Rev. Dr. Kappes is the top living Mariologist and one of the top Christologists as well. He is a master of theology and this interview was fantastic. It's a thrill you had him on! You're the man, Matt!
William, did you ever figure out that Epiphanius was “not” teaching about the bodily Assumption, but since there are more than one “Elijah” in the Bible, he was simply describing his Assumption into Heaven to distinguish him from other Elijah’s in Scripture? Just as he describes John as laying his head on the Lord’s breast to distinguish him from other Johns in Scripture? If not, this is why James White calls you “the king of eisegesis.”
@@BornAgainRN I’m not William but it seems you are just trying to be the Mr. Unpleasant Guy when Albrecht is making a compliment to Fr Kappes, his friend I guess (and a theologian we can and must all appreciate). So your comment gets to the level of being infantile: “if not, then you are (fill in the blanks)”. I’ve addressed myself your claims about Eastern churches allegedly denying the Immaculate Conception in a comment you made on a video on the “Counsel of Trent” channel and I was not answered, so why William (or anyone) should respond to you, specially in a provocative post? Besides, I would blindly affirm William probably knows more of St Epiphanius of Salamis than you. All day. The discussions St Epiphanius propposes about Mary having died or not - calling it her dormition without defining it -, the way this Church Father discusses it would make you fail to even scratch the surface of his theology with this sort of counter-historical and shallow evangelical Protestant mindset, let alone his Mariology. May the Holy Spirit soften your petrified heart. *EDIT:* I took the word “pastor” out. Thank God you are not a shepherd, as someone so guided by hatred towards the Catholic Church (as American Protestants are commonly indoctrinated to be).
@@masterchief8179 and as I expected, instead of being objective, you just assumed that Albrecht knows what he is talking about. In reality, all he does is take a snippet from Panarion 79 from Epiphanius, taking it completely out of context, & ignores the surrounding passage to discern what Epiphanius is actually trying to convey. That is why Albrecht cannot exegete out of a paper bag, because he is beginning with an "infallible" dogma that was unheard of nearly the first 1/2 millennium, other than from an apocryphal text - that was anathematized by an early pope (without separating the dogma from the work it originated from). So, just as your assumption about me being a pastor is wrong, your assumption that Albrecht's eisegesis of Scripture & ECFs is as well. And that is all the Assumption of Mary is - just an assumption, based neither on Scripture nor "sacred tradition," but on the Magisterium alone. That is why guys like Albrecht are forced to use false Marian typologies, no different than Muslims have done with Jesus to deny His deity. Fr. Kappes is no different. I have listened to him before, and his explanations are substandard at best, reading his theology into Scripture, like Mary's comment about God being her Savior meaning something other than what the Greek ACTUALLY reveals. Yes, it is THAT transparent.
christie is banned on all top catholic channels. plz ask gary michuta william albrecht erick ybarra and michael lofton and they will tell you he is a troll that no one takes seriously. he is also banned by some orthodox. he trolls catholic apologists. you just have to reach out to fradd or one of his mods since this creep is starting to fill the pints shows with his anti catholic hatred. he is so mad that he isnt taken seriously.
@@juancrusader3590 OK, now the truth. A troll is someone who just leaves comments or Internet links, without taking the time to watch videos and then assessing them. This is what Catholics do on my channel. I did not do that on Gary’s and William’s channels. I actually take the time to watch their videos in their entirety, and then make comments. The problem is William doesn’t like that, because he doesn’t know how to address my arguments, so he just calls me and other protestants who do the same “trolls.” In reality, William is the one who is “anti-Protestant“ because he personally insults people who don’t agree with them, including calling me “mentally challenged“ because I disagreed with him in a live chat, which he put me in time out. He also calls people “stupid,“ for the same reason. William had contacted me a couple years ago and wanted to debate me on the canon, which I was going to do, but a family emergency of his came up. It never got rescheduled. During a live TH-cam program he was having with Gary, I had called in to discuss the topic they were talking about, and William hung up on me. He then publicly told his listeners that him and I were going to debate, without checking with me first. When I refused to debate him, this is when he began calling me names, and allowing his so-called “moderators“ to block my comments from the public. This is why you need to get both sides of the story, and not just from the one that you like. Just because William is Catholic that doesn’t mean that he’s right, and I’m wrong because I’m Protestant. Next time get both sides of the story and try to be a little objective. THIS is the REAL reason why I am “banned” on his and Gary’s TH-cam channels, as well as reason and theology. I’m a bit disappointed by Michael Lofton, because he appears to be objective, and he even stated he enjoyed having me on his show, and wanted me to come back on. But William lies so much, and since they are cohosts on reason and theology, unfortunately Michael just believes what he says, probably because he’s Catholic and I’m not.
We have had Fr. Christiaan Kappes on Reason and Theology before. He has been someone we look up to as a theological and intellectual giant. This video here barely scratches the surface of this man's knowledge base. That is not to say anything about his kindness and gentle character. Glad you had him on. Erick Ybarra
@YAJUN YUAN I think the better argument is that salvation is not just an individual thing, for God to be Mary's savior is simply because she shares in the salvation and exaltation of her people, their deliverance from their enemies and sharing in the fulfillment of God's eschatological promises (the very kinds of things her song talks about).
Fr Kappes is simply amazing, listening to this podcast now for the third time. Like a good book always something new on the re read. Such a blessing to have him able to communicate with us all.
Father Kannes advice about Vespers and Fish Fries is excellent. I love the Liturgy of the Hours which I learned to pray in jail in Wichita KS during the Summer of Mercy for rescuing preborn children
No he's not, he's trotting out basic historical falsehoods. For example, he says the Council of Jerusalem is consistent with the Immaculate Conception, but Decree 6 says the Theotokos has Original Sin. Roman Catholic dogma is that the Theotokos did not have original sin. Roman Catholics should not rely on a casual relationship with truth to make their case.
Unless he is a member of a consecrated marriage whether as a consecrated celibate marriage vowed to man in Christ or a male female couple marriage vowed to God, Fr Christiaan Kappes cannot keep or allow in uncertainty of belief the inseparability and qualitative equality of his procreation gift, helper of the family within the family, 'do-ing' "intellect..." thinking and his 'be-ing' having faith in the meeting of the need of identities of his family members for union (cf. Pope St Paul V1's Encyclical Letter: "Of Human Life", Humanae Vitae, 1968, 12: marriage has 'Two inseparable aspects: union and procreation")
@@cyriljorge986 I might have a reading comprehension issue. I’m reading degree 6 of the synod of Jerusalem 1672 and it begins by stating original sin is a real thing, something that gladdens me since it’s a pet peeve of mine when EOs reject it. The decree reads, “We believe the first man created by God to have fallen in Paradise, when, disregarding the Divine commandment, he yielded to the deceitful counsel of the serpent. And as a result hereditary sin flowed to his posterity; so that everyone who is born after the flesh bears this burden, and experiences the fruits of it in this present world.” Excellent! As to the Blessed Virgin Mary Mother of God, it says: “especially the Mother of God the Word, the ever-virgin Mary, did not experience these [sins], or such like faults.” Is this not the immaculate conception? I’m using this translation: www.crivoice.org/creeddositheus.html Please correct me if I’m wrong, God bless you brother.
