the days of the old saying - When you buy an Alfa, you pay for the motor, gearbox and suspension, the rest is chucked in for free. The carpet fit inside was dreadful and each door made a different sound when it was shut. But, I loved that car. It drove and handled beautifully, once the gearbox oil warmed up, which never happened in winter....
love the little details, like the way the boot opened, and servo assisted light adjustment. Lancia made fantastic looking cars, just such a shame about the tin worm.
Back in the summer of '78 I went down St Pancras by train, somewhere near Elstree we passed an airfield with hundreds of unregistered Lancia's parked up. The field was flooded with the cars standing sill deep in water, we wonder why the engines/floors fellout!
What a shame they made them out of old biscuit tins . I'm old enough to remember Lancias often popping up in the local paper "Cars £500 or Less" ...
Me: "Wow , I want it !"
Dad: "AVOID !!!"
😂👍
Now that was,,,,,awesome!!! Havnt seen one of those in ages,cheers ian!
That is absolutely gorgeous. We never had those in Australia. Somewhat reminiscent of my much loved Renault 20 TS - one of the very last Aussie-made Renaults.
Papa had a 1981 HPE from new, as a company car(!) He nearly went for the Trevi, which had the most crazy dashboard or the Gamma Coupé. He should have gone for the Coupé especially as it reminded him of the Ferrari 400i which is what he really wanted. The HPE didn't rust in the 3 years he had it but it did break a lot.
INCREDIBLY INSIGHTFUL even for me as an Italian! Sadly these were a bit before my time and only knew about the Lancia Delta...
Also well done to have found out about what "Quarzo" means... Many watches of the time that were sold in Italy had that written in...
I saw the white one running about last year on FoTU weekend. Such a sight to see one on the road.
There’s ones of these just round the corner from me. In pristine condition, stunning car, there’s a hint of Citroen to it.
Imagine being surprised at how rusty a Lancia is.
I could eat one and still be hungry
I wonder is it possible to do some sort of electric power steering conversion on these? Seems like a very unfortunate design flaw
The usual modification is to fit a pump at the front, driven off the main crank pulley. This was quite well documented by the late '80s. Alternatively, slacken off the PAS drive belts so that they slip and squeal rather than putting excess load on the cam belt.
That series 1 car is in astonishing condition!
"Socially distanced weekend of fun". One day, we'll look back on those...
I’d forgotten all about these, my friends mum had one in the 80’s didn’t have a clue what it was but it was a similar colour to the terminal version, I agree that interior was way ahead of other manufacturers of the time.
Something original, sleek and unique. Beautiful design work, inside and out, shame about the rust and reliability issues. Sounds like the renovation and preservation of these must be very challenging, but very worth the effort.
Indeed yes! My school mate had a BETA and it just fell apart before your eyes - when it went, it was a fantastic drive
I will never forget my old mans Lancia Beta. My feet got wet every time it rained! 😂
A Lancia Gamma in white with steel blue interior and a Renault 11 driving around: you're living in paradise... ;-))
Also, if you want ultimate rarity, you need to find a roadworthy RHD Gamma that Martin Buckley of "Classic and Sports Car" hasn't owned at some point.
Those lancias are lovely even the rotten one could be saved if enough was spent . I allways think its not the quality of the steel to blame its the factory paint systems that fail these cars the quality of the anti corrosion and paint processes were not great to say the least . The quality and amount of the rust proofing and paint left a lot to be desired . All 70s cars rotted badly brttish were eaually bad and they didnt use russian steel . So i fear its mainly down to quality of prep and paint quality that failed these cars . And many others in the 70s . One thing i must say is rust seems to be a modern problem too as i see many 2000s cars with rot affecting them . Thanks to our salt spray and granular spreading in the winter . Owners sometimes never kept the cars cleaned this adds to the rot problem anything thats not looked after will rot . Quicker than other cherished vehichles . Anyway i hope u are well and ur new family too . Pls take care stay safe . Ian from ian .
most alfa's were stored outside with no paint nothing to do with steel.sud's were often left unpainted due to union
strikes nothing to do with steel
Rust depends also on how you maintain the car and storage it. I own two sedan a 2 liter and a 2.5 liter with injection. The 2 liter looks exactly like the golden Gamma in this video. It was abounded and now of course it has a lot of rust...I am gonna use it as spare parts for the 2.5 liter.
Such a shame its being used for parts , my mk5 cortina had tin worm , every time i tried to get rid of the rust it came back!!! Great content. STAY SAFE.....☕☕☕☕☕☕☕☕🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧 keeping vactan ready for action!!!!!
My friend's mum had one of these in the early 80s. Dark green Berlina with a beige interior on a V reg. It was the first car I had been in that had electric windows and I was obsessed with them. I think the engine died catastrophically (probably the thing with the power steering pump at a guess). I really don't remember the styling being that odd and it being such a big car with that huge rear overhang.
Wonderful cars, the money problems could not completely dull the engineering and design qualities of this legendary marque. Thanks, Ian 👌☺️
one of the best looking cars ever made i.m.o - could never figure out were stacked high at my local scrap yard - until I got close up to the rust
I have owned both a coupe and a saloon. The saloon was black and immaculate. A lovely car which I enjoyed very much. No major problems. I sold it to another Lancia guy who still owns it and it appears at Lancia meetings. The coupe was gold and again was a good car. Rust did start to cause problems but nothing that couldn’t be dealt with. In many ways I wish I had held onto the saloon. I bought a beta too, right at the doomed end of the beta. That rusted everywhere and was a nightmare.
