You can also buy an electrical heat stick for mosquito bites. Press it onto your bite and heat it up for a few seconds, and the itch disappears, and the swelling recedes. The battery seems to last forever. I have mine for three years now and never had to replace it.
I don't have problems with mosquito bites but I seem almost allergic to svidknott (gnat?), big swellings and itchy like hell and it lasts for 3-5 days, I heard about this method of heating so I tried it with heating a teaspoon and yeah it really works.
Thanks Matti! I live in the forest in Sweden so I meet some mosquitos every day, but try to avoid using deet on a daily basis. I use a repellent spray that I blend myself every year using Beckolja from Wilma Naturprodukter combined with several different essential oils. Works very well. It also smells like a campfire (like Nordic Summer) and I can spray it on my dog’s fur as well (I always check if the essential oils are save for dogs of course). Only have to apply it a bit more often than the chemical stuff. If it gets really serious, or on longer trips I use the one with the blue cap you showed, but like Stina I don’t spray it on my skin.
On your recommendation I bought some Nordic Summer and now I smell like a carbolicky nurse! I don't like the smell of coal tar. You didn't really go into what to use as bite relief, which might be an interesting subject. I have been all over the world and so far, the worst bites I've had are from St. Malo in Brittany. The mossies there have 4 engines and have left me with scars where I have scratched afterwards. One thing I did find was that if you stay in the tropics long enough, they bite much less than when you first arrive. Blood going thinner? Reduced sugar level? So many still lakes in Sweden, I start scratching just at the thought of it, especially if you have a fire ban. Thanks for raising the subject Matti.
The Mosquito, everywhere in the world, stops biting when the blood levels are to low… 🤣 You can use antihistamine because the bite is an allergic reaction. There are also some interesting comments about putting a hot spoon on the bite. I have never tried but I will. Of course not glowing hot… then I will try at my guests first during some of the guided tours! 😂 …and you will get used with the smell from Nordic summer as long as you never take a shower. Then it will be a relief with the smell of Nordic Summer!!! /Matti /Matti
Matti - Thank you for this informative video on personal protection from mosquitoes in the outdoors. As it has been excessively wet (and combined with the heat & humidity of the season), the mosquito numbers are very high in our area. Recently bought mosquito head nets for the family (to minimize the use of chemicals on the face) so as we can continue on with our outdoor adventures. Looking forward to trying out some of your other tips. Happy Trails! 🇺🇸 🏕 🌲
Everyone wants me to accompany them on hikes because the mosquitoes like my blood type, all the mosquitoes are drawn to me. The mosquito repellents clog the pores and then it mixes with sweat that flows. I have a large mosquito net so I avoid them when I stay.
Ahaaaa… You are a kind of mosquito magnet!?!? That’s exactly the kind of friend you want to go out with because then all mosquitoes will go to you!!! :-) /Matti
Great advice, thanks. I avoid high summer and go to Padjelanta in the cooler second part of August, plus using deet as often as sunscreen on the beach. Have luckily not had a serious mosquito problem.
I also make my own repellent with water and eucalyptus oil and tee tree oil. Has worked great on the west coast in Sweden for me so far but we will see in Abisko in August 😄
Thanks for advice, i found a shop that sells the Nordic Summer cans here in norway so i am exited to try. And since im gonna for a overland trip to sweeden next year it is good to be prepare for even more mosqitos. Lol.
Are Thermacell and similar devices approved for use everywhere in nature in Sweden? Here in Finland they are approved only for use next to buildings in environments without pollinating insects, while prallethrin is said to be dangerous for other insects also. And hence hikers and backpacker rarely use them. And in the nationalparks they are also banned.
You are totally correct!!! They are not healthy for insects. One time I had hundreds of mosquitoes inside my tent. I switched it on and all mosquitoes fall down to the ground. I thought they were dead. I turned the device off and fall to sleep. Next morning there was a lot… really a lot, of blood filled mosquitoes inside my tent. They must have walked up!!! Two things… In Sweden they talk about how bad it is to put the blue tabs in to water. That’s really something that you shouldn’t do! The second thing is that I mailed to Nitecore and asked about the tabs. They are developing something new that is better (less bad?) than the old ones. /Matti
For the laidback Upplands-mygg citronella (Sjö och Hav) works kind of enough, kind to plastic and skin. Gonna try icardin-based this summer. Also much gentler to insects in lakes. On my hikes in Vindeln i gave up chemicals and just had net and clothes. Got mad with the noise anyway... Thermacell is really bad, banned in Finland. Its really poisiouns for aquatic insects, should be avoided near water and pets.