Old Irish Proverb : "Tis sad to see the sons of Learning doth in Ever lasting Hell Fire Burning, while him that doth never Learned a Word doth Now in Eternity ever Shining" !
@@oliverclark5604from the beginning of the episode, I believe Fr Kappes said he was a Latin priest first before then becoming a Byzantine priest. If he was a Latin priest, he would almost certainly be celibate. It seems like you're suggesting that he should get married and have children now he's Byzantine? But that would require breaking Apostolic practice of not allowing ordained men to get married. AFAIK, no Apostolic Church allows for this, but only the reverse: married men can be ordained.
I grew up on the TLM and in my passive years in the 60's just went for what my son called the microwave mass. In my revert in the 80's, I sought the old Mass in rare venues but was happy to find one just before Covid19 struck. Now the TLM has not been revived with the NO. Now I attend an SSPX once a month and really value the reverence up across the communion rail including the laity. Now even in the NO I get communion on the tongue from the priest who can't withhold the Host with my tongue sticking out. Very prudent of such priests. I do miss the prayers to Saints and many features in the Mass of the Ages. EWTN tries to be as close. 🙏 😇
Father Kappes is one of my favorite modern day theologians, his great works on the Energies Essence Distinction has helped me greatly come to better theological understandings
@@GuadalupePicasso his academia provides his better works. Some are simply just translations like Gennadios Scholorios’s work against Aquinas. He has really well made works though such as *The Theology of the Divine Essence and Energies in George-Gennadios* and *Palamas among the Scholastics*. There are tons of other great works by him, just check his academia for most of it, but do keep in mind he is a Scotus so that is the opinion you will find but I love that opinion so it’s good for me.
@@slocole1005 thanks! I’m a big fan of Palamas (I’ve read his Triads, as well as a collection of his homilies), and I never understood the radtrad tendency to be so negative towards him.
@@GuadalupePicasso it’s just an “Aquinas only” view many of them take, since Palamas and Aquinas differ significantly on divine simplicity, but I think Dun Scotus in the West and Palamas in the East both grasped onto a neat mystical theological view that Aquinas never really accepted that I find truly profound
John Harmsen, I believe it is a case of the "intellect" of Fr Dr Kappes of not having its inseparability and qualitative equality kept with having faith. To 'out occult' "knowing good and evil" (RSV Genesis 3:5) in do-ing gift procreation role as a helper of the family within the family and 'be-ing' in need of union identity as a valid and proper family member of a valid and proper marriage, one must not know one's role and identity but keep or allow in uncertainty of belief the inseparability and qualitative equality of one's role and identity to exercise an absolute power of authorisation of applications of procreation role ensuring and union identity insuring. If Matt Fradd in another person's post stating Matt Fradd "had him on! in a vernacular sense of fooling him in referring to Dr Kappes, was a valid and proper family member of a valid and proper marriage he exercised an absolute power of authorisation to have Dr Kappes "on" by out occulting the occult as hidden, incest connected as substitute mate, falsehood of Dr Kappes position on the Immaculate Conception. Dr Kappes' faulty, I believe, both Mariology and Christology is revealed in Matt Fradd consciously or unwittingly drawing out the error in the position of Dr Kappes on the Immaculate Conception of Mary that in error is consistent with I believe false roman catholic role group dogma. Roman catholic role group thinking about "Conception" is in error up to Pope Francis (who from his election on 13 March 2013 has been prudently correcting this error) in either not understanding or acknowledging the 'qualitative equality' of "procreation and union" in marriage in only asserting they are "inseparable" (Humanae Vitae, 1968, 12). This thinking is infected by the C13th AD St Thomas Aquinas holding that faith and reason were only inseparable and not also qualitatively equal as required for believing as in uncertainty the keeping or allowing of the inseparability and qualitative equality of thinking reason and having faith. After economist and statistician as Director of the Oxford University, UK Institute of Agricultural Economics, Colin Clark, simultaneously advised in 1964 but without also example Pope Paul V1's Commission on Population and the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organisation of his finding of "just about paripassu rate of growth of population [cf. marriage] and food supplies in the developing countries [cf. eucharist], Pope St Paul V1 on this reference point through only advice was not able to add "qualitatively equal" with "inseparable" for union and procreation in marriage in HV, 1968, 12. From his election on 13 March 2013, Pope Francis de facto corrected this omission of "qualitatively equal".
Love that he brought up other countries and liturgy. Sometimes in the west we are so focused on ourselves that we forget that the church is universal. I thought I would hate novus ordo but being raised protestant I actually really enjoyed it and felt it was more accessible to those who are not familiar with traditional mass. We are Orthodox converts but are interested in Catholicism.
Rev Dr Kappes is one among a few Byzantine theologian who truly grasped the broader nuances and delicate intricacies in polemical debate on immaculate conception and filioque. Such a blessing to study under him in the Byzantine Catholic Seminary.
Dun Scotus rocks my socks! Always listen to you the whole way. So proud of a fellow faithful Aussie being of great service to Catholics all over the world! Keep it up :)
Father mentioned Anglo-Catholics towards the end. I never knew the Ordinariate existed before I worked part time for a school in San Antonio, TX. I have to say, the community and the liturgy are BEAUTIFUL at Our Lady of the Atonement. I think their school is the only Catholic school in the San Antonio area with Daily Mass. I have definitely benefitted from the parish and community there
Michael Reyes, I believe that this Ordinariate role group was only able to have all its activities advantageously combined with all the activities of the roman catholic role group on Pope Francis de facto from his election on 13 March 2013 completing, particularly in the cases of alleged embezzlement by Cardinal Angelo Becciu and nine others of procreation gift charity donations by helpers of the family within the family and the "Zan" bill before the Italian Parliament as an unacceptable risk if passed of fraud on union need of identities of family members of valid and proper marriages, Pope St Paul V1's Encyclical Letter: "Of Human Life", Humanae Vitae, 1968, 12: marriage has: "Two inseparable aspects: union and procreation" by adding "and qualitatively equal" with "inseparable".
Such an incredible interview!! Farther Kappes is such a great teacher! I learned so much about the immaculate conception and it’s history. Thank you so much for this interview!
This program is the most fascinating one I have heard on the matter , Father Kappes is so knowledge, fascinating and so humble and kind. I have gone twice over this program. I hope we can have him again. He makes everything fit without conflict and anger. So much beautiful information. I'm an MD. and Third Order Franciscan, this program is a real gift.
Duns Scotus rocks my socks! Thank you for having this discussion with Fr. Christiaan Kappes. As a Reformed Presbyterian Protestant who is curious about Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy, I found this discussion very informative.
He's trotting out basic historical falsehoods. For example, he says the Council of Jerusalem is consistent with the Immaculate Conception, but Decree 6 says the Theotokos has Original Sin. Roman Catholic dogma is that the Theotokos did not have original sin. Roman Catholics should not rely on a casual relationship with truth to make their case.
@@cyriljorge986What are you talking about? The Council of Jerusalem is found in Acts 15, there is nothing even remotely close to the lie that the Theotokos, the Mother of God and ever-Virgin Mary "has original sin" as you've asserted. Where are you getting your information?
Really appreciate Fr. Kappes' balanced take on TLM v. NO, especially his point about the NO's success in evangelizing Africa. I also gotta note -- as someone who converted from nondenominational Protestantism (very anti-liturgy) -- that a reverent, well-done NO truly IS an excellent outreach tool to a lot of the more "traditional" Christian denominations in the U.S.