The early ones had problems keeping the cam belt on, which was somewhat disastrous. I believe a mod was worked out that made it more reliable but by then the damage was done. One of the more eccentric motoring journalists George Bishop bought one I think. He was a bit of a prototype hub nut in some ways. I'm not sure George's Gamma ever went, but he used to sit in it and enjoy it anyway.
I remember reading somewhere (possibly in the Lancia Motor Club magazine) that the Gamma was originally being designed in cooperation with Citroen and would have shared (at least) the suspension with the Cx. The all round strut suspesion came about as they had to develop a new suspension in a harry. I can't even begin to imagine the epic unreliability of a hydro-pneumatic Gamma, but I know I'd just have to have one as classical Lancia meets weird period Citroen is a sort of dream for me. And imagine a GS Pallas with a 1.6 Fulvia V4 fitted, instead of the misbegotten "Birotor"...
Yes, I've since heard similar but despite my Citroen love, it was a link I was unaware of.
We had a Volvo 343 DL at a T reg, and it rusted like that, by the mid 80's the doors had a fist sized hole in it and bubbling everywhere, though the engine ran well...
Very nice the old Gamma, also what a lovely Renault 11.
Very nice. Thank you for this video. This interior looks amazing. Unfortunately it was not running. Ich would like to see a roadtest of it. A shame what has happened to Lancia actually.
I remember these when new. In 1983 or 1984 the Lancia dealer in Shrewsbury had several of the coupes for sale. They struggled to sell them even at nearly 50% discount brand new. Seem to remember they were asking around £5-6k. I was very tempted - but I'd just bought my first new car - a vw polo at £4500!
Lovely! Electric windows all round and electric mirrors for 79. Quite advanced.
Read somewhere or other that the Pininfarina 'shape' of the Gamma Berlina was first worked out for a BMC 1800 show car - the 'Aerodynamica'. That would have been an interesting production model.
In the 80s my headmaster used to get a new Beta every 2 years. Seeing the rust, I now understand why he changed them so often.
That Lancia is uncannily like a Citroen CX in so many ways, particularly the early series1’s predilection to rust. The shape is remarkably similar and I’d give anything to have that interior in my 1980 CX Athena, it’s in incredible condition and almost looks more French than the Citroen’s. Shame about the engine self destructing when going round corners, it could have been interesting trying to adapt that flat four into the CX’s engine bay. What’s even more interesting is the number plate, my CX is registered WMY 50Y, only 37 numbers after that series 2 you showed first. Yes I know that’s for 82/3 and I’ve already said mine is a 1980 model but there’s a reason for that. It was purchased from new in Germany by a member of the British civil service whilst working over there but was ordered in full UK spec. as he new he would be coming back home , which he duly did in 82. That is when the car received its “Y” reg. He owned it for the next 35 years before I became its second owner.
I understand the CX was to get an air-cooled flat 6 similar to the 4 in the GS. That would have been something but Citroen ran out of money....
Carl Pickering I could be wrong but I believe that a flat 6 was originally intended to be fitted into the DS but, as you said, Citroen ran out of cash so had to make do with the pre-war 4 cylinder originally seen in the Traction Avant. The CX was originally intended to receive a 3 rotor Wankel engine which Citroen were jointly developing with NSU and which emerged in 2 rotor form in the Ro80. We all know what happened there, so yet again Citroen were completely cash strapped after the Wankel development costs and were forced into the arms of Peugeot whilst having to employ the later development of the DS engine. Bad decisions? Over reaching faith in their technical and engineering skills? Probably, but that was the Citroen which existed in the 50’s & 60’s and the automotive world will probably never again see a company so focused on seeking solutions to problems which other manufacturers didn’t even recognise as such. There are many other pieces of design on the CX which illustrate Citroens’ forward thinking but it’s all come to naught now. I really believe that the CX was the very zenith of Citroens’ achievements combining all the technology developed in the DS, GS and the magnificent SM but without the latter cars high cost. This soapbox seems to be getting higher by the minute so I’d better climb down before I need some oxygen.
@@malcolmherbert5127 maybe it was the DS? They certainly had form with air-cooled boxers after the 2cv. It would have suited either car.
Can you imagine what a money pit a rotary CX would make? Terrifying to imagine...
Carl Pickering I think that was the problem Citroen perceived. They looked into that pit and couldn’t see the bottom. They did build 2 Wankel engined cars, 1 I think was based the Ami 6 but with a fastback roofline and the other was a GS called the birotor. They ended up having to buy back all but a few to avoid the inevitable un-ending warranty claims.
I just finished reading Matteo Licata's anthology on the entire gestation of the Gamma! Apparently the Berlina was meant to be a translation of the Pininfarina BMC 1800 Aerodynamica concept almost verbatim until Lancia management got involved and wanted a lower load-sill and more 'prominent' front. Still, it's remarkable what Lancia accomplished under such constrained circumstances and very unfortunate that the car never got more popular even after Series II solved most of the critical issues. The double rear window arrangement seems like a ridiculous compromise just to include a separate boot. Oh, the '70s stigma of the infamous hatchback!
Beautiful car "nice action" on the boot.
Although the car looks like it would be a hatchback.
Mother Earth wants her iron ore back , Lancia obliges magnificently