I mostly cover up. I use cheap cigars when fishing a lot, keeps them out of your face... noseeums are ferocious . In emergencies I've used fir and spruce tips mushed up and smeared around. works ok. A couple thousand a year go poof here, The bugs may have got them. We rarely find the bones.
When I walked up and down the North Cape for ten months. I made my own: One part babyoil One part Dettol And few teetreeoil drops if available. It works and has strong smell. And take the itch away. Horseflies just bit through my gloves, special on the knuckles. Anyway also used a meshanorak or sometimes a head net...
Hello I really enjoy your videos. The end of this one was very funny! I have heard that lighting dry coffee grounds and letting them smolder repels mosquitoes. If you try it please let us know if it works. Thank you.
Good vid. Happy to see you out. Bzzzzzz!. Man they can be darn tough and viscious. You left out going to the bathroom in the woods. Seen some bad things. People with whelts on their behinds so big they couldn't ride their motorcycles. And the women. Utter misery. A breeze and clear skies are a welcome sight. I've taped my sleeves to my gloves to keep them out. Nets are good but if one mm slither of skin shows it's game one. You are lunch. All good. See you next time. Be safe
Great video, Matti,...Mosquitoes are no joke,...It's good you have a good sense of humor, with your videos. It's a good balance... I bought a tiny souvenir toy mosquitoe bear trap, in Canada as a fun souvenir, in case of a mosquitoe emergency, hehe..🦟
Takk for gode råd, Matti! Du nevnte at tynne hansker kan være en god beskyttelse for hendene. Har du noen tips om hva som er gode hansker? Noen erfaringer med myggspiral og om de fungerer?
Det är ju samma med handskar som med kläder. De får inte sitta thight och vara genombitbara. Jag har en favvo… Hestra Guide… men den är också dålig om det är blött. Den är egentligen för varm o tung för sommaren. Jag ska klura lite… återkommer kanske med något i filmväg… /Matti
De hanskene må jo garantert beskytte mot mygg, men jeg tenker jo at de nok er veldig varme nå i myggsesongen. Skal snart på tur i Myggland, så jeg satt faktisk og tenkte på hva jeg kunne bruke på hendene da denne videoen dukket opp 😊
You have to try 20% Picaridin (also called Icaradin) on your hoodie and hat gloves then wipe a bit on your face. The best part is it's safe (Deet isn't) for dogs. I spray a bit into my hand then wipe it on both of my dogs muzzles and faces.
Rubbing garlic on mosquito bites works wonders. The itching will go away within a minute. Heat works also. The protein chains that cause the itching will dissolve above 45°C
I have heard about heat but never about garlic! I never get the itchy bits… Probably because I’m a hot man… That’s at least what Stina says to me (in my dreams)! /Matti
Yes, heat works, because it coagulates a protein that causes itching. There are small battery-powered devices that heat about 1 cm2 of skin. The itching then disappears. Very useful with children, too. Thanks Matti 🙂
Absolut så är det så. När man som jag är nu är nere söderut i Sverige och de säger "idag är det mycket mygg" så förstår jag inte vad de menar, ser typ 5 myggor 🤣. /Stina
Thanks so much for this video Matti! Curious to learn what you use inside the tent at night. Or are those the electrical smoke dispensers you mentioned?
Onside the tent… I tries to kill all mosquitoes with my bare hands before going to bed. Then I keep the inner tent closed and I have some time off from the terrible small blood suckers… ;-) /Matti
Same rules apply over here in the Northern Boreal of Canada Matti. Can attest to the gentle, non-drowsy benefits of Loratadine! Poor guy, the skeeters got him 😂
Comprehensive roundup! I've always wondered, how well does Nordic Summer actually work? And how does it compare with the DEET sprays? (Or does it just smell nice)?
It smells really good. I think it makes the job. One difference is that you can’t put Nordic Summer on your clothes. Only on the skin. The DEET-spray is possible to put everywhere. Also on the backpack, hats, tent or whatever! Otherwise I think they are both working totally okay. /Matti
@@JOKKMOKKGUIDERNA Haha there's with the smell again! Great to know it works, I really only want to use DEET as a last resort. Now I can't wait to try it out (and also take a big whiff).