@@StoaoftheSouth stats would be helpful, but this seems to track sociologically (Quakers were one of the first denominations to try bring Africans into their churches as part of the same worship service, but failed because the African cultural-religious experience didn't translate well into services with long stretches of silence. This is one reason why Methodism and other forms of Protestantism popular during the Great Awakening evangelized a lot of African communities in America, both pre and post Civil War -- culturally, active worship was more familiar. Or so the thinking goes.)
@@KM-ec2qv KM, the relevant "stats" are those on which the finding by Colin Clark by 1964 are based simultaneously advised by Clark to the Pope St Paul V1's Commission on Population and the UNO Food and Agriculture Organisation of "just about paripassu rate of growth of population [cf. marriage identity in need of union] and food supplies in the developing countries [cf. eucharist as procreation gift role of helpers of the family within the family]. This simultaneous advising of this finding together with Pope Francis from his election on 13 March 2013 completing it by example as well as advice keeping their inseparability and qualitative equality withstands the extreme tensions of positions of roman catholic church role group persons on the Immaculate Conception. These positions stated from 1858 as infallible dogma are based on the omission of 'qualitatively equal' in St Thomas Aquinas' proof of the inseparability of faith and reason in his ignorance of the qualitatively equal as well as inseparable nature of the male's procreation gift role in conception and the female's union need in her part in conception of identities of her valid and proper family members as of a valid and proper marriage.
Dr. Kappes' research of liturgical reform and sensitivity towards the Eastern and Western rites confirmed my suspicions about incremental reforms over time.
Duns Scotus rocks my socks. It was an honor to meet Fr Kappes at a Come and See event that the Byzantine Catholic Seminary hosted. Would love to study under him one day, God willing
I'm pretty late, but Duns Scotus rocks my socks! My parish had Fr. Kappes off and on for a couple of years, he's a wonderful priest and this was a great conversation. I'm off to watch the more recent discussion with him and William Albrecht
Don scotus rocks my socks! Fantastic interview! Appreciate the encouragement to take up Liturgy of the Hours more. It’s beautiful and I love any chance I get to pray it communally.
Finally got to visit in person with him shortly before this interview. He is a phenomenal scholar with great insights and similar perspectives after reviewing my initial draft of the forthcoming book "Reclaiming our Inheritance after Vatican II" (in progress as a co-published work with Dr Matthew Minerd on the magisterial foundations of principles of liturgical reform and organic development, from an eastern perspective. Hopefully Matthew and I can get it to press before the end of 2023!).
This is the best podcast on our Church's evolution. Finally, non-combative and intellectual. I really hope that the extreme fundamentalists against the Pope will understand.
This is awesome. Thank you for dealing with some of those hairy questions. I am newly an Eastern Catholic (Orthodox for many years) and have had many Latin Catholics roll their eyes at the Eastern view and always refer to Aquinas. It can be infuriating. It seems the Franciscan view lines up better with the East. Very informative.
It’s so strange many people are saying the TLM people are very snarky and prestigious but I have been going for years now and have not witnessed it even once
@@paulthehanna I’m currently a catechumen at an Orthodox Church but keep trying to decide whether I want to go through with it or go Catholic instead, would you mind if I asked for the reason/reasons you decided to convert?
travisinsiam, I hope this material that I offer you as follows gives you both eucharistic procreation gift of food and marriage need of union as population "food for thought" as inseparable and qualitatively equal. To 'out occult' "knowing good and evil" (RSV Genesis 3:5) in do-ing gift procreation role as a helper of the family within the family and 'be-ing' in need of union identity as a valid and proper family member of a valid and proper marriage, one must not know one's role and identity but keep or allow in uncertainty of belief the inseparability and qualitative equality of one's role and identity to exercise an absolute power of authorisation of applications of procreation role ensuring and union identity insuring. If Matt Fradd in another person's post stating Matt Fradd "had him on! in a vernacular sense of fooling him in referring to Dr Kappes, was a valid and proper family member of a valid and proper marriage he exercised an absolute power of authorisation to have Dr Kappes "on" by out occulting the occult as hidden, incest connected as substitute mate, falsehood of Dr Kappes position on the Immaculate Conception. Dr Kappes' faulty, I believe, both Mariology and Christology is revealed in Matt Fradd consciously or unwittingly drawing out the error in the position of Dr Kappes on the Immaculate Conception of Mary that in error is consistent with I believe false roman catholic role group dogma. Roman catholic role group thinking about "Conception" is in error up to Pope Francis (who from his election on 13 March 2013 has been prudently correcting this error) in either not understanding or acknowledging the 'qualitative equality' of "procreation and union" in marriage in only asserting they are "inseparable" (Humanae Vitae, 1968, 12). This thinking is infected by the C13th AD St Thomas Aquinas holding that faith and reason were only inseparable and not also qualitatively equal as required for believing as in uncertainty the keeping or allowing of the inseparability and qualitative equality of thinking reason and having faith. After economist and statistician as Director of the Oxford University, UK Institute of Agricultural Economics, Colin Clark, simultaneously advised in 1964 but without also example Pope Paul V1's Commission on Population and the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organisation of his finding of: "... just about paripassu rate of growth of population [cf. marriage] and food supplies in the developing countries [cf. eucharist]", Pope St Paul V1 on this reference point through only advice was not able to add "qualitatively equal" with "inseparable" for union and procreation in marriage in HV, 1968, 12. From his election on 13 March 2013, Pope Francis in not knowing his role and identity but in uncertainty believing in their inseparability and qualitative equality de facto corrected this omission of "qualitatively equal" by exercise of his absolute power of authorisation in the out-occulting of the occult evil of this omission by his simultaneous authorisations on or about 10 June 2021 of applications of observation measurement terms by his Vatican state Secretariat of State in the cases of alleged embezzlement by Cardinal Angelo Becciu and nine others of procreation role gift charity donations by helpers of the family within the family (presently on indictments before Pope Francis' Vatican state civil court) and of alleged unacceptable risk of fraud on need of union of identities in valid and proper marriage in the case of the "Zan" anti-homophobia bill before the Italian Parliament (defeated in early November 2021).
Duns Scotus rocks my socks!!! But I guess I cheated, because I just heard this great interview while I was driving doing my job in South Texas over the podcast, not TH-cam… it was a great listening. And I was not on the live interview, but nevertheless, I learned a lot. Thank you Matt!
Duns Scotus rock my socks either! Thank you very much for having rev Kappes! I wish he were out professor here in Russia, Saint Petersburg. Especially with our seminary being bi-ritual in practice though having not a balanced curriculum for both the Easterners and the Scotus-enjoyers!
I Appreciate this discussion very much as I believe the ancient liturgical disciplines of both the east and the west have great value and should be preserved and encouraged. As a convert to Catholicism in 2010 from a Southern Baptist tradition, I want to join the Anglican Ordinariate, because I see it as the perfect preservation of the TLM translated into Elizabethan English. Unfortunately, the hierarchy under Francis wants to force it into the Novus Ordo.
What a great idea! I have many Bible versions,and on several I tab the books. But I never thought of tabbing themes for prayers. I bought the compact rose gold large print NLT.a version Thanks. I don’t have. I am excited to put a prayer Bible together!