I am very liked by mosquitoes and get bitten a lot even when no one sees any mosquitoes and the bites swell up big even if I take antihistamine. Xylocaine is my only rescue when I've been bitten. It numbs the area long enough to stop itching for a while and then it may calm down for a while after that. I was actually angry when I was recommended that no one informed me about that cream before.
Some people react more than others on mosquitoe bites, more like an allergy. Have you tried different kinds of antihistamines? The active substance in the 💊 could make a difference. For me, Loratadin works very well. /Stina
@@JOKKMOKKGUIDERNA I have tried most of the antihistamine tablets and now have a stronger prescription version. They definitely help, but not completely. Ideally, you should start taking antihistamines a couple of weeks before you go out in mosquito-prone places to have the substance properly rooted in the system, but often it happens spontaneously that you go out into the woods or sit outside in the evening, and then there is no right the time to build up the antihistamine in the system.
This one is from a company called Klattermusen in Sweden. They made this back in the days. Today the company doesn’t make the same quality… sadly… /Matti
They actually still make these wool hoodie it's called Falen Wooly: www.klattermusen.com/sv/herr/trojor-fleece/20619m81-falen-wooly-hoodie-ms-monkshood-blue/?_gl=1*qupuel*_up*MQ..&gclid=Cj0KCQjw4MSzBhC8ARIsAPFOuyVTw0n3RJi5OPRW30tXweTQ6JZUEKRsxLjB22UsIIYx1pH4FHawYycaAizaEALw_wcB /Stina
ahhhhaaaaa……🤔 so THAT is what happened to good old Arne! Looks like he went out for a nice Springtime hike, but left his mosquito repellent sitting on the shelf back at his cabin….🙃‼
I found putting permethrin on my clothing and picaridin works great. I do not use deet because it can damage plastic products.
You can also buy an electrical heat stick for mosquito bites. Press it onto your bite and heat it up for a few seconds, and the itch disappears, and the swelling recedes. The battery seems to last forever. I have mine for three years now and never had to replace it.
I have heard of them but haven’t tried them.
Thanks for reminding me!!!
/Matti
Interesting, news to me.
I don't have problems with mosquito bites but I seem almost allergic to svidknott (gnat?), big swellings and itchy like hell and it lasts for 3-5 days, I heard about this method of heating so I tried it with heating a teaspoon and yeah it really works.
@@JOKKMOKKGUIDERNA It's most effective if you apply it right after the mosquito bite. The longer you wait, the less effective it is.
Hello, would you tell me more about this device please? I will try to find some similar in Hungary. Any detail or recommendation would help. Thanks!
You are so kind to feed the mosquitoes, Mati. And if you want to show us the products, stop waving them around while speaking like an Italian 😂
Hahahaaaa…
‘Waving around and speaking like an Italian’
LOL
Peppermint oil works. I think other herbal oils work as well. But I know peppermint keeps the bugs away.
I use Tiger Balm rubbed on a bite to stop the itch, works really well
Thanks Matti! I live in the forest in Sweden so I meet some mosquitos every day, but try to avoid using deet on a daily basis.
I use a repellent spray that I blend myself every year using Beckolja from Wilma Naturprodukter combined with several different essential oils. Works very well. It also smells like a campfire (like Nordic Summer) and I can spray it on my dog’s fur as well (I always check if the essential oils are save for dogs of course). Only have to apply it a bit more often than the chemical stuff.
If it gets really serious, or on longer trips I use the one with the blue cap you showed, but like Stina I don’t spray it on my skin.
I also love the beckolja and the smell of that as you! Interesting that you are making your own spray!
/Matti
On your recommendation I bought some Nordic Summer and now I smell like a carbolicky nurse! I don't like the smell of coal tar. You didn't really go into what to use as bite relief, which might be an interesting subject. I have been all over the world and so far, the worst bites I've had are from St. Malo in Brittany. The mossies there have 4 engines and have left me with scars where I have scratched afterwards.
One thing I did find was that if you stay in the tropics long enough, they bite much less than when you first arrive. Blood going thinner? Reduced sugar level? So many still lakes in Sweden, I start scratching just at the thought of it, especially if you have a fire ban. Thanks for raising the subject Matti.
The Mosquito, everywhere in the world, stops biting when the blood levels are to low… 🤣
You can use antihistamine because the bite is an allergic reaction. There are also some interesting comments about putting a hot spoon on the bite. I have never tried but I will. Of course not glowing hot… then I will try at my guests first during some of the guided tours!
😂
…and you will get used with the smell from Nordic summer as long as you never take a shower. Then it will be a relief with the smell of Nordic Summer!!!
/Matti
/Matti
Matti - Thank you for this informative video on personal protection from mosquitoes in the outdoors.
As it has been excessively wet (and combined with the heat & humidity of the season), the mosquito numbers are very high in our area.
Recently bought mosquito head nets for the family (to minimize the use of chemicals on the face) so as we can continue on with our outdoor adventures.
Looking forward to trying out some of your other tips.
Happy Trails!
🇺🇸 🏕 🌲
Thanks!
/Matti
Everyone wants me to accompany them on hikes because the mosquitoes like my blood type, all the mosquitoes are drawn to me. The mosquito repellents clog the pores and then it mixes with sweat that flows. I have a large mosquito net so I avoid them when I stay.
Ahaaaa… You are a kind of mosquito magnet!?!? That’s exactly the kind of friend you want to go out with because then all mosquitoes will go to you!!!
:-)
/Matti
Great advice, thanks. I avoid high summer and go to Padjelanta in the cooler second part of August, plus using deet as often as sunscreen on the beach. Have luckily not had a serious mosquito problem.
Sounds great!
In August the mosquitoes are usually really few most of the time.
/Matti
I also make my own repellent with water and eucalyptus oil and tee tree oil. Has worked great on the west coast in Sweden for me so far but we will see in Abisko in August 😄
Interesting!!!
Luckily in August it’s already much less mosquitoes… normally…
/Matti
Thanks for advice, i found a shop that sells the Nordic Summer cans here in norway so i am exited to try. And since im gonna for a overland trip to sweeden next year it is good to be prepare for even more mosqitos. Lol.
There is mosquitoes here and we are really happy to share them with you brothers in the west!
😃
/Matti
Are Thermacell and similar devices approved for use everywhere in nature in Sweden? Here in Finland they are approved only for use next to buildings in environments without pollinating insects, while prallethrin is said to be dangerous for other insects also. And hence hikers and backpacker rarely use them. And in the nationalparks they are also banned.
You are totally correct!!! They are not healthy for insects. One time I had hundreds of mosquitoes inside my tent. I switched it on and all mosquitoes fall down to the ground. I thought they were dead. I turned the device off and fall to sleep.
Next morning there was a lot… really a lot, of blood filled mosquitoes inside my tent. They must have walked up!!!
Two things…
In Sweden they talk about how bad it is to put the blue tabs in to water. That’s really something that you shouldn’t do!
The second thing is that I mailed to Nitecore and asked about the tabs. They are developing something new that is better (less bad?) than the old ones.
/Matti
@@JOKKMOKKGUIDERNA Good to hear that they are working on something less dangerous to pollinators. It’s needed.
For the laidback Upplands-mygg citronella (Sjö och Hav) works kind of enough, kind to plastic and skin. Gonna try icardin-based this summer. Also much gentler to insects in lakes. On my hikes in Vindeln i gave up chemicals and just had net and clothes. Got mad with the noise anyway...
Thermacell is really bad, banned in Finland. Its really poisiouns for aquatic insects, should be avoided near water and pets.
The noise can be really annoying!!!
/Matti
Thanks for sharing your experiences with mosquitos.
Warm Regards from far away Reno, Nevada, U.S.A.
I would love to share some of the mosquitoes also!!! I don’t need them all.
😃
/Matti
Like you say, antihistamine works in different ways for some people. Is it good to take before trip to build up resistance?
I mostly cover up. I use cheap cigars when fishing a lot, keeps them out of your face... noseeums are ferocious .
In emergencies I've used fir and spruce tips mushed up and smeared around. works ok.
A couple thousand a year go poof here, The bugs may have got them. We rarely find the bones.
Good tip👍🙂
Cigars… that’s maybe a reason to start smoking!