35:00 The rite of communion inside mass that we know at the TLM is not included in the 1570 Pius V edition of the Missal, this is true. *But it is included explicitly in the Clement VIII edition, which was authorized in 1604.* This is the edition that introduced a numerical ranking of feasts (1st class, 2nd class, etc.), and it was the first to implement the newly standardized Sixto-Clementine Vulgate for the lessons. The slightly longer rubrical texts of this Clementine Missal (1604) were retained nearly identical up until 1962. When we speak of the Tridentine rubrics, we're really talking about this version, and this version tells us exactly what to do at Communion inside mass. The Roman Ritual's first Tridentine Edition, published under Paul V in 1614, gives the same instruction--unlike what Father says, it DOES say what to do for Communion inside mass (it more or less says do exactly the same as communion outside mass--this is 1614, 300 years before Pius X). The first Tridentine Roman Pontifical (1595), interestingly, mentions the confiteor, misereatur, and indulgentiuam, but omits a mention of Ecce Agnus Dei. But, in the appendix, which was added in 1859 under Benedict XIV, giving the rites of ordination explicitly in the singular form instead of the plural, Ecce Agnus Dei is included. The Memoriale Rituum (1724), which describes ceremonies for solemn rites lacking a deacon and subdeacon, includes Ecce Agnus Dei. This obviously has nothing to do with the promotion of frequent communion by Pius X 300 years later the 1604 missal. It is NOT true that "nobody knew how to do Communion inside mass" until Pius X. All of these books I just mentioned give the possibility and the method. The initial Pontifical alone suggests that Ecce Agnus Dei was not yet universal, but within two decades, it was universal. Ecce Agnus Dei +Domine non sum dignus is certainly part of the larger Tridentine reform, which took about 50 years to complete. What Father has called attention to is an interesting tidbit regarding certain transitional elements during the process of the reform. It does not show that a well-beloved part of the TLM is new--1604 is not new. It is also the 1604 edition that changes where "Haec quotiescumque" after the consecration of the chalice is recited from while elevating to while genuflecting. Yet it is more likely this is not a change at all, but a case where the rubrics were ambiguous and the newer edition made it clear to conform with what priests were actually doing. The Roman Missal of 1474, 100 years earlier, includes haec quotiescumque with the words of consecration, does not mention elevations or genuflections at all, even though we know by that point there were elevations and two genuflections. The rubrics in the Missal are not the liturgy--the liturgy is what the priests actually do. Sometimes the rubrics fail to accurately describe the rite, as in the initial version of the Tridentine missal. The 1501 edition of the Roman Missal gives the "correct" version, which 1570 failed to carefully describe, and which the 1604 version "restores": the priest recites up until "peccatorum," genuflects while reciting "haec quotiescumque..." and then elevates the chalice. Father is trying to argue for vernacular in the TLM, but this is not a good argument for it. Vernacular would be a massive change; the things he mentioned were either miniscule changes or not changes at all.
This interview hit me right in the feels. It is so weird seeing some of these people being interviewed on this channel with ties to Indianapolis where I have very strong ties myself to. I absolutely love the Byzantine Rite and am having some hardship with it right now because apparently I am too Orthodox despite literally never being Orthodox, it was just how I was formed in the Byzantine Rite. Now I am told it is all wrong by another BR priest.
I really appreciate what this guy is saying about the progression of the liturgy across time. I do worry that he is debating a position that the majority of people seeking more Orthodox liturgy are not advocating for. We are not advocating for a completely static church. We are advocating against the loss of like a liturgical significance in common practice by even good and well-meaning and believing and committed clergy and laity. Finding a way to make the novus ordo a spiritually significant liturgy is challenging. And it's rare that I have ever experienced it, meanwhile stumble into almost any Latin Mass and you will be humbled. It's amazing that you can not speak Latin as I do not and cannot escape the significance of that. Liturgy. Meanwhile, I can speak English and most English novus ordo masses I attend across my life are vapid commitments where there is a Eucharist present. It's a real tragedy to the sacrament. We need to resolve that and right now the quickest most immediate solution that most people can find is seeking older liturgies liturgies that have not changed significantly since Vatican. 2.
yes I think he was wrong on that one. I think that almost no one says, that the tridentine mass should change at all. But the important thing is, that it changes naturally and in good ways.
![[MV] A leap of faith...ความเชื่อใจครั้งสุดท้าย (From "Petrichor the series")](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U1piZH2CNXA/mqdefault.jpg)
Rev. Dr. Kappes is the top living Mariologist and one of the top Christologists as well. He is a master of theology and this interview was fantastic. It's a thrill you had him on! You're the man, Matt!
William, did you ever figure out that Epiphanius was “not” teaching about the bodily Assumption, but since there are more than one “Elijah” in the Bible, he was simply describing his Assumption into Heaven to distinguish him from other Elijah’s in Scripture? Just as he describes John as laying his head on the Lord’s breast to distinguish him from other Johns in Scripture? If not, this is why James White calls you “the king of eisegesis.”
@@BornAgainRN I’m not William but it seems you are just trying to be the Mr. Unpleasant Guy when Albrecht is making a compliment to Fr Kappes, his friend I guess (and a theologian we can and must all appreciate). So your comment gets to the level of being infantile: “if not, then you are (fill in the blanks)”. I’ve addressed myself your claims about Eastern churches allegedly denying the Immaculate Conception in a comment you made on a video on the “Counsel of Trent” channel and I was not answered, so why William (or anyone) should respond to you, specially in a provocative post? Besides, I would blindly affirm William probably knows more of St Epiphanius of Salamis than you. All day. The discussions St Epiphanius propposes about Mary having died or not - calling it her dormition without defining it -, the way this Church Father discusses it would make you fail to even scratch the surface of his theology with this sort of counter-historical and shallow evangelical Protestant mindset, let alone his Mariology. May the Holy Spirit soften your petrified heart.
*EDIT:* I took the word “pastor” out. Thank God you are not a shepherd, as someone so guided by hatred towards the Catholic Church (as American Protestants are commonly indoctrinated to be).
@@masterchief8179 and as I expected, instead of being objective, you just assumed that Albrecht knows what he is talking about. In reality, all he does is take a snippet from Panarion 79 from Epiphanius, taking it completely out of context, & ignores the surrounding passage to discern what Epiphanius is actually trying to convey. That is why Albrecht cannot exegete out of a paper bag, because he is beginning with an "infallible" dogma that was unheard of nearly the first 1/2 millennium, other than from an apocryphal text - that was anathematized by an early pope (without separating the dogma from the work it originated from). So, just as your assumption about me being a pastor is wrong, your assumption that Albrecht's eisegesis of Scripture & ECFs is as well. And that is all the Assumption of Mary is - just an assumption, based neither on Scripture nor "sacred tradition," but on the Magisterium alone. That is why guys like Albrecht are forced to use false Marian typologies, no different than Muslims have done with Jesus to deny His deity. Fr. Kappes is no different. I have listened to him before, and his explanations are substandard at best, reading his theology into Scripture, like Mary's comment about God being her Savior meaning something other than what the Greek ACTUALLY reveals. Yes, it is THAT transparent.
christie is banned on all top catholic channels. plz ask gary michuta william albrecht erick ybarra and michael lofton and they will tell you he is a troll that no one takes seriously. he is also banned by some orthodox. he trolls catholic apologists. you just have to reach out to fradd or one of his mods since this creep is starting to fill the pints shows with his anti catholic hatred. he is so mad that he isnt taken seriously.
@@juancrusader3590 OK, now the truth. A troll is someone who just leaves comments or Internet links, without taking the time to watch videos and then assessing them. This is what Catholics do on my channel. I did not do that on Gary’s and William’s channels. I actually take the time to watch their videos in their entirety, and then make comments. The problem is William doesn’t like that, because he doesn’t know how to address my arguments, so he just calls me and other protestants who do the same “trolls.” In reality, William is the one who is “anti-Protestant“ because he personally insults people who don’t agree with them, including calling me “mentally challenged“ because I disagreed with him in a live chat, which he put me in time out. He also calls people “stupid,“ for the same reason. William had contacted me a couple years ago and wanted to debate me on the canon, which I was going to do, but a family emergency of his came up. It never got rescheduled. During a live TH-cam program he was having with Gary, I had called in to discuss the topic they were talking about, and William hung up on me. He then publicly told his listeners that him and I were going to debate, without checking with me first. When I refused to debate him, this is when he began calling me names, and allowing his so-called “moderators“ to block my comments from the public. This is why you need to get both sides of the story, and not just from the one that you like. Just because William is Catholic that doesn’t mean that he’s right, and I’m wrong because I’m Protestant. Next time get both sides of the story and try to be a little objective. THIS is the REAL reason why I am “banned” on his and Gary’s TH-cam channels, as well as reason and theology. I’m a bit disappointed by Michael Lofton, because he appears to be objective, and he even stated he enjoyed having me on his show, and wanted me to come back on. But William lies so much, and since they are cohosts on reason and theology, unfortunately Michael just believes what he says, probably because he’s Catholic and I’m not.
We have had Fr. Christiaan Kappes on Reason and Theology before. He has been someone we look up to as a theological and intellectual giant. This video here barely scratches the surface of this man's knowledge base. That is not to say anything about his kindness and gentle character. Glad you had him on.
Erick Ybarra
@YAJUN YUAN oh my goodness. Hi buddy!
@YAJUN YUAN I think the better argument is that salvation is not just an individual thing, for God to be Mary's savior is simply because she shares in the salvation and exaltation of her people, their deliverance from their enemies and sharing in the fulfillment of God's eschatological promises (the very kinds of things her song talks about).
Fr Kappes is simply amazing, listening to this podcast now for the third time. Like a good book always something new on the re read. Such a blessing to have him able to communicate with us all.
What you said...
Watched till the end. We really consider Fr. Kappas a good friend to our family. We miss him greatly here in Indianapolis. 🙏 📿
Father Kannes advice about Vespers and Fish Fries is excellent. I love the Liturgy of the Hours which I learned to pray in jail in Wichita KS during the Summer of Mercy for rescuing preborn children
Done scout's rocks my socks! 😁😄😃😀😇🥰 GOD be praised! I have to look at it again with pen and paper! 18 February 2024
This was one of the best shows ever! Fr. Christiaan is an intellectual giant!
No he's not, he's trotting out basic historical falsehoods. For example, he says the Council of Jerusalem is consistent with the Immaculate Conception, but Decree 6 says the Theotokos has Original Sin. Roman Catholic dogma is that the Theotokos did not have original sin. Roman Catholics should not rely on a casual relationship with truth to make their case.
Unless he is a member of a consecrated marriage whether as a consecrated celibate marriage vowed to man in Christ or a male female couple marriage vowed to God, Fr Christiaan Kappes cannot keep or allow in uncertainty of belief the inseparability and qualitative equality of his procreation gift, helper of the family within the family, 'do-ing' "intellect..." thinking and his 'be-ing' having faith in the meeting of the need of identities of his family members for union (cf. Pope St Paul V1's Encyclical Letter: "Of Human Life", Humanae Vitae, 1968, 12: marriage has 'Two inseparable aspects: union and procreation")
@@cyriljorge986 I might have a reading comprehension issue. I’m reading degree 6 of the synod of Jerusalem 1672 and it begins by stating original sin is a real thing, something that gladdens me since it’s a pet peeve of mine when EOs reject it. The decree reads, “We believe the first man created by God to have fallen in Paradise, when, disregarding the Divine commandment, he yielded to the deceitful counsel of the serpent. And as a result hereditary sin flowed to his posterity; so that everyone who is born after the flesh bears this burden, and experiences the fruits of it in this present world.”
Excellent! As to the Blessed Virgin Mary Mother of God, it says: “especially the Mother of God the Word, the ever-virgin Mary, did not experience these [sins], or such like faults.”
Is this not the immaculate conception?
I’m using this translation: www.crivoice.org/creeddositheus.html
Please correct me if I’m wrong, God bless you brother.
Old Irish Proverb : "Tis sad to see the sons of Learning doth in Ever lasting Hell Fire Burning, while him that doth never Learned a Word doth Now in Eternity ever Shining" !
@@oliverclark5604from the beginning of the episode, I believe Fr Kappes said he was a Latin priest first before then becoming a Byzantine priest. If he was a Latin priest, he would almost certainly be celibate. It seems like you're suggesting that he should get married and have children now he's Byzantine? But that would require breaking Apostolic practice of not allowing ordained men to get married. AFAIK, no Apostolic Church allows for this, but only the reverse: married men can be ordained.
Great conversation, gentlemen. Fr. Kappes was my roommate in College Seminary. Great guy then, and very informative now!
I grew up on the TLM and in my passive years in the 60's just went for what my son called the microwave mass. In my revert in the 80's, I sought the old Mass in rare venues but was happy to find one just before Covid19 struck. Now the TLM has not been revived with the NO. Now I attend an SSPX once a month and really value the reverence up across the communion rail including the laity. Now even in the NO I get communion on the tongue from the priest who can't withhold the Host with my tongue sticking out. Very prudent of such priests. I do miss the prayers to Saints and many features in the Mass of the Ages. EWTN tries to be as close. 🙏 😇
Father Kappes is one of my favorite modern day theologians, his great works on the Energies Essence Distinction has helped me greatly come to better theological understandings
Can you recommend a particular source from Fr Kappes on this subject?
@@GuadalupePicasso his academia provides his better works. Some are simply just translations like Gennadios Scholorios’s work against Aquinas. He has really well made works though such as *The Theology of the Divine Essence and Energies in George-Gennadios* and *Palamas among the Scholastics*. There are tons of other great works by him, just check his academia for most of it, but do keep in mind he is a Scotus so that is the opinion you will find but I love that opinion so it’s good for me.
@@slocole1005 thanks!
I’m a big fan of Palamas (I’ve read his Triads, as well as a collection of his homilies), and I never understood the radtrad tendency to be so negative towards him.
@@GuadalupePicasso it’s just an “Aquinas only” view many of them take, since Palamas and Aquinas differ significantly on divine simplicity, but I think Dun Scotus in the West and Palamas in the East both grasped onto a neat mystical theological view that Aquinas never really accepted that I find truly profound
First time hearing this priest! It was EXCELLENT! Learned a lot! Thank you! God bless
Wonderful Stuff!! Fr Kappes an intellectual giant. All we need now is a Catholic Pope
John Harmsen, I believe it is a case of the "intellect" of Fr Dr Kappes of not having its inseparability and qualitative equality kept with having faith.