🤣
I have heard rumours about your mosquitoes… they eat humans with bone and everything…
/Matti
When I walked up and down the North Cape for ten months. I made my own:
One part babyoil
One part Dettol
And few teetreeoil drops if available.
It works and has strong smell. And take the itch away.
Horseflies just bit through my gloves, special on the knuckles.
Anyway also used a meshanorak or sometimes a head net...
I have used Mosiguard for a while, its also more kind to the skin.
Is that a kind of mosquito jacket? /Matti
Hello I really enjoy your videos. The end of this one was very funny! I have heard that lighting dry coffee grounds and letting them smolder repels mosquitoes. If you try it please let us know if it works. Thank you.
I also heard about the coffee hack. I have to try that!!!
Thanks for reminding me!!!
/Matti
I know for a fact that it works. A gfruend of mine burns ground coffee whenever her family sits in their garden.
Good vid. Happy to see you out. Bzzzzzz!. Man they can be darn tough and viscious. You left out going to the bathroom in the woods. Seen some bad things. People with whelts on their behinds so big they couldn't ride their motorcycles. And the women. Utter misery. A breeze and clear skies are a welcome sight. I've taped my sleeves to my gloves to keep them out. Nets are good but if one mm slither of skin shows it's game one. You are lunch. All good. See you next time. Be safe
Nordic Summer is my perfume of choice 🥰 Delicious
Have you tried spays with picaridin rather than deet? Supposed to not be as harsh on plastics. Find it works well in Singapore
No… I have never tried that!
/Matto
Thanks for sharing!
Matti, watching your video is making me itch like crazy!!!😮 what about keeping the mozzies away from our dawgie friends??
🤣
Some great practical advice. I'd come to some of the same conclusions on a few of those things on myown, so I'm interested to try the other ideas.
"DEET is not vitamin" :DDD loved it
Hi , varm up a spoon - the hold it on the bite for 10 sec- then it will not itch for many hours!
That’s a hack I never heard about!!! Thanks!!!
/Matti
Great video, Matti,...Mosquitoes are no joke,...It's good you have a good sense of humor, with your videos. It's a good balance... I bought a tiny souvenir toy mosquitoe bear trap, in Canada as a fun souvenir, in case of a mosquitoe emergency, hehe..🦟
Takk for gode råd, Matti! Du nevnte at tynne hansker kan være en god beskyttelse for hendene. Har du noen tips om hva som er gode hansker? Noen erfaringer med myggspiral og om de fungerer?
Det är ju samma med handskar som med kläder. De får inte sitta thight och vara genombitbara. Jag har en favvo… Hestra Guide… men den är också dålig om det är blött. Den är egentligen för varm o tung för sommaren.
Jag ska klura lite… återkommer kanske med något i filmväg… /Matti
De hanskene må jo garantert beskytte mot mygg, men jeg tenker jo at de nok er veldig varme nå i myggsesongen. Skal snart på tur i Myggland, så jeg satt faktisk og tenkte på hva jeg kunne bruke på hendene da denne videoen dukket opp 😊
You have to try 20% Picaridin (also called Icaradin) on your hoodie and hat gloves then wipe a bit on your face. The best part is it's safe (Deet isn't) for dogs. I spray a bit into my hand then wipe it on both of my dogs muzzles and faces.
Vad är det för tröja? Ser grymt skön ut.
Den är grymt skön! Det är en Klättermusen hoodie av ylle. Riktigt bra. Tyvärr så görs inte dessa längre… tror jag.
/Matti
Love your video! 😂 I'll be in lapland mid august 🦟🦟🦟
Welcome to the North!
Rubbing garlic on mosquito bites works wonders. The itching will go away within a minute.
Heat works also. The protein chains that cause the itching will dissolve above 45°C
I have heard about heat but never about garlic!
I never get the itchy bits… Probably because I’m a hot man… That’s at least what Stina says to me (in my dreams)!
/Matti
Yes, heat works, because it coagulates a protein that causes itching.
There are small battery-powered devices that heat about 1 cm2 of skin. The itching then disappears. Very useful with children, too.
Thanks Matti 🙂
Tack för bra tips, tror du man vänjer sig vid eländet, vi som är ute mycket i mygg markerna har högre tollerans än dom som imte är ute så mtcket?