To 'out occult' "knowing good and evil" (RSV Genesis 3:5) in do-ing gift procreation role as a helper of the family within the family and 'be-ing' in need of union identity as a valid and proper family member of a valid and proper marriage, one must not know one's role and identity but keep or allow in uncertainty of belief the inseparability and qualitative equality of one's role and identity to exercise an absolute power of authorisation of applications of procreation role ensuring and union identity insuring.
If Matt Fradd in another person's post stating Matt Fradd "had him on! in a vernacular sense of fooling him in referring to Dr Kappes, was a valid and proper family member of a valid and proper marriage he exercised an absolute power of authorisation to have Dr Kappes "on" by out occulting the occult as hidden, incest connected as substitute mate, falsehood of Dr Kappes position on the Immaculate Conception.
Dr Kappes' faulty, I believe, both Mariology and Christology is revealed in Matt Fradd consciously or unwittingly drawing out the error in the position of Dr Kappes on the Immaculate Conception of Mary that in error is consistent with I believe false roman catholic role group dogma.
Roman catholic role group thinking about "Conception" is in error up to Pope Francis (who from his election on 13 March 2013 has been prudently correcting this error) in either not understanding or acknowledging the 'qualitative equality' of "procreation and union" in marriage in only asserting they are "inseparable" (Humanae Vitae, 1968, 12).
This thinking is infected by the C13th AD St Thomas Aquinas holding that faith and reason were only inseparable and not also qualitatively equal as required for believing as in uncertainty the keeping or allowing of the inseparability and qualitative equality of thinking reason and having faith.
After economist and statistician as Director of the Oxford University, UK Institute of Agricultural Economics, Colin Clark, simultaneously advised in 1964 but without also example Pope Paul V1's Commission on Population and the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organisation of his finding of "just about paripassu rate of growth of population [cf. marriage] and food supplies in the developing countries [cf. eucharist], Pope St Paul V1 on this reference point through only advice was not able to add "qualitatively equal" with "inseparable" for union and procreation in marriage in HV, 1968, 12. From his election on 13 March 2013, Pope Francis de facto corrected this omission of "qualitatively equal".
Schismatic behavior.
Ah, says a sedevacantist.
Love that he brought up other countries and liturgy. Sometimes in the west we are so focused on ourselves that we forget that the church is universal. I thought I would hate novus ordo but being raised protestant I actually really enjoyed it and felt it was more accessible to those who are not familiar with traditional mass. We are Orthodox converts but are interested in Catholicism.
What a towering intellect and a fascinating presentation. So much to ponder.
Rev Dr Kappes is one among a few Byzantine theologian who truly grasped the broader nuances and delicate intricacies in polemical debate on immaculate conception and filioque. Such a blessing to study under him in the Byzantine Catholic Seminary.
Dun Scotus rocks my socks!
Always listen to you the whole way. So proud of a fellow faithful Aussie being of great service to Catholics all over the world! Keep it up :)
I watched all three hours with my wife over two days. Loved it.
He was at our parish for a while! (Holy Rosary). Awesome priest, so intelligent and gifted.
He is great and we will be talking about his work for a long time. Thanks for having him on!
Learning never ends. Thank you. God Bless!!
Father mentioned Anglo-Catholics towards the end. I never knew the Ordinariate existed before I worked part time for a school in San Antonio, TX. I have to say, the community and the liturgy are BEAUTIFUL at Our Lady of the Atonement. I think their school is the only Catholic school in the San Antonio area with Daily Mass. I have definitely benefitted from the parish and community there
Michael Reyes, I believe that this Ordinariate role group was only able to have all its activities advantageously combined with all the activities of the roman catholic role group on Pope Francis de facto from his election on 13 March 2013 completing, particularly in the cases of alleged embezzlement by Cardinal Angelo Becciu and nine others of procreation gift charity donations by helpers of the family within the family and the "Zan" bill before the Italian Parliament as an unacceptable risk if passed of fraud on union need of identities of family members of valid and proper marriages, Pope St Paul V1's Encyclical Letter: "Of Human Life", Humanae Vitae, 1968, 12: marriage has: "Two inseparable aspects: union and procreation" by adding "and qualitatively equal" with "inseparable".
I attend mass there! I agree with you - beautiful liturgy, church, and community.
Don scotus rocks my socks! I listened to this on a podcast app, but I felt I needed to drop this here.
I hope you have this person on often!
Thank you Matt for bringing Dr. Kappes: so many things raised, great content
Just now running into this while working through the back catalog, but this is one of the best interviews you’ve done!
Matt, Thank you for having Fr. Kappes on. I hope to see him on your show again. 🙏🏽💛
Such an incredible interview!! Farther Kappes is such a great teacher! I learned so much about the immaculate conception and it’s history. Thank you so much for this interview!
This program is the most fascinating one I have heard on the matter , Father Kappes is so knowledge, fascinating and so humble and kind.
I have gone twice over this program. I hope we can have him again. He makes everything fit without conflict and anger. So much beautiful information. I'm an MD. and Third Order Franciscan, this program is a real gift.
Loved this. Yes 3 hours all at once from Ontario Canada
That was educational! What a pleasure to listen to this exchange (particularly Fr. Kappes). Thank you. Duns Scotus rocks my socks off.
So enlightening! Thank you so much!
Wow , I have learned so much. Wow thanks .🙏 I love Mother Mary even more.
I am so happy l found this channel 🙏🏼 May God bless you all that work to spread the eternal Love and word of Jesus and our holy Church 🙏🏼
This is such a wonderful, interesting, and informative talk. Such an amazing priest and theologian. Thank you.
Duns Scotus rocks my socks… listening for three hours is easy when doing chores.
Great conversation and it opened doors I didn’t even know were there.
Agreed and many thanks to both of these men of God!
This discussion is completely on a different level... over my head.
This was a great episode. I learned so much. It is very apparent Dr. Kappes is a MEGA scholar to use that Albrechtism.
Duns Scotus rocks my socks!
Thank you for having this discussion with Fr. Christiaan Kappes. As a Reformed Presbyterian Protestant who is curious about Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy, I found this discussion very informative.
He's trotting out basic historical falsehoods. For example, he says the Council of Jerusalem is consistent with the Immaculate Conception, but Decree 6 says the Theotokos has Original Sin. Roman Catholic dogma is that the Theotokos did not have original sin. Roman Catholics should not rely on a casual relationship with truth to make their case.
@@cyriljorge986What are you talking about? The Council of Jerusalem is found in Acts 15, there is nothing even remotely close to the lie that the Theotokos, the Mother of God and ever-Virgin Mary "has original sin" as you've asserted. Where are you getting your information?
Best interview. Loved Fr. Kappe. Bring him back, please.
I love hearing Fr. Kappes!!! Thank you!
Duns Scotus rocks my socks.
Great chat. I'm reading the book he and William put out now.
This is one of the best podcasts I’ve ever heard!
Love his criticism on the opposition on having the Tridentine Mass in the vernacular. Phenomenal guest.
Really appreciate Fr. Kappes' balanced take on TLM v. NO, especially his point about the NO's success in evangelizing Africa. I also gotta note -- as someone who converted from nondenominational Protestantism (very anti-liturgy) -- that a reverent, well-done NO truly IS an excellent outreach tool to a lot of the more "traditional" Christian denominations in the U.S.
I would really like to see validation of that, because I am to understand that African missions were experiencing growth under Marcel Lefebvre.
@@StoaoftheSouth stats would be helpful, but this seems to track sociologically (Quakers were one of the first denominations to try bring Africans into their churches as part of the same worship service, but failed because the African cultural-religious experience didn't translate well into services with long stretches of silence. This is one reason why Methodism and other forms of Protestantism popular during the Great Awakening evangelized a lot of African communities in America, both pre and post Civil War -- culturally, active worship was more familiar. Or so the thinking goes.)
@@KM-ec2qv KM, the relevant "stats" are those on which the finding by Colin Clark by 1964 are based simultaneously advised by Clark to the Pope St Paul V1's Commission on Population and the UNO Food and Agriculture Organisation of "just about paripassu rate of growth of population [cf. marriage identity in need of union] and food supplies in the developing countries [cf. eucharist as procreation gift role of helpers of the family within the family].
This simultaneous advising of this finding together with Pope Francis from his election on 13 March 2013 completing it by example as well as advice keeping their inseparability and qualitative equality withstands the extreme tensions of positions of roman catholic church role group persons on the Immaculate Conception.
These positions stated from 1858 as infallible dogma are based on the omission of 'qualitatively equal' in St Thomas Aquinas' proof of the inseparability of faith and reason in his ignorance of the qualitatively equal as well as inseparable nature of the male's procreation gift role in conception and the female's union need in her part in conception of identities of her valid and proper family members as of a valid and proper marriage.
i have your book and what an amazing read, i love the book. The Secret History of Transubstantiation ! Fr. Christiaan Kappes
Dr. Kappes' research of liturgical reform and sensitivity towards the Eastern and Western rites confirmed my suspicions about incremental reforms over time.
@YAJUN YUAN both. Abuses have been corrected before.
Duns Scotus rocks my socks. It was an honor to meet Fr Kappes at a Come and See event that the Byzantine Catholic Seminary hosted. Would love to study under him one day, God willing
This is an excellent conversation.
Duns Scotus rock my socks! Thank you for the quality of content you steadily bring to the table for us to feast on.
Father KAPPAS as well as Duns SCOTUS rocks my socks ❤
I'm pretty late, but Duns Scotus rocks my socks! My parish had Fr. Kappes off and on for a couple of years, he's a wonderful priest and this was a great conversation. I'm off to watch the more recent discussion with him and William Albrecht
Don scotus rocks my socks! Fantastic interview! Appreciate the encouragement to take up Liturgy of the Hours more. It’s beautiful and I love any chance I get to pray it communally.
Thank you so much for this dialogue with Fr. Kappes. It is most interesting.
Finally got to visit in person with him shortly before this interview. He is a phenomenal scholar with great insights and similar perspectives after reviewing my initial draft of the forthcoming book "Reclaiming our Inheritance after Vatican II" (in progress as a co-published work with Dr Matthew Minerd on the magisterial foundations of principles of liturgical reform and organic development, from an eastern perspective. Hopefully Matthew and I can get it to press before the end of 2023!).
This is the best podcast on our Church's evolution. Finally, non-combative and intellectual. I really hope that the extreme fundamentalists against the Pope will understand.
Excellent discussion. Bring him back again!
This is awesome. Thank you for dealing with some of those hairy questions. I am newly an Eastern Catholic (Orthodox for many years) and have had many Latin Catholics roll their eyes at the Eastern view and always refer to Aquinas. It can be infuriating. It seems the Franciscan view lines up better with the East. Very informative.
Saint Bonaventure, pray for us!
It’s so strange many people are saying the TLM people are very snarky and prestigious but I have been going for years now and have not witnessed it even once
@@roseg1333 I didn't reference TLM, just Latin-rite Catholics.
@@paulthehanna I’m currently a catechumen at an Orthodox Church but keep trying to decide whether I want to go through with it or go Catholic instead, would you mind if I asked for the reason/reasons you decided to convert?
@@michaelvigil3436 send me a PM
I’m pretty sure that this priest is the only person who pronounces both “schism” and “Constantine” such as he does.
Great interview!
I was taught to say it that way in the 90’s at University of Dallas in a masters theology program.
SCOTUS rocks my socks! Watched to the end! WOW learned so much! Thank you!
Duns Scotus rocks my socks! Have a great month off the internet!
Just finished the whole session- will have to re-listen and take notes!! Very interesting!
Great guest and topics
Duns Scottus rocks my world! (I'm not wearing socks). Thanks for this great interview I ended up watching all 3h, this was so good . God bless you!
Woke up to the break music playing.. That beat is fire.
I'm going to come back to this because it's very interesting but very long. I love these discussions.
travisinsiam, I hope this material that I offer you as follows gives you both eucharistic procreation gift of food and marriage need of union as population "food for thought" as inseparable and qualitatively equal.
To 'out occult' "knowing good and evil" (RSV Genesis 3:5) in do-ing gift procreation role as a helper of the family within the family and 'be-ing' in need of union identity as a valid and proper family member of a valid and proper marriage, one must not know one's role and identity but keep or allow in uncertainty of belief the inseparability and qualitative equality of one's role and identity to exercise an absolute power of authorisation of applications of procreation role ensuring and union identity insuring.
If Matt Fradd in another person's post stating Matt Fradd "had him on! in a vernacular sense of fooling him in referring to Dr Kappes, was a valid and proper family member of a valid and proper marriage he exercised an absolute power of authorisation to have Dr Kappes "on" by out occulting the occult as hidden, incest connected as substitute mate, falsehood of Dr Kappes position on the Immaculate Conception.
Dr Kappes' faulty, I believe, both Mariology and Christology is revealed in Matt Fradd consciously or unwittingly drawing out the error in the position of Dr Kappes on the Immaculate Conception of Mary that in error is consistent with I believe false roman catholic role group dogma.
Roman catholic role group thinking about "Conception" is in error up to Pope Francis (who from his election on 13 March 2013 has been prudently correcting this error) in either not understanding or acknowledging the 'qualitative equality' of "procreation and union" in marriage in only asserting they are "inseparable" (Humanae Vitae, 1968, 12).
This thinking is infected by the C13th AD St Thomas Aquinas holding that faith and reason were only inseparable and not also qualitatively equal as required for believing as in uncertainty the keeping or allowing of the inseparability and qualitative equality of thinking reason and having faith.
After economist and statistician as Director of the Oxford University, UK Institute of Agricultural Economics, Colin Clark, simultaneously advised in 1964 but without also example Pope Paul V1's Commission on Population and the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organisation of his finding of:
"... just about paripassu rate of growth of population [cf. marriage] and food supplies in the developing countries [cf. eucharist]",
Pope St Paul V1 on this reference point through only advice was not able to add "qualitatively equal" with "inseparable" for union and procreation in marriage in HV, 1968, 12.
From his election on 13 March 2013, Pope Francis in not knowing his role and identity but in uncertainty believing in their inseparability and qualitative equality de facto corrected this omission of "qualitatively equal" by exercise of his absolute power of authorisation in the out-occulting of the occult evil of this omission by his simultaneous authorisations on or about 10 June 2021 of applications of observation measurement terms by his Vatican state Secretariat of State in the cases of alleged embezzlement by Cardinal Angelo Becciu and nine others of procreation role gift charity donations by helpers of the family within the family (presently on indictments before Pope Francis' Vatican state civil court) and of alleged unacceptable risk of fraud on need of union of identities in valid and proper marriage in the case of the "Zan" anti-homophobia bill before the Italian Parliament (defeated in early November 2021).