Absolut så är det så. När man som jag är nu är nere söderut i Sverige och de säger "idag är det mycket mygg" så förstår jag inte vad de menar, ser typ 5 myggor 🤣. /Stina
Thanks so much for this video Matti! Curious to learn what you use inside the tent at night. Or are those the electrical smoke dispensers you mentioned?
Onside the tent… I tries to kill all mosquitoes with my bare hands before going to bed. Then I keep the inner tent closed and I have some time off from the terrible small blood suckers… ;-)
/Matti
Same rules apply over here in the Northern Boreal of Canada Matti. Can attest to the gentle, non-drowsy benefits of Loratadine! Poor guy, the skeeters got him 😂
I think you got some really crazy mosquito areas in Canada!
:-)
/Matti
@@JOKKMOKKGUIDERNA Oh yes! Legend.
In Maine we have black fly, mosquitos and no see thems all wanting to bite you just like lapland
When mosquitoes disappear, for example in Sarek Park ?
Depends on the weather, but as soon as you get a frosty night, they will be gone. /Stina
Comprehensive roundup! I've always wondered, how well does Nordic Summer actually work? And how does it compare with the DEET sprays? (Or does it just smell nice)?
It smells really good. I think it makes the job. One difference is that you can’t put Nordic Summer on your clothes. Only on the skin. The DEET-spray is possible to put everywhere. Also on the backpack, hats, tent or whatever!
Otherwise I think they are both working totally okay. /Matti
@@JOKKMOKKGUIDERNA Haha there's with the smell again! Great to know it works, I really only want to use DEET as a last resort. Now I can't wait to try it out (and also take a big whiff).
I am very liked by mosquitoes and get bitten a lot even when no one sees any mosquitoes and the bites swell up big even if I take antihistamine. Xylocaine is my only rescue when I've been bitten. It numbs the area long enough to stop itching for a while and then it may calm down for a while after that. I was actually angry when I was recommended that no one informed me about that cream before.
Some people react more than others on mosquitoe bites, more like an allergy. Have you tried different kinds of antihistamines? The active substance in the 💊 could make a difference. For me, Loratadin works very well. /Stina
@@JOKKMOKKGUIDERNA I have tried most of the antihistamine tablets and now have a stronger prescription version. They definitely help, but not completely. Ideally, you should start taking antihistamines a couple of weeks before you go out in mosquito-prone places to have the substance properly rooted in the system, but often it happens spontaneously that you go out into the woods or sit outside in the evening, and then there is no right the time to build up the antihistamine in the system.
I get itchy even hearing the mosquitoes in your mic. What about the dogs? Get they stitched?
Yepp… they bit the dogs to… I sometimes have to put mosquito repellent on them also. During the night I always bring them inside the tent. /Matti
Thank you Matti 👍❤. Just beat them.... Lol, the eind of this video 😅
I think I come back in september ❤❤❤❤
😂👍
Matti!! Where did you get that nice wool hoodie?
This one is from a company called Klattermusen in Sweden. They made this back in the days. Today the company doesn’t make the same quality… sadly… /Matti
@@JOKKMOKKGUIDERNA I thought so... I love that piece and have seen them in Umea worn around.. :( I wish I could find something similar... :(
They actually still make these wool hoodie it's called Falen Wooly: www.klattermusen.com/sv/herr/trojor-fleece/20619m81-falen-wooly-hoodie-ms-monkshood-blue/?_gl=1*qupuel*_up*MQ..&gclid=Cj0KCQjw4MSzBhC8ARIsAPFOuyVTw0n3RJi5OPRW30tXweTQ6JZUEKRsxLjB22UsIIYx1pH4FHawYycaAizaEALw_wcB /Stina
ahhhhaaaaa……🤔 so THAT is what happened to good old Arne! Looks like he went out for a nice Springtime hike, but left his mosquito repellent sitting on the shelf back at his cabin….🙃‼
🤣👍 Happy to see that you watched to the end!
I've also found that I have to treat my dogs-if the dogs crowd round me the mosquitos go up tenfold
11:15
Alas poor yorick, I knew him well
He looks like Adam from mythbusters.
🤣
Salubrin på myggbetten- också ett barndomsminne 😂
Ohh jaaa. Barndomsminne för mig också. /Stina
Bear spray and a bow? 😂
😂
Doggo is 🦟 mosquito bait
🙃
DEET will delaminate jackets and pants.
Thanks. I have never heard that!
/Matti