Don Scotus rocks my socks, from a Ukrainian Catholic listener who has been following Fr. Kappes research
Great episode. This answered so many questions. Thanks
Also, Duns Scotus rocks my socks.
Excellence from Dr. kappes
And of course Duns Scotus rocks my socks
wow Fr Kappes is extremely knowledgeable, very enjoyable to listen to.
Really appreciate this discussion..Very informative and insightful.
Duns Scotus rock my socks!
Rich and very informative content! I loved it.
Duns Scotus rocks my socks. Great interview, love Fr Kappes's amazing intellect as well as his approach and manner.
Duns Scotus rocks my socks!!! But I guess I cheated, because I just heard this great interview while I was driving doing my job in South Texas over the podcast, not TH-cam… it was a great listening. And I was not on the live interview, but nevertheless, I learned a lot. Thank you Matt!
Fr. Kappes is great and based.
Don SCOTUS rocks my socks, I will experience this discussion again soon. The background information is a treasure chest.
Fr Kappes - riveting.
Duns Scotus rock my socks either!
Thank you very much for having rev Kappes! I wish he were out professor here in Russia, Saint Petersburg. Especially with our seminary being bi-ritual in practice though having not a balanced curriculum for both the Easterners and the Scotus-enjoyers!
I Appreciate this discussion very much as I believe the ancient liturgical disciplines of both the east and the west have great value and should be preserved and encouraged.
As a convert to Catholicism in 2010 from a Southern Baptist tradition, I want to join the Anglican Ordinariate, because I see it as the perfect preservation of the TLM translated into Elizabethan English. Unfortunately, the hierarchy under Francis wants to force it into the Novus Ordo.
Great show, D.S. socks and all! Very informative and edifying!
Duns Sotus rocks my socks! 😅 This was a wonderful conversation, thank you!
I had a 12 year old child say Christ was a real presence to him. A child in utero knows God. IAMWHOIAM .
This video was amazing.
This was a great interview.
Great food for thought in this World fr.
Excellent discussion. Thank you both
What a great idea! I have many Bible versions,and on several I tab the books. But I never thought of tabbing themes for prayers. I bought the compact rose gold large print NLT.a version Thanks. I don’t have. I am excited to put a prayer Bible together!
Very interesting
Duns Scotus rocks my socks, wonderful program today
listening to this, it gets clear how the reformation was inevitable.
excellent discussion!
35:00
The rite of communion inside mass that we know at the TLM is not included in the 1570 Pius V edition of the Missal, this is true. *But it is included explicitly in the Clement VIII edition, which was authorized in 1604.*
This is the edition that introduced a numerical ranking of feasts (1st class, 2nd class, etc.), and it was the first to implement the newly standardized Sixto-Clementine Vulgate for the lessons. The slightly longer rubrical texts of this Clementine Missal (1604) were retained nearly identical up until 1962. When we speak of the Tridentine rubrics, we're really talking about this version, and this version tells us exactly what to do at Communion inside mass.
The Roman Ritual's first Tridentine Edition, published under Paul V in 1614, gives the same instruction--unlike what Father says, it DOES say what to do for Communion inside mass (it more or less says do exactly the same as communion outside mass--this is 1614, 300 years before Pius X). The first Tridentine Roman Pontifical (1595), interestingly, mentions the confiteor, misereatur, and indulgentiuam, but omits a mention of Ecce Agnus Dei. But, in the appendix, which was added in 1859 under Benedict XIV, giving the rites of ordination explicitly in the singular form instead of the plural, Ecce Agnus Dei is included. The Memoriale Rituum (1724), which describes ceremonies for solemn rites lacking a deacon and subdeacon, includes Ecce Agnus Dei.
This obviously has nothing to do with the promotion of frequent communion by Pius X 300 years later the 1604 missal. It is NOT true that "nobody knew how to do Communion inside mass" until Pius X. All of these books I just mentioned give the possibility and the method.
The initial Pontifical alone suggests that Ecce Agnus Dei was not yet universal, but within two decades, it was universal. Ecce Agnus Dei +Domine non sum dignus is certainly part of the larger Tridentine reform, which took about 50 years to complete. What Father has called attention to is an interesting tidbit regarding certain transitional elements during the process of the reform. It does not show that a well-beloved part of the TLM is new--1604 is not new.
It is also the 1604 edition that changes where "Haec quotiescumque" after the consecration of the chalice is recited from while elevating to while genuflecting. Yet it is more likely this is not a change at all, but a case where the rubrics were ambiguous and the newer edition made it clear to conform with what priests were actually doing. The Roman Missal of 1474, 100 years earlier, includes haec quotiescumque with the words of consecration, does not mention elevations or genuflections at all, even though we know by that point there were elevations and two genuflections. The rubrics in the Missal are not the liturgy--the liturgy is what the priests actually do. Sometimes the rubrics fail to accurately describe the rite, as in the initial version of the Tridentine missal. The 1501 edition of the Roman Missal gives the "correct" version, which 1570 failed to carefully describe, and which the 1604 version "restores": the priest recites up until "peccatorum," genuflects while reciting "haec quotiescumque..." and then elevates the chalice.
Father is trying to argue for vernacular in the TLM, but this is not a good argument for it. Vernacular would be a massive change; the things he mentioned were either miniscule changes or not changes at all.
This interview hit me right in the feels. It is so weird seeing some of these people being interviewed on this channel with ties to Indianapolis where I have very strong ties myself to. I absolutely love the Byzantine Rite and am having some hardship with it right now because apparently I am too Orthodox despite literally never being Orthodox, it was just how I was formed in the Byzantine Rite. Now I am told it is all wrong by another BR priest.
Duns Scotus rocks my socks :). Great conversation.
Father kappes is a legend.
Duns Scotus rocks my socks and so did Fr.Kappes.
This rocked Mt socks and I am 86
Excellent interview!
Awesome video. Definitely need to check out eastern Christianity more. (Also, Duns Scotus rocks my socks.)
I really appreciate what this guy is saying about the progression of the liturgy across time.
I do worry that he is debating a position that the majority of people seeking more Orthodox liturgy are not advocating for.
We are not advocating for a completely static church.
We are advocating against the loss of like a liturgical significance in common practice by even good and well-meaning and believing and committed clergy and laity.
Finding a way to make the novus ordo a spiritually significant liturgy is challenging.
And it's rare that I have ever experienced it, meanwhile stumble into almost any Latin Mass and you will be humbled. It's amazing that you can not speak Latin as I do not and cannot escape the significance of that. Liturgy.
Meanwhile, I can speak English and most English novus ordo masses I attend across my life are vapid commitments where there is a Eucharist present. It's a real tragedy to the sacrament.
We need to resolve that and right now the quickest most immediate solution that most people can find is seeking older liturgies liturgies that have not changed significantly since Vatican. 2.
yes I think he was wrong on that one. I think that almost no one says, that the tridentine mass should change at all. But the important thing is, that it changes naturally and in good ways.
It was long, but well worth my time!